Re: The energy crisis
 

There seems to be two choices, spend billions giving us handouts, or spend billions on buying the suppliers, and then more billions reducing the price we pay.
This assumes the actual gas/electricity will still cost the same for the suppliers to buy, regardless of who owns them. The second option sounds more expensive.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Lots of words but not saying very much. So the question, unsurprisingly still remains. How would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Why is it down to him to offer a solution, I know the government has abrogated all responsibility for at least a month but why is it up to him to provide answers

Re: The energy crisis
 

Very quick to pick fault and dismiss suggestions and opinions of others but not offering anything of any substance himself. The truth is I don't think he's got any suggestions that would stand up to scrutiny.

As I've said before we shouldn't have squandered our national resources but maybe it's not too late to set up a sovereign wealth fund. Selling every asset the country has is a very short sighted approach and if nothing else we should learn that making a profit out of a public service shouldn't be the be all and end all. Make a profit yes, but let the country as a whole benefit from the profit. Other countries have state owner oil and gas sectors and not all of them have turned out like Venezuela.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2...fa906ca19dc7c0

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...able-jfx2n2gsj

Re: The energy crisis
 

Doesnt matter if he does or does not, it doesnt make his points wrong.

There is no "magic" answer.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Buy the suppliers and develop the means of production in the national interest. Prices stay high if you buy intermediate actors and simply play the market game at an international level.

We need to do the things the private sector won’t do - actually satisfy demand removing the price premiums. Wind farms, nuclear reactors, you name it.

The problem for the Tories is if the public see this as the way forward for energy what next? Water? Exorbitant costs to have hundreds of thousands of tons of human waste released into rivers and the sea? Telecommunications? Railways?

None of these sectors are genuinely competitive marketplaces as understood in economic theory. Nobody can enter these markets easily without significant investment. Meaning incumbents can continue to price gouge end users.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This and only this. The national infrastructure is not a fit for free market dogma how ever much the zealots will claim. Square peg in round hole. I am surprised that it has taken so long to get this on the national agenda. Trying to to argue how the energy free market sector can work is like arguing how many angels can fir on the head of a pin. There is no point.

Nationalise the sector. Employ the best management, paid at fair free market rates and invest for the long term. It is not rocket science.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Couldn't agree more, except I'd include the water industry too as they don't seem to have learnt the lesson from a few years ago when we had a shortage due to excessive leaks.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You know they only have to cut leaks by 16% for ofwat to be happy, water is the worst example of privatisation imo, 2 billion a year in dividends, companies loaded with debt and bugger all done to replace the infrastructure hence 2.4 billion litres of water lost a day

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not quite sure how any of all that lowers the price of gas and other energy that comes from outside of the UK.
The biggest problem with infrastructure products is the ridiculous amount of time the planning permission process takes. Eg Thames Water have been trying to get permission for creating a new reservoir for over 10 years.
The UK has become too much of an undesirable place to do business(nothing to do with Brexit). Just look at all the nasty attention, individuals and businesses get from the media and the public. If I had a great business or technological idea, I wouldn't want to set up in the UK. Too much anti-success sentiment. It's been like that for decades.
It you're not trashed by the media and the public, you get trashed by taxes and over regulation, which adds to business costs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Another meaningless, arbitrary distinction created for no other reason than a diversionary tactic. Nobody claims nationalised industries would solely operate on the international markets - indeed it’d entirely defeat the point.

Anti success sentiment :rofl: these aren’t entrepreneurs coming up with exciting new ideas. They’ve bought the family silver and charging you just to have a look at it through the window.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Agree with you on planning permission but the Conservative Party who have governed the country for the last 12 years are sympathetic to NIMBYS and make it hard for onshore wind turbines - the cheapest form of electricity. In their defence, it's a small country.

Private energy companies tend not to invest in long-term infrastructure and energy is a long-term business.

If you're overly-concerned about what people think of you, you're unlikely to be a successful entrepreneur. I don't think the UK is anti-success. The grass next door is not always greener.

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

I would say it's worse than power. Power is more complicated with hedging and forward purchasing of energy, a complicated supply chain, plus switching suppliers, smart meters, an array of charging structures etc.

Water is a lot less complex and is a monopoly at regional level. To not get the basics right here is appalling. In my area, for example, there's a Thames Water leak that's been ongoing for at least three weeks impacting households' water supplies as well as blocking the road and being wasteful.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The UK has not built a new reservoir for over 30 years and in that time the population has risen by around 10 million people.

Add all the excessive ongoing leaks and is it any wonder we have a escalating water shortage.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16...ht-latest-news

Re: The energy crisis
 

Because Ofwat pressured them to do so.:rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not sure what the roll-eyes are about.

