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If ever a (moving) picture was worth a thousand words ;)

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Personally l very much prefer the 1958 version..;)

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Got to be worthy of an Oscar - in a factual category ;)

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Looks like a FAKE crappy video (I didn't watch any of it), based on Remainer fiction, plus heavily breaching copyright laws, James Cameron/Paramount pictures should sue for such poor handy work using their material from the film.

Not to mention the indecency of using a film based on a real tragedy back in 1912, shows how low Remainers can go to push their fake narratives.

Roll on Brexit day so we can leave the failing, pathetic and corrupt EU!

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you're kidding me, you mean it's not real ??? :D :D

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Well obviously it's fake.

It's just a parody video. The film itself wasn't a somber retelling of events, it wasn't Schindler's List, it was a romantic film. Going a bit overboard (heh!) here.

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It was done by Comedy Central a sister company to Paramount.

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Getting their fingers out at last but it's a bit late in the day.

Follow the link for a list of papers and areas covered.

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Yesterday's article in the Telegraph Business section explained cogently how the EU engineers regime change or capitulation to the Brussels/Berlin diktat. They give examples of how the ECB withheld purchases of Italian bonds back in 2011 to enforce austerity policies on Berlusconi's government "when he began to flirt with the lira". Then there was the Greek episode, where there the EU used "fear and economic coercion" to get its way. Not to mention whatever coercion was mad to force Ireland and France (I think it was) to hold a second referendum on treaty changes.

My point here is that painful as it may initially be, many Leavers insist that the UK needs to get away from this undemocratic and oppressive system.

As I've said before, I don't mind staying in the EU so long as the UK can continue using our picador sticks against the Junckers and Selmayrs that infest the Commission. There's not much that the EU can blackmail us with under their rules.

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More Brexit job opportunities- EU Exit Technology Lead. Pays £95-105k. The final interviews are in October so, with 3 months notice, the successful candidate starts in January, 3 months before we leave. No pressure.

Details for those wanting an exciting opportunity here - https://www.civilservicejobs.service...UyOGIyYTk3ZQ==

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Nigel Farage back in politics to challenge Theresa May's Brexit

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-far...rexit-11475417

Nigel Farage is returning to frontline politics to challenge what he describes as Theresa May's "fraudulent" Brexit plan.

The former UKIP leader said he would be part of a battle bus tour by the Leave Means Leave group to oppose the prime minister's proposals......

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A battle bus, how nice, will it have some whopping great lie painted on the side???:erm:

Nige is fed up not being the centre of attention any longer. He really is a first class plonker. I wish he'd 'leave' . He's anything but a man of the people.

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No he has principles - he is passionate about leaving the pathetic and corrupt EU - as am I.

We had a democratic process which saw over a million people extra, voting leave than remain, yet pathetic people, who refuse to accept the democratic result (Most remainers I know, accept it) are subverting democracy because it did not go their own way.

We will be leaving the EU as democratically decided.

As for the bus, for the umpteenth time - that which was on the side of the red bus, was NOT a lie, it was a suggestion, "Let's give" is a suggestion, "We will give" is a statement of intent and by the way, that red bus had nothing to do with Nigel Farage's campaign.

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Farage is to be hailed as a great man for securing the EU Referendum. Whether you are a Leaver or Remainer, he deserves admiration for his tenacity and skill; you don't have to agree with him to acknowledge that rather sneer and deride him.

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Your entitled to your opinion...

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You are too kind.

What I've noticed is that some regular Remainers on this thread have nothing but contempt for key Leavers. I haven't seen the Leavers on this thread pour such vitriol and scorn on the leading Remain politicos, who are trying to overthrow a democratic decision.

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The fact is Seph, we know no matter what we say there's just no changing them.

They are like religious zealots. Their belief is unchangeable.

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Quite. Sort of Corbyn-like but more vocal about their prejudices.

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Mick, I owe you a big apology on this.

What Obama said had never made sense to me, right from the beginning. I made some comments on it on a site that I used to run:

http://www.elite-politics.com/showth...ull=1#post1624

I'll copy the relevant parts of it, here:

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You really did open me up to some of my antics here, I have a tendency to control the way that discussions go / see things ahead of time and the discussion gets the life sucked out of it.

