Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Its happening to me when I goto the forum from the main premiumtv home website. However it is clean if you goto the forum link it bypasses the phorm script. Suggesting we may have a way to get round it on this website.


However The following website happens when I select a thread too.

Which makes me wonder is this being Region trialed if your not experiencing this.

ttp://s2.excoboard.com/exco/forum.php?forumid=45999&PHPSESSID=b60a74e78a460561 d9b75601093c8c4a

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Is this the alert you are getting?
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/images/phorm_alert.gif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

See my sig Florence, click the 'template' link to download the VM Phorm DPA Complaint.pdf (7.07 KB)

Address to send it to is already in it :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

none: did a template Data Protection Act Notice.
http://www.mediafire.com/?b00jbvjabdd
id be inclined to change it a little and add an 'i expressly forbid my person data be passed ,processed or exported to any Profiling electronic device' .

you send this letter by registered post (for legal reasons, and VM removed the electronic email notice from their T&C ,plus you then have proof should they try and deny getting notice) to your ISPs(or what ever company that has your data) data collector.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The DPA is about "personally identifiable" data, not "data ... that isn't required for providing my service". Someone suggested that an IP address might be construed as "personally identifiable" data, although this doesn't seem to have been tested in the courts. Anyway, the DPA states that such information can be held, but they have to get your permission first - an opt-out would probably fulfil that requirement.

To use an analogy, when you walk into Tesco there is a large monitor showing an image of you walking into the store. You don't have to sign anything to give Tesco permission to record this personally identifiable information (a picture of your face). You can opt-out by leaving the store.

Good link to the DPA, by the way.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Okay...I have a theory (just a theory).
Maybe the websites that are triggering your alarm contain OIX ad-panels (there must be a few around in order that Phorm can conduct their "tests" on the BT guinea pigs) so perhaps the plug-in is detecting the Phorm script in those panels. Until the Phorm hardware goes live on the VM network, those panels won't work as intended when viewed over a VM connection, since there's no anonymous ID cookie on any of our machines yet. Unless, of course, VM are trialing it secretly, but that would be really stupid, since they haven't ammended our terms & conditions yet, so if they were discovered doing that, they'd be wide open to legal action. Now that this system has been announced, they really do have to tell us with that big splash screen the first time we go online after the system goes live, or they'd be handing opponents of the Phorm system their balls on a plate.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Someone suggested that an IP address might be construed as "personally identifiable" data"

that would be me, and it was the head EU data commissioner that said your IP address is personal data, and he should know what he's talking about...

"I'm asking them not to process my data " implys his 'Personal data' and you need to be careful about your wording in the notice.

and remember its a Notice (were you instruct the data controller what they can or cant do with your personal data property),not a Complaint.

if you blankly remove their rights to process all your data then they cant then bill you for its use (Not a good idea),and so on.

removing the right to export (without qualification) would stop them exporting said data to the offshore customer care personel, and so on.

if you read your T&C contract you will see you give them the right to process your data for as long your under the contract, however you have the right to alter any personal data rights you might have given them (in the T&C)at any time, hence the DPA notice you send them to do as you instruct.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

something like that bit more info turns out I think I found the culprit folks so be wary.

Picked up something very nasty which got our PHORM defender go bit crazy.

I found a cookie called this lurking.

PHPSESSID



got rid of it but is a nasty piece.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just for the record, its not my good work, (sadly im not that articulate) it comes courtesy of www.badphorm.co.uk and the authors name is MGP - http://www.badphorm.co.uk/download.php?list.2

So full props must go to him (or her) :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Did you look at the content of PHPSESSID before you binned it? Have you reproduced it by re-visiting the site after clearing out your cookies? Do you have oix.net and www.webwise.net domains blocked? A bit more info would be much appreciated by those of us not yet getting this...

Update: Scrub the above- I've just realised PHPSESSID is the session cookie that you get when you visit www.phorm.com . I've just demonstrated this with a cookie clearout and quick visit to that URL.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

PHPSESSID is the default cookie for maintaining session state in a PHP web application. It has precisely nothing to do with Phorm.

I think we're on a wild goose chase here.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

not sure if anybody else has posted this without going thru the whole thread :)

But anybody seen the BBC website a question and answer from phorm !

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283333.stm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:o: I think the paranoia is starting to take over... maybe it's time to switch off the PC and go for a walk...:erm:
Does anyone have a tinfoil hat smiley we could add to the list?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

[QUOTE=popper;34503639
removing the right to export (without qualification) would stop them exporting said data to the offshore customer care personal, and so on.[/QUOTE]

And thats a bad thing why?

Some years ago I was getting sales calls from the Indian call center of my bank, usually after 9pm. I asked several times for them to stop calling me, and was ignored.

Once I had issued a DPA notice not only did it stop, when I call CS and reach the usual offshore call center they quicky transfer me back to the UK.

By issuing the notice you do 2 things - Protect your personal data, and send a message to VM that you take your privacy rights seriously.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here you go...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/cobbyda...oil-smiley.gif

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hats off to MGP then, but i thought you converted it to a PDF ,so hats off to you too.

shame MrA doesnt post here anymore since he moved ISP, he would have done us proud with his massive skills, are you reading MrA, come back , funny how we havent seen any more legally trained people in any of the threads so far.

never a (specialist DPA/RIPA/UK/EU/LOADS MORE...) lawyer around when you need one ....;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I can really recommend looking at the link to the BBC provided by PAYNEARDO.

