Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

I'm sorry to hear that, but your apparent solution of "do nothing and hope that it all goes away in time" (i'm not quoting you just my interpretation of your stance) is probably the most blatant case of Ostrich & head in sand I have ever heard of.

I am very glad that our world leaders do not share that view.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Well, I think i'm going to stop posting in this thread anymore. It's taking up too much time, and the fun has certainly been sucked out. There's no mutual respect (or appears to be none), arguments are becoming circular, and are really starting to get a bit petty (not helped by myself, I admit), so it's better to let this one go, after Graham has had his say.

Thanx everyone for all the reps and support. Nice to know that when you hold a certain set of beliefs, which go against the popular held ones, that someone else agrees. I appreciate it :)

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

I think the problem with Osama Bin Laden and his followers is that they have adopted Saddam's view that an attack on Iraq is an attack on Islam and since followers of Islam live beyond the boundaries of Iraq, it follows that countries supporting the war against Iraq are now prime targets from Islamic terrorists of many nationalities.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

No, it doesn't, at least not until the point where you think that your *opinion* carries more weight than someone else's.

:rofl:

Then I suggest you buy a dictionary.

(Snip of lots of stuff that isn't worth bothering with)

Wrong *AGAIN*! To "help" someone remain in power is to do something *active*. The purpose of UN Sanctions, as I just pointed out, is "to maintain or restore international peace and security", which is *NOT* the same.

And I, in turn, think *you* need to adjust yours! You are *much* more likely to be killed in a road accident than *ever* to die in a terrorist attack (last year more people died on the UK's roads than died in the September 11th attacks!)

Yet because terrorist attacks get headlines and TV news coverage, whilst road accidents (unless very spectacular or bloody) do not, people have a completely mis-guided idea of what risks they *actually* face every day.

Actually I was thinking of "paranoid"...! :D

No, we should worry about it *before* we lose the rights that enable this sort of thing to even *happen*.

Because Qusay Hussein *was* the government as far as the Iraqi secret police were concerned. If *any* government lets their Security Services or Secret Police or whatever you want to call them violate the basic rights of its people *without* being held to account because it's "to protect the state" and the people do not, or cannot hold the government to account, then the whole balance shifts to a situation that does *not* benefit the people.

"You thought". Yes, yet again you assume that *everyone* thinks the same as you! Whereas I think you'll find that a lot of people do *not* consider Arthur Scargill or Enoch Powell to be subversives and most certainly should *not* be lumped in with Abu Hamza!!

THANK YOU!! (With heavy emphasis) :rolleyes:

Yes, actually it is.

Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance. - Confucius

Oh dear. Punky, I *never* insulted you until you resorted to the childish and petty tactic of pedanting a spelling mistake to try to score a point. (I could, if I could be bothered, also argue that "childish and petty" are not insulting, but merely descriptive!)

You have made *numerous* spelling and grammatical errors (not to mention having committed serious acts of abuse against the poor innocent comma!) but I have *not* deemed it fit or necessary to bring these up previously.

I have been willing to leave these alone because for all I know you may be dyslexic, have had learning difficulties, or have English as your second or third language, however when *you* start using these tactics, you should not be surprised if your own shortcomings are pointed out to you.

I think you need to look a bit closer into the US's history of its behaviour towards other countries...!! Columbia, Nicaragua, Chile, Cuba, Grenada... :D

I suggest you take a closer look at the UN's charter and see what the UN's job actually *IS*. (Oh, BTW, I also suggest you look at the League of Nations that was set up after World War I and see why it failed. Here's a hint, it was because a big country decided that it didn't need to join in. The initials of that country are an anagram of S, U and A...!)

It "proves" nothing of the sort!

<Cough> Northern Ireland <cough>

Ah, another wonderful word: "naturally". Just as it was "natural" for the "superior" White Race to enslave the "inferior" Black Race...!

And you were doing so well.

And that was *obviously, of course, in *no way* due to prejudices in society!

When you do research you don't ignore inconvenient facts because they don't fit in with what you want to prove.

