View Full Version : Nthellworld.com
I got your email today telling about NTL's closure of Ntlhellworld.com - I am no longer a regular visitor to the NTHell sites because I chucked them for Sky, BT line and Pipex ADSL.
The fact that they closed Ntlhellworld.com despite many promises of no editorial interference shows what a bunch of w****** this company is! They've made a laughing stock of themselves.
This just helps confirm how right I was to drop NTL - I'll never go back!
downquark1
24-01-2004, 17:19
The spam was not made by this site, and seems to mean the nthellworld.com database was stolen, I expect people will be contacting NTL to request an explanation.
paulyoung666
24-01-2004, 17:20
I got your email today telling about NTL's closure of Ntlhellworld.com - I am no longer a regular visitor to the NTHell sites because I chucked them for Sky, BT line and Pipex ADSL.
The fact that they closed Ntlhellworld.com despite many promises of no editorial interference shows what a bunch of w****** this company is! They've made a laughing stock of themselves.
This just helps confirm how right I was to drop NTL - I'll never go back!
:welcome: to the site my mate , but you are a couple of days late , have a look here (http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6670) and here (http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6708) :)
The spam was not made by this site, and seems to mean the nthellworld.com database was stolen, I expect people will be contacting NTL to request an explanation.
www.visionmatters.co.uk/Strange%20Email.htm
and before I quite possibly get banned for stating the truth, bye all.
www.visionmatters.co.uk/Strange%20Email.htm (http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/Strange%20Email.htm)
and before I quite possibly get banned for stating the truth, bye all.Oh, hi erol... :zzz: (Sorry Neil, Nicked your line. :D )
downquark1
24-01-2004, 17:37
Can we have at least one thread on the matter that doesn't turn to personal attacks and then closed!
This is an NTL customer support forum! Can we start supporting the customers! :afire:
Can we have at least one thread on the matter that doesn't turn to personal attacks and then closed!
This is an NTL customer support forum! Can we start supporting the customers! :afire:
What is the point in speculation its getting absolutely nowhere? I can show an angry face as well. :mad:
downquark1
24-01-2004, 17:50
What is the point in speculation its getting absolutely nowhere? I can show an angry face as well. :mad:
We need an open tread so we can discuss any complaints lodged, many people have asked for an investigation and so far I don't know if anything is going to be done or not.
Has anyone brought this to NTLs attention?
paulyoung666
24-01-2004, 17:57
for pitys sake this is really gonna make the newbie feel welcome , not :rolleyes:
snuffs99
24-01-2004, 18:19
www.visionmatters.co.uk/Strange%20Email.htm (http://www.visionmatters.co.uk/Strange%20Email.htm)
and before I quite possibly get banned for stating the truth, bye all.
He reminds me of UDT. :(
snuffs99
24-01-2004, 18:22
Just for the record i am really upset as i didn't get one of those great e-mails and i want one so who ever did send it, if you happen to visit this site and read this post could you please send me one so i can feel a bit more special.
Thanks
:) :) :) :)
Sociable
24-01-2004, 18:59
Sorry to be so late joining this particular debate. I have friends staying for the weekend so have been busy since late on Thursday.
One simple point that interests me is that the wording of the "suspect" e-mail closely follows one which I suggested to Erol should be sent by NTL. This was in a private conversation by phone a week or so back, after he challenged me to give him my number to prove I was in fact who I claimed to be.
During the conversation I suggested the basic message actually as it finally appeared could be the content of an e-mail sent to the .com membership by NTL should a decision be made to not reopen .com and that this would be the only ethical way forward for NTL given the amount of free time many of us had given to effectively help them to do their job.
Although Erol declined my invitation to pass on this request to his contacts in NTL, (Or at least said he did.) I can't help but note the unusual timing of that conversation and then the emails going out so shortly after but at a time when the main .co.uk site was known to be off-line.
Sorry I just can't see anyone here being that stupid to take such a risk and then do so at the one point in time it would be of the least possible advantage to have done so. The timing would, however, have been perfect for both NTL and the other Hell sites.
Donââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t forget the ongoing dispute with Frank and the fact that some people do have a vested interest in causing both disruption to this site and also establishing some kind of "There can't be any smoke without fire" theories about Frank's possible involvement too.