In most businesses, if you retire old systems/facilities/equipment, you tend to replace them with new to ensure resilience, continuity, capacity, and delivery - you don’t just get rid of the old stuff…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Except they are not being allowed to build new ones.

Re: The energy crisis
 

At least higher energy and food prices his will make people a bit more careful about their energy and food consumption. . If we don't stop being so consumerist and generating so much waste, then prices will be the very the least of our worries.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Mail Online

Re: The energy crisis
 

But they have closed ones that could be used to ease the problem

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environm...eased-drought/

Re: The energy crisis
 

While I have no desire to defend the water companies (who more than any other private utility have what amounts to a licence to print money), a bald ‘number of reservoirs sold’ doesn’t tell us much.

As the article is behind a paywall I can’t see whether it reveals useful metrics like total cubic capacity lost in the sale, or reasons given for the sales such as reservoir no longer in a strategically useful location, life-expired components being prohibitively expensive to replace, etc.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They closed small ones, and were pressured by the regulator to do so, in order to keep prices lower.

---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------

Starmer will be claiming we can tax those profits.

Re: The energy crisis
 

France has capped prices by renationalising the part of EDF it did not own. We've also nationalised Bulb and subsidised prices. Investment requires money to pay for it but you get some kind of return. We're not getting that currently through our interventions.

As I've previously argued, we should have replaced coal fired capacity with alternatives when they were decommissioned but failing that we need more power generation now.

Fracked gas is sold at global prices so that doesn't reduce prices and it still contributes to the climate change crisis.

All sources have their disadvantages. Nuclear power is struggling at the moment, (just look at France both in inability to deliver new projects and issues in operating during hot summers), better storage is needed for renewables and we know the story on gas. But doing nothing and waiting for the markets to solve it is not an option.

In terms of electricity generation, I think you need to look at sources on a quarterly basis not a daily one to get a more representative figure
Ofgen states for Q1 2022:
Gas 27.45%
Wind and solar 26.49%
Nuclear 11.34%
Bio 8.46%
Net imports 4.94%
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-data...created&page=4

Re: The energy crisis
 

Doesn't matter what any longer period figures say, it still represents the generating capacity you need at this point in time. At this point in time, you need 49% gas generated. In winter you are going to have less solar. The claim was that we should've invested in other than gas. Today's figures show it couldn't be done, as Germany itself found out.
Where would today's missing 22%(compared to Q1 figures) have come from instead?
Fracking gas in the UK, would increased supply, thereby reducing market prices.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Fracking gas in the UK would provide a miniscule amount of gas such that global prices would not be impacted.

Q1 is in the winter so another quarter would have more solar. You can't look on a daily basis for energy generation.

Today's figures don't show that a shift to more renewables, storage and nuclear cannot be done.

We need to get on with it for the sake of future generations let alone ourselves.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Of course you can, thats exactly what the national grid has to do, every day.
No one can run their devices on electricity promised in the future, you need it now.
A shortfall now means something has to give, or it has to be 'imported' from elsewhere.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Well estimates do vary somewhat, but none are 'miniscule'.
https://www.lse.ac.uk/granthaminstit...ere-in-the-uk/

Most of the recent esimates are around 4 trillion cubic meters.
The UK [domestic] requirement is 70 - 80 billion cubic meters.
So it could keep the whole UK supplied for around 40 - 50 years.

Another report (further down) calculated that UK production of shale gas could meet between 17 and 22 per cent of UK cumulative consumption between 2020 and 2050 (That I presume includes non domestic use). Again, not really "miniscule".

Re: The energy crisis
 

Providing 17-22% of UK gas needs, isn't so miniscule.
Still wondering where the shortage is, and who is doing without.

9% solar today may look good, but come winter with shorter days and cloudy skies, it's not going to reach 9%. That is another gap to fill. If you don't have gas for electricity. you are could be looking at a 60% shortfall in winter. So what viable alternatives are there for not having gas generated electricity?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Strange. It is not paywalled for me. Here's the same story from the Express. Note, both outlets are staunch Tory supporters

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/16...ht-latest-news

You also have the Google cache to peruse: https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Re: The energy crisis
 

What's a more accurate representation of where the UK's electricity generation comes from? One day in the middle of a heat wave or an average of three months? That was my point to Nomadking.

Yup, estimates for fracking gas in the UK vary considerably but everything I've read says even the most optimistic outputs won't be enough to impact global prices. Just because it might be sourced from the UK does not mean it will be sold here. I think it can also be safely ruled out as a UK energy source, no mainstream political party in the UK supports it, it's a pipe dream.

