Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lol, missing the point again mate. The UK agreed the rules by which the "European City of Culture" should be awarded. And for the record, being a European country is not the qualifying definition.
You seem to be saying that the UK is being spiteful against itself as it agreed to the rules.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes the EU can keep their 'culture'. They may have Paris, Venice, Barcelona etc., but we've got Peckham, Moss Side and Bradford, so we win that one ! ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Don't forget us down in deepest Devon me hearty...:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you have electricity and running water now Den ? ;)

Depressingly its areas like the SW & NE that have benefitted most from EU funding, any cash from EU exit will be going to the swivel eyed loons in the SE.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Its not all dark ages down here old boy.;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I like Ilfracombe, near there ? :)

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

I do not seem to be saying that at all.

What on Earth have you been smoking today ? :devsmoke:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Cornwall certainly has but Devon has not been so fortunate Mr K.

---------- Post added at 20:38 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------

Lovely place that is for sure but we are about 70 miles away from there.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Looks like you've had / getting £116 million from the EU atm. Guess these things will only be missed when they are gone and it's too late.
https://new.devon.gov.uk/economy/fun...-research/euro

And before some bright spark suggests we'll be getting something back from the EU, that's all going to the poxy NHS as we know.....:rolleyes:. ( ignoring the fact we'll be giving them at least £40 billion).

Still at least we'll get our country back !?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No-one has confirmed £40 Billion, May said today they will honour agreed payments and commitments, and she said her stance is the same as what she said in her Florence speech. Though has been said many times over, legally, we owe nothing.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Lol, are you ok Mick? I think you may have misheard your GP. He said fat-free diet not fact-free diet. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42121442
Bleeding Aussies, first they try knock our poor little cricket captain's head off, now they are being awkward about Brexit !

Seems we're not the centre of the universe, that everyone depends on after all.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/11/16.jpg

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Unless the EU demands we stay in just to punish us for leaving, :D

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

Well it'll be less than Corbyn's cronies would wind up paying because they've told the EU they'd pay anything to avoid a no deal so the EU can ask what they like and Labour will hand it over. Typical Labour nonsense.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another Negative Myth Debunked:

Total Number of EU Nationals working in NHS in June 2016. (Month of EU Ref) = 42,123
Total Number of EU Nationals working in NHS in June 2017. (One year later) = 43,509

If my maths is correct that is an INCREASE of 1,386.

Again I ask those who were scare mongering where is this exodus you were speaking of from the NHS of EU Nationals leaving in droves ?

Source. NHS Digital and Spectator. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/11/...bers-going-up/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Strange - doesn't seem to match up with the actual NHS staff figures (and there is no link in the Spectator article to click through to).

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...Z91Pp9hPn8L-j0

Page 4 Page 6 Page 7 This information is from the House of Commons Briefing Paper Number 7783, 16 October 2017, and it's data source is

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You need to scroll on the Spectator link!

It is not strange at all, add up the numbers on the Spectator table that is what the total is. EU Nationals NHS workers tally since the vote is up!

Has the NHS in England really been losing EU nationals from its staff since Britain voted to leave the European Union?

in post 30 June 2016 / in post 30 June 2017

• Doctors 9,695 / 10,136 Net change: +441
• Registrars 3,190 / 3,215 Net change: +25
• Trainee doctors (foundation years 1 and 2) 779 / 950 Net change: +171
• Nurses and health visitors 20,907 / 20,618 Net loss: -289
• Midwives 1,220 / 1,247 Net change: +27
• Ambulance staff 250 / 386 Net change: +136
• Scientific/therapeutic/technical 6,112 / 6,957 Net change: +845

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Makes you wonder how the developed world outside of EU control actually survives doesn't it. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Interesting article in The Observer about people who regretted voting Leave.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...g-leave-brexit

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Good read that Andrew, i'm sure everyone will agree. :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You need to read the article again.

In other words, some people on the Remain side are ALSO changing their minds.

Btw, it's not an interesting article when it's wrote in a Anti-Brexit newspaper, such as the guardian. But I like how your source completely negates the point your trying to raise, by just the tiny paragraph I quoted from it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l call it handbags at ten paces.;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I previously posted a great but lengthy RTE article about how the Irish border could well be a stumbling block for negotiations in December. It explained that no matter how much progress the UK with paying its settlement bill, the border remained a sticking point and this part of the Brexit process was Ireland' s only opportunity to veto the deal.

