View Full Version : [Merged] Manchester Proxies.
swoop101
23-02-2004, 22:03
When did the buggers re-install the Manchester proxies?
Netools shows I am now on cache4-bagu.server.ntli.net
No wonder I have probs getting to some of my fave sites :naughty:
jellybaby
23-02-2004, 22:05
noticed that i've got my proxy back tto :(
Florence
23-02-2004, 22:12
Last few days I think but I havent seen any problems so lets see what happens.
I noticed about a week ago that browsing was strangely slow, and looked and there were the proxies again - They appear to be different hardware this time, and lets hope that they can cope with the demand better
OldGeezer
26-02-2004, 20:45
Shucks - I hadn't noticed they were back.
Let's hope it stays that way :)
Florence
26-02-2004, 20:50
Already had problems the other morning was able to use MIRC, MSN ICQ or anything through the internet aslong as I didn't try to surf webpages none would load. They was working again a little later in the day. Lets hope it was just a hiccup and not the proxies showing they are not reliable.
th'engineer
26-02-2004, 20:57
Not proxied here yetDont tempt fate MAL:D
As said before if you have problems call your local franchise director
DrAwesome
26-02-2004, 20:59
I did post a link to some *free proxys* you could use on the NTL service a few weeks back (before i formatted my hard drive to re-install xp pro) unfortunatly i cant find the post to re-post the link again as the link is handy favourite to keep if you have any NTL proxy problems.
Graham M
26-02-2004, 21:20
Im on a Proxy again (bastids) and its really annoying, some of my regular WWW haunts now do not work properly WHY!?!?!?!
th'engineer
26-02-2004, 22:01
I did post a link to some *free proxys* you could use on the NTL service a few weeks back (before i formatted my hard drive to re-install xp pro) unfortunatly i cant find the post to re-post the link again as the link is handy favourite to keep if you have any NTL proxy problems.
thats a good idea but these proxies are supposed to be bomb proof design according to some of our NTL friends:D
DrAwesome
26-02-2004, 22:30
I found the free proxy link (http://www.stayinvisible.com/index.pl/proxy_list) 8o)
I think good information & links should be kept for future reference instead of getting burried.
Still proxy free here, :) for the moment:(
Strzelecki
26-02-2004, 22:43
The proxies have been back up for a while now (at least a month), well for us down in Stoke anyway (cache4-bagu...) keep having to change proxies away from the default every now and again as browsing goes to a crawl.
badnbusy
06-03-2004, 16:30
I went to a site i wanted to download something from. They only allow a certain number of downloads per IP (for obvious reasons) per day.
And it said: Sorry 62.252.192.4! Only 10 downloads per day!
Please visit us tomorrow.
WTF? That isnt my IP. So, I make sure I have no proxy set in IE. I don't.
I then said...OH NO, surely ntl havent turned default proxies on in Manchester (war coming up, i see it now)....
The proof of the pudding came when i checked a proxy lookup.
Oh no....
Stuartbe
06-03-2004, 16:32
Change to a different proxy - http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8783
They propobly only had the proxy servers off to work on them !
badnbusy
06-03-2004, 16:35
Change to a different proxy - http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8783
They propobly only had the proxy servers off to work on them !
I dont intend to have to change my proxy every few hours. That is no good for me. The point im making is that why havent we even been asked, or at least notified. Same old ntl. Action before plan.
So what now, slow browsing (again), banned from some sites unless i keeping changing proxy...
heck, cant even get to www.microsoft.com now I'm being proxied.
badnbusy
06-03-2004, 16:50
Can anyone else in Manchester get to www.microsoft.com ?
Can anyone else in Manchester get to www.microsoft.com (http://www.microsoft.com/) ?
Yep, loads fine here badnbusy.
Can anyone else in Manchester get to www.microsoft.com ?
yeah no problem with that site here :shrug:
badnbusy
06-03-2004, 17:19
Thats weird then...Still cant get there
The microsoft site is running slowly atm - I have tested it from non NTL connections. I can't access from my default proxy on NTL either.
swoop101
06-03-2004, 21:05
I pointed this out earlier
http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?p=149930#post149930
wondered how long before we started having problems again. :mad:
Florence
06-03-2004, 22:04
I can access the site no problems from Manchester
wizardman
08-03-2004, 15:11
I can access the site no problems from Manchester
try this adress and it should be displaying an ip but is showing a proxy address :confused: http://www.whatismyip.com/
:cry: :cry: I'm proxied now :cry: :cry:
Can anyone else in Manchester get to www.microsoft.com ?
I can't either
Florence
08-03-2004, 15:30
we all seeem to be showing the proxy IP with those online ones but a script I use in MIRC shows my correct IP address.
You can test with this > http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp
REMOTE_ADDR 62.252.192.12 CLIENT_IP HTTP_X_FORWARDED_FOR XX.X.XXX.XX
Proxied :@
Damn NTL, why cant they leave the proxy off - it causes more trouble than its worth...
[Admin Edit(Mick):- Real IP Address Removed.]
Chrysalis
08-03-2004, 17:17
Leicester proxies were turned on when they did that major maintenance 2 weeks ago, before then they were turned off since I signed upto ntl and that was last august in 2003.
Since they been turned on I have suffered drasticly reduced http performance.
kitty proxies only affect http web pages, they not used for other applications like mirc.
Chrysalis
08-03-2004, 17:30
Thank you.
Your complaint has been registered under ref ONXXXXX.
Once we have investigated your issue, we will contact you in order to gain a resolution and bring the matter to a close.
As you can see I registered a complaint, I also rang up 2 days ago threatening to not pay, so far they only offered to look into it.
downquark1
08-03-2004, 17:32
What's a new style proxy?
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 18:45
What's a new style proxy?The ones that take 1.5 mintes to load if someone from NTL can read this cache 10 is playing up.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
[Admin Edit] (Neil)-Innappropriate comment removed. :nono:
Suggest everyone get onto customer services in the NW ask for Alan Grant
The ones that take 1.5 mintes to load if someone from NTL can read this cache 10 is playing up.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Suggest everyone get onto customer services in the NW ask for Alan Grant
And the reason that you continue to be an ntl customer is.......? :erm:
The_real_dj
08-03-2004, 18:55
geezz im proxied as well!!! it aint half cockin up my dynamic dns!!! :(
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 19:15
geezz im proxied as well!!! it aint half cockin up my dynamic dns!!! :(
Looks like the gangs all gathering again.
[Another Admin Edit (Neil)-please stop provoking other members Th'eng. :nono: :
Not noticed any problems ATM, going through cache 10 as well.
The_real_dj
08-03-2004, 19:19
Looks like the gangs all gathering again, wheres justanothernoob
lol been a bit quiet on the forum front recently but im comin back with avengance l:D :D :D
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 19:30
Not noticed any problems ATM, going through cache 10 as well.
surprised im on winnerish proxy cache 10 was playing up
blue jammer
08-03-2004, 20:00
I did wonder if something was up, I'd get about 3k of a webpage loading and it'd freeze, I just put in a proxy in Cambridge instead and it's been fine since, I don't mind swapping proxies as long as I have a connection.
To all those whining like little girls about this, why not do something about it yourselves, instead of waiting for NTL to resolve it, we've had proxy issues before in a lot of areas, just switch to another one, it's that easy!
:rolleyes:
Don't switch to another one, it masks the real problem and upsets our load calculations.
th'eng - how do you know you were going through cache10? Just testing how much people know of how caches work. I'm perfectly willing to admit there's a problem if I see some evidence.
Florence
08-03-2004, 20:31
kitty proxies only affect http web pages, they not used for other applications like mirc.
I know
I was showing another way for someone to get you IP number as the webpage that many use to check their IP numbers only shows the proxy number.
Florence
08-03-2004, 20:42
Don't switch to another one, it masks the real problem and upsets our load calculations.
th'eng - how do you know you were going through cache10? Just testing how much people know of how caches work. I'm perfectly willing to admit there's a problem if I see some evidence.
I am on cache1-mant.server.ntli.net and have found pages slow loading and I was trying to register a domain name with 123-reg and gave up as it never finished checking if it was available.
I have to say things have slowed down since proxies was put back on. I can get around the websites just they are slow and since the proxies I can't access the BB+ it apears my 3 months free are now up early as it never opens the page for me to look or listen to anything. I cannot reregister as when you click to use it now nothing happens..
:(
I am on cache1-mant.server.ntli.net
How do you know?
Also, I hope anyone having problems is calling in to report them. As usual I look a fool when I tell people unofficially that I think there are issues and then can't back it up.
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 20:57
Don't switch to another one, it masks the real problem and upsets our load calculations.
th'eng - how do you know you were going through cache10? Just testing how much people know of how caches work. I'm perfectly willing to admit there's a problem if I see some evidence.
checked on all net tools BBK
swoop101
08-03-2004, 21:03
How do you know?
'cos we use things like THIS (http://www.all-nettools.com/pr.htm) that tell us the proxy. :D
Florence
08-03-2004, 21:14
How do you know?
Also, I hope anyone having problems is calling in to report them. As usual I look a fool when I tell people unofficially that I think there are issues and then can't back it up.
Robin walker link gives you the ip and cache. http://www.all-nettools.com/pr.htm
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 21:17
Robin walker link gives you the ip and cache. http://www.all-nettools.com/pr.htm
Thats what i use
Chrysalis
08-03-2004, 21:30
ntl are hard to understand, their aup is designed just for web browsing, then they turn on proxies that remove the advantage of having a faster connection in the first place.
ian@huth
08-03-2004, 21:45
Don't switch to another one, it masks the real problem and upsets our load calculations.
th'eng - how do you know you were going through cache10? Just testing how much people know of how caches work. I'm perfectly willing to admit there's a problem if I see some evidence.
It's alright saying don't switch to another one but we do want to actually connect to sites at times. I would sooner have your load calculations upset and be able to use my connection rather than you having accurate load calculations and me having no access to most of the sites I want to go to.
Except that by switching en masse you're merely transferring the problem. I don't particularly want to get into an argument about it, apart from anything else I'm beginning to think there might be a problem here, but it won't get fixed except by people biting the bullet and ringing up about it.
Oh, and that link doesn't show you which proxy you're on, it merely shows the proxy caching content from the IP address of that particular web server. Different thing entirely. You're on a set of proxies, not a single one, it's important to remember that when it comes to diagnosing problems*
*apart from anything else, if you can see that page it indicates that there *isn't* a problem with the cache it thinks you are on, as you have been served a page by it, thus giving the opposite diagnosis to what's really happening.
Having read this thread I am also suffering a similar problem here is Surrey. I am/was on "cache1-herm.server.ntli.net". When I sent a document via IE to the Open Uni it couldn't be opened, but when I sent it via mail it was fine. I have changed the proxie all is fine.
I do agree with BB King that changing masks the problem, but I needed to resolve my problem pronto or I lose marks
th'engineer
08-03-2004, 22:35
Having read this thread I am also suffering a similar problem here is Surrey. I am/was on "cache1-herm.server.ntli.net". When I sent a document via IE to the Open Uni it couldn't be opened, but when I sent it via mail it was fine. I have changed the proxie all is fine.
