View Full Version : 2mb service
Stuartbe
28-11-2003, 11:05
Would you pay extra for a 2mb service like the one blue yonder do ?
I know I would (providing it actualy worked !!)
1mb up and 2mb down would be lovely :cool:
There's really no point in this poll/thread Stuart (sorry), as ntl have no plans to launch a 2 meg service-Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl:home) has told me personally that he has no interest in a 2 meg service & the kind of 'bandwith hoggers' he thinks it would bring.
Stuart W
28-11-2003, 11:11
Agreed. I think this topic has been done to death more than once.
Hit "Search" and take a peek ;)
Won't happen (sorry to put it blunt) As Neil said Aizad has said he has no interest in it (I was there also)
Although I would like 2Mbit (would we not all like it if it was cheap)
Even if they did bring it out it would be way way way way over priced
Stuartbe
28-11-2003, 11:16
As homer says DOH !!!
Maybe a cheap fast 2mb connection is pie in the sky for NTL
Anyone selling a house in a blue yonder area ???
Thanks for letting me know about the post everyone, that will teach me not to check the forums before posting :erm:
Florence
28-11-2003, 11:45
Looks like NTL are going to be left behind as ADSL finds ways of giving more speed.
Soon to start bonding ADSL so you can use 2x2mb connections giving a 4mb ADSL connection. Would love to see what their trails come out like. Will the ADSL people finally nail NTL's coffin shut....
Ignition
28-11-2003, 12:26
Aaaaactually a big reason for them not being released would I imagine be that there isn't much demand there. About 0.5% if I remember right of Telewest's customer base take 2Mbit at £50 per month.
If you live in the right areas you can get ADSL up to 8Mbit right now, but at a fairly hefty price, and up to 6Mbit in Central London for about £100 per month.
Bonding 2 DSL lines together will cost at least the price of the 2 2Mbit lines - cheapest business product price will be over £120/mth, not including any further charges for the Multilink PPP. One ISP at the moment is going to be doing this, Nildram.
You can 'load balance' between any connections if you have the appropriate hardware.
Considering that BT have only just released 1Mbit for home users I can't see there being a big rush for speed just yet. It's something I would very much love to see but at the moment while the biggest selling products are 150k and 600k, or 512k in ADSL's case there's not really any demand to speak of there for 2Mbit and up. Simply, most people are happy with what they have, and don't see the point in paying £50 a month for an internet connection. (I can remember paying £300 in a month for a 1p per minute service...ooops :) )
A couple of ADSL ISPs offer 2Mbit connections at £37.50 - £44 a month, these are however contended much more than ratios found on the £65 a month+ business packages and cable.
If you really want 2MBit that badly encourage the demand. The other issue is as was quite rightly said, what's the point in giving someone who already downloads 10GB a day the ability to download another 10GB a day - if you are losing money already on current traffic why lose more?
I've posted at length about this in the past. At some point for speeds to go much higher and sustained high speeds to be achieved there need to be controls. You can't expect to have 2, 3, 4Mbit and achieve it constantly without transfer limits/traffic shaping being in place. With current pricings in the UK, and how used most are to apparently contention free networks something will have to give before the speeds can go through the ceiling.
I download maybe at most 25GB a month, and I'm prepared to accept a reasonable traffic limit to keep a service good, my usage is 'bursty' in that I want high speed to do things quicker, more than to download more. I may well be in the minority in that regard so it comes down really to 'are you prepared to compromise'. Following a poll I brought up on this subject on another site the answer seems to be no.
Wanting/demanding 100% of throughput all the time, unlimited transfer, and a low price isn't going to work. Something somewhere has to give, a sad fact really but the way it is :(
NTL will have to do somthing about the speed they offer, as ADSL is catching up, I think bulldog offer a 6mbps service on off peak hours with a 400kb upload
http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/primetime/primetime.asp
They will have no option once thing begin to get more competitive I think :shrug:
rswilson
28-11-2003, 13:49
If that is the case, then the sooner ntl: replace Aizad Hussain the better. I am reminded of the quote by a person from IBM saying that only 5 or so of these computers would be needed worldwide back in 1960 or so.
Quote:
I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.
--Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943
Endqoute.
Kitty is right in stating that ADSL technology could kill ntl: broadband. BUT ntl: have a great system for delivering much much better service and services if only they take their head out of the sand. I know that ntl: still have severe financial constraints, but forward thinking by senior management ( particularly an MD )is essential if the company is to survive and compete against the like of companies offering ADSL.
I am sorry for my rant, but I was inspired to comment following Neilâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s rather insipid response.
regards
Rob
in·sipà ƒÆ’ƒâ€šÃ‚·id ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-spd)
adj.
Lacking flavor or zest; not tasty.
Lacking qualities that excite, stimulate, or interest; dull.
I'm sorry if that's how you found my post, I was giving a viewpoint that is also factual having had it from 'the horses mouth' so to speak.
I'm not here to dress my posts up or jazz them up to hide facts (unlike ntl) I am here to help people & tell it how it is.
