Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Didn't read that in to his comment ,should have looked more closely. After all was Richard :D

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Yep, totally agree with that.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

BT Sports free to all today ( VM Channel 100) for the FA Vase, and FA Trophy finals.
https://www.thenonleaguefootballpape...port-decision/

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

One more thing to avoid:rolleyes:

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

What else are you doing? darning some socks ? ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Not on 100 here - but is free on Sky. Also seen a comment that it was not made free on BTtv.

Already release said free to all platforms - https://www.bt.com/sport/football/fe...ch-on-bt-sport

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Just watched the match on BT,a good match. They said before the match it was free to watch accross all platforms so one would assume it included BT TV platform too.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I'mPaint drying would be more entertaining for me .fgs a nil nil draw can be a great game ,come on:erm:

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

They have figured out a way and are working on it. That’s my understanding from reports I have read.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Source?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Here we go again…

btw, the original article was from September 2018 - doesn’t appear to have been much visible progress since then.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Ok, sorry, I misremembered. No need to rub it in. :td:

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The post I quoted was in reply to a previous "misremembering"… ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

One up to you then Hugh. :rolleyes:

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Not really - it’s just that I think it’s relevant to point out you keep reposting the same misinformation in support of your proposition, even when it’s been previously debunked.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Premier League clubs set to agree new £5billion “rollover” TV deal.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/footb...ee-24094612?1=

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

well it good it didn't cost more Den

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

A shame given the deep pockets streamers out there desperate for the rights.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Yeah but would the streamers get the viewing figures Sky and BT get? And picture quality is awful,going by Amazon Primes efforts that I've seen.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

:D

Apologies I should have included an emoji with my previous post. I totally agree with you.

Others on the forum think there’s some benevolent capitalists out there ready to spend billions on the rights to “blow Sky/BT out the water” and sell it to everyone for a tenner a month.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Don't wind OB up.

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------


Have to agree

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The Financial Times are reporting clubs have voted and agreed to the proposed new deal which includes the EFL receiving more funds, a requirement set out by the government. Sorry this might be a paid link:

https://www.ft.com/content/3d7d49e1-...7-1df5be0a0aa0

New TV deal could be announced as early as tomorrow!

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Very true, not only that, streaming is abysmal, time-wise, as it can be up to a minute behind real-time.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

You were saying....:D

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

So if BT Sport sell up i wonder if amazon will snatch it up or disney considering disney already have worked with BT sport over licensing ESPN

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

These were my thoughts on seven potential buyers: https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...ostcount=10380

If a deal is done, I reckon DAZN or Disney are most likely.

Others felt Sky should not be ruled out as it would be keen to take out a competitor. Hoever, I think the Premier League could prevent this by making sure Sky was aware that it would re-auction BT's rights if that situation arose, which rights owners are able to do if the ownership of the broadcaster changes. (Change of control clause.)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Not sure they’d be keen to anger their best customer with the deepest pockets. ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I’m glad you said that and not me! You seem to have avoided the hostile response I would have received for coming even close to such a suggestion!

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Do we really think a streaming only channel will be keen to take on football rights in the UK without a standard channel on Sky/Virgin/BT? Even for a tenner that streaming channel with spanish/italian football completely collapsed within 6 months or so?

Amazon works because its on most smart tvs, firesticks, tv boxes, is a well known brand etc.

"Oh btw the new EPL stuff is on DAZN"
"DAZN....what the heck is DAZN"
"its streaming service for football?"
"how do i get it....i just want to watch the football?"
"well on your laptop you can cast from your pc/laptop or smartphone to a google chromebox for example!"
"what?"
"or a ps4/x box app which has just been released"
"what....."
"its on apple tv"
"oh forget it!!"

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

If I were making these decisions at DAZN, and given where we are at the moment with the transition to IPTV, I would stream it as well as having at least a 'pop up' pay-tv channel to maximise revenue.

It's different for Amazon because having the footie on Prime only helps to increase revenue for their retail operation as well.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

It was all done via rollover so staying the same

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Nobody is hostile on the basis of who said it.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I think Amazon have a satellite channel for showing matches in pubs don't they?

Agreed that a broadcaster with EPL rights needs a linear channel or two. DAZN has done this in other countries but next auction now in a couple of years' time.

