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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Chrys, I feel your pain (almost). My service for the past few months had actually been relatively stable, so this sudden degradation to levels not seen for a year or so is quite disappointing. Especially as it comes at the culmination of a 15 month upgrade program - this is the best they could do?!
Remind me again when Infinity becomes available in your area? |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
by end of 2012.
currently on checkers its not showing at all tho. I fully agree, I still remember ignition selling these upgrades on this forum as the "upgrades to end all upgrades" sort of thing. It lasted a few months without struggling and then after that it slowly got to the stage its at now, it pretty much tipped over the month 100mbit was launched. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Yeah, at one point he did say they'd go overkill, then later revised it down to them only doing the bare minimum needed (no surprise there!). Shame about the end of this year though - it's been available where I live since mid last year but only signed up now (and good job I did). The Homehub 3 is, I must say, a beautiful piece of kit. Not to mention unlike the Superhub it's symmetrical and the indicators are absolutely lovely rather than ugly and distracting. And the few minutes I spent testing the wifi suggests it's actually exceptionally good in terms of signal quality and above average strength. Course, doesn't say much about the connection itself which I don't have yet!
What happened to Ignitionnet anyway? Not seen him around in ages, this place could do with another dose of his seemingly endless wisdom and sarcastic wit. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
openreach also are delayed in various areas so its quite possible I will be 2013+ :(
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
How do you switch US?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Interestingly the peaks I'm seeing on mine don't just seem restricted to my connection. Various hops on VM's core network, O2's core network, and my server provider are all showing increased latency around the same time of day. I wonder if some massively popular new TV show just came out or something...
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Hey I have an idea on making swapping upstreams easier... Find an electronic device that generates noise on your current upstream frequency and tie it up to your Superhub.
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login to the GUI http://192.168.0.1/ or if in modem mode. http://192.168.100.1/ select advanced then on the left change password then in that change password page choose to reset the device to defaults, you will lose any configuration you have done. this will cause the superhub to 'forget' your US channel and will do a new search when it reboots. There is a chance the same US channel will be picked again, if it is repeat the process. There is also a chance a different US channel will be no improvement and may even be worse. |
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They advertise the 50mb line as perfect for games. It isn't. The jitter ruins that, and as far as im concerned that's false advertising. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
It's worth nothing that jitter is higher on the SH compared to the VMNG... Don't know why though...
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I really want a Motorola 8x4 modem or even a Cisco...
Superhub is super annoying... and my VMNG300 was crashing too much... (Guess it was dying) |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
By obsolete, i meant to say that surely Virgin will be replacing them with units which can support the speeds at all times on all 8 channels.
--- On a different note, i received an e-mail off Jon Jones today who is the executive director of the broadband division at Virgin Media. --- Dear ********* Thank you for your email to Neil raising concerns about latency and jitter performance on your 50Mb service. I run our broadband product and Neil has asked me to respond. Please rest assured that we do take latency and jitter performance seriously, not least given their importance to the gaming community. The most reliable analysis, in our view, comes from Ofcom which reports on both measures in its bi-annual speed performance report. The latest report, published earlier this month, showed that on average, latency on our 50Mbit/s service (19ms) is better than ADSL (21-36ms) and comparable with BT Infinity (18ms). And similarly on downstream jitter, our 50Mbit/s service (0.25ms) is better than ADSL (0.50-0.80ms) and comparable to BT Infinity (0.30ms). As a Virgin Company, we are always looking at ways to improve services for our customers; specifically, we are currently working to further improve latency and jitter performance ... both the overall average and for the small minority of customers experiencing significantly belowperformance. However, your experience is clearly in the latter category and out of line with our national performance .... I am particularly concerned that you have noticed your performance deteriorate over the past few months. I would like to get one of my team to look into your specific broadband connection, to ensure there is no local congestion or other technical issues. If you could send me your customer account number and postcode, then we can investigate further and arrange a tech visit if necessary. Thank you again for getting in touch and my apologies that you are experiencing poor service. I hope we can resolve rapidly. Yours sincerely, Jon James Executive Director, Broadband Virgin Media --- This is probably just a standard response given that he decided to throw the cherry picked ofcom results in there, but i kindly sent him a small portfolio of jittery virgin media customer's think broadband graphs shown alongside some BT infinity customers in a reply. Nothing will probably get done but.. meh, you have to try i suppose. At least he took the time to respond! |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
i like they way they dont mention upstream jitter
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Indeed, there's always a loophole or a way to manipulate something to look in your favour.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
are you still in contract? if not reply with the address of BT Infinity
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I am indeed, BT Infinity isn't available in my area yet, not sure when it will be but give TS10 a try.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Those are some cherry picked figures. What he dosent mention is that at peak ADSL beats VM's jitter and that 30meg cable has less jitter than 50meg.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Funily enough, a small town near me has it, yet mine being bigger, doesn't haha. Ah well. Not on the roadmap either. Drat.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
i didn't see any of that on there, or when i took a look especially. I haven't called them, im only just half way through a 12 month atm anyway.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
VM price increase can get you out of contract. thats if you can get infinity
chat with them via... http://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact#h...U2MzgsNTYzOSJ9 |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Is that so?