I suggest you read it more carefully: "In the "Bible belt" of the South, 55% of school districts had "abstinence-only" policies while the northeast insisted on such curriculum in just 20% of districts."

They are talking about *School districts*, not the government. It is the Government who, in Congress in 1996, passed legislation which "made available $250 million for teaching abstinence."

Suggested by *whom*? Cite please.

I recall not so long ago (January 2003) when we were "saved" from a deadly terrorist attack after "traces of ricin" were found in a London Flat.

"The arrests were being hailed by MI5 as "significant" and confirmation of background intelligence pointing to attempts by terrorist groups linked to al-Qa'eda to acquire biological, chemical or even nuclear weapons."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...%2Fnrici09.xml

Curiously enough, after the initial splash of stories, there seems to have been very little written since about this. Odd.

That "fact" is not a fact. It is another opinion.

Oh dear, once again you seem to have little idea of what you're talking about. Do you really think that someone's going to just write to an explosives manufactuer and say "ok, I'd like to order a hundred kilos of Semtex, deliver to this address"...??

Any farmer could make a pretty decent bomb with half a tonne of fertilizer, some diesel fuel and a few bags of bolts bought *entirely* legitimately. There are *many* ways of making explosive devices with common chemicals as any chemistry student will tell you. Intercepting people's e-mails will do *NOTHING* to stop this.

Gosh, I *wish* I lived in your world where everything is so *clearly* black and white...!!

Regrettably I live in the Real World (tm) where things are a *little* more complicated. Shame.

But again, you state opinions *as if* they are facts!! Look again at what you wrote:

"Because it is the US that will feel the repercussions if country-X doesn't do anything, if terrorists are active within its borders."

"It *IS* the US that *WILL* feel the repercussions". Not "it is my opinion". Not "I think", you state this as a bald fact.

You then carry on, above, "You are telling me that the US being the #1 desired target for middle-eastern terrorism, is not a fact? " as if that was what you *said* when, in fact, it was not. And, by the way, not *all* Middle-East terrorism is directed against the USA...!

Yes, because the government tried to blame ETA without any reasonable proof and exploit the bombings for political gain, causing a massive backlash.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

No, you're not quoting me, because, were you to *try* to quote anything of mine that actually *said* my stance was "do nothing and hope that it all goes way in time" would leave you with nothing to quote *at all*.

Try reading what I have *actually* said, instead of trying to force your own mis-guided interpretations onto my words.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Yes, it stops being fun when someone kicks big holes in your arguments...

Mutual means "expressed by *both* sides"...! :rofl:

Thank you for at least admitting that.

(Sings) "The Lurkers support me in e-mail"...! :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, I thought it was *me* who was the one who was holding to a certain set of beliefs that went against the popularly held ones...!!
:shocked:

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

I was against the war in iraq from day one.

Not because I felt Saddam was being wronged but because of the reasons given for going to war.

Terrorism will never stop.
What happened on 9/11 was always coming, I agree that the body count was unusually high for a terrorist attack, but I also dont believe they knew that the towers would come down.

Terrorism happens on a glabal scale and America isnt the only victim. They cannot win the war on terrorism, the more they fight the more they will agitate others.

What can they do?

First step would be get rid of Dubya. He's a war monger, he is trying to open fights based on anything and his gov attack anyone that disagrees with them.

Bombing civilians will not make any difference, the terrorists will neither win nore loose, same as the governments fighting terrorism.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

You have said on many occasions in this thread that we should not go after Al-qaeda with force or military might and let the muslim communities in the middle east sort it themselves.

I am a reasonably intelligent person and that is how I came to interperet your stance. If I have mis-interpreted this please put me straight and give me your "definitive" stance on this subject.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Nah. Remember the political compass thread where most people ended up left-of-centre and anti-authoritarian.

