View Full Version : bargain digital camera
Here's a bit of a heads-up (or, depending on your viewpoint, blatant advertising - sorry).
First a bit of history. Mrs A has a tiny Olympus XA3 to stick in her pocket as a snappy camera. It takes great pictures but recently, and for the second time, the shutter packed up. Rather than repair it again we thought it was about time for her to get into digital. So I looked around and did a bit of research.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/ - 'A'-list value camera is the Canon A80 (was A70)
http://www.robgalbraith.com/ - a professional photographers' forum - check out the compact cameras forum for what they use - as often as not the Canon A70.
http://www.kenrockwell.com/ - a professional photographer's site - check out the how-to best compact camera - the Canon A60, A70 and A80.
Get the message yet? ;)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/ - has loads of extensive reviews of digital cameras. These Canons rate very well. In particular look at the sample shots and videos.
While looking at all this information I noted that these cameras are all very similar. The differences can be summarised:
A60 - 2 megapixels, 320x240 video
A70 - 3 megapixels, 640x480 video
A80 - 4 megapixels, 320x240 video, flip out LCD
I checked out some prices at http://www.amazon.co.uk/
A60 - £129.99 - now down to £99.99! !!
A70 - £209.99
A80 - £269.29
Even at £130 it was a bargain so I bought the A60. Okay you can get more megapixels for less money but ths is a Canon we are talking about and so far it's been fantastic.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/altisuk/temp/a60.jpg
Other places you might want to check out:
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/digital/data/2003_ps-a60.html - Canon's info page.
http://www.powershot.com/powershot2/a70-60/index.html - another Canon info page.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03022706canona60a70.asp - an independent review.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/powershot_a70-review/index.shtml - another independent review.
http://www.somacon.com/docs/canon_a60/ - an individual amateur user's review.
http://www.pbase.com/dickie/a70_tests - some sample shots by a professional photographer (stunning).
For me some big plus points are that it uses Compact Flash (the most versatile format and as used by all professional cameras) and standard AA cells (so I can use my NiMH rechargables).
If you don't have them already, you might also want to allow for:
1) a compact case (£18 for the official one is pretty steep)
2) two sets of four AA NiMH rechargable cells and a fast charger
3) a larger Compact Flash card
I bought my digital camera second hand, 3.3mp Sony for 50 notes :D works perfectly, came with 3 batteries and a Memory stick, bought an extra 128 mb memory stick for 30 quid off Ebay.
What a very comprehensive review - thanks, as I am considering a Digi and that very much suits my (tight-a$$) budget....
Canon are the dog's, I have a Z115 but thats 10 years ago tech now.. could be time to move on up
I`ve got an A70. Very very happy with it. Pretty good software package too.
Nice review atlas. Think I'd be keen on the A70 as my dad needs a new camera. Out of interest. Can you just take a flash card into your local Klick and they will develop it for you ?
Hi Nand ;) We don't have a Klick store near us so I don't know what they offer. However, the last time I was in our 24-hour Tesco's I did notice they offered prints from digital cameras for 15p each. I'm sure that they'll support the Compact Flash format. The camera even lets you set up which image you want to print and how many copies of each. You can also print directly from the camera to a Canon CP-200 or CP-300 printer (and possibly other printers that support the PictBridge format).
Here's a bit of a heads-up (or, depending on your viewpoint, blatant advertising - sorry). </snip>
This is all your fault, after reading all the reviews I was passing Jessops this morning and noticed an A80 on display, tried it out, loved the feel of it and ended up buying one + 4 NimH batteries + charger + 128mb CF card + case ... It's an absolutely excellent camera, very weighty, helps me take half decent photo's as I seem to develop the shakes when holding a camera. I'd recommend this to everyone, alternatively you can buy my Sony off Ebay in the next couple of days ;)
Thanks again for the info altis - I ordered one yesterday :)
Apologies for getting your name wrong Altis :) Don't spose you are as knowledgable when it comes to DV cameras ? Need to get one of them asap for my folks.
The A70 supports 640x480 at 15 frames per sec - is that good enough.
Look at the sample video here:
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/a70_samples.html
Ack I meant to say camcorders sorry :)
Apologies for getting your name wrong Altis :) Don't spose you are as knowledgable when it comes to DV cameras ? Need to get one of them asap for my folks.
Best snippet of advice I can offer for DV camcorders is, focus on the features you really want/need and don't be diverted by the bells and whistles that sound great but are of little practical use. For example, many will offer digital still photography but the image quality is seldom very good - if you really want to take digital photos, you really do still need a digital camera. And the kinds of video-effects you can achieve in-camera are normally pants compared to what you can get from half-decent DV-editing computer software.