I've just spoken to a guy on their chat app you linked me to. He's going to ring me tomorrow and connect me to their team who will provide me more info. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
yup. theres massive thread(s) on here confirming bye bye VM/price increase. Good luck with your call back :D
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the only ones that seem to not have it are some people who post on here. Although that number is declining. eg. seph used to have a perfect connection and his has gone downhill. The ASA told them to fix it or stop advertising perfect gaming, that was some sort of pressure and that wasnt enough, VM simply instead stopped the perfect gaming ads. For this to be fixed they need a rehaul of their capacity management policy which will likely mean either higher retail prices or the scrapping of unlimited use, since both conflict with VM sales they very unlikely. The rumoured protocol immune shaping seems to have gone dead. My guess is they found it didnt work as well as they had hoped, killing speedtest speeds etc. ---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ---------- Quote:
my superhub has noticeble jitter even at 4am and when my graph looks ok (not great but ok). The vmng300 used to not show such jitter unless my graph looked quite a mess. The US channel my vmng300 locks onto has been calmer for a week or so, so I am tempted to get it activated again. The risk is if the channel gets very highly utilised again tho and I wont be able to jump channels. Given its apparently queued time slots that cause jitter it would be logical to assume the modem config is somewhat different on the vmng300 with the way it queues upstream packets. here is my graph right now, see yesterday was dodgy, then took till 4am for congestion to pretty much go away. Today it got congested before 10am but then suddenly clamed down and today so far is noticebly better than yesterday, with the graph how it is now the jitter is still noticeable at 11.42am. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
The "anomaly" is part of how VM cable works unfortunately, upstream bandwidth requests are basically a CSMA free for all and VM don't use any of the fixed timeslots or QoS or guaranteed latency features that have existed since DOCSIS 1.1
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
is there downsides to those features?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Takes money and brains to implement?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
may be because every man and his dog was more interested in free [Mod Edit] thats VM employees included even if they get decent deals. no one gave a toss. and heres a fact.. those in director positions didnt have a clue how bad it was which either meams their thick.. which i doubt.. turnt the other way which i doubt too or fed [Mod Edit]. which i think was the case. this is what i meant by getting rid of clones etc. then VM able to get somewhere positive. anyway with that off my chest... qas can they, VM improve latency etc? capacity is one thing thats obviously going to help but additional technologies.. would it cost them much to put such technology to good use?
also cabinet side.. i know therres the old old csbs that need upgrading but the newish ones? could they be upgraded to a better standard without fibre pulls? |
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Part of the problem is competition, BT's massive upload ratio has pushed VM to improve their upstreams (remember the 33:1 ratio on 50mb?) and this push is straining the network as VM has historically had pretty crap return paths in some areas. Cable networks were never built to take data, they were initially intended for one-way analogue TV. But if it weren't for competition we'd probably still be languishing on 30:1 download to upload ratios or worse. Quote:
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
What's happened here? Has the torrent freak finally downloaded all of the internet? Filled his hard drives? Suffering from ******s cramp?