George Bush has been so successful in his cunning War on Terror strategy that his forces are bogged down in Iraq looking for non-existent weapons and dealing with an Islamic fundamentalist insurgency that didn't exist there a year ago. Al-Qaeda (well, its associated groups, which is essentially what al-Qaeda is) has had lots of excellent publicity and images of the US invading Muslim countries to help recruitment and is free to attack worldwide when it feels like it, now the US is looking elsewhere. Israel is still suffering suicide bombings, the Palestinians are suffering reprisal attacks and are having a wall built through their land, perpetuating the cycle of hate and mistrust that is one of the key drivers of terrorism. I remember a 'Roadmap for Peace' a while back, but there appears to have been a wrong turn.

Russia has 're-elected' what looks suspiciously like a one-party state, and is still engaged with the bothersome Chechens, who've been blowing up commuter trains for a good while now, as well as providing a source of well-motivated hairy b*stards to the grateful Bin Laden and co. Get Really Tough On Terrorists not working there, I feel.

The Libyans have decided to admit everything the US wants them to admit in return for money, except for their Prime Minister who let slip that they had nothing to do with Lockerbie, but was quickly sat upon now Muammar is George'n'Tony's new best mate. Yvonne Who? Talk to terrorists, us? Funny, I remember in the 70s if an Irishman pretended he'd murdered 20 people he was beaten up and given life imprisonment - Gaddafi pretends he murdered 270 and gets to meet the Prime Minister to discuss oil contracts.

Although you can lay a number of charges at Bush's door, short-termism, ignorance, arrogance, paranoia, stupidity, nepotism, religious fundamentalism, the one that really sticks for me is incompetence. And that is deeply worrying in the supposed leader of the free world. Based on the last year, his school report would have the b*gger in detention for the next year writing out 'I must try to concentrate' 5000 times.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Yes, but that is not *ALL* I have said.

Let me quote from my message #107:

"I suggest you look at my comments where I point out that it should be up to the *Muslim Community* to sort this problem out for themselves, rather than trying to force a "solution" (which is acceptable to us) on to them, because that will only *increase* the resentment against the West."

Yes, we should let the Muslims deal with their problems, no, we should not try to *force* a solution upon them, but there is *nothing* in there that a "reasonably intelligent" person could or should interpret as saying "do nothing and hope that it all goes way in time".

That is the sort of spin that a politician would add to someone else's comments.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Ok then what should we do apart from that? as opposed to "doing nothing"

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Oh dear, here we go again...! :rolleyes:

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Whilst you have posted many replies on this thread you have rubbished most peoples attempts at providing a solution to the problem but not been brave enough to supply your own.

a quote from one of your first posts If you believe there is more than one solution then provide it as you have only provided one up until now. Which is the †œlet Islamic states sort it themselvesââ ¡Ãƒâ€šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ� stance.

Another one of your quotes, which sums up the way you responded to most things on in this thread. You object and belittle a lot of posts and yet come up with nothing yourself.

Anyone can make objections etc, but if they constantly do this without being willing to go out on a limb and give their ideas Iâ₠¬ÃƒÆ’¢â€žÂ¢m afraid their argument then holds much less stock.

Is it because if you were to give your ideas/solutions you are afraid that other people will be able to make baseless objections to your ideas?

It is a good a good job the people we have running the country are able to give differing opinions backed up with differing ideas. Can you imagine a debate in the House of Commons based on your strategy.

1st person †œI think we should go after Al-Qaeda and use our military/intelligence to intercept them before they launch an attack on the UK mainlandââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�

2nd person †œ I donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t think we shouldââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ÂÂ�

1st Person †œOK, what do you think we should doâ₠¬Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â�

2nd Person †œI donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t have to have a different solution to object to your ideaââ‚ ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

1st Person †œGood point, letââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s go for a pint and forget aboutââ‚ƚ¬Ã‚ÂÂÂ�

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Ha, I can't wait for the Yassin Assassinated thread to start up, now that thread will be a bundle of fun.

Re: Madrid Bomb Blast
 

Pierre, I have already explained what I have done in this and other threads.

Accusing me of cowardice is not a way to conduct a reasoned debate and until you learn what is I am not going to waste my time responding to baseless insults.