Re: Coronavirus
 

From jonbxx’s post above That’s the equivalent of two or three peoples’ weight - need a lot of planes to get 50 million doses grown into the country...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do the IATA limits apply to military aircraft?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unlikely.

If it comes to it the RAF can be tasked with the job.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good question! I have searched and haven't found anything. That said, the hazard from dry ice exists regardless of whether it's a civilian or military aircraft and lack of temperature control might be sticky when it comes to Good Distribution Practice (GDP) regulations.

Lots of regulatory hoops to jump through with pharmaceuticals! Certainly not insurmountable but need to be considered ahead of time...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Put it on the Eurostar. They won't be too busy for the next few months.

Re: Coronavirus
 

the french will probably have ripped up the railway lines by then,destroying everything that reminds them of the UK and all that fish they aren't getting.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

So what's actually the latest news?

Re: Coronavirus
 

More than 100k tested in Liverpool which is great news and national R-rate falls to 1.2.

Sage warns that infections will return to pre lockdown levels if tier system returns which is not so good news.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...warns-12131773

Re: Coronavirus
 

More than 100k tested in Liverpool . . . out of how many, and are the 'results' in yet (expecting USA election type figures) ;)

Sage warning everybody again what 'might' happen, IMO the name SAGE doesn't fit :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just shy of half a million in the City of Liverpool council area itself, about 0.9 million in the “city region” (what we used to just call Merseyside).

I believe they have been offering these tests to those who work in the city as well, so their target figure if they want to get everyone has got to be a little over half a million.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54950497

Re: Coronavirus
 

Mr King is a publicity seeking plonker.

Re: Coronavirus
 

For once l agree with you..


The PM Boris Johnson is self-isolating after coming into contact with someone who has tested positive for Covid 19.

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1328074326143340544

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just come up on the BBC as well

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54954698

Re: Coronavirus
 

The FTSE100 will be up tomorrow.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

From that link
You would have thought that this meeting could have been done remotely or the could have eaten beforehand to minimise the time spent together. Isn't the government's current advice to work from home wherever possible?

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------

At his key adviser will still be physically present. ;)

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------

Can't see much changing in Hull after 2nd December.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...sures-12133363

Re: Coronavirus
 

A second RNA vaccine (same approach as Pfizer) has reported initial trials results and claims 94.5% effectiveness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

This one is produced by Moderna in the USA. U.K. gov hasn’t preordered any of this one but is in negotiations.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

My lager based medicine is 100% guaranteed to make you not bothered about covid or any other thing that might be worrying you, probably be 4 or 5 vaccines available very shortly as developers seem to be rushing them out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

No one has done the experiment of if it's possible to drink enough that your breath is self-sanitising.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you drank that much then you'd be behaving is such a way that no-one would want to get close enough to be infected.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We didn't order any till today, and then in a last minute panic realising we cocked up. 'Hancocks half hour' again..... Then only 5 million doses which will only treat 2.5 million people and not until spring. The EU got 160 million doses ordered...

Lets hope the Oxford vaccine delivers or we've backed the wrong horse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

To be fair, Moderna is only 10 years old and has never brought a vaccine to market before. HMG’s strategy seems to be to back a variety of potential vaccine approaches, most likely because different vaccination methods will show different levels of effectiveness in different sorts of patient. HMG’s chosen RNA vaccine is the one produced by Pfizer which has decades of experience and ultimately won the race to first results. It is also likely to be able to mass produce more rapidly and at greater volume.

To insinuate the EU has somehow made better choices because it happens to have some of Moderna’s product in its portfolio is absurd. That was a gamble, plain and simple. Great for them that it’s paid off, but let’s not get all moist and dewy eyed over them as if they’ve somehow done something intrinsically cleverer than anyone else.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just a shame we've made the isolationist choices we've made over the past few years. This is a classic example on why acting together with other countries makes us stronger. On our own we're weaker and vulnerable in the marketplace.

Re: Coronavirus
 

^^^
THIS

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is bovine excreta of the highest order, and frankly looks suspiciously like something you’ve had ready and waiting in Notepad to copy and paste at the earliest opportunity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There will be many more examples coming over the next few years. I sense you realise I'm right hence your outrage....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, no surprise really, forever the pessimist.

Re: Coronavirus
 

IIRC previously the UK had signed up deals with half a dozen companies already. You can't sign up deals with each and every one around the world.
Link

Seven deals in place for early access.

---------- Post added at 20:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

The UK was signing deals before the EU.
Eg
UK in July
EU this month
The UK is well ahead of the EU on this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed. Which is why it would be churlish to point out that whereas the U.K. had preordered the Pfizer vaccine, the EU had not. It would also be churlish to accuse the EU of ordering a batch of the Pfizer vaccine in a “last minute panic” having not previously done so. It would be entirely unfair to point out that the UK and the EU each backed a different RNA vaccine and, based on which vaccine declared results first, and which is likely to be able to deliver in quantity first, the U.K. made the better call.

