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-   -   Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

OLD BOY 28-06-2021 20:28
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084694)
Why should I? Remainers like you need reminding as to who the enemy is. We dared to leave.
I think we need to remind Macron and Merkel who won the war!:D:rofl:

Sephiroth 28-06-2021 21:03
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
He keeps a stock of this sort of stuff with which to insult people when he feels like it.

Hugh 28-06-2021 22:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36084703)
I think we need to remind Macron and Merkel who won the war!:D:rofl:
Not you, as you weren’t alive then… ;)

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084719)
He keeps a stock of this sort of stuff with which to insult people when he feels like it.
I’m not the one ranting and raving…

Sephiroth 28-06-2021 22:33
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36084730)
Not you, as you weren’t alive then… ;)

---------- Post added at 22:08 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------

I’m not the one ranting and raving…
Nor am I. It suits Hugh to describe my emphatic truths as "ranting and raving" just so that he can be contrary.

1andrew1 28-06-2021 22:52
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Lorry driver shortage: UK government and retailers in emergency talks

Defra looks for solutions as Covid and Brexit problems threaten to leave gaps on supermarket shelves

The UK government has held emergency talks with retailers, logistics groups and wholesalers as a shortage of lorry drivers threatens to leave gaps on supermarket shelves...

Industry chiefs have warned the UK is facing a summer of food shortages similar to a series of “rolling power cuts” because of a loss of up to 100,000 lorry drivers as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic and Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...s-covid-brexit[/quote]

Hugh 29-06-2021 09:55
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084684)
One or two people here round on me for daring to suggest that the EU (not the people) is our enemy.

Just imagine Macron: That man is so far up himself (remember his early threat - no fish, no deal?) and he has always been forward in saying there must be consequences for leaving the EU. He is out to punish the UK and no sane person who is following all of this would say otherwise.

Then there's Merkel; she plays it more cannily - but if she can slap one on the UK, sje will. After all, British tourists don't exactly flock to Germany so it doesn't hurt her by recommending a ban on UK visitors. It may hurt her EU colleagues and quite possibly the ban won't happen. But, if she can kick the UK, she will - and gets it badly wrong with the Covid jabs and the confusion se has sewn.

Next there's the VdL person. Again, no sane person, even among the Remainers on the forum, could think of her as having any goodwill to the UK unless it bows to the EU. She is the arch-enemy.

Remainer bleating that the EU is our biggest export market does not make them less of an enemy; it simply puts more cards into their hands to play against us.

The UK must now plough ahead, open up new markets, ban their fisherman after the 5 years are up, support our people in NI if the EU won't lighten up on their rules interpretation.

And when that perfidious, yes perfidious, Varadkartakes his turn as Taoiseach, and if he hasn't softened, the UK must take none of his shit and teach him a lesson where it hurts by taking as little produce from the Republic as possible.

They are, at least for now, the enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084738)
Nor am I. It suits Hugh to describe my emphatic truths as "ranting and raving" just so that he can be contrary.
I am sure that in the members bar of the Sir Bufton Tufton Memorial Society* (Winnersh Triangle Branch, Honorary Life President Sir John Deadwood) this sort of diatribe is seen as normal everyday conversation, but in the real world, not so much… ;)

*club motto - "it was better in the old days, when Johnny Foreigner knew his place… "

Sephiroth 29-06-2021 10:11
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36084758)
I am sure that in the members bar of the Sir Bufton Tufton Memorial Society* (Winnersh Triangle Branch, Honorary Life President Sir John Deadwood) this sort of diatribe is seen as normal everyday conversation, but in the real world, not so much… ;)

*club motto - "it was better in the old days, when Johnny Foreigner knew his place… "
I am describing the real world in the Brexit context. And yes, it needs diatribe. You attack the messenger (that's what you like to do); I attack the perfidious EU.

1andrew1 29-06-2021 10:34
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084761)
I am describing the real world in the Brexit context. And yes, it needs diatribe. You attack the messenger (that's what you like to do); I attack the perfidious EU.
Unfortunately, the facts don't favour your argument. It is the British government that does not want to honour its agreements with the EU and is asking for an extension.

Boris Johnson seems to be intent on resurrecting the Perfidious Albion branding that we shook off a long time ago.

Sephiroth 29-06-2021 11:05
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36084763)
Unfortunately, the facts don't favour your argument. It is the British government that does not want to honour its agreements with the EU and is asking for an extension.