---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------

It's a case of getting on with what I've said before - renewables, storage and nuclear. And probably more insulation. The energy regulator will determine which are viable but doing nothing is not an option. Nor can global warming be forgotten too.

Re: The energy crisis
 

One day in the middle of a heatwave is as good as any other day (perhaps even better).
Averages are great for pretty stats, but in reality, you need to know you can handle maximum demand, not average demand.

No, you cannot "safely" rule it out. The parties may not have supported it when we had plentiful [cheapish] supplies elsewhere, but that situation has changed for the [much] worse - if "needs must", it will start to happen.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Absolutely, one-day splits are useful for the context you describe. I was discussing the split of electricity generation with Nomad at a strategic level. In this context, one day doesn't give an accurate representation of the different types of power generation as a power station could be offline or a connector down.

I'm ruling fracking out as:
- It's likely not going to be any cheaper than existing gas
- there are significant concerns about the risk of subsidence so unpopular with the public
- planning consent is problematical.
- it doesn't tick the renewables box

I'm aware that Truss now supports it but she can't change the economics. She's added the rider that local people must support it. Which they've not done to date due to subsidence risks.
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/to...acking-1765010

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's not just us householders who are suffering. This caller tells Eddie Mair of a decision to close a UK sea food business losing 900 jobs in the UK and move it to the Netherlands as it cannot operate with 260% energy price rises nor can it pass them on. It's already absorbed a 40% rise and Brexit red tape costs but to survive it must move.

The Netherlands has a 5% energy price cap which the business can absorb. This is another reason why we need action now, not in September.
https://twitter.com/g_gosden/status/1559242405219647490

Re: The energy crisis
 

Stop being alarmist, Andrew. You do realise that the new PM will be in office in less than three weeks, don’t you?

Whatever people say, we are not getting any decisions before that. The options available to the PM are still being drawn up. Liz is not going to be one to splash the cash like Moneytrees Starmer. Any help to individuals and businesses will be properly targeted so that we are not benefiting those that don’t need it.

Re: The energy crisis
 

:rofl:

It must be nice with your feet up Old Boy but out there in the real world your delusions won’t pay the bills for individuals and businesses that need support now.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The figures may be from last year, but the UK gas prices come out favourably, compared to EU countries. Only 7 countries cheaper.
Link

Sweden, Netherlands, and Portugal are all more than twice the UK cost. France is 69% more, Germany 60% more.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Next time I'm out in the DeLorean I'll take some comfort in that.

Re: The energy crisis
 

So what are the current non-taxpayer subsidised prices?
20 EU countries paying more than the UK. Hardly a sign the UK is being ripped off.

Re: The energy crisis
 

A year is a long time in energy prices and the new UK price cap will be announced next Friday.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Unsure of the relevance to the end user who can't afford it or collapsing business is to be fair.

The fact that there's large scale taxpayer subsidy universally supports the fact the market has failed. I'm surprised you see that as a "gotcha" moment against others who argue for greater state involvement in markets that are blatantly not competitive.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They are already getting support now. The increased price cap is for October.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

Russia has failed the world. They were trusted to ensure continuity of supply and we did business with them.

The markets have reacted appropriately by increasing prices to reflect increased demand. How people who can't afford it are helped is a matter for governments.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Interesting read from CNN about how we got here, and how that compares to Europe.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/19/e...ner/index.html

Re: The energy crisis
 

Always someone else to blame, eh, OB. Who’d have thought putting our energy security in the hands of a KGB agent who rigs the constitution so he can become a de-facto dictator would have gone so badly? :rofl:

The problem lies right here. In fact, go and look in the mirror and it’s staring you back in the face. People like you who fell for conservative ideology that the state should have no role and the markets will satisfy our every needs. It was hardly unpredictable that capitalist actors would seek to rinse us for all we’ve got.

Re: The energy crisis
 

What about small businesses?

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...g-energy-bills

Even the most pro-Russian of politicians would find it hard to acknowledge Russia was anything but untrustworthy after its invasion of Ukraine back in 2014. But I didn't see the UK seeking to mitigate this risk by building more nuclear power stations or increasing our gas storage in reaction to this. In fact, we continued to decommission nuclear power stations and reduce our gas storage.

Placing your country's energy needs in the hands of global energy markets puts you in the hands of geopolitical troubles. It's an approach which has failed the country and the flawed UK energy market needs reforming.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The government doesn't seem to want to match the universal help with energy bills and instead make you go to the Doctor to get money off:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/19569...-energy-bills/

They've lost the plot entirely.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That’s a really good idea - luckily, it’s very easy to get an appointment at a GPs now, and no one has forecast that the NHS will be under additional pressure his winter…

Re: The energy crisis
 

That will never go though

Re: The energy crisis
 

I thought you were better than to fall for nonsense like that.