So in that sense we all owe you a debt of gratitude.

xx

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My guess is his campaign will be launched the week the preparedness papers are launched, pushing those down the news. Not sure why he’s unhappy at how democratically elected government is performing. Sounds like he hates democracy and the will of the people. The people could have voted UKIP but didn’t, they trusted the Tories to deliver Brexit.

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This is actually the biggest hurdle in getting somewhere. The FTPA ; another thing Cameron and Clegg screwed part of the Tory party over.

Okay so the way I see it...if May caves to the EU to get this Checkers deal, they will say no. She loses on that front. If they say no and there is a no deal scenario, parliament will vote it down. The UK will stay in the EU by default. (The EU will amend the A50 withdrawal, for that purpose). Labor will not back this current deal, so she can't even get it through with their support (in parliament) - every option she loses.

The only way round this that I see is if the rank and file turf her and a new leader comes in - he calls a new GE and the country has a GE. Yes, the FTPA is an issue but if a majority vote for a new election then the parliamentary rules allow for it to be called on a simple majority.

Which MP is going to say no to the idea of another GE? May is the only thing holding it up...I have been saying for over a year now that she is the issue and now finally everyone else is coming round to the idea....but you have a very short time to get this done. If she falls in Oct you have months left to call a GE and get a larger majority...otherwise a "no deal" exit will fail, and the UK will stay in the EU.

Her plan is toast. A no deal scenario is the only way forward - you can't do it with the current numbers in Whitehall, she has to go and the new leader of the Tories would be able to justify a GE. Corbyn is there for the taking now, you will win big, so long as you don't pick the wrong leader.

You won't leave the EU with this parliamentary breakdown.

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The only problem I see with these top business leaders panicking over Brexit is all the back handers that have come from the EU once we pull out we'll soon see who is in my back pocket people are.

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Wasn't it Farage who said a 52:48 referendum result wouldn't be the end of the matter ? He's a hypocrite.

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Ah I see, so some 52:48 results are different to others ;)

They can't deliver a decent Brexit, it's fundamentally flawed. Damage limitation is the best they can hope for.

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Also Farage did also say that he would support the idea of a second referendum, even after leave won the current referendum:

This was in January of this year:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ferendum-video

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exactly :clap::clap::clap:

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What he said, I would echo it word for word.

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We should blame the EU as well they aren't really playing ball either are they? They would simply have us leave paying off 80 billion or more in whatever fantasy debts they say we owe and keep all the invested stuff as well we have put into.

They'll make sure for the next time that once you are in the club there is no way out of the club

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Isn't that their job, to protect their own interests? You don't expect them to benefit the Brits, do you?

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NO its a total disregard of the democratic vote that has generated all this heat.

Your right about being more aware, i now have a better idea of how utterly disgraceful the EU is and want to leave even more than i did at the time of the original democratic vote.

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Of course they won't but anybody who thinks British governments protect our own interests will find that all the family silver has all been sold and is nicely nestled in foreign hands now..

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Just wonder why those Brexiters are so against a vote ? It would be on a different issue on whether or not to accept any deal ? That deal could mean very different things. The issue is big, affect generations to come, and so country changing that we need to be sure. It's not as if we don't have General Elections every few years, nothing is forever.

Think the real reason is because they know they'd lose such a vote by a long way. Some are intrenched in their 'i can never be wrong' position, but others have wised up. Day by Day the chaos of Brexit becomes apparent. I don't totally blame the Government, they've been asked to deliver something that is going to cause the country great harm. Doubtless Brexiteers will blame them and everyone else, anyone but themselves.

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Referendums are not general elections. They don’t get revisited every five years because they are only held when major, permanent constitutional changes are being mooted.

It is very clear that the ‘final say’ advocates are actually the very same people who have been looking for a way to stop Brexit since the day the result was announced. It is obvious that they are calling for the ‘final say’ question to be framed in such a way that it isn’t a vote on the nature of our departure but simply a re-run of the last referendum.

A ‘final say’ referendum would give the European Commission the final excuse it needs to be intractable to the point of offering an intolerable deal to the U.K. in the expectation that British voters would reject it and Brexit would then be prevented.

Yes, we Brexiteers fear a second referendum - not because we fear democracy, but because we’re not so blind that we can’t see exactly what the continuity remain campaign has been manoeuvring to achieve for the last 2 years.