I do agree with BB King that changing masks the problem, but I needed to resolve my problem pronto or I lose marks
NTL will never learn they will just end up losing customers in the north west as BBK says phone up complain see here (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/?page=info)for Alan Grant in the NW
I'm in the South mate. I will be phoning Crawley Court NMC and DTOC Langley (IP Sur) in the morning. Its ****e TBH, this happened last year and no one wanted to know!.
I am on cache1-mant.server.ntli.net and have found pages slow loading and I was trying to register a domain name with 123-reg and gave up as it never finished checking if it was available.
I have to say things have slowed down since proxies was put back on. I can get around the websites just they are slow and since the proxies I can't access the BB+ it apears my 3 months free are now up early as it never opens the page for me to look or listen to anything. I cannot reregister as when you click to use it now nothing happens..
:(I can honestly say that I have noticed no difference at all, just tried BB+ ( forgot I had 3 months free) and it seems faster than when I signed up last month.
th'engineer
09-03-2004, 06:47
I have a theory that in the NW people have more than one PC connected therefore the proxies need to handle up to three times the normal load.
Thats why they fall over as they are only speced to handle assumed load not x3
They would have three times the load if they were all being used simultaneously. Mind you it's a good point, the average BB equipped household these days will have >1 PC, although possibly not much greater.
I am/was on "cache1-herm.server.ntli.net"
No you aren't, as explained earlier. The sooner people grasp that they aren't 'on' a particular proxy the better. You're on Hersham proxies. Thanks for the report though.
Ringing DTOC will just annoy them, partly because they aren't customer facing but mainly because they're the wrong people - they look after proxies for STB interactive, but have nothing to do with broadband apart from STB registration and provisioning. NMC do look after them though, but aren't customer facing either.
Ringing DTOC will just annoy them, partly because they aren't customer facing but mainly because they're the wrong people - they look after proxies for STB interactive, but have nothing to do with broadband apart from STB registration and provisioning. NMC do look after them though, but aren't customer facing either.
Yeah, I love annoying them!!. I'm not only a customer but also a network engineer, and its bloody hard for me to get them off their fat a***s to do any thing!!....but here goes
wizardman
09-03-2004, 18:04
AHEM can anybody retrieve their msn hotmail thru msn messenger and btw im on cache 10 in Lovely Bolton :pp
No you aren't, as explained earlier. The sooner people grasp that they aren't 'on' a particular proxy the better. You're on Hersham proxies. Thanks for the report though.
Yes it's the port 80 traffic redirectors (e.g. Cisco WCCP routers or Layer 4 switches) which dynamically assign which cache that you're going through for any particular request.
They can redirect the request based on various things such as cache load, requested URL or source ip. The requested URL is a useful consideration so that content doesn't get duplicated across caches.
So that's why if you are having problems then ntl will prolly require at least your ip and destination URL (and region) if they are to know which cache you are likely to be going through.
Of course if you manually specify a proxy then it is fixed and you bypass all that mechanism.
Chrysalis
09-03-2004, 18:50
well its not fixed because you still using a proxy, I want to make one thing clear here I do NOT want to be using a proxy to access web pages, it was working fine for months so I can see no good reason why ntl need me to be using proxies now.
th'engineer
09-03-2004, 19:23
BTW are they working tonight or should i stay on the winnerish proxy
Seems OK here ATM., Th'eng :)
th'engineer
09-03-2004, 19:37
Seems OK here ATM., Th'eng :)Still think we have more users up here they switch em on they fall over in the first few days .
Wheres justanothernoob to explain why, he ranted about how good they are.
[Admin Edit(Mick):- Personal comments removed-Please lets not inflame the situation.]
I wondered why n00b had stopped talking to you, eng. Useful chap to annoy into silence, wasn't he?
As I've said before, Manchester's been split in two since the last proxy f-up, and there are six more caches in your half than there were in the whole area the last time. Are the problems as bad as they were then (when I fully accept they were chronic).
im on cache 10 in Lovely Bolton
AAArrgh. Stop it.
Still think we have more users up here they switch em on they fall over in the first few days .
Wheres justanothernoob to explain why, he ranted about how good they are.
[Admin Edit(Mick):- Personal comments removed-Please lets not inflame the situation.]
Then if you think we all come out with BS then dont bother phoning me when you have a problem again phone 151 like everyone else. i dont want you to come on here and say i or any other ntl person gave you a load of bull****. And yes i did take offence to that comment that ntl is BS.
If this is the way this site is going allowing members who want to help be called BS'S then please remove my member ship forwith i dont want to be involved with it.
Then if you think we all come out with BS then dont bother phoning me when you have a problem again phone 151 like everyone else. i dont want you to come on here and say i or any other ntl person gave you a load of bull****. And yes i did take offence to that comment that ntl is BS.
If this is the way this site is going allowing members who want to help be called BS'S then please remove my member ship forwith i dont want to be involved with it.
Where did he say your name? I would assume he meant ntl, the company BS, not individual ntl employees.
Where did he say your name? I would assume he meant ntl, the company BS, not individual ntl employees.
Look he may not have given my name but its the way it is said that he cannot take the word of another engineer so thats it for me please remove my login and all details i will not be logging in here again.
Look he may not have given my name but its the way it is said that he cannot take the word of another engineer so thats it for me please remove my login and all details i will not be logging in here again.
So one person does not agree with everything an engineer says and you take the hump? You can just choose to ignore him and carry on and do what you do best and help people that do appreciate it. Reconsider? :)
Still think we have more users up here they switch em on they fall over in the first few days .
Wheres justanothernoob to explain why, he ranted about how good they are.
(must remember take everything he says and NTL BS)
With comments like this it's no wonder he and all the other NTL people have left here, or are leaving fast. I hope you are proud of the fact that you manage to drive such helpful people away from the site - I'm sure all the other users with Network/UBR/etc problems that are no longer looked into are really grateful. :mad:
Stuartbe
09-03-2004, 20:32
I think its sad that NTL people leave and Pem does have a point.......
NTL bods.... I can see why you get fed up with the moaning... You have to remember that the people who come to site usualy have a problem and have been p$ssed of by NTL. I am sure that the moaning is not aimed at you personaly...
Cant we all be freinds ? Life is to short to scrap like schoolboys IMO......
Bill C..... I can asure you that 99% of the memberts here are truly greatfull for your help and asistance.
Justanothernoob.... Come back m8 :)
Orangebird... Thanks for all the help you have given..
To the other NTL bods.... Thankyou from me at least - I hope you decide to stay !
For gods sake - why cant we all help each other ?????????????????
Stop the NTL staff bashing NOW !!!!!..... Yes NTL are naff.. I know I have experienced it first hand but the customer service culture is the management's fault not the staff !!!!
Lets stop this NOW before we loose all the helpfull NTL guys and girls !!!
P L E A S E ! ! ! !
well its not fixed because you still using a proxy, I want to make one thing clear here I do NOT want to be using a proxy to access web pages, it was working fine for months so I can see no good reason why ntl need me to be using proxies now.
The "fixed" to which I was referring was the fact that you would be using one cache exclusively if you define it manually. That means that your traffic isn't load-balanced optimally (for either you or ntl) across the cache farm or protected against a cache being unavailable.
Of course that's of little interest to you if you are having problems ;) . All I can suggest is that you continue to log any issues with ntl with as much detail as possible.
I'm guessing that is basis of your objection to using proxies - the flipside of course being that they usually allow ISPs to scale internet services whilst minimising costs.:)
To the other NTL bods.... Thankyou from me at least - I hope you decide to stay !
I'm thicker skinned than most, besides I enjoy more than just the ntl based forums. So I'll be staying.
Bill C is often rung up by th'eng and has bent over backwards to help (he's a *very* conscientious chap) even when there turns out not to have been a serious problem. Thus you can see why he would see eng's comments as being a slap in the face, and I can understand his attitude.
However, I think th'eng actually had one of his grammar free moments and it's difficult to be certain what he was saying (that n00b was BSing, that ntl always BS you, that ntl posters on nthw BS you? I'm not certain I can be sure *what* he meant, to be honest).
Incidentally, I've met (not in person) both Bill and n00b through this forum and its predecessor. I met Peter M in person after getting to know him online too, IIRC.
Stuartbe
09-03-2004, 22:16
I'm thicker skinned than most, besides I enjoy more than just the ntl based forums. So I'll be staying.
Bill C is often rung up by th'eng and has bent over backwards to help (he's a *very* conscientious chap) even when there turns out not to have been a serious problem. Thus you can see why he would see eng's comments as being a slap in the face, and I can understand his attitude.
However, I think th'eng actually had one of his grammar free moments and it's difficult to be certain what he was saying (that n00b was BSing, that ntl always BS you, that ntl posters on nthw BS you? I'm not certain I can be sure *what* he meant, to be honest).
Incidentally, I've met (not in person) both Bill and n00b through this forum and its predecessor. I met Peter M in person after getting to know him online too, IIRC.
I can understand your point m8....
I am glad you are going to stay... You are most welcome.... I will have to msn justanothernoob and ask him of he will come back... Its a sad loss.
This site needs you guys !!!
Forum members - dont forget that these guys are risking getting in trouble with there managers - I am sure mr (I dont give a t0ss about my customers) husian would not like them being here...
Lets support them.. thats what I say... And I am no NTL lover I can tell you !!!!
th'engineer
09-03-2004, 22:38
I am fed up of all this bickering like most customers want it working, not falling over.
It was not meant to be a dig at Bill C or BBKing who i have great respect for, its aimed at certain forum members who jump in on threads critising customers about proxies and other things implying NTL are perfect .
I would have thought the reference to only one particular person in the thread would have explained that.
We all have to act like adults both customers and Engineers and sort out the problems not bicker between ourselves.
Stuartbe
09-03-2004, 22:42
I am fed up of all this bickering like most customers want it working, not falling over.
It was not meant to be a dig at Bill C or BBKing who i have great respect for, its aimed at certain forum members who jump in on threads critising customers about proxies and other things implying NTL are perfect .
I agree - there service is carp and they dont give a hoot about there customers - BUT we must be carefull not to take it out on the NTL forum members... Its not there fault after all - they have a loyalty to the compant they work for and that is a good thing IMHO. It makes them want to help more...
Perhaps its time for the mod team to set up a petition that we could send to the management !!!
th'engineer
09-03-2004, 22:50
Great improvement these proxies:rolleyes:
Traceroute www.ntlworld.com (62.253.162.30) HopIP AddressHostnameAverage RTT11192.168.1.8baal.pair.net0.37 ms2144.232.248.125sl-gw9-rly-6-0.sprintlink.net5.90 ms3144.232.14.37sl-bb23-rly-3-0.sprintlink.net6.21 ms4144.232.14.133sl-bb21-rly-9-0.sprintlink.net6.22 ms5144.232.20.123sl-bb20-tuk-0-0.sprintlink.net12.45 ms6144.232.20.133sl-bb21-tuk-15-0.sprintlink.net12.57 ms7144.232.19.70sl-bb21-lon-14-0.sprintlink.net81.75 ms8213.206.128.59sl-gw11-lon-15-0.sprintlink.net80.20 ms9213.206.159.246sle-ntl-2-0.sprintlink.net90.72 ms1062.253.185.138win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com94.18 ms1162.253.187.222win-dc-a-v902.inet.ntl.com98.62 ms12Time-out13Time-out14Time-out15Destination host unreachable
Eng - repeat two hundred times - I Must Not Confuse ICMP Echo Packets With TCP Packets On Port 80.
