Re: The existence of God
 

Now that's where it gets complicated. Earth and all it contains, the Universe and all that is fine, but it is that start that has me confused. You can't have a void, with some chemicals floating about, they hit and BANG, it all starts. Where did the void and the chemicals come from?

So it's God, but where did he/she/it come from? It just keeps going back, each thing has to come from something to infinity, which can't happen, it's impossible. What the hell is going on at all?

And it is this thinking that makes me give a rats backside about anything at the moment. It's all insignificant until we fathom it. Nothing is important and nobody counts for anything.

Now if only people with BT Earphones and 4*4 realised that!

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

Quality!

Re: The existence of God
 

It could be worse though. Imagine there is an afterlife, and Russ (or anyone else) picked the wrong horse, and Alah/Jaweh/Thor/Satan went: OI, you can't come in, as you followed the wrong book, and it clearly states in my book that you must/must not do a, b and c.

Re: The existence of God
 

In my opinion you are as guilty of 'unfounded preaching' as anyone in this thread, in one sense more so, as at least Russ gives the respect of appreciating other opinions may exist.

You, however, seem to pursue your agenda unrelentingly, without apparently considering any other input beyond dismissing it.

This isn't indicative of 'science & logic', in my opinion, it is more aligned with prejudice & bigotry.

You are entitled to your opinion - but please don't extrapolate that to include anyone but yourself, thanks :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Of course, ignoring the fact that in 7 years I have never preached on here ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

The irony is that the militant atheist and the religious extremist are probably more alike than either would ever admit.:shrug:

Re: The existence of God
 

In my opinion you have only ever stated your own beliefs, without implying anyone else should follow them, I cannot see that would constitute 'preaching'.

I respect that, whatever my own beliefs or opinions, and I find it hard to understand how others can't ...

---------- Post added at 01:18 ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 ----------

possibly true - but I'm not sure I would include Russ as a 'religious extremist' :)

Re: The existence of God
 

From my dealings with Russ on the forum I'd put him in the "live and let live end of the Christian church" or put another way simply a decent bloke who happens to be a Christian.:)

Re: The existence of God
 

I think we all can agree with that.

Re: The existence of God
 

lol good one especially for this night ;)

i didn't spill a drop but nearly dropped the bread :angel:

( in house joke )

i do wonder why those who don't believe seem to have such a great need to get every one to follow them

Re: The existence of God
 

Save yourself with Bahá'Ã*Faith :cool:

Re: The existence of God
 

Whats a double handle please??

Re: The existence of God
 

Curiously enough, the Oxford Dictionary definition of preaching is -

• verb
1 deliver a religious address to an assembled group of people.
2 earnestly advocate (a principle).
3 (preach at) give moral advice to (someone) in a self-righteous way.

None of the people with whom you have a "difference of opinion" has done the first, and you and others of a different opinion have been doing the second, and you (imho) are probably the most guilty of the third.

Ironic, huh? :D

Re: The existence of God
 

Typical for a Godbot.... read some text and try to apply it to something that isn't in the slightest part related.:rolleyes:

All I'm doing is stating facts, science, logic, and using them to pick holes in the implausibility of the Bible. All I get in return is people arguing with me that the most utterly ridiculous, impossible, and just plain stupid bible 'myths' are a FACT.:banghead:

Someone even argued that no wars had EVER been started in the name of religion, let alone argued that talking snakes exist.:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: The existence of God
 

But why?

Re: The existence of God
 

There you go again, twisting facts.

No one ever said that "no wars had EVER been started in the name of religion", it was stated that
a) perhaps those wars allegedly started in the name of religion were in fact territorial or economic, but used religion as a cover-up
b) highlighted that the wars that killed over 80 million people last century were not "religious wars"

For someone who keeps going on about facts and logic, you seem to focus on name-calling and distortion - ironic, huh? ;)

Has anyone on this thread ever attacked you for having different beliefs in this matter? The aggression and nastiness has (imho) all be one sided - you really aren't a good advert for atheism, imho.

Re: The existence of God
 

Because you spent 57 pages aggressively preaching myths as facts to people, now you act like you're a victim.

But why indeed.

http://www.guldahl.com/pics/science_vs_religion.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

after following this thread over the past few weeks i am more convinced than ever that there is a god,there are a lot of replies to this thread and this conveys to me that a lot of people are starting to scratch their heads and think of the possibilitys that there is a god

Re: The existence of God
 

Must be a different forum you've been reading.

Taking foreverwar's earler definition of preaching, can you link to any of my posts where I've been doing that?

