Re: Operation Yewtree
 

How much actual evidence was there at the time? It's easy to look back at something that happened 20, 30 or 40 year ago and say it was obvious that something happened, but that's with hindsight. At the time, there were rumours, but you know as well as I that you can't charge someone based upon rumour, and there may have been little or no evidence of what happened.

While it seems likely that there were people hiding this evidence (he did have friends in high places, after all), has anyone been charged or convicted of this yet?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

So yet another trial that has destroyed a persons life and yet the accusers can hide behind anonymity.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

there may be another trial yet

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

This is already turning into a fiasco like another Cleveland and there are still many more cases waiting to be heard.

Heads should roll over this.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I would not be surprised if found guilty then they would more than likely remove the anonymity and sell their story ...

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

In the case of dlt's trial some of his accusers went to the press before the police says it all really. Whilst I have total and unconditional sympathy with the victims of abuse I don't think there are as many in this current phase as are making out. We have a lot of chancers with an eye on a big payday at the hands of a celebrity. What really concerns me is the damage this could do will be seen in the future when victims won't be taken seriously or even feel they cannot come forward.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

:clap::clap::clap: I agree ...

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Oh dear! I can hear the pressure groups screaming that there aren't enough successful prosecutions and recent cases are even more proof of a legal system which always lets victims of abuse down... :rolleyes:

I hope DLT will be able to rebuild his life along with all the others who fall foul of what's starting to look like a witch hunt.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The faux outrage of certain newspapers about the 'failures' of the prosecutors and how much harm these ill-conceived prosecutions have done drives me mad. They clearly don't want to acknowledge that it's their frequent intrusion into private lives, incessant speculation and sensationalist reporting of tittle-tattle which adds so greatly to the ordeal the accused and their families suffer. :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-26183427

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The Jury took a while to decide, had to reach a majority verdict, and two of the charges couldn't be decided and may have to be retried. The guy is innocent but given all of that I don't think the CPS prosecuted on a whim.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

It's been looking like a witch hunt for ages IMO.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

same hear ,he's lost his house ,all his money and he has no job ,i really feel for the bloke

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

He will face a retrial: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...lt-allegations

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Can't say i'm surprised .This decision smacks of the CPS trying to justify prosecuting him in the first place.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Scary isn't it. anyone can be accused of anything, end up losing their savings, house, job, reputation, pretty much everything and still be found not guilty, but destroyed anyway.

Justice eh.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Indeed and the accusers name is kept secret in the process.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

He wasn't found not guilty of these crimes. The Jury could not reach a decision and therefore the CPS are retrying them.

---------- Post added at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

and so it should be. How many people do you think would go to the police to report abuse and/or rape if they're names would be broadcast across the media as a result?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Perhaps the person being accused then tried would be afforded that same courtesy too then, until (if) found guilty...

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yes I think that would be a good idea, unless a judge rules otherwise (i.e in case there are other alleged victims who may come forward).

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

which obviously means that the "beyond reasonable doubt" test was not met, for many of the Jury.

Which suggests the evidence is not compelling. Unless "new" evidence is available I would have to question the decision to re-try.

He was found not guilty of all the other charges.

I agree, but is the accuser has anonymity, then so should the accused.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

There are several winners in this operation.

The lawyers who must be charging the earth for there services. The accusers who are seeing their attackers in court.

BUT, so far out of all these cases NOT one person has been found guilty. I feel deep down that cases like these should NOT be brought to court unless there is concrete evidence to convict.

Put it this way, l was abused 30 years ago for a solid year by a member of the church, l told my parents - they done nothing, If l came forward and told the police ten years ago - where is the evidence. DNA wasn't even thought of then. The person is dead now and l got a letter from his mother just saying that he has passed away.
BUT, to me you cannot take things like this to court from an early age and try for a conviction - to me its impossible.

Also has anyone noticed that its Stars that are being tried.

Yes, all the evidence is now coming out of the woodwork about Saville - why didn't it come out when he was alive.

I feel that there should be a limit of when these cases can come to court- as again the evidence will have gone by then

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Stuart Hall?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

But it seems the Jury was split on this enough to be unable to find him not guilty either.

