View Full Version : NTL Use of "Overseas" Call Centres
Sociable
10-07-2003, 18:11
Originally posted by ashg on .com
http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/sh...15&pagenumber=2
Dear All
I've been asked to post the following statement by Mike Bandiera, ntl's Director of Off Net and the person responsble for the Freedom product.
quote:
SNIP < "NTL are indeed using international call centres to roll out their excellent 'Freedom' product. For just £15 a month subscription you get £15 of free voice calls and unlimited internet access - fantastic value for money. >SNIP
The seperate issue about fears that these calls from India were not from NTL has been dealt with in the other thread which is still running.
What I wish to ask here is for views on the general principle of NTL using "overseas" Call centres not least when UK staff face redundency.
Would anyone "In the Know" at NTL like to post a clarification on whether or not the use of such overseas call centres is likely to expand in the future?
Are UK staff worried about the implications of this?
Are others users like myself concerned about this?
All comments for or against are welcome.
NB this duplicates my thread at .com but I wanted to make you here aware of the isue too.
peterska2
10-07-2003, 18:32
Well after dealing with a call centre in Bombay trying to get a fraudulent transaction on my mums store card sorted out i would be very worried about this.
They were trying to say that the transaction was genuine despite the fact that my parents were in southport that day and made a purchase from a store there and the card was fraudulently used in hull.
Now anyone with an ounce of sense knows that you would not go from manchester to southport to buy an item then over to hull to buy something then back home to manchester again.
It is an hour from here to southport - on the west coast nr blackpool in case you dont know.
It is 3 hours from here to Hull - on the east coast somewhere at the other end of the M62.
There is no way that anyone in their right mind would make the journey.
From this experiance and the fact that they refused to accept that the transaction was not ours and I had to travel to hull on the insistence of the call centre agaent I must say that if I dont know where I am ringing then I dont ring anymore. I only ring ntl coz I worked there and I only ring places like the DVLA and that coz I know where their offices are because I deal with them through work as well.
So here endeth the lesson where I say that foriegn call centres are a bad thing as they have not got a clue about the simple things that we take for granted and they no naff all about anything that may be of importance - like english geagraphy in this case.
Would be interesting to see if they even know that franchise 430 is bordering on franchise 435 and that they are in the NW region where ICMS is used as the primary billing system unless the bill is for a SACM where they then use SABS.
Little bit of information there but it is common knowledge around these parts and so I wouldn't be surprised if they thought that franchise 435 is in London or somewhere.
Rant over going peacefully now
Minor point, but credit card transactions may not show up on your credit card for several days after the purchase.
peterska2
10-07-2003, 18:41
Yes I know but they show the date of the purchase as well as the date on the statement.
Background in banking helps here because I can interpret a lot of the random code used by the financial systems to say when and where things were done and what card was used.
Sociable
10-07-2003, 18:53
Thanks peterska2 the points you make about "local knowledge" being important is extremely valid.
As well as avoiding errors like the one you quote that would be obvious to anyone based in the UK local knowledge also allows a degree of lateral thinking not possible without it.
peterska2
10-07-2003, 19:02
Originally posted by Sociable
Thanks peterska2 the points you make about "local knowledge" being important is extremely valid.
As well as avoiding errors like the one you quote that would be obvious to anyone based in the UK local knowledge also allows a degree of lateral thinking not possible without it.
Everybody Please note
I AM BEING THANKED HERE FOPR MY POST
Sorry back on topic.
There is no point in having a class for teaching the people what the weather is like over here as that is not useful and they have a set script and if you ask something that is not covered by a script that they have got prepared then they are not able to answer the question.
Sociable
10-07-2003, 19:15
Originally posted by peterska2
Everybody Please note
[b]I AM BEING THANKED HERE FOPR MY POST
Credit where credit is due.
(btw I had read your "Other" post so the thanks were somewhat deliberate :) LOL)
Having just received yet another "tele-marketing" call 10 mins ago, trying to sell me something I neither want nor need, I will wander slightly of-topic myself and just say that ANY tele-marketing is a nuisance regardless of where it is sourced.
It does, however, relate to the topic at hand as one posible reason for sourcing outside the UK could be to avoid UK legislation governing such activities.
Theodoric
10-07-2003, 19:18
Originally posted by peterska2
Everybody Please note
I AM BEING THANKED HERE FOPR MY POST
Sorry back on topic.
There is no point in having a class for teaching the people what the weather is like over here as that is not useful and they have a set script and if you ask something that is not covered by a script that they have got prepared then they are not able to answer the question.
The set script bit sounds true. I Had a problem with the floppy drive on my Dell PC and they went though the same routine again and again and again before I finally managed to get them to send an engineer out to change the drive.
Well personally ive called tech support for alot of companies from EA to Linksys, and i can catagorically say, i cant understand a F'ing word they say to me. Its not like you can request someone that actually speaks english, because im sure they're trying, but for gods sake, when you have a problem with your computer and youve been stressing about it for a day or 2, last thing you want is a problem with the helper!