Re: The existence of God
 

Peace be upon you, and I hope your anger does not impact your everyday life, as that would not be good for you and those around you.

Take care.

http://abbreviationenthusiast.com/wp...n_diagram1.gif

And if we are posting diagrams off the web, here is one I find humourous (even though I believe in the Big Bang theory) - it even mentions dinosaurs, just for you......

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/58.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

I do not believe in god and find it very odd that people take the bible to be the word of god, we are talking about a book of myths passed down over many hundreds of years that has been constantly altered by the church and governments to fit in with their doctrines.

I am happy to let people believe what they want as long as they do feel the need to indoctrinate me into their beliefs.

Re: The existence of God
 

Yup, totally agree; and not every Christian believes the Bible to be the literal word of God, although some do.

Re: The existence of God
 

Whereas there's nothing to suggest any governments have altered the Bible (in fact there's much to say it's stayed the same, see The Dead Sea Scrolls), I feel exactly the same way about atheism with regards to the second part of your post.

Re: The existence of God
 

Thats why I missed out the word "All" from the above but to many actually believe that.

Re: The existence of God
 

i was thinking its still status quo ie gone no where .;)

Re: The existence of God
 

The Vatican will have been involved in altering the bible and the are supposed to be other unaltered versions in their vaults, plus the Vatican used to be involved in many countries politics so they could and would have been able to alter certain parts to strengthen the churches power in those countries.

The Vatican will never allow access to the original versions to protect the church, which is understandable in so many ways.

Re: The existence of God
 

Have you got any links to back up your notion that the Vatican has altered the Bible? There's a difference between altering it and only using certain books, the main one being (I think it's called) The Gospel of Phillip. That was 'removed' as it mentions Jesus allegedly kissing Mary Magdalene. It doesn't change anything about Jesus, his divinity or his legacy other than the notion that he might have been married to mary, something I certainly don't have a problem with but Catholicism does considering its stance on female priests and leaders.

Also I feel the need to point out again that the Vatican only speaks for Catholics and not the majority of Christians.

Re: The existence of God
 

The fact off the matter is, even with the conclusive evidence put infront of them, most believe the bible to be a FACT no matter how daft the story is.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/57.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

result!!!!!

:)

Re: The existence of God
 

you missed out the story er truth ;)


Dad, did dinosaurs really exist?
Sure they did, son. The Bible says so. They didn't call them "dinosaurs" back then, but instead they were known as "leviathans" or "behemoths".
But, my science teacher says dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. Is that true?
Of course not, son.
Then how old are they?
Well, let's see. The Bible tells us [from Adam and Eve's family tree] that the Universe is only a few thousand years old. So dinosaurs had to have lived within the past few thousand years. That's simple logic, son.
Oh. So that means they were on Noah's Ark?
Absolutely! The Bible says two of every animal were brought [by God] to the ark. Dinosaurs were animals. So, using your logic again son, dinosaurs had to be on the ark.
Huh. So how come scientists say they're older than that? and died way before Jesus?
Well, son, they just make that up. Dinosaur bones don't have labels on them to tell how old they are. In fact, there is no proof whatsoever that the world and its fossil layers are millions of years old. No scientist saw dinosaurs die-
Dad!
No I'm serious. Scientists only find the bones in the here and now, and because many of them are evolutionists, they try to fit the story of the dinosaurs into their view.
That's sad. But I thought scientists were smart?
Sure, but they don't know everything. So they have to make stuff up to fit their beliefs. While you and I, we have the facts, straight from the Bible.
I don't want to be a scientist!
Ha! That's ok, son. It's better to be right, than smart. C'mon, wanna learn how to flip burgers like your Dad?
Yeah!

Re: The existence of God
 

See, there you go again with the old "straw man" argument - you make an all-encompassing statement that is untrue (although some Christians do take the Bible literally, it is not most), and expect people of faith to challenge your distorted misrepresentation, and when they don't, you use this to further "prove" your fallacious point.

You're a very naughty boy, who isn't very good at debate, as you seem to depend on misrepresentations, agression, and name-calling.:D

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Russ, may I point out that the Catholic Church has the largest congregation within the Christian Churches, representing over half of all Christians (but, as a codicil, quite a large number of RC's don't think the Vatican speaks for them ;) ),

Re: The existence of God
 

And by return may I point out that many people consider themselves Christians purely on the basis of 'believing in God' ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

Spot on.

Re: The existence of God
 

So why resort to insulting people whose views you don't agree with?

Re: The existence of God
 

Because they are reasonable, logical people....... ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

Russ B stated below is a fact* and you question my reason and logic!

