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-   -   UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708171)

OLD BOY 21-10-2019 16:57
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014633)
Wrong... They do as they believe what is best for their country. Don't like it? elect others...

As this is going round and round, I'll not comment further on this one but politely withdraw and wish you a happy Monday
No, you are wrong. The Conservative and Labour manifestos were based on honouring the result of the referendum. Many MPs are not fulfilling that pledge. They should be ashamed.

They will get their comeuppence at the general election, whenever they have the guts to vote for one.

It will be in the country's interests to vote for the Withdrawal Bill now, unfettered by those stupid amendments designed only to see off Brexit altogether. It will serve them right if the EU failed to grant an extension, wouldn't it?

mrmistoffelees 21-10-2019 16:59
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36014636)
No, you are wrong. The Conservative and Labour manifestos were based on honouring the result of the referendum. Many MPs are not fulfilling that pledge. They should be ashamed.

They will get their comeuppence at the general election, whenever they have the guts to vote for one.

It will be in the country's interests to vote for the Withdrawal Bill now, unfettere by those stupid amendments designed only to see off Brexit altogether. It will serve them right if the EU failed to grant an extension, wouldn't it?
Well Churchill agrees with me... Or, rather, I agree with Churchill.

Yes, lets vote for a deal that is significantly worse than May's..... that's the obvious thing to do

If the EU refuse to grant an extension we can always vote to revoke Article 50... but that would open up a whole new can of worms ;)

OLD BOY 21-10-2019 17:02
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36014634)
Boris' letter didn't do any good then?
I like it!

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014637)
Well Churchill agrees with me... Or, rather, I agree with Churchill.

Yes, lets vote for a deal that is significantly worse than May's..... that's the obvious thing to do

If the EU refuse to grant an extension we can always vote to revoke Article 50... but that would open up a whole new can of worms ;)
Most leavers see a massive improvement to May's Bill, which they view as being BRINO.

I thought the revocation of Article 50 had already been voted down by Parliament? Yet something else they don't want!

denphone 21-10-2019 17:03
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36014636)
No, you are wrong. The Conservative and Labour manifestos were based on honouring the result of the referendum. Many MPs are not fulfilling that pledge. They should be ashamed.

They will get their comeuppence at the general election, whenever they have the guts to vote for one.

It will be in the country's interests to vote for the Withdrawal Bill now, unfettered by those stupid amendments designed only to see off Brexit altogether. It will serve them right if the EU failed to grant an extension, wouldn't it?
Manifestos are just two bob promises that ain't worth the paper they are written on...

mrmistoffelees 21-10-2019 17:04
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36014638)
I like it!

---------- Post added at 17:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:00 ----------



Most leavers see a massive improvement to May's Bill, which they view as being BRINO.

I thought the revocation of Article 50 had already been voted down by Parliament? Yet something else they don't want!
I'm not sure how you can define the loss of protection of workers rights as an improvement?

That's just the tip of the iceberg.....

jonbxx 21-10-2019 17:06
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36014612)
When has the EU ever passed a directive aimed at helping businesses and reducing their costs? The single market is aimed at forcing higher costs onto the "little guys".
Imagine 'Company X' (ahem) that ships ~250,000 orders from a warehouse in the European Union to countries across the European Union. With automated systems, 'Company X' estimates it would take around 30 seconds per order to check;
  • Commercial Invoicing
  • INCOTERMs specific to receiving country legislation
  • Correct application of Harmonised Tariff Codes
  • Correct diligence for 'dual use' products (red flags)

as a minimum.

So, 250,000 x 30 seconds = 7,500,000 seconds = 260days, assuming an 8 hour day. If 'Company X' paid minimum wage at UK rates, that would be a cost of £17,104 in salary alone. Bear in mind that salary is 30-50% of the cost of an employee...

The customs union and single market remove that cost

mrmistoffelees 21-10-2019 17:11
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36014643)
Imagine 'Company X' (ahem) that ships ~250,000 orders from a warehouse in the European Union to countries across the European Union. With automated systems, 'Company X' estimates it would take around 30 seconds per order to check;
  • Commercial Invoicing
  • INCOTERMs specific to receiving country legislation
  • Correct application of Harmonised Tariff Codes
  • Correct diligence for 'dual use' products (red flags)

as a minimum.

So, 250,000 x 30 seconds = 7,500,000 seconds = 260days, assuming an 8 hour day. If 'Company X' paid minimum wage at UK rates, that would be a cost of £17,104 in salary alone. Bear in mind that salary is 30-50% of the cost of an employee...

The customs union and single market remove that cost
Are you seriously advocating that we shouldn't pay hard working employees a minimum wage?

Wow

Pierre 21-10-2019 17:31
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014637)
Yes, lets vote for a deal that is significantly worse than May's..... that's the obvious thing to do
in what specific items is the deal significantly worse?

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014642)
I'm not sure how you can define the loss of protection of workers rights as an improvement?

