View Full Version : auto or manual ( spin of from b gates thread )
paulyoung666
04-02-2004, 16:55
good sirs , your opinions please on auto or manual cars , me i prefer manual , but there you go :)
Manual, more control, and in my experience better ooomph :)
paulyoung666
04-02-2004, 17:07
Manual, more control, and in my experience better ooomph :)
and more fun as well , you cant beat dropping down a couple of gears with a quick ' blip ' of the throttle to go with it :D :D :D
swoop101
04-02-2004, 17:08
Both.
Manual for fun, auto for cruising.
Trust me to be awkward :D :rolleyes:
Steptronic ... Best of both worlds!
Both.
Manual for fun, auto for cruising.
Trust me to be awkward :D :rolleyes:
imsure if you had the money you could get both :D
i think automatic would be better.
*has tried manual :eek:
and more fun as well , you cant beat dropping down a couple of gears with a quick ' blip ' of the throttle to go with it :D :D :D
Ooo yes, and I do like slipping into 6th and doing about 2Krpm at 70mph :)
Kronny, manual will come naturally to you eventually, much easier to do hill starts etc.
Better control on icy roads too.
Don't make the mistake a friend did in taking her test in an auto, you won't be able to drive manuals except with L plates
Kronny, manual will come naturally to you eventually, much easier to do hill starts etc.
Better control on icy roads too.
Don't make the mistake a friend did in taking her test in an auto, you won't be able to drive manuals except with L plates
ah i was going to take them in auto but i decided not to, because of the fact most cars are manual, and your proberbly right about the controlling of the car....................
having said that it was nice journey when the engine of an MG was revving with accelleration while i was sat in it on the motorway :D
Automatic for me, but you need a decent sized car and engine to get the best out of it. I have been driving for 38 years professionally and with todays traffic, I can still enjoy my driving, with my smooth comfortable Volvo auto:)
ah i was going to take them in auto but i decided not to, because of the fact most cars are manual, and your proberbly right about the controlling of the car....................
having said that it was nice journey when the engine of an MG was revving with accelleration while i was sat in it on the motorway :D
Take your test in an auto, only drive an auto :(
Take your test in manual, drive anything :D
If you're really good, I might let you drive my new megane :pp
If you're really good, I might let you drive my new megane :pp
no ill have a renault 'clio' :rofl:
no ill have a renault 'clio' :rofl:
Wait til next year then, the new one's coming out.
Apparently the current one needs to go to a renault garage if your headlight bulb goes, and they'll charge about £90 to do the job!
You do know that Nicole doesn't come with the clio? I was really dissapointed when I found that out :(
Steptronic ... Best of both worlds!
Whats Steptonic then? :dunce: me being about 20 years behind on motors :)
paulyoung666
04-02-2004, 17:43
Whats Steptonic then? :dunce: me being about 20 years behind on motors :)
its a manual / auto sort of thing , poncy arrangement where you just have to pull back or forwards on the lever :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Whats Steptonic then? :dunce: me being about 20 years behind on motors :)
gears with an automatic clutch or those flip padels like the citroen C2 has :D
Sounds abit of a bodge then, I think i'll stay with the manual. I like to be able to 'feel' the car, the automatics Ive driven just don't seem to do that very well. It is nice to be able brake into a corner and keep the revs up at the same time for coming out of it tho ;)
paulyoung666
04-02-2004, 17:58
Sounds abit of a bodge then, I think i'll stay with the manual. I like to be able to 'feel' the car, the automatics Ive driven just don't seem to do that very well. It is nice to be able brake into a corner and keep the revs up at the same time for coming out of it tho ;)
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh , typed like a true petrol head :D :D :D :D :D
Atomic22
04-02-2004, 18:10
Kronny, manual will come naturally to you eventually, much easier to do hill starts etc.
thats not quite true xaccers......to start on a hill in an auto you just prod the gas pedal........instead of having to slip the clutch with the other foot as well as giving it gas, and releasing the handbrake......one foot is easier than two and the engine holds the car stationary on hills so no handbrake is needed :)
saying that i prefer manual.....i have had one auto , a honda accord ,the cruise control was awesome as it changed gear for you up hill and down dale and it had buttons on the steering wheel to speed up and slow down with so you never even had to move your feet except to brake.......thirsty though
and more fun as well , you cant beat dropping down a couple of gears with a quick ' blip ' of the throttle to go with it :D :D :DBut with auto you have the option to hit the throttle hard and drop a gear. I still prefer manual though.
no ill have a renault 'clio' :rofl:
I'm about due for a new car (had me fiesta almost 4 years now - got it when i passed my test), and I really fancy a brand new clio 182, but I can't really afford it :(. Hopefully before too long, I should be able to get a 2nd hand clio 172. :D
homealone
04-02-2004, 18:58
Having driven both, I much prefer manual, however there is one car I would never want to drive in a manual version again - a Mercedes 220, with a foot operated 'handbrake'. You push the lever down with your foot to set it & release using a toggle on the dash. The thing is it is either on or off, no-where near the control you get with a normal handbrake - and trying to co-ordinate throttle, clutch and 'handbrake' in slow moving traffic up an incline requires too many legs.:eek:
fireman328
04-02-2004, 19:00
I have an auto 2 litre with a switch on the centre console which is labelled as "sports change". What this means is that, when you floor the pedal, instead of allowing the auto to change up when it wants to, it holds in gear until it reaches 6000 rpm then changes up and does the same again.
It really surprises the boy racers in Golf GTi's at traffic lights, as they try to operate the gears, dip the clutch and steer all at the same time. Whilst I just keep the pedal to the metal and away we go !
Having driven both, I much prefer manual, however there is one car I would never want to drive in a manual version again - a Mercedes 220, with a foot operated 'handbrake'. You push the lever down with your foot to set it & release using a toggle on the dash. The thing is it is either on or off, no-where near the control you get with a normal handbrake - and trying to co-ordinate throttle, clutch and 'handbrake' in slow moving traffic up an incline requires too many legs.:eek:
Auto (steptronic or sequentronic in merc speak) is no better although I have mastered the left foot braking for dodgy hill starts. Or you can hold in on the throttle but the gear box starts to smell like sprouts after a while!!! :sick:
I have an auto 2 litre with a switch on the centre console which is labelled as "sports change". What this means is that, when you floor the pedal, instead of allowing the auto to change up when it wants to, it holds in gear until it reaches 6000 rpm then changes up and does the same again.
It really surprises the boy racers in Golf GTi's at traffic lights, as they try to operate the gears, dip the clutch and steer all at the same time. Whilst I just keep the pedal to the metal and away we go !
Yep, we used to do that when my bro had his 3 litre maxima - although the car was a big heavy beast of a car, it couldnt half shift, i can tell ya !
homealone
04-02-2004, 19:16
Auto (steptronic or sequentronic in merc speak) is no better although I have mastered the left foot braking for dodgy hill starts. Or you can hold in on the throttle but the gear box starts to smell like sprouts after a while!!! :sick:
lol, it was a company 'pool' car, so I think the 'wreck the gearbox' option would be ok;) - but not if you are paying the bills, obviously. - sprouts?:eek:
It puts me in mind of an American song in the 60's (can't remember the title or singer :dozey:) about a guy with an automatic, who had the 'bands' repaired, then decided to burn someone off away from the lights - but "the bands had gone again" :)
You do know that Nicole doesn't come with the clio? I was really dissapointed when I found that out :(
:(
well seriously, my ideal car would be a mercedes S class.
having looked the prices ill settle for something cheaper but retaining an elegant style......
I quite like the look of that one on the Ad recently with the gear control on the steering wheel on the opposite side to the indicators, people with leg problems have been able to get these for ages but this is the first one I have seen for commercial use.
Cant for the life of me remember what the car was though :shrug:
Im waiting for a car manufacturer to adopt the Console Joypad design or Joystick, makes so much more sense to me, how can a big circle and pedals be more efficient than using two hands and all of your fingers? Less movement required on your part and much more efficient IMO.
There was an american Car that was designed with a PSX Joypad a few years ago, I'll see if I can find it :D
And as for wich I prefer..... Hmmm, I dont drive :D but I do have an automatic scooter and its much easier to ride than my friends Geared bike so I think I'll go with automatic :D
blackthorn
04-02-2004, 20:41
Had 3 auto`s, first one was an Astra,then a Rover and now a Mazda. I just dont like manual gears, I drive for pleasure, not to be messing about with gearsticks and clutches :)
Manual for me,find it better for going fast(100+)
swoop101
04-02-2004, 20:47
Manual for me,find it better for going fast(100+)
On the track of course :naughty: ;)
Manual, more control, and in my experience better ooomph :)It all depends on the car and the driver...as I said to get the best out of an auto you need a decent sized engine/car.
Several years ago SAAB did some road tests with 900 series turbo's, manual and auto. They tested all types of drivers and the only ones who could get better times up to 60 mph in the manual cars were top notch Swedish police drivers.
Over the years I have had many cars both manual and auto, one Granada auto, one Vauxhall manual, and six Volvos, first three manual, last three auto. In most of todays traffic the ability in a manual car,to " drop it into 2nd and floor it" rarely arises but I would not have an auto with an engine size below 2.3 litres.
I am very rarely left at the lights:naughty:
homealone
04-02-2004, 21:19
Sounds abit of a bodge then, I think i'll stay with the manual. I like to be able to 'feel' the car, the automatics Ive driven just don't seem to do that very well. It is nice to be able brake into a corner and keep the revs up at the same time for coming out of it tho ;)
that struck a chord, the thing I miss most in an automatic, compared to a manual is being able to brake to an appropriate speed to clog it down a gear (or 2;) ) and then use engine braking for the final approach to the corner.