Not these two which are, IIRC, the more recent ones. It's also worth noting that the jury took a while to reach those verdicts too and still couldn't get a unanimous verdict so it suggests that, while he was not guilty of those crimes, the CPS hadn't prosecuted on a flimsy case.

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Don't get me wrong this is a big call from the CPS. If he is found not guilty then they'll be asked some serious questions.....

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I may be proved wrong, but I doubt a second jury will unanimously find him guilty if the same evidence is produced.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Wasn't found guilty, he changed his plea to guilty at the last minute before a trial started.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I don't think they should as a matter of course, certain claimants should though, like the woman in the bill roach case who couldn't be sure if she hadn't dreamt it.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Wasn't found guilty despite changing his plea to guilty, being sentenced and being currently banged up, he must have had one **** hot lawyer

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Let me correct that " those who see a pay check in it " I agree that there are more genuine accusers than non genuine but there should be anonymity on both sides until the case is over.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Techinically no he wasn't FOUND guilty.
If you plead guilty nobody FINDS you so...

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Either way, he was convicted of the crimes.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

That's a shame.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Wonder why it is taking the Rolf Harris jury so long to reach a verdict? Certainly on the count of sleeping with his daughters best friend at age of 13 he sounded guilty (not saying he IS, just saying he sounds it).

Whatever happens, he will never work on TV again (imo).

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

If they don't reach a verdict soon the judge will have to ask "Can you tell what it is yet?" :D

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

i always thought he was creepy singing a song about "Two little boys".

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

My mum has reckoned for years [Mod Edit - comment removed] but all I said to her was if you knew he had committed an offence why didn't you go to the police and report him. No answer to that from her.

[Mod Comment - please be careful posting comments that could be prejudicial or in contempt of court during active proceedings.]

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Sorry Hugh, didn't think.

Jury sent home and will resume tomorrow. Been 4 days and 17 hours of deliberations. I reckon either it will be declared a hung jury and we have this again or a majority verdict. Pure conjecture though, hopefully this doesn't break rules.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

New sickness

A report alleges Saville was a necrophiliac as well and made jewellery from glass eyes he stole
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-staff-3767600

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...bodies-3767280

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Jury out on Rolf . They come back asked some questions that lead me to believe we may see a no verdict


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...pdates-3766860

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Well, I won't say what I want to say. Am I allowed to when the verdict comes in?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Verdict in: Guilty

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28094561

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Taken their time, but pleased with the verdict. Evidence seemed pretty clear cut to me, but I suppose it wasn't to the jury. Oh well, the right verdict at last in one of these trials.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

We only see/hear a fraction of the evidence which is presented in court and the accompanying argument. I'd rather juries took time to properly consider their verdicts than rush them through for whatever reason.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Seems Leonard Rossiter is next despite the fact he's been dead for 30 years..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-Rossiter.html

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Just because someone is dead doesn't mean that victims will feel justice has been done.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Plus of course you can't libel the dead

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Rolf is going to Jail.

Do you think it'll be ok for me to sing Two little boys now and again still like I do?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

It may lead, little chap, to you having a mishap :)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

It's OK, he has special underwear for that.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Thought so. It's all that playing gayly each summer's day. Eventually special underwear is needed :)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

That's ok. Chris lent me some of his special underwear :)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Of all of the scandals this is the worse.

I mean .....Rolf!!!!

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

It's weird seeing the headlines for tomorrow. Rolf Harris the sex predator.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think Rolf is looking at, at least 10 years. He has already admitted sending a letter to the father.

I think the sentence will kill him. The biggest trouble is here, how many more ' dirty raincoat men' that's what l called them, when l got abused in my early days.

The sad thing is that WHY didn't the victims come forward earlier. Yes, l could have told people earlier, but the guy died over thirty years ago - the only one who knows is my wife.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

With Saville, I believe he told some of the victims that if they told anybody then he wouldn't be able to raise funds for some hospital in Stoke and that the patients would have to be moved or would die because of lack of funds. So I read somewhere anyway.

I predict that Rolf will only get 6 months on each count to run consecutively, ie one after the other. Hope I'm wrong but that is my prediction for sentence.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Not wanting to guess too much (having had the luck never to be in that situation), but the theme seems to be that victims felt they wouldn't be believed, and in many cases the abusers told them that over and over again.