This issue now seems to be reported a lot more widely.

The top headline on SkyNews is now Ireland 'threat to veto Brexit trade talks


There are similar stories across a range of news outlets.

They all pick up from today's Observer report.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-brexit-chaos

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just give them Northern Ireland back I'm sure everyone will be fine about it :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I'm not making a point, just highlighting an interesting article.

The article IS about leave voters who regretted their decision. It could be that all remain voters have regretted their decision and are waiting by for BoJo to lead them to the promised land of milk and honey. But the article's not about them.

One rather large clue is the article's headline "‘I thought I’d put in a protest vote’: the people who regret voting leave"

Re: Brexit discussion
 

To paraphrase Red Dwarf on Brexit.

It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Can't see this happening but an interesting read. Does point out that the referendum would probably get the same result so little reason to do it
https://patribotics.blog/2017/11/24/...-to-be-redone/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Andrew, you cannot say, you’re not making a point, when you quite clearly are and that is, you’re raising the point some leave voters have remorse. It’s probably true some are, but as Yougov has pointed out, it’s not very many and there is remorse for some people who voted Remain too, but there is not this massive swing in decision and it’s not going to change the result anyway.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I've simply pointed out an interesting article. I really don't know what more I could have done to keep you happy short of summarising every nuance in the article. Maybe I could have simply repeated the original headline but I thought that was a bit provocative so actually tamed it down. Hey ho!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It’s only interesting if it fits the Anti-brexit narrative.

Of course the guardian will post these kind of stories, it’s obvious there are people who have changed their minds, but this is not attributed to just people who voted leave.

Again, it’s all one sidedness with you. You’ve put this article here to try highlight there is just ‘leavers remorse’, you said nothing about there being remainers remorse, but that short sentence about Yougov’s findings, completely negates any point of the article, the article has bias, where are the interviews for people who regret voting Remain?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l have not got any problem with why people made their decision as my problem is with the continuous ongoing chaos of HMG as it simply has no clear or concise plan going forward and seems to make things up on the hoof as it goes along and sadly as time goes on that is very likely to reveal itself and sadly it will be the British public where the consequences will be felt hard as thus so far HMG has very cleverly obfuscated a message to many of the public into believing that everything will be wonderfully fine and dandy when sadly it will be nothing of the sort as the economic reality starts to set in and the brown stuff starts flying around.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

There is one sidedness and biasedness on both sides and because of that rarely do we get the full truth as we saw clearly in the referendum and thus thereafter.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes which is what I’m trying to clearly demonstrate Den,, I have always brought both sides in to the debate.

The issue of the government is a separate issue, plus the EU is also being a PITA as well, so you cannot just blame HMG. The EU is being as vindictive as they can be.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I've posted pro-Brexit articles in the past which were ignored because people just wanted to take issue with me for posting things like the European Medicines Agency leaving. Which it has but I guess those peoples' jobs are a price worth paying?
The consensus is that the UK will suffer in the way that a man who bites his nose off to spite his face will. Thus, wer're not talking of imminent trade deals and tax cuts but more of increased prices and uncertainty. Even the St Petersburgh troll farms would be hard-placed to put a spin on things. Maybe they can sew discontent by pretending that the EU is at fault for agreeing stricter terms for the European Capital of Culture back in 2014 but that's the limit of what they can do as the material doesn't exist. Hint. There is a reason for this and it's because we're now entering Project Reality. Politicians promised us a land of milk and honey not Bombardier trade disputes and chlorinated chicken.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As l always say it takes two sides to tango and two sides to sort out a good and reasonable deal for all sides.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Here we go again with the Russian interference BS.

You will forgive me, or won’t, I don’t care which, if I refute your claims, we will be worse off.

We can still have the same arrangements if we can amicably leave with a deal, we can still trade with the EU without paying a hefty membership fee but more importantly, we can make our own trade arrangements, on our own terms, with the rest of the world, which is a much bigger market. I have pointed out that Billionaire Sir James Dyson has stated the EU market is shrinking and is predicted to fall further in the next 5 years, while the Far East it is growing exponentially.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Funny how so many of those trying to overturn the Brexit result cite a hatred of far right politics when the very club they want us to be tethered to for eternity is fast moving in that direction led now by Germany and closely followed by France, Holland, Austria, Hungary, Poland... Not to worry though when you can just portray Farage and even the Tories as being extremist by way of reasoning... :spin:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So why when it's one side being awkward and bloody minded do you criticise both sides?