In addition, this e-mail serves more to discredit .co.uk than to help it, so if we are talking †œmotiveà€ it would also help strengthen what appears to be growing links between NTL and a few specific individuals at certain other sites and or make certain other disgruntled ex-members very pleased.
Again I base this comment on my conversation with Erol, as he was very pointed in saying my posting here, rather than at certain other sites, was likely to mean I would not get anywhere with my suggestions about the "Customer Panel" idea.
As always there are two sides to every story and regardless to the outcome I will continue to post here and continue to press for NTL to listen to all of us and start building a true partnership.
The reality is that I doubt we will ever get to know what actually went on with this and to be honest I don't think it really matters that much either way.
IMHO both sides have been at fault throughout the last year or so but that does not matter it is about what happens in the future now not the past.
Anyway that's my 2 cents and sorry I missed the earlier threads.
Florence
24-01-2004, 19:06
Just for the record i am really upset as i didn't get one of those great e-mails and i want one so who ever did send it, if you happen to visit this site and read this post could you please send me one so i can feel a bit more special.
Thanks
:) :) :) :)
You can have mine if you really want one..
I like the last section from 'visionmatters.co.' (link above) ;)
Quote
[Something illegal has occurred here. Data owned by NTL is still in the hands of someone it should not be in the hands of. ] end quote.
The 'hellworld.com' database 'stolen' from Frank?......questionably 'owned by ntl', and still in their hands, pending DPA investigation, I believe.
Quote
[ They have shown they are prepared to use this data. This is serious stuff and it needs a resolution. ] end quote.
Hmmm, now who would benefit most from causing trouble for the 'hell' sites? ;)
Let me think....someone who has the database....illegally....would benefit........no, I give up.
snuffs99
24-01-2004, 19:14
You can have mine if you really want one..
Just knowing that you are willing to give it to me is good enough to make me feel special.
you are an :angel:
THX
Snuffs. ;)
Interesting comments. I still think NTL are t0ssers!
Have .co.uk seen a lot of new members since that email went out?
paulyoung666
24-01-2004, 20:02
Interesting comments. I still think NTL are t0ssers!
Have .co.uk seen a lot of new members since that email went out?
i dont think that was ever in doubt :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Sociable
24-01-2004, 20:05
Have .co.uk seen a lot of new members since that email went out?
Been a fairly steady increase in numbers all the way through I think, with the two big jumps being on the threat of closure back last june and then a second surge with .com finally closing.
This was one reason I pointed out the "unusual" timing of the e-mail as had it been designed to increase numbers sending it when the link was at best unreliable and at worst completely unavailable made no sense at all.
That said it is true regardless of where the fault lay many would put down a link not working to NTL even if it wasn't. Sadly that's the price companies Like NTL pay for having such a bad reputaion. LOL
One simple point that interests me is that the wording of the "suspect" e-mail closely follows one which I suggested to Erol should be sent by NTL.
Well from my memory of a one to one phone conversation that I assumed to be private I can not recall any similarites between your suggestion that NTL should reopen .com and could do so by mailing all the people who used to use it and this spam email. As for 'wording' of this email - there is not email, only your suggestion one be sent by NTL.
This was in a private conversation by phone a week or so back, after he challenged me to give him my number to prove I was in fact who I claimed to be.
Note the word _private_. Obviously not very private! I insisted on speaking to you on the phone, because I thought you may be serious about trying to help users work constructively with NTL to everyones benefit. After my expereinces with these boards a real world phone number is now the only way I will deal with such things as I have learnt the hard way about the lenghts people will go to, to decieve using annonimity as a cloak.
During the conversation I suggested the basic message actually as it finally appeared could be the content of an e-mail sent to the .com membership by NTL should a decision be made to not reopen .com and that this would be the only ethical way forward for NTL given the amount of free time many of us had given to effectively help them to do their job.
Well thats not my memory at all. My memory is that you claimed to be one of the biggest thorns in the .co.uk teams side and consistent critics. It is my memeory that you stated you would prefer that NTL reopen .com - with a different moderator team and suggested that they could email the old users asking them to sign up to the re opened .com site.
Although Erol declined my invitation to pass on this request to his contacts in NTL, (Or at least said he did.) I can't help but note the unusual timing of that conversation and then the emails going out so shortly after but at a time when the main .co.uk site was known to be off-line.