Then repeat two thousand times - Not All Hosts On The Internet Implement RFC 1122 Correctly.
RFC 1122, page 42:
Every host MUST implement an ICMP Echo server function that receives Echo Requests and sends corresponding Echo Replies.
A host SHOULD also implement an application-layer interface for sending an Echo Request and receiving an Echo Reply, for diagnostic purposes.
I am fed up of all this bickering like most customers want it working, not falling over.
snip
We all have to act like adults both customers and Engineers and sort out the problems not bicker between ourselves.
Well i picked a right week to give up smoking so yes i am a bit touchy at the moment, But you started the bickering by having a go at someone that is trying to help 10 out of 10 on the good moves table if you ask me.
lets give the poeple that control the systems the chance to check them and fix them if it needs that but having a go at those poeple will not help.
Just my feelings on the subject :)
Then repeat two thousand times - Not All Hosts On The Internet Implement RFC 1122 Correctly.It's not so much that, it's that recent virus outbreaks e.g. the W32.Welchia.Worm, have used ICMP to check for potential hosts to infect, and because of the increased traffic many web hosters and service providers have either turned off ICMP or else drop the packets at any hint of any Denial of Service attacks.
Therefore traceroute and ping are just not reliable indicators of network connectivity.
So there's no substitute for looking at network traces to see exactly what's going on.
Some free tools are www.ethereal.com (http://www.ethereal.com/) or its relation http://www.networkchemistry.com/products/packetyzer/
Chrysalis
10-03-2004, 00:29
any comments made by me are aimed at ntl as a company and I appreciate ntl staff been here helping out users.
thought I would just say that.
It's not so much that, it's that recent virus outbreaks e.g. the W32.Welchia.Worm, have used ICMP to check for potential hosts to infect, and because of the increased traffic many web hosters and service providers have either turned off ICMP or else drop the packets at any hint of any Denial of Service attacks.
Therefore traceroute and ping are just not reliable indicators of network connectivity.
So there's no substitute for looking at network traces to see exactly what's going on.
Some free tools are www.ethereal.com (http://www.ethereal.com/) or its relation http://www.networkchemistry.com/products/packetyzer/
All my servers block ICMP unless it comes from specific IP's (which obviously belong to support staff). So we can ping them and trace to them, but joe public cannot. This is not uncommon these days.
Most people tend to confuse pings and tracerts with web traffic (and tcp/udp traffic in general) - I would love a pound for everyone who posts a tracert when they are having http/https problems. It is an easy mistake to make (the same problem happens with gamers, who post ICMP pings when their games use UDP or TCP). :)
th'engineer
10-03-2004, 14:17
Its allright Me and Bill are still speaking.
Chrysalis
10-03-2004, 16:01
hmm I had problems downloading a small file from a site, the file changes every few hours and it turned out because this proxy wasnt keeping it up to date, will ring up ntl again later as they have yet to get back to me on either of my complaints and my billing date is tommorow.
Chrysalis
10-03-2004, 19:10
the site in question is to do with firefox, it is a development site for firefox extensions and new extensions get uploaded daily sometimes every few hours and this proxy is causing me all sorts of problems at the moment :(
I am wondering if its possible to setup a a straight pass thru proxy on a linux box that doesnt actually cache page, but allowing me to bypass ntl's proxies, you think this is possible?
come across this
http://www.squid-cache.org/
only problem is I will be setting it up on a us box, wether this makes things faster and better for me than ntl's local server's I dont know.
the site in question is to do with firefox, it is a development site for firefox extensions and new extensions get uploaded daily sometimes every few hours and this proxy is causing me all sorts of problems at the moment :(
I am wondering if its possible to setup a a straight pass thru proxy on a linux box that doesnt actually cache page, but allowing me to bypass ntl's proxies, you think this is possible?
I think this has been covered elsewhere in this forum, but the short answer is no, you cannot bypass the upstream proxies by using your own. This is because your proxy will use port 80 (like any browser) to talk to web sites and so it will get redirected as well.
Regarding your problematic site, is it possible to do Ctrl-Refresh (for IE) as shown in Robin Walker's cablemodem help pages?
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/trancache.html#refreshstale
Also you could enter your problematic web page into the Cacheability Engine to see if it's actually cacheable.
http://www.web-caching.com/cacheability.html
The HTTP headers that are usually used to gauge content freshness are:
Expires, Cache-Control, Last-Modified
If the headers indicate that the content is old, then it won't get its freshness verified as often as new content.
Chrysalis
10-03-2004, 21:21
I am not planning on using port 80 for my proxy I am aware port 80 wont bypass but I got the impression that using a different port does bypass ntl.
I am not planning on using port 80 for my proxy I am aware port 80 wont bypass but I got the impression that using a different port does bypass ntl.
There are two different ports - the http proxy port (which is commonly set to 3128 or 8080) which is used for inbound traffic (from your browser) and the outbound http port (which is used to fetch content from web servers on port 80).
Changing the inbound proxy port won't make any difference to the fact that outbound http traffic on port 80 will get redirected.
You can configure your proxy to use a parent proxy on say port 8080 if you want to bypass the redirection process if that is broken, but you will still be using an upstream proxy.
The only real way to completely bypass proxies is to encapsulate your web traffic via an application web tunneling gateway on the internet somewhere. But that in itself can caus all sorts of performance problems with packet fragmentation etc. and you need a server on the internet.
http://www.htthost.com/ may be one.
Foo Fighter
10-03-2004, 23:19
Couldn't get to microsoft.com earlier, guessing its ntls proxies rather then ms falling over
Turn them off they are crap!
Chrysalis
11-03-2004, 01:00
grrrrrr
f***in ntl why dont they just turn these proxies off, no users like them and use traffic shaping instead if they that desperate for bandwidth.
Have either of you actually reported a fault to TS ?
th'engineer
11-03-2004, 11:03
Couldn't get to microsoft.com earlier, guessing its ntls proxies rather then ms falling over
Turn them off they are crap!I know that our friends at NTL are looking at this, for some reason they appear to have problems with proxies in the North West.
If you are having problems you also need to let NTL know by phoning Customer Services and telling them the problems.
You need to do this! Anyone in the North West that has problems with proxies get on that phone.
NTL can not do anything if they do not know about the problem remember this site is independant and not owned by NTL
threadbare
11-03-2004, 11:33
grrrrrr
f***in ntl why dont they just turn these proxies off, no users like them and use traffic shaping instead if they that desperate for bandwidth.because it saves them money!
th'engineer
11-03-2004, 11:59
because it saves them money!
and it allegedly improves the users experience:D
Chrysalis
11-03-2004, 19:46
traffic shaping achieves the same thing as far as I am aware it should be no more expensive then using these proxies.
Pem well I have rang them up and reported that I want my proxy disabled as it is wrecking my internet experience, but they only said they will pass it on and thats all I got so far.
threadbare
11-03-2004, 22:25
traffic shaping achieves the same thing as far as I am aware it should be no more expensive then using these proxies.
Pem well I have rang them up and reported that I want my proxy disabled as it is wrecking my internet experience, but they only said they will pass it on and thats all I got so far.
traffic shaping queues traffic intelligently. this will not save external bandwidth which is the whole point of the proxies. internal (core) bandwith is plentiful - hence using proxies
threadbare
11-03-2004, 22:26
traffic shaping achieves the same thing as far as I am aware it should be no more expensive then using these proxies.
Pem well I have rang them up and reported that I want my proxy disabled as it is wrecking my internet experience, but they only said they will pass it on and thats all I got so far.that aint gonna happen unless they get loads of ppl calling up about browsing speeds
Chrysalis
11-03-2004, 22:43
traffic shaping queues traffic intelligently. this will not save external bandwidth which is the whole point of the proxies. internal (core) bandwith is plentiful - hence using proxies
Isn't the idea tho when you maxing out your bandwidth is just to ensure the right things still have good performance, sounds like ntl are deliberatly not utilising all of their external bandwidth, which is different to what I would want them to do to solve the problem, fact is proxies reduce performance and cause problems on frequently updated sites, it can also cause problems where ip addresses are used to allow/dissallow access, ntl shouldnt be forcing these on users without their permission.
Bill C is often rung up by th'eng and has bent over backwards to help (he's a *very* conscientious chap) even when there turns out not to have been a serious problem. Thus you can see why he would see eng's comments as being a slap in the face, and I can understand his attitude.
I'll agree with the above statement about Bill C. He was a great help to myself when I was having problems on .com. Be a shame to see him leave :(
th'engineer
11-03-2004, 23:37
I'll agree with the above statement about Bill C. He was a great help to myself when I was having problems on .com. Be a shame to see him leave :(
Its ok bill is still with us we have burried the hatchet ouch:D
Its ok bill is still with us we have burried the hatchet ouch:D
Did not feel a thing :pp
threadbare
12-03-2004, 00:55
Isn't the idea tho when you maxing out your bandwidth is just to ensure the right things still have good performance, sounds like ntl are deliberatly not utilising all of their external bandwidth, which is different to what I would want them to do to solve the problem, fact is proxies reduce performance and cause problems on frequently updated sites, it can also cause problems where ip addresses are used to allow/dissallow access, ntl shouldnt be forcing these on users without their permission.thats the point - the bandwidth is not the issue. the problem is usually with load balancing of proxy servers (along with other things), which is not helped by ppl specifying an explicit proxy and WCCP routers which determine which proxies cache which page etc.
"they dont utilise their external bandwidth" beacuse the more we use the external bandwidth the more it costs them! if you want all the proxies turned off then you may find BB prices will go up or a pay per bandwidth billing is introduced, (maybe not a bad idea for those who want proxy-less web browsing)
its not a case of ntl forcing this on users without their permission - they are the ISP and they have always used proxies. if they are turned off then that is a maintainence issue. frankly ntl can and will force users to use proxies as long as it is a cost effective option for them. in other word they will do as they please.
Chrysalis
12-03-2004, 02:24
what? so my proxies were turned of for more than half a year because of maintenance?
I find that very hard to believe I think its more likely someone in upper management made a decision and they were turned on, higher costs if turned off?
so 34.99 1 mbit/1 gig a day traffic/proxy on-ntl
What proxies are you using ? - I thought Leicester NTL customers routed via Nottingham, and they have always been operational on the Nottingham core.
Chrysalis
12-03-2004, 16:48
I think it is nottingham proxies I am using but not fully sure.
IP is 62.254.0.38
I think it is nottingham proxies I am using but not fully sure. IP is 62.254.0.38
Yep, that's one of the Nottingham ones - but they have not been turned off for months :confused:
threadbare
12-03-2004, 17:41
what? so my proxies were turned of for more than half a year because of maintenance?
I find that very hard to believe I think its more likely someone in upper management made a decision and they were turned on, higher costs if turned off?
so 34.99 1 mbit/1 gig a day traffic/proxy on-ntlno they were turned off because they needed maintenance but there were other more critical jobs that needed doing first - ntl cant fix everything at the same time they need to allocate resources. so if something isn't vital (like proxies) then why not switch them off and fix something that needs to be fixed?