Id even rather speak to an american! thats how bad it is.
The company I work for has a few callcentre's but recently opened two in Bangalore. I know theirs been tone's of complaint's about them but well their cheap that's how the company thinks were I work. They do work from a script if they go off the script they get lost. I've had to speak to them allot on the phone's and their hard work. I work in IT and so had to ask the question's when they have problems and christ its hard work. All you get is yes, yes, yes. no whats your name yes. I've been pulling my hair out with them and I'm not even a customer :mad: Another time I asked for someone's name over their and I got the reply "hang on while I go and get it" I swear no bull. They must be given english name's or something. When I finish work sometime's after dealing with them I dont know what day it is :spin:
Well, I was having to deal with HP support in 1997 and 98 a lot, and I gave up calling the UK support number. The routed all of their calls to a European call centre where most of the people I tried to deal with, spoke fairly good English UNTIL you started to get anywhere technical. I ended up calling the US number and getting things sorted out very quickly. So, it is not just the Indian centres that cause the probs.
th'engineer
11-07-2003, 13:14
I think that call centres outside are in some way better never met an indian that was not able to sort out problems over the line at a call centre.
The whole culture is customer focused
We have to accept changes like call centres overseas to get profits up
BubbleGum
14-07-2003, 19:02
Slave labour and cheap labour gets the profits up;
http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=3080090
btrundley
18-07-2003, 16:57
Having call centres manned by eager 'well' paid people, sure may help NTL'S staff wages and British Employment rights problem, however,Local knowledge and a good grasp of miltidialect English is a must..and what will happen to all Ntl's current staff?
th'engineer
18-07-2003, 18:00
I think its good the indian call centres speak English everyone can understand . Sometimes its hard to understand local dialects within NTL.
cjmillsnun
18-07-2003, 18:48
I work in a call centre for a Fleet Services company for an important contract (the MoD).
I routinely have to deal with 2 foreign call centres (Mercedes Benz 24 hr {in the Netherlands} and Iveco Assistance Non Stop {in Turin}). The service I get from these 2 centres is $h1te. As soon as I start talking about the ID required to get into the military bases, the centre hangs up, or asks me to explain slower or asks if anyone speaks the local language?!??, unlike DAFaid (provided RAC Commercial Assitance in Manchester).
For the life of me, I just don't understand why companies think that the cost saving is worth it. Customers do not want to speak to someone that they cannot understand!
Originally posted by cjmillsnun
For the life of me, I just don't understand why companies think that the cost saving is worth it. Customers do not want to speak to someone that they cannot understand!
Sadly, for all their grand words about customer service etc etc etc, most senior executive types look at the bottom line, start sweating, and then can't resist any chance to cut costs. It's a kind of primeval instinct. If they think they can save a few quid (and in fact it's quite a few quid, plus avoidance of a whole lot of euro-red tape employment laws), they will.
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 11:18
I think it would be far better for NTL to offer a 24 hour customer service for their customers. Obviously, there is a time difference in India and here, so why not split the shifts between the UK and India.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 11:22
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
I think it would be far better for NTL to offer a 24 hour customer service for their customers. Obviously, there is a time difference in India and here, so why not split the shifts between the UK and India.
this is one of your better ideas :spin: and i thought i would never say that :p
however at the moment i not think they will want to spend the money on implenmenting this :smokin:
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 11:45
Originally posted by grum1978
this is one of your better ideas :spin: and i thought i would never say that :p
however at the moment i not think they will want to spend the money on implenmenting this :smokin:
All my ideas are good!
Anyway, NTL should be able to spend the money based on efficiency savings, ie spend to save principle.
Areas where money could be saved:
By restricting the staff working hours between set times, NTL can reduce the number of incompetant middle management to supervise their staff.
As the call centre is open for a shorter time, they should be able to save on running cost and staff cost.
Better working hours will mean more happy, motivated staff and so reduce the number of staff currently on sick leave.
Everyone is happy including the Indians in call centres. However, I believe there is only a 4 1/2 hour time difference between here and India. This idea is better practiced in the states where there is a 13 hour time difference.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 12:14
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
All my ideas are good!
:LOL:
Anyway, NTL should be able to spend the money based on efficiency savings, ie spend to save principle.
Agreed but the outlay to make your idea work is quite high and could be better spent on other things at the moment :)
By restricting the staff working hours between set times, NTL can reduce the number of incompetant middle management to supervise their staff
:eek: ntl do flexi time at the moment?!?! Hours ntl staff work are set at the moment i can't see what you are getting at, do you mean an overtime ban?:spin: On middle management they could maybe look at that
As the call centre is open for a shorter time, they should be able to save on running cost and staff cost.
Doesn't quite tie in with your 24 hour service statement does it?