Going downhill in a manual & being able to use engine braking in lower gears, feels better too - imo:)
Sipowicz
04-02-2004, 21:21
Got my first Auto a couple of weeks ago, had manuals before. Don't mind either, but I do like the ease of the Auto, esp with the "Sport" mode on the gear box, even nicer with the V6! (Omega 2.5 V6 CD) and most modern Auto's will have a "snow & Ice" mode - pulls away in 2nd gear, so you can have control in the ice. (more so with rear wheel drive!)
Wait til next year then, the new one's coming out.
Apparently the current one needs to go to a renault garage if your headlight bulb goes, and they'll charge about £90 to do the job!
You do know that Nicole doesn't come with the clio? I was really dissapointed when I found that out :(
I took mine to halfords, they fitted the bulb for free.
I took mine to halfords, they fitted the bulb for free.
What year is your clio?
The woman at the dealer who's got one said that like the fog lights, they need to take it all apart to get to the back of the headlight
What year is your clio?
The woman at the dealer who's got one said that like the fog lights, they need to take it all apart to get to the back of the headlight
2001, its the current shape.
That said, it wasn't a simple job, it took the guy from halfords a bit of fiddling around to get the blub in - the space was very restricted. So it probably would be easier to take it apart. But it can be done with out that.
has to be auto with a big engine for me. I'm lucky to have a big imported 4x4 with the economy 4.0L engine. It can burble through the 5 speed computer controlled gears and hit 60 at 1800rpm or with a little squeeze of the pedal it surges forward then the gearbox decides you're serious and lets it roar to 6000rpm and perfect changes that whack you in the back with all 270bhp...... all while lazing in your comfy chair, watching the poor, struggling XR......
sorry got carried away there..... I like my car though.
economy 4.0L engine.
Could someone explain how the words "economy" and "4.0L engine" belong in the same sentence?! :confused:
has to be auto with a big engine for me. I'm lucky to have a big imported 4x4 with the economy 4.0L engine. It can burble through the 5 speed computer controlled gears and hit 60 at 1800rpm or with a little squeeze of the pedal it surges forward then the gearbox decides you're serious and lets it roar to 6000rpm and perfect changes that whack you in the back with all 270bhp...... all while lazing in your comfy chair, watching the poor, struggling XR......
sorry got carried away there..... I like my car though.
EXCELLENT! SOMEONE WITH GOOD TASTE! Someone with a real car!
Back to topic. *cough* I was carried away with my amazement.
My performance car (probably a Corvette C5) will be automatic. My everyday driving car (Corvette Convertible hopefully) will be manual. I like both. Automatic for the sheer performance, and manual for the control.
EXCELLENT! SOMEONE WITH GOOD TASTE! Someone with a real car!
Careful, it might be imported from the Eastern Bloc ...
that struck a chord, the thing I miss most in an automatic, compared to a manual is being able to brake to an appropriate speed to clog it down a gear (or 2;) ) and then use engine braking for the final approach to the corner.
Going downhill in a manual & being able to use engine braking in lower gears, feels better too - imo:)
If I am going down a long steep hill, I just shift the stick down to 4,3 or L depending on the steepness of the incline and the auto box internal braking saves me from having to keep my foot on the brakes.
So what are the disadvantages of Automatics with smaller engines? say about a 1.0 - 1.6, is it just Acceleration or is there anything more important?
paulyoung666
05-02-2004, 10:13
So what are the disadvantages of Automatics with smaller engines? say about a 1.0 - 1.6, is it just Acceleration or is there anything more important?
worse fuel consumption i would have thought :(
ian@huth
05-02-2004, 10:19
Auto is the only choice for me these days due to medical condition. I have a Vauxhall Astra which is only 1400cc but is quite nippy, especially in sports mode, and there is no problem in snow with the "snow" start. Most people who knock autos have never driven one and may be surprised when they do. Many years ago I used to have a Vauxhall Ventora 3.3 litre 3 speed auto which was a dream to drive. Floor the accelerator whilst doing 70 on the motorway and it dropped down into second and went off like a rocket.
SMHarman
05-02-2004, 10:26
Sounds abit of a bodge then, I think i'll stay with the manual. I like to be able to 'feel' the car, the automatics Ive driven just don't seem to do that very well. It is nice to be able brake into a corner and keep the revs up at the same time for coming out of it tho ;)
Its an F1 technology transfer, so I don't think its really a bodge. It only changes down when the gear is too high and doesn't change up so you choose to keep the revs high. You can also paddle down if you want a lower gear going into a corner, but it will protect the engine by not changing down until the gear will fit the revs (i.e you cant change down to 2nd at 80).
SMHarman
05-02-2004, 10:33
worse fuel consumption i would have thought :(
Historically it used to be due to the fact that the clutch or torque converter was a fluid coupling, wheras a standard clutch has two friction plates, thus when fully engaged the drivetrain and engine are connected an auto box had a fluid turbine style arrangement (I'm not a mechanic - far from it), this required more power and was less efficient.
Small engined cars are now using the CVT auto boxes, these use a direct steel band coupling, in general auto boxes have got much more sophisticated , smaller and efficient and this stuff called computer technology has improved control also.
The auto box and computers in my Volvo sense my type of driving and the gearbox is regulated to change gear in accordance with my driving style, if I have been driving slowly and smoothly for a while I can feel the difference and even see it by checking the rev counter. If I have been driving hard for any length of time ,the box holds the lower gears for longer before upshifting.
cjmillsnun
05-02-2004, 19:01
Had 3 auto`s, first one was an Astra,then a Rover and now a Mazda. I just dont like manual gears, I drive for pleasure, not to be messing about with gearsticks and clutches :)
You drive for pleaseure with an auto???
Sog boxes just don't do it for me. I need control, that means a clutch and a gear lever.
Gimme a car with a torquey engine (eg the Rover K as in my ZR) and a manual box. Put me on a nice twisty road and I am in heaven.
cjmillsnun
05-02-2004, 19:03
Its an F1 technology transfer, so I don't think its really a bodge. It only changes down when the gear is too high and doesn't change up so you choose to keep the revs high. You can also paddle down if you want a lower gear going into a corner, but it will protect the engine by not changing down until the gear will fit the revs (i.e you cant change down to 2nd at 80).
It is NOT the same as the F1 Semi Autos. People who have drivern F1 cars (eg Martin Brundle) agree on this and think the road versions are cr@p. As does a certain Mr Clarkson.
cjmillsnun
05-02-2004, 19:17
EXCELLENT! SOMEONE WITH GOOD TASTE! Someone with a real car!
Back to topic. *cough* I was carried away with my amazement.
My performance car (probably a Corvette C5) will be automatic. My everyday driving car (Corvette Convertible hopefully) will be manual. I like both. Automatic for the sheer performance, and manual for the control.
Ha ha Corvettes, My MG ZR will leave you for dust at the first bend on a British road......:rofl:
You yanks need to build yourselves some proper roads with sweeping bends and corners so that you can produce cars that handle. Then you will understand why European cars generally are small engined (for a lighter front end) and half the size of American cars.
What European cars lack in grunt, they more than make up for in handling, and efficiency, 50+mpg being possible from a 1.4 car producing 105bhp.
As does a certain Mr Clarkson.Well it must be true then:rolleyes: :rofl:
paulyoung666
05-02-2004, 19:23
Well it must be true then:rolleyes: :rofl:
nowt wrong with mr clarkson , top bloke that he is :)
Ha ha Corvettes, My MG ZR will leave you for dust at the first bend on a British road......:rofl:
You yanks need to build yourselves some proper roads with sweeping bends and corners so that you can produce cars that handle. Then you will understand why European cars generally are small engined (for a lighter front end) and half the size of American cars.
What European cars lack in grunt, they more than make up for in handling, and efficiency, 50+mpg being possible from a 1.4 car producing 105bhp.
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
paulyoung666
05-02-2004, 19:46
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
anyone can go fast in a straight line woodenhead , it takes a real man to corner fast , sorry wasnt forgetting the ladies there , i should have said person :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I don't feel the need to prove that I am a man. I just like driving fast, and flying with steep turns.
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
Yes, but you're never going to do 185mph on any road so why not just buy a normal car instead of a silly penis extension?
paulyoung666
05-02-2004, 20:10
Yes, but you're never going to do 185mph on any road so why not just buy a normal car instead of a silly penis extension?
nice :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yes, but you're never going to do 185mph on any road so why not just buy a normal car instead of a silly penis extension?
Really?
cjmillsnun
06-02-2004, 17:28
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
I hate Motorway/Freeway driving, it is so boring, makes me sleepy :zzz: :zzz: Whereas a challenging twisty country road, with no traffic about, :D :D :D :naughty:
Whats the speed limit for an interstate btw??? 55-75mph, might as well have a european car then, my ZR can do 115mph, and can cruise all day at 70 (our motorway speed limit)
You don't care for 50+mpg, that is why there are about 30 years of oil left, because you have a similar opinion to most Americans, and are draining our natural resources. We British pay 70p (about $1) per litre (just over 1/4 US Gal) of Petrol (Gasoline). Therefore because fuel is expensive here we care about economy figures.
Also 405BHP from 5.7 Litres??? Thats $h1te. A 2.0L European car (eg a SAAB 9-5, or Rover 820 Vitesse) can do 200BHP. Admittedly both are turbocharged, but a non turbocharged 1.8 can do 160 BHP.