I pointed out that if you (or anyone) wanted to suggest things to NTL he could do as I had done in the past - which is to ring the main switchboard number and simply ask to speak to Ashley Grossman. It worked for me. I do not have 'contacts' within NTL. There are a few users of various boards that I comminicate with that are NTL employees. I do bump into various NTL employees at various times during the course of my work but I strenously avoid tainting that work with the stain of what has occured via this and the .com board since it was taken over by NTL.
Sorry I just can't see anyone here being that stupid to take such a risk and then do so at the one point in time it would be of the least possible advantage to have done so. The timing would, however, have been perfect for both NTL and the other Hell sites.
No doubt you could not see a .com mod and NTL employee hacking a rival site either, yet it happened. Or .com lying to NTL (whilst being paid by them) and to user - yet that to happened. The timming was not disadvantageous to this site as the new sign ups clearly show. The site has benefited from the mail out - that is plain. So what advantage has NTL or any other site gained? If the mail did not originate from anyone to do with this site, then one would assume KingPhoneix would be keen to find out who did use his server to send it. Instead he has said nothing and requested the thread asking what he is doing be closed.
Donââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t forget the ongoing dispute with Frank and the fact that some people do have a vested interest in causing both disruption to this site and also establishing some kind of "There can't be any smoke without fire" theories about Frank's possible involvement too.
The ongoing dispute is as likely to explain why the illegal stolen list was used now and not before. Frank has 'threatend' NTL with retaliation over how he was treated in various places. Maybe this is the retaliation? Who knows. What we DO know is that the mail came from an i-web server. The same people (person) that hosts this site.
In addition, this e-mail serves more to discredit .co.uk than to help it, so if we are talking †œmotiveà€ it would also help strengthen what appears to be growing links between NTL and a few specific individuals at certain other sites and or make certain other disgruntled ex-members very pleased.
This email has resulted in an sudden influx of new members for the site. If the team here also manage to convince people that it was sent by someone that is nothing to do with them (and even better to blame NTL or some other enemy) then the sucsess of the mail is total. Why spin out 'it was not sent from i-web' servers if that is untrue and the team here have done nothing wrong? Why supress any discussion of where the mail has come from?
Again I base this comment on my conversation with Erol, as he was very pointed in saying my posting here, rather than at certain other sites, was likely to mean I would not get anywhere with my suggestions about the "Customer Panel" idea.
Again that is not my memory of our _private_ conservation. I pointed out that if someone is _serious_ about building a useful realtionship between NTL and user, then consistent public support of people that have _earnt_ NTL's distrust through lying to them directly, was not the best way to do that. Any constructive and useful link between NTL and users has to be based on trust between the two sides. Posting about and distorting a private phone conversation between us is again not a great way of convincing those within NTL that DO want to build construtvie links between NTL and connected users that you are a suitable person with whom to do so.
As always there are two sides to every story and regardless to the outcome I will continue to post here and continue to press for NTL to listen to all of us and start building a true partnership.
Press all you like to build a true partnership with NTL. As I said on the phone to you, supporting people who have previously lied to NTL when they tried to work in partnbership with them is probably not the best way forward if your wish is genuine.
The reality is that I doubt we will ever get to know what actually went on with this and to be honest I don't think it really matters that much either way.
I would not be so sure about this. Many doubted that we would ever know who hacked NTLH, yet the truth did come out in the end. It is actually no where as easy to hide ones tracks in cyberspace as most people think. False assumptions like everything in email headers is meaningless because it can be spoofed is just one example of this false sense of security. What has occured here is a serious matter and the culprit will no doubt be vigourously persued and there is agood chance they will be found.
The membership has been steadily increasing anyway, I believe, as the name gets around. and more from ntl seek sanctuary.
erol I am growing tired of your cr@p,congratulations you
have just hit my ignore list.
MadGamer
24-01-2004, 20:46
for pitys sake this is really gonna make the newbie feel welcome , not :rolleyes: I agree, why does everyone have a go at the newbies on this site?
The 'hellworld.com' database 'stolen' from Frank?......questionably 'owned by ntl', and still in their hands, pending DPA investigation, I believe.