Better working hours will mean more happy, motivated staff and so reduce the number of staff currently on sick leave
Nothing wrong with the working hours at the moment :shrug:
This idea is better practiced in the states where there is a 13 hour time difference.
what you saying now that you want all the uk centres relocated to the states so your idea works better :rofl:
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 13:32
Originally posted by grum1978
:LOL:
Agreed but the outlay to make your idea work is quite high and could be better spent on other things at the moment :)
What outlay? Do you want NTL to spend money on redundancy instead?
:eek: ntl do flexi time at the moment?!?! Hours ntl staff work are set at the moment i can't see what you are getting at, do you mean an overtime ban?:spin: On middle management they could maybe look at that
I'm in a 9-5 job where I practice flexi time. I don't think you know too much about flexi time. I can't see why overtime is an issue for me.
Doesn't quite tie in with your 24 hour service statement does it?
Surely, you're not suggesting India and UK call centre opening at the same time. I thought you would of worked it out!
Nothing wrong with the working hours at the moment :shrug:
Are you an NTL employee? Please don't see this as an insult, though many people would!
what you saying now that you want all the uk centres relocated to the states so your idea works better :rofl:
Grum you need help with your reading. Let me explain, the idea will work better between US & India because night time in US is daytime in India. So if call centres work during day time then you get a 24 hour service where everyone works day time. Do you understand this?
There are no suggestions from me that UK call centres should move to US. However, when I speak to my brokers in the US, the standard of service is far superior then in the UK.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 13:49
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
What outlay? Do you want NTL to spend money on redundancy instead?
I'm in a 9-5 job where I practice flexi time. I don't think you know too much about flexi time. I can't see why overtime is an issue for me.
Surely, you're not suggesting India and UK call centre opening at the same time. I thought you would of worked it out!
Are you an NTL employee? Please don't see this as an insult, though many people would!
Grum you need help with your reading. Let me explain, the idea will work better between US & India because night time in US is daytime in India. So if call centres work during day time then you get a 24 hour service where everyone works day time. Do you understand this?
There are no suggestions from me that UK call centres should move to US. However, when I speak to my brokers in the US, the standard of service is far superior then in the UK.
No i don't need any hel with my reading thank you.
Firstly do you think that call centre's can just 'pop' up in India without any outlay? If so i think you need to rethink
In your origanal post you posted..
By restricting the staff working hours between set times
Which i took to mean that ntl operated a felxi time policy for there call centres, if thats not what you meant what did you mean by restricting the staff working hours ?
No i wasn't saying that uk and india call centre's should operate at the same time i would love to know where you got that idea from!
Who i work for has no bearing on this conversation and to honest it is no secert who i work for if you read threads and posts on this and other sites :)
And you don't think that US call centres would give corporate bull**** then?
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 14:08
Originally posted by grum1978
No i don't need any hel with my reading thank you.
Firstly do you think that call centre's can just 'pop' up in India without any outlay? If so i think you need to rethink
I don't think you fully understand how the call centre business or business world works. India already have their call centres built. They just waiting to win a number of contracts to from UK/US companies. No need for UK/US companies to build call centres. So in other words NTL will merely contract out their services.
In your origanal post you posted
Which i took to mean that ntl operated a felxi time policy for there call centres, if thats not what you meant what did you mean by restricting the staff working hours ?
No i wasn't saying that uk and india call centre's should operate at the same time i would love to know where you got that idea from!
I give you more time to assimilate my comments from my last post. Once you done this, get back to me if you still don't understand.
Who i work for has no bearing on this conversation and to honest it is no secert who i work for if you read threads and posts on this and other sites :)
So you do work for NTL then :D
And you don't think that US call centres would give corporate bull**** then?
No, they are very professional.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 14:19
You still require oulay to get the call centre up and running FACT! and yes i am aware of how the call centre business works :)
No i would still like you to answer this...what did you mean by restricting the staff working hours ?
If you really need to ask who i work for like i said read my posts and you will get the answer
:D
Call centre staff in this country are equally professional :)
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 15:16
Originally posted by grum1978
You still require oulay to get the call centre up and running FACT! and yes i am aware of how the call centre business works :)
And now you using so called facts:shrug:
The outlay would be from the call centre end and not from NTL end. I repeat this again, NTL IS MERELY CONTRACTING OUT THE SERVICES. This means they don't own the call centre, the equipment or the staff.
No i would still like you to answer this...what did you mean by restricting the staff working hours ?
So you still don't understand. Say this and I will answer.
If you really need to ask who i work for like i said read my posts and you will get the answer
:D
You went round the 'houses'. Anything but!
Call centre staff in this country are equally professional :)
Perhaps, but I wouldn't put NTL in that bracket. Else, why would there be a plethora of NTHELL sites?
grum1978
19-07-2003, 15:23
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
And now you using so called facts:shrug:
The outlay would be from the call centre end and not from NTL end. I repeat this again, NTL IS MERELY CONTRACTING OUT THE SERVICES. This means they don't own the call centre, the equipment or the staff.
So you still don't understand. Say this and I will answer.
You went round the 'houses'. Anything but!