With DAZN acquiring UK rights to Matchrrom Boxing, it will be interesting to see how they will grow their footprint across devices and platforms.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

That’s not my experience on this forum.

As the Premiership bids are being rolled over this time around due to Covid, I guess we can only speculate on what might have been.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

We can also speculate on the future direction of BT Sport too. ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

They’re only rolled over by consent - not “because of Covid”.

If the EPL felt they could extract better value for their shareholders (clubs) by running an auction then they would have done so.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

No - they do a deal with Premier Sport (I think) for capacity.

Satellite viewers loose access to Premier Sports at such times.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

You are mistaken.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/engl...oiding-auction

[EXTRACT]

The league said it had received government approval to renew its broadcast rights with existing partners instead of holding a competitive auction due to the financial impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

You are, as ever, selectively quoting.

They obviously need Government permission to award the rights without putting them out to tender due to competition concerns.

That is not to say that they could not have run an auction if they sincerely believed that was the best way to maximise revenue.

Clearly they did not believe this would have extracted greatest value for their shareholders.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Personally I'm more than happy they're staying with BT and Sky with Amazon getting a handful of games.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Why do you keep arguing about nothing? It was the result of the pandemic. End of.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

It appears to have been both...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57098432

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Far from the end of Old Boy.

They believe the rights have peaked. Rational capitalists have chosen to not conduct a blind auction and instead have negotiated with the existing parties to continue on the existing terms.

They’d be failing in their duties to the member clubs to not seek to maximise the value of the rights. If there was a “deep pockets” streamer out there of any credible standing we would have seen an auction. We have not.

For competition reasons they could not have done this without Covid. But that is not to say Covid forced their hand - it offered them a convenient out.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Does the following not suggest that Covid did indeed force their hand?

Letter to A Conant, DCMS, 18 March 2021.
Letter to A Conant, DCMS, 28 March 2021.
Letter to Richard Masters, Premier League, 12 May 2021.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

jfman, you are convincing no-one. The measures that have been taken to avoid the competitive bids would not have happened without the COVID crisis.

Just stop arguing, for God’s sake. You are convincing no-one.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

It clearly says they want certainty over the value of the rights. That implies there is considerable uncertainty.

At no point does it say that, owing to the pandemic, it would not be possible to conduct a blind auction.

Which brings us back to the last round where Sky correctly determined the value of the rights had fallen - and there was no deep pockets streamer waiting in the wings. A position that cost Richard Scudamore his job.

The fact they made this application indicates they, as rational capitalists, would rather stick rather than twist. The fluff about the security of the pyramid is a red herring - we already know how six of the twenty clubs feel about the pyramid.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Extract from the letter dated 18 March in Huxie’s links:

The football pyramid has suffered significant financial losses at every level as a result of COVID 19 with existential challenges faced by many clubs and stakeholders. Government has recognised this and sought to address these losses as far as possible, through for example, support for the National League System and women’s football. Government also has a major role to play in facilitating the return of supporters, the absolute foundation for a strong return for all next season. However, you have asked, and we have agreed, that professional football should, where possible, finance its own survival [/B]and recovery. In line with the Government’s request, the Premier League has taken significant steps to support the wider football family, fulfilling our commitment made to the Secretary of State last summer. We have already provided up to £65 million in rescue funding to English Football League (EFL) clubs during the 2020/21 season, alongside additional amount funding for the National League system and the women’s game. Our solidarity and good causes programmes are without financial equal in sport, and to my knowledge, our levels of commitment to the rest of the football pyramid are not matched by any equivalent action taken in any other sector.

All clubs and leagues have suffered from the absence of supporters and matchday revenue, and those at the top end of the pyramid, including the Premier League, have also had to deal with very significant reductions in broadcast and commercial revenue. By the end of the current 2020/21 season, the Premier League and its member Clubs will have incurred revenue losses in the region of £2 billion, [redacted]. Given the trajectory of the pandemic, those losses will continue at least until the end of the 2021/22 season. Furthermore, the course of the virus remains uncertain and we can expect the global economic climate to remain unstable for the foreseeable future.