Mini-DV cameras offer the best minaturisation and slightly better image quality than Digital-8, but you will pay more for it. Personally I use a Sony Digital Handycam, which looks essentially the same as any Handycam produced in the last 15 years, and it works a treat.
Above all, decide whether you are ever likely to want to do DV editing on your computer and look carefully at cameras that claim to offer DV-out ... if it doesn't say DV-in/out, then it almost certainly doesn't allow you to export your finished project from the computer back to camera tape. This may or may not be a problem depending on whether you have a DVD writer and whether the people you want to show your videos to all have DVD players.
SMHarman
16-02-2004, 17:33
Apologies for getting your name wrong Altis :) Don't spose you are as knowledgable when it comes to DV cameras ? Need to get one of them asap for my folks.
What for?
Cannon are good again. The MV600/630/650 a good midrange set. The 650 has a longer zoom, but personally I have ended up buying a wide angle attachment, works great for shooting indoors and even getting a wider panoramic outdoor shot.
Also Sony are nice, with Zeiss optics, and Pannys get good reviews.
You need to consider whether the camcorder footage will be edited (need DVout) the edited footage recorded back onto a tape (need DV in) - cheapest and most reliable place to keep it IMHO. Whether you also want flash media (SD on the Cannons, Memory Stick on Sony), the resolution of such shooting (TV 640x or higher).
Size of the Camera, pocket, palm, bigger. Do they have an analoge Sony where the Hi8 tapes could be backward compatible.
Etc...
And finally think about whether you want true 16:9 recording. Most of the features on the camera I have I don't use (MV530). I use the exposure controls, Sand&Snow, Sport etc, but not the sepia, wipes, etc, all that can be done free and easily on iMovie or Windows Movie Maker II.
Thanks fellas... just to get back to a few things you asked. Its for my folks to take on holiday. But they love their holiday memories so although it'd only be used 3 or 4 times a year I'd want high quality. It also needs to be small. We've currently got a Sony Handycam (hi8) and I'd want something alot smaller than that.
The plan is for me to record their holidays onto DVD in my computer. Probably just straight copies for starters and look at editing them up at some point. Finally convinced them (after years trying) to get a dvd player :) Would also be keen to copy the old VHS tapes of their holidays through the camera and onto DVD again. 16:9 is a must I'd say with the new camera. They'd be annoyed if it wasn't 16:9 after all my nagging for them to get a widescreen tv :) THe budget it probably around £500-£600 but I'd be needing a couple of batteries, a case and some tapes/sticks (not actually sure what the new dv camcorders use)
Not expecting anyone to do all the donkey work for me. I'm reading all the reviews and visiting all the sites to see which one to get myself. But its really good when folk in the know can give advice.
Thanks in advance.
I've only just noticed that the A80's flip out screen twists round so you can take self portraits (after sitting around for hours wondering what use it was, then getting annoyed that you actually had to flip it out to use it. </retard>
SMHarman
16-02-2004, 18:19
Thanks fellas... just to get back to a few things you asked. Its for my folks to take on holiday. But they love their holiday memories so although it'd only be used 3 or 4 times a year I'd want high quality. It also needs to be small. We've currently got a Sony Handycam (hi8) and I'd want something alot smaller than that.
The plan is for me to record their holidays onto DVD in my computer. Probably just straight copies for starters and look at editing them up at some point. Finally convinced them (after years trying) to get a dvd player :) Would also be keen to copy the old VHS tapes of their holidays through the camera and onto DVD again. 16:9 is a must I'd say with the new camera. They'd be annoyed if it wasn't 16:9 after all my nagging for them to get a widescreen tv :) THe budget it probably around £500-£600 but I'd be needing a couple of batteries, a case and some tapes/sticks (not actually sure what the new dv camcorders use)
Not expecting anyone to do all the donkey work for me. I'm reading all the reviews and visiting all the sites to see which one to get myself. But its really good when folk in the know can give advice.
Thanks in advance.
Some of the sony range, though I think they are all last years could playback Hi8 on their DV8 machines, useful if your Hi8 is on its way out to pasture.
If its not a feature you feel you need then the Cannon 630 I mentioned does all you need, true widescreen, analogue to DV conversion, DVin/out, certainly portable enough for my needs.
http://www.nomatica.com/index.asp?devise=GBP&langue=EN&pays=UK
www.Nomatica.co.uk £555 (allow for â‚ ¬ conversion fluctuation) with spare battery (the big one), case, 3 tapes and 3 year wwty. £377 without the extras.
The Canon does indeed look good. Has everything I need in a camcorder really. Would you happen to know the difference between DV and mini DV and whether one format is superior ?
With regards to that camera, can get it for £315 at Dixons believe it or not, which is fecking good. The Dixons web offer is £350 but if you use the voucher code from shop4camcorders.co.uk you get an extra 10% off :)
SMHarman
17-02-2004, 09:37
The Canon does indeed look good. Has everything I need in a camcorder really. Would you happen to know the difference between DV and mini DV and whether one format is superior ?