The fact of the matter is that 2 meg is not coming form ntl, I agree this may be commercially short sighted, but when has that ever stopped ntl making decisions?
There's really no point in this poll/thread Stuart (sorry), as ntl have no plans to launch a 2 meg service-Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl:home) has told me personally that he has no interest in a 2 meg service & the kind of 'bandwith hoggers' he thinks it would bring.
Thats excellent. An MD who knows what the customers want and calls us 'bandwith hoggers'.
Stuck up w*****
Thats excellent. An MD who knows what the customers want and calls us 'bandwith hoggers'. :Peace:
Stuck up w*****
Could not agree with you more there
Stuartbe
28-11-2003, 14:14
Hmmmmmm. Looks like Ive stired up a hornets nest.
I am sure however that if there was another cable company that suplied this area NTL would find that sudenly customers are a bit thin on the ground :-)
Hmmmmmm. Looks like Ive stired up a hornets nest.
I am sure however that if there was another cable company that suplied this area NTL would find that sudenly customers are a bit thin on the ground :-)
I`m waiting for the day the regulators realise that cable companies have a local monopoly and force them to open their connections to other suppliers so I could get the Blueyonder service over NTL lines.
But I think the quote from the MD pretty much sums up NTL's attitude to the customer base, they want to take the money but don`t want to supply a service in return.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 2MB service "when" NTL merge with Telewest, which seems likely?
Dumped or diversified?
wizardman
28-11-2003, 14:46
It will be interesting to see what happens to the 2MB service "when" NTL merge with Telewest, which seems likely?
Dumped or diversified?
it dont matter to me who provides the service coz im happy either way i must be mentally :disturbd: sayin this
Stuartbe
28-11-2003, 14:48
From reading the posts on this and other forums the problem I can see is that everyone is being acused of hogging bandwidth.
I am trying hard to understand the logic of the above.
If I as a customer was not bothered about bandwidth of transfer speeds I would use a dial up connection. The reason that I pay my £35.00 a month is that I want a 1mb connection and I want to use that 1mb connection when I need to. If that means some very large downloads so be it.
I dont understand the problem. People are paying for a service that they want. I would not go into a hi fi shop and buy a separate's amp that I could only use on friday and that only works corectly when it feels like it. I would demand a refund,
We are paying for a service - if a company cannot provide that service (if there network cant handle it for example) then we are not getting the service. SIMPLE
Deep Breath ---- rant over.............
rswilson
28-11-2003, 15:01
I would also like to add the following:
The Cost of Having Analog Executives in a Digital World Hal Berghel"There is no business in the world which can hope to move forward if it does not keep abreast of the time, look into the future and study the probable demands of the future."
INTRODUCTION
The quote above is from Thomas J. Watson, Sr. on the occasion of the opening of a new IBM laboratory in 1932. Few would disagree of the need for sound and accurate technology forecasting in any organization which seeks to remain competitive. However there is little evidence that the full ramifications of this observation are consistently understood or widely implemented even today. T.J. seniorââ‚Ã⠀šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s advice may be falling on deaf ears †“ and this is will become even more of a problem as we begin a new millennium where network/distributed processing environments will be even more unforgiving of technological blunders.
regards
Rob
Looks like NTL are going to be left behind as ADSL finds ways of giving more speed.
Soon to start bonding ADSL so you can use 2x2mb connections giving a 4mb ADSL connection. Would love to see what their trails come out like. Will the ADSL people finally nail NTL's coffin shut....
To be honest Kitty, I'm getting to a point now after 3.5 years with Ntl where I want to cancel both TV&phone and BB and get a BT line and free-view. I'm so hacked off with their attitude about things like e-mail and ETV as well as having nothing but hassle when I call Nottingham (at the moment, they used to be fairly good :erm: ).
Anyone know where I can buy a Free-view box and return it if it doesn't work?
Ignition
28-11-2003, 16:52
[QUOTE=joker]NTL will have to do somthing about the speed they offer, as ADSL is catching up, I think bulldog offer a 6mbps service on off peak hours with a 400kb upload
http://www.bulldogdsl.com/residential/products/primetime/primetime.asp
QUOTE]
Only available in less than 100 exchanges in Central London tho, the ones connected to Bulldog's metro ring.
Think the best comparison is against BT's IPStream services, which are 512k/256k and 1024k/256k flavours only.
I`m waiting for the day the regulators realise that cable companies have a local monopoly and force them to open their connections to other suppliers so I could get the Blueyonder service over NTL lines.
Its already starting to happen *without* any legislation/regulation. AOL via ntl Cable anyone ? Also IIRC Freeserve were considering it as well, there was something in the Press section of ntl.com but I cant be bothered hunting it down :)
Companies like Freedom2Surf supply 2Mb ADSL with 20:1 contention for £59.95 pm with no activation fee & no contract period. If NTL or no other company offers 2Mb within the next few months, then I'm dumping NTL (TV, Phone & BB) for Sky, BT & F2S, which will just go to show that I won't put up with short-sighted & sub-standard service.
