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Escapee
09-01-2004, 16:41
first of all apologies if this has allready been brought up, I have not seen it on this site or found any reference with my search on the net.

I understand from 2 newspapers, one being the daily express that ntl directors have just awarded themselves millions in bonuses as a big pat on the back for the hard work they did by getting themselves out of chapter 11.

This is not old news as it was apparently announced on Monday/Tueday.

Has anyone else heard this?

I was also wondering if they were going to extend the bonuses for the guys and gals further down the ladder that also worked hard to get the company back on track!

Neil
09-01-2004, 16:45
I've not heard anything Escapee.

Escapee
09-01-2004, 16:49
I've not heard anything Escapee.

Saw it with my own eyes today in Tuesdays? Daily Express. Apparently it has not gone down well amongst many employees. I was told it was brought up in a meeting yesterday to ask if bonuses were being extended right down to the bottom and the bosses in the meeting knew nothing about it.

I met with a few ntl guys today and got to hear a few tales, not to mention ones about the recent offnet freedom and Virgin net problems. :D

Borophil
09-01-2004, 16:57
first of all apologies if this has allready been brought up, I have not seen it on this site or found any reference with my search on the net.

I understand from 2 newspapers, one being the daily express that ntl directors have just awarded themselves millions in bonuses as a big pat on the back for the hard work they did by getting themselves out of chapter 11.

This is not old news as it was apparently announced on Monday/Tueday.

Has anyone else heard this?

I was also wondering if they were going to extend the bonuses for the guys and gals further down the ladder that also worked hard to get the company back on track!


Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1116693,00.html

Neil
09-01-2004, 17:04
Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1116693,00.html

What have I always said when it comes to ntl?-The rot starts at the top.

It doesn't seem to matter who's running this bunch of cowboys, all they seem intent on doing is lining their own pockets without giving a flying feck about the customer's whose hard earnt cash is swelling their coffers.

Nice move ntl, I'll bet all the people you made redundant will really appreciate it. :2up:

Escapee
09-01-2004, 17:09
Is this what you're looking for?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,1116693,00.html

Thanks for that, I didn't think anyone was going to believe me!

The ntl guys said for some strange reason it has not been announced on the ntl Intranet. :rolleyes:

Colin
09-01-2004, 17:16
The ntl guys said for some strange reason it has not been announced on the ntl Intranet. :rolleyes:

Funny that isn't it.

This is really bad. Can imagine them all, sitting in there office knowing that the whole world hates them, and most of their staff are disatisfied with their jobs and their job pay, wondering how they can make themselves look better in everyones eyes.

Thats it give themselves massive bonuses. Can't believe the cheek of these ******s

Neil
09-01-2004, 17:21
Thats it give themselves massive bonuses. Can't believe the cheek of these ******s

I can. :dozey:

th'engineer
09-01-2004, 17:43
I can. :dozey:

Ditto

SMHarman
09-01-2004, 18:33
Hmm - as a PR excercise this is bad, but this has happened because of the share price increase, it's not all NTL cash walking out the door.

Back when they were awarded a defered bonus compensation in shares. Say 200,000 shares. These at the time were valued at $5 each, so this equated to $1M bonus.

Since this point in time the share price has increased fifteen-fold. The shares that have already been awarded are now worth more due to capital gains. 200,000 at $75 now $15,000,000.

Thats why the bonus is huge, they have rewarded the bond holders who supported them out of c.11. Shareholders who saw thier equity diluted by 98% are also seeing a limited return of their capital. If you invested $100 into the pre c.11 firm and ended up with $2 in the post c.11 firm that is now worth 15 times more $30. A significant improvement also.

None of this helps the ee. Does NTL have a sharesave scheme where ee's could benefit in share price increases?

Escapee
09-01-2004, 18:49
Hmm - as a PR excercise this is bad, but this has happened because of the share price increase, it's not all NTL cash walking out the door.

Back when they were awarded a defered bonus compensation in shares. Say 200,000 shares. These at the time were valued at $5 each, so this equated to $1M bonus.

Since this point in time the share price has increased fifteen-fold. The shares that have already been awarded are now worth more due to capital gains. 200,000 at $75 now $15,000,000.

Thats why the bonus is huge, they have rewarded the bond holders who supported them out of c.11. Shareholders who saw thier equity diluted by 98% are also seeing a limited return of their capital. If you invested $100 into the pre c.11 firm and ended up with $2 in the post c.11 firm that is now worth 15 times more $30. A significant improvement also.

None of this helps the ee. Does NTL have a sharesave scheme where ee's could benefit in share price increases?