The replies nicely try to sidestep or confuse about who owns what and what is passed to whom regarding the profiler. No real answers though. These people must truly think we are all stupid and will be be confused by claiming who owns what and what will be passed on to where as though it means anything other than a poor attempt to confuse.

Subject to change I currently believe that the profiler which belongs to the ISP (guess they bought it) only contacts Phorm in its many guises when you allow adverts from their paid up sites. I believe that whether you opt in or out you are mirrored to the profiler and always will be but as that belongs to the ISP, Phorm washes their hands of it even though they wrote the software and will need to monitor software performance etc. Of course they need to do what has to done with the software and no more caring a way could be but to do that in real time (maybe).

The question I posed about a total by-pass (on this forum) was answered with the party line of it belongs to the ISP (furiously washing hands).

You all must read the last paragraph (BBC link) when a question was asked with legal implications. It is like a malfunctioning robot... drop interactive mode and go into script mode. So funny ;)

BTW They have changed many of their sites around from last week and stopped serving cookies from all bar one site that I visited today. They are adopting a very very low profile which is surprising for a profiling company ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yes.

go through the WHOLE thread, its full of interesting related stuff and probably the only one that covers a lot of other sites comments etc.

and its growing by the day, as many of those other sites users seem to be joining here as we place links all over the place referencing the good stuff.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yep thanks found this about it. although there hacking of this file which they can get remote control.

http://www.captain.at/howto-php-sessions.php

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I did, and ty :)

Yup, it biggest running debate over phorm to be found anywhere, with all the juicy bits from other blogs/sites thrown in for good measure

This thread is certainly one of the first links I give to people now when discussing phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't wish to be rude mertle but I don't think you know what you are talking about. The article you linked to is about the maintenance of session state in a web application and specifically adjusting the garbage collection interval on the server so that a browser session is not lost if the default garbage collection interval has passed before the session cookie has expired. This has absolutely nothing to do with Phorm. You are chasing shadows.

Perhaps a refresher on cookies and session state would be in order : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Lot's of people up and down the country, including me have had trouble browsing for about 2 weeks now. :erm:

This has NEVER happened to me before (Ive been a customer for 4 years, EX Telewest) but it's happenig all the time now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

;) notice how i DIDNT say 'not a good idea' on that part LOL.

its up to each person to decide that, as it may stop the offshore CCare etc, and so force it back to the UK.

but it might also make some so called jobswerth employee inside the ISP or whatever trying to kick you as they take it personally and dont understand the DPA act , then you need to go to the trouble of getting the courts involved etc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats so true but it was bit of shock to see my phorm buster getting active.

:shocked:

I think its a good thing to monitor though at some point we will find them be able to help block them. One thing PHORM done is made me 400% more vigilant. I seriously more aware of the junk put in my tempory internet folder.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

" http://zapatopi.net/afdb/



seems to give you all the info you might want, but no smiley.

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=4182&page=2
a user there gives you this https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/03/11.gif but im not sure its suitable as they obviously have the directional Wifi extension and we dont know if it tunes to the wireless community Phorm Mesh network :angel:

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...hat+smiley+&cr=

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

An interesting post here would also suggest that VM have not gone live with phorm just yet - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...=759341&page=2

read the rest here - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...=759341&page=2

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

May well have already been mentioned, but has anyone else had a look at webwise.com, & found some bits as laughable as I do?


See how they lead with "in response to consumers’ growing concerns and frustrations with the Internet" and then "Webwise can help protect you from fraudulent “phishing” websites that may put your financial and personal data at risk", before finally mentioning, in a kind of "oh, by the way..." that "It also helps reduce the number of irrelevant, untargeted ads you see.".

When surely the primary purpose of it is MONEY for Phorm & the ISPs, with this whole phishing thing just some sugar-coating, to make it look like there's a real benefit for the customers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

For the record that letter was in fact first posted on Cable Forum. After a couple of tweaks it was then posted to Badphorm. I'm more than happy that it has been widely re-used others.

I've actually had a reply, and when I get to a scanner, I will post it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I haven't posted much on here and only checked the forums today to see if there was any more gossip on 50Mb :p:

I've asked the on-line providers of credit cards and banking I use how they feel about the potential man-in-the-middle attack opportunity that this "Phorm" nonsense represents, given that one of the people at the helm of the company involved is a known spyware author. We'll see :rolleyes:

Hopefully, me pointing out that I don't feel I can trust a "session key" when the login page contents are easily obtainable via a potential (inevitable?) man-in-the-middle attack might help. However, I suspect they'll tell me to make sure I have all the latest updates/service packs etc. installed and to reboot my computer if I have any concerns though :mad:

Back to paper cheque thingies and queuing up for me I fear :shocked:

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"For the record that letter was in fact first posted on Cable Forum....
...I've actually had a reply, and when I get to a scanner, I will post it."

good on you Rob, well done ;) 0=]:-) http://media.bigoo.ws/content/smile/...racter_178.gif

i dont know how i missed that http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34492295-post128.html

not been reading/helping on the site as often as i used to as you might guess looking at the almost unread 'in the news' and other threads i used to try and keep up to date...

http://www.rankmytattoos.com/f/thumb...3806582357.jpghttps://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/03/40.jpghttp://www.cafepress.com/raven1/522681

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

LMAO

They say Webwise can help protect you against Fraud and then they also say this too - "Because of inherent limitations in controls, error or fraud may occur and not be detected." :rolleyes:

God if our goverment allow this crap to go down there is no hope for this bleeding country.