Perhaps, but I wouldn't put NTL in that bracket. Else, why would there be a plethora of NTHELL sites?
So they don't need to train the people or get them access to the systems i class that as outlay don't you :confused:
You have not explained yourself as you are talking in riddles like you always do if your not going to explain yourself then we are just going to go round in circles (does anyone get the point UDT was trying to make when talking abt 'restrciting staff hours?)
Hardly round the houses who i work for is common knowledge on this and every board i post on :p
The reason why there are so many nthell sites is because they all don't agree with eithier the moding style of the orignal site or the direction the original site is going to take when community launches, BT don't have any sites like this do they :rolleyes:
Your views on ntl customer services are well documented and i don't except to change your mind on that anytime soon :)
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 15:44
Originally posted by grum1978
So they don't need to train the people or get them access to the systems i class that as outlay don't you :confused:
The problem is Grum is that you have a very closed mind. You are thinking that NTL have to build, own and maintain a call centre. You can't grasp the idea that NTL can contract the services to a third party. The third party would in a position to train their staff, build and maintain their own call centres.
You have not explained yourself as you are talking in riddles like you always do if your not going to explain yourself then we are just going to go round in circles (does anyone get the point UDT was trying to make when talking abt 'restrciting staff hours?)
You don't understand because you're out of your depth.
Hardly round the houses who i work for is common knowledge on this and every board i post on :p
So why not just say I work for NTL. Is it really that shameful?
The reason why there are so many nthell sites is because they all don't agree with eithier the moding style of the orignal site or the direction the original site is going to take when community launches, BT don't have any sites like this do they :rolleyes:
I must laugh :D The word BS comes to mind.
BT do not have sites like ours, of the same intensity and numbers!
Your views on ntl customer services are well documented and i don't except to change your mind on that anytime soon :)
It is not my fault customer is bad. Don't take my word for it. OFTEL says they are the second worst customer service in the telecoms industry.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 15:56
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
The problem is Grum is that you have a very closed mind. You are thinking that NTL have to build, own and maintain a call centre. You can't grasp the idea that NTL can contract the services to a third party. The third party would in a position to train their staff, build and maintain their own call centres.
You don't understand because you're out of your depth.
So why not just say I work for NTL. Is it really that shameful?
I must laugh :D The word BS comes to mind.
BT do not have sites like ours, of the same intensity and numbers!
It is not my fault customer is bad. Don't take my word for it. OFTEL says they are the second worst customer service in the telecoms industry.
UDT i can 'grasp what you are trying to say and i acknowledge that ntl do not need to own the call centres, but they ntl have to train the staff and this is what you don't grasp :)
I'm so out of my depth you will not clarify a point AS USUAL!!
No i am not ashamed of who i work for but i don't go and ask you who you work for because its nothing to do with anything and if you bothered to look around you would see refreneces of who i work for :rolleyes:
How is that Bulls**t?
the only reason ntlhell.co.uk was started was because they didn't like the modding style of nthw.com
the only reason this site was started was because they didn't like the direction the nthw.com site would take when community launched.
So wheres the bulls**t? and plz don't fob me off and just answer the question for once in your life.
Bt do have sites like this
for fixed line complaints that is UDT this does not include internet :)
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 16:13
Originally posted by grum1978
UDT i can 'grasp what you are trying to say and i acknowledge that ntl do not need to own the call centres, but they ntl have to train the staff and this is what you don't grasp :)
I'm so out of my depth you will not clarify a point AS USUAL!!
Indeed you are out of your depth. NTL will merely point out the standard of services under the contract. Is NTL really suitable to train call centre staff. Look at their current failure. Customers leaving NTL in the thousands. India have the skills and expertise to train their own staff.
No i am not ashamed of who i work for but i don't go and ask you who you work for because its nothing to do with anything and if you bothered to look around you would see refreneces of who i work for :rolleyes:
If you're not shamed by it why are you still carry on this nonsense.
How is that Bulls**t?
the only reason ntlhell.co.uk was started was because they didn't like the modding style of nthw.com
the only reason this site was started was because they didn't like the direction the nthw.com site would take when community launched.
So why not have mod-hell.com:D The world hell is featured in every site because of rubbish customer service from NTL. NTL knew about this which why they bought NTHW. They attempted to close the other site which is why this site has come about.
So wheres the bulls**t? and plz don't fob me off and just answer the question for once in your life.
I already given you an answer.
for fixed line complaints that is UDT this does not include internet :)
More customers use the telephone than the internet. So the complaints on fixed line telecoms is a good measure of customer service.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 16:21
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Indeed you are out of your depth. NTL will merely point out the standard of services under the contract. Is NTL really suitable to train call centre staff. Look at their current failure. Customers leaving NTL in the thousands. India have the skills and expertise to train their own staff.
If you're not shamed by it why are you still carry on this nonsense.
So why not have mod-hell.com:D The world hell is featured in every site because of rubbish customer service from NTL. NTL knew about this which why they bought NTHW. They attempted to close the other site which is why this site has come about.