Its just one of many "ideas" from boffins, not the government.
They always come up with some barmy ideas as well as reasonable ones.

Typical of the Sun to pick up on it and try and promote is as a serious option.
It clearly nuts and no government would seriously propose using such an option.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This sounds like policy wonks doing what they’re paid to do and coming up with options for ministers to choose from. The fact it’s on the menu doesn’t mean it’s likely to be taken forward. The fact we’re reading about it is of more concern than the fact it’s been suggested. Civil servants should have freedom to brainstorm without half-formed ideas being leaked by indisciplined junior ministers and picked apart in the Press.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I agree. Surely, the simplest means of targeting direct financial help to the most in need is through Universal Credit.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That is not the case at all due to the fact not everyone has been moved from legacy benefits yet. Those of us on said benefits missed out on the £20 per week uplift during the pandemic due to it being "too complicated" to include us. It most certainly would not be fair to do that again

Re: The energy crisis
 

Pensioners? Not to mention those on low incomes with earnings marginally above the threshold. Is it any wonder we have a lazy workforce we don’t make work rewarding? What about those small business owners who can’t pay their bills with entrepreneurial spirit?

Re: The energy crisis
 

If only the gov made some effort to close the tax gap, the £35 billion could make quite a difference about now.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Mogg’s private equity firm will be out there foaming at the mouths at the prospect. After all disaster capitalism and potential for supernormal profits on investments at this scale is usually once or twice in a generation.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I can see a new 'please work from home and use your leccy' drive....

Workers might insist on working and sleeping in offices over winter, or being paid a supplement to wfh.

Re: The energy crisis
 

There's been three once-in-a-lifetime opportunities of late - the energy crisis plus the two ids of Brexit and Covid.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The downside to the undue influence the financial sector has over the economy. We are ready to bail them out to the tune of tens of billions on every gamble gone wrong yet their massive successes are often when the rest of the economy flails.

Re: The energy crisis
 

With higher fuel costs impacting an already challenged manufacturing sector, the financial services sector is set to play a larger role in the UK economy.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RHzqZx_vPI

We need to re-nationalise energy, Water and the Railway system.

Until we do that, we are always going to be subsidising people in foreign companies instead of helping ourselves.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are higher energy really bills the best way to pay for bailing out the energy sector?
https://www.ft.com/content/cbe1c23e-...d-58065802c53e

Re: The energy crisis
 

In what way did any of our nationalised industries perform better than the privatised industries?

Re: The energy crisis
 

:rofl:

Red herring alert.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Not really. If you are clamouring for re-nationalisation, I think we need to know, based on our experience of nationalised industries, why that would be preferable to what we have now.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Given 30 years of technological innovation and "investment" (no laughing at the back) the expectation would be that one would outperform the other. Yet it's not the case. Energy costs are completely disassociated from the cost of production. Private industry cannot increase supply and react to market forces - therefore its not a market in any meaningful sense.

Why would we exclude worldwide experiences? I don't believe in British exceptionalism any more than you do with your attacks on our workers.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Its a red herring becasue you disagree ? Not really ....

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well I think LNER is doing ok since it became state owned again.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's a red herring because it's an irrelevant distraction.

With privatisation considered a goal many industries were underfunded in their latter years, plus the previously mentioned decades of innovation between then and now.

Alternative successful models can be seen in countries genuinely interested in making a success of them, without being blinded by the blinkers of 4 decades of failed economic policy.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I guess for every rule, there’s an exception… ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

So because it might not have gone well in some industries in the past it can't work now in any sector?

Its working great for other countries and they are subsidising it by making profit abroad.

When so much profit is being made it could easily be run the same without profit and decrease our costs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Re: The energy crisis
 

Four decades of failed economic policy ?
On what do you base that, or did you just make it up ?

Four decades covers multiple Labour, Conservative and Coalition governments.
There were many years of enonomic boom during that time (and some bad years as well).

Re: The energy crisis
 

jfman just likes to trash the Tories, while conveniently forgetting all the other bad times with other parties. Perhaps he’d like to tell the SNP to get the overflowing bins sorted in Edinburgh right about now?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Can you name a good privatised train operator?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Indeed it covers multiple governments of varying colours. Economic boom doesn't exempt those periods from being part of a failure too if it's not matched by rising wages and living standards across the board. If economic success looks like our decimated town centres of bookies, pound shops, charity shops and rough sleepers I'd hate to see what failure looks like.