Like i said earlier though, money talks. :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

According to the TalkTalk members forum administrator Matt, TalkTalk are now claiming that;

1) They have not yet installed any Phorm equipment in their network
2) They intend to make it an opt-in system
3) If their customers do not opt-in to the "service" :rolleyes: they will "not ever come into contact with any Phorm equipment hosted within Talktalk". This implies that opted-out customers data will not go through the profiler.

You can read the full post at http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forum...?t=740&page=12

I think this is very interesting if true, as it demonstrates that it is technically possible for VM to respect the wishes of those of it's customers who want nothing at all to do with phorm.

Meanwhile, back on the TalkTalk forum, when someone pointed out that;

"This new statement does not seem to agree with previous statements and articles published elsewhere about cookies being used on customers' computers to determine whether urls are to be inspected or not."

the same administrator replied:

"We had a meeting yesterday and based on customer opinion we decided to use a different method, yet to be decided, to split the traffic so it doesn't hit a WebWise server at all for those that opt out."

...and, according to m0rph3us over on that forum (maybe the same m0rph3us that posts here?) "...it's quite easy to implement with ACL's if your routing kit is cisco based"

So come on Virgin Media - sit up, take note and start planning to offer your customers a real choice of whether to participate in this system or not.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My apologies Rob, don’t know how I too missed that post. But full kudos to you on writing such a well crafted letter, I look forward to seeing that reply you got.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another good piece on the Register this morning HERE

And Phorm's shares are down 20% this morning too
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...PHRM.L&it%3Dle

Keep up the great work folks

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the link Ravenheart - an excellent piece that addresses all the issues in a non-technical way. If only the major news outlets in this country would syndicate it so that Joe Public was made aware of what's about to happen...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

off to read it now...
heres another one
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...vertisers.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The post below is from the register. Many thaks to the other steve for posting.

Proof if Proof be needed that the People at Phorm have been lying all along.

Excellent technical info here
By The Other Steve
Posted Monday 10th March 2008 13:36 GMT
http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/p,295/

Including information from Etregul's patent, which at least one of us ought to have thought of, oh well.

Juiciest bits from the patent, because I know you'll all love this, but go have a look, it's a truly excellent piece. See if any of this sounds familiar...

"Furthermore, though the present disclosure discusses HTTP traffic in many examples, it will be appreciated that other types of protocols and traffic may be employed in connection with the targeted advertising system and method described herein."

Woops.

"Context reader 40 is not limited to acquiring keyword or other contextual information pertaining to a given web page. Indeed, the browsing information may be collected so as to also include historical data pertaining to the browsing performed "

Ouch.

"Based on analysis occurring at the proxy server, the proxy server may modify client-requested data it receives so that a targeted advertisement appears on a web page requested by a client"

Oh dear.

"As explained above, the context reader may be configured to more than just keyword and other contextual data pertaining to a given web page. The context reader may also include behavioral data (e.g, browsing behavior), other historical data collected over time, demographic data associated with the user, IP address, URL data, etc."

Oh Phorm, have you been telling us some MASSIVE porkies or what ?

The patent (linked at the above blog) is pretty dense, as you would expect, and contains plenty more of this kind of stuff. No doubt Phorm's hapless spinmeisters will be around to tell us that this isn't the technology they are going to implement NOW, and who knows, they might even be telling the truth*. But Phorm have lodged a patent application for technology that does indeed do all the things they have just assured us that they definitely won't do, ever, honest, we promise, cross our hearts.

Phail !

Props to Political Penguin for digging this up, looks like a smoking gun to me. Why patent a technology that you aren't going to use ?

* Really, they might. After all they did have Simon Davies look at it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for these, the more we find out the more we realise this has nothing to do with protecting users, its nothing more than greed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Definitely an opt-out service from VM. Received the following from VM in response to my enquiry:
(I have removed personal details of both myself and the respondee)

-----Original Message-----
From: >Web Team [mailto:webteam@telewest.co.uk]
Sent: 10 March 2008 11:01
To: ******
Subject: Re: Virgin Media Helpsite Webform - Customer Feedback TGEN (KMM7385980I28237L0KM)

REFERENCE : *****

Dear *****

Thank you for your e-mail dated 5 March 2008 regarding our partnership
with Phorm. I'm sorry its taken longer than expected to get back to you.

I can ensure you that all our customers will have the option to opt of
this program should they wish too. As soon as Phorm comes into play all
our customers will be made aware of how to opt out of the service. I
hope this information is what you were hoping for.

If you have further queries regarding this matter or any other issue,
please use the link provided below:

www.virginmedia.com/contact

Please note if you reply directly to this e-mail your response will not
be received.

Kind regards


*****
E-Contact Team
Virgin Media

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Also from Politicalpenguin:

:erm:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I read that patent application in its entirety several days ago and was left in no doubt that the capabilities can for far beyond anything that the company (Phorm) has proposed.

The auditing bodies have shown a need to add caveats which leads me to think that they are OK'ish with current proposed applications but cannot or will not project those assurances into the future.

I strongly suspect that we may have a case of "give an inch and mile may be taken (later on)".