Chrysalis
12-03-2004, 19:43
hey im not complaining they were turned off :)
its the fact they were turned on :(
ntl customer
12-03-2004, 20:07
its not a case of ntl forcing this on users without their permission - they are the ISP and they have always used proxies. if they are turned off then that is a maintainence issue. frankly ntl can and will force users to use proxies as long as it is a cost effective option for them. in other word they will do as they please.
If you do not think ntl force them on their users, then why do we not have the options to turn them off as we please unlike other companies who allow users to choose whether they use proxies or not.
Even Telewest AFAIK who used to have forced proxies have turned them off and allowed users the choice as to whether they want to use them or not.
"they dont utilise their external bandwidth" beacuse the more we use the external bandwidth the more it costs them! if you want all the proxies turned off then you may find BB prices will go up or a pay per bandwidth billing is introduced, (maybe not a bad idea for those who want proxy-less web browsing)
Why does it cost more for ntl? Other ISP's are capable of offering proxyless capless connections for pretty much the same price as the ntl offering, give or take a few quid, so why can't ntl?
threadbare
12-03-2004, 20:18
If you do not think ntl force them on their users, then why do we not have the options to turn them off as we please unlike other companies who allow users to choose whether they use proxies or not.
Even Telewest AFAIK who used to have forced proxies have turned them off and allowed users the choice as to whether they want to use them or not.
Why does it cost more for ntl? Other ISP's are capable of offering proxyless capless connections for pretty much the same price as the ntl offering, give or take a few quid, so why can't ntl?it doesn't cost ntl anymore than another ISP of a similar size. what i am saying is they have to pay for the exta bandwidth used when proxies are not in use.
I would like the option not to use proxies. they are excellent for dial up connections and quite good for caching regularly used websites. I wouldn't mind if they were more reliable - although i have had few problems in the swansea area when they are on (they were off for some time last year)
Foo Fighter
12-03-2004, 20:55
Is something really wrong with these proxies tonight?
mosts sites are timing out, i can make it to the web page now and again but trying to get into forums is hit and miss.
dunno if these tracerts bypass the proxies?
Tracing route to nthellworld.co.uk [69.72.137.99]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 14 ms 11 ms 12 ms 10.109.0.1
2 15 ms 23 ms 19 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan34-104.inet.ntl.com [80.5.16
4.145]
3 13 ms 14 ms 30 ms mant-t2core-b-ge-wan62.inet.ntl.com [213.104.242
.169]
4 12 ms 26 ms 19 ms man-bb-b-so-210-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.61]
5 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
6 20 ms 18 ms 18 ms gfd-bb-b-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.130]
7 21 ms 21 ms 27 ms tele-ic-2-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.74]
8 23 ms 22 ms 20 ms linx.ge-0-0-0.gbr1.ltn.nac.net [195.66.224.94]
9 91 ms 98 ms 90 ms 0.so-0-3-0.gbr2.nwr.nac.net [209.123.11.209]
10 122 ms 132 ms * 0.so-0-3-0.gbr1.oct.nac.net [209.123.11.233]
11 96 ms 96 ms 105 ms 209.123.182.243
12 98 ms 88 ms 90 ms 69.57.170.3
13 * * * Request timed out.
14 * * * Request timed out.
15 * * * Request timed out.
16 * * * Request timed out.
17 * * * Request timed out.
18 * * * Request timed out.
19 * * * Request timed out.
20 * * * Request timed out.
21 * * * Request timed out.
22 * * * Request timed out.
23 * * * Request timed out.
24 ^C
Tracing route to www.thedvdforums.com [216.93.162.3]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 11 ms 11 ms 13 ms 10.109.0.1
2 13 ms 12 ms 14 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan34-104.inet.ntl.com [80.5.16
4.145]
3 14 ms 17 ms 12 ms mant-t2core-b-ge-wan62.inet.ntl.com [213.104.242
.169]
4 15 ms 18 ms 13 ms man-bb-b-so-210-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.61]
5 18 ms 19 ms 19 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
6 27 ms 20 ms 19 ms gfd-bb-b-so-500-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.130]
7 22 ms 20 ms 28 ms gfd-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.5]
8 19 ms 21 ms 31 ms tele-ic-1-so-100-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.78]
9 95 ms 95 ms 96 ms lndnuk1icx1.wcg.net [195.66.224.105]
10 97 ms 96 ms 97 ms nycmny2wcx2-oc12.wcg.net [64.200.87.153]
11 95 ms 99 ms 95 ms nycmny2wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.87.78]
12 127 ms 118 ms 120 ms chcgil1wcx3-oc48.wcg.net [64.200.240.37]
13 118 ms 117 ms 117 ms brvwil1wcx2-pos11-0-1-a0.wcg.net [64.200.236.17]
14 144 ms 144 ms 144 ms dnvrco1wcx2-pos14-0.wcg.net [64.200.210.22]
15 168 ms 168 ms 170 ms snfcca1wcx3-pos11-0.wcg.net [64.200.240.94]
16 168 ms 167 ms 167 ms sntcca1lch2-pos4-1.wcg.net [64.200.240.222]
17 181 ms * 169 ms sntcca2lce2-yipes-gige.wcg.net [64.200.150.78]
18 162 ms 164 ms * border1-ge0-0-0.sfo.servepath.net [209.213.192.1
23]
19 159 ms 178 ms 158 ms access1-ge2-0-5.sfo.servepath.net [216.93.189.11
4]
20 170 ms 158 ms 156 ms customer-reverse-entry.216.93.162.3 [216.93.162.
3]
Trace complete.
Strangely enough, one place I cannot reach tonight is Ntl Broadband Plus pages, the don't even time out, just instantly unavailable. I suppose I should be thankful that I am 3 months free trial, I would be miffed if I was paying the extra charge.
<Realists hat on>
Well if what I read a few posts back from BBKing is correct, ie NTL have added 6 more caches to the Manchester area, the chances that NTL are going to turn them off after such an investment is slim to none IMO. Us moaning about it is going to do nothing for the situation.
</Realists hat off>
I suggest we try to work with NTL (BBKing/BillC?) to work out the kinks. Granted not ideal but if we need to live with the proxies then lets at least get them working correctly :)
They say we should report the faults but where/how? If it's an 0845 number then no way will I participate as I am not paying for the priveledge of debugging NTL's system.
Can they arrange an alternate reporting method?
What Info do they want/need?
threadbare
12-03-2004, 23:47
Is something really wrong with these proxies tonight?
mosts sites are timing out, i can make it to the web page now and again but trying to get into forums is hit and miss.
dunno if these tracerts bypass the proxies?unfortunately tracert wont say much - as you correctly say they are not intercepted by the proxies as they run on a different port
Thanks DVS for a thoughtful post. Unfortunately I work in a completely different part of ntl (home rather than networks) so my room for manoevre is limited. Hence me asking people to ring in and report problems, since if I mention that I think the caches are misbehaving and there are no reported browsing issues in the area, I look stupid, whereas if I mention it and it completes a picture that's beginning to emerge, it speeds up the diagnosis. Bill C, if th'eng hasn't completely peed him off, I think works in networks, but nowhere near the cache people. He does have his ear firmly to the ground in the NW though.
I don't know which number to ring, either, but it may indeed be the 0845 number, if you want to get through to Swansea. Would appreciate confirmation of this.
Florence
13-03-2004, 12:01
I did contact about the proxies the other week. I must say this week theyare behaving so no more problems for a while.. Will call if they happen again
What Info do they want/need?
I'm guessing that all they'd need is:
- your location
- your ip address
- the URL you are having problems with
- whether the URL works with a manually-specified proxy (aka one of:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.d.h.walker/cmtips/trancache.html#ntl)
That should be enough to show which redirector and proxy you're using.
Is something really wrong with these proxies tonight?
mosts sites are timing out, i can make it to the web page now and again but trying to get into forums is hit and miss.
dunno if these tracerts bypass the proxies?
Ping's and tracert's have very little in common with web browsing.
Web browsing uses a protocol called HTTP which is then transmitted using an IP protocol called TCP, this in turn uses a concept of "ports" and HTTP uses TCP Port 80. NTL's routers re-direct tcp80 to their proxy servers.
Ping and tracert use another IP protocol called ICMP - this does not have the concept of ports, nor is it intercepted by NTL - however it is often blocked by far end servers (hence timeouts).
Routers that respond to ping requests often only do so when they have nothing better to do - so they are not reliable measure of how well they are performing.
Maybe I should post a simple networking explanation as well - I'll see if I have time tonight.
Chrysalis
13-03-2004, 15:31
Thanks DVS for a thoughtful post. Unfortunately I work in a completely different part of ntl (home rather than networks) so my room for manoevre is limited. Hence me asking people to ring in and report problems, since if I mention that I think the caches are misbehaving and there are no reported browsing issues in the area, I look stupid, whereas if I mention it and it completes a picture that's beginning to emerge, it speeds up the diagnosis. Bill C, if th'eng hasn't completely peed him off, I think works in networks, but nowhere near the cache people. He does have his ear firmly to the ground in the NW though.
I don't know which number to ring, either, but it may indeed be the 0845 number, if you want to get through to Swansea. Would appreciate confirmation of this.
the problem is 90% of webpages will work, just a lot slower.
As far as the average user is concerned this is not a problem so he/she will not ring up, a lot of user's may have only ever used ntl with the proxies on so they dont even have a experience of what it should be like.
Hence the lack of phone calls.
th'engineer
14-03-2004, 08:46
just a message relating since the proxies have been switched on it might not be related but here goes.
Since the proxies have been turned on having more disconnects from the interenet lease not renewing.
I know this is not normally related SNR & return path are ok .
Its lease renew related .
Any advice appreciated or could it be related
Having to reboot STB to get lease
Can you document this, Steve, gimme times/dates of when you're unable to get a connection. It won't be proxy related.
Can you document this, Steve, gimme times/dates of when you're unable to get a connection. It won't be proxy related.
And i will contact the Network lads for that area to see if there has been any other's reporting this. :)
th'engineer
14-03-2004, 12:58
And i will contact the Network lads for that area to see if there has been any other's reporting this. :)
Thanks guys its appreciated will up date you BB if you check the log remotely will give you times
th'engineer
14-03-2004, 18:51
in addition to above can you tell me why pages are taking ages to load here any help appreciated
Foo Fighter
14-03-2004, 21:24
in addition to above can you tell me why pages are taking ages to load here any help appreciated
was happening me the other night, web pages took ages to load and most just gave up... but no else had a problem... mines fine now but browsing is much slower since they turned these proxies on
Florence
14-03-2004, 23:40
Manchester proxies must have fell over tonight. I can't blame the modem or settings as none had been changed I was in MIRC using MSN and websites working on college course when I asked for another page I got the message Error this page cannot be displayed check you are connected to the internet and the proxy IP was in brackets
I could still talk on MIRC and MSN but couldn't surf any website rebooted the PC and still unable to surf websitesyes MSN logged in and worked MIRC also logged in and worked, as quick as they died they worked was around 30mins downtime but why should we have them if they are not reliable and slow us down.
th'engineer
15-03-2004, 07:00
I think that considering the interenet experience at the moment, NTL need to fixthe fault up here in the North West
I think that considering the interenet experience at the moment, NTL need to fixthe fault up here in the North West
Ok i have checked with faults and the network guys. Total faults for middleton for the weekend was 3 all sacm related.
