The London Broadband Situation

[ntluser]

Life wouldn't be complete without a broadband thread dedicated to the suffering and woes of London customers in their battle to get broadband, so I thought I'd start one if only to find out what's happening.

So is Lewisham fully connected for broadband? And what about the other parts of London?

Did the London campaigners get broadband or are they still waiting? Or did they get fed up of waiting and get ADSL from BT?

If anyone can shed light on these and other related questions, please feel free to enlighten us.

;)

[homealone]

afaik Woolwich is connected & routes through Lewisham, I'd imagine other local areas, like Catford, Greenwich, Brockley & Deptford, are too - anyone know for sure?

[Neil]

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=2944&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=3036&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=1704&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=548&highlight=london+broadband

We've been here many times I'm afraid ntluser, & are still no closer to getting a definitive answer.

I know from peeps I met/spoke to at ntl Hook, that it will cost far too much money for ntl to bring BB to all of their London areas, I have said this on the site(s) many times, but still people insist on dragging it up again. ;)

[NoBB]

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=2944&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=3036&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=1704&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=548&highlight=london+broadband

We've been here many times I'm afraid ntluser, & are still no closer to getting a definitive answer.

I know from peeps I met/spoke to at ntl Hook, that it will cost far too much money for ntl to bring BB to all of their London areas, I have said this on the site(s) many times, but still people insist on dragging it up again. ;)
I do think people still drag it up again. But they will continue to 'drag it up' until they get some kind of answer from ntl. I have been watching the London debate on this forum for a long time now, and I have noticed, with regret, that anytime that London Broadband or CR3 questions are raised it seems to spark off arguments. Mainly between those who do not care about what is happening (or not) in London, and those who actually are trying to seek some answers via this forum, and also gain support from fellow ntl customers. I do not think that those who raise questions on the London issue should always be summarily dismissed by other members, or as seems to be more often the case, by moderators.
:shocked:

[ntluser]

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=2944&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=3036&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=1704&highlight=london+broadband

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=548&highlight=london+broadband

We've been here many times I'm afraid ntluser, & are still no closer to getting a definitive answer.

I know from peeps I met/spoke to at ntl Hook, that it will cost far too much money for ntl to bring BB to all of their London areas, I have said this on the site(s) many times, but still people insist on dragging it up again. ;)

Thanks for the links, Neil, though most of them seem to lead to threads from June 2003.

I was just interested to see if the plans which Chris Collinson outlined on NTHW.com had been implemented and if all the areas he mentioned were now receiving broadband. I was also interested to find out if regular London campaigners like RippedOff, Inkblot, Hawkmoon and others had, after all their work (and mine!!) finally got the service they were after.

Much of the information obtained about London was 'leaked' rather than it being an official press release. The fact that customers had to press to get answers made them more annoyed and made the situation worse.

Even when NTL did finally come up with a plan and a statement there were no regular progress reports. Honest communication with customers would have taken a lot of the tension out of the situation.

Given that NTL has the franchise for London but not the finance and possibly not the will to get things moving in London too, maybe the simple answer would be to sell the franchise to a company or possibly to a consortium of companies, who were willing to undertake the necessary development. Yes the costs would be high but then so would the profits.

[NoBB]

ntluser, no difference in most of London AFAIK. All the stuff said by Collinson was obviously bull****, and remember the letter that was sent out by him 'by mistake'? Unfortunately we will not hear from rippedoff as he has been banned! That's what happens to campaigners! The most recent information that I have had from ntl directly is that there is very little chance of broadband or interactive / CR3 becoming available in all of London before 2006 at the very earliest - if at all. In my area (same as rippedoff!) of Lambeth, I was told maybe by early 2007. How anyone can come up even with these possible dates though is beyond me, as there does not yet seem to be a commitment to upgrade London, never mind a plan! So do not take any of these dates as 'gospel' - I am as much in the dark as everyone else. I do however welcome this thread being re-started - we do need to keep up the pressure and keep asking the same old questions.

[poolking]

Maybe if NTL hadn't gone on their spending spree in the 90s, and decided to take their time in acquiring the franchises, I reckon they would have had enough money to give London broadband.

Maybe they should have just bought the London Franchises and totally upgraded the network in London then stood back and wait for the money to roll in and then buy other franchises when they could afford them.

