Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Or people could do some of their own research, rather than complaining about it....

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They could but it's not really to much to ask to expect people to tell the truth and perhaps draconian measures are in order to ensure our elected officials do that.


Speaking of complaining, something that made me feel quite sad was the most Googled uk search in the hours after the referendum was 'what is the EU', how can you vote with any confidence if you don't even remotely know what you're voting for, people say it's the democratic will of the people but that's not democracy to me, political scientists say that population need to actively participate rather than sleepwalk into the voting booth

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This is often repeated but I've never seen any evidence that these just weren't the people who hadn't in-fact voted.

Furthermore even if you approximately know what the EU is, phrasing stupid questions to google is often a good way to get more information.
It may just have been all the journalists trying to plagiarise a sentence for the opening of their articles.

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Agreed Daddy i was staggered when that came out where is basic curiosity these days for months it was everywhere and yet a lot only looked into what the EU was after casting a vote i honestly don't understand it. Also agree that as we clearly can no longer assume honesty in our officials there should be some mechanism in place to punish those who knowingly lie or mislead. Despite voting out I'd volunteer both boris johnson and michael gove to be the first at testing a mechanism as both of them were pursuing their personal ambitions using an important national vote.

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I think what too many people are looking for is simple answers and choices in a complex world where there are few. Good v bad. Black v. white. Sometimes it comes to deciding on the least worst option but far too many people are still prepared to vote for the people who say "it'll all be OK if we're in power & you'll be better off". Our politicians really aren't popular when they tell the unpleasant truth so it's not surprising that they may come to the conclusion that being economical with the actuality is the best way forward. Let's face it, if our leaders were brutally honest about everything at the time (e.g. how bad the banking collapse really was) they'd probably have caused havoc and made things far worse. :spin:

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It comes down to can we trust them or not and lying or deliberately misleading because the truth may not be rainbows and unicorns does not incline people to trust and i think that's why so many are apathetic towards politics now. This attitude of treating the public like children and hiding the unpleasant truth has not worked and while we have a sizable group in this country that spit out their dummies when they are told something they don't like i suspect the majority would rather have the unpleasant truth then a pleasant lie.

The truth allows us to address issue's, cause's us to think about them and in turn deal with them, hiding the truth does nothing positive except maybe get a politician off the hook temporarily. We've had a couple of decades of spin, creative disclosure and misleading and our society and politics are worse for it it's time for a change and honesty would be refreshing.

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Interesting, Maggy the remainer

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pported-brexit

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Brexit would probably not have happened if David Cameron really did have a well organised plan for dealing with immigration but he didn't have a plan and despite rigorous questioning he came up with the same mantralike answer he wanted to say rather than the answer the public wanted to hear. As a consequence he came across as a person who was trying to hide something, which indeed he was.

As it transpires while our government ponders over Brexit the EU is starting to panic as it begins to realise that the UK really is intending to leave and all the adverse consequences that may have for the EU. We have already had a few positive statements since the Brexit decision about the UK having special status, the possibilities of a special deal and the fact that the EU might fall apart without the UK. There have even been admissions that London will still remain the financial capital of Europe following Brexit.

The responses from the rest of the world have been most welcome and give us great hope for the future.

The EU politicians have been playing a great big poker game trying to make the situation look bad for the UK but Mrs May has called their bluff because unlike David Cameron she has done her research and is coming up with a plan. She seems a more open and honest politician, if there is such a thing, but like all these things the truth will eventually come out.

The ironic thing is that in their discussions one EU minister said that the UK were leaving the current version of the EU which is true because if the EU were to reform substantially for the benefit of all members becoming just a free trade area as it was before it's possible that the UK would stay but the EU is unlikely to reform and even if it did it's unlikely to willingly come up with a deal that has the freedoms which Brexit provides.

By taking steps to prevent other countries from leaving the EU is hastening its own demise. If we wait long enough the EU will collapse and we will end up being able to trade freely with any EU country and still have the power to run our own country and immigration policy free of interference.

It will be interesting to see what the future brings.

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Japan surveyed a bunch of their businesses, and have produced a document directed at both the UK and the EU.

It basically indicates the level of disruption the Japanese will tolerate from Brexit without it endangering their investments here and in the EU.

These requests will, for those opposed to EEA membership or something very close to it, be unacceptable.

They also ask that the EU be reasonable in its dealings with the UK and if necessary offer businesses appropriate transition arrangements.

Full document is here.

Faisal Islam at Sky's analysis here.

There is nothing in here that wouldn't be expected from a 3rd party that invests in both areas, and the UK will be getting a bunch more communications like this, with the caveat that for the most part they'll probably be kept private. We'll likely have received or be receiving much the same from the USA, China and others.

Following on from this is the comment from Obama that we are indeed still at the back of the queue, and the USA is concentrating on TTIP and TTP first, which makes sense.

The Conservative government are in an unenviable position. Is the plan to turn the UK into a giant tax haven economy to retain these businesses, which will have horrendous effects for equality of wealth and income. At what price 'control'?

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If you read for what Japan have asked for (other than EEA etc) then we can see the beginnings of a possible deal that doesn't involve the EEA.

Japanese companies have asked the EU for temporary passporting rights whilst they relocate (assuming no EEA). I think we could have a soft-brexit approach whereby we can limit EU migration almost immediately after exit and in return get some sort of trade deal for goods whilst services are given 'x years' free access which slowly gets wound down. So for a few years we'll have both limits on migration and be in the single-market with the single market benefits getting slowly removed.

It would stop any dramatic shock to both the EU and the UK whilst the EU get a lot of the big services firms and we limit migration.

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Dave was always hiding something. I think we all know that now.
he was a very dodgy man.

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Looking like there will be no points system for immigration: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37271420

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PMI numbers for August are very good.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37274279

Initial shock has faded and activity that was put off until after the vote is happening. Good.

The better the shape of the economy when the really unpleasant stuff starts to hit the more jobs saved and fewer people suffering.

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Good news. There is certainty in the possibility of uncertainty. :D

Probably more like the comment in the link and the british stoic character to not panic and carry on.

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Yes indeed.

The down side is it's likely because the government have so far failed to provide any detail on what Brexit actually entails, so businesses are now just getting on with it.

We're completely in limbo at the moment. The prophecies of doom haven't happened as we're just stalled and doing nothing, the progress we've made towards making the best of the situation also non-existent. We've done nothing and have no clue where we're going after the exit door.

Some movement would be good sooner rather than later on this, to at least give us some idea of where we're going. Leaving us and our partners dangling for too long is unfair even if it is politically expedient.