There is little precedent for any kind of referendum in the British constitution and there is absolutely no precedent for re-addressing the same issue on a timescale less than 20 years (on the Scottish devolution question - the gap between EU referendums was 40 years).

All that aside, there is now barely enough time, allowing for Parliamentary procedure plus a reasonable campaign period (which would be determined in consultation with the electoral commission) to set up and run a referendum before next March. So unless May caves in and agrees to it very shortly after the recess (and she won’t), you can stop bleating about it and get on with your life - it ain’t happening.

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Never pretended the EU was perfect. But those saying it is totally corrupt, as some on here have done, is slightly overstating the case ! When has there been large scale corruption ? Is it any more than any other large organisation? (not that I'm excusing it).

Acting as One is part of the strength, yes if anyone is a minority on issue they have to compromise. tbh honest the EU were very flexible to us -rebates and opt outs, we' ll never get such a good deal again.

The alternative of going it alone may provide a few advantages but it vastly outweighed by the economic damage. We're a relatively small country, we won't be no 1 on the list for trade deals with other countries and we'll be in a weak position. The BINO option just leaves us paying into the EU with no say.. Sometimes the grass isn't always greener elsewhere. It's going to be a very tough long lasting lesson.

The obsession with individuals (Junker) or anti German French stuff is nationalistic tabloid nonsense. Individuals and jingoism are irrelevant to our economic future.

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Rees Mogg also agreed with this point:



---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

I also second this. It is refreshing to see that someone who has openly supported Leave can accept and agree that the situation we find ourselves in, together with how we got here leads you to a rational conclusion that the country needs to sign off whatever deal/no deal is finally arrived at.

I personally believe that the original referendum is not some holy writ that is not allowed to be challenged. It was flawed on many levels but it is what it is so we have to deal with the consequences.

I find it troubling that any debate on validating the final deal is met with cries of Treason and 'What price democracy!" This is designed to stop an informed decision on what is our and our children's future for decades to come. Just stop and pause for a moment: this is not a vote on whether we should change Sunday shopping hours, it is a decision that will fundamentally change the nature of this country in all sorts of ways, some obvious, some not so.

The first referendum was not an informed decision not matter how many say "I know that I voted for". This is a matter of record. If the case for Leaving is so clear and obvious, then the Leave side cannot fear a second vote ..

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Then if you Remainers still don’t get the result you want, will you demand another and then another and then another, until you get the result you want?

There is no basis for a second vote, the first was not flawed at all. The question was simple, Leave or Remain. Leave clearly won.

There should be no further vote. Leave means leave.

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No, I am happy with just the one. A vote where before it takes place, the electorate is presented with an informed, detailed and coherent plan (on both sides) with a clear and authoritative risk analysis of the short, medium and long economic projections.

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And what makes you think the public will believe this information?

We was told lies before from either campaigns. It will be a re-run of baseless fear mongering from the Remain side,, that turned out to be fiction last time.

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Nothing will change even if there was a second referendum as it will be the same as it was before with lies and baseless fear mongering from both sides sadly so what is the point of a second referendum as it will change nowt...

---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

And you think today modern obfuscating incompetent politicians are going to do that as you will be sadly mistaken as they have considerable trouble just trying to organise a piss up in a brewery.

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As ever you don't seem to be offering any alternatives Den.

Saying everyone and everything is as a bad as each other and nothing is worth bothering with, is a very dark outlook, even for me ! ( you may however be right ;) )

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you mean lots of guesswork and speculation based on . . guesswork and speculation, much of which will be slanted towards the 'doomsday' scenario they've been preaching about for 2 years.


I can't think of any groups, committees, official bodies, etc etc that I would trust to give an unbiased report on what may happen in the near/far future . .

I know what I voted for thanks :Yes:

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Alternative for what? as we had one referendum where the citizens of this country had a clear decision to make and even though l did not vote for Brexit one respects the democratic vote that took place which obviously you quite clearly don't.

Its not the publics fault that ever since the referendum its been a almighty mess as the blame for that quite clearly lies of the feet of the incompetent untrustworthy politicians the public have put their trust in.

