Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

Why? I sort of justified a second referendum in my mind a couple of months ago. But Merkel's trying to shoe in a German for Juncker's job stopped all that. We had a Referendum; 52% voted Leave on a first past the post basis.

For Andrew, I say this. I have nothing against Germany nor France. The former is a successful country to which I travel often. I am nearly bilingual English/German. But from a political point of view, we have failed to curtail their government's hegemonic approach to affairs and I want out of the consequences.

As regards France, a wonderful country of rich traditions, countryside, food and great people. But again, their government takes a dishonest approach to the principles of the EU as I have explained. They are also trying to co-run the EU with Germany. I want no part o f that either.

None of you Remainers directly address these matters but instead try to insult me.

OLD BOY

30-09-2018 17:36

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35964983)

Just make it leave or stay.

We've already answered that question. If we were to have another referendum (which we won't) the question should be acceptance or rejection of the eventual deal with the EU, with the clear understanding that rejection of the deal will mean WTO.

The remainers had better be careful what they wish for, because the indications are that the majority are most likely to go for WTO rules. Given this would be anathema to the remainers, and that they would prefer a deal with the EU rather than the so-called 'cliff edge' scenario, I would have thought a second referendum is the last thing they'd want.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35964985)

Probably, Seph, because these are not the top issues on people's minds when they say they want to leave.

I think most are against France's Common Agricultural Policy, but the main issues are free movement, control of our borders and freedom to make our own laws.

To be honest, you are the only person I have come across as citing Germany hegemony.

Sephiroth

30-09-2018 18:03

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35964986)

<SNIP>
.

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

Probably, Seph, because these are not the top issues on people's minds when they say they want to leave.

I think most are against France's Common Agricultural Policy, but the main issues are free movement, control of our borders and freedom to make our own laws.

To be honest, you are the only person I have come across as citing Germany hegemony.

Why do you think I'm trying to open the eyes of the Remainers on that matter?

Angua

30-09-2018 18:50

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35964990)

Why do you think I'm trying to open the eyes of the Remainers on that matter?

When even the leave side have no interest in your hegemony theory, perhaps you might just be a stuck record that people are getting bored with.

OLD BOY

30-09-2018 18:58

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35964990)

Why do you think I'm trying to open the eyes of the Remainers on that matter?

I don't think that making references to 'German hegemony' really cuts the ice, Seph.

I doubt that most of them who might be influenced by your concerns would even know what 'hegemony' was. I don't think this is going to run unless you express yourself in terms that more people will understand.

'Dominance' would be better understood, particularly if accompanied by stark examples of this.

However, I think most people are aware that Germany has the biggest economy in the EU, so the fact that they dominate should not really come as a great surprise to most.

Sephiroth

30-09-2018 19:23

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35964996)

When even the leave side have no interest in your hegemony theory, perhaps you might just be a stuck record that people are getting bored with.

See what you've done, OB - they're now trying to divide us.

Those who don't know what hegemony is have access to a dictionary. Those who stick their heads in the sand and ignore what's going on with Germany and France and forget what Germany did to Greece need to come out and smell the coffee.

Anyway, we're leaving the EU.

Angua

30-09-2018 20:27

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35964998)

I don't think that making references to 'German hegemony' really cuts the ice, Seph.

I doubt that most of them who might be influenced by your concerns would even know what 'hegemony' was. I don't think this is going to run unless you express yourself in terms that more people will understand.

'Dominance' would be better understood, particularly if accompanied by stark examples of this.

However, I think most people are aware that Germany has the biggest economy in the EU, so the fact that they dominate should not really come as a great surprise to most.

Exactly. It almost seems like a fear of success, which seems to be a particularly English failing.

Sephiroth

30-09-2018 20:45

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35965003)

Exactly. It almost seems like a fear of success, which seems to be a particularly English failing.

I've explained what it is. Hegemony - trying to run and dictate to the EU countries. Why would I fear Germany's success? I don't; I fear the domination they seek through that success.

Angua

30-09-2018 21:00

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35965004)

I've explained what it is. Hegemony - trying to run and dictate to the EU countries. Why would I fear Germany's success? I don't; I fear the domination they seek through that success.

Trouble is, they have their own problems, so getting obsessed with their taking over the EU is somewhat narrow in focus.

Sephiroth

30-09-2018 21:21

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua (Post 35965005)

Trouble is, they have their own problems, so getting obsessed with their taking over the EU is somewhat narrow in focus.

We all have our problems and I'm not concerned with Germany's problems; they have little bearing on their manipulation or domination of the EU.

Mr K	30-09-2018 22:34

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35965006)

We all have our problems and I'm not concerned with Germany's problems; they have little bearing on their manipulation or domination of the EU.

Take a deep breath and stand back mate. The Fourth Reich isn't coming.... We have more to fear from extremists in our own country. The Germans are nice people, really, try talking to a few. Their concerns about the EU are very similar to ours, however they aren't bonkers.

Maggy

30-09-2018 22:49

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebri...hnson-13328777

Quote:

Patrick Kielty launched an impassioned late night rant against Boris Johnson on Friday, schooling him on why Brexit could signal not just the end for Northern Ireland, but also for the UK as we know it.

Dave42

30-09-2018 23:03

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35965010)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebri...hnson-13328777

well done Patrick :clap::clap::clap: lets see what Pinocchio Boris lies about next

Boris will NEVER be Prime Minister: Hammond mocks Johnson's plummy voice and failure to grasp detail - and claims his biggest achievement is 'Boris Bikes', in searing attack

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-Hammond.html

Chris

30-09-2018 23:20

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35964915)

The public don't want chlorinated chicken or hormone mass produced beef. Quality not quantity. Mind you, if they had any sense, they wouldn't touch meat at all or vote for Brexit ;)

Im curious whether you have a credible source for this claim or if it’s just the usual remainer wishful thinking? I’m willing to bet “the public” is ambivalent at most, and most of those who actively mistrust chlorine washing are under the misapprehension that it’s unsafe.

Did you realise that the EU accepts that the process is safe Mr K?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35964923)

Your above comments bear no relevance whatsoever to my post! :confused:
I said "The US has different food standards than Europe. Importing their food would decimate our farming sector. The chlorinated chicken is an example of our divergence in standards."

It would only decimate our farming sector if we continued to ban our own farmers from using safe, efficient means of ensuring chicken is germ-free. Freedom from blatant protectionism is one of the principal reasons why leaving the EU -and being outside the single market- is such a good idea. If our farmers want to sell to the EU then naturally they will have to observe the regulations of that market, but anything they sell within the UK must only match the rules set for the UK, by our parliament. There’s no reason why safe, germ- fee chlorine washed chicken can’t be legally produced here after Brexit. It will be entirely our own decision.

OLD BOY

01-10-2018 07:31

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35964913)

I think you need to go and read up on chlorinated chicken before making pronouncements like this.

Even the EU doesn’t think chlorine-washing chicken is chemically harmful to humans, though if you listen to the remainer hysteria on this point you’d be forgiven for thinking otherwise. Their objection is either simple protectionism, or else it’s because they genuinely believe their own claim that lessening protective measures in the factory is a good idea because it forces farmers to be more careful. I know which I think is more likely but YMMV. Whatever the truth, chlorinated chicken carcasses typically have a prevalence of 2% salmonella while chickens treated the EU way have 15-20%. If raw chicken is carelessly handled in the home environment, guess which one is more likely to spread infection: chlorine-washed, or water-washed?

We really have to get away from the idea that EU regulations are automatically better than American ones.

Source

Excellent point. I thought I'd repeat it here as some appear to have forgotten it.

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