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its werth keeping an eye on the VM T&C page to look for any changes btw.

currently they have removed the 'official notice' by electronic messaging,email etc options so you cant now send an 'official notice' by any other means than post or in person.

that appears to be a good thing from our POV, as that means they cant now officially notify us or get our concent to process our personal data through a popup webpage it seems.

the minute that T&C changes,as it must to allow the pop-up page they are talking about to get consent from you, you can OC then start sending your Official notices removing their rights to 'handling, collecting, processing or storing personal data' to the profiler that electronic email way again.....

you may be subject to a waiting time while they action your instructions though, i forget ...,something like 14 days, perhaps someone skilled in the art can clarify these points?

i wonder what the other ISPs T&C say and it might well apply to those as well.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

...and now down 24% (15:33hrs)

Hey, this is fun...:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Zimbabwe, interesting....

the ISPs and Phorm had better be 100% sure they dont have one single peace of personal data leak out of the UK then.... no right to export and all that.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

make that 31% - linky

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

36% now.. it's like watching a sinking ship ;)

Who'd have thought shares could be so much fun.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

wow a loss of almost 5% in just 4 minutes, thats pretty bad. Should make for an interesting discussion at Phorms Shareholders meeting on Thursday.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

in other news VMs stock is rising (now falling back a bit again), but thats more to do with the potential sale as i reported elswere the other day.

Neil might just get his comfy chair bonus after all ,i wonder if it happens ,weather Neil will still be CEO and what effect if any it might have on this Phorm deal...to many ifs right now.

http://www.businessweek.com/investor...amp%3B+markets
"Virgin Media (VMED) rises on reports that Richard Branson could scoop $750 million if Virgin Media is sold to U.S.

private equity groups, which are actively considering launching a takeover bid, despite continuing turmoil in the credit markets.

According to a private document entitled "Project Coaxial" - seen by The Observer - Blackstone, Cinven, KKR and Providence Equity are prepared to offer $6-$7.5 billion for the company, in which Branson's Virgin group holds a 10.5%, reports The Observer. "
http://investing.businessweek.com/re...sp?symbol=VMED
Virgin Media, Inc.

(VMED:NASDAQ)

LAST $14.69 USD CHANGE TODAY +0.80 5.76% VOLUME 3.4M

OPEN $15.76
PREVIOUS CLOSE $13.89
DAY HIGH $15.76
DAY LOW $14.34
...
"
i wonder what the other ISPs prices are doing, anyone checked?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.ey.com/global/content.nsf/resources/Global_Review_07/$file/EY_Global_Review_2007.pdf
Page 37?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Blimey, their stock is down 34.91% as of 16:11. I wish I could say that's because of the backlash to their scheme, but unfortunately I think it might be more to do with some board room shifting (I saw somewhere they were planning to change various board rules/start issuing extra shares etc) than the righteous indignation of e.g. the 2,417 people who have signed the Downing Street petition.

2,417 in a few days is pretty impressive for those petitions - it normally takes quite a lot longer for them to get that big. This really seems to have struck a nerve with net users...

[EDIT: Oops, so slooooooow to post :)]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

...or maybe some City-types have heard on the grapevine which way the Information Commissioner's Office is leaning on their little scheme..;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

By opt-out though, do they mean just the opt out cookie which still means that you are still going through Phorm services and they are still monitoring, just not actively displaying personalised adverts (e.g. not really a full opt-out), or like TalkTalk has said to do where opting out means completely bypassing the Phorm servers at the ISP level and getting a real opt-out so you have nothing to do with Phorm at all if you opt-out?

I would hope for the latter, but I fear it is likely to be the former

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Consider that information correct at the time of going to the press, having seen those kinds of emails before, then conflicting information given by the same team, it is very much a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Not their fault, they only publish what they are told.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

the way that email reads VM hell bent in going ahead and self destruction.

Also I feel either VM / PHORM or both are lieing. Someone keeping a log of either mac addresses or IP for this mystical random number to target us.

PHORM must think we are idiots.

Now the way I see it if it is IP address based then would assume I can kick the bloomin heads by changing MY IP with my router there confusing the destination.

I have also thought about a system idea but it needs to find out the way they targets us.

The Dephormation addon is good but I wondered if it could be addapted to cause a mis-information mismatch.

Allow them to infest us manipulate there devious ways and return back a false random number to try and report false information.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't know, after reading some of the 'discussion' on that shares site here the bad press does indeed seem to be a definite factor.

A comment by a user on that site was:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How secure is my website forums from Phorm?

I posted the following elsewhere, but have yet to receive a reply from anyone at Phorm:

After having read all the posts on this thread, I see that virtually no-one has brought up this aspect of the problem with Phorm. Forums that are visible to Member only ensure that no-one who isn't a member gets access - including bots as I have a total bot exclusion in my robots.txt file. If Phorm accesses my forums without permission they are as far as I can tell, falling foul of the DPA. Seeing as Phorm does not obey robots.txt comands, maybe all of us who own webstes and forums, and wish to keep them safe from prying eyes should send Phorm a DPA notice specifically refusing to allow them access?

Another point regarding this - phorm say they only collect regularly occuring key words from webpages, the rest is striiped out - well, usernames and aliases are regularly occuring keywords within forum pages, so how would the phorm software know that 'manxminx' is my username, and therefore is a piece of personally identifying data?