With regards to that camera, can get it for £315 at Dixons believe it or not, which is fecking good. The Dixons web offer is £350 but if you use the voucher code from shop4camcorders.co.uk you get an extra 10% off :)
DV/MiniDv - AFAIK its the same, just the tape is smaller, possibly shorter record time, and no extended record time options (availible on the 650). Mini DV is used more in the next range up, the MVX10 shaped ones, but I think the MVX10 is still DV. It allows a smaller form factor for the camera. If you have not seen one you'll be amazed at the size of a DV tape though. About 40x smaller than VHS and stores more lines of image.
The only thing I would warn about on the 6n0 range is that some motor noise can be picked up by the onboard microphone, can be fixed by buying an add on one from jessops for about £25. Probably cheaper ones elsewhere. I think this is a problem with many small form camcorders anyway.
vaiolator
17-02-2004, 23:53
Just a couple of links that may be helpful for camcorders.
http://www.simplydv.co.uk/reviews.html
http://www.reviewcentre.com/products58.html
I bought a JVC GRD25 at Xmas from Jessops. I had seen the same cam online at a couple of place for about £130 cheaper. I knew that Jessops would try to match the price and they managed to get within £15, but also threw in a 5 pack of DV tapes which made up for it.
For spare batteries, I bought a generic double capacity one on Ebay from a UK supplier with about 100% positive feedback. I paid about £18 "buy it now" inc p+p. I saw the same on Saturday in Dixons for £69.99! Not a bad saving. I will find the name of the seller if anyone wants it.
Oh I nearly forgot, whilst looking into the one I bought I too found many people mentioning motor noise on Canons. My analogue Canon, only about 18 months old has the same.
Thanks SMHarman. Wish I'd got the canon yesterday. Dixons put the price back upto £400 today :) Can still get it for £360 but £45 more then yesterday. My main concern with the Canon as you say was the tape transport noise, I had wondered if it was possible to fit an external mic and solve it. Does it extend out far out of interest ? I think my folks want it to be kinda small, not sure they want this massive boom extending out the front :D
Great link that vaiolator (the reviewcentre one). Thanks.
Just an update on the original topic:
Amazon seem to have exhausted their supply of the A60 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000C6YJO/qid=1085471466). They do occasionally list a few second hand items but it looks like this model has more-or-less gone for good.
Keen viewers will have noticed that there is a new model in the range - the 3.2 megapixel A75 (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/a75.html). This is very similar to the A70 (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/a70.html) which, I guess, is soon for the chop. So eyes peeled for some more bargain prices on this one!
At the moment Argos has the A70 (http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=89210) for £179.99 and, according to our latest freebie flop-out, it should be on offer from 27th to 31st May for £149.99 .
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For a rediculously large amount of information on CF cards look here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007
For a good charger you could try one of these:
http://www.gpbatteries.com.hk/html/products/powerbank_premium.html
At only 36 minutes for up to four 2100mAh NiMh AAs, the U-Smart claims to be the worlds fastest charger. It's available (inc 4 x 2100mAh) for £35.42 + vat from CPC (http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc/search.asp?keyword=bt03004).
For some non-rechargables you could try these:
http://www.energizer-eu.com/en/e2_lithium/default.htm
At 2900mAh, they claim to be the worlds longest lasting AAs. They work well in the cold - ideal for trips to the Himalayas - and they have a very long shelf life so they're ideal as a backup set. Expensive mind, at about £5 (http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc/search.asp?keyword=btl91) a pair!
SMHarman
25-05-2004, 11:40
<snip>It's an absolutely excellent camera, very weighty, helps me take half decent photo's as I seem to develop the shakes when holding a camera. I'd recommend this to everyone, alternatively you can buy my Sony off Ebay in the next couple of days ;)
Missed this when i read the thread back then...
When taking a photo. take a deep breath, hold, press the shutter, then exhale.
Removes the shakes no end. I can hand hold a 30th (obviously not on full zoom) like this.
On the subject of Cannon cameras, I was getting upset at my EOS10 last week as the LCD screen is starting to delaminate and black bits are appearing on it. Still works fine and is readable though. Then I realised that the camera is 15 years old. Cannons are built to last.
Or p'raps Bifta should have gone for the PowerShot S1is (http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/s1is.html) instead - 3 megapix, 10x optical zoom with optical image stabilization. ;)
My photos suffer from this quite often. I try to stay steady but sometimes it's not convenient to hang around! I'm sure I used to be better at this in my youth when I wielded a trusty Zenith-B. I think that the shutter delay of digitals doesn't help. I often seem to take the camera away from my eye too quickly - I'll try to remember that big breath trick.
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