The constant lack of working email, use of proxies and slow service, is making me detest NTL more each time. I pay around £100pm to NTL, & if they don't care enough to provide me with what I'm paying for, then I'll take my custom & money elsewhere.
Its already starting to happen *without* any legislation/regulation. AOL via ntl Cable anyone ? Also IIRC Freeserve were considering it as well, there was something in the Press section of ntl.com but I cant be bothered hunting it down :)
True yes, but my point was that its still available, do ntl :td: offer such a fast service within the same area? (I don't think so :shrug:)
True yes, but my point was that its still available, do ntl :td: offer such a fast service within the same area? (I don't think so :shrug:)But given the vastly different technologies between cable & copper wire based adsl I would imagine its technically not practicable for the cable companies (ntl,telewest,wightcable,kingston etc) to 'unbundle the local loop' in the same way that BT can for ADSL technology.
Sorry fraz quoted that wrong I think, Just trying to put a point across that other comapanys are providing a faster service.
Its a shame that you can ADSL over NTL, is there any plans for this, I'm sure that i was reading on an ADSL providers website that it ADSL may soon be possable over NTL.. ?
Sorry fraz quoted that wrong I think, Just trying to put a point across that other comapanys are providing a faster service.
Its a shame that you can ADSL over NTL, is there any plans for this, I'm sure that i was reading on an ADSL providers website that it ADSL may soon be possable over NTL.. ?
Again its a techniology issue. Why should any cable company spend money on enabling ADSL on their telco network when they can already provide broadband via the CATV feed ??
NTL do offer business ADSL packages, if you are on a BT line.
in business you have to stay one step ahead of your competitors so by providing a 2mbit service its there to use for NTL customers the short term cost of billing changes and the network tweaks for new config files etc would all be short term but long term NTL will see an increased benefit to its subscriber base attracting customers who maybe after a higher then normal download speed as i am one of those that have expressed an interest in 2mbit as well as others in previous threads
Its already starting to happen *without* any legislation/regulation. AOL via ntl Cable anyone ? Also IIRC Freeserve were considering it as well, there was something in the Press section of ntl.com but I cant be bothered hunting it down :)
But it isn`t really a choice at the end of the day with only those two options, and scarily enough, with that choice I see NTL as the better devil.
We need to see the situation with cable being brought in line with that with BT phone lines, where we have a choice of a wide range of suppliers.
But it isn`t really a choice at the end of the day with only those two options, and scarily enough, with that choice I see NTL as the better devil.
We need to see the situation with cable being brought in line with that with BT phone lines, where we have a choice of a wide range of suppliers.
At the risk of appearing to repeat myself I dont believe (and I'm sure someone out there knows the technology better) that its technologically feasible for Cable companies to open up their networks in the same manner as BT has done.
We need to see the situation with cable being brought in line with that with BT phone lines, where we have a choice of a wide range of suppliers.
if your saying NTL should allow other broadband suppliers to use there network so we can get higher speeds via ADSL i dont see that happening but then again it is NTL :rolleyes:
DrAwesome
28-11-2003, 19:19
Companies like Freedom2Surf supply 2Mb ADSL with 20:1 contention for £59.95 pm with no activation fee & no contract period. If NTL or no other company offers 2Mb within the next few months, then I'm dumping NTL (TV, Phone & BB) for Sky, BT & F2S, which will just go to show that I won't put up with short-sighted & sub-standard service.
The constant lack of working email, use of proxies and slow service, is making me detest NTL more each time. I pay around £100pm to NTL, & if they don't care enough to provide me with what I'm paying for, then I'll take my custom & money elsewhere.
Another 2mb all the time ISP to consider is Silvermead (http://www.silvermead.co.uk/) Home 2Mb 50:1 Unlimited £39.99 its a big jump money wise to get away from NTL
The down side
Higher cost of BT phone rental
you need to be within 3.5Km of a BT exchange
Cost of adsl modem inc one filtre (one off purchase)
Activation fee (one off £50)
£39.99 a month for 2mb subscription
The up side
No modem rental to pay
2mb all the time (not just part time)
No download cap restrictions
24hr support
minimum contract period of 3 months
1 free static ip addr
compatible with the XBL
compatible with the Playstation Network Gaming service
The rest you can read by clicking on the link
Something missing from the vote
Would you pay extra for a 2mb service ?
Yes I would
I already have 2mb
Not a chance pal !
it could be a suprise just how many people already access the internet/nthellworld using 2mb or more connection.
Do you really have to be a NTL customer to be a member of Nthellworld?
Florence
28-11-2003, 19:23
At the risk of appearing to repeat myself I dont believe (and I'm sure someone out there knows the technology better) that its technologically feasible for Cable companies to open up their networks in the same manner as BT has done.
