Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

which is not what happens and it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise .I went to church as a child simply because my parents did it was natural and i can assure you there was no forcing involved ,i don't bother now ,i am not that religious but never in my life have i ever been forced to either follow religion or not .Most religious families are as mine where ,they simply follow religion no one is forced to do anything and your continued implication that parents around the country are forcing children against their will shows a complete lack of understanding of what actually happens.


You make it sound as though children are being dragged kicking and screaming and tied into church pews ,you really have no idea do you .There is a very real difference in raising children in a particular manner or "forcing" them to do something but i would suggest that you already know that

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Just what I did with my two. I made it clear that they were and are free to follow their own course in regards to religion and that it is their choice to examine all beliefs and religions in a quest to seek some understanding of the universe.That just because I have one viewpoint does not make it the ONLY viewpoint.

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ----------

Just how different do you think atheists bring up their children compared to a couple who are religious?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You say all that and yet you want a secular education for everyone ,don't you see what's wrong with that ?


What seems clear to me is how intolerant some Atheists are ,especially on this forum .There is Sirius insisting he is being forced into following a religion because a jehovas witness knocked on his door ,Ignitionnet is of the belief that religious people are forcing their children into religion against their will and you want to deprive people of educational choice altogether ,not very tolerant at all

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Not really my definition of forcing themselves on me, unless their foot is in the way if the door when it's closed.

---------- Post added at 16:26 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

Bad move, they'll come back, never take their literature or engage then in conversation unless you want them to return at some point in my experience

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

You've rather gone beyond comedy now to be quite honest and I have no desire to engage further in whatever passes as a discussion. My IQ is dropping every time I read and respond and I'm nearing a vegetative state. I even went as far as reading the entire conversation thread just to try and understand how it got to this point.

When you get the chance please do read back on what I actually wrote, rather than what you think I wrote, and what I was responding to rather than what you think I was responding to. Remember putting this in bold:

Look at what I referenced, and while you're at it read a dictionary.

The kid had no choice but to abide by his parents' beliefs, hence they were forced on him. It's really quite abundantly simple to most, apart apparently from those who suspend all logic when it comes to religion which admittedly can come with the territory to an extent.

EDIT: Incidentally I don't think there are religious people forcing children into religion against their will, I know there are. The kids aren't offered any alternative. This obviously doesn't apply to all religious people, that'd be an absurd generalisation along the lines of claiming:

In response to the statement:

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Parents force children into all sorts of things, every single day of the week, with good reason and with no ill effects. On the contrary, ill effects would often be the consequence of not asserting parental will over a child's.

I suspect Marty's objection stems from your decision to make a special case out of religious belief.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

The post in question discussed a decision stemming from religious beliefs, I'm not sure what else I could have responded to, it was the only thing a parent forced a child to do mentioned in the thread?

Had that been his objection perhaps he would've been better served to state that rather than the frankly bizarre objection the man actually raised.

What you say is, of course, entirely accurate.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Thank you Chris ,the use of the word 'force' and it's negative connotations is very objectionable imo .In the context of this discussion it is being used as a negative and something religious parents should be ashamed of

---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------

Maybe you should use that massive IQ of yours and re read the thread .

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

They are not forcing anything on you.

If you object to them (and anyone else) knocking your door without invitation, legitimate purpose as part of their job you put up a sign saying as the homeowner/occupier you remove all implied right of access to anyone who does not have permission to be on your property.

If they or anybody else ignores that you have a valid case for trespass.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:01 ----------

On the subject of parents "imposing" or "forcing" their children in to a particular belief.

I've always said a religion or faith should be a personal choice. You cannot be made to believe anything, you simply decide for yourself whether or not it feels right. Yes people can try to influence you but the decision about whether it becomes 'part' of your life is down to the individual. And this is why I disagree with the way some religions (for example Catholicism) have the parents deciding that the child 'is' part of it. I was brought up as a Catholic, my parents made that decision for me however I got to a certain age and realised I didn't have a say in whether or I believed.

At no point am I ever going to say people shouldn't bring their children up that way, I simply disagree with it.

However as parents we have the absolute right and expectation to bring our children up the best way as we see fit. If I decide it's in my child's best interests to bring him/her up in a Christian lifestyle then no amount of New Atheist/Anti Religionist tripe is going to stop me.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If someone comes your house to try and tell you what you believe is wrong and you should believe what they believe that is them trying to FORCE their beliefs on to you.

Parents should allow them to explore there own reliefs but if parents raise them by their beliefs then that's FORCING them.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

If they come to your house they are not forcing anything - you have given an implied right of access unless you have stated otherwise. In any case I've never heard of anyone having someone come to their door and telling them their beliefs are "wrong". That sounds more like a stereotype used by anti-religionists.

If they come in your house they cannot be accused of forcing anything on you.

If a child is being brought up to be a Manchester United fan are the parents 'forcing' that on them? If not where do you draw the line?

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

Is there a difference between forcing and encouraging at such a low age?

I believe RE is a good thing to get some kind of knowledge of religion but they should keep religion out of schools.

I'm all for banning children from religion till a certain age. It'll never happen but just my opinion.

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

they are polar opposites ,one implies a degree of ill will towards the child ,the other is a gentle push towards a way of thinking

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

It should be covered under history lessons in my opinion. There is not a single reason why religion should have its own lessons. Another option is to replace RE lessons with a Morality, culture, world/life observations and philosophy type combined lesson

Re: 'Muslim Plot' To Take Over Schools Investigated
 

What if the child wants that religion?

Of course there is. To educate about religions.