Why should I have to buy a security certificate to make my forums https? In other words, why should I have to pay to block Phorm? Website and forum owners should be able to opt out, yet no-one, Phorm included has brought this up. And what about members of social networking sites that have made their profiles friends only? If one of their friends use a Phorm enabled ISP, then Phorm has access to those private pages . . . .

Ali (Note to Phorm- that's my name, which is personal data as it identifies me. I do not give permission for Phorm to scan any personally identifying data within this forum post).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You make a very good point. I belong to two user groups where technical information which is commercially valuable is available only to those who pay a subscription. As the information contained within is only protected with username and password, why should a profiler be allowed to mirror what I pay for.

IMO it is an unwarranted and unwanted piggy back intrusion into areas that they have no paid for rights of entry. Of course they may argue that whatever is seen is instantly discarded but the fact remains that it is scanned and something of commercial value extracted albeit supposedly just advertising profiling.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

From my understanding they will not be taking data from form fields which is where details like this are entered. So unlikely to be picked up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well with so much conflicting information, or downright none at all its understandable.

I have to say this though, cookies do not need IP information passed to them to work. Ther's no point in going into the technicalities of my statement, as there is plenty of information out there. PHPSESSION (sp?) cookies, similar to those used on this site do not need IP information, just a session specific identifier.

I am not saying that Phorm aren't getting IP information, because many will not believe me, not even sure if I know for certain, I am just saying that setting cookies in a browser session is a lot less covert than people think.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

The fact is that people will perceive this to be Spyware even if it turns out not to be. The mere fact that this company has been involved with Spyware and Root kits is where they will ultimately fail as a company and a trusted part of the system.

The trust they need in this product will never be achieved.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I hadn't thought about the intrusion on closed areas of forums I am a moderator and have access to information that only mods and Admins of the froum can access.

I just did a search of keywords to see howmany times they are repeated on threads this program could net a lot of private data.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Indeed, the common and trusted spyware programs will have detection scripts in a matter of days when this system becomes mainstream, regardless of how well its sold on its customer privacy policy...simple as that.

As it stands its simply the case of identify a common OIX cookie denominator, then advising the client to remove it. And as posted already, plug-ins are now starting to be developed to simply block the cookie.....and a lot more.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

The problem is that peoples perception has been coloured by all the chinese whispers on this and other forums made by people with their own unfounded interpretations of what phorm is designed to do. This fiction then "becomes fact" in peoples eyes and the hysteria continues.

You could also argue that because the company was allegedly involved in spyware previously it would be the ideal company that could prevent it going forward as a "poacher turned gamekeeper". Someone as already suggested in the VM newsgroup that they use someone like that to test it.

The information that Phorm would use is probably the least likely of anything used by anyone else to capture personal info. You are at far greater risk elsewhere on the net.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

However they will never ever get my trust.

I WILL dump all my services from VM unless they can guarantee in writing that my data will not touch any equipment that have been installed anywhere to facilitate this selling of private data after i have hit the OPT OUT Button. If it passes through any equipment no matter where in the system it is and has been provided by Phorm or its agents and has Phorm designed software on it then i will not TRUST them to do as i have asked. Its that simple ?.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

And where would you go? It is likely that others will follow suit. Again there is misinformation as they categorically state that they do not collect private data.

I don't particularly agree with it but it does appear to be a mountain out of a molehill and everyone making rash decisions before all the facts are known.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Whatever the past misdeeds of Phorm and whatever their current merit (and I'm not convinced of that, by the way, I'm just being charitable), the fact is, privacy and freedom are two of the most jealously cherished attributes of the internet. Any suggestion of tracking usage, and worse, actually *using* the data thus collected, no matter what 'safeguards' are put in place, was always bound to lead to 'hysteria' as you call it. They should have seen it coming. Actually, they probably did, hence their signing up a megabucks PR agency to spin it for them.

I feel bound to point out, that any system which relies on human compliance for its security is flawed by design. The very fact that Ernst and Young *need* to check to ensure it's not being abused, demonstrates that is capable of being abused. And as surely as one person's stupidity can lead to 25 million child benefit records going astray, sooner or later that abuse, whether by accident or with malice, will occur.

Never underestimate the willingness of large corporations to resort to nefarious tactics when they think their bottom line is at stake. Sony and rootkits comes to mind - and were it not for the vigilance of one extremely accomplished blogger, we would still be completely oblivious to that.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

tend to agree with you there i staid with virgin for bb despite leaving for sky but if they go ahead with this i will be off to some other provider

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Agree with the first part but I have seen nothing that remotely suggests tracking and using data in the way you imply other than the way it is intended. apologies if I misunderstand you.

I saw no reference to human intervention in the system and I am not sure about your ref to E&Y. Anyone can make a claim about something. Unless it is checked how do you know it is true? (They said the Titanic was unsinkable. unfortunately nobody checked before it sailed). We have had almost weekly real personal data loss from various govt depts which are many times worse. Yet any outcry dies down after a few days despite the risk being actual as opposed to vaguely remotely possible if at all with this

Yes I agree with that but that will take human intervention and you can never eliminate risk entirely. Chip & Pin was supposed to reduce if not eliminate card fraud yet it has increased.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

I will keep moving till i cannot move no more.

I have received an email from BE Unlimited stating they are not signing up with Phorm. Looks like they will get my custom.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Well said I would also like to add my grievence.

I also in the camp a leopard does not change its spots.