To be clear, I am not arguing that the value of the rights has not fallen - I think the value has fallen, largely due to a change of strategy by Sky. However, that is not the reason for the proposal to avoid a rights auction on this occasion.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Yes, Old Boy. They have less money - this isn't in dispute.

What is in dispute is whether the pandemic would prevent a competitive tender. At no stage in any of the correspondence do they claim they could not run a tender.

They would prefer not to - because they know as we both do that there's no "deep pockets" streamer waiting to blow Sky/BT out the water.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Well, I’m certainly not disputing that. Of course a pandemic would not prevent a competitive tender. The pandemic has increased the risk factor, and bids would inevitably affect that, which is the reason for the proposal.

I don’t believe that you have any links to show that the request was for any other reason.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

So, if a tender is not prevented by the pandemic, why would the profit-maximising Premier League decide not to run one?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Because there is greater risk to revenues in the short term, which would skew the bids in a downward spiral. This is clearly a temporary situation, and any degree of certainty will not return until all restrictions are eased and things settle down again.

I am unaware of any suggestion that bidding will not return when the following round is due.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

So you have accepted that the desire to drive profits is the primary reason for the EPL.deciding to roll over the current deals for three years?

That certainly says to me that there's no "deep pockets" streamer out there. Streaming services have had a good pandemic as worldwide stay at home orders have reduced alternatives for discretionary household expenditure. Now would be the best time for them to strike - if there was any appetite to enter the market at all.

As Amazon were presumably party to these discussions they clearly have no interest in going further than they have to date.

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Well, on your final point it's unavoidable legally for them to not devise a competitive tender. Covid is the excuse - not the motive - for not doing so this time.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The trajectory in UK TV rights at the last auction which occurred before the pandemic was downwards as no substantial competition to BT and Sky emerged.

2016-2019 UK TV rights over £5bn
2019-2022 They fell to £4.5bn
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43002985

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

And this is the crux of my point - they were absolutely going to fall again. Sky called it last time that there would be nobody out there to match their 2016 offer. Similarly there's nobody out there to match the 2019 offer.

BT are on record that they are trying to reduce their sports rights expenditure. The only way the rights would go up is a new entrant, or Amazon wanting to commit beyond their bargain basement rights they have just now.

If there was a genuine chance of a DAZN, Netflix, Facebook or Google bid we would be heading to auction. Spoiler: there isn't.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

But the fact there wasn't an auction presumably means OB will carry over his usual prediction of a streamer bidding for the meaningful packages to the next auction.:D:D

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

We await that next auction very keenly.;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I am not disputing that. All I have said is that the reason for the decision not to go for an auction this time around is the uncertainty brought about by Covid.

---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

Well, what else would you expect? If there is no auction, things remain the same.

Unforeseen events have a habit of disrupting predictions.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

What uncertainty does Covid bring to TV rights from 2022-2025?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Indeed. These are the glory days of streaming.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Nothing, because apparently everything is going to be fine and we will all be back to normal by June 21st… ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Except for viewers in the Granada region. ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

And of course except for viewers in Scotland.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

My personal opinion is that the Premier League football rights have reached its peak and when the next auction for TV deals comes up there's going to be very little change in how much is paid. Just my opinion of course. Maybe more streamers will come on board,who knows? Would it not be possible for say Sky and Virgin to offer a football bundle? I.E access to every games regardless of who's putting it on for a single monthly payment? Sky,and presumably Virgin have Amazon and Netflix apps already so could easily add others I imagine?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

If the Premier football clubs start going under through lack of people going through the turnstiles, I would suggest to you that this would have a significant impact for those holding TV rights, and that risk will inevitably lead to prospective bidders lowering the price they want to pay for the rights.

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Nothing to do with it.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------

Do you know something we don’t, Hugh? :D

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Just reminding you of one message in one thread (everything will be fine) and a different message in this thread (the uncertainty brought about by Covid.)… ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Context, dear boy, context.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

In this most pessimistic of scenarios, I still can't see any significant clubs folding that would lead to a reduction in the value of sports rights for the remaining clubs.

Match day revenue is not the largest income stream these days. At Manchester City, for example, it only accounts for 9% of the Club's income.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

And the context, dear boy, is that they are both happening in the same time period... ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I fail to see how the current “glory days of streaming” can be so readily dismissed by OB of all people!