But I won’t make any of those observations because there’s inevitably an element of risk and gambling in a situation like this. What this shows us is that you win some and you lose some. What it doesn’t tell us is anything remotely useful about the supposed benefit of a common European medicines procurement policy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The accusation was made that somehow the UK was in a worse position than the EU on vaccines. The truth of the matter is that the UK is still well ahead of the EU. We don't have to wait around for Germany to agree to anything.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed. However Mr K has made his drive-by EU butt-kissing post of the day and has now cleared off. It’s unlikely he’s going to return to acknowledge his error.

The interesting thing about Germany here isn’t just that they failed to secure early backing for the RNA vaccine part-developed by a German company (BioNTech), but now the EU has bought in to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine Germany is getting the lion’s share of the first delivery. It strikes me as a strange definition of “acting together” given that Germany’s Covid transmission rate is and always has been far lower than many other places. A cynic might say that the EU’s much trumpeted joint approach is a fig leaf covering the unedifying (but entirely understandable) spectacle of member states looking after their own interests in an area where there isn’t actually any EU competency, but because it’s a crisis they feel like they should be seen to be Doing Something.

Germany is more or less getting what it has paid for, with lip service paid to pooling and sharing resources and precious little evidence of the vaccine going exactly where it’s needed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-...blic-health_en

The EU look in a good position to me. I hope they are in a good position because they're ordering significant numbers of many of the same products and it's in our mutual interests to get the virus under control. The more products the better as there's a likelihood we could all be scraping around in 12-24 months for additional doses.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK was signing deals months before the EU.
UK July

It's not so much whether the EU is in a bad position, but the totally ridiculous claim that the UK is somehow in a bad position. The UKs early access deals mean we get first or near first, call on anything.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed - they have access to the same data as us, the same level of expertise and a similar assessment of risk. Where there are differences in our portfolios, that really just is the result of the inevitable gambling component of a situation like this. It’s why there’s even a portfolio in the first place and not just an order for one vaccine from one manufacturer.

The EU plausibly has a price per unit advantage if it is able to put down significantly larger orders, but given that no vaccines have yet been produced, demand massively outstrips supply and the politics of where vaccines are being developed and manufactured also plays a part, that’s by no means guaranteed.

What interests me most here is the EU’s internal politics. Who pays for the vaccine and who gets it first? From what I’ve read so far, it isn’t likely to be down to plain and simple pooling and sharing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Does that not make it the best place to deploy a vaccine? If most of the population are still susceptible.

I'd also expect Germany to be better placed to immediately distribute massive numbers of a vaccine that requires such cold storage throughout it's distribution chains. Scattering it round the continent is going to be a logistical challenge that I'd imagine is undesirable and perhaps unnecessary is other vaccines are in the pipeline that don't have the same issues.

I agree with you on the UK vs EU part of this though - pointless as you say everyone is gambling to a greater or lesser degree on big names and smaller companies.

---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

I do agree it's interesting, and I'm not saying you are wrong just playing devil's advocate slightly. Everyone is going to have to make judgement calls on where the vaccine goes first.

On the per unit cost point I'm inclined to agree that even where it arises it's going to be so small compared to the economic impact of Covid. Even $20 (going high deliberately) for 45 million people (rough population immunity threshold). It's nothing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now, are you suggesting herd immunity has already done the job in other places? :angel:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It'd be interesting to know ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Buying a portfolio of vaccines obviously makes sense and the UK seems to have done a good job here.
However, from the information below, it does appear that the EU was able to buy from Moderna but the UK struggled.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1328314816092659712

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU has yet to sign any deal with Moderna, so as yet the EU hasn't bought anything. The US has already signed up for 500m Moderna doses.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Grauniad reports that what the EU has had since summer is a “potential purchase agreement” for Moderna’s vaccine.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-covid-vaccine

That’s somewhat less concrete than the firm pre-order HMG has placed with Pfizer. The government has cited higher cost, potential supply chain issues in Europe, and Moderna’s refusal to sign any actual supply contracts outside the USA as reasons for concentrating on Pfizer. It also quite reasonably points out that it therefore has an RNA vaccine in its portfolio. Pfizer’s cooperation with BioNTech on this project also means there will initially be two European manufacturing bases for it so there’s no chance of the US government slapping an export ban on the product to give their own population priority.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The nice thing about the EU is that there communications are pretty upfront. Here is their vaccine strategy page - https://ec.europa.eu/info/live-work-...blic-health_en

Here's a short summary;

Contracts in place

AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine - contact for 300million doses plus option for an additional 100million
Sanofi/GSK - 300million doses
Janssen - 200million doses plus option for an additional 200million
BioNTech/Pfizer - 200million doses plus option of an additional 100million

Talks in place;

Moderna - 80million doses
Curevac - 225million doses

The Sanofi/GSK one is the safe bet. The BioNTech, Moderna and Curevac ones are all mRNA vaccines which are a new technology but seem to give a storming immune response. The Janssen and AZ/Oxford ones are the 'risky' bets.