I'm not making a party political point despite what Mick believes, I don't view politics the same way I support a football team.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

Dear Snp, if you read cable forum can you get the Labour minority run Edinburgh council (propped up by the Tories and Lib Dems) to sort out the bins. Thanks. Jfman

Done. And it didn't solve the energy crisis.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Don’t get flippant with me. The Herald ran a story urging SNP to step in to solve the crisis to prevent it becoming a national embarrassment, so it is still their (SNP’s) problem. :rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are the Tories stepping into local government disputes England? Or are things simply that bad down there it wouldn't class as a national embarrassment?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are there local government disputes to the same magnitude of overflowing bins in Edinburgh, caused by Strikes?

Overflowing bins full of rotting food is a health hazard, not to mention a frigging eye sore.

Still a SNP problem, but you can’t bring yourself to trash your pathetic party, can you? :rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

I'm not in the SNP so I don't really associate myself with the compelling urge to defend and deflect from their inadequacies in the way you do with the Tories.

In an independent Scotland with the macroeconomic levers to intervene in the energy market, on inflation, and with borrowing powers I probably wouldn't vote for the SNP.

I welcome overflowing bins though. Nothing puts the great in Great Britain more than poor public services, half the country in fuel poverty and shit flowing in the seas.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m eagerly awaiting the autumn TV schedules. Perhaps now’s the time to bring back It Ain’t Half Hot Mum and Til Death Us Do Part.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don’t defend the Tories, actually, another ridiculous accusation from you, yeah it’s a party I support, will vote for, but it absolutely has issues that it must address with the nation.

I challenge your views because you only appear to Tory bash, when other parties are just as shit for something.

You still need to watch your flippancy btw. :nono:

Re: The energy crisis
 

During the boom times we should have been investing and saving but we just spent and spent not always wisely. We raised our lifestyles too far, nothing wrong with a bit of increase with wage rises but we had far too much excess.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Where would the investment come from if industries re re-nationalised. It didn’t work before, so what’s changed?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Same place the bail outs come from when private companies that are "too big to fail" inevitably do.

You seem to be under the false impression that investment comes from the private sector rather than recognise the parasitic nature of it. It's the end users - customers - funding the minimalistic investment and high dividends.

Hugh linked to a story this morning comparing the dividend payments to investment in to to the water industry.

I am hugely entertained by the implication that the energy market is working. Dare I ask, who for?

Re: The energy crisis
 

The boom times are like 20 years ago now though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

From Santander:

Re: The energy crisis
 

2% for 2 months , that"s big of them !

Re: The energy crisis
 

And:
- The Twilight Zone
- Desperate Housewives

Re: The energy crisis
 

Doesn't Santander cap each cashback category at £5 per month anyway though? I can't imagine it will help too many people given current prices.

Re: The energy crisis
 

They have raised the cap to £10.
However, I think the accounts also have a monthly fee.

Re: The energy crisis
 

£4 for my 123 account and you only get interest on your first £20,000 and nothing for the rest.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well I dont think a 20,000 limit would be an issue for most people (inc me).
Plus you could just put anything over that in a savings account, the rates on them keep rising atm (not as fast as inflation though).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Just a reminder that the next price cap will be announced tomorrow.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It’s not effective from tomorrow though is it?

So plenty of time to prepare. 😉

Re: The energy crisis
 

Are you saying prices don't rise from tomorrow, I can't get my head around this stuff

Re: The energy crisis
 

If you're on a variable rate then they come into effect on 1 October. If you're on a fixed price deal as I believe most people are, then worth remembering that nothing alters until that contract comes to an end.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yup so before 1/10 even our most incompetent government will have to do something to stop the sudden rises.
They do have previous for throwing seemingly unlimited amounts of money at people.
Personally I am not in favour of anyone getting piles of money to spend on whatever they want.
Reducing the price of the cause of the problem is much better.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Also worth remembering that October is the month that businesses renegotiate their energy contracts. Cornwall Insight's analysis shows that businesses will have to pay more than four times the price they paid for their electricity in 2020. This is the data behind the claims that certain sectors eg fish and chip shops will be severely impacted.

---------- Post added at 10:18 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

The cause is the UK's dependence on world energy markets through lack of home grown energy generation. It's not a problem that can be solved very quickly.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I went to see my friend yesterday, prior to last week he had a land lord installed coin electric meter in his flat, now he has one of these https://www.topupmeters.co.uk/ installed by his landlord, will he get the £400 pound discount, there are 7 flats with these meters that are satellites of the main meter for the building.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Agreed but what I was referring to is the price rises from 1/10.

Do not give people handouts to pay the power bills.
Reduce the bills.