Telewest customers often go over the speed they should have as they are not capped. To avoid repeating this again The telewest 2 mb service is going well and has shown its possible to use 2 mb over cable More the cable laid by Cable and wirless which seems to have been the better choice than NTls and the same as Telewests. I was able to watch a 1mb telewest customer downloading off a 2mb ADSL customer and the ADSL customer said that Telewest was giving faster speeds than he had.
Its there! its possible! It just in the control of the blind who cannot see what is happening around them and have lost direction.. NTL!!!
Telewest customers often go over the speed they should have as they are not capped. To avoid repeating this again The telewest 2 mb service is going well and has shown its possible to use 2 mb over cable More the cable laid by Cable and wirless which seems to have been the better choice than NTls and the same as Telewests. I was able to watch a 1mb telewest customer downloading off a 2mb ADSL customer and the ADSL customer said that Telewest was giving faster speeds than he had.
Its there! its possible! It just in the control of the blind who cannot see what is happening around them and have lost direction.. NTL!!!
Youre confusing two seperate issues.
1> Opening up cable companies networks to allow other providers to supply competition
2> Raw Connection Speed
The answer you quoted referred to 1 .
As regards 2 then yes it is a (relatively) simple matter to rewrite the config files etc to give whatever combination of maximum downstream/upstream you like . It could be 2 Mb/512k or 2Mb/256k , it could even be 1.75Mb/350k or 4Mb/1mb however are we likely to see such service levels being offered in the near future? Judging by answers elsewhere in the past I very much doubt it
<SNIP>Do you really have to be a NTL customer to be a member of Nthellworld?
Nope - You're all welcome (providing you don't keep boosting about having 2mb and unlimited bandwidth) - PS. Could you download Mandrake 9.2 for me?
If you're a customer you automatically become a member of NTL HELL though! (sorry could resist)
But given the vastly different technologies between cable & copper wire based adsl I would imagine its technically not practicable for the cable companies (ntl,telewest,wightcable,kingston etc) to 'unbundle the local loop' in the same way that BT can for ADSL technology.
At the risk of appearing to repeat myself I dont believe (and I'm sure someone out there knows the technology better) that its technologically feasible for Cable companies to open up their networks in the same manner as BT has done.Youre confusing two seperate issues.
1> Opening up cable companies networks to allow other providers to supply competition
2> Raw Connection Speed
The answer you quoted referred to 1 .
As regards 2 then yes it is a (relatively) simple matter to rewrite the config files etc to give whatever combination of maximum downstream/upstream you like . It could be 2 Mb/512k or 2Mb/256k , it could even be 1.75Mb/350k or 4Mb/1mb however are we likely to see such service levels being offered in the near future? Judging by answers elsewhere in the past I very much doubt it
U R wrong Farz.
Its called Opencable see http://www.opencable.com/ and it alredy happens in the US. Roadrunner operates on networks as well as the network's own ISP for example Comcast. Each ISP just uses a different TV channel slot because Digital is more efficient you get several Digital channels in the space of one Analogue so they have freed up analogue channels.
When Telewest launch their Ethernet over coax (not docsys) service it will give switched symmetrical services of 10MBPS.
Telewest customers often go over the speed they should have as they are not capped.
Correct I've mentioned this before about my m8 who's on Telewest's 2MB service. He's getting the full 2MB download speed and 512 upload :(
Florence
28-11-2003, 22:41
If NTLs was forced to open up and allow other cable companies sell over their cables I would jump ship to Telewest.
BT was forced to open up so why not NTL they seem unable to offer the things telewest can so let telewest in...
number34
28-11-2003, 23:09
If NTLs was forced to open up and allow other cable companies sell over their cables I would jump ship to Telewest.
BT was forced to open up so why not NTL they seem unable to offer the things telewest can so let telewest in...
Why should NTL open up their network? They've nearly gone bankrupt buying other companies and laying their own cable, surely they have a right to try to make money out of it and determine the best way to do that. If they can get more people willing to pay £17.99 for 150k then it makes more sense to do that than offer 2mb for only double!
Also I think that there is only one other cable company, Telewest, and when they have finished their financial restructuring it still seems more than likely that they will merge with NTL!
Florence
28-11-2003, 23:18
Not sure on that one now Telewest have some good ideas and do communicate with customers. I think NTL will have some shocks coming from Telewest, BT and it will take some rethinking on NTLââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s part to look as good a deal.
Why should NTL open up their network?
Er how about because BT had to
Er how about because BT had to
i agree even though NTL is smaller for network coverage than BT NTL should be made to open ther network up allowing other compaines to join and we should see better speeds from the ADSL suppliers
number34
29-11-2003, 00:02
Er how about because BT had to
Totally different situation thats why. BT had been a nationalised company and had a monopoly as far as the telephone network. Even when privatised this was true so To make competition work they were forced to open up their network. NTL & Telewest are private companies and have built their networks to compete with BT using their own monies, no way they can or should be forced to open up their networks to others who have not taken the same risks!
Totally different situation thats why. BT had been a nationalised company and had a monopoly
risks!
You said the magic word "monopoly" NTL have it in there area's as to the other cable companies and so there cannot be fair competition here.