SMHarman
06-02-2004, 17:35
<snip>
Whats the speed limit for an interstate btw??? 55-75mph, might as well have a european car then, my ZR can do 115mph, and can cruise all day at 70 (our motorway speed limit)
Its up to 75 in Florida, in much of the US it's still at 55 a throwback from the 70s fuel crisis. Speeding on them is far more strictly enforced than speeding on the UK / European motorway network.
You don't care for 50+mpg, that is why there are about 30 years of oil left, because you have a similar opinion to most Americans, and are draining our natural resources. We British pay 70p (about $1) per litre (just over 1/4 US Gal) of Petrol (Gasoline). Therefore because fuel is expensive here we care about economy figures.
Your being generous. A UK Pint is 20FlOz, a US one 16FlOz. so its actually nearer 1/5th.
Really?
Sensible people stick near/to or under the speed limit and only a complete retard would drive at that speed on any public road, which category do you fall into?
cjmillsnun
06-02-2004, 19:11
Its up to 75 in Florida, in much of the US it's still at 55 a throwback from the 70s fuel crisis. Speeding on them is far more strictly enforced than speeding on the UK / European motorway network.
Makes my argument for him driving a European car stronger.
Your being generous. A UK Pint is 20FlOz, a US one 16FlOz. so its actually nearer 1/5th.
Actually a UK Gal is approx 4.5 litres, a US Gal is approx 3.8 litres, so I'll stick with nearly 1/4.
Most interstates are 65 or 75. Not 55.
Montana though, has no speed limit. It isn't too far either, and that is where I'll be driving my Corvette for pleasure. Beautiful country side.
In addition, there are several race tracks in the vicinity, and I like going there. Once I have a car, I can finally participate.
And please show me a European car under 20,000 pounds that have more acceleration and a faster top speed than a Corvette.
Sipowicz
07-02-2004, 00:14
And please show me a European car under 20,000 pounds that have more acceleration and a faster top speed than a Corvette.
£20K of TVR!
nowt wrong with mr clarkson , top bloke that he is :)
Anyone who wears a jacket and jeans *definitely* has something wrong with him...!!
£20K of TVR!
I don't know a lot about TVR, but I googled:
CHIMAERA
0-60 in 4.8
top speed is 160
TAMORA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 175
CERBERA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 180
TUSCAN
0-60 in 4.2
top speed is 180
TUSCAN S
0-60 in 3.8 [same as Corvette]
top speed is 190 [5mph faster than Corvette]
Ah, so the Tuscan S beats the Corvette. The Tuscan S also costs 52,500 pounds brand new.
The TR440 costs 80,000 pounds.
Lets compare:
A brand new Corvette Z06 costs 22,500 pounds. Gee. That is a lot less than the Tuscan S or the TR440.
Nope, try again.
Flubflow
07-02-2004, 06:04
Most interstates are 65 or 75. Not 55.
Montana though, has no speed limit. It isn't too far either, and that is where I'll be driving my Corvette for pleasure. Beautiful country side.
In addition, there are several race tracks in the vicinity, and I like going there. Once I have a car, I can finally participate.
Those would be oval racetracks then? with whimpy banked corners so you can go round and round and round and round with your foot on the floor till you throw up?
Flubflow
07-02-2004, 06:16
I don't know a lot about TVR, but I googled:
CHIMAERA
0-60 in 4.8
top speed is 160
TAMORA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 175
CERBERA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 180
TUSCAN
0-60 in 4.2
top speed is 180
TUSCAN S
0-60 in 3.8 [same as Corvette]
top speed is 190 [5mph faster than Corvette]
Ah, so the Tuscan S beats the Corvette. The Tuscan S also costs 52,500 pounds brand new.
The TR440 costs 80,000 pounds.
Lets compare:
A brand new Corvette Z06 costs 22,500 pounds. Gee. That is a lot less than the Tuscan S or the TR440.
Nope, try again.
22,500? That's cheap for a wallowing hunk of iron. See you in a ditch at the first bend then.
I don't know a lot about TVR, but I googled:
CHIMAERA
0-60 in 4.8
top speed is 160
TAMORA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 175
CERBERA
0-60 in 4.4
top speed is 180
TUSCAN
0-60 in 4.2
top speed is 180
TUSCAN S
0-60 in 3.8 [same as Corvette]
top speed is 190 [5mph faster than Corvette]
Ah, so the Tuscan S beats the Corvette. The Tuscan S also costs 52,500 pounds brand new.
The TR440 costs 80,000 pounds.
Lets compare:
A brand new Corvette Z06 costs 22,500 pounds. Gee. That is a lot less than the Tuscan S or the TR440.
Nope, try again.
Retail price I've seen on a Z06 is over $51,000, if a TVR were to be built in a US factory it'd pretty much match the price of the Corvette (and probably be a turned into a bag of crap like most other US built cars) and just to put it all in perspective a 2001 z06 in the UK will set you back £40,000 ... if that were brand new, it'd probably be more expensive that any TVR.
Those would be oval racetracks then? with whimpy banked corners so you can go round and round and round and round with your foot on the floor till you throw up?
Not necessarily. I like long stretches of roads, and that is what I like going to.
Retail price I've seen on a Z06 is over $51,000
If you buy from a retailer without negotiating, you may end up with that price in the United States. However, in Canada, they go for C$40,000 to C$70,000 depending the options you take. But for sake of argument, go with the more expensive option. That translates into less than 35,000 pounds. That is still significantly less.
, if a TVR were to be built in a US factory it'd pretty much match the price of the Corvette
Two points:
- You have no way of proving that. And there is no way you can say that for sure.
- It isn't. So we're stuck with a 50,000 pound British car required to beat a 35,000 American car (with full trimmings).
(and probably be a turned into a bag of crap like most other US built cars)
The Corvette is still beating you by a fair margin.
and just to put it all in perspective a 2001 z06 in the UK will set you back £40,000 ... if that were brand new, it'd probably be more expensive that any TVR
That is because it then has to be imported. Do not add shipping costs. Take the price it costs where it is manufactured. You run the TVR on yourside, and I'll run the Corvette on my side.
And if you want to go to a 2001 Z06, well, then we're dropping the price even more, much less than 35,000 pounds for sure, which is for a brand new 2003 C5.
Wing it anyway you want, the Corvette beats the TVR in terms of price for performance. Regardless, the fact that I took the high end price invalidates my bet because I asked for under 20,000 pounds and I now exceeded that by 75%. It also disqualifies your side.
So I'll go back to a 1998 Corvette. Those are less than 20,000 pounds with excellent performance. Probably not 3.8 sec to 60, but close. I'll have to find the figures. Now pick a car that does 0-60 faster than the 1998 Corvette, as well as have a top speed that is faster.
22,500? That's cheap for a wallowing hunk of iron. See you in a ditch at the first bend then.
You obviously do not have driving skills then if you can't keep a Corvette on the road. It doesn't have the handling abilities of a BMW, but it isn't bad. If other people can keep it on the road, and you can't, you may need some more education on how to drive.
cjmillsnun
07-02-2004, 17:52
You obviously do not have driving skills then if you can't keep a Corvette on the road. It doesn't have the handling abilities of a BMW, but it isn't bad. If other people can keep it on the road, and you can't, you may need some more education on how to drive.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It isn't bad??? Compared to ANY European car, the corvette handles $hite. Compared to a Mustang, it handles $hite. I suppose compared to a Caddilac it handles well.
Anyway, I take it your into Drag racing. Again, boring
cjmillsnun
07-02-2004, 18:01
If you buy from a retailer without negotiating, you may end up with that price in the United States. However, in Canada, they go for C$40,000 to C$70,000 depending the options you take. But for sake of argument, go with the more expensive option. That translates into less than 35,000 pounds. That is still significantly less.
Two points:
- You have no way of proving that. And there is no way you can say that for sure.
- It isn't. So we're stuck with a 50,000 pound British car required to beat a 35,000 American car (with full trimmings).
The Corvette is still beating you by a fair margin.
That is because it then has to be imported. Do not add shipping costs. Take the price it costs where it is manufactured. You run the TVR on yourside, and I'll run the Corvette on my side.
And if you want to go to a 2001 Z06, well, then we're dropping the price even more, much less than 35,000 pounds for sure, which is for a brand new 2003 C5.
Wing it anyway you want, the Corvette beats the TVR in terms of price for performance. Regardless, the fact that I took the high end price invalidates my bet because I asked for under 20,000 pounds and I now exceeded that by 75%. It also disqualifies your side.
So I'll go back to a 1998 Corvette. Those are less than 20,000 pounds with excellent performance. Probably not 3.8 sec to 60, but close. I'll have to find the figures. Now pick a car that does 0-60 faster than the 1998 Corvette, as well as have a top speed that is faster.
As you have gone for a used car, so shall I....
A Lotus Carlton 0-60 5.2 seconds (proven - not manufacturers BS) top speed - manufacturers 176, tested - 180 (but ran out of road, can go faster). Available for 15-25k. Also this is a 5 seater family saloon, not a 2 seater sports car.
I suspect I have got close with this.
paulyoung666
07-02-2004, 18:30
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It isn't bad??? Compared to ANY European car, the corvette handles $hite. Compared to a Mustang, it handles $hite. I suppose compared to a Caddilac it handles well.
Anyway, I take it your into Drag racing. Again, boring
sorry mate , i would like to ask you a question , have you ever been to a drag racing meeting ???????????? , if you have then fair enough you can comment , if you aint then you cant , it is wicked racing :cool:
Flubflow
07-02-2004, 19:16
You obviously do not have driving skills then if you can't keep a Corvette on the road. It doesn't have the handling abilities of a BMW, but it isn't bad. If other people can keep it on the road, and you can't, you may need some more education on how to drive.