Looking through the candidates out there, there are some strange vaccines in trials right now!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seeing as the US has a deal already in place for upto 500m doses and has handed over $1billion to build a plant and another $1.5billion for the initial 100m doses, they obviously have early access rights, just as the UK has early access rights on other vaccines. Moderna is looking to build up manufacturing in Europe.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Would be good to know how vaccine is going to be supplied to poorer nations (and even the poor in some nations without general health cover).

Medicine should be supplied based on need not ability to pay especially with a pandemic where we have to get rid of the virus pretty much everywhere.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is an organisation aiming to do that

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/ga...-amc-explained

Re: Coronavirus
 

The cynical capitalist would argue that as it's unlikely the virus will be eradicated completely that it's not cost effective to plough that much resource into the healthcare systems of poorer countries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

As I said above, it's what the Covax scheme is trying to help with at least in part

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...chinas-support

Re: Coronavirus
 

Vaccines in particular are bad business as a good one is needed once per lifetime. The prices of vaccines have been sneaking up because of this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most of central Scotland is going into level 4 restrictions this weekend. That’s fairly similar to the restrictions presently in force across England.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Getting bored of COVID now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There was a song our kids used to sing at school, Cowboy Christmas ... Mrs and I keep catching each other singing COVID Christmas :disturbd:

Yippee ay oh kay yay, COVID Christmas is the best!

Etc ...

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Police instructed to cease handing out £10,000 fines for breaches of COVID-19 regulations with immediate effect.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Be interesting to find out what's went wrong here.

Re: Coronavirus
 

COVID-19: Police to stop issuing £10,000 'super fines' over concerns they can be challenged in court
The National Police Chiefs' Council is recommending officers issue a court summons rather than a straight fixed penalty notice.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...court-12134839

Re: Coronavirus
 

Any fixed penalty can either be accepted or refused by the one given it. If you refuse to accept it you get a court hearing instead. If I was handed one for £10k there’s no way I’d just take it, there’s nothing to lose by going to court.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So now it's illegal to leave Scotland from some areas.

Time to build another wall I think....

Re: Coronavirus
 

They were stupidly high anyway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I said that in May.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looks like The Sun once again has the exclusive on the change of rules. Christmas may see restrictions lifted for 5 days started December 24th.

(I initially thought it had been decided, it seems it's being 'looked at' instead)

Re: Coronavirus
 

And New Year sees a further lockdown as a result... Christmas should be irrelevant otherwise we're stringing this out for longer. Its one year and folks might have to accept Christmas will be different. Many will enjoy it a lot more without relatives anyway ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Christmas will get the brucey bonus of school closures to bring down infections. Probably more than offsetting the what is temporarily permitted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And all the Uni students coming home,?? I'm isolating my budding graduate in the garage . Happy Christmas son ! :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think they have to be tested before they can leave uni. Ask to see proof of this before extending your hospitality. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Those mega rich unis are going to stump up for test and release.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not sure how that works if they're not living in halls/on campus. After the first year most are on privately rented accommodation. However as long as he's bearing alcoholic gifts, and no cough, suppose I"ll let him in....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bit of a faux-pas by Toby Young (a leading non-believer in the severity of COVID).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1605691097

Re: Coronavirus
 

bah humbug.

At house Pierre we have already decided to flout the rules if they are in force. immediate family Parents, sisters, nieces will all be coming over for Christmas dinner as they do every year.

I suspect many other will be doing the same, which is why it is unenforceable and therefore the only sensible thing to do is pause any restrictions.

Good luck to the police for New Years eve as the given what the last year has been like the dawning of the new one will be celebrated.

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 ----------

you're right! based on those numbers it's 0.01%

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have been tasked with getting a turkey to feed 12 people, make of that what you will.

Re: Coronavirus
 

50,000 of 5,000,000 is 1%.

50,000 x 100 = 5,000,000

Re: Coronavirus
 

What:shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

You need to multiple by 100 to get it expressed as a percentage.

So 50,000/5,000,000 = 0.01 *100 = 1.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:dunce:

of course

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I can't confirm or deny that remark at this time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54971650


Some of the mouthwashes that contain cetylpyridinium chloride.


