Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136482)

The "mini fiscal event" - the gift that keeps on giving…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-...5Bpost+type%5D



update

https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/statu...mUQzgbBGowDpgw



Well, that should restore the Markets' confidence...

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36135362)

At last, a sane voice. You have to admire the left for organising such a United front against these measures. These measures are exactly what is needed.

All this crap about everyone struggling to pay their bills, flocking to Aldi, etc. Well, I’m a pensioner myself, I’ve not changed my habits and my supermarket bills end up much the same as normal months. Although my fuel bill went up in April, I’ve now had a monthly £66 government rebate on my bill, not to mention the subsidy already paid out by the government.

Granted, the very poorest can’t pay more as they have nothing to pay with, but they have been helped at every turn by this Conservative government, which the left wantonly ignore to make it look as though they have been abandoned.

The fiscal measures are needed to turn the economy around. The only legitimate criticism that exists is that the detailed plan to pay off the debt has not been made available and the OBR has not been allowed to review it. Well, given that the people of this country needed their subsidy now, there was no time to lose in getting it out there. The government has not finalised the detailed plan to pay off the debt, although they know how to achieve it, and that plan will be forthcoming when it is complete in November. The OBR can then study it to its heart’s content.

The markets have reacted badly owing to the lack of detail, but they will get over it and things will return to normal.

Liz Truss has less than two years to prove what she’s made of and that her radical plans are robust. She is a woman on a mission, and she ain’t gonna hang around.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36135364)

Except that there will be spending cuts, that has already been made clear. The Civil Service is to be cut down, saving salaries and building costs. Those quangos still need extinguishing where they are not providing essential services as well.

It has been made clear also the the planning rules are to be streamlined to assist companies to build things faster. The Brexit benefits have not yet been tapped into and we will have a bonfire of the EU regulations that have been holding us back as well.

The increased growth from a whole raft of measures including those already outlined in brief will help us pay off the debt.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36135458)

Because he is a hypocrite; he has in the past sold the UK out when pretending he is all about Brexit Britain and now he is wheeled out to gaslight us, trying to convince us the sky is green, really?

He is yesterday's politician, desperately trying to be relevant in today's world and failing miserably. His time is over, he just needs to accept this and move back into obscurity.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36135560)

:rofl:

Rubbish Old Boy, worse than your usual. There’s one side to this debate and one only. Truss is free wheeling the economy into chaos and you think it’s alright because some work experience kid wrote a policy paper for a think tank once. :rofl:

If anyone is going to break established groupthink of the macroeconomic world I can absolutely assure you it will not be Liz Truss :rofl:

By hysterical reaction I assume you mean those funds worth billions betting against the UK to the extent we have to print money to bet against them? Surely you of all people should admire their entrepreneurial spirit. :rofl:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36136500)

Is this true?
If so, how is this allowed? Baffled ..

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136504)

He may have forgotten to register it, starmer does it regularly.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136505)

Well done for todays whataboutery.:)

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136505)

Well done for todays whataboutery.:)

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136507)

But in his defence he only did it 8 times

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-of-interests

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136505)

Well done for todays whataboutery.:)

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136509)

They are all as bad as each other....

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136509)

Again as in other threads this is not whataboutery it's identifying that it's a cross party issue. ;)

They are all as bad as each other....

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136509)

Again as in other threads this is not whataboutery it's identifying that it's a cross party issue. ;)

They are all as bad as each other....

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36136510)

That's a truism but who's best to run the economy: The Tory ferrets fighting in a bag or the rabble alliance under capt. Hindsight.

We deserve better than this .:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136514)

The Conservatives wholly own this mess.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136514)

Given the Conservatives have been the governing party for the last 12 years to suggest the other political parties are just as bad is very much a weak straw man argument.

The Conservatives wholly own this mess.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36136516)

Slight amendment Den, the Tories and those that keep voting for them regardless own this mess.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136514)

Given the Conservatives have been the governing party for the last 12 years to suggest the other political parties are just as bad is very much a weak straw man argument.

The Conservatives wholly own this mess.

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136519)

Totally agree.

But don't imagine for one minute that the lying, hypocritical, fence sitting, racist labour party under starmer would be any better.

They need a new leader or the country will be screwed for years.

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136519)

Totally agree.