No its not me who has to keep a Corvette on the road. I'm the one in front of you just past the bend in a real car phoning for an ambulance for you and a wrecker truck for your dragster.
I'd rather take my 25+ years driving experience over your 4 to 5 years thank you.
cjmillsnun
07-02-2004, 19:41
sorry mate , i would like to ask you a question , have you ever been to a drag racing meeting ???????????? , if you have then fair enough you can comment , if you aint then you cant , it is wicked racing :cool:
Yes, I have been to a drag racing meeting. I went to Santa Pod, I didn't enjoy it. I have also been to Rockingham (an oval), and didn't enjoy that. I have been to Donnington to watch the BTCC. I have also watched many Rally stages, the Goodwood Festival of Speed, Le Mans and been to Magny Cours to watch the French GP. I don't get the thrill of watching cars going fast in a straight line, or round an oval. I prefer something which shows drivers thrashing it out over challenging courses of more than 1/4 mile.
cjmillsnun
07-02-2004, 19:51
Montana though, has no speed limit.
Sorry Jerrek, the Speed limit for Montana is 75MPH, see here (http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/state_laws/speed_limit_laws.htm)
paulyoung666
07-02-2004, 19:59
Yes, I have been to a drag racing meeting. I went to Santa Pod, I didn't enjoy it. I have also been to Rockingham (an oval), and didn't enjoy that. I have been to Donnington to watch the BTCC. I have also watched many Rally stages, the Goodwood Festival of Speed, Le Mans and been to Magny Cours to watch the French GP. I don't get the thrill of watching cars going fast in a straight line, or round an oval. I prefer something which shows drivers thrashing it out over challenging courses of more than 1/4 mile.
fair comment and btw i wasnt having a 'pop' :)
It's horses for courses, I prefer manual but I have enjoyed driving several automatics. :)
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
It isn't bad??? Compared to ANY European car, the corvette handles $hite. Compared to a Mustang, it handles $hite. I suppose compared to a Caddilac it handles well.
Anyway, I take it your into Drag racing. Again, boring
Have you ever driven a Corvette?
As you have gone for a used car, so shall I....
A Lotus Carlton 0-60 5.2 seconds (proven - not manufacturers BS) top speed - manufacturers 176, tested - 180 (but ran out of road, can go faster). Available for 15-25k. Also this is a 5 seater family saloon, not a 2 seater sports car.
I suspect I have got close with this.
Close, but no cigar. 5.2 is a lot, a LOT worse than 3.8. Manufactured top speed states only 176, which is 9 under the Corvette's top speed (once again, manufacturer)
No its not me who has to keep a Corvette on the road. I'm the one in front of you just past the bend in a real car phoning for an ambulance for you and a wrecker truck for your dragster.
I'd rather take my 25+ years driving experience over your 4 to 5 years thank you.
Well, it seems YOU can't handle and keep a Corvette on the road, but thousands others can. I think it is YOUR driving skills than need tuning, because it is nowhere as horrible as you're making it out to be. It must be the old age. :rofl:
Yes, I have been to a drag racing meeting. I went to Santa Pod, I didn't enjoy it. I have also been to Rockingham (an oval), and didn't enjoy that. I have been to Donnington to watch the BTCC. I have also watched many Rally stages, the Goodwood Festival of Speed, Le Mans and been to Magny Cours to watch the French GP. I don't get the thrill of watching cars going fast in a straight line, or round an oval. I prefer something which shows drivers thrashing it out over challenging courses of more than 1/4 mile.
And as long as you realize others might not share your hobby, everthing is fine. It just so happens I *do* like 1/4 mile and 1/2 mile races.
Well a Zonda is rather nice, but I suppose an entry price of $580.000 rules it out.
Shame.:naughty:
Sorry Jerrek, the Speed limit for Montana is 75MPH, see here (http://www.hwysafety.org/safety_facts/state_laws/speed_limit_laws.htm)
Funny, because two years ago I was there and they haven't changed all of it.
http://www.thom.org/photos/MTspeedlimit.jpg
And if they did get a speed limit, I'll just stick with race tracks, or take my car up north. Or hope that the new legislation in Ontario will remove the speed limit.
cjmillsnun
07-02-2004, 20:54
Close, but no cigar. 5.2 is a lot, a LOT worse than 3.8. Manufactured top speed states only 176, which is 9 under the Corvette's top speed (once again, manufacturer)
You are talking about a 2004 Corvette, NOT a 1998 Corvette! Also the same engine in a European 2 seater sports car???
and BTW yes I have driven a Vette, and believe me, compared to any European car they DO NOT HANDLE!
You are talking about a 2004 Corvette, NOT a 1998 Corvette! Also the same engine in a European 2 seater sports car???
Then show me the car! PLEASE! That is what I've been asking!! Name a car than is under 20,000 pounds, European if you want, that can beat the Corvette in acceleration and top speed.
1998 Corvette: 0-60 in 4.7s, top speed is 175 mph
and BTW yes I have driven a Vette, and believe me, compared to any European car they DO NOT HANDLE!
I believe I've said that too, but you seem to be incapable of recognizing a Corvette is actually capable of making turns, beliefe it or not. Will you agree with me? Good. Lets move on. A Corvette's handling may not be the best, but it is by no means so bad as you're making. If it is, then it seems you are incapable of driving a Corvette.
Secondly, you refuse to acknowledge that someone can actually like something else--something you don't seem to like. You do not hear me dissing you for liking to take corners. But up to now, you, and others, have been dissing me constantly because I prefer straight stretches of roads, acceleration, and top speed.
So please. I do like straight stretches, (no I don't particularly care to go around a 150 degree turn), acceleration, and having a fast top speed. If you don't, thats fine with me too, but at least recognize that I am not the same and that I am allowed (at least in Canada) to have a different opinion than you.
And lastly, I do like the Corvette for its pure performance. I've yet to see a car in the price range of the Corvette beat it in terms of performance.
carlingman
08-02-2004, 02:41
Sorry if I appear to be losing the plot here.
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
Why, what possible gain can be achieved other than showing off, you cannot be going anywhere on unpopulated roads and achieving the top speeds and I am guessing here but surely they have a speed limit on the interstate.
I drive over here in GB and acceleration gets me nowhere, well other than embedded in the bumper of the slow driver in front of me for general day to day driving.
I fail to see how having that kind of acceleration does anything - remember you can only drive on single lane roads as fast of the person of in front of you unless you overtake when it is safe to do so.
Yes, but you're never going to do 185mph on any road so why not just buy a normal car instead of a silly penis extension?
Exactly well said.
Can I ask Jerrek, if for instance you were travelling at 150 plus on what you think is an unpopulated road or even on the interstate how you would feel if a child or adult stepped out, as at that speed no doubt if you hit them or you veered off the road yourself both you and them would be killed instantly.
Could you live with that on your mind.
I think not.
If speed is what your after take it to the track where it is controlled and the only person in danger is yourself.
And if that is the case just to get a thrill at that kind of speed then I fail to see why you would need your own car to total so it would be better to use theirs.
:)
carlingman
08-02-2004, 03:09
Keyword: racetrack
I don't particularly care for twisty roads. I want to do 185 mph on the interstate. Neither do I care for 50+ mpg, or having a little dinky engine. I want to accelerate to 60 in 3.8 seconds, and get to the top speed fast.
Whats this then a climb down as you clearly stated you want to 185 plus on the interstate or is this slang for race track ???
:rofl: :rofl:
Nope, I still want to do it, but you seemed to forgot that there exists racetracks too.
Download Failed (1)
Flubflow
08-02-2004, 03:49
Nope, I still want to do it, but you seemed to forgot that there exists racetracks too.
http://home.cogeco.ca/~johannj/net_stuff/honda.jpg
But after you've fuelled up your Corvette for the umpteenth time that week you couldn't even afford a bottle of Mountain Dew.
Corvette, 18mpg in the city, and 25mpg on the highway. That is 23 (or 32) miles per pound of gas.
How much do you get with your econobox?
Flubflow
08-02-2004, 04:51
Corvette, 18mpg in the city, and 25mpg on the highway. That is 23 (or 32) miles per pound of gas.
How much do you get with your econobox?
Six shovels of coal to the mile.
Heres a related clip I think some of you will find funny......
you may need DivX 5.0.3 to view, its 5.67mb so may take a while to download if your not on Broadband.......
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/zrbyte/stuff/American%20Car.avi
Right click and select 'save as' then allow it to download and view it once it has finished downloading or it may not work correctly.
EDIT: its a bit suggestive though so dont watch if easily offended :D though it is very funny IMO :D
Sipowicz
08-02-2004, 15:58
Anyone now the specs for a Caterham 7 (Top speed, acceleration etc) ?
Anyone now the specs for a Caterham 7 (Top speed, acceleration etc) ?0-60 in under 4 secs. top speed around 150 mph.
Look here, and click on the blue car, top right for specs.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/showroom/index.htm
cjmillsnun
08-02-2004, 16:34
Then show me the car! PLEASE! That is what I've been asking!! Name a car than is under 20,000 pounds, European if you want, that can beat the Corvette in acceleration and top speed.
1998 Corvette: 0-60 in 4.7s, top speed is 175 mph
OK - You win on acceleration.