This is a totaly different situation. The data that was used to mail my account was NEVER owned by Frank. I signed up to .com after the site was bought by NTL. The confusion over the pre buyout ownership data, who owns it and who has control of it is totaly different from the illegal USE of data that can not possibly be owned by the person who sent the mail (unless the you believe the ridiculous notion that it was sent by NTL themselves). It is worth noting that Frank was more than willing to make an extreme fuss over data, when the real world impact was zero or near to zero (have NTL used the pre buyout data in ANY way since Frank left NTL?). People who supported that strong stance seem less concerned about a real world abuse of data, that has resulted in one spam mail already and who knows how this list will be used in the future as long as it is in the hands of the person who sent this mail?
Quote
Hmmm, now who would benefit most from causing trouble for the 'hell' sites? ;)
Let me think....someone who has the database....illegally....would benefit........no, I give up.
The use of this data is an extreme embarassment to NTL - whoever sent it. So anyone with a grudge against NTL would 'benefit' from its sending.
The mail has resulted in an upsurge in new members so that is another beneficary.
If the mail was sent by someone who merely wished to discredit this site there were much better and more obvious ways to do so. A mail out to the .com list saying the mail was from .co.uk and with a classic 'spam' message like cheap viagra would have been a much more effective way for someone with access to the .com list AND access to the i-web servers to discredit the .co.uk site and its team.
The person that sent this mail has a grudge against NTL, access to the .com list of users emails and access to an i-web machine. The obvious suspects do not want to discuss the issue and have clarity to clear their names of any slur. They want everyone to shut up abou it.
If the team here truely have nothing to do with this mail out then no one is keener for this truth to be know. They do not currently however seem to be to interested in the truth.
Does anyone actually care?
I was a member of NTHELLWORLD.COM for about a year, and Joined .CO.UK the first day it was set up, i have been lurking around here for a while, and have followed it all.. The .COM site closing down, the posts by Erol there, and the stuff that has been posted here. There seems to be alot of animosity(sp) between Erol and the Admin of this site, and it appears to me that he is trying to cause them alot of trouble, by posting total bull**** and spouting stuff out of his arse.... trying to stir up even more problems for this site.
I myself have experienced people who do this, I generally tend to ignore them, they get bored.. move on and we all rejoice. Banning such users makes it look like what they are saying is the truth. I recommend just ignoring him, he will soon become bored.....
Tijer
PS: I never got one of those emails either....
Erol you were very boring on .com and you haven't changed your tune.If you feel there is an issue to raise and you don't really trust the word of the domain owner or the admins here then report it to NTL abuse and to any official who might be interested.Please stop badgering the rest of us because we accept what we have been told.If you think the admins and mods here are the instigators of the email then you should take your suspicions to those authorities to whom it should be the responsibilty to do something to investigate it.
The fact that you keep coming here underlines the fact that you don't want to do that because you'd rather sling mud at this site.Just as you did at .com
Incog. :(
I got the mail, but I did not feel the need to ring 999 and request the police.
The way erol was carrying on you would think there had been a murder
or a terrorist attack :eek: ,I dunno what it is but im tired of it and I got sick of his
cr@p on dotcom.I do not post much I just lurk a lot but erol gets up my nose
so he is now on ignore.Now I can go back to happy lurk mode again.
Sociable
24-01-2004, 21:27
I thought long and hard before posting what I did Erol.
Had you not taken it on yourself to "Try" this issue in public, giving this impression as always that you are a disinterested party all the time, I would never have done so.
As a party to a conversation which gave the lie to some of what you maintain I felt obliged to put that part of the record straight, no more nor less than that.
I also simply pointed out, the reality is that there are two sides to every story. This did not say I supported either side but simply that, for me, there was a case for remaining open mended. (Sorry to use that term as I know it is a somewhat alien concept to you were certain situations and individuals are concerned.)
As for your somewhat distorted and selective memory of the conversation we had, this just serves to prove my point, as yet again you choose to try to make yourself out to be an †œalways innocent partyÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šà ¬Ã‚ÂÂ, whilst constantly pi$$ing in other peoples soup.
If nothing else you needed to hear, and I needed to say, that your veiled threats about the consequences of posting here were insulting to both my intelligence and integrity. I do thank you, however, for confirming the essence of what you said in part of your last post.