PS yes BT was a nationalised company but the goverment sold it. They took the money and ran then forced them to open up a network they didn't own anymore!
number34
29-11-2003, 00:17
You said the magic word "monopoly" NTL have it in there area's as to the other cable companies and so there cannot be fair competition here.
PS yes BT was a nationalised company but the goverment sold it. They took the money and ran then forced them to open up a network they didn't own anymore!
BT had a monopoly because they were the only company allowed to provide telephone services when they built up their network. Nothing is stopping others setting up in competition to NTL and Telewest so it is not a monopoly - Simple!
ntl don't have a monopoly, they're up against BT and Sky for bleep's sake*, two of the biggest monopolists in town (fancy getting ADSL or Premiership football from someone else? Tough.).
ntl have, of course, opened up to AOL to sell over their cable lines without any pressure from the government. Don't see BT doing that often. Grudgingly open up ADSL to third party resellers then screw them over with BT Broadband and massive advertising hits, is more like their style.
BT would LOVE ntl and TW to be forced to compete, as it would take the attention of both companies away from competing with BT. And they'd have to be forced to compete, neither ntl nor TW would want, in their current situation, to expand into each others territory without coercion.
On a different, but related note, remember that the government nonsensically referred the ntl/CWC merger (two non-competing companies) to the MMC despite there being no monopolistic aspect to the merger.
Anyway, what's so great about forced competition? Privatised railways, PFI schemes and directory enquiries spring to mind.
*and the BBC/Sky joint venture of Freeview.
BT had a monopoly because they were the only company allowed to provide telephone services when they built up their network. Nothing is stopping others setting up in competition to NTL and Telewest so it is not a monopoly - Simple!
I`m not sure that is true as the original smaller cable companies had to bid for the licence to lay cable in a particular areas, and I don`t think anyone else could get a licence, so in that sense they do have a local monopoly in the cable market.
Why should NTL open up their network? They've nearly gone bankrupt buying other companies and laying their own cable, surely they have a right to try to make money out of it and determine the best way to do that. If they can get more people willing to pay £17.99 for 150k then it makes more sense to do that than offer 2mb for only double!
Also I think that there is only one other cable company, Telewest, and when they have finished their financial restructuring it still seems more than likely that they will merge with NTL!
One other major Cable company. Theres alsoa couple of smaller outfits such as Wightcable & Kingston Communications
i agree even though NTL is smaller for network coverage than BT NTL should be made to open ther network up allowing other compaines to join and we should see better speeds from the ADSL suppliers
But you cant get ADSL on a ntl telco line as they dont have the equipment in place to offer it. What they are doing is letting ISPs such as AOL operate via their network (without the regulators telling them too)
Florence
29-11-2003, 11:38
But you cant get ADSL on a ntl telco line as they dont have the equipment in place to offer it. What they are doing is letting ISPs such as AOL operate via their network (without the regulators telling them too)
But NTL are planning an ADSL broadband if this is to work customers off BT then using India as the call center will not win them the customers. BT customers already hate those call centers.
But NTL are planning an ADSL broadband if this is to work customers off BT then using India as the call center will not win them the customers. BT customers already hate those call centers.
I would imagine it will be the same as their Business ADSL offering ie only available if you have a BT line. In other words an offnet Broadband version of ntl:Freedom.
Unless I'm very much mistaken ntls telco service cannot physically support ADSL and even if it could why should they compete with their own Cable Broadband service ? There would be no advantage in it for them would there ?
cjmillsnun
29-11-2003, 11:56
Thats excellent. An MD who knows what the customers want and calls us 'bandwith hoggers'.
Stuck up w*****
For once Defiant, I totally agree with you., Aizad is being a stuck up ******.
cjmillsnun
29-11-2003, 12:06
Totally different situation thats why. BT had been a nationalised company and had a monopoly as far as the telephone network. Even when privatised this was true so To make competition work they were forced to open up their network. NTL & Telewest are private companies and have built their networks to compete with BT using their own monies, no way they can or should be forced to open up their networks to others who have not taken the same risks!
Maybe they were the monopoly when privatised, but they inherited a substandard analogue network from the Government.
They spent Billions on it bringing it up to some sort of standard, and converting it to digital (as a private network).
They were then forced to open it up.
So why shouldn't NTL and TW be forced to open their networks up?
cjmillsnun
29-11-2003, 12:20
I would imagine it will be the same as their Business ADSL offering ie only available if you have a BT line. In other words an offnet Broadband version of ntl:Freedom.
Unless I'm very much mistaken ntls telco service cannot physically support ADSL and even if it could why should they compete with their own Cable Broadband service ? There would be no advantage in it for them would there ?
From what I understand from the 'Goodland tape', NTLs network could support ADSL with minimal extra equipment, and it would be cheaper for NTL to introduce this than for them to upgrade their UBRs.