I would never trust a company who admited to doing dodgy malware, rootkits to administer something of this magnitude in an angelic manner.


I simply dont trust them and firmly think they are scaring people to try make out there system is to protect us and in return we get there rubbish advertising. I really do feel there is lot porkies of its true intentions.

This so called phishing is preventable as long as we are vigilant.

Make sure the website is what it is by simple checks of the website before parting with sensative details. We dont need webwise or Phorm protection to do this and hold our hand with a smoking gun to our head.

If it was anti phishing protection why not VM setup a protection itself without dodgy companies inhand. Thats my ultimate issue with VM and Phorm are not being honest.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

So are you happy for you surfing habits being sold to a third party company for profit over and above what you are already paying VirginMedia for your Service. Are you then happy to be hit with adverts that you then have no control over that could have been taken from information that was detected from the last person in you family that used your PC. Are you happy that there could be instances where a child will be subject to adult situations because the previous user was a adult ??????

Are you happy that your data will still be sent to a Phorm server located in a Virgin Media pop sites even when you have Opted out, And given the past software and root kit infections that that equipment supplier issued out are you happy to trust that they will not just ignore you and use you data anyway.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

heres the potential reason the likes of Phorm want in on the market.
http://www.dailywireless.org/2008/03...data-for-sale/
"
Your Data: For Sale

A new study from comScore and The New York Times attempts for the first time to estimate how much consumer data is transmitted to Internet companies. It finds that the five largest Web firms — Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, AOL and MySpace — record at least 336 billion transmission events in a month, not counting their ad networks.
The analysis, conducted for The New York Times by the research firm comScore, is said to provide the first broad estimate of the amount of consumer data that is transmitted to Internet companies.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/03/37.jpg
“When you start to get into the details, it’s scarier than you might suspect,” said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of privacy group the Electronic Privacy Information Center. “We’re recording preferences, hopes, worries and fears.”
....
"

the full two pager here
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/te...ss&oref=slogin
"To Aim Ads, Web Is Keeping Closer Eye on You
By LOUISE STORY
Published: March 10, 2008
A famous New Yorker cartoon from 1993 showed two dogs at a computer, with one saying to the other, “On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog.”
That may no longer be true.

....
Consumers have not complained to any great extent about data collection online. But privacy experts say that is because the collection is invisible to them. Unlike Facebook’s Beacon program, which stirred controversy last year when it broadcast its members’ purchases to their online friends, most companies do not flash a notice on the screen when they collect data about visitors to their sites.

“When you start to get into the details, it’s scarier than you might suspect,” said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a privacy rights group. “We’re recording preferences, hopes, worries and fears.”

But executives from the largest Web companies say that privacy fears are misplaced, and that they have policies in place to protect consumers’ names and other personal information from advertisers. Moreover, they say, the data is a boon to consumers, because it makes the ads they see more relevant.

.....
Large Web companies like Microsoft and Yahoo have also acquired a number of companies in the last year that have rich consumer data.

“So many of the deals are really about data,” said David Verklin, chief executive of Carat Americas, an ad agency in the Aegis Group that decides where to place ads for clients.

..."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

They will not be. But could do... If they are parsing the entire HTML sent or recieved they will have visibility to this but will discard the data. What's not to say that in the future the company, the government or Mulder and Scully request this information.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent article.

Many good points, especially...

That last part is probably sadly true - most will probably just swallow the marketing & go along with it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

this comment on that share price site
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...PHRM.L&it%3Dle
1900 : 1985 (-31.84%)

sums up most investors thinking...
http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...ail&id=3947835
"Message

I know very little about this company and the technology, but the fact that there has been so much public opinion about it recently then I feel it must have something that someone will buy.

In truth I believe that AT&T are looking and if all the major players are on then no matter what the initial public backlash is there will be revenue.
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe we should all write to Liberty and see if they have any comments/concerns regarding this? Afterall, they are well known for their campaigns on human rights and privacy issues. What does anyone think?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ROFL
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...grul/comments/
"
Lost - one PhormPRteam member

By colin stone
Posted Monday 10th March 2008 17:44 GMT
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/03/40.png We have recently lost a member of our PR team.

He was last see hanging about several message board and forums
It is though he was posting misleading information about our spywear products and services, although not a member of our company

If found please do not return as our share price has tanked and we hold him fully accountable
thank you
Phorm Managment."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Yes but that is all ifs, buts and maybes. And you could say that about any website that the government or whoever wanted information from. All I am asking is people stick to facts and not conjecture or in some cases pure make believe.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

As opposed to other ads I have no control over either. Did not say I was happy with it. Just that a lot of people appear to be making things up as they go along. Your child would only get adult adverts if they went to an adult site. Adequate parental controls would stop that anyway. Don't understand the first part of your second point. As for the second part If the system works as stated they cannot do that even if they wanted to

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Oh, no you don't.

The "what if"s are an essential part of evaluating any system. If you're suggesting that it's good practice to take the Phorm service simply at the word of its inventor, without subjecting it to any critical analysis at all - which should, no, must, include the setting of credible future scenarios, in order to establish whether the inventor has a/ forseen and b/ allowed for them - then please tell me who you work for, so I can make sure never to buy any of their products.

Six months ago, it was pure conjecture that someone might take 25 million child benefit records off their secure database, burn them to a CD and put them in the mail. I'm quite sure that HMRC would have sworn blind that our data was secure because there were processes in place, and talk of someone making a CD of the data would have been pooh-poohed as pure conjecture.