I think that considering the interenet experience at the moment, NTL need to fixthe fault up here in the North West
Did you ring ntl, & tell them that you were experiencing problems?
th'engineer
15-03-2004, 13:47
I have decided that the proxy problem in the North West will only be fixed when it is actually costing NTL money in lost customers or high calls to the call centre.
The one thing about this site is that people try to help NTL but no one listens
I have decided that the proxy problem in the North West will only be fixed when it is actually costing NTL money in lost customers or high calls to the call centre.
The one thing about this site is that people try to help NTL but no one listens
IF and i repeat IF there is a fault we need customers to phone in. How can we fix something if we dont have the info. This is not a NTL run site so is not the best way to raise a fault. You have to report them to NTL . :erm:. How can you say "people try to help NTL but no one listens" if you dont report the fault". :shocked:
Florence
15-03-2004, 16:23
I was going to call mine in but it was too late to call and was back within 30 mins but was down again early this morning acording to my daughter. Yet when I checked it was back up can't NTL set up an answermachine so when faults is closed we can log the problem that way they will have been alerted to the problem. If I call now they are only going to say it's working now call when its not..
You are caught between the devil and a hard place.....
I was going to call mine in but it was too late to call and was back within 30 mins but was down again early this morning acording to my daughter. Yet when I checked it was back up can't NTL set up an answermachine so when faults is closed we can log the problem that way they will have been alerted to the problem. If I call now they are only going to say it's working now call when its not..
You are caught between the devil and a hard place.....
Too true Kitty:). But i know some users are not reporting they have a fault, Then make very bold statments that we are not helping. Whats a guy to do :rolleyes:
th'engineer
16-03-2004, 06:19
Did some testing last night and if you do the proxy dance and specify the proxies. Instead of expecting the NTL load sensing software to work it works, am now getting a good connection have tried most proxies round the country last night.
Found one thats working so can keep changing it if needed, use Robins list.
I know it masks the problem but unless you spend hours on the phone to CS its a work round
Did some testing last night and if you do the proxy dance and specify the proxies. Instead of expecting the NTL load sensing software to work it works, am now getting a good connection have tried most proxies round the country last night.
Found one thats working so can keep changing it if needed, use Robins list.
I know it masks the problem but unless you spend hours on the phone to CS its a work round
A) You don't need to ring CS, you need to ring Tech Support. :angel:
B) By the time you had done the above, & made your posts, you could probably have spoken to TS. ;)
th'engineer
16-03-2004, 13:44
A) You don't need to ring CS, you need to ring Tech Support. :angel:
B) By the time you had done the above, & made your posts, you could probably have spoken to TS. ;)
I have spoken to TS at length they say that they cant do anything about it,i did the right think specifying another proxy.
Its all part of the NTL experience for the BB customer :Yikes: improving his BB experience :rofl: :rofl:
Chrysalis
16-03-2004, 18:17
yeah no point at all ringing NTL, simply because I and them see the fix as 2 different things, my fix is to disable the transperent proxies and make a proxy server available for customers to use should they choose to do so. Their fix is simply optimising the proxies which doesnt fix my problem.
I have spoken to TS at length they say that they cant do anything about it
Rubbish-they may not be able to do anything about it there & then, but they can pass the details of the dept than can do something about it.
i did the right think specifying another proxy.
Right for how long?
Its all part of the NTL experience for the BB customer :Yikes: improving his BB experience :rofl: :rofl:
Is it improving then?
How can it improve when Tech Support tell you there's nothing they can do?
th'engineer
17-03-2004, 21:51
The more people that ring TS the more chance of the problems being sorted agree with NEIL
I had some of the the problems posted here, ie, to many downloads for my IP and Sites Instantly gone that used to work.
My first call was taken by a very helpful woman. She even referred to a second senior, and despite all attempts (reset modem, PC, try proxies etc) nothing worked. Perhaps that senior should have told her the root cause in the first place and saved a lot of time and money wasted. I finally resolved to completely reinstall as I was told there was nothing else to try.
As you expect, nothing had changed, so i called them back and a chap answered, who said the proxy was probably down for repair and was now active. Some questions were passed and his final thoughts were, that i either had to like it or lump it! Or, i could allways change ISP. Are NTL so well off they can afford to give people this choice?
Anyway, I did a search and found the threads here related to my problem. (Thanks guys!) I set a manual proxy on port 8080 and all is now well.
I see from this thread that such things are not the answer. Well, NTL's round the houses approach to my problem cost me a fair sum. Plus, I got cable because I do some software reviews and need to get large files. The proxy stopped that access and I am not paying for a service that prevents me from doing what I signed up for in the first place.
The "helpline" was a complete waste of time, and the second call, quite offensive.
My final thought... Why didn't they mass mail? They have no problem doing that when the time comes to take your money.
th'engineer
18-03-2004, 06:23
I had some of the the problems posted here, ie, to many downloads for my IP and Sites Instantly gone that used to work.
My first call was taken by a very helpful woman. She even referred to a second senior, and despite all attempts (reset modem, PC, try proxies etc) nothing worked. Perhaps that senior should have told her the root cause in the first place and saved a lot of time and money wasted. I finally resolved to completely reinstall as I was told there was nothing else to try.
As you expect, nothing had changed, so i called them back and a chap answered, who said the proxy was probably down for repair and was now active. Some questions were passed and his final thoughts were, that i either had to like it or lump it! Or, i could allways change ISP. Are NTL so well off they can afford to give people this choice?
Anyway, I did a search and found the threads here related to my problem. (Thanks guys!) I set a manual proxy on port 8080 and all is now well.
I see from this thread that such things are not the answer. Well, NTL's round the houses approach to my problem cost me a fair sum. Plus, I got cable because I do some software reviews and need to get large files. The proxy stopped that access and I am not paying for a service that prevents me from doing what I signed up for in the first place.
The "helpline" was a complete waste of time, and the second call, quite offensive.
My final thought... Why didn't they mass mail? They have no problem doing that when the time comes to take your money.
data welcome to Nthellworld.co.uk here (http://www.nthellworld.co.uk/?page=info) are some high level contacts in NTL, if you note the North west one might be worth a call. If anyone is having similar problems please use the info
th'engineer
19-03-2004, 16:06
please post in this thread if you are having problems in the NW
A little bird has told me that the Manchester proxies have again been turned off...:rolleyes:
How's everybody's browsing now?
th'engineer
20-03-2004, 09:47
A little bird has told me that the Manchester proxies have again been turned off...:rolleyes:
How's everybody's browsing now?
Mines OK now and you are right its proxy free, no proxy found by all net tools.
Mine showing as no proxy as well.
downquark1
20-03-2004, 10:42
Yeah no more proxy!
Chrysalis
20-03-2004, 14:21
if you was anything to do with it can't you get nottingham/leicester proxies turned of again neil :P
Florence
20-03-2004, 14:47
I am still showing as using proxy yet I keep getting emails saying I have had a dos attack from my proxy...
if you was anything to do with it can't you get nottingham/leicester proxies turned of again neil :P
The Nottingham ones are very stable and rarely get turned off.
Chrysalis
20-03-2004, 17:13
pem mine were off for over half a year, so they were off, also they are not stable atm
poor speeds (sub 30k/sec on many sites on my 1mbit connection)
out of date pages on frequently updated sites
some pages dont even load
all fixed when on my personal proxy server
pem mine were off for over half a year, so they were off, also they are not stable atm
poor speeds (sub 30k/sec on many sites on my 1mbit connection)
out of date pages on frequently updated sites
some pages dont even load
all fixed when on my personal proxy server
Out of interest - what NTL proxy does this page (http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp) show for you (when not using your own) ?
Out of interest - what NTL proxy does this page (http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp) show for you (when not using your own) ?AllNetools shows no proxy, but that link appears to show one?
Also, the window in the sig on the post by Chrysalis is showing 62.252.192.12 which is not my IP.
Can anyone get the National Lottery site up? http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/
Stuartbe
20-03-2004, 18:54
Can anyone get the National Lottery site up? http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/
Comes up for me... All be it very very slowly :(
Can anyone get the National Lottery site up? http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/
Tried via that link, got fed up of waiting after several minutes. Did a quick Ctrl + F5 and it loaded instantly.
Florence
20-03-2004, 19:03
Can anyone get the National Lottery site up? http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/
I managed to get it up but it took 4 mins on a 1 mb service... has to be the proxies...........
Can anyone get the National Lottery site up? http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/
It's always really really slow this time on a Saturday night with the likes of me who's forgotten to put the lottery on :rolleyes:
AllNetools shows no proxy, but that link appears to show one?
Also, the window in the sig on the post by Chrysalis is showing 62.252.192.12 which is not my IP.
AllnetTools is faulty then, that is the IP of Manchester Cache 9 :)
Thank's Guys, trust me to leave it while the last minute. Look's like it could be the proxy i just tried specifying a proxy and it come up straight away.
AllNetools shows no proxy, but that link appears to show one?
Also, the window in the sig on the post by Chrysalis is showing 62.252.192.12 which is not my IP.
The same thing is happening to me, Allnetools show no proxy, but that link shows the 62.252.192.12 address :shrug:
They are not fully turned off though in Manchester, I appear to be going through a transparant proxy. But I am not having the problems the other guys have reported within this thread.
Florence
20-03-2004, 20:09
They are not fully turned off though in Manchester, I appear to be going through a transparant proxy. But I am not having the problems the other guys have reported within this thread.
Wonders why you have the best proxy care to share the IP number so we can all have a decent one then :D
As BBking said we tend not to go through or stick to one proxy. So far I have seen that I have been through cache10-mant.server.ntli.net and cache6-mant.server.ntli.net.
ntl customer
20-03-2004, 20:23
The same thing is happening to me, Allnetools show no proxy, but that link shows the 62.252.192.12 address :shrug:
Perhaps the transparent proxies have become more ... er ... transparent :D ;)
th'engineer
20-03-2004, 20:29
Perhaps the transparent proxies have become more ... er ... transparent :D ;)
heres the answer
cache9-mant.server.ntli.net (62.252.192.12)
62.252.192.0 - 62.252.223.255
NTL Internet
Manchester site
Florence
20-03-2004, 20:43
As BBking said we tend not to go through or stick to one proxy. So far I have seen that I have been through cache10-mant.server.ntli.net and cache6-mant.server.ntli.net.
Weird I have the same one I have had since I first found out I was on proxies again even have a screen shot showing the ip number which didn't change even though I have been swapping cable modems around these last few weeks..
I am also getting DOS attacks from my my proxy according to the modem as its sent me emails saying I was under attack from the ip that is cache1.. The only one I have ever been on..... :shrug:
heres the answer
cache9-mant.server.ntli.net (62.252.192.12)
62.252.192.0 - 62.252.223.255
NTL Internet
Manchester site
Erm - how is looking up the IP range for Manchester the answer to anything :confused:
I am also getting DOS attacks from my my proxy according to the modem as its sent me emails saying I was under attack from the ip that is cache1.. The only one I have ever been on..... :shrug:
Ignore them Kitty - it is just being over sensitive - I get them a few times a week - it is mis-interpreting real traffic.