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Old Boy you do seem to be holding contradictory views of the UK's Coronavirus recovery in two different threads. If the reason is to encourage healthy debate, that's absolutely fine, but don't expect it not to go unnoticed.

---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

As I've noted in the streaming thread, Eurosport's owner Discovery and HBO/WarnerMedia are set to combine with AT&T controlling the combined company,
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...premium-europe

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

My views on this are not contradictory. Personally, I am confident that this virus is close to being beaten in this country due to the vaccination programme.

However, the markets are skittish given the impact the virus has had on football this last year and markets always hate uncertainty.

---------- Post added at 23:31 ---------- Previous post was at 23:27 ----------

Once again, you’ve missed the point by a country mile.:rolleyes:

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Streamers are going from strength to strength OB. The value of the rights are in decline - even a rollover of a contract on current terms represents a decline in real terms.

If now isn’t the time to step up when will be? After all you’ve preached that they were in a position to blow Sky/BT out the water. Hanging around until the rights devalue isn’t blowing anyone out the water. It’s barely a fart in the bath.

The markets appear to confident in the companies supposedly waiting in the wings. Over the last 12 months:

Amazon share price - up.
Netflix - up.
Facebook - up.
Alphabet (Google) - up.
Apple - up.

All of these companies are cash heavy too - they wouldn’t need to be looking to third parties (loans) to finance their bids.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I don't disagree with those two points.

---------- Post added at 07:40 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------

What's that got to do with the price of eggs? It wasn't the streamers who asked for a rollover of the existing contracts. It was the Premier League.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Rational capitalists trying to profit maximise asked for an extension, OB. They knew both that there were no other buyers, and not even a credible threat of another buyer to shake out an extra few per cent from the incumbents.

Who asked for the extension has nothing to do with the price of eggs, or course, but it all points to me being correct all along that there’s no business model whereby a streamer can spend £5bn on sports rights in the UK and recoup that with a profit.

Otherwise we would have an auction.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Actually, I now think there's a couple of good reasons to do so.

1. In 2025, most HBO/WarnerMedia rights with Sky will expire except the joint productions. If WarnerMedia does merge with Discovery, the combined company will have an existing sports brand, Eurosport, in the fold. If HBO Max is launched in the UK in 2025, it could be tempted to do so with a beefed-up sports offering with Premier League rights.

2. By 2025, the future of BT Sport will be clearer as well. Certainly, the telcos like BT and AT&T seem to be stepping back from content and focusing on 5G and fibre. Many said VM was wrong to sell off its channels to focus on infrastructure but its actions seem to have been vindicated.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

In the absence of a link, I expect you think we would just take your word for that. I accept only that this is what you believe.

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

I don’t disagree, Andrew. I think Disney maybe in the running as well. I’m not so sure about Amazon now, but I wouldn’t rule them out. Maybe as others have said, Amazon will continue to go for the petit packages on offer.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I don't need to post a link that rational capitalists seek to maximise profits OB any more than I would post a link to state that the sky is blue.

You are essentially accusing the league of gross incompetence at best and at worst their executives of criminal offences under the Companies Act. Plus accusing the Government of being engaged in said conspiracy by fast tracking an approval process without competitive tender.

All under the guise of a pandemic that, as you claim elsewhere, is essentially over.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I think the future of BT Sport will help shape the offer from streamers in the UK. We could end up with three all-round streaming packages involving factualy, reality, sport, entertainment and films from Warner-Discovery, Comcast-Sky and Disney-ESPN. Or they could decide just to offer some of these content types in the UK.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Who says I dispute that capitalists seek to maximise profits? It’s the conclusions you reach that I am disputing.

I said that the reason this request for the next auction to be postponed was the coronavirus, and this is confirmed in the letter from the Premier League. I stand by that.

By the way, I agree with you that the sky is blue. No link required.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I think you’ll find it’s the uncertainty over the value - which you had accepted earlier. Basic supply and demand tells you that had there been clear demand there would be clear additional value - and an auction.

Yet I’ve pointed to many cash heavy media companies who could “blow Sky/BT” out the water on the basis of existing assets. The key point that I’ve been trying to tell you (and you persistently ignore) is there’s no viable underlying business model that warrants that kind of outlay.