I think employees that were caught out in the previous share saves would be a little wary, I didn't bother with the sharesave but I think the majority that I interacted with on a day to day basis did take up this offer in the old pre-chapter 11 company, whilst they did not lose money I understand that they could of probably made more in other safer guaranteed investments.
I sold my share options when they were riding at a high after predicting that the company was riding on a crest of bulls**t, many managers and even supervisors were awarded a couple of 1000 share blocks to keep them with the company. These were also an option that they were not allowed to cash in for x amount of years, they saw these shares artificially inflate with the financial and operating reports that the company were giving out. When the shares crashes many of the managers were left close to tears because Knapp had convinced many foolish people that the shares would top $300 within a reasonable time. Many of the managers that were tied to ntl with the golden share handcuffs left shortly after the shares tumbled, muttering under their breath how they had planned to pay off their mortgages and take round the world trips.

ntl may be out of chapter 11 and showing short term financial operating gains, but they are not giving indications that they will be able to sustain their position in the long term. The company is not investing the money currently needed in it's infrastructure, as the people running the show are only interested in milking the cow for every penny. The stories at the grass root level out in the front line are worrying for the long term future, they are suffering in many areas a shortage of arms, legs, skills and enthusiasm.

I wonder how long they will sustain their position, perhaps they are hoping it will last until they are able to merge with Telewest and have another round of redundancies to help keep the shareholders happy with the operating figures.

paulyoung666
09-01-2004, 18:51
same **** different company , the company i work for has made £65 million profit last year , and did we see any of it , no , apparently we should be grateful we have got jobs :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

trebor
09-01-2004, 20:30
the management seem to have convinced the share holders that the company is going places. look at the share price, the NTL bullshat machine is working well. the bonus is a reflection of how well the shareholders think the company is doing. you wait it wont be long before we have bank managers and shareholders logging on to complain about the ntl managements policies ;)

Dee V. Bee
09-01-2004, 23:53
I was given share options as a bonus for working hard but was not allowed to exercise the right for a year, the same year the share price went to bugger all.

Marge
10-01-2004, 00:35
Yep we do get bonuses but I don't think it will be on the same scale :(

asdf
10-01-2004, 00:54
Same happened for one of the top bints where I work. She did a terrible job, so they sacked her with a £100,00 0+ "sorry you didn't do so well" present. All the other top dogs also awarded themselves on the spot bonuses within that region too. Well, hey it's Christmas!

STUPID!

Kipperman
10-01-2004, 15:03
I get really mad when I hear of these fat cat stories, I bet the staff get a 1.1% payrise offer with a shed load of excuses. And was makes me even madder is that the same amount of money would go such a long way to improving the possibly worse customer service since the history of customer service. Maybe they'd be able to answer the phone in under 30 minutes then.
:(

RamJet
10-01-2004, 15:27
I get really mad when I hear of these fat cat stories, I bet the staff get a 1.1% payrise offer with a shed load of excuses. And was makes me even madder is that the same amount of money would go such a long way to improving the possibly worse customer service since the history of customer service. Maybe they'd be able to answer the phone in under 30 minutes then.
:(
I too an not unastonished at the poor customer support service

When I first took an NTL telephone I think the phone support was (a) local and (b) either 24 hours or 6.00am through midnight

Now it's crap

Ramjet :( ^3

lesrose
10-01-2004, 15:29
Hmm - as a PR excercise this is bad, but this has happened because of the share price increase, it's not all NTL cash walking out the door.

snip

None of this helps the ee. Does NTL have a sharesave scheme where ee's could benefit in share price increases?

There is nothing new in this, or specific to telecoms either. These 2 bods were presumably not responsible for running up the billions of debt (via buying up too many lame duck companies) which got ntl into trouble in the first place. They will no doubt be arguing that they rescued the company with the bondholder deal (or did they join after that? I can't remember the chronology). Whatever, they will also argue that share awards are a true reflection on their success with the business - shares are only worth anything if the business succeeds. Frankly, whoever was responsible for the debts was criminally negligent but no doubt they got paid off as well. Throughout all this though there has been precious little evidence of the delivery of service improving. ntl is still a highly fragmented business with over-delegation of control, and not enough people to maintain it. We had a local outage recently which ntl monitoring did not detect - when I eventually got through on the phone they checked and could see it. If the business really is doing better then they need to invest more in quality control and smart technology - the basic network is OK but support is very poor. To help this, they need to motivate the workforce much better from what I have heard. This sort of fat cat award doies nothing in that direction.

MrSums
13-01-2004, 14:03
Shareholders who saw thier equity diluted by 98% are also seeing a limited return of their capital. If you invested $100 into the pre c.11 firm and ended up with $2 in the post c.11 firm that is now worth 15 times more $30. A significant improvement also.


Actually, shareholders got diddly-squat from NTL UK, all they got was peanuts-worth of the bankrupt Swiss operation. If you invested $100 into the pre C11 firm, you now have nothing.