Who knows. Whatever it is my TBB graphs are looking a lot better. I may even consider upping to 30Mbps so long as it's free (only a profile change when I downgraded so that's all it will be to upgrade). http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...22-02-2012.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
that graph still looks dodgy, just isnt as extreme.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Well it's a fairly big improvement on this one from 5th...
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...05-02-2012.png I'll see how things go. Right now I could get faster ADSL though as even with the fault it was doing ~ 15Mbps or so iirc. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Depends on your definition of extreme. My guess would suggest the one from the 5th shows severe upstream congestion and a moderate amount of downstream. The current one just shows lots of downstream with not too bad upstream.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...19-02-2012.png
Is it any wonder I'm leaving? And Kwikbreaks, muchos LOL at your cramp comment! ;) |
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I'm tempted to keep my VM line running for another couple months just to see how it goes once the upstream and downstream upgrades are done. So far the last 15 months of upgrades have given me a connection that's now 4 times slower than it was a year ago, another month won't hurt my wallet too bad. |
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[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
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I love the smell of jitter in the morning.
Or not! |
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http://[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
WTF somethings happened overnight............. EDIT: Looks like the neighbours are waking up!!!!!! |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
100mb still running great :D
I get these speeds 99% of the time, day or night. My graph also looks like this 99% of the time. Currently running with 5 downstream channels. Superhub in modem only mode connected to a Netgear WNDR3700 router. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/18.png [img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
SHOW OFF
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Have been with NTL/Virgin since 2002 and it's been an incredibly reliable service. Hope this is the info you're after. cpc10-neat4-2-0-cust[modedit:please do not post full rDNS].cable.virginmedia.com |
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nice one…. |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
This is mine, and it was a new one also, since last one did the same, but it seems my UBR is blocking all traffic incoming from thinkbroadband
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/17.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
@ DABhand - have you got ping response enabled within your router settings?
@ Radeon - very nice. |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Here's my 10Mb results for comparison prior to my upgrade to 50Mb (2 weeks away) The obvious slowdown is just Astranews running on 8 connections (about 8-10Gb worth) ;)
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Very respectable Kymmy. That's probably what mine looked like before i upgraded to 50 meg :)
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It was on, I see that it rectified itself. Strange. But router had WAN ping response enabled. |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Kymmy its when a high amount of data packets are being buffered on a network, it causes high jitter and latency when a network can't decide if it should buffer the packets of data or not :P
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Not being condescending here, but google it:
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bufferbloat Some very good descriptions and resources there. VM uses excessively high (bloated) buffers which causes excessively high latency and jitter (your graph) when your connection is under load. I can't explain it better than Wikipedia already does, so quoting el wiki: Quote:
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I didn't think you were being condescending.. I've been out of IT properly now for 8 years and had never heard the term so was just wondering it's implication here :D
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
example of buffer bloat?
http://www.pingtest.net/result/57681817.png https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/13.png my connection was idle during both tests ack at the speed, but the port is obviously highly utilised and as such I assume its buffer is been maxed out. |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Tbh people make alot of hot air about buffer bloat.. The reason for VM's jitter/pings relates to the operation of DOCSIS and the fact they don't utilize any QOS for your upstream..
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
But surely if they applied QoS to the upstream, jitter would still exist for demoted upstream calls.
And that assuming that QoS applications themselves in a locality don't get congested among themselves. Also, what is the operation of DOCSIS that causes jitter? Would be interesting to know. ]---------- Post added at 00:34 ---------- Previous post was at 00:29 ---------- http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...26-02-2012.png http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...26-02-2012.png Mind you, the boy got some good MW3 in on VM this evening; didn't have to switch to BT Infinity. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I am officially stealing your Infinity conn Seph :P
(still can't get that in my area yet) |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Apart from a couple of glitch days a couple of weeks ago (I posted the TBB somewhere) the Infinity chart has been like this for 15 months now.