*apart from Jesus riding a T-Rex... he didn't say that.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/57.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

Can you show me where I did that please?

Re: The existence of God
 

drz400's faith that you said it is all that is required "faith needs no proof";)

Re: The existence of God
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

or gets bored.

Re: The existence of God
 

Can you show me where I did that please?

Re: The existence of God
 

Straw man time again (you like doing this, don't you ;) ).

I am not a creationist, as I believe in the Theory of Evolution (hope that doesn't make your head explode too much) - you do seem to love classifying people in simple categories, don't you, as it makes your raging and ranting so much easier.....:D

Peace be with you.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

you so funny - you just posted that Russ stated something, using a picture to illustrate your point, then stated that he didn't say that; must be a new definition of logic I hadn't come across before..... :D

Re: The existence of God
 

To be fair I got it wrong and you only stated that the bible 'mentions' dinosaurs and posted the link to ClarifyingChristianity and the cedar tailed thingies.

You didn't say you believed in it though. Do you though?

Re: The existence of God
 

Shall we go over what else you've got wrong while we're at it?

Re: The existence of God
 

I was just wondering though .... do you believe in what's written on the http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml site?

Re: The existence of God
 

So from Russ's post #799 to your post #941 and now it sinks in that got it wrong. LoL, Mensa must be beating at your door begging you to apply ;)


Your still not getting are you, let me recap how you came to be mistaken in the first place, then you may be able to work out the answer yourself.

Re: The existence of God
 

Firstly, shall we go over what else you've got wrong while we're at it?

Secondly why do you care what I believe?

Re: The existence of God
 

DRZ, all you want is a war of words, are you not bored of trying to wind folk up yet?
Why not start a thread up that really interests you instead?

Re: The existence of God
 

Russ B, foreverwar, xocemp, and lucy7, could you be so kind as to answer the above question, stating either 'Yes' or 'No', feel free to add a comment as to why you either stated 'Yes' or 'No' if you like.

All I'm trying to do is understand.

Re: The existence of God
 

That's rich considering you've ignored most of what we've put to you. I can't speak for the others but if you answer what I've been putting to you then I'll return the gesture.

I'd also like you to answer my question of why you care about what I/we believe.

---------- Post added at 14:54 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------

If that's true then it makes a marked departure from the mocking and insulting you'd been doing so far.

Re: The existence of God
 

Come on now, your not!

Like I said, start a new thread up, it will be interesting to see what your mind thinks up.

Make it a really good one if you can come up with one please!

Re: The existence of God
 

No, do not start up another thread or it will be merged with this.

Re: The existence of God
 

But it may be a really interesting one Russ, one that DRZ cares about passionateley, it may help us to get the measure of him, dont you think??

Re: The existence of God
 

I think Lucy means a completely different theme. unless you are going to merge supermarkets into this one?

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Save The Whale. but Jonah will probably make an appearence :)

Re: The existence of God
 

It may well be interesting but if it's on the theme of God, or religion itself it be exactly the same as this one and becomes an admin's nightmare to control.

Re: The existence of God
 

Are you smoking something Gary:D

Re: The existence of God
 

No, and I'm not injecting anything either.
why do people keep asking? it all sounds normal to me :)

Re: The existence of God
 

If what you are posting seems normal then maybe you should go lie down and have a nice rest from in front of the computer.:D

Re: The existence of God
 

and you do need to be in control :rolleyes:

Re: The existence of God
 

Yes, that's what admins and mods are for.

Re: The existence of God
 

Has any moderation been done on this one Russ?

Re: The existence of God
 

Yes here and there, why?

Re: The existence of God
 

Just asking Russ.

Re: The existence of God
 

<cough, cough, splutter> excuse me, whilst I step out of the way of your rapidly expanding proboscis.......:D

Anyhoo, you are doing your old trick of changing the question when the original answer doesn't suit your purpose.;)

You originally asked Russ where dinosaurs were mentioned in the Bible - he pointed this out to you, along with the information that the word "dinosaur" originated in the 1800's, so it was of creatures of a similiar size/description, so the word dinosaur would not be in the bible.

Now you are turning the question around (not having received the answer you hoped for in the first place); but I will play along, as it's a quiet day and you are keeping me reasonably amused.

As I have stated before, in this thread and others, I do not believe in the Bible as literal truth (but others may, and that is their right and privilege), and since dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago (after a good innings of approx. 165 million years), and human-like hominids appeared approx. 6 million years ago, it is unlikely (imho) there was dinosaurs (as we know it, T. Rex, brontosaurus, diplidocus, etc) extant at the same time as early man.