Yet, here we are.

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

Not true. A child could get adult adverts if any other user of the computer was a user of adult sites - assuming the computer only has a single login. And I, for one, am not reassured by Phorm's assertion, in their FAQs, that most people have separate logins, which would prevent that from happening.

Even if it is true, *most* is not the same as *all*. Phorm are knowingly exposing children to adverts for porn.

There, add that to your list of hysterical anti-phorm postings. It's a corker. ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Most ads online are not intrusive and can be blocked, except those that come via the Vundo trojan. The fact remains we do not need Phorm`s relevant ads, i`ll pick and choose what ads to view online, not Phorm or my ISP. As for the Webwise protection, again, i do not need their protection, i control what protective measures i put in place, not Phorm or my ISP.

I am not going to sit back and wait until its implemented and then start complaining, not with the history of Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Jayceef1, didnt you read and understand the Phorm patent, its clear the profiler and related kit are far more able to track and abuse a users personal data than they are currently saying , you trust that they will not use all parts of these patents in their products for direct profit ?

perhaps your trusting that they are rather like the oil companys buying up patents that are never used for direct profit! :shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

The Phorm ElReg interview states that porn (and gambling) are not one of the catagories (at the moment?). Being as Porn is one of the most profitable internet industries is that really going to remain over time. This system could target sites down to peoples tastes in porn (as long as there are over 5,000 of them).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03...gess_ertegrul/
I would think that medical and tobacco and gambling are probably the three most profitable parts of the internet.
All the interview highlights to me is that a system that can read all data on the isp is being created but we are nice people that have coded it in a way that means we won't look for bad things. Code changes over time, as do companies and peoples strategies and whats to say in time what was originally excluded becomes included, accidentially or intentionally?

---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------As Chris said part of the understanding process.
Phorm becomes a man in the middle of the process. At the moment my internet traffic goes to my CM and gets sent to my ISP who read the headers on the packets of IP data and send it on it's way.
What this is proposing is to read the contents of those packets and those you get back.

To compare this to the postal system, this would be the same as the postman picking up your mail from your house (as he does in the US), instead of delivering it based on the address (headers) on the front, opening it and reading the contents and making a note that No. 27 has sent off a request for a brochure to a luxury car company (which could not be worked out from the PO Box address on the outside of the letter). Passing that information on so you also get information back from many other car companies. There are laws about opening mail and people get sent to jail for it.

To compare to the phone system. The phone network gets a header of information (a phone number) to route your call to the recipient. In Phorms world they will then listen to the conversation and based on that I guess call you with appropriately targeted telesales calls. Perhaps you were chatting to a friend about how bad your VM BB connection is, now you will get calls from Sky, BE, Demon etc. The payback is that if you misdial the number and someone else picks up and pretends to be who you were speaking to (reminds me of when I was a kid, my friend had a phone number similar to the local civic halls box office, we used to take ticket bookings all the time :) ), they will jump in and tell you you are not talking to the box office but some silly teenager.

Now I accept that my employer has a right to do this to protect their reputation and meet their regulatory requirements, however why does my home ISP, my home phone company, my home mailman.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The silence is deafening so far Anonymouse.

I do await the patronising replies with interest and a keen sense of anticipation :erm:

Interestingly, I couldn't login to my online bank tonight. After ringing them it seems my "security code" had been blocked because it had been tried incorrectly 3 times - not be me it hadn't. Not that I'm paranoid or anything... :D

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Agree that what if scenarios need to be done but that would be based on the facts of how the system works not on your guesstimate. The CD issue could have been picked up in a what if scenario because it could and did happen.

For the second the ads are targetted by the advertisers at related sites so would need to be in an adult related site to get an adult ad. Besides which adult sites along with gambling and tobacco are not in the categories being used so a pointless argument. Another piece of misinformation

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

thats 'not being currently used' remember those patent capabilitys they have coded their apps to do...

just like, for instance, VM at one time didnt use STM but now they do, the ability to alter the kit was always there....

in other news:
hmmm.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a8704dda-e...0779fd2ac.html
"
Phorm backed by internet providers

By Philip Stafford and Andrew Edgecliffe-Johnson
Published: March 10 2008 18:33 | Last updated: March 10 2008 18:33

The three large internet service providers backing a new service from Phorm have stood by the Aim-listed online advertising group in spite of fears over privacy issues sending its shares down 31 per cent.
...
The company has also met representatives of the Home Office and the European Commission, which is working on a new privacy directive, to seek their approval of the technology.

Virgin Media, the cable group, said it was still some way from deploying Webwise. “However we have full confidence that the system meets all applicable guidelines for privacy and protection of personal data.”

One ISP indicated it would undertake further due diligence on how the technology should be deployed, but attributed negativity around Phorm to “a small number of very vociferous people”.
...
"

small Number indeed, wonder what the combined page count is for all the comments, anyone now?

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:03 ----------

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...ot_optout.html
"
TalkTalk to make Phorm use opt-in, not opt-out

One of the three big ISPs that has signed up to Phorm's web-tracking systems says that you'll have to choose to use it, not ask to be left out
March 10, 2008 4:37 PM


An email we've seen with the name of Charles Dunstone, head of Carphone Warehouse (and of course of TalkTalk) quotes him agreeing to the statement that "as far as TalkTalk is concerned, the Phorm system is never enabled until a user explictly decides to 'opt in'."

