Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

shame I beat ya to it ;)

the system does not work the medicals are flawed and always have been. The weakest the poorest and the most in need are suffering as I say I am not comfortable with that but you are I believe?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

How about you just answer the question instead of ducking it ,What about those who are swinging the lead or just plain faking an illness because it's easier than working ,they've managed to fool their gp and the specialist? who will assess them

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I already answered it with my post before yours . Making demands of me will never end in getting you what you want marty

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The GPS and Consultants don't really consider the possibility of the patient lying, ATOS etc do.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Lying is one thing.

Being able to put a pen in your top pocket, another.

that pen and pocket costs peoples lives.
that pen and pocket pay Atos.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yes but as I said a liar is better equipped to blag their way through than a honest patient telling the truth and getting stitched up

The only way I see to catch them would involve a lengthy and expensive fraud investigation but then at least they could claw back some of the funds

All evidence I have seen clearly shows the work capability assessment is flawed and innocent people suffering which is wrong simple as. Do you think its ok for a few lives ruined to stop a few who lie? Is collateral damage acceptable ?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Looking forward to seeing the evidence you have to back up that claim

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

all the evidence I need has been posted and the TV show I referred to months ago proves it all this argument has gone on and on for months

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

In that case, blame the person, not the system

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

no

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I haven't seen it.

Provide links to the program and the other sources you submit

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

done it a long time ago not gonna do it again

this thread is almost a year old I will pick and choose the bits I repeat. Pretty much everything has been said here multiple times over and over

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Says it all, refusal to criticise those that set out to cheat the system, but nothing but vitriol and venom that have to work within it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Please :)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yeah pretty much ATOS imo deserve no better. I have not applauded the cheats either just for balance just posted my opinion on how the cheats are better equipped to get through the assessment than the honest person ergo test flawed ( see I can repeat when I want)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Which claim?

Atos are puppets, or beating the poor to appease the tax payer?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well I'll assume it's because you can't, not surprising really.

Pretty much the way you pick and choose the facts, n' est pas?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

this forum is English speaking only

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Thanks for clarifying your position.

We can clearly see your values, thank you for clarifying that.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:41 ----------

Both. You have something to present to the group Gary?

---------- Post added at 22:44 ---------- Previous post was at 22:43 ----------

So speak it then?

Don't dodge the point,

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yeah my values protect the poor and weak yours from what I gather are root out the cheat whatever the cost to others. I know which I side I am comfortable on

it is in the T&C and I do not follow instructions from normal members

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

So you want evidence that Atos are puppets?

Not muppets?

Marty's a tax payer. he's pleased about it.
there's thousands of Marty's that are pleased.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I don't like to deal in emotional rhetoric, such as above. It is the vehicle of this those that have no evidence to back up their argument.

I refer you back to your statement

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35674538-post921.html

Still waiting for your evidence.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

so like I care if you like it or not

lol and I told you it is all already here I am not going to go looking for it if you are that bothered you look

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think a lot of it may be at the beginning of the thread.
I'll have a look in a bit to see if I can find it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes.

And that they are

.?

---------- Post added at 22:56 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------

A well reasoned argument backed up with facts and empirical evidence.


Not. Ha ha ha ha.

pathetic

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think Tiz was referring to the government appeasing the tax payers. not Atos.

it looks like a separate statement he made.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

this is the show that proves ATOS have worked to DWP targets even though they have consistently denied doing so. DWP are a government department and therefore my opinion that ATOS are government puppets

It also shows up other lies ATOS have spun all along

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwg...t-filming_news

---------- Post added at 22:59 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------

I was yes

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think I should go to bed.

Night, night.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Sweet dreams.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

:zzz:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You cannot full a specialist with crohns, and yet ATOS are taking crohns patients off benefits despite the true facts of there illness and how severe it is. The barium enemas,mri scan,scope, ct scan all show this illness and how severe it is as it can vary, CT scan demonstrates inflammatory mass in the right lower quadrant ... MRI demonstrates thickening of the wall of the right colon, tests need to be done to confirm the patient has crohns the first is usually a barium followed by a scope then a scan ... I do wonder how many other illnesses ATOS do this with...ignore the facts and prove as to how severe the illness is ...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What's wrong with 'appeasing' tax payers instead of simply screwing them over and treating them like cash cows as in the recent past.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

as long as you realise that is what they are doing and not really getting anywhere else other than urinating in the wind and wasting anything saved on the Universal credit fiasco

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The thing that's wrong with it in the case with Atos, is that they are claiming people are fit for work when they're not.