Press all you like to build a true partnership with NTL. As I said on the phone to you, supporting people who have previously lied to NTL when they tried to work in partnership with them is probably not the best way forward if your wish is genuine.
My posting here is not supporting anyone other than my fellow members just as was the case when I posted on .com
There, as here, I post what I hope is always a well balanced and considered view of any given situation without fear or favour. And yes, as the Mods and Admins can confirm, that often includes challenging or questioning the views of Admins and Moderators just as much as any other users of the site.
On the factual differences in our respective recollection of the discussion, and just for absolute clarity, this is what I actually said.
I would far prefer that .com re-opened but, in the event that is not possible, then an email very much along the lines of that under dispute now should be sent to all the members of the .com community by NTL for all the reasons discussed during our chat and touched on in my last post.
That is what I said then, what I say now and, your personal vendetta against certain individuals connected with the administration of this site, has nothing to do with that simple truth.
Please do not judge others by your own standards as it has a tendency at best of being seen as a case of "Pot calling Kettle Black", and at worst as simply unprofessional, childish and downright insulting.
homealone
24-01-2004, 21:31
As has been said, there have been exploits on all the 'hell' sites, during the course of their existence.
As I understand it this latest one has been investigated by the data centre and found not to have originated from this site. The implication it could have caused the sites closure is pretty scary.
The e-mail headers do imply I-Web Solutions servers were involved in the mailshot, but as it co-incided with an outage, the full implications are unclear.
All the rest, afaik, is speculation.
I will state an interest, in that I am one of King Phoenix's customers, before I say, that I believe he has done every thing possible to contain this situation and I understand why he might not want to go 'into detail' on that.
and it appears to me that he is trying to cause them alot of trouble, by posting total bull**** and spouting stuff out of his arse.... trying to stir up even more problems for this site.
It is a fact that the email was sent.
It is pretty clear the list of people it was sent to was from an NTL owned list of ex .com members.
It is a fact that the email arrived on my machine haveing come via an i-webserver.co.uk machine.
It is a fact that it has been claimed that the mail did not come from an i-web machine, when it did.
It is a fact that the thread were the claim that it did not come from an i-webserver machine was closed shorlty after I posted that it most definately did and why such evidence in the headers was un fakeable.
It is a fact that this mail out severs the purposes of anyone who wants to embarass NTL.
It is a fact that the mail has resulted in new memeber sign ups here.
Any other bull I have missed out there?
The person that sent the mail to the .com list, or part of it, is responsible for this 'trouble' here not me. I am trying to get at the truth. If the truth exonerates the people who currently are the obvious and logical main suspects then I would be more than happy with that. If it shows that the .com list has been used by one of the team here then so be it. Either way all I want is the truth. Nothing more and nothing less.
Please stop badgering the rest of us because we accept what we have been told.
Well what you believe is a phyisical impossibility. If you can explain to me how my smtp sever can recieve a mail, thinking it is comming from IP address 65.75.139.40 when in fact it has come from a different machine AND yet get and acknowledgement from machine 65.75.139.40 for a TCP packet it knows nothing about - then I might accept what you believe.
The email came from machine 65.75.139.40. You can believe what you like but the fact is it came from that machine. No ifs, no buts. It's not opinion its just the reality.
If you think the admins and mods here are the instigators of the email then you should take your suspicions to those authorities to whom it should be the responsibilty to do something to investigate it.
The fact that you keep coming here underlines the fact that you don't want to do that because you'd rather sling mud at this site.Just as you did at .com
What makes you think I have not done so? I came here because the original mail promoted this site. I commented on KingPhoneix's post because he suggested that the mail did not come from one of his severs and it did, without any doubt possible - to anyone who knows anything about email and how the internet works (which presumable his web hoster do?).
I notice that people keep saying report it to NTL - just a small warning that this could cause its own problems - there is little doubt that the rogue e-mail did come from the "hawk" server [via a stored list on someones i-web account] - the headers show this path and if NTL decided to investigate it, they will see this, and *could* decide to block further e-mails from that IP address to their mail servers - which I imagine would be a bit inconvienient for this and other sites hosted by i-web.
downquark1
24-01-2004, 21:43
Erol can we stop the speculation - report it to NTL, threaten legal action for all I care, get back to us when you do and then when they have a result.
If you want to prove that the mods are evil and only following their interests then get the evidence and investigation FIRST, please end the speculation.