---------- Post added at 12:45 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------

l am usually far more wrong then l am right but at least l admit it.;)

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How can you know what you voted for ? We don't know if they'll be any deal or what will be in any deal. That's why a vote on any deal is needed, its NOT rerunning the referendum which Brexit supporters don't seem or want to understand. If we reject the deal then Govt have to renegotiate or we leave with no deal.

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I voted to leave, that's what I voted for :D

It was simply Leave or Remain, black or white, left hand or right hand.

I didn't (and still don't) need anyone explaining the consequences (whether good or bad) of my vote . . I chose leave because of my personal appraisal of whether to continue in a failing EU or go it alone.

Others voters had their own reasons ;)

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An alternative to democracy that's what the remain camp is longing for .

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A referendum on the deal runs a serious risk of ending up in no-man’s Land. A leave/remain referendum will have a definite outcome with an easier to cope with situation arising.

Whilst I support a second referendum for reasons stated earlier, I am not advocating one. In other words, if one happens, I won’t be bleating.

I remind the Remainers that the EC are scheming autocrats. I pick on Juncker and in particular Selmayr for their obsession with punishing the UK for calling time on their racket.

Again I remind certain Remainers of the blind eye they appear to be turning to German hegemony, their blatant engineering of the Euro’s value; to France’s blatant manipulation of the corrupt CAP, to the blatantly unfair fisheries policy and the list can go on.

I don’t want it and if we end up remaining, I want to continue fighting those thugs. Another word starting with a t.

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I get the feeling you don’t like Germans...

On the fisheries policy, would it be more fair if our representative to the fisheries committee actually turned up to meetings?

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The Deutschmark was low at the time of the inception of the Euro due to the costs of reunification. In contrast, other currencies such as the lira and drachma were overvalued due to the incoming euro. This of course helped countries that export a lot such as Germany and hindered net importers such as the southern eurozone nations. The Deutschmark certainly wasn’t overvalued against the euro but the introduction of the new currency did help but this was due to semi-external factors.

Our representative to the fisheries committee was a certain Nigel Farage who turned up to one out of 42 meetings. Can’t be outvoted if you don’t turn up I guess.

Please feel free to explain how the current fisheries quotas are unfair considering DEFRA is reponsible for divvying up the UKs quota and sells these to foreign companies at the expense of small fishermen. For example, 99% of the mackerel landed is by 33 vessels - http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/ar...-uks-fisheries

Edit - interesting article on Germany and its relationship with the Euro here - https://www.forbes.com/sites/miltone.../#5913630c27da

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The one distinction is that I would say now it is a real time issue for Brits to deal with - so for example now Trump has to act and he can chose when and how to prioritize what he likes. Obama on the other hand was opining in hopes of effecting the actual vote, trying to influence the result.

Not basing his view on what the outcome already was.

Trump is fine to tell Brits to shove it - it is not his responsibility to offer a trade deal, now was it Obama's. This is all going to have to go through the US senate and there is zero appetite for this right now.

Oh I dunno...the US has a habit of meddling in the elections of other nations - just not ours usually. I think that we just thought that we were above such stuff and were worth more in the eyes of the US than a third world banana republic (when all we do is behave like one).

We probably were at one point too, (like under the tenure of Blair or Thatcher) but our influence has since waned.

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Umm are you forgetting about the lack of tariffs and barriers to the entire SM? I would call that a benefit...

The referendum was in and out on membership of the union, that is all. None of those institutions that require you to be a member would be somewhere that we could join but what about all those that do not require you to be a member? Like the medicines agency, for example. All the stuff to do with national security / technology and research etc?

(I mean technically we could still be a part of the CU / SM, too (without full membership) but I don't want to start terrifying you.)

Nah that is just Boris being Boris ; his way of saying that we get cake / get to eat it and then turning to May and explaining that no matter what (deal or no deal) she can't have any cake, either way.

How about because it is not realistically likely to ever happen?

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In UK, we have 'parliamentary sovereignty'.

This means that no Parliament can bind future Parliaments. DC may have said that Parliament would be bound by the referendum result, but post General Election 2017, we have a new Parliament.



https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/role/sovereignty/

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Reunification wasn’t a one off cost, Germany is still paying for it now and there are still huge differences between east and west in terms of infrastructure (no source except my boss who was originally from Dresden but now lives in south west Germany)

On the representation thing, of we had no one to represent our interests in the committee, how can we influence decisions?