Well what a revelation this thread is ;), I thought the proxies had been buried for ever, at least now I know why browsing has been hit and miss the last couple of days.
BBKing.
To help in your request for backing when you say there are problems I have just spoken to BB tech support to advise that I am having problems with intermittent outages.
Unfortunately I didn't get the guys name but 5 starts to him, very pleasant and helpful and none of the usual c**p about resetting the STB and PC.
If the top managers were forced to spend a month on front line support maybe NTL would fix things properly, or maybe they would just give up.
I feel sorry for TeleWest customers when the long standing rumours come to fruition.
Hope the proxies get fixed, or switched off again real soon.
Wonders why you have the best proxy care to share the IP number so we can all have a decent one then :D
62.252.192.12 is the only one I seem to be going through since they came back on, TBH I have had no real problems and noticed no degradation of service whatsoever.
AllNettools did show it at first but for some reason it now cannot detect it.
Florence
20-03-2004, 22:48
62.252.192.12 is the only one I seem to be going through since they came back on, TBH I have had no real problems and noticed no degradation of service whatsoever.
AllNettools did show it at first but for some reason it now cannot detect it.
AllNettools can still detect my proxy might try yours :)
th'engineer
20-03-2004, 22:48
Erm - how is looking up the IP range for Manchester the answer to anything :confused:
It shows its a cache
I think i should be upset :) I have not had any of the problems you all say your having. Why have i been left out its not fair :pp
I am on the south manchester cache here in warrington
It shows its a cache
Oh, ok, but then I had already said it was.
AllnetTools is faulty then, that is the IP of Manchester Cache 9 :)
Chrysalis
21-03-2004, 00:37
Out of interest - what NTL proxy does this page (http://romulas.zmnt.co.uk/forum/vars.asp) show for you (when not using your own) ?
REMOTE_ADDR 62.254.0.38
Chrysalis
21-03-2004, 00:38
I managed to get it up but it took 4 mins on a 1 mb service... has to be the proxies...........
LMFAO
sorry had to laugh
but seriously you dont pay for a 1mbit connection for sub 56k performance :(
REMOTE_ADDR 62.254.0.38
So you are using exactly the same as the rest of us in Nottingham & surrounding areas - and they have been stable here for the last few months - very few problems.
Chrysalis
21-03-2004, 01:07
pem you are saying these proxies have been on for last few months, this is simply not true for me, I maybe using the proxy servers in nottingham but I am not in nottingham so its quite easy my area was turned off, also I can repeat the proxy problems again and again and again. One click to turn of my proxy problem exists, another click to bypass ntl poroxy problem gone, its quite simple really one common factor in my problems and its the ntl trapserent proxy.
Tell me what you make of my report in the speedtest thread next to this, I posted the results.
Chrysalis
21-03-2004, 01:10
Tracing route to cache9-nott.server.ntli.net [62.254.0.38]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 15 ms 15 ms 19 ms 10.146.151.254
2 70 ms 19 ms 19 ms leic-t2cam1-b-ge96.inet.ntl.com [80.7.30.145]
3 20 ms 19 ms 39 ms nott-t2core-b-ge-wan63.inet.ntl.com [80.1.79.197
]
4 110 ms 128 ms 130 ms cache9-nott.server.ntli.net [62.254.0.38]
Trace complete
It would seem the problem is with your UBR/gateway - is that a Shepshed area connection? Certainly my routeing seems cleaner:
Tracing route to cache9-nott.server.ntli.net [62.254.0.38]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.2.1
2 9 ms 13 ms 9 ms 10.145.***.***
3 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms nott-t2cam1-b-ge-wan53-137.inet.ntl.com [80.4.46
.193]
4 11 ms 9 ms 10 ms nott-t2core-b-ge-wan72.inet.ntl.com [80.1.79.189
]
5 10 ms 10 ms 11 ms cache9-nott.server.ntli.net [62.254.0.38]
Trace complete.
Chrysalis
21-03-2004, 04:16
not sure what it is but it isnt my ubr, otherwise first hop would be high, I can also tracert to other locations fine with much lower pings then that, all I know is I get abysmal proxy performance on top of having problems with having to refresh pages, I keep going on about it because its annoying hearing again and again that the proxies are not to blame for people's problems.
Florence
21-03-2004, 10:20
I have just completed a tracert and will now do one a day for a week..
things working quite well today so suppose this will be a good one..
Tracing route to cache1-mant.server.ntli.net [62.252.192.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms 10.11.32.1
2 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan51-120.inet.ntl.com [80.5.16
4.209]
3 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms mant-t2core-b-ge-wan64.inet.ntl.com [213.104.242
.181]
4 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms cache1-mant.server.ntli.net [62.252.192.4]
Trace complete.
Will see how they change over a few weeks. I notice I havent been below 10ms so anyone with lower ms are on better proxies than me..
Why do I go to Oldham then back to Manchester...
Ignition
21-03-2004, 10:39
OK.
Kitty just to remind you pings are nothing at all to do with proxies they deal exclusively with web traffic not ICMP. Also if you are using Windows 2000 it tends to report sub-10ms pings as 10ms.
Oldham them Manchester? Network segmentation and best practise, spreading of load in Manchester throughout core rather than shoving everyone through the same (slightly lower spec) t2cams then to the higher spec t2cores, could be other reasons as well, distance of fibre run, arrangement of metro-net, etc.
I think some massive confusion is here people are forgetting that there are two distinct sets of cache in Manchester, Manchester Central (I think ;) ) and Manchester Transit. One has 4 caches the other has 10, and it's perfectly possible that those on manc-t2cores have transparent caching disabled while those on mant-t2cores do not, and vice-versa.
Florence
21-03-2004, 10:52
Ok you have to know manchester to realise why I asked why Oldham.. To get to Oldham via road its a long way round as there is a river between my home and the shortest route to Oldham. All the roads round me are closer to Manchester so if all NTLs cables are laid via road I am diverted miles out to come back.....
There is a large country park with river medlock flowing through the shortest road I know hasn't got NTls cables along it as a friend who lives on the farm on it can't have NTL and there are only three homes along that road in the valley..
Correct me if I am wrong but if you are sent the longest way round will that not slow down your internet connection.
Ignition
21-03-2004, 11:00
Ok you have to know manchester to realise why I asked why Oldham.. To get to Oldham via road its a long way round as there is a river between my home and the shortest route to Oldham. All the roads round me are closer to Manchester so if all NTLs cables are laid via road I am diverted miles out to come back.....
There is a large country park with river medlock flowing through the shortest road I know hasn't got NTls cables along it as a friend who lives on the farm on it can't have NTL and there are only three homes along that road in the valley..
Correct me if I am wrong but if you are sent the longest way round will that not slow down your internet connection.
At the speed of light a few miles extra doesn't make much difference :)
Not really my thing but if I have time I'll test all 14 :erm: of them Monday morning using http://www.numion.org/YourSpeed/
Please note This is not a definitive bandwidth test, my own DSL at home doesn't get anywhere near 1Mbit on this test, but on their other Maxspeed test achieves 120+k/s! before a load of people begin running this religiously and then complain cos they are only getting 3 - 400kbit/s on it :p
For a raw speed test this is much more accurate: http://www.numion.org/MaxSpeed/index.html
I think i should be upset :) I have not had any of the problems you all say your having. Why have i been left out its not fair :pp
I am on the south manchester cache here in warrington
I haven't had a great deal of probs either. Some sites haven't been responding but have when i specified a proxy, but there haven't been many. Just watch now i have said that something will happen. lol
Florence
21-03-2004, 11:03
Come on Bill C and Martin share your proxies with us so we can test them :D
Florence
21-03-2004, 11:04
At the speed of light a few miles extra doesn't make much difference :)
My son is using fedora will treacert the proxy from his pc next time see if it comes below 10ms
Ignition
21-03-2004, 11:08
My son is using fedora will treacert the proxy from his pc next time see if it comes below 10ms
The speed of light = 299,792,458 m / s
Also don't confuse latency with bandwidth, a few ms here and there won't make any difference to browsing or gaming. For gaming a steadier stable latency is much more important, for browsing a responsive and wide burst of bandwidth on demand.
I have to say I actually miss cable, web pages were pretty much universally instant - maybe I was one of the lucky ones :)
Come on Bill C and Martin share your proxies with us so we can test them :D
I just have auto detect proxy set honest :angel:
It was this last time i looked -----> cache2-bagu.server.ntli.net
You watch you all change to it and it will go slow :LOL:
th'engineer
21-03-2004, 11:33
Bill working up here allright now no problems whatsoever so am going to keep quiet.
Bill working up here allright now no problems whatsoever so am going to keep quiet.
:Yikes: Thats a first :D
Stuartbe
21-03-2004, 11:35
The speed of light = 299,792,458 m / s
Also don't confuse latency with bandwidth, a few ms here and there won't make any difference to browsing or gaming. For gaming a steadier stable latency is much more important, for browsing a responsive and wide burst of bandwidth on demand.
I have to say I actually miss cable, web pages were pretty much universally instant - maybe I was one of the lucky ones :)
JustAnotherN00b is giving sage advice... The ping times to my local proxy servers are very low but they run like slugs. The ping times to watford servers and other areas are very high but I get a faster connection from there. You cant tell the speed of the proxy from its ping times !
th'engineer
21-03-2004, 11:35
:Yikes: Thats a first :D
Honest:angel:
Florence
21-03-2004, 11:36
I just have auto detect proxy set honest :angel:
It was this last time i looked -----> cache2-bagu.server.ntli.net
You watch you all change to it and it will go slow :LOL:
:LOL: knew you would tell me next time I get timed out I am jumping ship to yours bet its no further than Oldham for me.....
Oldham - Manchester - you can't tell much about the routes of the cables from the layer 3 information you pick up from a traceroute. The fibres themselves exist at level 1 and could go anywhere - I've seen fibre distances 3x the crow flies distance, and there will be two alternative fibres anyway going two different routes. The backbone fibres are nothing to do with the cable in the ground and won't follow the same routes.
Manchester got split into two halves for capacity reasons, with a new core site in Oldham serving north and east Manchester, which covers Ashton quite nicely. Oldham happens to be more-or-less in the middle of that area.
Florence
21-03-2004, 12:37
Oldham - Manchester - you can't tell much about the routes of the cables from the layer 3 information you pick up from a traceroute. The fibres themselves exist at level 1 and could go anywhere - I've seen fibre distances 3x the crow flies distance, and there will be two alternative fibres anyway going two different routes. The backbone fibres are nothing to do with the cable in the ground and won't follow the same routes.
Manchester got split into two halves for capacity reasons, with a new core site in Oldham serving north and east Manchester, which covers Ashton quite nicely. Oldham happens to be more-or-less in the middle of that area.
:lol: on a map yes but over country unless you have suspended cables over a country park, river and valley its a long way off..