However (and there is always a however), people today believe (and I am not one of them) in the Loch Ness monster (allegedly a plesiosaur-like creature), and other stuff like that, but there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy©

btw, others with faith may disagree with me, as I do not speak for my fellow posters, just as I do not judge all atheists on your behaviours. ;)

btw2, why are you asking xocemp? He is an atheist, as he stated in post #762


© W. Shakespeare

Re: The existence of God
 

Since dinosaurs were a lot bigger than humans and that they had massive teeth, could eat about anything, I doubt any humans around would have stayed alive very long.
Hence, Dinosaurs came before humans and although I believe that there is a God and that he did create the world, I think he put it in place for things to develop over time and from one species to the next.

As for the Lochness monster.....I personally believe the tourism industry can't have been doing too well up Scottland way and spinning this tale and shooting a few faked photos was a good way of succeeding in boosting the tourism = money.

Re: The existence of God
 

About 230 million years ago, a group of animals called dinosaurs ruled the earth. They lived in many different habitats, from open plains to forests to the edges of swamps, lakes, and oceans.

Some dinosaurs were as tall as a five-storey building, and there were others no bigger than a chicken.

The name 'dinosaur' means 'most fearsome lizard'. However, dinosaurs were not lizards, though related to them. Some scientists think that dinosaurs were more closely related to birds.

Most dinosaurs were herbivores and ate plants.

Re: The existence of God
 

Is this still the God thread or is now the Primeval thread.http://smileyshut.com/smileys/new/15_3_32[1].gif

Re: The existence of God
 

Is that one the same size as a chicken?

http://www.trancewave.com/novalounge...icken_TRex.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

You noticed posts going missing too!! There were two in particular I was looking for.

Re: The existence of God
 

You should take screen shots of before and after. like me :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Re: The existence of God
 

alleged evidence tampering eh ;)

Re: The existence of God
 

From what I can tell

Seems to have come from

No mention of Dino, so has he just added that bit to give it some weight. Or did Wikipedia steal from that site and a Darwin fan edited out the dino bit? Lots of what he has written is on Wiki, seems like he just padded it out a bit.

If you want to believe that the Behemoth, Leviathan and the rest are real then so are Harpies, Cyclops, Minotaur, Medusa.............

Would it not be far simpler to say that God didn't write the old testament, it was written after the fact and that Dinos had been and gone before it got written. And so they went amiss. If I believed in God creating the Earth, that's how I would look at it.

You can't link them to the Bible, considering the size and impact on the planet, they would get more mention than the odd vague description. Imagine how low on the food chain we would be if we existed at the same time.

Also, if people and dinos existed at the same time, then you would find human fossils that would carbon date millions of years ago, that's based on carbon dating being wrong, which it has to be to support the theory.

Nah, if you believe in God, best leave Dinos alone and hope that when you die they fit in someplace.

Re: The existence of God
 

The 2 posts I was looking for may have been the ones delete!:(

Re: The existence of God
 

One of them was mine (as I told you early, seems like you have a real 'thing' about ignoring what I post....) and the other was a member asking if things were off topic.

Any more discussion regarding supposed deleted posts will be treated as ignoring a moderator request and infractions will be issued. If you have any questions about posts or threads please contact a team member via PM

---------- Post added at 19:25 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Thing is the Book of Job describes something. It's clearly a creature that we don't have today. What doesn't make things any easier is the fact when Job was written there are a lot of words in use today that they simply had no use for, 'dinosaur' being one.

Re: The existence of God
 

there are a lot of good points in your post :tu:

Re: The existence of God
 

Is that the Behemoth/Leviathan thing or something else? For me I have to take with a pinch of salt ancient descriptions of things like monsters. Greek myth is full of such stuff.

It would make more sense to me to say this is Earth v2 - Earth v1 was dinos, was a bit of a mess, got out of control and was stopped. God didn't write the Old Testament, it is based on what we know, I would assume passed on via Adam n Eve, and what God don't want you to know, at this moment, is none of your (not you, everyones) business. He does move in mysterious ways as they say.

Anyway, I don't believe in God, Dinos are my spanner in the works, and here I am coming up with theories, think your own up.....:D

Re: The existence of God
 

Some good points there.

When the Bible was written there was an earth. we all know that.
but what was going on in the rest of the world apart from the Jesus area where the Bible is all focussed on?

Was there people anywhere else in the world such as the otherside when all this was happening, or did everyone originate from the Jesus area and gradually spread out across the world?

Re: The existence of God
 

Not at all, it's refreshing to have a different non-agressive atheist view in this.