but it's not for anyone's good or benefit. because the chance or likelihood of them getting a job is practically zero.
it's good and benefits the taxpayer, as most of them are sheep. a sheep that at one time may have opened the door, helped them across the road. and in some cases felt sorry for them.
but not now. now they want them to stop faking and get up and walk.

but they're not expected to get a job anyway.

fit for work. simply means a cut in money.
they probably won't be bothered again. they probably don't get asked about if they've got a job yet by a government body.
as long as they accept that they're fit for work and take the cut in money. any government body is happy enough.


that's all it is about. that's what it's always been about.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

and how exactly do you know that ,how do you know that a cancer sufferer(for eg) is not well enough to work ? are you basing your evidence on the fact that ATOS said they can work so the decision must be wrong

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

the large number of successful appeals

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You really have no notion at all about the aim of the welfare changes do you

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Is the cancer sufferer the one who's got a few months left to live?

or is it the other one?

---------- Post added at 23:41 ---------- Previous post was at 23:40 ----------

I do.
it's all about pleasing the tax payers. and using the poor/disabled/sick as a scapegoat and a smokescreen.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

AH so let me get this right .........most people get what they need

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I don't understand what you mean?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

This thread had better start looking like adults are posting in it [over the next few pages] or its days are numbered.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

The Sun Link - Says it all!

Why do people pay to read crap like this?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I am obese as well, yet I don't blame others for my weight. Shows what type of person she is, expecting something for nothing all the time. Hope the NHS tells her where to go, I would be furious on behalf of taxpayers if she gets a gastric band fitted.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

'Lavish' - Haha, I don't know who's worse, the Sun or this plank of a woman. Obviously I do - both.

Why would anyone agree to doing a story like this, it's only going to make this cretin out to be worse, whatever backlash she gets from this she deserves.

I'm not sure what is supposed to make my blood boil though, most probably that people like this really exist maybe, but no more than some members and their comments on here.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I recently saw a TV documentary featuring a guy, in his early 30's IIRC, who'd become extremely overweight but had decided he needed to do something about it and did. Rather than opt for a gastric band, many months of hard work and a better diet yielded amazing results except for the fact that he was left with a massive amount of very unsightly loose skin dangling from around his abdomen and chest. Having done so much to change his life he approached the NHS for an operation to remove some of the excess it but was refused. This guy was in a low paid job as a school dinner cook but, rather than give up, he decided to try to raise the money c. £5k required to have the operation done privately so took on another job and started raising money by obtaining sponsorship for various physical 'iron man' type challenges.

I must say I felt very sorry for him but found his attitude exemplary and a fine example of what can be done with the will. I also feel the NHS rather let him down given all his hard work but there are always winners and losers when it comes to getting treatment.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It wouldn't surprise me if she was actually working and not on benefits.
and that she didn't demand anything.
and that The Sun is making it all up :)

Mr L

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

£160 a week? She must be using her kids allowance too then. I bet they don't wear shoes and live on a bread and water.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I don't know.
I have never understood why people approach someone like The Sun with a story like this. have their photo taken and published.
and then on top of your photo have "WARNING: This story will make your blood boil"

it's a lot easier just to get an 'actor' to do it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You could say being on benefits is keeping her weight down, if she was working and earning £250+ week she would be about 40st at least by now. Then she'd be blaming her employer for giving her too much in wages.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

It seems she's always been overweight.
maybe she's not actually blaming it on her lavish benefits. maybe The Sun is?

http://www.itv.com/news/topic/obesity/?page=2

Some videos of her, but they're not loading here.
http://www.itnsource.com/en/shotlist...T13011445/?v=1

LOL you have to buy them. that's why!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think it's hilarious that in this case you are prepared to doubt the story as factual because it shows a benefit claimant in a bad light ,yet when the story is about claimants "suffering" and losing out you believe it unconditionally .

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

Wouldn't she be classed as disabled now ? i can't read the article because it's behind a paywall and i'm damned if i'm going to pay to read such crap

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I said I can never understand why people like this go to the media.

that's all.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

yeah right ;)

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Oh so only people who believe they have been treated unfairly by the benefits system are allowed to go too the media? Oh ok, this woman is entitled to tell her story.

An I'm glad I've read it, it backs up just how easy a life on benefits can be!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

You ought to read the Mail and the Star, you'll have a field day. There's plenty of these types of stories in those sites / papers just for people like you. :p:

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I didn't say that.