The use of this data is an extreme embarassment to NTL - whoever sent it. So anyone with a grudge against NTL would 'benefit' from its sending.
Really, is it of extreme embarrassment to ntl though? And have you questioned them as to their integrity, as you are now questioning this site’s integrity, and us.
The obvious suspects do not want to discuss the issue and have clarity to clear their names of any slur. They want everyone to shut up about it.
Since you imply that this site are 'the obvious suspects', it follows that ntl are not the obvious suspects, and are therefore not of 'extreme embarrassment' as you said. It would also follow, that were ntl involved, and since we would be the 'obvious suspects', then ntl would have everything to gain.
I rest my case.
Florence
24-01-2004, 22:01
Its time to wait for replys from data protection and NTL both have been notified and Frank was quite happy to give the name that it needed sending to at DPA.
Now I am not getting involved in anymore speculation and think that if others also stop speculating and wait for results things will be clearer.
I rest my case.
and a very weak case it is.
This is an embarassment to NTL because the list of former .com users emails details was their responsibility to protect and ensure it was not obtain by people who misuse it, which has apparently failed to do. It is nothing to do with if they sent the mail or not. Whoever sent it, it is emabrassing to NTL.
The team here are the main suspects, not because I want it to be that way but because it is just the way it is when you consider the known facts.
1. The mail promoted this site.
2. Whoever sent the mail must have access to the .com list of memebers emails. The team here had such access in the past
3. Whoever sent the email must have access to an i-webserver machine. This site is hosted on a i-webserver machine
4. Whoever sent this mail must have been aware of the embarassment it would couse NTL. Those running this site have know grudges against NTL.
This does not mean they did it but it DOES mean they are the most likely suspects in any consideration. That is just straight forward common sense.
homealone
24-01-2004, 22:26
and a very weak case it is.
This is an embarassment to NTL because the list of former .com users emails details was their responsibility to protect and ensure it was not obtain by people who misuse it, which has apparently failed to do. It is nothing to do with if they sent the mail or not. Whoever sent it, it is emabrassing to NTL.
The team here are the main suspects, not because I want it to be that way but because it is just the way it is when you consider the known facts.
1. The mail promoted this site.
true - but it may have been a typo;)
2. Whoever sent the mail must have access to the .com list of memebers emails. The team here had such access in the past
true - but I agree with those who say the info would have been used sooner?
3. Whoever sent the email must have access to an i-webserver machine. This site is hosted on a i-webserver machine
true - I-Web Solutions are an hosting service - anyone can buy access - I do....
4. Whoever sent this mail must have been aware of the embarassment it would couse NTL. Those running this site have know grudges against NTL.
true & no comment ;)
This does not mean they did it but it DOES mean they are the most likely suspects in any consideration. That is just straight forward common sense.
a suspect, true , 'most likely' is not true - imo:p
MadGamer
24-01-2004, 22:33
I was a member of www.nthellworld.com (http://www.nthellworld.com) up untill this site started. I have to say that the threads on that site wern't that interesting.
I was a member of www.ntlhellworld.com up untill this site started. I have to say that the threads on that site wern't that interesting.
The threads over there were hardly any different to over here considering most of the membership from there consisted of the current membership here, no-one changed their posting styles when they moved.
and a very weak case it is.
This is an embarassment to NTL because the list of former .com users emails details was their responsibility to protect and ensure it was not obtain by people who misuse it, which has apparently failed to do. It is nothing to do with if they sent the mail or not. Whoever sent it, it is emabrassing to NTL.
The team here are the main suspects, not because I want it to be that way but because it is just the way it is when you consider the known facts.
1. The mail promoted this site.
2. Whoever sent the mail must have access to the .com list of memebers emails. The team here had such access in the past
3. Whoever sent the email must have access to an i-webserver machine. This site is hosted on a i-webserver machine
4. Whoever sent this mail must have been aware of the embarassment it would couse NTL. Those running this site have know grudges against NTL.
This does not mean they did it but it DOES mean they are the most likely suspects in any consideration. That is just straight forward common sense.
No offense erol, but this is getting really tedious, I'm sure it doesn't have as much of a negative effect on your day to day routine as the impression you're giving infers, it's not like they've stolen your credit card number.