But don't imagine for one minute that the lying, hypocritical, fence sitting, racist labour party under starmer would be any better.

They need a new leader or the country will be screwed for years.

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136519)

Totally agree.

But don't imagine for one minute that the lying, hypocritical, fence sitting, racist labour party under starmer would be any better.

They need a new leader or the country will be screwed for years.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36136500)

Is this true?

If so, how is this allowed? Baffled ..

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136509)

They are all as bad as each other....

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36136510)

That's a truism but who's best to run the economy: The Tory ferrets fighting in a bag or the rabble alliance under capt. Hindsight.

We deserve better than this .:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36136519)

Totally agree.

But don't imagine for one minute that the lying, hypocritical, fence sitting, racist labour party under starmer would be any better.

They need a new leader or the country will be screwed for years.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36136535)

Good summary of the dilemma faced by Kwarteng and Truss.

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1579901975768203265

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136532)

The Bank of England have confirmed they'll stop intervening to buy government debt on Friday which has sent the pound falling again.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36136545)

More bad news on the economic front - the economy shrank by 0.3% in August.
https://news.sky.com/story/economy-c...-show-12718139

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136546)

If they do a total reversal then that also destroys their credibility. Truss spent the entire campaign promising tax cuts without big spending cuts and using borrowing instead and called Sunak a doom monger for saying this would spike interest rates and borrowing costs.

It's the right thing to do but how can Truss continue after that?

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136546)

If they do a total reversal then that also destroys their credibility. Truss spent the entire campaign promising tax cuts without big spending cuts and using borrowing instead and called Sunak a doom monger for saying this would spike interest rates and borrowing costs.

It's the right thing to do but how can Truss continue after that?

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136547)

Have you worked out how to blame Truss yet

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136550)

He does not need to as you have obviously have not worked out that Liz Truss has shot her own credibility without help from others.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136547)

Have you worked out how to blame Truss yet

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136574)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/200790...spending-cuts/



I’m no expert, but shouldn’t the Chancellor look at the impact assessment and forecast before announcing his plan to the markets/world?

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136574)

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/200790...spending-cuts/



I’m no expert, but shouldn’t the Chancellor look at the impact assessment and forecast before announcing his plan to the markets/world?

Originally Posted by Ken W (Post 36136577)

That is what I thought.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36136576)

PMQs on now peeps!

Truss has ruled out public spending cutsin response to a question from Starmer. Obviously, if spending is not increased in line with inflation, there will be effective cuts.

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136580)

That he's no expert?

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36136580)

That he's no expert?

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136582)

So if Liz Truss is completely ruling out spending cuts despite the experts saying she needs to slash £60 billion to pay for her massive, unfunded tax cut.

l am no expert but this does not end well.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136582)

So if Liz Truss is completely ruling out spending cuts despite the experts saying she needs to slash £60 billion to pay for her massive, unfunded tax cut.

l am no expert but this does not end well.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36136583)

Seems fairly unequivocal…

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136594)

If being pedantic I suppose when inflation is running as high as it is simply maintaining spending at current levels represents a significant cut in real terms.

Do that for a number of years and it’s a substantial amount. If you acknowledge that public sector wages and benefits will increase by something, even if less than inflation, you are still looking at massive cuts elsewhere to pay for it.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136644)

dismissed any suggestion this wouldn't work (from Sunak) as doom-mongering

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136644)

This entire balls up convinces me further that the main political parties should not select their leaders using their membership at all. The MPs have a wider and more representative mandate but Labour and the Tories then leave the final choice to a narrow bunch of wackos.

Truss won the membership by cosplaying as Thatcher and promising the earth to them and she, and they, dismissed any suggestion this wouldn't work from Sunak as doom-mongering. Now the consequences happened and they've taken us all down with them.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136644)

This entire balls up convinces me further that the main political parties should not select their leaders using their membership at all. The MPs have a wider and more representative mandate but Labour and the Tories then leave the final choice to a narrow bunch of wackos.

Truss won the membership by cosplaying as Thatcher and promising the earth to them and she, and they, dismissed any suggestion this wouldn't work from Sunak as doom-mongering. Now the consequences happened and they've taken us all down with them.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136648)

I was really disappointed Ben Wallace, didn’t enter race.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36136646)

Remind you of anything? Same idiots, same story ..