Boris Johnson seems to be intent on resurrecting the Perfidious Albion branding that we shook off a long time ago.
You know my view on Boris and that his word is no good.
I do understand the argument about abiding by what the UK signed.
But:

1/
It's the Remainers who always put the abiding matter on the table;

2/
It's the Remainers who never concede that the rigorous, inflexible implementation by the EU of the NI Protocol is at the heart of the problem.

That said, the core of the heart of the problem lies in the stupidity of signing the Withdrawal Agreement as was. Being where we are now, the EU must recognise that stability in NI is now threatened and they need to relax enforcement of GB towards NI trade restrictions.

The extension is merely providing time for further negotiations and for the stupid marching season to pass. That is a waste of time unless the EU makes concessions. But they don't make concessions without extracting blood from the stone. So expect this to come back to the headlines in September.

A completely clean break is what should have happened and the folly of "our friends in Europe" is now completely clear. Even to you.

1andrew1 29-06-2021 11:18
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36084764)
You know my view on Boris and that his word is no good.
I do understand the argument about abiding by what the UK signed.
But:

1/
It's the Remainers who always put the abiding matter on the table;

2/
It's the Remainers who never concede that the rigorous, inflexible implementation by the EU of the NI Protocol is at the heart of the problem.

That said, the core of the heart of the problem lies in the stupidity of signing the Withdrawal Agreement as was. Being where we are now, the EU must recognise that stability in NI is now threatened and they need to relax enforcement of GB towards NI trade restrictions.

The extension is merely providing time for further negotiations and for the stupid marching season to pass. That is a waste of time unless the EU makes concessions. But they don't make concessions without extracting blood from the stone. So expect this to come back to the headlines in September.

A completely clean break is what should have happened and the folly of "our friends in Europe" is now completely clear. Even to you.
Boris does owe a degree of responsibility. But I think it's optimistic to think that Brexit was ever going to turn out well. And a clean break would have been impossible whilst Northern Ireland was part of the UK and the Republic part of the EU. That's the dream of keyboard warriors and nothing seriously entertained by any British Prime Minister, even one not known for his love of detail!

What lots of your rhetoric is masking is what some of us went around in circles with back in 2016 - we're a large country but we're negotiating with far larger blocs and countries. Size matters in negotiations and smaller entities do get bossed around. That's why I came to the same conclusion as Thatcher and Churchill - it's better to be in the tent pissing out than outside it getting wet.

jonbxx 29-06-2021 11:44
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36084767)
What lots of your rhetoric is masking is what some of us went around in circles with back in 2016 - we're a large country but we're negotiating with far larger blocs and countries. Size matters in negotiations and smaller entities do get bossed around. That's why I came to the same conclusion as Thatcher and Churchill - it's better to be in the tent pissing out than outside it getting wet.
It does feel sometimes that a lot of people learnt nothing from the Suez Crisis - the last nail in the coffin of the British Empire. It's an argument that the creation of the EEC and EU was a direct reaction to the US ruffling the UK and Frances' hair and reminding us that we weren't the big boys any more

Sephiroth 29-06-2021 12:21
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36084770)
It does feel sometimes that a lot of people learnt nothing from the Suez Crisis - the last nail in the coffin of the British Empire. It's an argument that the creation of the EEC and EU was a direct reaction to the US ruffling the UK and Frances' hair and reminding us that we weren't the big boys any more
Though, do remember that Suez was a joint UK/French thing, in the context of an existentialist threat by war on Israel.

That aside, the EEC was was a very good thing. The EU is a very bad thing.

Carth 29-06-2021 13:08
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Yeah the EEC worked OK, the monster it evolved into doesn't though

1andrew1 29-06-2021 13:17
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36084776)
Yeah the EEC worked OK, the monster it evolved into doesn't though
They've got less debt than us and Germany sells four times as much to China as we do. Something seems to be working ok for them.

Sephiroth 29-06-2021 13:36
Re: Britain outside the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36084778)
They've got less debt than us and Germany sells four times as much to China as we do. Something seems to be working ok for them.
You miss the point, Andrew. In fact, two points.

1/
The EU, perhaps only for the most part, wants to federalise. The UK people don't want that - certainly 52%. Would you have wanted to be part of a federal Europe?

2/
The whole thing is rigged for Germany. I've explained several time the way that Germany engineered the DM to Euro exchange rate. Their overarching policy is economic domination. Guess what a federal Europe dominated by Germany means? Would you have wanted that?


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