That's just the tip of the iceberg.....
Which rights have been lost? And as seen as you've read the whole thing and know it inside out compared to May's deal, don't stop at the tip. Give all reasons in detail.

OLD BOY 21-10-2019 17:34
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014642)
I'm not sure how you can define the loss of protection of workers rights as an improvement?

That's just the tip of the iceberg.....
What rights? This is just stupid speculation by remainers, and particularly the Labour opposition.

The Withdrawal Bill, if eventually enacted, will transfer all EU employment legislation into UK law. You seem to forget that the UK has been ahead of the game when it comes to employment rights. Particularly under a Conservative Government.

mrmistoffelees 21-10-2019 17:37
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36014651)
What rights? This is just stupid speculation by remainers, and particularly the Labour opposition.

The Withdrawal Bill, if eventually enacted, will transfer all EU employment legislation into UK law. You seem to forget that the UK has been ahead of the game when it comes to employment rights. Particularly under a Conservative Government.
Well apart from you're wrong again.... because...

t's all to do with something called the "level playing field" - the idea that countries keep their rules and standards close, to stop one country giving their businesses a competitive advantage - for example by having lower standards and so lower costs.

EU regulations
The extent to which the UK might diverge from EU regulations in the future and become an economic competitor has been a big issue in the Brexit debate.

EU regulations cover things like:

The working time directive, which limits the number of hours people can work
Maximum amounts of particular pollutants there can be in the air
Requirements for workers doing the same jobs to be paid equally.
They set minimum standards below which government cannot go. After Brexit, UK governments would no longer have to abide by these minimum levels.

In the new Brexit deal finalised this week, references to a level playing field were removed from the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

Instead, they appear in the non-binding political declaration on the future relationship - as an aspiration, but not a legal commitment.




There's just on reason why it's worse

OLD BOY 21-10-2019 17:44
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014652)
Well apart from you're wrong again.... because...

t's all to do with something called the "level playing field" - the idea that countries keep their rules and standards close, to stop one country giving their businesses a competitive advantage - for example by having lower standards and so lower costs.

EU regulations
The extent to which the UK might diverge from EU regulations in the future and become an economic competitor has been a big issue in the Brexit debate.

EU regulations cover things like:

The working time directive, which limits the number of hours people can work
Maximum amounts of particular pollutants there can be in the air
Requirements for workers doing the same jobs to be paid equally.
They set minimum standards below which government cannot go. After Brexit, UK governments would no longer have to abide by these minimum levels.

In the new Brexit deal finalised this week, references to a level playing field were removed from the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

Instead, they appear in the non-binding political declaration on the future relationship - as an aspiration, but not a legal commitment.




There's just on reason why it's worse
If we had a level playing field, we would not be able to improve conditions for workers if the EU did not do the same.

How is that worse?

Perhaps you are looking through the wrong end of your binoculars.

Pierre 21-10-2019 18:04
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014652)
Well apart from you're wrong again.... because...

t's all to do with something called the "level playing field" - the idea that countries keep their rules and standards close, to stop one country giving their businesses a competitive advantage - for example by having lower standards and so lower costs.

EU regulations
The extent to which the UK might diverge from EU regulations in the future and become an economic competitor has been a big issue in the Brexit debate.

EU regulations cover things like:

The working time directive, which limits the number of hours people can work
Maximum amounts of particular pollutants there can be in the air
Requirements for workers doing the same jobs to be paid equally.
They set minimum standards below which government cannot go. After Brexit, UK governments would no longer have to abide by these minimum levels.

In the new Brexit deal finalised this week, references to a level playing field were removed from the legally-binding withdrawal agreement.

Instead, they appear in the non-binding political declaration on the future relationship - as an aspiration, but not a legal commitment.




There's just on reason why it's worse
High on conjecture and interpretation, low on facts and detail.

ianch99 21-10-2019 18:15
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36014634)
Boris' letter didn't do any good then?
Won't work, they would send us one with european plugs :)

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36014630)
According to who?

we voted for Leave, no deal is a form of Leave, Mandate fulfilled.



they're not though.
Oh please! Nuclear Armageddon is a form of Leave but I doubt there are takers. Let's not replay 2016 all over again, we were all there and we all know what was promised.

---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:11 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36014642)
I'm not sure how you can define the loss of protection of workers rights as an improvement?

That's just the tip of the iceberg.....
OB likes this version of the future. It means all those nice & generous business owners can invest profits in workers salaries, conditions & pensions and refuse to feed the greed of the stockholders. Oh damn .. I may have the wrong Brexit ..

papa smurf 21-10-2019 18:16
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36014656)
Won't work, they would send us one with european plugs :)

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------



Oh please! Nuclear Armageddon is a form of Leave but I doubt there are takers. Let's not replay 2016 all over again, we were all there and we all know what was promised.


No problem here's a back stop to cover it.

mrmistoffelees 21-10-2019 18:20
Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36014655)
High on conjecture and interpretation, low on facts and detail.
Really, seen the text have we ?


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