I already given you an answer.
More customers use the telephone than the internet. So the complaints on fixed line telecoms is a good measure of customer service.
if ntl don't train them how do they know how to use the systems and product knowledge?
Ntl as you well know are expanding there customer base at the moment it certainly is not decreasing as you are trying to imply :)
Because i have posted many times abt who i work for and it gets very boring repeating myself :)
The ntlhell.co.uk site has only just moved away from 'attacking' nthw.com IMO the word hell was used in the name of this site because they wanted something that sounded like nthw.com
glad we agree abt the reason this iste was set up then :)
I am aware of that fact was just clarifing the point you made as some ppl might not of been aware that there were different stats for internet and fixed line :)
Undisputedtruth
19-07-2003, 16:47
Originally posted by grum1978
if ntl don't train them how do they know how to use the systems and product knowledge?
Team Phoenix Edit: Personal comments removed - Watch it sunshine. :nono:
Ntl as you well know are expanding there customer base at the moment it certainly is not decreasing as you are trying to imply :)
NTL has lost over 174,000 customers last year. So how is that expanding customer base?
The ntlhell.co.uk site has only just moved away from 'attacking' nthw.com IMO the word hell was used in the name of this site because they wanted something that sounded like nthw.com
I would say to keep up with traditions and a forum where customers can vent their frustrations due to woeful customer care.
I am aware of that fact was just clarifing the point you made as some ppl might not of been aware that there were different stats for internet and fixed line :)
I'm glad you agree about NTL having the second worst customer service in the telecoms industry.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 16:59
Originally posted by Undisputedtruth
Training manuals. I can't imagine the training to be difficult. Though
NTL has lost over 174,000 customers last year. So how is that expanding customer base?
I would say to keep up with traditions and a forum where customers can vent their frustrations due to woeful customer care.
I'm glad you agree about NTL having the second worst customer service in the telecoms industry.
lol
I don't think you you know the systems then some of them do need training from people that have experience of them.
PLEASE DON'T PERSONALLY ATTACK ME THERE IS NO NEED AT ALL TO DO SO
ntl added 27,100 new customers in the 1st quarter this year and i would expect similar figures when the 2nd quarter figures are released in a few weeks :)
if thats the kind of forum you like but it has been in the past just a rant site at nthw.com primarly and now thankfully it has changed that is good news.
the figures are there for all to see UDT :)
th'engineer
19-07-2003, 17:10
Most companies have call centres out in india and most companies get better service from there call centres out in india.
I have said before they are commited to customer service
ntl added 27,100 new customers in the 1st quarter this year and i would expect similar figures when the 2nd quarter figures are released in a few weeks
but how many would they have lost without bribes to customers in bogoff offers 3 for one and other such things which make the figures flawed
grum1978 saidFirstly do you think that call centre's can just 'pop' up in India without any outlay? If so i think you need to rethink
I am not going to enter any arguments because we all have different views on ntl and are not going to agree.
(even though I am right):p
The only point I would like to add to your post grum is, I wonder if the Indian government would give grants for a company to open a callcentre there?
If they are trying to attract business, I would of thought they would do this to encourage companies with the long term view of helping their economy.
I guess all jobs that can be conducted from an office/PC are under threat from this.
grum1978
19-07-2003, 17:43
Originally posted by th'engineer
Most companies have call centres out in india and most companies get better service from there call centres out in india.
I have said before they are commited to customer service
but how many would they have lost without bribes to customers in bogoff offers 3 for one and other such things which make the figures flawed
there are in my opinion only so many jobs that can be shipped abroad before the ecomony can take no more. The point you have made is a valid one about getting better productivity but at what cost?
I think we will disagree with your last point when people phone to disconnect with any company they are often offered an incentive to stay with that company its called a retentions tool not a bribe :p
Escapee said
I am not going to enter any arguments because we all have different views on ntl and are not going to agree.
(even though I am right)
:LOL: :rofl: :)
th'engineer
19-07-2003, 18:28
Come on grum there are retention tools, but the cost to profitability just to keep the shareholders happy like now.
When they see the cost of retention it will be jobs going again, its better to improve than circle the buoy again
grum1978
19-07-2003, 18:36
Originally posted by th'engineer
Come on grum there are retention tools, but the cost to profitability just to keep the shareholders happy like now.
When they see the cost of retention it will be jobs going again, its better to improve than circle the buoy again
ntl since i can remember have always offered any offers that are available to new customers to people that want to disconnect nothing new there.
the only thing that is new are the fantastic sales offers that are about at the moment even you have to admit the deals are hard to beat :p
KingPhoenix
19-07-2003, 19:16
Originally posted by th'engineer
Most companies have call centres out in india and most companies get better service from there call centres out in india.
I agree with this, at the end of the day it is cheaper to employ people in india, thus getting more staff for your money, thus the customer isnt waiting aslong......