The UK is trying to make headway, but the EU beasties are pretty obstinate.

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:20 ----------

Well, it's a bit difficult to sort out the Irish border issues while the EU prevents us from talking about trade!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well if you take those narrow blinkers off for once the reality that both sides are to blame are as clear as night turns to day but l forgot if ones does not like what they hear they tend to develop convenient memory loss rather quickly to what they don't like to hear.

---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 16:28 ----------

Both sides are as bad as each other as perhaps both should learn the skill of flexibility rather then the current intransigence that currently prevails from both sides sadly.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah according to some around here anyone would think it's the UK which is constantly preventing progress in the talks - nothing whatsoever to do with the EU being utterly intransigent... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Irish want the border assurances before the talks about trade because they have less leverage when the talks move on. The problem is:

1) The Irish and Northern Irish do not want a border in Ireland (and Vote Leave/Brexiters said there would not be).
2) The DUP and N.Irish Unionists generally do not want a border in the Irish Sea
3) We do not want there to be no border between us and an EU nation.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Once again, you tell us this stuff with no explanation.

The media have reported on numerous occasions that the UK Government is trying to move talks on, but the EU want to see how much money they can screw out of us first. They seem oblivious to the fact that trade talks might actually enable us to make more concessions and come up with more solutions.

How the hell they think we can deal with the Irish border issue until we know the outcome of the trade talks, I really don't know.

The EU needs to stop playing games. Time to Tango, Barnier!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

... and the sad thing is that certain politicians in this country such as Nick Clegg, George Osborne and Tony Blair would happily do the EU's work for it simply in order to undermine the Brexit process and get their way in spite of the referendum result. Meanwhile Labour sits back with no credible policy simply making mischief for their opponents without a care for the damage it's doing to the UK's interests and the amount the UK will have to fork out for the privilege. I'd have less of a probme with that if they wanted to stay in but they don't and what they're doing is pure cynical opportunism.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You can deal the Irish border question before trade talks start, after all Brexiters were telling us it wouldn't be an issue.

The government has already ruled out the prospect of either staying in the single market or the customs union. So either they're going to give a exemption to Ireland or they are not. Where your border starts is not a topic for a trade deal.

---------- Post added at 21:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------

Maybe it's time for the people who led the Vote Leave campaign to tell us their ideas for all these problems they said wouldn't be issue instead of blaming people on the losing side who are now out of office anyway.

They wanted this, they're in charge, this is their responsbility. Suddenly Ireland is going to be a problem, as anyone would have guessed, and they're blaming everyone else. They've had a year and a half. Where is their answer?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Why are there so many problems/issues with Brexit? It's such a good well thought out way forward, that surely the mere thought of it will give our economy a massive boost? Yet the opposite seems to have happened, and the outlook for the UK is grim compared to other EU countries. Our growth rate is lower than that of the Eurozone, and the lowest in the G7.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8028891.html

It's an utter mystery, as it's a brilliant idea, what can of possibly gone wrong?? .....:rolleyes:.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We embarked on a river trip without any paddles or a compass.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What on earth has the Irish border got to do with trade talks? I'm afraid you've lost me.

---------- Post added at 22:52 ---------- Previous post was at 22:50 ----------

That's all Project Fear Mr K sorry Project Reality! Trouble was some people glibly believed what Farage and BoJo said without any supporting evidence.

---------- Post added at 22:55 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

The Vote Leave capaign's default answer is to blame the EU; anything more sophisticated than this should not be expected from them. They like power but not the responsibility and owership of problems that go with it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Last time I checked, Vote Leave was a campaign. It ceased to be a campaign after 23rd June 2016.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Plenty that is for sure Mr K unless our great HMG and the EU start to impart then themselves with some common sense reality of the world instead of the Utterly predictable dogma that comes from both sides currently.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So? The people who led it are largely still in office and it’s not unresponsive to ask them for ideas and responsibility in enacting the vision they argued for.

It’s pretty typical that Vote Leave or any of their leaders are excused from any responsibility but somehow those in the Remain who aren’t even in government are seemingly responsible for solving this all.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You are totally incorrect. For a start, nobody I know has asked anyone in the Remain camp for ideas, because their ideas are not to leave the EU at all in the first place, just look at Vince Cable for Lib Dem’s screaming for a Second referendum, that’s not what I envision as a ‘good idea’, we’ve had one, we are not having another.