Come on Bill C and Martin share your proxies with us so we can test them :DI only seem to go through one of these two, since the proxies came on......
cache9-mant.server.ntli.net or
cache2-mant.server.ntli.net
I only seem to go through one of these two, since the proxies came on......
cache9-mant.server.ntli.net or
cache2-mant.server.ntli.net
How do you tell that?
Bill - don't put Automatically Detect Settings on in Internet Options - it doesn't do anything except slow your browser startup down. For transparent caching it's completely irrelevant.
Can I remind people that you don't get assigned a specific proxy by ntl, you go through a group of proxies one of which will respond to your request depending on the destination IP you are requesting data from. Thus requests to two different sites could well be fielded by two completely different servers. The only reason you may think you're on a specific proxy is that two visits to the *same* site are likely to be fielded by the *same* proxy.
Ignition
21-03-2004, 16:17
:lol: on a map yes but over country unless you have suspended cables over a country park, river and valley its a long way off..
I think what BBK is saying is that it's perfectly possible that there will be longer distances of fibre involved than the as the crow flies distance, this is for redundancies sake - there's no point in having two fibres run if they are both in the same ducting, it leaves a single point where fibre break takes service down.
As far as placement of Ashton and its' layer 1 routing, unless you know where the other set of cams are you can't say that that's close to your uBR than Oldham. From what BBK says this was done for load balancing purposes and seems to do that quite adequately - I really don't see what the issue is with going via Oldham, if you knew the sort of elongated routes DSL subscribers can take through BT's ATM cloud you may see things a bit differently!
What you see in your street is not the same as the fibre that connects uBRs to the rest of the network though, they are seperate networks.
However as I've already mentioned light travels at just under 300,000 km/second - London to Bristol in 1ms or so - it takes about 60ms to cross the Atlantic, going through the numerous repeaters on the way, I can't really see the extra length there making anything more than microseconds of difference and it certainly wouldn't affect services in any way shape or form.
11 26 ms 25 ms 25 ms mant-t2core-b-pos31.inet.ntl.com
12 27 ms 25 ms 27 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan54.inet.ntl.com
13 26 ms 25 ms 27 ms ubr01asht.inet.ntl.com
th'engineer
21-03-2004, 16:24
Somebody has switched them on again:Yikes: back to slow browsing
1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 192.168.2.1
2 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms 10.23.48.1
3 14 ms <10 ms <10 ms oldh-t2cam1-a-ge910.inet.ntl.com [80.5.164.61]
4 302 ms 13 ms 14 ms mant-t2core-a-ge-wan62.inet.ntl.com [213.104.24
41]
5 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms man-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.57]
6 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms man-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.178]
7 28 ms 14 ms 27 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
8 14 ms 27 ms 14 ms win-dc-a-v900.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.162]
9 14 ms 28 ms 13 ms www.ntlworld.com (http://www.ntlworld.com) [62.253.162.30]
Ignition
21-03-2004, 16:40
Somebody has switched them on again:Yikes: back to slow browsing
1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 192.168.2.1
2 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms 10.23.48.1
3 14 ms <10 ms <10 ms oldh-t2cam1-a-ge910.inet.ntl.com [80.5.164.61]
4 302 ms 13 ms 14 ms mant-t2core-a-ge-wan62.inet.ntl.com [213.104.24
41]
5 14 ms 14 ms 13 ms man-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.57]
6 14 ms 13 ms 14 ms man-bb-b-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.178]
7 28 ms 14 ms 27 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
8 14 ms 27 ms 14 ms win-dc-a-v900.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.162]
9 14 ms 28 ms 13 ms www.ntlworld.com (http://www.ntlworld.com) [62.253.162.30]
[16:33] * theng (~theng@spcx-roch1-6-0-custx.manc.broadband.ntl.com) has joined #nthellworld
[16:34] <theng> look at the p9ings BBK in the thread
I'll jump in for BBKing here and say this again as I did in previous page...
Pings are not affected by caches
That looks like a bit of activity on the line - note 1st hop and last hop are equal latency... I wouldn't mind pings like those to be honest:
1 1 ms <1 ms 1 ms gatelock-corporate.inside.net [192.168.253.1]
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms x-modem.inside.net [10.0.0.2]
3 17 ms 16 ms 17 ms 81-86-224-1.dsl.pipex.com [81.86.224.1]
4 16 ms 17 ms 15 ms sms10k2-2.cr1.uk5.systems.pipex.net [62.241.161.45]
5 18 ms 23 ms 17 ms ge-1-2-0.cr1.gs1.systems.pipex.net [62.241.161.97]
6 28 ms 17 ms 17 ms tmp.xchangepoint.net [217.79.160.89]
7 17 ms 18 ms 17 ms bre-bb-a-so-310-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.105]
8 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms win-bb-b-so-600-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.198]
9 20 ms 18 ms 19 ms win-bb-a-ae0-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.172.161]
10 19 ms 19 ms 17 ms win-dc-a-v902.inet.ntl.com [62.253.187.222]
11 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]
How do you tell that?
Bill - don't put Automatically Detect Settings on in Internet Options - it doesn't do anything except slow your browser startup down. For transparent caching it's completely irrelevant.
Can I remind people that you don't get assigned a specific proxy by ntl, you go through a group of proxies one of which will respond to your request depending on the destination IP you are requesting data from. Thus requests to two different sites could well be fielded by two completely different servers. The only reason you may think you're on a specific proxy is that two visits to the *same* site are likely to be fielded by the *same* proxy.
Ah, didn't know that. So we hop around the proxies anyway depending on what page we ask for? So if i specify a proxy do i stay on that one or doesn't it apply either? Not that i change the settings, i'm just curious.
I used Allnet Tools or Samspade always gave these results.
Ignition
21-03-2004, 17:03
Ah, didn't know that. So we hop around the proxies anyway depending on what page we ask for? So if i specify a proxy do i stay on that one or doesn't it apply either? Not that i change the settings, i'm just curious.
I used Allnet Tools or Samspade always gave these results.
If transparently cached yep you hop around the proxies, if you specify one you stay on that one proxy.
The only traffic redirected to the proxies is traffic on port 80, TCP. (Some cases DNS as well but let's not complicate). Standard pings won't be affected, they don't go on port 80 and they don't use TCP.
Quite right - it should theoretically be possible for a dodgy proxy to be detected if a lot of people in an area complain about access to a certain site, as you just examine which proxy would cache that site and take a good look at it. Sites subject to poor browsing are thus better to report than traceroutes, which, in th'eng's case, will make people jealous, as it goes to show that his UBR is extremely undersubscribed :)
Quite right - it should theoretically be possible for a dodgy proxy to be detected if a lot of people in an area complain about access to a certain site, as you just examine which proxy would cache that site and take a good look at it. Sites subject to poor browsing are thus better to report than traceroutes, which, in th'eng's case, will make people jealous, as it goes to show that his UBR is extremely undersubscribed :)
:Yikes: OMG a undersubscibed UBR we cannot have this. Quick do something :PP: :LOL:
Florence
21-03-2004, 17:18
Quite right - it should theoretically be possible for a dodgy proxy to be detected if a lot of people in an area complain about access to a certain site, as you just examine which proxy would cache that site and take a good look at it. Sites subject to poor browsing are thus better to report than traceroutes, which, in th'eng's case, will make people jealous, as it goes to show that his UBR is extremely undersubscribed :)
So what you want us to report is the website we was trying to access and not the tracert......
The proxies seem more trouble that what they are worth....
I will start to report the websites I am trying to visit.. Thanks for replying BBKing and JustAnotherNoob, wonder why they never told us on tech support that its the websites they needed to check the proxies.
One more question how will they know which proxy if we go through them all?
Is there anything we can download that will tell us our proxy when pages fail to load so we will know which and can report it?
Tracing route to www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 20 ms 10 ms 10 ms 10.11.32.1
2 10 ms 20 ms 10 ms oldh-t2cam1-b-ge-wan51-120.inet.ntl.com [80.5.16
4.209]
3 20 ms 10 ms 10 ms mant-t2core-b-ge-wan64.inet.ntl.com [213.104.242
.181]
4 30 ms 10 ms 10 ms man-bb-b-so-210-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.184.61]
5 20 ms 20 ms 10 ms win-bb-a-so-300-0.inet.ntl.com [62.253.185.138]
6 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms win-dc-a-v900.inet.ntl.com [62.253.188.162]
7 20 ms 20 ms 30 ms www.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.30]
Trace complete.
I am having a good day really hope it stays like this only national lottery that was slow loading but I havent been on all day and think everyone have gone visiting mothers.....
th'engineer
21-03-2004, 20:58
i can confirm that the baguley caches are working, if you have problems with the manc the baguley are ok.
badnbusy
21-03-2004, 21:43
Yep...
I'm having great trouble accessing the website I'm working on for my job.
www.hhonline.co.uk
If i manually specifiy a manchester proxy, I can get to it. But when I dont specify one, I cant :(
How can I find out which proxy is stopping me?
Ignition
21-03-2004, 21:43
Please don't do that, you end up with overload somewhere else. If people are going to find the addresses for Baguley they'll need to consult the list anyway and it's a lot better if people pick them kinda randomly (without any being suggested).
Anyone who has any kind of trouble even totally unrelated to proxies may read that post and pile onto Baguley and pretty soon Baguley is far from ok - it's a relatively small site for number of caches (4 of them) and a majority will pile onto cache1, then those in Baguley will start to play musical caches.
The fact is the majority of caches are ok the majority of the time, even specifying one of the Manchester caches will improve service if only one of them is having strife.
How can I find out which proxy is stopping me?
You shouldn't have to worry about that - do your work around and give the site's address when reporting the fault, it's ntl's problem to figure out which cache is not working properly, not yours.
th'engineer
21-03-2004, 21:47
Please don't do that, you end up with overload somewhere else. If people are going to find the addresses for Baguley they'll need to consult the list anyway and it's a lot better if people pick them kinda randomly (without any being suggested).
Anyone who has any kind of trouble even totally unrelated to proxies may read that post and pile onto Baguley and pretty soon Baguley is far from ok - it's a relatively small site for number of caches (4 of them) and a majority will pile onto cache1, then those in Baguley will start to play musical caches.
The fact is the majority of caches are ok the majority of the time, even specifying one of the Manchester caches will improve service if only one of them is having strife.I take you comments on board but if the software that balances does not seem to be working i have no other option but to specify a proxy.
Even that advice comes from swansea to specify one that works.
I realise its going to change the load calcuations but all i want is a working service
Ignition
21-03-2004, 21:55
I take you comments on board but if the software that balances does not seem to be working i have no other option but to specify a proxy.
Even that advice comes from swansea to specify one that works.
I realise its going to change the load calcuations but all i want is a working service
Fine, my concern was more with suggeseting a particular one, the vast majority are working fine at any particular time, and it's a fact that if you suggest a site most will go onto cache1 or cache4. (first and last in Baguley). By all means sidestep, that I'm not fussed about - if they were working properly in the first place there'd be no need to so I'd hope no-one can complain too much about you doing that.