Think back to when the first Saville rumours came out. Plenty of people point blank refused to believe them, and tarred the victims as "money grabbers". Who's your average copper going to believe, a vulnerable young girl or that man off the telly who just happens to know the chief constable?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

And also with the amount of females who claimed they were raped but lied about it must also cloud people's judgement as well. It seems now that any female who reports rape is put through such a lot of trauma with hardly anyone believing her. Look at that judge in a case where a bloke raped a 10 year old girl and believed the man's story that she had led him on or asked for it because of clothing she was wearing (can't find the article to link to it, think it was around 2 years ago though and it was in this country).

Sentiments like that make it harder for people to report sexual abuse. The attitude of everyone needs to change so that any and all allegations are treated equally until proven one way or the other. And anyone found to have lied about being raped deserves a custodial sentence, they should suffer as the man would have done had he been found guilty of a crime he had never committed.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The problem with that approach is that a woman who is unsure if she should come forward or not would then be thinking "If they don't believe me I'll end up in jail", and possibly less likely to come forward.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Judge: You have been found guilty of a number of despicable crimes and it is my solemn duty to pass sentence upon you today Mr Harris.

Rolf: I understand your Honour.

Judge: Well, can you guess what it is yet?

:)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I'm surprised there haven't been hordes of people demanding he be deported by now.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yeh send him back home where he came from!

Where's he come from?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Australia but we can hardly just send our criminals over there now can we?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Someone on the bus today said only the Chuckle Brothers left to ruin lots of childhood memories. Got to say, I agree. Grew up watching them, so any allegations would be a massive shock to me. Hope it never happens.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I've got my eye on that wee Jimmy Krankie. There's something not quite right there.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Sentencing today for Rolf. Unless he gets a really lenient sentence, whatever he gets will effectively be a life sentence for him. Likely he will die in jail.

It emerged today that he visited child porn websites, some even after being charged. Breathtaking arrogance by him. CPS say they will not prosecute for these images. Disgusting.

Also very telling that his wife has not come to court with him today. Wonder if she will divorce him?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

He's not going to die in jail unless it's very sudden. If he were to deteriorate significantly they'd let him out I reckon.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Im very surprised there is another name that's not been mentioned in operation yewtree.

I wont mention any names but hes been in showbiz for over 50 years and has always been seen inc his wife with younger women.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Harris jailed for 5 years and 9 months

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28163593

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I was nearly spot on, I said 6 months on each count to run consecutively. Would have come up to 6 years, so I was not that far off. Still think it is too lenient. Think age and health played a factor here though.

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/35711029-post986.html

Relevant post here.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The main limit for these kinds of sentences is that each count can only be sentenced with regards to the laws and guidelines in force at the time.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Do the victims get anything?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

They will probably sue him in the civil courts, saw a comment on the Mail website saying they hoped the victims wouldn't sue for money. Why shouldn't they get some sort of compensation for the trauma of his actions?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The flip side of that is that if the victims do sue, the likely result is that his immediate family (who are innocent) will suffer. Perhaps not to quite the same extent, but they will suffer.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The sentence is far too lenient. I was telling my mates - 15 years at least.

I cannot believe the sentence was five years and so many months. He will be out in three. These people dont deserve short sentences for the crime that they committed.
I hope when it goes before the attorney general - it gets increased to at least ten.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

So they the family can live a life that has partly been paid by abuse ?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

So you think Rolf was paid for abusing then ;)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Can't say I'm surprised Rolf was involved in such things, I always found him and Saville creepy as a kid.
Surprised the victims aren't automatically entitled to some form of monetary compensation.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The worrying thing about all this is that it's just going to reinforce the notion that some people look 'creepy' or 'dodgy' and are therefore likely to be guilty of something or other without any facts to back that up. A great many people automatically assumed the landlord in the Joanna Yeates murder case was guilty simply because he looked 'creepy'. They were wrong and he suffered greatly because of it.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Fairly certain Rolf was paid for being a TV presenter and cartoonist, not a child abuser.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Do people that do this, abuse, get 'kicks' if you like which drives them on may be not to do more but makes them feel good which in turn could possibly carry over into someones career ?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Wayne Rooney sleeps with prostitutes does that mean this has made him a better footballer and worth the 400k?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