Providing they speak good english and can deal with the problem, what difference does it make where they are?
The only downfall is the job losses here in the UK
th'engineer
20-07-2003, 09:39
Originally posted by grum1978
ntl since i can remember have always offered any offers that are available to new customers to people that want to disconnect nothing new there.
the only thing that is new are the fantastic sales offers that are about at the moment even you have to admit the deals are hard to beat :p
I agree with you but not at any price that will have an effect on profitability hence the need to lower the cost base with indian call centres
alan.ralskey
20-07-2003, 13:02
I think fair do's if they open call centres in India as long as they dont talk rubbish and actually are able to help and not just say set phrases.
If it saves ntl money then it is a good idea because look at all the trouble they have been having in that department.
Alan
Undisputedtruth
20-07-2003, 14:20
Originally posted by alan.ralskey
I think fair do's if they open call centres in India as long as they dont talk rubbish and actually are able to help and not just say set phrases.
If it saves ntl money then it is a good idea because look at all the trouble they have been having in that department.
Alan
I often wonder where is the source of all the BS from NTL, whether it was the management or staff. If BS originates from the staff then transferring the calls to India will highlight this. I don't think the Indians will BS us, it is not in their nature. If the Indians provide us with good customer service then why not use the call centres in India.
th'engineer
20-07-2003, 14:50
Well said UDT quite true have worked with many, they are honest and hard working .
Stephen Robb
23-07-2003, 15:08
Originally posted by th'engineer
I think its good the indian call centres speak English everyone can understand . Sometimes its hard to understand local dialects within NTL.
Oh my goodness gracious me!
I'd say UK regional dialects (apart from Scottish) are going to be far easier to understand than Indian accents.
th'engineer
23-07-2003, 15:19
They always speak proper english usually well educated to be honest you could not tell if it was an indian.
I have found the pronouciaton better than mine.
That's not such a strange thing to say, in this country you can't dare suggest someone softens their accent for fear of being accused of discrimination of some kind. In India meanwhile, they are more than happy to do what is necessary to get the customer experience right - including speaking neutrally-accented English and throwing in current idioms and slang words just for added authenticity.
If they can do the job, then let them. If they can't ... well, then we'll be able to tell whether management are more concerned with customer service or cutting costs by whether they move ops back here won't we.
This applies to all organisations will call centres BTW, not just ntl.
Enterian
23-07-2003, 15:27
Originally posted by Russ D
I'd say UK regional dialects (apart from Scottish) are going to be far easier to understand than Indian accents.
I think the question is more whether Indian's who have been taught "the Queens English" will be able to cope with strong regional accents.
Originally posted by Enterian
I think the question is more whether Indian's who have been taught "the Queens English" will be able to cope with strong regional accents.
Good point ...
Undisputedtruth
26-07-2003, 09:32
Originally posted by Enterian
I think the question is more whether Indian's who have been taught "the Queens English" will be able to cope with strong regional accents.
I think anyone would have difficulty in understanding regional accents.
Anyway, let's give the Indians a chance to provide good customer services.
Undisputedtruth
29-07-2003, 19:24
I would rather speak to an Indian graduate, fresh from University, rather than someone, fresh from the sheep farm in Wales!
Undisputedtruth saidI would rather speak to an Indian graduate, fresh from University, rather than someone, fresh from the sheep farm in Wales!
You are getting very personal now boyo!
Undisputedtruth
29-07-2003, 21:21
Originally posted by Escapee
Undisputedtruth said
You are getting very personal now boyo!
Seems like I getting more baaaaaaaaad!
Originally posted by Russ D
I'd say UK regional dialects (apart from Scottish) are going to be far easier to understand than Indian accents.
hey lay off the Scots I do not have an accent and all my mates can understand me:LOL:
rippedoff
01-08-2003, 12:27
It does not really matter who is in customer services or elsewhere answering the phone on behalf of ntl. The real issue is - do they know what they are talking about, and can they answer the customer's questions properly. The big problem is... ntl do not give their front line staff enough information, or keep them up to date with the latest information, or train them properly!
Only last night I had a phone call telling me all about how good the new telephone deal is... I asked them to compare the average of my bills over the last 6 months against what it would be if I signed up to the new deal. They said they couldn't access any of my information - all they knew was that I was an ntl customer, and didn't know what services I had, and that they could not get that information. WOW ! some sales team. Some good preparation there!
If they could have said to me;
' Over the past six months your average total bill has been £xxxx .If you signed up to the new phone deal, you would only be £xxxx each month, you know this would be fixed, and you would then make an average saving of £xxx per month',
I would have been convinced and probably signed up! But no.... ntl's usual crap amateurish approach to everything!
:td:
Oh, PS Yes leave the Scots alone... we can speak English better than most English persons can!
Undisputedtruth
02-08-2003, 13:44
Originally posted by rippedoff
It does not really matter who is in customer services or elsewhere answering the phone on behalf of ntl. The real issue is - do they know what they are talking about, and can they answer the customer's questions properly. The big problem is... ntl do not give their front line staff enough information, or keep them up to date with the latest information, or train them properly!