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I provided you with relative devaluation stats, which is what influences the currency basket leading to the Euro. Reunification costs have little bearing on that.

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See, if I had said something like this, lol....;)

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FFS stop trotting this bollocks out.

It was stipulated in a leaflet posted to every house in the nation that leaving the EU meant leaving the Single Market and the customs union.

If you didn't read it and/ or understand.........tough.

No we don't, because a deal hasn't been done yet? How can you know what is in a deal if it hasn't been done?

OK then add this Just so I understand.

The worst thing, according to you, is to leave with no deal.

So the democratically elected government, post referendum, that we entrust to lead to country come back with a deal.

Parliament, to whom we haven't given the mandate to negotiate Brexit say, no, crap deal go back........Which is the power you are asking for.

The government go back to the EU and say actually we need to change parts of our agreement, and the EU say FU, take it or leave it, we've been negotiating with you, not your parliament.

Then by your rules, we crash out with no deal.

So explain to me, very simply, how that helps or improves things? I'm really interested in your response.

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You think that things are coming together now?

That is breathtaking / truly remarkable.

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Get your head round it because i agree with him 100%.Things are moving along at a nice rate of knots,Onwards and Upwards :)

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Must be some sort of 'alternate reality' thing ! :D :rolleyes:

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Jeez it’s annoying to agree with you!

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Sounds familar? Well, there you go. :D

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Now, now, no deliberate wind ups :nono:

Anyway, if you believe that pile of clickbait garbage, you'll believe anything ..

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LOL Spot on :D

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Things would have been better if the leaflet (and leave campaigns) said what you think the leaflet said. They're not and it didn't.

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In the U.K. we also have a very strong sense of precedent, and also of Parliament’s moral obligation to do the will of the people. Even simply passing legislation that wasn’t in a manifesto is controversial, despite Parliament’s constitutional right to do so.

There is limited precedent for referendums in Britain but those that have been held, have been respected, and not overturned without having first been implemented.

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Even the non-binding ones?

And considering we’ve only had 3 nationwide referendums in the U.K., not really a lot of precedent...

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There are no binding ones - constitutionally. It’s not possible. You are however (perhaps deliberately) ignoring the very powerful moral obligation of Parliament to do what has been committed to by manifesto, and yes, by referendum. I know there’s not a lot of precedent, hence my use of the phrase “limited precedent” ;)

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https://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-queens-speech 2017 Manifesto omissions, tbf, number 5 has happened.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...as-implemented 2015 manifesto pledges not met

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ories-10371384

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Fair point, and any half decent opposition would have made mincemeat of the government for that litany of failures. But, I think it says more about the opposition than it does about the moral duty of Parliament, that that list is so long and yet nobody is talking about it. Or perhaps it is simply that Brexit, which was in the manifesto, is such an imperative that everybody is focusing on that to the exclusion of all else.

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It's only ever going to be Brexit. From now until the end of time. There will never not be Brexit. If there was a second referendum by far the best argument Remain would have is that you wouldn't hear about it again.

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Yay, no more credit and debit card surcharges, better fraud protection and an end to money being blocked on your card - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...s/index_en.htm

Oh.

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Sorry ... what?

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Did or did not, the leaflet say we would leave all European institutions?

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New EU directives on payments coming in stopping credit card surcharges, etc.

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I understood that. Your point, however, is obscure.

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Umm...okay.

So say no deal is agreed. Parliament refuses to okay / approve that. The UK does not leave the EU then as no agreement / lack there of is approved by Parliament.

Then what?

The UK still remains a member state of the EU and enough votes in Westminster plus votes in EU capitals etc will assure that Britain stays in.

Even the most ardent of leavers know that will be the case.

May needs to find a deal, and knows that she can't.

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his point was we not be protected from that once we leave

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Wow, you even use her catchphrases. (Job to be gotten on with / to be getting on with etc etc).

Okay let's try this the other way round, you tell us what you like about the thing.

Never mind the fact that even though the 4 principles of the EU are indivisible, May thought that she would give it a go anyway. (Leave the CET but align on goods, not services or people, but wants the freedom of zero tariffs plus her ability to strike trade deals etc).

Some people have an inability to take no for an answer.