[NoBB]

Maybe if NTL hadn't gone on their spending spree in the 90s, and decided to take their time in acquiring the franchises, I reckon they would have had enough money to give London broadband.

Maybe they should have just bought the London Franchises and totally upgraded the network in London then stood back and wait for the money to roll in and then buy other franchises when they could afford them.
Although I agree that your 'maybe' theories are OK, it does not really matter what they maybe should have done - what matters is what are they going to do now, and when! I think Londoners (and others who still are without BB) really want to know is some hard facts about the future, whether it be good news or bad - at least they will know where they stand, and can go to another provider if they want. Currently, the ntl practice seems to be to keep customers by constantly promising 'coming soon'. Yes, they still do that!
:Yikes:

[altis]

Keep your eyes open for UK Broadband (AKA Pound Radio and PCCW) who recently won many of the 3.4GHz wireless broadband licences.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/wireless/0,39020348,39149852,00.htm

[poolking]

Although I agree that your 'maybe' theories are OK, it does not really matter what they maybe should have done - what matters is what are they going to do now, and when! I think Londoners (and others who still are without BB) really want to know is some hard facts about the future, whether it be good news or bad - at least they will know where they stand, and can go to another provider if they want. Currently, the ntl practice seems to be to keep customers by constantly promising 'coming soon'. Yes, they still do that!
:Yikes:
The only way I can see it is for NTL to plunge itself even further into debt with a huge loan to fund the London upgrade.

[BBKing]

Which isn't going to happen. Piecemeal upgrades to selected areas is the way it's going.

ntl didn't buy 'the London franchises', they bought the residential business of C&W, which was running the former VCL parts of London at the time, as well as large areas in the rest of the country. The history of that deal is well documented elsewhere, it was the height of the .com boom and money was easier. C&W weren't going to hang onto the poor cable in London, why would it would bleed money supporting a shrinking userbase (no chance of any upgraded services) when it wanted out of the residential business anyway?

[Chrysalis]

I thought BT took good care of you guys in london, maybe ntl decided they cant compete against the 8mbit ADSL thats available in london.

[Ignition]

I thought BT took good care of you guys in london, maybe ntl decided they cant compete against the 8mbit ADSL thats available in london.

That still isn't a commercial product, is in trial stage, and is only available in 35 of over 100 London exchanges - pop into the Bulldog forum on ADSLGuide for more info!

Certainly nothing to do with BT though - on their lines London, like everywhere else, is limited to 1Mbit on all BT Home products, 2Mbit on business products, and 2Mbit on certain Datastream 'Home' products supplied over business classed lines.

[Neil]

BB in London in the ex Videotron areas that have not been enabled already, ain't gonna happen IMHO.

[Chrysalis]

yeah I was wrong its not BT who provide the super ADSL services its easynet and bulldog, but whats overall london ADSL coverage like at the moment. over 95% ?

[hawkmoon]

I was just interested to see if the plans which Chris Collinson outlined on NTHW.com had been implemented and if all the areas he mentioned were now receiving broadband. I was also interested to find out if regular London campaigners like RippedOff, Inkblot, Hawkmoon and others had, after all their work (and mine!!) finally got the service they were after.

.

I gave up waiting, went back to BT (taking my phone with me) and got ADSL - which I am very happy with.

It seems very unlikely that NTL will sort the issues for a very long time.

[bigitup_j]

The first quarter increase in profitability is particularly encouraging since it occurred at the same time as we continued to invest in initiatives to drive additional revenue growth and margin expansion in 2005 and beyond. These initiatives include upgrading 545,000 homes served by our London network, thereby enhancing our broadband and television capability;

that is from the ntl press release HERE (http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/releases/pdf/2004Q1.pdf )

so ntl will be upgrading London THIS year...because ntl wants the improvements by 2005 and beyond...

so it's very good news for Londonites.

:D

[Neil]

that is from the ntl press release HERE (http://www.ntl.com/mediacentre/releases/pdf/2004Q1.pdf )

so ntl will be upgrading London THIS year...because ntl wants the improvements by 2005 and beyond...

so it's very good news for Londonites.