At least you said, can be.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Apologies for my absence had a hospital visit this morning so had to try and get some kip last night. To answer your point Marty yes there are people faking and some of them do get away with it but the majority play a type of benefit shell game they claim sick up to the six month point where things get harder in terms of both NHS examinations and DWP evidence requirements. They then sign off and go claim JSA for a bit until there faking causes the jobcentre to suggest going back onto the sick it is a pattern that could be recognised if the system was improved. Then you have the hardcore who put in a great deal of time and effort perfecting their faking reading up on the internet and hanging around physiotherapy departments watching for people with obvious problems.

All that said there are a lot of very debilitating illnesses that cannot be faked and are well known in terms of the limiting effect they have on sufferers and many people with those illnesses have been found "fit for work". I can only speak of my personal experience of NHS consultants the three I'm under at the moment have all signed people off their lists when they feel they are better or in some cases never had a problem. First time I was waiting to see the rheumatologist consultant he chased a person down the corridor telling them loudly he didn't see people that had no problems and then told the reception to remove the person from his list and make no more appointments. I didn't know at the time he was going to be my consultant and a few of us were laughing and hoping he wasn't our consultant. There are more consultants like him then will allow people to waste their time these days.

Also testing these days has progressed to the point where they cannot always make a concrete diagnosis but can tell if a problem exists thus slowly making it harder to pull the wool over eyes. But that only applies to people that are on the sick longterm I would like a proper reform where any and all tests are done within weeks of signing on the sick that would cut the numbers of fraudsters down significantly. Once again I'll state I have no problem with welfare reform and people having to justify their benefit but despite what many of the public think this current so called reform process is doing absolutely nothing to cut fraud and is simply cost cutting by any means necessary if anything it's helping frauds at the expense of the genuine.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well it's pretty obvious that it was going to happen.

You can't expect to tell someone who's already suffering poverty, and not able to eat, and pay electric and gas. that their money is being stopped by way of an obligatory sanction. and expect him or her to say "Oh, ok then"

Another thing is. if you're near to a jobcentre. don't say to someone "Get a job! you workshy scrounger!"
he or she might be in a bad mood at the time :)

http://www.sundaypost.com/news-views...-bite-1.187481

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

life for some is easy on benefits but for a lot it is anything but

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There is no excuse for being abusive or physical with job centre staff and anyone who is I hope feels the full weight of the law. There is an appeals process for people to go through and cessation of benefits is put on hold once it is clear you will appeal that's the way to respond not by attacking either verbally or physically staff at the job centre. Whilst I understand the frustration many feel and how unfair they feel the system is they must not descend to the level if the yob as a means to express their anger and frustration.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I agree Rizzy. but what if the staff member has an 'attitude' with the claimant?
the staff member is taking great joy in stopping the claimants money?

it's ok saying to someone "don't react, and just breathe."
but the way people are now. you have to expect it.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think you will find that most people who are attacking staff are the same people who feel it is their right to live on benefits and make very little or no attempt to get work or provide for themselves .They are the ones who will get violent when they realise that the games up and they will have to make more of an effort and the fact that you are prepared to blame the staff says everything we need to know about you and your attitude .

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Ok, thanks for your assumptions anyway.

Me?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think there is no way of knowing the circumstances of any individual so this post is pure speculation. The way some people are treated I can understand the frustration and can see why some would crack.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I agree. I can see why some would crack. and I can see why they would do it.
Even the staff are expecting it. it's not as if they're saying "I don't know what's come over people lately. it must be something in the water"

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I have only experience with two job centres and I have found SOME staff in both of those rude / ignorant / abusive.

But others were helpful and well informed. I expect this is going to be the case in a lot of businesses.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

But that's a good point.
why should any staff in a jobcentre be rude/ignorant/abusive?
was it towards yourself, or what you observed?

did you give them any reason to be either rude/ignorant/abusive towards you?

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Myself.

Yes I went to sign on without looking at their computer Pod things. Which is because I can't see them.

On another occasion I was refused to go on a course as they told me it couldn't be made accessible which is fine but the attitude I got for this was quite bad and I got told I 'may be faking it'.

I could go on with other points but there's no need. As I said there are good people there too. Once I got past the front so to speak and saw the DEA things were different.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Gary I've been on the end of patronising,rude and ignorant staff and have never reacted verbally or physically because I'm better then that you say "thank you" get up and walk out it's that simple. I've also had some fantastic advisors that couldn't do enough to help me so like every other sector of society it's hit and miss and like everything else you choose how you deal with it. Marty you've clearly got a single vision on the whole welfare situation and there is no debating with you many have tried and your not open to any of it sadly your one of a growing number that is turning this into a them and us situation designed to create tension.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I think C4 or someone should do a fly on the wall documentary with Jobcentres.
so we can see all angles and sides of it. by way of the attitudes of the staff and claimants. and how the whole process works.

you can see whether it's easy or hard. without having to guess or be told.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Do you actually think they'd do an impartial documentary? I have a very strong feeling it would be like Benefits street and that was hardly impartial.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Probably not.

but it would be great telly!