You say so, the people you say are still in office, ARE trying to enact a vision, some of them want a hard brexit with no settlement but they cannot just act on their own accord. Plus some of them would be acting outside their Cabinet positions, hell, Boris has tried and just look at the flack he’s got and slap downs and screams to get him fired, which has been a bit pathetic actually.

Every step of the way, hardline Remainers are trying their best to thwart the Democratic decision that was taken on June 23rd, 2016, they have no ideas post brexit, other than to do their best to halt, delay and stop the leave process.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Good so they can solve this Irish border problem rather that it being somehow Osborne, Blair or Cleggs fault.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I really don’t know how you can say ‘somehow’, unless you have been hiding under a rock, and you haven’t, because you follow stuff like this, closely, like me.

They do have some blame, it was only the other week, Clegg was seen in Brussels, with Ken Clark, Lord Adonis, having a meeting with the Chief Negotiator, Barnier, wtf were they doing there and what were they discussing?

All three of them Europhiles, scheming and plotting, they all have the same goal, to stop brexit. Quite frankly they had no right to be there at all.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Because this Irish border problem seems to be everyone's responsibility but ours. This was flagged as an issue before the vote, the Irish government said as much before the vote, the question of the Good Friday agreement was brought up before the vote and the Irish government brought it up again after the vote.

Suddenly as it becomes more pressing the Brexiters in Government are having a go at Ireland and the EU without having any answers themselves and since they said it wouldn't be an issue before the vote it's time to ask them what they had in mind? Customs Union?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Source

---------- Post added at 10:12 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------

Source

More project fear demons slain.:)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The status of the Good Friday Agreement is a tough one to negotiate. I saw a nice picture summarising the issues of immigration for start but here's an overview...

• The GFA states that there must be free movement between the South and North. Stopping this will break the agreement and anger republicans
• As part of the UK, there should be free movement between the North and Great Britain. Stopping this will anger unionists
• As part of the EU, there must be free travel between the South and the rest of the EU. Stopping this will put Ireland in breach of the Maastricht Treaty
• As part of Brexit, we might want to restrict immigration from the EU. Stopping this will annoy the 33% of Leave voters who cited immigration as the most important reason to leave

I honestly don't know where we can go from here without someone losing out

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Let the whole of Ireland stay in the EU.

The Irish who who want to remain in the EU can stay there, those who don't can move to the UK.

Fill the wet bit in the middle with mines.

See, even a simpleton like myself can sort out the mess :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not sure the DUP will be massive fans of that. :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Poxy remoaners trying to thwart brexit, was a perfectly reasonable idea inconveniencing as few (hundred thousand) people as possible and laying a few mines, what could be simpler, the suggestion that migrants would be laying the mines as no brit fancied the job of being blown to smithereens is no more than project fear rearing its ugly head again

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think it was a joke....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Exactly. We need to train those job-dodging lazy Brits in the fine arts of mine-laying. It would soon give them a bit of get up and go! :D

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:36 ----------

In your favour - unlike gormless Gove et al - you do have a plan of sorts. Well, more of sorts than a plan! :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think they all were, well mine was at least

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just a thought. How many Irish living in the UK voted for Brexit? Somebody must have done a survey.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well none, if they're Irish (Republic of) they wouldn't have got a vote.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That is a non-valid statement...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36316467

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Are you a Cyberman in disguise Hugh ;)

In that case suspect they voted to Remain (if they've any sense !) The residents of Gibraltar certainly made their feelings known.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That is ia really good question - how did non-UK voters vote, especially the Irish. I have been doing some digging with little success. I found this link - https://www.qub.ac.uk/brexit/Brexitf...,728121,en.pdf on voting patterns in orthern Ireland but that is more identity than where people were born. 87% of people who identify themselves as Irish voted Remain in that study.