Why not specify a local one first? It's closer/faster and doesn't overload someone else's area (just adds extra content on the one you specify and slows it down, but still).
th'engineer
22-03-2004, 09:30
Why not specify a local one first? It's closer/faster and doesn't overload someone else's area (just adds extra content on the one you specify and slows it down, but still).
Would it not be better to get the NTL loading software working than have customers having to specify their own proxy.
Would it not be better to find out why this happens in the North West only, are there any other parts of the NW east region infrastructure that cause this.
Is it because the majority of people are STB as opposed to SACM.
Please take the above as suggestions for improvement of the service not
criticism of the service, it was right before the proxies have been introduced.
To add to the above my lads pings have gone through the roof on gaming since introduction i know not related but are you sure it can not be an effect of the introduction
Steve, is it any specifics sites, I don't seem to have any problems at all.
BTW, AllNettools is now detecting my proxy once more. seem to be going through cache 10 according to them, yet when I use the link in Pem's post it still comes up as cache 9.
th'engineer
22-03-2004, 10:01
Steve, is it any specifics sites, I don't seem to have any problems at all.
BTW, AllNettools is now detecting my proxy once more. seem to be going through cache 10 according to them, yet when I use the link in Pem's post it still comes up as cache 9.
specific sites
Google
Autotrader
Ebay
Nthellworld.co.uk
Ntlworld.com
Numion.com
Any other that is used without specifying at proxy
Would it not be better to get the NTL loading software working than have customers having to specify their own proxy.
Yes.
Would it not be better to find out why this happens in the North West only, are there any other parts of the NW east region infrastructure that cause this.
I've seen reports from elsewhere, but most of the ntl network has been cached for a while, NW has just been turned back on.
Is it because the majority of people are STB as opposed to SACM.
The majority of *devices* are STB, but the broadband numbers will be almost equal by now and SACM may be in the lead. In any case this is true for the whole of the ex-CWC area.
To add to the above my lads pings have gone through the roof on gaming since introduction i know not related but are you sure it can not be an effect of the introduction
I'm sure it can't be an effect of the introduction. Propose a mechanism for how layer 4 TCP port-based redirection can affect ICMP or UDP.
Also last time you posted a trace your pings looked fine to me, and I've checked your UBR and as usual it's top-notch.
th'engineer
22-03-2004, 10:20
BBK,
1. when using non specified proxy browsing slow, page does not refresh or load properley
2. When specifying Man proxy browsing slow page does not refresh or load properley.
3. When specifying othe non manc such as baguley or winnerish browsing is better. but have to keep changing proxy when it gets slow.
4. When proxies not working browsing good page does refresh and load properley
List of sites available in previous posts
Thanks for that Steve.
When specifying one of the Manchester proxies, do you go right through the card from 1 to 10 and try all those sites on all of them? If certain of them are playing up that would spot it.
specific sites
Google
Autotrader
Ebay
Nthellworld.co.uk
Ntlworld.com
Numion.com
Any other that is used without specifying at proxyChecked all of them, everyone loaded in seconds, the Numion.com was so fast it seemed as though it loaded before I hit "Enter":)
I have not had to specify a proxy since they came back on. IP/DNS both set to "automatically obtain"
PS, AllNettools is now reporting "No proxy" again, very unreliable ATM.
th'engineer
22-03-2004, 19:19
Thanks for that Steve.
When specifying one of the Manchester proxies, do you go right through the card from 1 to 10 and try all those sites on all of them? If certain of them are playing up that would spot it.
Just got home tried connecting to ntlworld with none specified would not even come up specifying another proxy in the baguley range its working
Things have been bad here in Stockport for over a week with Saturday being particularly bad. Sunday was even worse, I gave up Sunday evening.
This evening I have spent almost 3 hours trying the access the web.
With no settings in IE no web access at all.
Try a random MAN cache I might connect for about 2 minutes then no connection.
I have even tried 2 INKTOMI proxies suggested on Saturday evening without any joy.
Last evening I even lost lost the default gateway twice.
This evening I've had to reboot the STB twice to get any connection (renew didn't work), been through at least 12 proxies and ended up on a Middlesbrough which seems to be working OK, touch wood.
I thought things had been going well for too long for it to last :mad:
th'engineer
23-03-2004, 02:35
I think you will find that a lot of people are doing the proxy dance going round the country trying to find a working proxy or two.
Please report your problems to NTL at local and swansea level.
If enough people report it we might get something done
pedantic
23-03-2004, 15:55
Hi
I too have been troubled since the proxy servers were turned back on. During peak times they are very sluggish for me, and to be honest not that great during off peak times :( As a user of yahoo messenger and chat I have noticed that when trying to profile another user the page fails to display when being transparently cached. I decided to investigate this further, and found that by explicitly specifying my browser to use each of the manchester proxy servers using port 8080, I could then access profiles on everyone EXCEPT cache3-mant.server.ntli.net
It's therefore safe to assume that when being transparently cached, ntl are directing me through cache3 and hence why I'm not able to bring up the profiles page. I've also had some of the problems other people have been having with other sites (ebay and nthellworld) loading very slowly, or in the case of ebay, timing out. Could cache3 be the problem there also ? I've not had the time to test as yet.
Regards
The_real_dj
23-03-2004, 18:42
yep ive been having probs with sites aswell. quite a few 400 bad request errors and im having real problems getting on www.ebay.co.uk (http://www.ebay.co.uk) could someone else try ebay for us??
Cheer
Florence
23-03-2004, 18:44
yep ive been having probs with sites aswell. quite a few 400 bad request errors and im having real problems getting on www.ebay.co.uk (http://www.ebay.co.uk) could someone else try ebay for us??
Cheer
Ebay is on my list of sites I struggle to access when proxies are playing up.
The_real_dj
23-03-2004, 18:48
:cry: just missed out on a couple of DVD's i was after :cry:
yep ive been having probs with sites aswell. quite a few 400 bad request errors and im having real problems getting on www.ebay.co.uk (http://www.ebay.co.uk/) could someone else try ebay for us??
Cheerloads OK here. I seem to have no problems ( fingers crossed ) it must be because I am an:angel: ;)
Edit. do you get the same cache as me when viewing this site, 62.252.192.12 cache 9 ?
The_real_dj
23-03-2004, 20:00
yep my proxy comin to this site is 62.252.192.12 i have tried a number of browsers as well and firfox shows something intersting:: look at the bottom left
Florence
23-03-2004, 20:27
yep my proxy comin to this site is 62.252.192.12 i have tried a number of browsers as well and firfox shows something intersting:: look at the bottom left
When you try and fail in Firefox just open IE and try see if you can get to ebay then..
The_real_dj
23-03-2004, 20:33
bizarr it seems to work in IE now but not in fire fox, it didnt work in IE a bit a go. Somthin fishy's goin on lol
pedantic
23-03-2004, 20:33
When you try and fail in Firefox just open IE and try see if you can get to ebay then..
Kitty
It's a proxy problem, changing browsers won't help because you're still routed the same way regardless of browser.
Regards
Florence
23-03-2004, 20:39
Kitty
It's a proxy problem, changing browsers won't help because you're still routed the same way regardless of browser.
Regards
Yes if it fails in both you rule out a browser problem so when you call Tech support you can say you have tried in two different browsers...
pedantic
23-03-2004, 20:44
Yes if it fails in both you rule out a browser problem so when you call Tech support you can say you have tried in two different browsers...
True ! Never thought of that ........hush me gob :disturbd:
Regards
Foo Fighter
23-03-2004, 20:44
Was just about to see if anyone was having problems getting on ebay
Who do we complain to? anyone at ntl now? Why did they mess with something that was working perfectly
Assholes :mad:
Its cache10 62.252.193.13 thats a bag of crap.
Kitty
It's a proxy problem, changing browsers won't help because you're still routed the same way regardless of browser.
RegardsIf it is a proxy problem, why have I had no problems whatsoever since the proxies came back online, I am in the same area as The_real_dj and can access all the sites that Th'eng and he seem to be having problems with . If I go through the same proxy as him to this site there is a good chance I will do the same on ebay.
Foo Fighter
23-03-2004, 20:48
If it is a proxy problem, why have I had no problems whatsoever since the proxies came back online, I am in the same area as The_real_dj and can access all the sites that Th'eng and he seem to be having problems with . If I go through the same proxy as him to this site there is a good chance I will do the same on ebay.
ebay doesnt work for me in firefox or IE
pedantic
23-03-2004, 20:48
If it is a proxy problem, why have I had no problems whatsoever since the proxies came back online, I am in the same area as The_real_dj and can access all the sites that Th'eng and he seem to be having problems with . If I go through the same proxy as him to this site there is a good chance I will do the same on ebay.
Maybe you're very lucky ;) there's an obvious problem for a LOT of people, hence the size of this thread.
Regards
Foo Fighter
23-03-2004, 20:52
I think we should all jump on one proxy server and slow some other areas right down until they turn off the machester proxies. They'll have to listen if we start causing them problems
Foo Fighter
23-03-2004, 20:56
Definatly Manchester cache10, just changed to leeds inktomi1-lee.server.ntl.com and ebay is fine
th'engineer
23-03-2004, 21:07
I think we need to call the North West the proxy dance area.
Keeps us busy at least we can change our proxies, think of all the poor customers that can not. That have not found this site and are having to re config their computers with the help of TS
I think we should all jump on one proxy server and slow some other areas right down until they turn off the machester proxies. They'll have to listen if we start causing them problems
Gee, thats a good idea - screw everyone else up :fit:
Chrysalis
24-03-2004, 04:00
lol dammit I need some fellow leics users so we can get our proxies turned of again.
Foo Fighter
24-03-2004, 09:23
Gee, thats a good idea - screw everyone else up :fit:
The bigger the problem the sooner it will be fixed :)
Stuartbe
24-03-2004, 09:27
I think we should all jump on one proxy server and slow some other areas right down until they turn off the machester proxies. They'll have to listen if we start causing them problems
I agree with Pem.... That is not fair to other users !!
You would be the first to complain of it was done to the proxy you are on !
Chrysalis
25-03-2004, 02:49
ntl should be investigating even if 1 user proves the fault is not at their end.
As if the frustration level is not high enough here in Gt Manchester I now keep losing the default gateway connection.
NTL Stop putting on more users and provide the service existing user pay for, that's 24/7 connectivity not something that stops working after about 6pm :afire:
Stuartbe
25-03-2004, 22:55
Odd you say that... My monitoring software alerted me to the default gateway going down 3 times today !!!
th'engineer
28-03-2004, 10:41
ntl should be investigating even if 1 user proves the fault is not at their end.
They can only investigate if people report it , therefore its in your hands to report it
Florence
28-03-2004, 17:15
Just phoned tech support as I was unable to surf the web. MiRC and MSN was still working just all HTTP traffic had stopped. The message said an " error had occured while connecting to my HTTP proxy with the proxy ip number.
After talking to Keith :tu: for the help when I was stuck. He managed to get Martyn (Scott from Chetnet) to help.. When I got back online I went to nettools and it says no proxy found....
Please if they have been turned off leave them off find another use for them...
Thanks to Martyn and Keith :)
EDITED to add
On nettools it says no proxy detected yet on UK broadband-help it detects a proxy on I have never been on before so looks like I have been jumped to another proxy... :Yikes:
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