I see what you're saying but I think you might be misunderstanding the reason d'etre for the Bible. It's not meant to be a brief history of time, more a guidance for living. It's not meant to be a narrative of the world. Each book in the Bible (something for the militant athiests - the bible is actually made up of 66 books) tells a story. It gives a message (or messages). So you can understand why a lot of what we know today is not included. My view is God gave us the Bible to tell us not 'everything' but instead 'what we needed to know'. Gravity for example isn't mentioned in it but why would it?

Re: The existence of God
 

Life, basically. The Roman Empire spreading across Europe. Britain being Romanized. Barbarian wars. South America, Aztecs and Mayans I suppose. North America was the Native Americans. Everyone was doing their thing. Untill Christianity started to spread I would assume Jesus came n went without ever being heard of.

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------

Yes.

I think that is a big problem for a lot of people, you assume it is a historical record for a period of time, you kinda forget it isn't.

Bingo. That's what I am getting at. Just cos Dinos aren't described as they would have been, doesn't mean they don't fit in at some point in the process. But that it is possible it isn't required that you know about them. People that believe shouldn't try to explain fossils and link the Bible to it, you can't. Just let it ride and see what happens.

Re: The existence of God
 

The believers will only answer the simplest of questions with an ambiguous answer ignoring the difficult ones.

What about answering kingbuxton very good point.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/27.gif

Re: The existence of God
 

Yes, very much so. It's not meant to be a history of time.

Whereas the militant atheists will simply ignore any direct questions put to them about their intentions especially when they are proven to be wrong (and even admit it) and offer a bizarre version of 'logic'.

I'm still waiting for answers to what I've put to you.

Re: The existence of God
 

It's mind boggling really. thinking how life began in one street so to speak. and spread outwards without anyone really knowing who's who.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Russ, not all of us are calling each other names and labels. it would help if you didn't either :)

Re: The existence of God
 

Well if I'm not referring to you then it shouldn't bother you hey.

Re: The existence of God
 

Ok, so I'll use a label but I'm not referring to you either.

Re: The existence of God
 

This is what I am getting at, they don't have to, that's what faith is for. "Why is this that?" "It just is" "Why?" "Cos I have faith"

It's for science to explain stuff, and I have faith that they will. Once they invent the Time Machine we will be sorted.

Re: The existence of God
 

Re: The existence of God
 

This isn't the Religion you are looking for. Move along.

Re: The existence of God
 

yousa kaffics maka me laughs

Re: The existence of God
 

Re: The existence of God
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/54.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

Religion - letting human beings deny their mortality since 4000 BC.

FWIW I'm happy to accept existing of a higher power, just not the Christian God nor indeed any man-made religion.

A God - yes, *the* God, well depending who you speak to who exactly is the God?

Find me a religion that doesn't claim we're in some way immortal and I'll be happy to look at it. That appears to be the one common factor between them, trying to offer us alternatives to our biological mortality.

Re: The existence of God
 

Shinto or Confucianism?

Re: The existence of God
 

I am immortal

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/53.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

There can only be one
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2009/04/52.jpg

Re: The existence of God
 

Never thought about it like that, you could wonder if a (mankinds) belief in a God is a comfort zone to some deep recess of the mind that just can't cope with the idea of death being final?

Did I say that, or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?

Re: The existence of God
 

But that's on the assumption that we 'buy in' to a religion due to the promise of an afterlife - and that wasn't what sold it for me. To be honest I wouldn't have thought that was the reason for anyone at my church, although it's difficult to speak for people that aren't present.

Re: The existence of God
 

That's why I stuck mankind in brackets - as in to describe it as an overall experience? Not really the right word. I would assume that for a lot of people it is a very personal experience (I can't think of a better word).

Why did you? Or is it personal? If you would rather not say, doesn't matter.

Re: The existence of God
 

It just made more sense to me - as I understood it science has proven we don't actually 'die', forms of energy just move on to a different form. The world through these eyes seemed to be too specific than to happen by chance. I looked in to it a bit more, I took the 5% of relevant information from my Catholic schooling and found myself heading down the path of Christianity. No fear of Hell, no longing for eternity!

Re: The existence of God
 

Good answer. We are all made of stardust.

Re: The existence of God
 

May I ask what does make you 'buy in' to a religion? I've probably got this all wrong, but it seems so strange to me that someone would 'decide' to follow a certain religion. Presumably, it's not like you are looking for something to believe in, and then pick a version that appeals to you? What other than upbringing makes on 'choose' a faith?

Re: The existence of God
 

Post #997? :)