I believe I've said that too, but you seem to be incapable of recognizing a Corvette is actually capable of making turns, beliefe it or not. Will you agree with me? Good. Lets move on. A Corvette's handling may not be the best, but it is by no means so bad as you're making. If it is, then it seems you are incapable of driving a Corvette.
I'm not denying it can go around corners, it just can't do it as well as other cars.
Secondly, you refuse to acknowledge that someone can actually like something else--something you don't seem to like. You do not hear me dissing you for liking to take corners. But up to now, you, and others, have been dissing me constantly because I prefer straight stretches of roads, acceleration, and top speed.
So please. I do like straight stretches, (no I don't particularly care to go around a 150 degree turn), acceleration, and having a fast top speed. If you don't, thats fine with me too, but at least recognize that I am not the same and that I am allowed (at least in Canada) to have a different opinion than you.
And lastly, I do like the Corvette for its pure performance. I've yet to see a car in the price range of the Corvette beat it in terms of performance.
Where did I refuse to accept your view? I agree I don't agree with it, but it is your view, and you are entitled to it.
carlingman
09-02-2004, 03:01
Whats this then a climb down as you clearly stated you want to 185 plus on the interstate or is this slang for race track ???
:rofl: :rofl:
Wow thanks Jerrek cannot believe you neg repped for that posting above - cheers not.
Did you notice my smileys or it this a canadian thing.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I'm still waiting for you to point out a car.
And while you're at it, I would like to see how many miles per pound of gas (petrol) you get. I tallied up the Corvette's in a previous post.
And regarding the handling of a Corvette, I did a bit of research. It actually is not at all that bad. In fact, it is very good because of the weight distribution and its low center of gravity.
Keyword: racetrack
Your original keyword was "interstate". And if you apply just a little bit of intelligence, regardless of wether there's a speed limit or not .. my original point stands, only a retard would do the sort of speeds you mention on a public road, but, it's your funeral .. should you fatally maim yourself in a car accident then I doubt many tears will be shed.
Your original keyword was "interstate". And if you apply just a little bit of intelligence, regardless of wether there's a speed limit or not .. my original point stands, only a retard would do the sort of speeds you mention on a public road, but, it's your funeral .. should you fatally maim yourself in a car accident then I doubt many tears will be shed.
So everyone in Germany are retards?
So everyone in Germany are retards?
if they think driving at those speeds are safe, yup they are, damn straight :eek:
Its funny how Germany's accidents per 100,000 people are lower than the United States and the United Kingdom, and they tend to drive a lot faster than us.
Yep. Retards, eh?
Its funny how Germany's accidents per 100,000 people are lower than the United States and the United Kingdom, and they tend to drive a lot faster than us.
Yep. Retards, eh?
isnt germany supposed to have one of the hardest driving test to pass though?
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/a-germdl.html
Adn im sure I read somwhere that you have toretake your test every few years, unlike in this country and the US where you get your license basicly for life. If someone could find a link on that second point to prove me wrong/right I would be grateful.
Its funny how Germany's accidents per 100,000 people are lower than the United States and the United Kingdom, and they tend to drive a lot faster than us.
Yep. Retards, eh?
The Germans have bends in their roads and hense build cars to handle them, unlike your 'corvette' which will be sailing through the air the minute you need to turn the wheel. And as the post above states, the german's actually need to show some degree of skill behind the wheel before being allowed a full license (unlike their American counterparts)
The Germans have bends in their roads and hense build cars to handle them, unlike your 'corvette' which will be sailing through the air the minute you need to turn the wheel.
You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Did you know that a Corvette has a steering wheel?
And as the post above states, the german's actually need to show some degree of skill behind the wheel before being allowed a full license (unlike their American counterparts)
This is not a discussing about the general public, but you dissing me for wanting to drive fast. It just so happens I have had driver's training and in my 5+ years of driving, I've never had an accident. I've done over 30,000 miles too, and like to think I am an above average driver.
Obviously, if you can't handle it, you may want to take a driver's ed course. And if you have issues making a Corvette turn, you may want to redo your license or get extra lessons.
You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Did you know that a Corvette has a steering wheel?
This is not a discussing about the general public, but you dissing me for wanting to drive fast. It just so happens I have had driver's training and in my 5+ years of driving, I've never had an accident. I've done over 30,000 miles too, and like to think I am an above average driver.
Obviously, if you can't handle it, you may want to take a driver's ed course. And if you have issues making a Corvette turn, you may want to redo your license or get extra lessons.
30,000 miles? Is that it? In 16+ years of driving regularly I'm pretty sure I've racked up more than that, I know learner drivers that have done more. And try not to detract too much from the issue you raised, you stated that you want to drive at 180mph on a public highway (interstate), I'd dearly love to see you corner at that speed (in fact, I'd pay good money to watch in on PPV). And *cough* 'drivers training'? we tend to get that as standard in the format of "driving lessons" from qualified instructors, some of us after our driving test go one to do evasive driving courses taught by qualified police instructors, highly doubtful any of us would wish to endanger lives by driving at 180mph, perhaps you should consider only driving your (as yet imaginary) corvette down at Bonneville salt flats .. no corners there, should suit your American style driving perfectly :D
30,000 miles? Is that it? In 16+ years of driving regularly I'm pretty sure I've racked up more than that,
Terrific, considering I've been driving five years.
And try not to detract too much from the issue you raised, you stated that you want to drive at 180mph on a public highway (interstate), I'd dearly love to see you corner at that speed (in fact, I'd pay good money to watch in on PPV).
Maybe you don't know this, but see, you're supposed to slow down when going around a steep corner?
And *cough* 'drivers training'? we tend to get that as standard in the format of "driving lessons" from qualified instructors, some of us after our driving test go one to do evasive driving courses taught by qualified police instructors,
What is your point?
highly doubtful any of us would wish to endanger lives by driving at 180mph, perhaps you should consider only driving your (as yet imaginary) corvette down at Bonneville salt flats .. no corners there, should suit your American style driving perfectly :D
Yep, I like a good stretch of road to test acceleration and performance, something Europeans wouldn't really know about.
And yes, my Corvette is still only a dream, but I'm quite sure I'm going to fulfill it. Whether it be a C3 or C4 or C5 or C6.
cjmillsnun
09-02-2004, 19:37
Its funny how Germany's accidents per 100,000 people are lower than the United States and the United Kingdom, and they tend to drive a lot faster than us.
Yep. Retards, eh?
Er, I have lived in Germany, and Driven in Germany for 2 years. There are speed limits on a lot of autobahns. Also in the de-restricted areas, most people do NOT exceed 120km/h, (75mph) and the people who do are generally retards, as most autobahns are dual carriageways and trucks tend to pull out without looking when they want to overtake, (all trucks over 10 metric tonnes in Europe are Limited to 90km/h - 56mph).
So NO they don't tend to drive a lot faster than us because common sense tells them it is not safe, they are just legally allowed to if they want.
Also the average mileage in the UK is 12,000 a year, so we generally exceed your 30K in 3 years.
lets, see if we did a direct comparison of how many miles per £ worth of UK Petrol
25MP(US GAL) is 30MP(IMP GAL) (admittedly not bad for a large V8)
A UK Gal is approx £3.60 so 30 Miles is £3.60 so 30/3.6 is 8.333333 miles per £
50MP(IMP GAL) , so 50 miles is £3.60 so 50/3.6 is 13.9 miles per £.
City Driving approx 42MP(IMP GAL) so 42/3.6 is 11.666666 miles per £
18MP(US GAL) is 21MP(IMP GAL) so 21/3.6 is 5.833333 miles per £
BTW 50MP(IMP GAL) is 41.63 miles per US Gallon.
and 42MP(IMP GAL) is 34.97 miles per US Gallon.
Care to tell me how far I would go on a £'s worth of Gas from where you come from??
This is not a discussing about the general public, but you dissing me for wanting to drive fast. It just so happens I have had driver's training and in my 5+ years of driving, I've never had an accident. I've done over 30,000 miles too, and like to think I am an above average driver.
Then you should know the dangers of driving fast and avoid it as any sensible advanced driver would do.
As for 30,000 in 5 years :rofl: I do over 30,000 a year just in pleasure driving, mainly on motorways, so I get to see lots of idiots driving at over 100, getting blowouts, going up the back of other drivers who have pulled out, loosing it on bends, generally ending in the odd roll and death.
Course most of these drivers would say "Ah but I've never had an accident and I'm a much better driver than anyone else I know" normally just before something goes wrong...
cjmillsnun
09-02-2004, 20:27
Then you should know the dangers of driving fast and avoid it as any sensible advanced driver would do.
As for 30,000 in 5 years :rofl: I do over 30,000 a year just in pleasure driving, mainly on motorways, so I get to see lots of idiots driving at over 100, getting blowouts, going up the back of other drivers who have pulled out, loosing it on bends, generally ending in the odd roll and death.
Course most of these drivers would say "Ah but I've never had an accident and I'm a much better driver than anyone else I know" normally just before something goes wrong...
I do a similar mileage, and have passed my advanced driving test. Also my experience of ddriving in Germany tell me to be sensible with speed. I too see the idiots you are talking about on a daily basis. I have had accidents, which brought home to me how poor a driver I was, hence I decided to do something about it and joined IAM, and learned to drive (safely not just pass the UK Driving Test). I have to say speed should (mainly) be kept for the race track. However I feel that an increase in the motorway speed limit to 80, strictly enforced would get FAR more respect than the 70MPH limit. Also I feel that advanced driving training (including skid courses, and feeling some of the forces involved in an accident via a simulator) should be a pre-requesite of being allowed to drive on motorways.
This might then educate the a*seholes who populate lane 3 of the motorway.