By whose metrics? (Assuming that you are not judge and jury here). How ignoble of you to give your blessing to the former, though.

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This essentially. The parent page of the link I posted earlier is a nice guide to consumer rights covered by EU law - https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizen...s/index_en.htm Includes mobile roaming, VAT, warranties, net neutrality, etc.

Clearly, we could grandfather in existing regulations but new ones like the card charges are coming in all the time

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The Government can choose to implement those protections in UK law too, it's important that we continue to hold them to account on things like that. I sorta worry the Brexiters will demand those protections are revoked as a matter of principle/to wind up remainers and Remainers will let it happen so they can blame leaving the EU.

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But how would we "hold them to account" exactly? The current Tory party is sliding more to the right and is now, via the ERG string pulling, aligning us with a free market, low tax and deregulated future.

It is exactly the reason why, on this subject, leaving the EU is a mistake. If all you have here is hope in the Government, backed up by the ability to "hold them to account" then I feel you are on a hiding to nothing.

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Elections.

I am very pro-Remain. I am not really sure about a second referendum but I would vote for Remain if another one were held. I think Brexit is a mistake and will be viewed as a mistake decades from now.

However the argument that our government is rubbish so we need the EU to control them is not a great one.

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Its a very poor argument as let the government make a mess of Brexit which it is currently doing in spades currently and then the public will be able to be the judge and jury of it themselves when it has all played out.

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Sounds more like desperation.

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If only the remainers would let it all be played out. It is always possible they may have a change of mind.

Leavers like myself are fully aware there may be a rocky road ahead but believe we can get through it.

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The current system is too tribal to allow this kind of "holding to account" you describe.

Also, the argument is not that the "government is rubbish" (which it is :) ), it is rather the moderating influence of common sense EU directives designed to protect the consumer as opposed to the (lack of) UK laws designed to benefit Business and their shareholders.

---------- Post added at 16:14 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

A perfect contradiction: on the one hand you say, "don't worry, things will be fine you will see" and then in the same breath, you say "there may be a rocky road ahead but believe we can get through it"

You can't make it up ... no, actually, you can .. it was called the Leave campaign :)

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
 

No, I didn't say that at all, but carry on making it up as you go along.

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)
 

You must be the only person on the planet that is in favor of leaving, and in favor of May as well. How the heck do you accommodate such a juxtaposition?

As for what is left to complain about...nevermind.

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
 

But you're effectively arguing we can't be trusted to be left to our own devices. This is not the argument I would make, you're on a hiding to nothing making that case.

The argument for setting policy at EU level is somethings are better achieved by multiple countries signing on at once and the EU makes that quicker and simpler.

A shared set of regulations cuts red tape, makes business more efficient and helps consumers by making the market wider for them and more trustworthy. The EU roaming thing works because every EU country had to sign up to it so reciprocity was enforced immediately. If we had tried to do this outside of the EU then Britain, if we wanted it, would have to work out the arrangements separately which would have been a much more arduous task. Likewise for every other thing that works across the EU automatically. I don't think people appreciate how much the single market helps things.

The best case for the EU is economic not democratic.

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)
 

That was a disgrace / obviously nobody believes Lewis's nonsense of "forgetting" but one thing I thought of at the time is...okay they made a mistake so why not re-vote on that amendment with the government honoring the pairing?

At the time that happened I figured that you would be the only one who brought this up and I haven't read the rest of the replies but I commend you for bringing it up - the behavior was disgraceful.

If you don't agree with pairing (some don't) then fine...on the merits oppose it. If you agree with it, honor it. However this cockamamie garbage of "I forgot" is disgraceful from the Tories.

I suppose it is a little insensitive on my part in some ways ; May was baron so I suppose the maternity leave of other women is rather a sore point / the last thing she spends time focusing on but that is no excuse for the party chair / chief whip etc.

Re: Brexit Discussion (Follow First Post Rules!)
 

Oh, so you said:

This is saying if the Remainers keep quiet and wait they might have a change of mind, correct? So, by inference (and I am not showing my working), Remainers will only "change their minds" if things are indeed fine. If they are not fine, they will not change their minds .. i.e. the obvious.

So, you really did say "don't worry, things will be fine you will see" ...

.. or are you now saying that things will not be fine? ;)