There's the Ashcroft polls as shown here - http://researchbriefings.files.parli...9/CBP-7639.pdf for all non-UK born voters. The data is on page 22 (for statistics fans, the R2 value was 0.35 so not a hugely strong correlation)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

One of the benefits of a secret ballot.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So my master plan isn't so far fetched after all :D


. . . :scratch: *looks at the Isle of Wight and grins mischievously* :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Brexit bill has been agreed. €45-€55 million but it’s been fudged so that the UK can say it’s toward the lower end of the scale and the EU towards the higher end. The EU were looking for €60 million whereas we started at about €20 million.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Do you mean billion, slight difference !!?? That's a lot of money, and a lot more than nothing, that some swivel eyed loons claimed.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We’re spending €50 billion on Brexit. Let’s spend it on the NHS instead. :D

Seriously though I don’t care that much. These figures aren’t that much in the scale of government budgets. If leaving the EU costs 1% of GDP a year over several years then that would cost us a lot more. If it increased GDP by 1% over several years then it would pay for itself. Obviously the increase doesn’t go right into the government coffers but still...

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:22 ----------

Also I imagine the bill is spread across several years. Still a lot but like the £350 million figure a bit silly.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:23 ----------

Downing Street is denying it

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------

https://www.ft.com/content/cabf22e2-...a-d9c0a5c8d5c9

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But this still does not solve the other 2 issues? The NI Border and EU citizens rights in the UK ..

On the latter, I suspect the UK will accept some level of EU Court oversight whereas the former is the real "elephant in the room" :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Just out of interest, a Twitter poll has been conducted by on what people think of the Brexit bill agreed in principle tonight...

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1511907719

52% Think it's too much, no deal.
48% Think it's worth it to keep Access to EU trade.

Exact same percentages as the EU Referendum result itself.

Sample size is over 3,000. votes.

And yes I voted it's too much, we are bending over backwards with that bill, we need to haggle the costs down better.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Sample size doesn't really matter so much when it's a self-selecting poll. Tim Montgomerie will likely have a more politically engaged and right-leaning set of followers although I suspect the public reaction will still be equally mixed with more passionate Brexiters being angrier.

As I said before I think it's a lot of money but a sum which can be paid for or dwarfed depending of the resulting impact on the economy.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I certainly agree that we should pay for whatever we committed to pre brexit vote, IMHO that is the right thing to do. I would not agree to a penny extra if it were a punitive payment that the EU wished to extract.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But have you not said many times before in this thread that whatever we pay as long as we are out of the EU is a price worth paying Mick?.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Mick's also said we shouldn't need to pay anything....:shrug: Apparently we do !
They wanted 60bn, we offered 20bn and we've ended up at 50bn; think we know who's won that one !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We are bending over on everything by the look of it. The final deal is going to be interesting, a massive bill and leaving in name only with no say or veto over the direction we get dragged along in, no one going home, the EU still holding sway over our courts, put like that I think we should really explore what leaving without a deal would look like.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Forget the rest, Viz is your go to news site!

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/11/19.jpg

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 ----------

I thought polls were not your thing :)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's only a notional bill, remember nothing's agreed until everything's agreed. No decent trade deal and the money's not payable.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You thought wrong. Nowhere did I say in that post above, that I agreed with the polls findings, read it again, I said it was ‘interesting’, that the current poll results matched the actual referendum results.

Mainly MSM polls I had problems with, you know the ones that said Crooked Hillary Clinton had 90% chance of becoming President on the US Election Day night, thank god they were monumentally wrong.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Quite but we won't let that get in the way of the inevitable and ridiculous 'it's more than the £20bn they promised blah blah blah' argument some people will employ. Wasn't that long ago that some were whining on about being the final bill £100bn...

The way some people like to carry on anyone would think staying in the EU would be cost free and risk free but they don't ever seem to want to acknowledge the ongoing problems over there for some strange reason... :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 ----------

:tu:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Is it me, or are the Brexit evangelists increasingly sounding like they are still trying to convince themselves that this is still a cool idea ??
The amount the govt have offered has suddenly increased by 150%, sounds like panic; the EU are calling the shots and we're jumping when told to their timescale.
Wasn't going to cost us anything according to some, in fact we'd have that £350m extra for the NHS each week and we'd all live happily ever after .... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's you!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No it's not you, and when was it ever a cool idea :shocked:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yep, agreed, but watch his very ‘few’ remainer buddies on here come to say it’s not. :rolleyes:

I don’t know what this trying to convince ourselves is all about either. I am already convinced and have been for years, it is good for the country why we are leaving the failing project, the EU is already crumbling around us.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Can you provide a link for that utterly unfounded assertion? You really can't be allowed to get away with baseless comments like that... :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