This does not mean they did it but it DOES mean they are the most likely suspects in any consideration. That is just straight forward common sense.
And of course you aren't willing to go through proper channels, get ALL the facts, then wait for the publishing of the official investigation's findings are you, because that just wouldn't stir things up enough for you now would it?
I make it one of my daily tasks to try not to swear these days but can anyone else who is BORED ****LESS with this subject please say "aye"......
Yes I know that certain people can be very ferret-like when it comes to tenaciously following their cause but posting the SAME thing.....OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER and OVER again on here tonight, a saturday night, is hardly the way to get anything done or recruit sympathisers (if that indeed is the intention).
Oh yeah - I forgot to add :zzz:
downquark1
24-01-2004, 23:08
OK erol you've made your points, they will be taken into consideration, unless you have any more ideas, developments or NTL reports there is no need to repeat or rephrase them.
Thank you
PS: this is not an invitation to close the thread.
is hardly the way to get anything done or recruit sympathisers (if that indeed is the intention).
I have no interest in 'recruiting sympathisers'. My only interest is the truth about what has happened here. If people go around repeating OVER and OVER and OVER that the world is flat I am liable to counter it with the fact that the world is round (over and over). The only cause here is the truth, not a cause you have much interest in perhaps, historicaly or now.
I did not post the email in question, I posted a thread in _response_ to it.
I did not propagate the incorrect statement that the mail did not come from an i-webserver machine, I merely responded to it.
Florence
24-01-2004, 23:10
But guys all you have to do is put him on ignore. My sympathies to the Admins and mods who will not be allowed this peaceful privilege
Sociable
24-01-2004, 23:12
Aye :zzz:
Time for a fresh topic methinks.
Maybe we could ask Erol how his breach of patent case is going with Roche for his constant impersonation of their product "Mogadon" given how many people he is managing to put to sleep today. :)
OK erol you've made your points, they will be taken into consideration, unless you have any more ideas, developments or NTL reports there is no need to repeat or rephrase them.
Thank you
PS: this is not an invitation to close the thread.
It is true that I have made my points now. I will not repeat or rephrase them any more. I may however _respond_ to posts about me or to those the repeat previous incorrect statements made previously.
Thank you downquark for a reasonable, non personal post. I will do my best to meet your request.
Maybe we could ask Erol how his breach of patent case is going with Roche for his constant impersonation of their product "Mogadon" given how many people he is managing to put to sleep today. :)
Eh???
For the first time, I really wish I didn't have to say that's "off-topic"....
It is true that I have made my points now.
Thank you.
I will not repeat or rephrase them any more
Thank you sir.
I will do my best to meet your request.
Thank you sir.
But guys all you have to do is put him on ignore. My sympathies to the Admins and mods who will not be allowed this peaceful privilege
Hear,hear except everybody keeps chuffing well quoting him left right and s*dding everywhere. :mad:
So why the heck don't you ALL put him on ignore then you won't need to reply to him or read another word he types:rolleyes:
Incog. :(
That would spoil the fun ;) It's certainly brightened my evening watching him die a death in here.
That would spoil the fun ;) It's certainly brightened my evening watching him die a death in here.
It won't stop him though.The only way that will happen is if we all ignore him together and he gets bored with being ignored because he has no audience or he gets banned.
Incog. :)
At least not an audience at this site.
Since erol didn't grasp my case, has no real case of his own, and as these very posts are an example of just part of the disruption that can be caused by an outside party, the obvious suspect is ntl,....I will say 'aye' to Russ (I'm now bored)....and for Erol to go to ntl to grill them for some answers.
carlingman
25-01-2004, 02:58
Well without wishing to take sides on this, however personally I feel Erol has raised some valid points that need answering.
Ok so maybe this forum cannot answer them as clearly they deny it being something that was sent from their hosts etc and investigations have been carried out.
From my own perspective I was a member over at .com long before NTL bought the site and at that time Frank owned the database yet I still received the e-mail etc.
So deducing from this somebody has sold out or hacked the members list.
Now at the risk of sounding like a supporter Erol raises some valid points which no doubt many would like answered but instead of helping or assisting the situation many here seem to don the brush of troublemaker and then the Admins here jump in on the band wagon.