:D

Just how many customers does ntl have on it's London network? (far more than the 545,000 quoted above I'll bet ;) )

The situaltion hasn't changed-when people refer to 'Broadband from ntl in London' they are referring to the areas in West/North West London (Ealing/Acton/Harrow etc) which were originally ex 'Videotron' areas, & were very poorly/cheaply built.

It'll be a cold day in hell before anyone gets ntl BB in those areas, believe you me. :(

[bigitup_j]

i think ntl has just 25% penetration in London (compared to 55% in teeside).
out of 545,000 households (i swear there's more than that in london!!)
so there's just 136,250 customers. i'm sure there are more. :confused:

probably the areas that cost more that £1,000 to upgrade are left out! :rolleyes:

but, who knows, maybe ntl will do something. maybe we've underestimated ntl... :erm:

[Neil]

but, who knows, maybe ntl will do something. maybe we've underestimated ntl... :erm:

They won't do anything-they can't afford to, it's simply not worth their while.

I saw the plans for those areas, & a projected cost/return plan, & it just was not feasible in any way, shape, or form.

Sorry ex Videotron peeps, if you want BB, you better get xDSL.

[SMHarman]

Maybe if NTL hadn't gone on their spending spree in the 90s, and decided to take their time in acquiring the franchises, I reckon they would have had enough money to give London broadband.

Maybe they should have just bought the London Franchises and totally upgraded the network in London then stood back and wait for the money to roll in and then buy other franchises when they could afford them.

Or perhaps the finger of blame should more fairly be pointed at Videotron who knowingly built their cable network on the cheap planning to sell it on at a huge premium before the problems came to light. I'm sure the Videotron backers are doing very well for themselves these days.

[Neil]

Or perhaps the finger of blame should more fairly be pointed at Videotron who knowingly built their cable network on the cheap planning to sell it on at a huge premium before the problems came to light. I'm sure the Videotron backers are doing very well for themselves these days.

You are right-to a degree.....;)

Let's not forget that ntl have been promising BB in these areas for years in the knowledge that it will never happen, just using it as an excuse to sign up people for TV/phone packages. :nono:

Let's not forget....

ntl BB in W/NW London-Coming soon. :rolleyes:

Free dial up in ex Cable & Wireless areas-Coming soon. :dozey:

It was wrong then, & it is wrong today-believe me when I say.....

The rot starts at the top.

[Chrysalis]

neil how do you know so much when you dont work for ntl?

[Neil]

neil how do you know so much when you dont work for ntl?

Because I know many people within ntl, & also from running NTHW.com.

[Stuart]

Actually, poolking, SMHarman & Neil, I think it's a combination of all three.
If NTL hadn't gone as far into debt as they did taking over the cable companies, they would have had more money for upgrading.
Videotron did build a cheap and minimum quality network

NTL should not have advertised the service years before it becomes available.

[Neil]

Actually, poolking, SMHarman & Neil, I think it's a combination of all three.
If NTL hadn't gone as far into debt as they did taking over the cable companies, they would have had more money for upgrading.
Videotron did build a cheap and minimum quality network

NTL should not have advertised the service years before it becomes available.

No m8-ntl should not have advertised it. :nono:

End of story.

[Stuart]

No m8-ntl should not have advertised it. :nono:

End of story.Err, that's part of what I said.. Maybe I should have phrased it as "NTL should not advertised a service where it is not available".

I was also pointing out that IF either of the other two were not true, NTL may very well have had the ability to supply the service...I was actually agreeing with all 3 of you.

& I know for a fact that Videotron built their networks cheaply..

[altis]

Keep your eyes open for UK Broadband (AKA Pound Radio and PCCW) who recently won many of the 3.4GHz wireless broadband licences.

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/wireless/0,39020348,39149852,00.htm

Here it comes:
http://www.netvigator.co.uk/

£18 pcm for 512kbps down and 256kbps up.
£28 pcm for 1mbps down and 256kbps up.

[macuser_e7]

Given the near-100% gross margins available from supplying broadband, especially when delivered via STB where there is no incremental capital cost, I am surprised no-one at NTL can put together a business case for upgrading the ex-Videotron networks.

[bigitup_j]

ntl are planning to upgrade London now. not upgrading mind you, just planning...
ummmm :rolleyes:

:D