View Full Version : Orange changes Charging
El Reg (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07/20/orange_charges/)
What is it with cellular operators these days? One minute they’re calling you up and offering you ADSL for free, the next they’re billing you for services which used to be free and chucking in charges where there used to be none.
The operator in question, this time, is Orange, who are keenly promoting their fixed-broadband business (which used to be known as Wanadoo) by offering free ADSL to anyone who spends more than 30 quid a month on a mobile package.
As one hand gives, so the other takes away and existing Orange customers were surprised to discover that itemised billing is now going to cost them £1.50 a month. Apparently customers didn't want it any more, which came as a surprise to the customers we spoke to.
SMS message delivery confirmation used to be free too, but that will set you back a penny a time and anyone claiming on their insurance with Orange might also be surprised to find a 15 quid “administration” charge being levied to handle their claim. This is waived for the first 6 months, and is mentioned in the insurance small print, but is still catching many customers out.
Looks like Orange have found out how much they are losing through their 3G push.
i'm not sure about that article as it says cellular and seems to be US written.. i've had no details of this through from orange at all.. wonder if this is maybe Orange US or something
can't see how they can do this without telling their customers
got a new bill waiting to open tonight so will let you know if this is true
It's Orange UK.
[Edit]-Send this letter to them (thanks to Mr Angry for this ;) )
Dear Sirs,
I am writing to you to voice my immense displeasure regarding the news that you are now proposing to start charging for itemised billing.
This is a service that was free when I entered into my contract with Orange, & one that I expect to remain free.
Having quickly studied the Orange Terms and Conditions, I would like to comment as
follows:
15 CHANGES TO YOUR CONTRACT
15.1 (part thereof). ... We do, however, reserve the right to vary the terms of this Contract from time to time and to make changes to your Service Plan. We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges - or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment - you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).
This clearly gives me the option to cancel as my contract stipulated or included "free itemised billing" and this formed a core element of my decision to subscribe to Orange.
I therefore consider Orange to be in breach of your obligations under the contract, and I ask how you would propose to remedy this (I would suggest that a continuance of my terms and agreed service levels "as was" would be considered a satisfactory remedy to me)
I would also like to draw your attention to the following from your Terms and Conditions:
19.1 changes to your Contract
Subject to Condition 15, your Contract may be varied or amended only by the express mutual agreement of both parties. A party seeking to rely on such variation or amendment must produce evidence of the other party's agreement to it.
I can confirm that I do not accept the contractual legality of your proposed change and that your implementation of any such change will be deemed a breach of your existing contract with me. If I refuse, to give my express mutual agreement to a new term you cannot start charging you for a service you undertook to provide as free under the terms of your original contract.
Whilst I am aware I am now able to cancel my contract and take my business elsewhere without any penalty being imposed on me if you will not honour your original contract I would consider this to be constitute an unfair term under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Credit Agreements.
Ultimately if Orange are not prepared to acknowledge the legitimacy of my contract your obligations and undertakings there under, and the only option you are prepared to afford me is a cancellation then this is quite obviously an unfair term.
By way of an aside I would like to point out, that Orange are obliged by law to provide me with any such information under the DPA. This will cost a maximum of £10.00 (a considerable saving of £8.00 on your proposed charge for 12 months).
I could therefore, place Orange on notice that rather than pay then for a service which they offered , and you subscribed to, on the basis that it was free, I will make a formal request under the DPA at the end of 12 months and I will cite the appropriate exemption clauses i.e.
Part IV Exemptions
35. - (1) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the
disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a
court.
(2) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is
necessary-
(a) for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including
prospective legal proceedings), or
(b) for the purpose of obtaining legal advice,
Also, in the event of an overcharge being identified in the data Orange provide me with I will reserve my right to seek legal advice with regards to recompense.
As you are aware, Orange cannot refuse to supply me with the data once I cite this exemption, and I will seek legal advice in the event of the aforementioned.
If sufficient numbers of people exercised their rights in this regard then I don't think it would be too long before Orange realised that the overhead costs of having to establish and staff a Department solely to deal with customers exercising their legal right to information held on them (along with the added risk factor of fines in the event of their non-compliance within 40 days per request) far outweighs any potential profit you might hope to garner from trying to redraft, to their fiscal advantage, the contracts of existing customers who signed up (in part or in whole) to the lure / promise of free
itemised billing.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Good luck. :)
Cobbydaler
20-07-2006, 13:27
Vodafone are dropping picture & video messages from their extras packs...
See here (http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=Page_ProductDetails&pageID=BS_0701&Content_Id=VF004453)
You do not get anything in this world for free.
You do not get anything in this world for free.
you can get free advice on this forum ;)
You do not get anything in this world for free.
you can get free advice on this forum ;)
So long as you pay for your broadband or other service. or even pay for a computer or pay to go somewhere to use the computer which has the free internet.
AndyCambs
20-07-2006, 22:15
There was a note on the bottom of my last monthly bill from Orange - what annoyed me was the fact that by default (if you took no action), then you were charged £1.50 for itemised billing. Orange used to offer Orange Everyphone, but this has been withdrawn, and is only available to Business customers.