If a streamer wanted to enter the market the best time was 3 years ago when the value of the rights declined. The second best time is now.

Yet there’s no appetite.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Yes, I do accept there is uncertainty over the value. And I think both Sky and BT may well pay less for the rights next time around..

But my post stated that the reason for the cancelled auction was the Coronavirus. ASI have said already, the Premier League used that as the basis of their proposal. Why you continue to dispute that despite the evidence there in black and white is beyond me, I’m afraid.

But of course you keep arguing that black is white, so maybe you cannot read the letter. :erm:

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

Perhaps, with your economist’s hat on :D you can tell me how Sky and BT can afford to buy rights to Premiership football (even before Comcast took over) but the big fella streamers cannot.

On the contrary to what you have said about entering the market, the best time to enter will be next time, when I believe there will be even less appetite by Sky and BT to fork out a small fortune for the rights. This will allow interested streamers to bid less with a good chance of success. Additionally, the broadband rollout will have advanced further by then, increasing the potential audience.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I'm not arguing black is white, OB. You are giving a selective interpretation of events to gloss over the fact that neither the EPL nor the Government give any credibility to a new entrant for (and thus an increase in the value of) the rights. Hence permitting them to bypass the usual competition law that would apply.

A quick note from the lawyers of any "deep pockets" streamer would - very quickly - have focussed the minds of the EPL who are legally bound to act in the interests of their member clubs.

The interests of the clubs were not served by going to the market. It's glaringly obvious why to everyone except you who seemingly wants to say "if only..." for the next three years.

There will be less appetite for Sky and BT to buy existing rights in the future at a real terms lower value than they do today?

That’s a mind blowing analysis to be honest OB.

I’ve explained to you a million times and I’m sure I’ll be here in three years time repeating the same. Sky and BT have business models for selling the rights. You, erroneously, assume rational capitalists (cash heavy as I’ve demonstrated above) will through some philanthropic endeavour run the rights as a loss leader. It’s not up to me to demonstrate they have a business model. Clearly neither they, nor the EPL themselves, believe such a model exists or they would have matched Sky’s 2016 bid in 2019 and won rights then.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Basically, you don’t have an argument. You have admitted that you don’t know what these business models are, and yet you say with calm confidence that their business models couldn’t support the acquisition of these sports rights.

Sky and BT on their own did not have any problem bidding, so you cannot tell me with any credibility that the bigger pocket streamers can’t afford it.

Quit while you are behind, my friend.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I cannot analyse fictional business models that seemingly exist in your head but not in the executives of Amazon, Facebook, DAZN, Google, etc.

Conflating ability to afford with being able to get a return on investment undermines your arguments as you claim to understand business in a capitalist economy.

I’ve told you these organisations are cash heavy. To the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. That is not one and the same as being willing to buy the rights without a credible business model whereby they get a return on said investment.

If the value of the rights are falling it’s clear that the market believes Sky/BT have hit as close to the optimal business model. No new entrant can invest the same and get the same return. That’s literally the purpose of a blind auction - to push all potential bidders to their limits.

Streamers - with the exception of Amazon at the bargain basement bucket - haven’t even engaged to date. I trust their judgement far more than the fiction you have developed and continue to push on the forum.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

My view is probably similar to jfman's and is based on analysing the situation, not any insider knowledge or blog posts.

I believe the Premier League have used Coronavirus as a scapegoat to cleverly maintain the existing level of TV rights when they were at risk of being eroded. I don't believe we should just accept their reason as being gospel, however nicely worded it might be. I believe we should dig a bit deeper and look at what we know anout the market dynamics and draw independent and logical conclusions.

Uncertainty about the Premier League delivering valuable content is pretty minimal to be honest. Matchday revenue is not so important these days and with interest rates low, someone is always there to lend the key clubs money. There is no likely scenario that would see the likes of Liverpool, Man City, United, Arsenal, etc all fall into administration and out of the League. If a smaller club did, it would not significantly impact the attractiveness of the TV rights.

What is certain is that the relationship between Sky and BT is now good so there is little chance of them bidding aggressively and every chance of them seizing the opportunity to reduce what they bid three years ago. And no third player has been sniffed out or it would have dropped hints to the Premier League before the League decided to request the auction be cancelled.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

I think it is more of a case that streamers don't see the value in bidding high for the PL rights.