There is an advantage for ADSL, in congested cable areas, they could introduce ADSL, not in competition with cable, but as a way of relieving the pressure on the UBRs. From what I understand, once you get past the UBRs there is plenty of bandwith that has been paid for and is available and unused.
So to introduce ADSL with the same pricing would allso NTL to have a more reliable BB service.
th'engineer
29-11-2003, 12:21
This thread is pointless why have 2mb its a capped service from NTL.
This thread is pointless why have 2mb its a capped service from NTL.
Allows you to grab your 1 Gig quicker so you can spend more time in the pub :p
th'engineer
29-11-2003, 12:33
Allows you to grab your 1 Gig quicker so you can spend more time in the pub :p
Its still pointless with the CAP one good thing about it is it has allowed other ISPs will grow. As they dont have CAPs and take away NTL customers.
I agree with NTLs cap think its good for all ADSL suppliers that do not have a CAP.
They get more customers
Perhaps this should be a poll on who thinks Aizad should be out. He does'nt seem to have a clue what the customers want and well NTL no longer provide the cheap service of the past. Just look how many people have lowered there packages or just gone to FREEview like me
Ignition
29-11-2003, 14:34
I thought this was about a 2Mbit service, not unbundling of ntl's networks, how Telewest outperform ntl though they use the same kit and network systems, etc, o well....
Its still pointless with the CAP one good thing about it is it has allowed other ISPs will grow. As they dont have CAPs and take away NTL customers.
I agree with NTLs cap think its good for all ADSL suppliers that do not have a CAP.
They get more customers
This thread is pointless why have 2mb its a capped service from NTL.
From where I sit ntl are still taking on customers at a pretty rapid rate, and are still the biggest BB ISP in the UK, and don't kid yourself, the caps/traffic shaping are coming along with the next generation of transfer rates whatever the delivery platform.
Because some people, like myself, would like 2Mbit services to do things quicker, rather than to download more.
Perhaps this should be a poll on who thinks Aizad should be out. He does'nt seem to have a clue what the customers want and well NTL no longer provide the cheap service of the past. Just look how many people have lowered there packages or just gone to FREEview like me
Correct I've mentioned this before about my m8 who's on Telewest's 2MB service. He's getting the full 2MB download speed and 512 upload :(
LIke the post about if Bill Goodland should be fired, that I think got zero replies?
Astounding considering Telewest offer no 2Mbit download, 512kbit upload service. It's 2048/256kbit. Yes he might be getting his full quota, in some areas they don't, just as the vast majority of ntl subscribers get their full bandwidth all the time, a minority don't.
For once Defiant, I totally agree with you., Aizad is being a stuck up ******.
Didn't he actually say didn't want to attract bandwidth hoggers rather than accusing existing customers of being so? All ISPs want customers to use as little capacity as possible, even if some don't admit it.
Telewest customers often go over the speed they should have as they are not capped. To avoid repeating this again The telewest 2 mb service is going well and has shown its possible to use 2 mb over cable More the cable laid by Cable and wirless which seems to have been the better choice than NTls and the same as Telewests. I was able to watch a 1mb telewest customer downloading off a 2mb ADSL customer and the ADSL customer said that Telewest was giving faster speeds than he had.
What?!?! Telewest customers are capped using the exact same system as ntl customers, and don't get more than they pay for. It's fully possible to pull nearly 30Mbit/s on cable, and the quality of the cable is irrelevant, so long as it can support QAM64 modulation on a EuroDOCSIS downstream you can get close to 30Mbit down it. Cable is a time division technology, each customer gets the full bandwidth of the line for a fraction of a second on demand, to increase bandwidths is a matter of uploading a config file to a modem, and configuring the uBR appropriately so that the modem can have more time slices?!?!
And what does a 1Mbit Telewest customer downloading from a 2Mbit ADSL customer prove when the 2Mbit ADSL customer can only upload at 256kbit/s ?
If NTLs was forced to open up and allow other cable companies sell over their cables I would jump ship to Telewest.
BT was forced to open up so why not NTL they seem unable to offer the things telewest can so let telewest in...
Considering that the widely held view is that Telewest and ntl will be merging within 2 years you may well have that choice! BT's network is already paid for many times over, ntl's still yet to be paid back, and fundamentally was built before it came under control of BT PLC. There's a growing movement for BT to basically have their network taken from them, due to their consistent abuse of their monopoly, their reluctance to 'open up', and their continued deployment of obsolete technology, and holding back of uk.net for short-term profits.
You said the magic word "monopoly" NTL have it in there area's as to the other cable companies and so there cannot be fair competition here.
PS yes BT was a nationalised company but the goverment sold it. They took the money and ran then forced them to open up a network they didn't own anymore!
European law also demanded that BT's network be opened up as they are incumbent monopoly telco. NTL have very little monopoly if any as BT have a USO and Sky or Freeview will between them reach pretty much anywhere. If you want NTL to open their network up competely you can pay the money in compensation for the 13+ billion quid spent building a network only to be forced to unbundle it. I would actually quick like to see wholesale cable modem service that only use ntl's HFC network and no more, would be good from consumer POV and in some ways ntl's too. But under ntl's own terms and when they and the market permit. At the moment the spectrum is a bit full due to analogue TV broadcasts. This may well become viable though once complete analogue switchoff has been done.
