Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136176)

5G backup for me. I can’t believe I’m in the fifth richest economy in the world :rofl:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136179)

By what "measure"?

Other countries, including Germany and France, have been making "worst case" plans. Nothing unique to the UK or wealth of country.
We are exporting electricity to France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, so they must desperately need it at the moment.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136181)

I agree our economic decline probably means we aren’t the fifth richest economy int the world. Still, I shouldn’t be asked to tolerate 3 hours of blackouts. That’s supposed to be the type of event that distinguishes us from a failed state.

The fact other countries will likely be joining us is a red herring.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136181)

The fact other countries will likely be joining us is a red herring.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36136190)

Of course it isn’t a red herring - it’s a clear indication that exceptional circumstances apply, and the usual metrics might not be useful.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136186)

You still haven't answered the question of "by what measure".
The FACT that other even richer(by whatever measure) countries are ALSO making plans for possible, IE not definite, scenarios it not a "red herring". Saying it's a "red herring" is actually the "red herring".:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136191)

If a number of economies all fell for the false belief the private sector alone could (and indeed would) satisfy all our needs that collective failure doesn’t detract for our own.

Given your penchant for British exceptionalism, I’d have expected you to have not accepted being the average of following the sheep as an excuse for our lack of energy security.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36136195)

Oh please.

You proposed that energy supply problems were an indicator of a ‘failed state’. There are miles of clear blue water between ‘long-term policy failure’ and ‘failed state’.

I actually thought you were better at nuance than this.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136179)

By what "measure"?

Other countries, including Germany and France, have been making "worst case" plans. Nothing unique to the UK or wealth of country.
We are exporting electricity to France, Belgium, and the Netherlands, so they must desperately need it at the moment.

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36136202)

We’re exporting because we have very very limited storage compared to other nations.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136191)

<SNIP>

My measure is I expect the role of the state is to ensure energy security rather than rely on “the markets”, Russia or the Middle East.

I expect when I flick the light switch it to go on. That’s my measure. I don’t live in South Africa where rationing is a part of life.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136191)

If a number of economies all fell for the false belief the private sector alone could (and indeed would) satisfy all our needs that collective failure doesn’t detract for our own.

Given your penchant for British exceptionalism, I’d have expected you to have not accepted being the average of following the sheep as an excuse for our lack of energy security.

---------- Post added at 17:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------



My measure is I expect the role of the state is to ensure energy security rather than rely on “the markets”, Russia or the Middle East.

I expect when I flick the light switch it to go on. That’s my measure. I don’t live in South Africa where rationing is a part of life.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36136217)

How has any of that got anything to do with how "rich" a country is?
Only 5% of our gas requirements have come from Russia. For the EU as a whole it's 40%. Germany by itself 55%. Germany doesn't have any LNG facilities for importing gas, the UK has 3.

Which situation would you rather be in? UK, EU, Germany?
There were shortages and price increase before Russia did anything.

The problem is that each country will try and outbid others for whatever gas there is.
South Africa relies on ageing coal-fired plants, which are having problems, just as France's Nuclear plants are/were having problems.

At this very moment, we are exporting 1GW to France, 1GW to Belgium, and 1GW to the Netherlands. If it wasn't for the UK, one or more of those countries would be facing blackouts.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136191)

I expect when I flick the light switch it to go on. That’s my measure.