£20 billion more is lot, twice as much in fact, so it's a valid complaint even if I think it's a pointless one. The gross figure is likely to be nearer £100 million but we'll actually pay half of that once it all works out.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I wasn't making a serious comment about the figure because of course it is pointless. I have no more idea what the final 'bill' will be than you do. I was merely making a point about what some people would be saying since this figure had been released and they rather like conflating campaign bus slogans with govt. spending pledges. ;)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

If anything Mick it's the other way round, we're the ones in the slow lane, while the rest of the EU economies outpace us

---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:33 ----------

Careful now, that eye will start swivelling ! It does seem to have come as shock to some Brexiters that it's going to cost big time. It's wake up time to Project Reality, the fairy story is over.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

My God Mr K, you're managed to convince me this time. I have now stocked a small corner of my garage with essential items to see me through the darkest months of Brexit.
To protect my stash from the (soon to be) hordes of slightly miffed Southerners, I have fabricated a bow and some wonky arrows using branches from my apple tree. I fear the bow may not work as intended, but smearing brown boot polish beneath my eyes and affecting a look of sultry indifference may cause them to back off before nasty name calling ensues.

I also have a cunning plan to convert my hot water Immersion tank into a suit of body armour . . . if you hear nothing else from me, it means I probably forgot to disconnect the element from the electricity supply :dozey:

p.s. will Asda candles burn brighter than Tesco ones?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

:rofl:

I'm surprised so many of those who spend their days predicting doom are still here and haven't joined the mass exodus they've predicted from the UK to that veritable paradise (AKA the EU) before it's too late and we're cut off from civilisation forever... :shrug: :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No it is not, you are categorically incorrect.

The EU will not be able to survive in a unbalanced economic vacuum and this is exactly what it is. 28 Members, (soon to be 27 and that day cannot come any quicker) Of these Countries of which only 10, it will be 9 once we leave of them make a net contribution, it is unsustainable.

Most of your story telling has been reasonably fictional, as already outlined.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I bow to your expert wisdom Mr Mick !

It is strange though, that we have almost totally met the EU cash demands, and to the timescale they gave us. Who is more desperate?
And why is our economy flatlining and theirs is steaming way ahead ? Have the markets/industry got it totally wrong ? (they rarely do).

Re: Brexit discussion
 

As usual you're completely wrong:

Source

But hey, let's not let some pesky facts get in the way of closed mind opinion.:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That Sun link is a little misleading saying the UK is most prosperous country in Europe. Here are where we stand on that Index;

For the complete index;

Globally, we are 10th in the world
In Europe, we are 7th
In the EU, we are 5th

Comparing us to the rest of the EU, here's where we stand;

• Economic quality - 4th behind Sweden, Netherlands and Denmark
• Business environment - 1st - I guess this is why the Sun is saying what it did
• Governance - 6th behind Finland, Sweden, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Denmark
• Education - 3rd behind Netherlands and Finland
• Health - 10th behind Luxembourg, Austria, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Finland, Spain and France
• Safety and security - 10th behind Austria, Malta, Netherlands, Ireland, Luxembourg, Spain, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and Germany
• Personal freedom - 12th behind Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Finland, Portugal, Belgium, Sweden, Malta, Denmark, Spain and Germany
• Social capital - 7th behind Denmark, Malta, Ireland, Netherlands, Finland and Austria
• Environment - 8th behind Slovenia, Finland, France, Latvia, Luxembourg, Estonia and Sweden

In 9 indicators, we lead in 1. Business environment measures a country’s entrepreneurial environment, its business infrastructure, barriers to innovation and labour market flexibility. This along with Economic quality are probably the two indicators that are most likely the be affected by Brexit.

I think The Sun may be cherry picking data there...

Edit - apologies, here's the data - http://www.prosperity.com/rankings

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's unlike them!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Since when did The Sun become a reliable source?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

When it's hidden behind the word Source :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It makes it hard to have a debate when unreliable sources are used. Some people love the tabloids for confirmation bias. The broadsheets have their points of view but they do at least have commentators with different opinions and don't resort to the cherry-picking and use of disreputable "experts" as deployed by papers like The Sun.
They also contain lazy journalism. We saw that with the recent Mail story about the Oxford Street incident which mistook an accident happening on 14 November as part of the 24 November situation.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0649480742255

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think The Sun is a very reliable source of solar energy, radiating heat and generating lots of light during the day time... ;) It is just a pity the UK has not had very much of it this year. :Sun:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Surprised no one has mentioned the net immigration figures released today, wonder why :scratch: