Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

True - we just have to do a far better job of working out who we're letting into Europe and keeping out/detecting as many maniacs as we can. including those already amongst us. We're all subject to daily CCTV surveillance because a relatively few people decide upon law breaking. We all suffer but accept security measures at airports which are only required because a relatively few people would do us harm. Now we have to apply similarly robust measures to all our borders and migration policy. because amongst the many there are those who're committed to kill us. It'd be great if we didn't need to but we clearly do and that is going to affect all of us in one way or another.

Frankly I'd rather feel a bit safer going to a football match, music venue or restaurant than be able to roam around Europe without the need to even show a passport. How many opportunities to stop the Serbian guy who was found with weapons in his vehicle the other day (and many people like him) have been missed because of the nonsense which is Schengen?

We need to accept we don't have freedom, we have some freedom and in order to protect the freedoms which matter most to us, we're going to need to sacrifice others.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Doesn't really matter if you can keep out all current terrorists when so many new ones come along in this and other countries.

The bridgehead is already too well established.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

How the French authorities have put up with the St Denis situation for all these years is beyond belief. Thousands of illegal immigrants, a seething pool of crime and the birthplace of major jihadist madness.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

It matters. Yes, as I mentioned, we have a serious problem already amongst us and our security services are overloaded dealing with that threat. We really don't need to add to it by allowing more in. We can't isolate ourselves from the threats we face, the best we can do is to make it as hard as possible for the terrorists but at this stage we can only hope to reduce the number of attacks not prevent them all.

]---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 ----------

Madness it is and I dare say very many ordinary people could see that. The truth is our glorious leaders haven't really wanted to listen, preferring instead to peddle the myth that it'd be OK and we'd all live happily ever after...

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Then they win,we lose.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Why? As I pointed out we don't and have never enjoyed total freedom. We've lived in a society in which our freedoms have been limited and often subject to change as in times of war and other crises. Our daily lives are already affected in all sorts of ways to reduce criminal behaviour, ensure safety, prevent antisocial behaviour etc. etc. etc. By that logic thieves have won because we have to lock our front doors and need a police service to protect us.

This is no different form what's always happened. Right now we face a serious threat and that demands our freedoms come under review. That's really nothing new and if we can break the back of the threat we face, there's no reason why some of the freedoms we might lose can't be restored as they have been in the past.

The terrorists win when we're all too frightened of being blown up to go out and we give in to their demands. Being subject to additional surveillance or security checks, for example, is a price but one which is worth paying in the circumstances IMHO.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Couple of thousand years ago, chap called Julius, remember him???

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

It's not just immigrants though. There are just suburbs they've frequently just left to themselves. Remember the riots they had 10 years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_riots?. One thing Governments will how to stop areas become cut off from society.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Here's the right message from the Muslim community:

Mod Edit:

Can I remind everyone about the CF T&Cs about linking to offensive videos,material etc..and about swearing.Thank you.

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Read his lips.
mother bookers!

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

RIP Diesel the Police dog :(

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6738826.html

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Listen to what he says. He says that if muslims in the west don't like the cartoons or when people insult islam they should move to get the laws changed to make that kind of thing illegal. If that doesn't work then those muslims should go and live in other countries. Seems reasonable but for one point, I don't want my laws changed to limit free speech & satire in order to make muslims feel better! :dozey:

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Suspected mastermind of the Paris attacks Abdelhamid Abaaoud was killed in a major police raid in Saint Denis on Wednesday, Paris prosecutor confirms.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34840858

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

Re: Paris shootings in November 2015
 

how did they find them so fast?