I am full of respect for the police class 1 drivers, as they are trained to drive safely at speed, and their perception and driving skill is quite literally breathtaking.
cjmillsnun
09-02-2004, 20:53
Terrific, considering I've been driving five years.
Maybe you don't know this, but see, you're supposed to slow down when going around a steep corner?
quite correct, but I can corner safely on a country road at 40-50 (depending on the bend), try that in a vette.
Yep, I like a good stretch of road to test acceleration and performance, something Europeans wouldn't really know about.
Go for it, but to be safe use a dragstrip! (think of other drivers)
And yes, my Corvette is still only a dream, but I'm quite sure I'm going to fulfill it. Whether it be a C3 or C4 or C5 or C6.
Again, go for it, I hope you get it and enjoy it. I didn't but as you say each to their own.
And if you come to Europe, hire one of our cars (complete with Dinky engine - May I suggest a Ford Focus, they handle very nicely) and try some European country roads. You might enjoy it.
I don't understand what point Jerrek is trying to make. He wants us a name a car which is faster 0-60 than his Corvette but doesn't want to accept that handling characteristcs are more important over here.
Fact is, with our petrol prices and our emissions policies we can't stick a 6 litre engine in a car for pure grunt. Coupled with the fact that these cars with such grunt are just terrible at handling, something that might not be important in the US with their big straight roads but is pretty bloomin' vital over here. No point in comparing apples and oranges. Any idiot can stick a massive feck off engine in a car at the expense of handling though.
I did laugh when he said he loves to drive through the country cos it has lovely scenary, at 185mph :)
cjmillsnun
09-02-2004, 22:47
II did laugh when he said he loves to drive through the country cos it has lovely scenary, at 185mph :)
Yep, at that speed, nobody has time to take in the view. Unless you are a few thousand feet in the sky!
At that speed you are likely to become part of the scenary aswell I guess :)
Also the average mileage in the UK is 12,000 a year, so we generally exceed your 30K in 3 years.
Care to tell me how much you did between ages 16 and 21?
City Driving approx 42MP(IMP GAL) so 42/3.6 is 11.666666 miles per £
Care to tell me how far I would go on a £'s worth of Gas from where you come from??
I didn't quite follow what you're saying here. I noted that with a Corvette over here, I will get 23 miles per £1 of gas in the city, and 32 miles on the highway.
How many miles do you get per £1 of gas over there?
Care to tell me how much you did between ages 16 and 21?
Probably about 200,000 miles including what I did on a 50cc moped at 16 (did 600 miles in the first week)
I didn't quite follow what you're saying here. I noted that with a Corvette over here, I will get 23 miles per £1 of gas in the city, and 32 miles on the highway.
How many miles do you get per £1 of gas over there?
Well maybe it's too simple for you...
His car can do 11.6(recur) miles on £1 of fuel priced at £3.6/impGal
If he transported his car to the states, and spent £1 (or what is it now tha the dollar is so weak? $1.80?) on fuel, how far could his car go?
Basically, how much is petrol in the states in £/impGal? (impGal is 4.5456Ltrs)
quite correct, but I can corner safely on a country road at 40-50 (depending on the bend), try that in a vette.
Have a cookie. The Corvette does the Mulsanne Corner at 45.
Go for it, but to be safe use a dragstrip! (think of other drivers)
Yes I will do just that.
And if you come to Europe, hire one of our cars (complete with Dinky engine - May I suggest a Ford Focus, they handle very nicely) and try some European country roads. You might enjoy it.
Well, when I'm in Europe I'll do as Europeans do, but not in a Ford ****it. Perhaps a nice BMW.
Coupled with the fact that these cars with such grunt are just terrible at handling
Gross generalization. Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc., are all bad at handling? I think not.
Probably about 200,000 miles including what I did on a 50cc moped at 16 (did 600 miles in the first week)
So you did 40,000 miles per year, or 3,300 miles per month. That is 100 miles per day.
Right. At 600 miles in your first week, you're not even covering it.
Well maybe it's too simple for you...
His car can do 11.6(recur) miles on £1 of fuel priced at £3.6/impGal
If he transported his car to the states, and spent £1 (or what is it now tha the dollar is so weak? $1.80?) on fuel, how far could his car go?
Basically, how much is petrol in the states in £/impGal? (impGal is 4.5456Ltrs)
But he isn't in the States. I'm trying to gauge where the teeth guy is coming from by telling me I have to fill up my Corvette ever-so-often so that I won't have money for Mountain Dew.
It seems to me, even with my Corvette, I'm getting more than double the milage per £1 of fuel.
So if I can't afford Mountain Dew, you sure as hell can't afford gas even.
(Gas is £0.20 to £0.30 a liter depending where you go. That is £0.91 to £1.37 a UK gallon)
So you did 40,000 miles per year, or 3,300 miles per month. That is 100 miles per day.
Right. At 600 miles in your first week, you're not even covering it.
Ah but that was on a 50cc restricted to 30mph, I think I only managed 2000 miles before I was 17, then I got a car.
100 miles a day? easy, I do 150 to work and back each day.
most saturdays drove down to Brighton, that's about 100 miles round trip including driving round looking for a parking space, oh and going to the marina.
The past 2 years I've slipped a bit, only done 75K
But he isn't in the States. I'm trying to gauge where the teeth guy is coming from by telling me I have to fill up my Corvette ever-so-often so that I won't have money for Mountain Dew.
It seems to me, even with my Corvette, I'm getting more than double the milage per £1 of fuel.
So if I can't afford Mountain Dew, you sure as hell can't afford gas even.
You really have missed the point haven't you?
He's showing you the superior performance against economy that european cars generally have.
For instance, back in 93 I think I worked out I could cross the states for some rediculous amount like £5, how much would it cost your corvette to go from NY to LA?
Course you could bring your corvette over here and see how far you get on £1 of petrol (probably just off the garage forecourt)
carlingman
10-02-2004, 01:32
At the risk of getting another unwarranted red rep from Jerrek.
You say you have been driving for 5 years and your signature says you are 21 ?
Well if that is the case then only the last three years would qualify you as an unsupervised driver shall we say as I believe (correct me if i am wrong) but you cannot get a full licence until 18 years old and periods up until then you have to be accompanied by a fully qualified driver.
So what are the penalties in Toronto then for speeding for example.
What would happen if you were screaming it along the interstate (oops track) and you encountered a newly qualified drive poodling along at say 50 and slammed on the brakes all to avail as the breaking speed at 185 would far out weigh your reaction time.
Lets generalise and say this learner had his qualified driver his wife with him who was over 18 and their well i dont know let generalise again and say his 4 month old baby in the back seat and you slam into the back of them and kill all three and escape yourself (unlikely) could you live with that.
You can be the best driver in the world but it is not going to help in that situation and will never get away from the fact that speed kills unless it is controlled circumstances and then it is not guaranteed as Ayrton Senna is proof of that.
Looking from another aspect then as you say your ultimate goal is for a corvette, jesus what sort of insurance premium is that going to cost you and what gain would you hope to achieve from getting it.
Other than it being a penis extention or a status symbol what gain can this have.
Myself I would like to win the lottery so to speak but not to buy a fast car but to provide a decent standard of living for my family but hey life is life and like most people i realise it is not going to happen and suprisingly like the majority here have to work for it.
My partner has a middle to top of the range Mercedes now and although that is capable of 140 plus it is not this that worries me but the other show offs on the road driving the super cars or even the not so super cars.
You can be the best driver on the road but it is always the areshole in front or behind of you that causes the most worry.
:angel:
(Gas is £0.20 to £0.30 a liter depending where you go. That is £0.91 to £1.37 a UK gallon)
Cheers
So your covette does 23 miles/£, his does 46 miles/£ in the states (if you guys knew how to make proper diesel fuel I could probably beat that)
Ah but that was on a 50cc restricted to 30mph, I think I only managed 2000 miles before I was 17, then I got a car.
100 miles a day? easy, I do 150 to work and back each day.
most saturdays drove down to Brighton, that's about 100 miles round trip including driving round looking for a parking space, oh and going to the marina.
The past 2 years I've slipped a bit, only done 75K
So now it is down to four years and 198,000 miles?
That is 4,125 miles a month, or an average of 133 miles a day (which includes Saturdays and Sundays). Thats even more amazing, and hardly the norm, unless I know even less about the United Kingdom than I think.
Tell me, what good is all that efficiency if you travel 133 miles a day to and from work, compared to less efficiency and I travel 9 miles to work?
You really have missed the point haven't you?
He's showing you the superior performance against economy that european cars generally have.
True, but that wasn't the point. I have already stated that efficiency, while it is nice, isn't really important to me. If I really cared about efficiency I'd buy a hybrid. The point was he was trying to me how I would be unable to afford driving a Corvette, while it seems I get more than double the milage per pound of fuel over here than what you get over there.
For instance, back in 93 I think I worked out I could cross the states for some rediculous amount like £5, how much would it cost your corvette to go from NY to LA?
I'm afraid I do not believe you. Adjusted for the change in the CPI, that would be still under £20 today, and there is no car that will get you accross the United States for that amount.
Course you could bring your corvette over here and see how far you get on £1 of petrol (probably just off the garage forecourt)
I really have no desire to live in England. But I do know that your cars are easier on gas, but, as I've said before, that isn't really important to me. In the meantime, it is cheaper for me to drive a Hummer than it is for you to drive an econobox. :rofl:
(OK OK, I know, our public transportation is the suck [for most part] and that Europe has nice, good, fancy trains and buses. But, I don't use public transportation, and I'd much rather drive my own car. :) )
Our public transport is probably worse than most. I still don't see the point you are trying to make though. That an american car with a massive feck off engine in it is faster 0-60 than a car designed to be both fast in a straight line and round corners ? Bit of a no brainer that.