Maybe they were the monopoly when privatised, but they inherited a substandard analogue network from the Government.
They spent Billions on it bringing it up to some sort of standard, and converting it to digital (as a private network).
They were then forced to open it up.
So why shouldn't NTL and TW be forced to open their networks up?
That network paid for itself many times over before they were asked, then begged, then forced, then threatened by European courts to open it up. Fact is BT's network is the only one in a lot of places, NTL + TW the story is completely different. I can't remember NTL or TW making 3 billion a year in pre-tax profit, can't this wait until they've actually started to get some return back for the billions they've invested (over £20 billion between them). This has been said before though. NTL + TW do not have natural monopoly of telco services anywhere to speak of, maybe odd streets here and there where ADSL is out of range, that's pretty much it though for broadband, and even less for telephone service as BT have their USO.
U R wrong Farz.
Its called Opencable see http://www.opencable.com/ and it alredy happens in the US. Roadrunner operates on networks as well as the network's own ISP for example Comcast. Each ISP just uses a different TV channel slot because Digital is more efficient you get several Digital channels in the space of one Analogue so they have freed up analogue channels.
When Telewest launch their Ethernet over coax (not docsys) service it will give switched symmetrical services of 10MBPS.
Yeah I agree with the first bit as I said above. As far as Ethernet over coax goes, that's years away mate, it's theoretical and untested in live deployments, only in a test environment has it even been attempted at the moment. Telewest are just completing a debt for equity swap, you honestly think they have the money to deploy that service at the moment? More to the point you are again missing the fact that Telewest and ntl will in all likelihood be the same company by then, and will more than likely be releasing the service together, when they can, and when the demand and profit is there.
Florence
29-11-2003, 14:35
Allows you to grab your 1 Gig quicker so you can spend more time in the pub :p
This being posted from someone who works within the abuse@ntl team makes me think NTL are about to make this more active. If this is the case I hope NTL are able to allow each and every customer online upto date stats on their downloads and uploads like what MRTG does...
NTL really need to sort themselves out while they still have customers not start to use this AUP cap
Ignition
29-11-2003, 14:40
:p = joke I'm thinking :)
compensation for the 13+ billion quid spent building a network
Did they now. So you think NTL spend 13+ billion on the network. Well thats what they paid over stretching themselve's buying up anything that moved. They also paid over the odd's for some of them ie the C&W area but thats not the customers fault is it. Its the MD's fault and incase you haven't worked it out yet I'm extracting the unrine here because we all know it wasn't 13 billion on the network !
BAD MANAGEMENT
Florence
29-11-2003, 14:55
Considering that the widely held view is that Telewest and ntl will be merging within 2 years you may well have that choice!
If the above quote woirks out true I only hope that NTL take on Telewest good points and improves everything and not the other way around Telewest taking on NTls bad points no customers communication etc....
Ignition
29-11-2003, 15:00
Did they now. So you think NTL spend 13+ billion on the network. Well thats what they paid over stretching themselve's buying up anything that moved. They also paid over the odd's for some of them ie the C&W area but thats not the customers fault is it. Its the MD's fault and incase you haven't worked it out yet I'm extracting the unrine here because we all know it wasn't 13 billion on the network !
BAD MANAGEMENT
Not interested in going there. Whatever happened at that time re: overpaying etc, Telewest and pretty much every other telecomms company were every bit as guilty. Had Sky not gotten such a large market share on premium TV situation would be very very much different right now, a gamble was taken, didn't work as planned. Have a look at the 3G debacle across Europe for copious evidence of the .com bubble bursting.
Before the C+W acquisition ntl were the #3 cable company behind C+W and Telewest. TW were offering an almost identical sum to ntl, and had ntl not paid that bit extra in cash, without a crystal ball who are you or I to say where things would be now?
Of course not 100% of that money was network, minor details like support staff, administration, etc to maintain network and customer base would come into it, little unnecessary things like that. However as these came with the network components and can't really be seperated think I'm quite justified in describing 13 billion as being spent building the network.
This being posted from someone who works within the abuse@ntl team makes me think NTL are about to make this more active. If this is the case I hope NTL are able to allow each and every customer online upto date stats on their downloads and uploads like what MRTG does...
NTL really need to sort themselves out while they still have customers not start to use this AUP cap
*sigh*
:p = joke I'm thinking :)
Exactly,some people are just so overly paranoid sometimes :)
I have nothing against "the cap" - why should my service suffer because of all these people hogging the bandwidth to download their illegal movies and music.
I would be quite happy if they all went and hogged the ADSL networks and left me to a nice fast 1mb (or 2mb ;)) BB service. :ninja:
<goes off to get flameproof coat>
Florence
29-11-2003, 22:22
*sigh*
Exactly,some people are just so overly paranoid sometimes :)
Sorry Fraz but you never did come over as the type to joke you are more of a serious person hence remarks like yours are taken as serious..