Cheers |
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---------- Post added at 04:12 ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 ---------- S'pose I might as well post my live TB graph now that I've got a router connected to it... https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/11.png P.S. Seph, when's the last time you rebooted your Infinity router? Your ping's higher than mine despite being 300 miles closer to London than I am. I've noticed differences of up to 5ms between reconnects depending on which BT central my PPPoE session gets connected to. |
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Look at any TBB graph you like - if there's significant jitter then the odds are it's cable. If there is negligible jitter then it's xDSL. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
QOS can only do so much. ultimately if someone is trying to eg. shove 80mbit of bandwidth up a 18mbit pipe then things are going to get messy.
Docsis has all the timeslot issues and such but things like varying pings will always be more evident on smaller shared pipes. I expect VM have to use large buffers to maximise throughput in congested areas, the alternative I suspect would be significant packet loss. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
All strategies have something analogous at least to upstream timeslots. On an uncongested upstream, you get the opportunity to inject your data; on a congested upstream, less opportunity. It's the frequency plan of the upstream and how many channels are provided under any system that matter. AFAIK, Infinity's upstream/downstream frequencies all lie in the same "band" (for want of a better term).
Also I don't think that large buffers maximises throughput except in a locality. A limiting resource somewhere else has the same effect on total round trip as at the point of buffering. Then to address qasi's comment; TDMA is not confined to DOCSIS. So I'd still like to know what it is about DOCSIS that causes jitter. |
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xDSL and 3G both don't use TDMA let alone CSMA hence jitter is lower in both cases. In both these cases a modem wanting to transmit simply transmits immediately, and can do so at any time. It doesn't have to wait, request a timeslot, then wait again until that timeslot is granted. GSM (2G) telephony also sees next to zero jitter as each call is given a fixed, dedicated timeslot. Only the initial call setup uses CSMA, whereas on VM cable (I say that as it's not an absolute requirement of DOCSIS - only that VM haven't implemented the alternative) CSMA is used for just about single upload request. GPON (i.e. BT Infinity FTTP) I don't know enough about but I believe it operates on a similar timeslotting arrangement to cable, hence why I've said in the past it brings several of the same disadvantages as cable. I've not seen enough actual numbers from PON tech to make any kind of judgement on it though. That's jitter. Latency on the other hand is a different matter. Excessive latency is simply a result of excessively long buffers, which aren't required as part of DOCSIS. VM simply chooses to stick excessively long buffers in place. It helps the performance of only those using excessively high amounts of bandwidth and degrades the performance of everyone else. It's completely unneccessary. |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
[IMG]http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...27-02-2012.png[/IMG]
Totally unusable tonight The XXXX will fly when i get on phone in morning i think!! |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
My Infinity just pooped itself :(
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
QAS your showing off again!
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
No, that's not showing off. This is showing off:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...23-07-2011.png On a related note, I just set up a ping monitor on thinkbroadband that pings itself. I wonder how that'll turn out... xD |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Thats Awfullllllllllllll
LOL |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
I want one nowwwwwwwwww
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
get in line
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
HAHAHA
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
care to elaborate ;)
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Dont worry T hes only dreaming.
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https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/06/97.png
My Internet looks raw right now... thankfully it's just a false alarm.. If Thinkbroadband pings too fast, my router drops the packets (Really gotta get around to sorting that out) Some really out of date iptables rule |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
what is stupid on my congestion is I get congestion at all sorts of times, here is a graph (from today) showing congestion building up between 2 and 3am in the morning wtf!
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/s...28-02-2012.png |
Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Isn't that when all the torrents for US prime time shows come out?
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
if you think qas is showing off look at my signature, definitely a show off here!! :P
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
qad* probably but notice how the congestion also suddenly died down instantly instead of gradually.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Yeah, are you upload uplifted yet? If so could easily have been one torrent user hitting his share ratio and stopped seeding.
---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ---------- P.S. I challenge anyone to beat this: https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/02/3.png |
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Now that's the first time I've seen minimum latency jump like that on VM's network.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
Looks the same to me.
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Re: Think Broadband Ping Monitor Results (POST YOURS)
nah, you can actually see yours :D
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