I can see the attraction of having a car that is really fast 0-60 but not sure I'd want it at the expense of proper handling, since here in the UK we don't really have roads that are massively wide and stretch for hundreds of miles in a straight line.
At the risk of getting another unwarranted red rep from Jerrek.
You say you have been driving for 5 years and your signature says you are 21 ?
Well if that is the case then only the last three years would qualify you as an unsupervised driver shall we say as I believe (correct me if i am wrong) but you cannot get a full licence until 18 years old and periods up until then you have to be accompanied by a fully qualified driver.
Well no, I have been driving since I was 16. I got my full license at 16.
So what are the penalties in Toronto then for speeding for example.
A fine, and perhaps demerit points. Over 160 km/h will get you a subpoena in the City of Toronto municipality.
What would happen if you were screaming it along the interstate (oops track) and you encountered a newly qualified drive poodling along at say 50 and slammed on the brakes all to avail as the breaking speed at 185 would far out weigh your reaction time.
Track? And meet a new driver? Unlikely.
And OK, I'll withdraw my statement of doing 185 mph on the interstate. Ill change it to something lower. Keep in mind, I drive according to my abilities and my feel. I won't exceed what I feel as safe. Doing 140 to 150 however, is very reasonable on the Trans Canada through Saskatchewan (for example).
Lets generalise and say this learner had his qualified driver his wife with him who was over 18 and their well i dont know let generalise again and say his 4 month old baby in the back seat and you slam into the back of them and kill all three and escape yourself (unlikely) could you live with that.
Learner's can't drive on tracks, and neither can they drive on the interstate.
Looking from another aspect then as you say your ultimate goal is for a corvette, jesus what sort of insurance premium is that going to cost you and what gain would you hope to achieve from getting it.
A Corvette's insurance is actually one of the lowest. My friend's dad pays about 80 pounds a month for his insurance on a C5 1998. Admittedly, he has a lot more going for him at the time, but I don't plan on owning a Corvette until I'm 25 and out of the expensive bracket. (over 24 drops you, as well as 10 years of driving experience)
Other than it being a penis extention or a status symbol what gain can this have.
I do not need approval from you. Nor do I need to justify myself to you. However, if you have time, read two books: On a Clear Day you can See General Motors and the biographies of the designers of the Corvette. I have grown to be very fond of the Corvette because I like its shape, its performance, and the people that developed it. Furthermore, it is a very enjoyable car to own, as well as an investment because it will retain its value if you keep it in prime condition (and eventually go up).
Myself I would like to win the lottery so to speak but not to buy a fast car but to provide a decent standard of living for my family but hey life is life and like most people i realise it is not going to happen and suprisingly like the majority here have to work for it.
I don't do lotteries, but I of course want to do the same thing. However, cars and planes are hobbies to me, and owning a Corvette is only a little bit more expensive than owning a minivan (which most families own) and probably cheaper than a SUV (which everyone seems to own over here). It is also a very safe car, and not at all bad for commuting to work every day.
You can be the best driver on the road but it is always the areshole in front or behind of you that causes the most worry.
:angel:
Hence the track.
So now it is down to four years and 198,000 miles?
That is 4,125 miles a month, or an average of 133 miles a day (which includes Saturdays and Sundays). Thats even more amazing, and hardly the norm, unless I know even less about the United Kingdom than I think.
Judging by the numbers of drivers joining me up the M3 each day, I'd say you know very little about the UK
Unfortunatly we don't have a corrupt goverment which relies on funding and back handers from the motor industry so we don't have them lobbying for cheap fuel and unsafe, uneconomical, unenvironmentally friendly cars.
Tell me, what good is all that efficiency if you travel 133 miles a day to and from work, compared to less efficiency and I travel 9 miles to work?
If I worked only 9 miles away I'd cycle :D
When you travel 150 miles on the motorway each day, fuel economy along with power become very important (I'm amazed you don't realise that, you are at college after all aren't you?)
That's why I drive my car, I can cruise along at 2000rpm doing 75mph and have plenty of power should I need it, and still get over 40mpg
Our public transport is probably worse than most. I still don't see the point you are trying to make though. That an american car with a massive feck off engine in it is faster 0-60 than a car designed to be both fast in a straight line and round corners ? Bit of a no brainer that.
Except that some folks here doesn't seem to get that. That was my original point. Corvettes are built for speed and acceleration, and moderate to good handling.
I can see the attraction of having a car that is really fast 0-60 but not sure I'd want it at the expense of proper handling, since here in the UK we don't really have roads that are massively wide and stretch for hundreds of miles in a straight line.
Point taken, but here we do. I'd love to cross Canada in a Corvette. And there you're going again with the "proper handling." It has a more advanced handling system than most of the econoboxes you guys drive over there (or the SUVs we're so fond of).
Judging by the numbers of drivers joining me up the M3 each day, I'd say you know very little about the UK
I see. Well then, all that efficiency you're so proud off gets canceled out because it seems we tend to live a lot closer to our job. I can't say I know anyone that drives more than 30 miles a day to work.
Unfortunatly we don't have a corrupt goverment which relies on funding and back handers from the motor industry so we don't have them lobbying for cheap fuel and unsafe, uneconomical, unenvironmentally friendly cars.
So taxing the bezeesus out of gas is the sign of an uncorrupt government? How do you figure?
And how do you figure this uneconomical and unenvironmentally friendly thing? If you drive more than 130 miles a day on average, do you really want to speak of economical and environmental friendliness?
If I worked only 9 miles away I'd cycle :D
Thats nice, but a wind of -30 and ice and salt on the road that will harm your bike isn't my idea of a commute to work.
When you travel 150 miles on the motorway each day, fuel economy along with power become very important (I'm amazed you don't realise that, you are at college after all aren't you?)
That's why I drive my car, I can cruise along at 2000rpm doing 75mph and have plenty of power should I need it, and still get over 40mpg
So you expend 4 gallons of gas a day, but I would spend less than 1 a day in a Corvette commuting?
Yes. Environmentally friendly for sure.
I see. Well then, all that efficiency you're so proud off gets canceled out because it seems we tend to live a lot closer to our job. I can't say I know anyone that drives more than 30 miles a day to work.
No, its one of the reasons for the economical nature of our vehicles :rolleyes:
So taxing the bezeesus out of gas is the sign of an uncorrupt government? How do you figure?
Perhaps you should look up what corruption means, perhaps that's why it's so rife in the US
And how do you figure this uneconomical and unenvironmentally friendly thing? If you drive more than 130 miles a day on average, do you really want to speak of economical and environmental friendliness?
Ooo I could do it in a gas guzzling corvette and really kill the planet :rolleyes:
Thats nice, but a wind of -30 and ice and salt on the road that will harm your bike isn't my idea of a commute to work.
salt will probably rust your car quicker than a bike (unless you make naff bikes over there too)
And it's not my fault you're a wimp and can't handly a little bad weather :P
So you expend 4 gallons of gas a day, but I would spend less than 1 a day in a Corvette commuting?
Yes. Environmentally friendly for sure.
As I've said, with just 9 miles to work I'd ride a bike or walk, consuming 0 gallons.
Now, how many gallons would a corvette use doing 130miles at an average speed of 70? I use less than 3.
salt will probably rust your car quicker than a bike (unless you make naff bikes over there too)
And it's not my fault you're a wimp and can't handly a little bad weather :P
The alloys used to make new cars here does not rust from the bad weather and the salt. Older cars are vulnerable.
And it isn't just a little bad weather...
As I've said, with just 9 miles to work I'd ride a bike or walk, consuming 0 gallons.
Now, how many gallons would a corvette use doing 130miles at an average speed of 70? I use less than 3.
About 4 U.S. gallons. $5 of gas. Not bad for 130 miles. Yes I know, in a Toyota Echo you will use 9 liters and that will cost $3, but I can afford to pay that premium to drive a nice car.
And you need to quit with that biking thing. You really have no idea what a winter can be like here. :/
Perhaps you should look up what corruption means, perhaps that's why it's so rife in the US
Oh and of course the Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand governments are also all corrupt because the prices are comparable to that of the United States?
Oh and of course the Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand governments are also all corrupt because the prices are comparable to that of the United States?
Again you missed the point :rolleyes:
And OK, I'll withdraw my statement of doing 185 mph on the interstate. Ill change it to something lower. Keep in mind, I drive according to my abilities and my feel. I won't exceed what I feel as safe. Doing 140 to 150 however, is very reasonable on the Trans Canada through Saskatchewan (for example).
:rofl: You're a funny boy.
I've taken this excerpt from a site I found googling for speed limits in Canada, should be of some interest to you, despite what you think there are better drivers than you in Canaduh and they still end up in accidents.
A recent study examined the impact of higher travel speeds on US rural interstates after the repeal in November 1995 of the national speed limit. Researchers found states that had increased their speed limits to 75 mph (120 km/h) experienced a shocking 38 per cent increase in deaths per million vehicle miles than expected, compared to deaths in those states that did not change their speed limits. States that increased speed limits to 70 mph (112 km/h) showed a 35 per cent increase in fatalities.
When you're bombing down the TransCanada Highway at 150mph (or whatever BS speed you're trying to impress us with) and you pass an RCMP car (who couldn't fail to notice you in your jet propelled coffin) how quickly will you agree with us that it's a bad idea?