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136648)

I was really disappointed Ben Wallace, didn’t enter race.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136663)

BREAKING: Sky News understands that there are current discussions in 10 Downing Street to scrap parts of the Mini Budget. - Sky News.

You cannot make this shit up. Tories are FUBAR! (And that’s coming from one!)

I now declare myself politically homeless.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36136668)

The BBC says 'Downing Street insists no more U-turns on mini-budget'. Followed by 'Pound jumps on rumours of mini-budget U-turn'. You can't make it up.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136663)

BREAKING: Sky News understands that there are current discussions in 10 Downing Street to scrap parts of the Mini Budget. - Sky News.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1665662142

You cannot make this shit up. Tories are FUBAR! (And that’s coming from one!)

I now declare myself politically homeless.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136670)

Nicholas Watt from Newsnight has just said this from the mouth of a Tory MP and that is get braced for the mother of all U-Turns.

Originally Posted by peanut (Post 36136668)

The BBC says 'Downing Street insists no more U-turns on mini-budget'. Followed by 'Pound jumps on rumours of mini-budget U-turn'. You can't make it up.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136674)

Ah so it is true then

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Anyway she'll try to pin it on Kwasi Kwarteng, he's probably gone

---------- Post added at 13:54 ---------- Previous post was at 13:17 ----------

BTW This must have leaked somewhere as the markets started recovering about 30 mins before Sky reported it...

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136682)

Only my opinion but l would say Liz Truss is a culpable as Kwasi Kwarteng.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136663)

I now declare myself politically homeless.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36136713)

The Green Party Mick? I'm sure there's a tree hugger inside you somewhere. Trees are our friends, and would run the Country better :)

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36136722)

You don't think they'd be a bit wooden personality wise?

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36136722)

You don't think they'd be a bit wooden personality wise?

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36136726)

People voting for 'personalties' and 'charisma' is where it all went wrong. Blame politicians all you want, the buck stops with the electorate. They were warned, but chose to vote for the current muppets.
(True you can't blame them for Dizzy Lizzy as they didn't get a say, such is our 'democracy', but she's just a symptom of where we've ended up of folks not doing 'thinking' when they vote).

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136731)

I don't understand why they're dragging this out so painfully. It seems they know they have to u-turn but they are just letting the story drag on for days and weeks before doing so, making the story even more damaging.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36136731)

I don't understand why they're dragging this out so painfully. It seems they know they have to u-turn but they are just letting the story drag on for days and weeks before doing so, making the story even more damaging.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136737)

NEW: Senior Tory plot to install Rishi and Penny as caretaker Leaders, reports tomorrow’s Times Newspaper.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136737)

NEW: Senior Tory plot to install Rishi and Penny as caretaker Leaders, reports tomorrow’s Times Newspaper:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1665697476

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36136737)

NEW: Senior Tory plot to install Rishi and Penny as caretaker Leaders, reports tomorrow’s Times Newspaper:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1665697476

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136725)

I’m wondering how not having the courage of your convictions rebuilds reputations in a party with more snakes than a left leaning forum. Have a nice life y’all!

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36136742)

The papers love a 'plot' !

So not even Con party members get to elect our next PM, they like the electorate can't be trusted anymore. Just a few MPs get to decide.
Our 'democracy' gets worse by the day.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136750)

They are damaged beyond repair and the most ominous thing is we got two more years before the next general election and another possible unelected leader in the process if some Tories in their party get their way..

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36136757)

The UK electoral system, funding by trade unions/wealthy individuals, party infrastructure and brand loyalty will ensure the Conservative and Labour Parties are both around for a long time.

That being said, I would anticipate it being a couple of Labour terms before the Conservative Party is fighting fit again.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136758)

Ultimately we need to break the two party system. Unthinkable for those with a penchant for British exceptionalism, but PR is the way to do it.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36136758)

Ultimately we need to break the two party system. Unthinkable for those with a penchant for British exceptionalism, but PR is the way to do it.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136762)

But we have been talking abour PR for as long as l can remember as personally l cannot see it ever happening with both major parties having a vested interest in keeping the 2 party system which suits them best.

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36136762)

But we have been talking abour PR for as long as l can remember as personally l cannot see it ever happening with both major parties having a vested interest in keeping the 2 party system which suits them best.