Dentyl mouthwash
Crest pro-health multi-protection mouthwash
Colgate Total Pro-Shield
Sensodyne Pronamel Daily Mouthwash
Oral-B Pro-Expert Multi Protection alcohol free mouthwash
Colgate Plax Cool Mint
OraCare+ Senstiive alcohol-free fluoride mouth wash

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...oride-cure-EVG

Re: Coronavirus
 

Strictly speaking it may reduce viral load so while not a cure or "immunity" may help prevent more severe infections. More empty shelves and price rises. Just see eBay offers for bottles of mouthwash at inflated prices.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The actual research paper

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/ass...-infection.pdf

tl;dr - early days yet, might be useful, needs more research

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 ----------

We buy packs of 6 from Costco, so no worries... :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can't quite see how that would help prevent getting the virus, other than by helping preventing others from spreading it. People tend to breathe in/out through the nose, which a mouthwash won't reach.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We already use one of the mouthwashes on the list but thought the link was worth posting. I have had a quick look on Amazon and those that are stocked are still being sold at normal prices.

To my mind if there is something that could help then I will always keep an eye open for future developments.

---------- Post added at 11:42 ---------- Previous post was at 11:31 ----------

I breath through my mouth.

The article doesn't say that it will prevent you getting the virus but that ...[QUOTE]While the research suggests use of mouthwash may help kill the virus in saliva, there is not evidence it could be used as a treatment for coronavirus, as it will not reach the the respiratory tract or the lungs.[

Dr Claydon, a specialist periodontologist, said: "If these positive results are reflected in Cardiff University's clinical trial, CPC-based mouthwashes... could become an important addition to people's routine, together with hand washing, physical distancing and wearing masks, both now and in the future."/QUOTE]

The use of Vitimin D was also played down early on but now it is standard part of hospital treatmenthttps://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/cl...tudy-suggests/

Re: Coronavirus
 

I've been using Bleach, no worries.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sky News Australia have quite a few staff, then. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suppose you will be having xmas with the entire EU negotiating team ,sleepy joe, angela merkel and moaning macron.;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interesting paper from Nature Human Behaviour here which discusses the effectiveness of different government interventions on reducing the Rt value of this disease (Rt being the real world value for R0) It covers 79 countries and uses four models to give a bit of 'oomph' to the analysis.

The paper ranks different interventions and these are the top 5 results and the drops in Rt value for one model;

1. Small gathering cancellation - -0.35
2. Closure of schools - -0.16
3. Border restriction - -0.23
4. Increased availability of PPE - -0.11
5. Individual movement restrictions - -0.13

Re: Coronavirus
 

So is going to the pub a small gathering or does that fall under restrictions on certain establishments.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: COVID-19: Supermarkets most common exposure setting for catching coronavirus in England, latest data suggests

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...shows-12136418

Proportion of all common locations reported in PHE data:

• Supermarket - 18.3%
• Secondary school - 12.7%
• Primary school - 10.1%
• Hospital - 3.6%
• Care home - 2.8%
• College - 2.4%
• Warehouse - 2.2%
• Nursery preschool - 1.8%
• Pub or bar - 1.6%
• Hospitality - 1.5%
• University - 1.4%
• Manufacture engineering - 1.4%
• Household fewer than five - 1.2%
• General practice - 1.1%
• Gym - 1.1%
• Restaurant or cafe - 1.0%

---------- Post added at 15:31 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

I can see a few pub landlords getting pissed off with this data, asking why they have to close when the primary source is something that has to remain open for essentials.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was data from 9th - 15th November. Nobody should have been in pubs in this period.

Though it seems pretty dubious data anyway (it only adds up to 64%). Surely most transmission happens within households?

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not good to read this as where they got it. It's where people have been before they tested positive it - big difference - so places which people frequently go will be listed more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Textbook for the schools cover up. Ask if parents have been to supermarket or hospitality in the last few days. Chalk it up as there. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Man cannot live on beer alone ... :beer: :angel:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd give it a good old go anyway. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll have a damn good try!:beer::beer::beer::naughty::drunk::D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

12 pints and a bag of crisps -sorted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, I wondered that. But only 1.2% of people have been in a household of 5 or fewer???

Re: Coronavirus
 

I propose the Cable Forum Christmas Night In where we do put this to the test.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh goody, yet another set of misleading and meaningless numbers.
If somebody from a "household fewer than five" takes a kid to "primary school" and then another to"nursery preschool", goes to a "restaurant or cafe", goes to work in a "warehouse", and also goes to a "supermarket" at some point, they are going to be in EACH of those six categories. It means 18.3% of those testing positive had visited a supermarket at some point in the previous days, but they also could've been visiting a gym.

What %age of the population go to the gym in the first place? As that is going to be low anyway, that implies a higher risk than the 1.1% figure for somebody who goes to a gym.


Why do the civil service keep insisting on releasing misleading and meaningless numbers that serve no purpose, other than to be misrepresented by others with a distorted agenda.:mad:

Re: Coronavirus