Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Eh???

By your logic, shouldn't VM be charging ITV to use their cable network!

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Sky don't own the satellite, SES Astra owns it. ITV pays Sky for EPG services only. As far as I know, ITV pays a third party for uplink and transponder capacity, I don't track which company it uses, it used to be NTL Broadcast, if the contract has been renewed it is now, probably, Arqiva.

Why can't ITV do what it does with satellite? Pay VM for EPG services and broadcast capacity?

ITV operates under a public service licence, the onus should be on ITV to ensure that its PSB services reach as wide an audience as possible. That is why there is a "must offer" obligation to provide the service.

ITV is testing the water, even though the Government made it clear that there shouldn't be any such charge when it introduced the legislation. Unfortunately, a weak Government with a slim majority and little authority is backing away from the issue. It's a mess created by the new legislation.

Although ITV are wanting VM customers to pay significantly more to VM for viewing ITV PSB services which they make available at no cost to the viewer on other platforms.

---------- Post added at 01:51 ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 ----------

You would think so, it seems to be a very confused way of looking at things.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I was going to steam in and say "vm wanting it all their own way again." but i've been looking around and gathering as much info as i could about this and i agree with Jj20x it seems ITV could be testing the water, this is all down to a weak goverment and new legilasations that are in place.
I think both SKY and VM need to call ITVs bluff and let ITV pull their channels, ITV will soon go crawling back.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Forgot to mention that using an AD feed would also maintain the Audio Description service for those VM customers with sight problems throughout the UK.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:04 ----------

In addition to what jj20x said, there is a legal precedent to consider that complicates matters even more.

AIUI a site called TVCatchup used to rebroadcast a load of FTA channels over the internet. They maintained that they were doing nothing wrong and, in fact, were helping to extend the reach of various broadcasters.

The commercial channels didn't like this as TVCatchup used to derive it's income from inserting their own adverts (as they saw it, on the back of the programmes that they paid for).

It went to court and it was ruled that TVCatchup could only rebroadcast channels 1-5 without permission and/or paying and rebroadcast fees. The site carried only channels 1-5 and some shopping channels last time I looked.

I have a feeling that this is what prompted the Government to change the law, so that eg ITV could force TVCatchup to pay something towards the programmes that they benefited from via retransmission fees.

Unfortunately, because of the sloppy way that the legislation was introduced and the greed of ITV, Virgin Media have become caught up in this mess.

Presumably, TVCatchup now have to pay something to ITV, whilst VM face having their service cut off if they refuse to follow suit- yet, as jj20x pointed out, the law also says that they 'must carry' PSB channels, so they have a duty to maintain the service!!

Reminds me of the time a man constructed a building without planning permission. He was ordered to pull it down, but, since construction, some bats had made their home there.

He was told that if he disturbed the bats he would be prosecuted for interfering with a protected species, whilst at the same time being told that he would be prosecuted if he didn't demolish the building!!!

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

They can't even do that yet as VM pay ITV for the other channels ITV2, ITV3 etc, not sure how long that agreement has to run.

The PSB rule only applies to ITV, and it's the only one VM doesn't pay for.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I don't know either, buf if ITV continue to pursue this line of opinion, it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to tie in paid carriage of ITV with carriage for their other channels and ITV Encore on demand.

If this ended without agreement, we could see ITV2 etc being removed as I don't think that they'd be able to legally rebroadcast these from satellite.

VM fund the HD variant of ITVBe in return for exclusivity, I would think that this arrangement won't be renewed after these shenanigans.

I'll try and find out when the ITV pay channels are up for renewal.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

I don't know how popular the ITV offshoots are, but personally, in our household, we only ever watch the main channel, ITV 3 and ITV Encore.

If VM can access the main ITV channel from alternative feeds , then that is what they should do, in my opinion. I don't care for myself whether ITV is on the VM EPG or not as I can receive it through my aerial, and I have a DVD recorder, but I know that a proportion of viewers can only receive the channel by way of cable, which is why I hope that VM win this ridiculous fight.

ITV is not the channel it once was, and I would have thought it would be well advised not to put in place measures that would antagonise people and lead to a reduced audience.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Although that potentially puts VM in the no-win situation of the man who constructed a building without planning permission in Richard's example. If VM do find another source and use it, then ITV win their case to charge retransmission fees, it leaves VM with no elbow room at all. In that scenario, they have to pay the fees. If VM decide not to pay the fee and subsequently remove a service they have sourced, then VM are failing to meet their "must carry" obligation.

If ITV cut the feed and VM don't find an alternative source, ITV are at fault for failing to meet the "must offer" requirement. VM could then argue that they are still happy to carry the service but that it is being withheld by ITV. In the meantime, ITV loses advertising revenue, making them more willing to negotiate a much fairer solution. Also, failing to offer the service potentially puts ITV in breach of their PSB licence.

---------- Post added at 02:07 ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 ----------

A little background reading:

http://www.osborneclarke.com/insight...-deregulation/

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

According to the link you posted, ITV's demand for payment from Virgin Media would be a 'prohibited charge', and that appears the correct way to look at this.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Right but remember that's what the DCMS "considered" to be the case at the time of the consultation. They have backtracked somewhat since then. Unfortunately, it's not explicit in the legislation and ITV appears to be ignoring the initial conclusion of the DCMS.

This is why I have suggested that ITV should be left to make any move and for it to take the risk as the PSB licence holder. Then allow Ofcom and the DCMS to clean up the mess and to order ITV to fulfil the terms of the "must-offer" requirement of the Communications Act and their PSB licence.

As much as ITV threatens to blackout the channel, the Communications Act hasn't been repealed and still requires that they offer the channel to pay-tv providers. As I said earlier, ITV appear to be testing the water.

It would be sensible for VM and, eventually, Sky Online to be clear about the carriage of PSB channels in their channel guides and publicity material. Showing them as PSB channels carried "at no cost" to all TV end customers and not listing them as a part of any subscription pack. If the PSBs then claim a share of the pay-tv revenue attributable to PSB channels, they are asking for a share of £0.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20171122...#axzz4z9wsgbUc

Not good news for ITV, with advertising revenues falling again. No wonder they are seeking a boost to their coffers.

In my view, ITV would be very unwise to over-play their hand, since denying VM access to their main channel will only have one outcome. That is, further reduction of their advertising revenue stream due to a reduced audience share.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

For once our minds think alike.:Yikes::eeek:

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Well, as that's the nicest thing you've said to me in a while, I'll post something that might interest you on the streaming services thread right now!

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

l always try to be polite to everybody as differing opinions is what this forum is about as if we all agreed on everything then they might as well join up to join the clones where every mind is alike.

Re: ITV threaten to blackout on Virgin
 

Apparently, reports on the web say that VM & ITV signed a ten year deal in 2015.

Info. courtesy of MB.