Bifta, kindly read what I wrote. It is very *reasonable.* Read again. Let me quote what I wrote:
Doing 140 to 150 however, is very reasonable on the Trans Canada through Saskatchewan (for example).
Nowhere, nowhere did I state it was legal. If you can show me where I did, I'd much appreciate it.
I did say it was reasonable speed. It is flat, straight country, good road, and little traffic. You may not know what it means, or maybe you can't imagine it, but it does exist.
As for your "statistics," there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I can show you statistics that showed exactly the opposite.
Bifta, kindly read what I wrote. It is very *reasonable.* Read again. Let me quote what I wrote:
Doing 140 to 150 however, is very reasonable on the Trans Canada through Saskatchewan (for example).
Nowhere, nowhere did I state it was legal. If you can show me where I did, I'd much appreciate it.
I did say it was reasonable speed. It is flat, straight country, good road, and little traffic. You may not know what it means, or maybe you can't imagine it, but it does exist.
As for your "statistics," there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I can show you statistics that showed exactly the opposite.
Now your little rant is over, could you refrain from posting pathetic neg. reps with the swear words starred out? I'm not going to carry on this discussion with you as you are clearly unreasonable yourself and there are hundreds of other threads with the rest of the reasonable members of NTHW I can participate in. Enjoy!
cjmillsnun
10-02-2004, 18:11
So now it is down to four years and 198,000 miles?
That is 4,125 miles a month, or an average of 133 miles a day (which includes Saturdays and Sundays). Thats even more amazing, and hardly the norm, unless I know even less about the United Kingdom than I think.
It is hardly the norm, however, for someone to have clocked up 8000 miles by their 18th is not unusual. Unless you are disabled, you cannot even learn to drive in the UK until you are 17.
Then on average, 12,000 a year.
Tell me, what good is all that efficiency if you travel 133 miles a day to and from work, compared to less efficiency and I travel 9 miles to work?
Some jobs here involve travelling. For example, I was a sales rep, I could easily clock up over 50K a year driving between home, the office and clients.
True, but that wasn't the point. I have already stated that efficiency, while it is nice, isn't really important to me. If I really cared about efficiency I'd buy a hybrid. The point was he was trying to me how I would be unable to afford driving a Corvette, while it seems I get more than double the milage per pound of fuel over here than what you get over there.
I DIDN'T MAKE THAT POINT!,
I tried to make a point about how we need econoboxes. And believe me even Canada and the USA will need them soon. The forecast is that the oil reserves could be scarce in 30 years!
(OK OK, I know, our public transportation is the suck [for most part] and that Europe has nice, good, fancy trains and buses. But, I don't use public transportation, and I'd much rather drive my own car. :) )
I don't use public transport here because it is worse than yours. For example SWT (One of our train companies) has sent a fleet of new trains back because the 50 year old ones are more reliable (and they break down all the time)
cjmillsnun
10-02-2004, 18:21
Doing 140 to 150 however, is very reasonable on the Trans Canada through Saskatchewan (for example).
One word. BULL$H1TE!
Doing 140-150 is not acceptable on ANY public highway.
That just shows what a poor driver you are!
If it was then the Germans would be doing it all the time, and believe me THEY DON'T!
I tried to make a point about how we need econoboxes. And believe me even Canada and the USA will need them soon. The forecast is that the oil reserves could be scarce in 30 years!
They said that 50 years ago. And 30. And 10. And now. I don't believe it. Certain sources say 10 years, others say 30, others say 100.
I don't use public transport here because it is worse than yours. For example SWT (One of our train companies) has sent a fleet of new trains back because the 50 year old ones are more reliable (and they break down all the time)
Then where is all that taxes going? I was under the impression Europe has a superb public transportation system because they levied so much tax on gas.
One word. BULL$H1TE!
Doing 140-150 is not acceptable on ANY public highway.
That just shows what a poor driver you are!
If it was then the Germans would be doing it all the time, and believe me THEY DON'T!
Actually no, I won't believe you, because when I was there I noticed lots of people doing 120+.
So then, we will just have to agree to disagree. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I feel it is reasonable to do 140 on such an empty road, you may not, and I'll honor that opinion.
cjmillsnun
12-02-2004, 17:52
They said that 50 years ago. And 30. And 10. And now. I don't believe it. Certain sources say 10 years, others say 30, others say 100.
Then where is all that taxes going? I was under the impression Europe has a superb public transportation system because they levied so much tax on gas.
Yes France, Germany, Switzerland etc has a great public transport network.
We used to have a fairly good network in the UK, but it's $hite now and getting worse.
No one knows where our taxes are going. But we seem to be paying more and more for less and less. :afire: :afire: :grind: :grind:
Perhaps it time we did this to Mr Blair.. :2up:
cjmillsnun
12-02-2004, 17:55
Actually no, I won't believe you, because when I was there I noticed lots of people doing 120+.
So then, we will just have to agree to disagree. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I feel it is reasonable to do 140 on such an empty road, you may not, and I'll honor that opinion.
Remember they work in km/h over there, 120 is 75MPH
Anyways, I agree that I totally disagree with you :Peace:
Actually no, I won't believe you, because when I was there I noticed lots of people doing 120+.
So then, we will just have to agree to disagree. You have your opinion, and I have mine. I feel it is reasonable to do 140 on such an empty road, you may not, and I'll honor that opinion.
120 is not 185, and when I drove up to Berlin, I never saw ANYONE even remotely approaching the speed you boast you want to do, you put me in mind of a teenager just before he get's his first car, easily excited and generally full of tripe.
SMHarman
16-02-2004, 14:20
I do a similar mileage, and have passed my advanced driving test. Also my experience of ddriving in Germany tell me to be sensible with speed. I too see the idiots you are talking about on a daily basis. I have had accidents, which brought home to me how poor a driver I was, hence I decided to do something about it and joined IAM, and learned to drive (safely not just pass the UK Driving Test). I have to say speed should (mainly) be kept for the race track. However I feel that an increase in the motorway speed limit to 80, strictly enforced would get FAR more respect than the 70MPH limit. Also I feel that advanced driving training (including skid courses, and feeling some of the forces involved in an accident via a simulator) should be a pre-requesite of being allowed to drive on motorways.
This might then educate the a*seholes who populate lane 3 of the motorway.
I am full of respect for the police class 1 drivers, as they are trained to drive safely at speed, and their perception and driving skill is quite literally breathtaking.
There does seem to be far better awareness and lane discipline on the motorways of Europe compared to those of the UK. No middle lane hogs (except for the Parisiens on the routes out of Paris), and in France the ability to cruise at 90mph all day with ease.
Wanting to get anywhere above this speed is generally pointless and a waste of fuel, you'll get there 20minutes earlier (your average speed does not increase by much) and far more fatigued.
SMHarman
19-02-2004, 14:03
A timely piece of news I thought...
'Turbo Rolf' jailed for tailgate deaths of mother and girl
By Hannah Cleaver in Berlin
(Filed: 19/02/2004)
A Mercedes test driver has been jailed for 18 months in Germany for forcing a young woman driver and her two-year-old daughter off the autobahn, killing them.
The deaths and the trial have divided the country between those who argue that speed should be limited on the autobahn, and those who defend the stretches of open road as the last bastion of personal freedom.
Feelings were so high during the trial that the judge, Brigitte Hecking, received death threats when it became clear that she did not see unrestricted speed limits as a fundamental human right. The engineer, Rolf Fischer, 34, was convicted of negligent manslaughter and endangering traffic through negligence and was not granted bail. German courts rarely release the names of convicted criminals.
Fischer, who was nicknamed "Turbo Rolf" by his co-workers at Mercedes for his love of top-of-the-range cars, drove up behind the 21-year-old woman at more than 135mph.
The woman, named only as Jasmin A, was driving her small Kia car. She was so alarmed by the sudden appearance of his dark Mercedes 600 CL in her rear-view mirror that she lost control and swerved off the road. One witness told the court in Karlsruhe: "It looked as if the Mercedes touched the smaller car and shoved it off the autobahn."
The Kia left the road and crashed into a ditch where it smashed into two trees, killing Jasmin and two-year-old Rebecca instantly.
Fischer, who denied being involved in the crash last July, did not stop at the scene, leading police to a months-long investigation to find the car and driver involved.
The judge dismissed initial charges of leaving the scene of an accident, saying she believed Fischer did not see the accident happen; his 500bhp car was already so far ahead that he did not even notice anything wrong.
Fischer sparked suspicion by asking colleagues for days afterwards what they had heard of the investigation.
Ms Hecking also criticised the defendant's colleagues at DaimlerChrysler who denied remembering anything about the morning in question, saying she had never encountered such reluctance from witnesses.
Although many stretches of autobahn in Germany now have speed limits of 75 mph, there remain many areas that have no limits and where high-powered cars can speed without restriction. British drivers often find the speeds and style of driving on the autobahns alarming.
A spokesman for the Automobile Association, Louisa Dean, said yesterday: "We do give advice to drivers going overseas, and particularly to people worried about driving on the autobahns, that they are very, very fast and the people drive fast and furious."
The general advice is to try to stay within comfortable speeds and avoid the fast lane, but Ms Dean confirmed that particularly nervous drivers should consider avoiding autobahns if they were worried about dealing with fast and aggressive drivers.
A DaimlerChrysler spokesman told The Telegraph: "We have today started internal processes which will terminate the man's employment with the company." The rule was that employees must drive carefully and responsibly, she said.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/02/19/wbahn19.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/02/19/ixworld.html
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.