I feel for the poor previous employees, who (fully diluted) owned a considerable proportion of the old Company, got no say in the restructuring and so far as I am aware have had no share options granted for all their hard work over the past 2 years. If any option are granted in the next 6 months, I bet they'll be at the $70 price, not the one granted to the parachutees at the top.

orangebird
13-01-2004, 14:12
<snip>
I feel for the poor previous employees, who (fully diluted) owned a considerable proportion of the old Company, got no say in the restructuring and so far as I am aware have had no share options granted for all their hard work over the past 2 years. Correct... :rolleyes:

If any option are granted in the next 6 months, I bet they'll be at the $70 price, not the one granted to the parachutees at the top.

I'd bet that too.... :(

carthage
25-01-2004, 01:08
first of all apologies if this has allready been brought up, I have not seen it on this site or found any reference with my search on the net.

I understand from 2 newspapers, one being the daily express that ntl directors have just awarded themselves millions in bonuses as a big pat on the back for the hard work they did by getting themselves out of chapter 11.

This is not old news as it was apparently announced on Monday/Tueday.

Has anyone else heard this?

I was also wondering if they were going to extend the bonuses for the guys and gals further down the ladder that also worked hard to get the company back on track!

If that is true, then that is appaulling - It is the CSAs that are the front line people - Taking call after call each day -

carthage
25-01-2004, 01:12
There is nothing new in this, or specific to telecoms either. These 2 bods were presumably not responsible for running up the billions of debt (via buying up too many lame duck companies) which got ntl into trouble in the first place. They will no doubt be arguing that they rescued the company with the bondholder deal (or did they join after that? I can't remember the chronology). Whatever, they will also argue that share awards are a true reflection on their success with the business - shares are only worth anything if the business succeeds. Frankly, whoever was responsible for the debts was criminally negligent but no doubt they got paid off as well. Throughout all this though there has been precious little evidence of the delivery of service improving. ntl is still a highly fragmented business with over-delegation of control, and not enough people to maintain it. We had a local outage recently which ntl monitoring did not detect - when I eventually got through on the phone they checked and could see it. If the business really is doing better then they need to invest more in quality control and smart technology - the basic network is OK but support is very poor. To help this, they need to motivate the workforce much better from what I have heard. This sort of fat cat award doies nothing in that direction.
Aye but when you look at the former forebears - Clueless and Worthless - er sorry Cable and Wireless - they lost 36 BILLION POUNDS !!!! and then gave the CEO 2 years salary when he left - How do you loose 36 billion pounds

Xaccers
25-01-2004, 01:31
Aye but when you look at the former forebears - Clueless and Worthless - er sorry Cable and Wireless - they lost 36 BILLION POUNDS !!!! and then gave the CEO 2 years salary when he left - How do you loose 36 billion pounds

Down the back of a really big sofa?

carthage
11-02-2004, 17:35
first of all apologies if this has allready been brought up, I have not seen it on this site or found any reference with my search on the net.

I understand from 2 newspapers, one being the daily express that ntl directors have just awarded themselves millions in bonuses as a big pat on the back for the hard work they did by getting themselves out of chapter 11.

This is not old news as it was apparently announced on Monday/Tueday.

Has anyone else heard this?

I was also wondering if they were going to extend the bonuses for the guys and gals further down the ladder that also worked hard to get the company back on track!
If that is true then it is disgusting - Ntl employees only get a bi annual bonus and that is around 4 percent of half your salary - ie if someone is on 12.000 - it comes to 4 percent of 6000 240.00 Not much

The fat cats are geting the cream

Stuartbe
11-02-2004, 17:59
I wish they would spend some of that money on my ubr and the luton proxy :(

Escapee
11-02-2004, 19:50
If that is true then it is disgusting - Ntl employees only get a bi annual bonus and that is around 4 percent of half your salary - ie if someone is on 12.000 - it comes to 4 percent of 6000 240.00 Not much

The fat cats are geting the cream

I remember back in the old old days, before they used the ntl name ie: CableTel, the bonus scheme was worked out regionally. Anyway our department did exceptionally well and they had to reluctantly pay us a good bonus, they then moved the goal posts for the next quarter as the bonus was quarterly in those days. The other problem was the bonus was made up of something like 10% of your wages that they kept back! as I worked for a company being taken over by them they affectively wanted to give us a pay cut for 2 months and then give us it back with a bit extra if we worked hard the next month.

We also had a thing called pool overtime, it worked something like the first 2 hours overtime you did each week was held back in a pool in case you needed some unpaid time off, if you didn't use the time it was paid to you at the end of the quarter. It sounded like a good idea but in practice ntl were able to sit on your money and earn interest on it for upto 4 months, at the end of this period if you were lucky you got paid the outstanding amount.

It was very awkward to keep track of, and those who did often found that they were being diddled out of money. ntl have always been the same! :rolleyes:

And you guys wonder why I'm so sarcastic about ntl. :D