Only last night I had a phone call telling me all about how good the new telephone deal is... I asked them to compare the average of my bills over the last 6 months against what it would be if I signed up to the new deal. They said they couldn't access any of my information - all they knew was that I was an ntl customer, and didn't know what services I had, and that they could not get that information. WOW ! some sales team. Some good preparation there!
If they could have said to me;
' Over the past six months your average total bill has been £xxxx .If you signed up to the new phone deal, you would only be £xxxx each month, you know this would be fixed, and you would then make an average saving of £xxx per month',
I would have been convinced and probably signed up! But no.... ntl's usual crap amateurish approach to everything!
:td:
Oh, PS Yes leave the Scots alone... we can speak English better than most English persons can!
Well said.
Hopefully, when the Indians take over, there will be an end to the amaturish customer services approach. The sad fact is that many of the NTL UK staff will end up on the DOLE. Even McDonalds have standards!
Undisputedtruth
07-08-2003, 21:18
When are the Indians suppose to be taking over customer services?
th'engineer
07-08-2003, 21:34
The sooner the better if you ask me:D
andygrif
08-08-2003, 17:28
Originally posted by grum1978
ntl added 27,100 new customers in the 1st quarter this year and i would expect similar figures when the 2nd quarter figures are released in a few weeks :)
The figures I have seen, claim 144,000 (gross)new customers in the space of a year. However if there are 173,000 offs then the net is a minus figure of 29,000 over the year, or just over an average of 7,000 per quarter net loss.
In addition, although churn is down, so are customers, so this figure is not really an accurate measurment of retention.
In addition, overall group revenues are down by £10m in the first quarter of 03, or if the trend continues £40,000 ,000 sales less than last year.
As with all these things, sometimes it is harder to get the accurate information when you're an employee than it is from the outside, as the data they present to employees is meant as a motivational tool, focussing on positives.
grum1978
08-08-2003, 17:31
Originally posted by andygrif
The figures I have seen, claim 144,000 (gross)new customers in the space of a year. However if there are 173,000 offs then the net is a minus figure of 29,000 over the year, or just over an average of 7,000 per quarter net loss.
In addition, although churn is down, so are customers, so this figure is not really an accurate measurment of retention.
In addition, overall group revenues are down by £10m in the first quarter of 03, or if the trend continues £40,000 ,000 sales less than last year.
As with all these things, sometimes it is harder to get the accurate information when you're an employee than it is from the outside, as the data they present to employees is meant as a motivational tool, focussing on positives.
No not really as i read the same data as you :rolleyes:
i will reply in more detail when i get home but i disagree with most the points you have made and suggest you go and double check the figures and accuracy of your post ;)
andygrif
08-08-2003, 17:49
Quoting straight from the quarterly results that is sent to shareholders. The figures pertaining to 173,00 losses came from UDT, which is why I prefaced that sentance with the word IF.
Revenues for group are down 10m in Q1, EBITDA is up slightly, however CAPEX is down 20m year on year.
It's not easy, but I have been reading EBIDAT, now EBITDA results for many years, and you learn to read what isn't printed very accurately after a while.
andygrif
08-08-2003, 18:11
OK....i spent five minutes looking deeper into the figures:
Sadly there are some misleading figures contained in these results. Looking at total group revenues for Q1 03, revenue stands at 546.5m, stating that the same period in 02 is 556m. However looking at the figures for Q1 02, the total group revenue is stated at 639m. Shurely Shome Mishtake? Surely some 83m vanished from the P&L's.
Ignoring some strange figures and taking them at face value, my summary, all direct from the horses...so to speak:
Total Revenue 2002
2.33bn versus 2.9bn for the same period in 2001. Using the run rate of 546.5m for the benchmark for 03 would mean that revenues for 03 would total 2.186bn.
That is 15m down on last year and 72m down the previous year.
Subscriber figures:
Q1 03 - 27,000 gain
Q4 02 - 2,300 loss
Q3 02 - 29,000 loss
Q2 02 - 70,000 loss
Q1 02 - 73,000 loss
That is a net loss of 147,300 customers in 15 months, or in other words just sht of 5% of the net customer base lost. Not gross, net. Not good news.
As I said, you need to be able to read between the lines on a lot of this, only then can you understand the true meaning of what is being presented to you. Let's face it, these documents are meant to keep shareholders happy, not scare them witless.
th'engineer
08-08-2003, 18:33
What about the cost of bogoff and canx offers is that recorded
Lord Nikon
08-08-2003, 19:12
When you also look at a customer spending a MINIMUM of £30 / month the figures are more scary financially....
Per month, 147,300 customers pay £4,419, 000
over a year...
£53,028 ,000
In lost revenue...
And how often is your bill only £30?