A PR for TalkTalk says that "It's certainly the case that Carphone has the policy that any of its customers who want to use Phorm have to positively opt-in.

Their belief is that customers should not get the service by default and that reception towards these type of services is always better if customers understand them and the benefit to them and want it - not if they found that, without their consent, data relating to their telecoms usage - however secure and anonymous - was being shared with others".
...
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good to see one company at least listening to customers fears, I can see I wil be arranging a BT line and moving to ADSL good job speed isnt important to me since I am a distance from the exchange.

Just would prefer slower speeds and my knowledge I am ot being spied on and force fed advewrts.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just a quick comment. A previous post on this thread said that this website is ad-supported. That was news to me! I didn't know this site has adverts as I don't see any ads at all due to my firefox plug-ins blocking all signs of adverts. No ads at all, ZERO, no pop ups, not even the ad holders or the empty spaces where these mythical ads are supposed to reside.

To be honest, I'm unsure about how many adverts one usually sees when surfing the web. I suppose (from what's been said here and by Phorm) it's a lot? I really don't understand why surfers put up with it. If everyone blocked ads then the likes of Phorm would be dead in the water before they even started - there would be no demand for their services!

Ali.

Note to Phorm: this post contains personal information about me. I specifically refuse to allow any Phorm software to scan or process this post.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, the replies I got (from Barclays and Barclaycard) weren't patronising as such; they just missed the point of what I was saying to them. :erm:
That's odd - and a little worrying - because I couldn't log into Barclaycard for a while last night. I don't usually have any trouble with it.

Hmm. One begins to wonder...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Your looking forward to this i can tell. You must have been one of the users that voted YES please sell all my information to the root kit and spyware companies i don't mind.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Me too Florence. Though I'm in an LLU enabled area, I'm quite a distance from the exchange, so that means getting a significantly lower speed than I'd like. However, its a price I'm willing to pay to receive an honest service.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

just a quick an update on the politicalpenguin website, - http://www.politicalpenguin.org.uk/blog/p,299/

as usual, certain questions have not been engaged :/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And the answer to question 3, Phorm have paid the ISP's nothing!

So VM aren't selling our privacy, they're giving it away for free.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This was posted this morning - http://www.londonstockexchange.com/L...614&source=RNS

right there in that first paragraph, porky pies anyone, or just economical with the truth?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

Another person making incorrect assumptions without actually taking on board facts. I rest my case.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Over the past 2 weeks Phorm have worked very hard to say no personal data, yada yada is collected.

However the patent aplication tells a different story from the spin.

Below is my post from the spy forum, and I would love to hear from Phorm and the PR people if they dont keep personal data, why have the spent the time and effort in papenting a technology that not only does keep personal data, but goes far wors into invading privacy then the public statements ever said.

Below is my post on the spy forum (bigbadcol) aka (bubblehelp)

I am sick of Phorm and the misleading spin they are placing on this. As the patent application clearly shows . Too many lies have been told by phorm and the PR team. All of which can be proved to be deception to the community.

http://www.freshpatents.com/Targeted...hp?type=claims

for example

"where the script is configured to set a cookie in the browser, and where the cookie contains at least a portion of the browsing information. "

A COOKIE CAN BE TRACKED. IT IS STORING PERSONAL BROWSING INFORMATION. You lie Phorm

"Context reader 40 is not limited to acquiring keyword or other contextual information pertaining to a given web page. Indeed, the browsing information may be collected so as to also include historical data pertaining to the browsing performed "

Again Phorm have been lying. The truthe of the matter is in the patent.

"Based on analysis occurring at the proxy server, the proxy server may modify client-requested data it receives so that a targeted advertisement appears on a web page requested by a client"

So you are changing the data stream Changing the requested data. Lie number 3 Phorm.

SPIN AND MORE SPIN WILL NOT CHANGE THE FACT OF THE PATENT APPLICATION.

And you say you dont collect personal data do you. Er this is what your patent says

"As explained above, the context reader may be configured to more than just keyword and other contextual data pertaining to a given web page. The context reader may also include behavioral data (e.g, browsing behavior), other historical data collected over time, demographic data associated with the user, IP address, URL data, etc."

Note the section

"The context reader may also include behavioral data (e.g, browsing behavior), other historical data collected over time, demographic data associated with the user, IP address, URL data, etc."

Er whats that you say -"you dont collect IP addresses. Your patent says... YOU DO.

You Lie Again Phorm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]
 

You never have and or do not have a case to rest.

I see you are on a mission to dismiss everything or every concern people genuinely have about Phorm - so what is the point in arguing with someone who believes black is white?

Just take on board the fact that some users and there is a lot of these, that they do not want to have their data tracked by their ISP so it can be sent to a third party such as Phorm. End of story.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

VM would get a cut of the advertising revenue. Effectively the same thing without any risk on Phorms part and VM taking a huge risk with their customer's loyalties.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What that doesn't say is whether people are opting in to "relevant adverts" or opting in to the "all your browsing belong to us" scheme. My money is on the former of those with the latter being a given to all customers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all
Phorm will be hosting another live webchat with the CEO and CIO tonight at 20.30 UK time - again the URL is http://www.webwise.com/chat
Thanks
PhormUKPRTeam