From my couple of years in commercial radio in the past I came across a number of 'personalities'. If a person plays a big part in the listening/viewing figures for a station/programme/channel very often their ego gets inflated by a mixture of their own sense of self-importance as well as their employer accommodating their every whim in order to keep them there. I'm not suggesting anyone employing Harris, Saville or anybody else caught up in these scandals played a specific proactive part in what happened but if an individual is used to getting whatever they want to grab without being told 'no', add in the fact then many TV people get 'groupies' throwing themselves at them and you can see why Harris likely felt a sense of 'entitlement' with these women. And clearly given the ages of some of them, his (as well as that of Saville) fame allowed him to feel abiding by the law was optional at best.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

it happened during a period in which he was firing on all cylinders so yeah may be.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

Thats totally different to what I'm talking about.

Committing abuse must have given them a 'kick' or they wouldn't have done it right? Once you get a 'kick' of some sort do you not feel good spurring you on ?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

these guys abused their "celebrity" so were already established. IMO your statement was just wrong :)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I have never been abused by, or abused, anyone myself so I cannot say what goes through their mind, but I have read in the past that rape is often perpetrated because it gives the rapist a feeling of power over the victim. This is why it's perfectly possible for a heterosexual man to rape another man. It's not about sex, it's about exerting power.

Could it not be the same with Paedos? The likes of Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville were certainly in positions that gave them a lot of power. Perhaps they got addicted to that?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

you can increase and decrease in stature/status. Your statement is off the mark IMO.

---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:26 ----------

So when they felt a lapse in feeling powerful they abused. Did that sense of power carry them through life? Yes. Did that then carry into his career? Yes. Did they effectively **** on people? Yes. Why shouldn't the victims claim? Because his poor family will suffer?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The victims should claim yes but Rolf's income had nothing to do with abuse if anything in fact in how it has come to light people knew about what was going on ( in Saville's case so maybe Rolf's too) if anything it would have hampered them if anything and not aided as you seem to believe

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

huh?

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Well if I employed celebrities and there were rumours about them I may think twice. It is quite simple :)

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

could you please rewrite your post below. I don't fully understand.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

The victims should claim yes, but Rolf's income had nothing to do with abuse, in fact in how it has come to light people knew about what was going on ( in Saville's case so maybe Rolf's too).If anything it would have hampered them if anything and not aided as you seem to believe

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

thanks for copying and pasting something I didn't understand first time around.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I wouldn't be surprised if celebrities in general are going to be far more careful about what they do and with whom. This whole thing may well have a significant impact on charities and the extent to which celebrities in particular are inclined to become involved with the vulnerable and children especially.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

if you look I added some grammar it is quite simple to understand

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Sometimes they almost have it written in their 'riders' that they're provided with attractive assistants. When they're on such a power trip they are going to feel untouchable especially if as was rumoured with Jimmy Saville they've got powerful people in their pocket.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Those that commit abuse on others got a kick out of it. The empowered feeling they feel would push them on in life. Like for example some like to look good, they take care of themselves which gives them confidence. That then has a baring when pushing on in life. I'm not talking of others in on it or knowing of this abuse. I'm talking of those that have actually committed the abuse and how its had a baring on their life. They felt empowered by ******** on people. Those people shat on should be able to claim like you agree so by reaching a certain level or holding down a level of status by by ******** on people is related to the income received in that position they held.

---------- Post added at 16:48 ---------- Previous post was at 16:47 ----------

weak powerful people.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

but if there is a rumour saying they may be a nonce then it does not matter how good they feel about themselves others may still be wary and that may hold them back

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

I'm talking about the actual pricks that have committed these offenses not the weak morons that turned a blind eye. I'd sue both tbh.

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

But ones fame and fortune is not reliant on solely ones self

Re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yes I know but what has that got to do with what I'm trying to say. I'm looking solely at the person(s) committing the crimes. Having committed these crimes does it have an effect on their performances ?