Letââ‚ ¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s remember for a moment here what happened on .com that most of the very same Admin/Mods here deceived the members while all along taking NTLs money by way of payment for moderating the site when all along they putting back ups in place to move here.
Now I am not flaming here as I have accepted the current teamâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s reasons for doing this.
There were at the time of .com certain Mods/Admin who abused their powers by putting their jack boots on jumping down on anyone who was remotely critical of the site which then fast tracked the idea of closure to NTL as the constant closing of threads was becoming a joke as far as NTL were concerned and the site was no longer being taken serious.
I thought and still do think it was wrong of the team there at the time to single out individuals like Erol and blame him and others for the closure.
Some of the Mods/Admin had contributed in a certain way to single out certain individuals and even name them at one point which was bang out of order when the Mods/Admin themselves were happily contributing to the demise of a site they were being paid to moderate etc.
Smacks a bit of double standards but now it seems to me they are adopting the same attitude here trying to single out people for stirring up the cauldron in an attempt to get to the truth of how this e-mail originated.
Now then are we going to see the same effect here I ask, denials all around until the bubble bursts and they have to come clean, well I hope not in this case but you never know?
As I have said above and I will say again this is my personal opinion and I am not flaming anyone here as I have accepted the current teamâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s reasons for setting this site up and think up to now the site has become fair more successful than .com ever was in certain aspects.
Remember the reasons posted by Russ D for the closure of .com - ntl and only ntl.
They let the members down, they let the team down, low morale amongst the team etc, tensions built, but most of all they let Frank down, their own employee.
Also I thought Frank signed an agreement, a legal and binding contract, with NTL that any personal user info in the .com forum before the date of sale, belonged to Frank.
Yet if that was the case how did members registered before that date receive the mentioned e-mail.
My guess is NTL denied Frank access to this database and they have breached this contract with Frank and have access to information and personal information that they shouldn't have access to.
Over at .com they could not cope with people who even got near to the truth, and that to me was one of the reasons it closed.
People were subjected to attack and then fobbed off when they criticised any of the Mod/Admin Team.
I guess like many here I am trying to remain positive due to all the recent revelations.
But in a nutshell I am feeling in general let down by the Mod/Admins here and expect it will be a long time before any type of trust can be re-built.
One thing I have noticed though as well as the hatred for NTL, a lot of the current team have fetched across with then from .com is the baggage and persecution of members such as Erol.
There were at the time of .com certain Mods/Admin who abused their powers by putting their jack boots on jumping down on anyone who was remotely critical of the site which then fast tracked the idea of closure to NTL as the constant closing of threads was becoming a joke as far as NTL were concerned and the site was no longer being taken serious.
Ironically at this time NTL were pulling out all the stops to snoop and try and find out if the current team at the time were trying to assist the sites closure while they were setting up this one but it was all to no avail and was a pretty well kept secret.
I thought and still do think it was wrong of the team there at the time to single out individuals and blame them for the closure, they have contributed in a certain way but to single out certain individual and even name them at one point was bang out of order when they themselves were happily contributing to the demise of a site they were being paid to moderate etc.
One thing I have noticed though as well as the hatred for NTL, a lot of the current team have fetched across with then from .com is the baggage and persecution of members such as Erol.We have done no such thing, we have moved on certain individuals want to carry on their personal vendetta.
There were at the time of .com certain Mods/Admin who abused their powers by putting their jack boots on jumping down on anyone who was remotely critical of the site which then fast tracked the idea of closure to NTL as the constant closing of threads was becoming a joke as far as NTL were concerned and the site was no longer being taken serious.Well I'm not being funny carlingman but I closed three threads of yours on .com because you used to come on dead late as you normally do, asking questions that had already been asked in previous earlier threads in each of one of the three threads you had asked the same question. I cannot honestly see the point in that and so I did my duty and tided up the forums as necessary.
Ironically at this time NTL were pulling out all the stops to snoop and try and find out if the current team at the time were trying to assist the sites closure.We could not of assisted ntl in a decision they had already made before any such decision on creating this place existed.
Now I am not flaming here as I have accepted the current teamâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s reasons for doing this.Okay, but you then say...
But in a nutshell I am feeling in general let down by the Mod/Admins here and expect it will be a long time before any type of trust can be re-built.Which is I'm sorry to say, full of contradiction. :erm:
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