If they did then surely they would have done so - in which case the rights would have gone to tender this time, irrespective of the civil effect.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The streamers would certainly have advised the Premier League of their interest.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

This gets lost on OB every time. They’re not charities and haven’t mounted up hundreds of billions in cash reserves by making poor investments.

The idea that anyone can just drop in £5bn and be “Sky/BT” overnight, generating the same or greater returns across their entire business is laughable. If it were that easy it’d have happened by now.

The whole purpose of the blind auction is to push everyone to their limit and be left with the last man standing. Who has considered the rest of the market and squeezed their business model to bid that little bit more.

Not a single streamer looked at what Sky paid in 2016 and matched it in 2019. There’s no evidence anyone would have in 2022, indeed the league having uncertainty indicates they believe there would be no such bid(s). The people who are literally paid to profit maximise for the league have ruled it out, Amazon have ruled it out by going along with it - but OB knows better.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Amazon have found $9bn to buy MGM.

Small change of course to the cash heavy giant. So what makes MGM a good idea but not the EPL?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Assuming it happens, they acquire a catalogue they can exploit in perpetuity both via Prime and transactional, access to some IP ripe for exploition again…plus a share in the Bond franchise.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Streaming fans should look away now. ;)

It will be interesting to see the split of rights between ITV and BBC.
https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2021...nations-rugby/

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Bezos could surely find loose change under the sofa to cover this one.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

MGM's rights are also valuable internationally to a wide demographic. The Premier League has far, far less global appeal, although it's one of the most globally popular leagues.

---------- Post added at 18:45 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

Even Eleven Sports could afford it! ;)

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

This is an oft quoted phrase, and it’s hilarious. Because something hasn’t happened already, it will never happen! What kind of argument is that?

This time last year, would you have said that AT&T would never join with Discovery because it would have happened already?

If the streamers see a benefit in offering the Premier League, they will do so when the time is right. They have the money to do it (more than Sky and BT had combined) and to say they can’t make a profit out of it when Sky and BT can is clearly nonsense.

In the US, Disney offers ESPN as a separate stream. To bring us into line, they may decide to offer the Premiership as one of the UK sport options.

Given that Discovery own Eurosport, who’s to say that after the AT&T merger they would not want to strengthen their sport offering in the UK on Discovery+ and offer the EPL?

And then there’s Amazon, who have been monitoring their smaller EPL rights performance with interest.

Any of these streamers, or even sport only streamers not yet big in the UK like DAZN, could enter the bidding process next time around. It’s just a matter of time before this happens and it’s incredible to see that some members are in complete denial about this.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Monkeys in space with typing Shakespeare territory here.

This time last year most (all?) of us would be predicting significant ongoing consolidation of global media companies.

Pray, tell OB why these rational capitalists are foregoing such an obvious profit making opportunity?

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The TV streaming landscape will change once Warner's contract with Sky ends and it has completed a merger with Discovery. It could be tempted to beef up its Eurosport offering to tempt customers from Sky, but I suspect this might depend on what happens to BT Sport.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

The problem is that, often ignored on the forum, the streaming market is a subset of the television market as a whole.

Someone has to make a significant move at some point or another or else Sky seamlessly move into the steaming market and plant themselves down there. If someone is waiting assuming Sky are unable to do this and waiting for them to fail (and then EPL rights collapse in value) they’d be as well watching coastal erosion and hoping to see something significant.

Someone somewhere has to square the circle of getting folk to spend £30 a month in addition to everything else they are already paying.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

Agreed. And through Now, Sky is in the streaming market anyway.

What's happening now is the emergence of a potential all-round competitor on the content front to Sky in the form of Warner Discovery. There currently isn't another provider in the UK that does this.

However, if it launches HBO Max in 2025, it will be late to the streaming show in the U although t will have the rather smaller Discovery + offering. What to do? If the price is right; which depends on BT's enthusiasm for sport; it may decide that some Premier League rights will give it a helping hand. BT may even decide to contribute BT Sport for a stake in the new Warner Discovery entity.

Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 

We, what about the subscriptions football fans are currently paying to Sky Sports and BT Sports?? That was one of your easier questions to answer!

Consider that circle squared!