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Lot's of people would watch it for sure but I don't know about great telly.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That's just pathetic nonsense ,there is no "them and us" that is a myth started by people like you ,Tiz and Gary .The only issue i and most normal people have is with the workshy ,lead swingers and fakers ,NOT with people in genuine difficulty.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

but they are getting hurt more than the others and you accepting the policies accept the collateral damage which is what I have issue with

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I've tried being reasonable in this thread and got nothing back from you Marty except your perception of the how the system works and throwing out assumption after assumption if you looked you'd have seen I rarely agree with tiz or Gary yet now according to you I'm the same lol.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Well you're them, and we're us. so there's your 'them and us'?

Dave's 'them and us' is those working, and those that aren't.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

"Benefits made me 23st" - err, no, binging on food made you 23st. :dozey:

After reading it I wonder if 23 is her IQ as well.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...elfare-3178089


Earns over 600k from housing benefit then slams the welfare state

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

And those houses cost nothing to buy in the first place? Where would the tenants stay if somebody didn't rent the properties out. Renting works in France and Germany and they don't constantly bitch about it.

Is there ever going to be an end to this absolute drivel.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

That is not the point he makes money from housing benefit, then slams the benefits he is benefiting from through his tenants, the man is a total hypocrite ... he is making an income out of the benefits he profits from talk about biting the hand that feeds you ... Once again the rich getting richer from the poor ...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm just glad that it's all turning around eventually.
people are starting to see what's going on behind the smokescreen.

the truth is that everybody is on the fiddle and take.
we live for money.
these people make money out of the very people they criticise.
biggest load of hypocrites there is.

To put it into context how this is.

it's a bit like say you have a PM like Dave. and he keeps going on about being anti drugs and he's going to clamp down on it really hard.

and then 2 weeks later he got arrested for selling coke to some rich boys.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

plenty of people in work rent

you tell me if there will ever be an end of the drivel defence of these hypocrites in power?

Never been on a French or German forum to know what they do or do not bitch about TBH

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

What a load of rubbish .He belongs to a party that is cutting HB so the company will make less .He is only 1 of 6 directors of the company and looking at the below link i would doubt the Mirrors claim that he "rakes in " £625,000 and even if he did someone has to provide housing to unemployed people so what is the problem ?

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/0...ncial-accounts

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Those accounts are key financials and the company exercises the right of a total exemption so the Mirror has probably studied the actual accounts.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

IMO he is a a hypocritical person. Richest MP in Britain slams welfare state but makes £625k a year in housing benefit, but he will quite gladly take this benefit through his tenants through their housing benefit, the welfare state makes him and thousands and other's like him even richer. Without this benefit I wonder if most of his properties would be empty, who know's ... the problem is he is slating a benefit he benefits from therefore making him a hypocrite IMO ... maybe the Mirror is wrong, like you say you doubt he makes that amount, but at the end of the day he still is making out the benefits he slates ...

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Interesting I wonder if it'll be sorted before November when I'm due.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Is that your ESA dilli?.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yup I'm in the support group.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Yes l am in the support group as well but l have been awarded it indefinitely and l had another letter the other day just saying if my condition changes and improves please contact them straight away.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

There is no indefinite award for the ESA Support group. It's 3 years max (some say 2 years) before reassessment.

But there's nothing stopping them from reassessing you at anytime. Though with the changes now I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I'm on an 18month one. So I guess we shall see.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

At the end of my last assessment the doctor said further assessments weren't necessary don't know if that's because my illness is proven beyond any doubt and is progressive but certainly sounded indefinite to me. I just hope that a new company will mean a new system either way Dilli hope it is as easy as this can be for you :).

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

l never even had a medical as the evidence l sent in was overwhelming in regards to myself.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:42 ----------

Good luck dilli.

---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Did you request an ESA85a letter?

Anyone can stay in the support group indefinitely as long as nothing changes and you fill in the ESA50 forms every 1-3 years. Not having a face to face assessment doesn't mean any more or less than having one.

The fact you included the all the evidence, letters etc they needed was the reason you didn't have one (same as myself), people fill out the forms stating whatever but fail to include any proof so they are the ones that will be assessed.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

No l never requested any ESA85a letter Peanut.

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

I too am due November I was put on contribution based wrag but went into support group on appeal

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.
 

Good luck with yours Tiz.