The services are reducing, and the prices staying the same. Orange used to pride itself on the benefits its customers received, but that seems to have gone by the board. Could this be anything to do with the take over by France Telecom?
Personally, I will be cancelling the Orange contract as soon as Virgin Mobile & Ntl:Telewest start to offer a combined package. I will be first in the queue to request a port authorisation code and take my number with me.
anyone claiming on their insurance with Orange might also be surprised to find a 15 quid “administration” charge being levied to handle their claim. This is waived for the first 6 months, and is mentioned in the insurance small print, but is still catching many customers out.
How can it catch people out. It's the first thing CS told me when I got my new handset 8 months ago, which is why I cancelled it and got my own insurance
You do not get anything in this world for free.
Internet = land of the free stuff ;)
How can it catch people out. It's the first thing CS told me when I got my new handset 8 months ago
How about if CS hadn't told you about it?
Then it would have caught you out as you would not have known anything about it.
Vodafone are dropping picture & video messages from their extras packs...
See here (http://online.vodafone.co.uk/dispatch/Portal/appmanager/vodafone/wrp?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=Page_ProductDetails&pageID=BS_0701&Content_Id=VF004453)
and wheres my letter explaining this :mad:
Cobbydaler
09-08-2006, 07:54
and wheres my letter explaining this :mad:
I got a text message from Vodafone, that's how I knew....
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08/09/vodafone_mms_price_increase/
When I was with Orange and there was a problem with network coverage and couldn't call them from a mobile. I had to use a payphone as the landline wasn't connected, It cost £6 as it was an 07973 number, and they kept me on hold for ages.
Well, I billed them for this and they decided to ignore my bills, so I added £10 late payment charge plus postage charges so in total I billed them £17. 3 weeks after I got a smug letter from Orange asking what the bill I sent them was for, my first letter already showed them what it was for. They paid up in the end when I mentioned Ofcom,the Register,Digital spy and The sun.
So, thats how I control companies! So corporations be aware of me! and make sure you get a freephone number for your customer service centre as I will bill you for keeping me on hold if its an 0845,0870 or mobile number if its regarding problems caused by your organisation.
I will simply not let companies make money from me if its regarding a complaint or fault caused by that particular organisation.
When I was with Orange and there was a problem with network coverage and couldn't call them from a mobile. I had to use a payphone as the landline wasn't connected, It cost £6 as it was an 07973 number, and they kept me on hold for ages.
Well, I billed them for this and they decided to ignore my bills, so I added £10 late payment charge plus postage charges so in total I billed them £17. 3 weeks after I got a smug letter from Orange asking what the bill I sent them was for, my first letter already showed them what it was for. They paid up in the end when I mentioned Ofcom,the Register,Digital spy and The sun.
So, thats how I control companies! So corporations be aware of me! and make sure you get a freephone number for your customer service centre as I will bill you for keeping me on hold if its an 0845,0870 or mobile number if its regarding problems caused by your organisation.
I will simply not let companies make money from me if its regarding a complaint or fault caused by that particular organisation.
Thats actually A good idea, why should you have to pay to be on hold to talk to their faults department.
When I was with Orange and there was a problem with network coverage and couldn't call them from a mobile. I had to use a payphone as the landline wasn't connected, It cost £6 as it was an 07973 number, and they kept me on hold for ages.
Well, I billed them for this and they decided to ignore my bills, so I added £10 late payment charge plus postage charges so in total I billed them £17. 3 weeks after I got a smug letter from Orange asking what the bill I sent them was for, my first letter already showed them what it was for. They paid up in the end when I mentioned Ofcom,the Register,Digital spy and The sun.
So, thats how I control companies! So corporations be aware of me! and make sure you get a freephone number for your customer service centre as I will bill you for keeping me on hold if its an 0845,0870 or mobile number if its regarding problems caused by your organisation.
I will simply not let companies make money from me if its regarding a complaint or fault caused by that particular organisation.
Fair play to you. :tu:
i had a problem with Orange a few years ago. the mast at home and the one at work had both gone down
as i spend most of my time either at home or work i coudn't use my phone.. i asked for a discount and the woman on the phone said no :Yikes:
ended up compaining some more to some other people and got some money back but just shows how they treat us sometimes
Pay as you go customers aren't really able to get any compensation for this sort of problem. But when you have to pay so much to speak with the company, I would then claim it back.
To me the worst part is them charging for delivery reports, so it effectively increases the cost of sending a text if you want to know that its been delivered (not unreasonable IMO). I think its rediculous what text messages cost as it is, bearing no relation to the actual cost to the network (a fraction of a penny)
Orange have never charged me for delivery reports and neither the other networks.
Are you sure they are charging you for these or are they charges for something else?
Orange have never charged me for delivery reports and neither the other networks.
Are you sure they are charging you for these or are they charges for something else?
I've not been charged for this so far, but its being introduced according to the last paragraph of the Register article.
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