Originally posted by rippedoff
Only last night I had a phone call telling me all about how good the new telephone deal is... I asked them to compare the average of my bills over the last 6 months against what it would be if I signed up to the new deal. They said they couldn't access any of my information - all they knew was that I was an ntl customer, and didn't know what services I had, and that they could not get that information. WOW ! some sales team. Some good preparation there!
You probably rec'd a call from a marketing department on behalf of ntl which is why they did not have your system records on their screens, due to DPA. Currently working on one at present so know how it works.
With regards to Indian Call Centres, I have no problem with them taking on Ntl:Freedom as we had stopped offering the Off Net service until they took responsibility. If they do a good job and provide the customer with a good service then I don't think anyone can complain but my opinion may change in the future if my job comes under threat.
grum1978
08-08-2003, 19:47
Originally posted by grum1978
No not really as i read the same data as you :rolleyes:
i will reply in more detail when i get home but i disagree with most the points you have made and suggest you go and double check the figures and accuracy of your post ;)
to be honest i agree with most of the figures you have put since my last post...will wait till tuesday when ntl announce their next lot of figures before i go into the discussion any deeper ;)
should be intresting reading no doubt:p
Undisputedtruth
09-08-2003, 09:08
Originally posted by andygrif
OK....i spent five minutes looking deeper into the figures:
Sadly there are some misleading figures contained in these results. Looking at total group revenues for Q1 03, revenue stands at 546.5m, stating that the same period in 02 is 556m. However looking at the figures for Q1 02, the total group revenue is stated at 639m. Shurely Shome Mishtake? Surely some 83m vanished from the P&L's.
Ignoring some strange figures and taking them at face value, my summary, all direct from the horses...so to speak:
Total Revenue 2002
2.33bn versus 2.9bn for the same period in 2001. Using the run rate of 546.5m for the benchmark for 03 would mean that revenues for 03 would total 2.186bn.
That is 15m down on last year and 72m down the previous year.
Subscriber figures:
Q1 03 - 27,000 gain
Q4 02 - 2,300 loss
Q3 02 - 29,000 loss
Q2 02 - 70,000 loss
Q1 02 - 73,000 loss
That is a net loss of 147,300 customers in 15 months, or in other words just sht of 5% of the net customer base lost. Not gross, net. Not good news.
As I said, you need to be able to read between the lines on a lot of this, only then can you understand the true meaning of what is being presented to you. Let's face it, these documents are meant to keep shareholders happy, not scare them witless.
Well done Andy.
When I first read the financial information sometime ago, I realise then customers were flocking in their masses away from NTL.
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030808/152/e5u6x.html
Take a look at the link above about all the happy Indian callcentre employees.:rolleyes:
Aplogies if it has been posted before.
Stephen Robb
10-08-2003, 18:09
Originally posted by Escapee
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/030808/152/e5u6x.html
Take a look at the link above about all the happy Indian callcentre employees.:rolleyes:
Aplogies if it has been posted before.
Not much difference to here then!
Marcus_Tandy
10-08-2003, 19:50
Originally posted by cjll3
Minor point, but credit card transactions may not show up on your credit card for several days after the purchase.
Inncorrect.
As soon as your card is swiped your credit card company is aware of any transactions been made, as well as the country and type of store the cards been used.
It takes a few days for items to show on your statment when the merchant banks the voucher.
But credit card companies will contact you within minutes if it suspects a transaction on the account is fraudent.
Stephen Robb
10-08-2003, 21:04
Yes but we must not forget that a lot of cards are cloned! I never let mine out of my sight, credit or debit, even if it means walking to other side of the restaurant or what ever. No-one makes a transaction with my cards without me being there.
Anyway, this is getting away from the thread. Sorry chaps just replying to #70!
andygrif
12-08-2003, 10:38
Originally posted by Marcus_Tandy
Inncorrect.
As soon as your card is swiped your credit card company is aware of any transactions been made, as well as the country and type of store the cards been used.
It takes a few days for items to show on your statment when the merchant banks the voucher.
But credit card companies will contact you within minutes if it suspects a transaction on the account is fraudent.
Not always the case. Fallback CC transactions, like the good old days where they had the manual machine that takes an imprint of the card, these can take ages to be logged by the banks.
Enterian
12-08-2003, 12:44
Also stores will sometimes have a 'floor limit' below which transactions are 'waved through' without having proper authorisation.
Enterian
I noticed an article in the newspaper today (Mail I think) that they are predicting the UK and USA are going to loose 2 million jobs to oversea callcentres.
I don't know if his news appears anywhere else, sorry I have no link it was good old fashioned paper I was reading.:)
Marcus_Tandy
13-08-2003, 19:25
Originally posted by Enterian
Also stores will sometimes have a 'floor limit' below which transactions are 'waved through' without having proper authorisation.
Enterian
Thats true some places do have a floor limit, but a lost and stolen check can be done on the card too even with the floor limits.
All this is going to change when Pin at Pos is introduced nationwide next year.
The CC vouchers are very rarely used now days as well.
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