Ignition
29-11-2003, 23:06
Sorry Fraz but you never did come over as the type to joke you are more of a serious person hence remarks like yours are taken as serious..
Hehe he's cool really so long as you ain't on the other end of a :nono: from him in his official capacity :Peace:
I have nothing against "the cap" - why should my service suffer because of all these people hogging the bandwidth to download their illegal movies and music.
I would be quite happy if they all went and hogged the ADSL networks and left me to a nice fast 1mb (or 2mb ;)) BB service. :ninja:
<goes off to get flameproof coat>I'll stick my head out above the parapet and join you on that one...
I'll stick my head out above the parapet and join you on that one...
me too also :)
and before anyone starts getting apopletic heart attacks I'll reiterate my sig file,
thats my personal opinion as a customer using an ntl cablemodem same as everyoner else.
Whats stopping any other company laying thousands of miles of copper like BT did..
Oh yeah Money Oppps forgot!
th'engineer
30-11-2003, 08:10
I think that the one thing wrong as demonstrated here is trust between the customer and NTL.
Its allright justanothernoob spouting on about how many new customers. It seems that the old customers are moving like defiant like NEIL and myself eventually.
Fact quite a few people that live in my area are going members of my family moving to freeview or the basic package. People moving not taking NTL with them and saying at last got rid of it.
justanothernoob people sign up find out how bad the service is then move on there are good people in NTL like yourself .
But get real e-mail & DNS are two requirements that people like there ISPs to manage properley.
As well as having no limitations imposed on existing customers withoput proper research by idiots called Goodland.
Florence
30-11-2003, 09:25
Hehe he's cool really so long as you ain't on the other end of a :nono: from him in his official capacity :Peace:
I have always tried to find ways not to end up in that position but the biggist problem is NTL themselves. with teenagers sharing the connectioin I need to know whats going through the modem!!!!! Blueyonder customers can monitor theirs using a program called MRTG... NTL customers are blocked so no way to monitor the amount going through the modem. I have tried many ways but all failed I have been told its because of the STB buit Blueyonder also have those.. Tried another called PRTG but it can only find the SACM if I reboot it and if anything like a reboot of the pc is needed or the SACM drops the interent it cannot find it again, also I cannot ping it where Blueyonder customers can.
Allow the customers the right to monitor their own usage if they want, communicate with the customer better, and NTL will become a good company. Maybe..............
But get real e-mail & DNS are two requirements that people like there ISPs to manage properley.
.
Personally all I want from an ISP is a net connection thats stable(which touch wood mine has been) . I dont need all the boltons such as email,newsgroups.webspace etc etc and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that want nothing more as well.
Hmm think how much money could be spent on improving the network if you didnt have to maintain email & webspace servers ?? Probably more than enough to offer everyone a 2Mb plus service without any usage guidelines :-)
I have always tried to find ways not to end up in that position but the biggist problem is NTL themselves. with teenagers sharing the connectioin I need to know whats going through the modem!!!!! Blueyonder customers can monitor theirs using a program called MRTG... NTL customers are blocked so no way to monitor the amount going through the modem. I have tried many ways but all failed I have been told its because of the STB buit Blueyonder also have those.. Tried another called PRTG but it can only find the SACM if I reboot it and if anything like a reboot of the pc is needed or the SACM drops the interent it cannot find it again, also I cannot ping it where Blueyonder customers can.
Allow the customers the right to monitor their own usage if they want, communicate with the customer better, and NTL will become a good company. Maybe..............
nothing stopping you monitoring usage in other ways such as via a router/gateway machine is there ?
EDIT : Actually thinking about it if you are running an internal network then its probably possible using a router/gateway to monitor individual usage internally which you wouldnt be able to do if you were getting the figures from the modem.
Florence
30-11-2003, 11:00
nothing stopping you monitoring usage in other ways such as via a router/gateway machine is there ?
Yes the linksys router I have can't do it... I know the SCAM can if you can ping it but I can't ping mine and I do know the settings are right for the router to allow this if it wasn't blocked on the SACM by someone who already can ping theirs but using Blueyonder. Also with the loss of .com I have lost links that I was working on to try and get some more help with this situation.
2mb would be great but only with ways to monitor the downloads and uploads. Keeping this info just for the Staff is a way to say we can watch you but you can't watch yourself.. Then we only have your word that we have exceeding the allowed AUP..
Yes the linksys router I have can't do it... I know the SCAM can if you can ping it but I can't ping mine and I do know the settings are right for the router to allow this if it wasn't blocked on the SACM by someone who already can ping theirs but using Blueyonder. Also with the loss of .com I have lost links that I was working on to try and get some more help with this situation.
so use a linux box and iptables in between your router (or instead of your router) and your internal network
2mb would be great but only with ways to monitor the downloads and uploads. Keeping this info just for the Staff is a way to say we can watch you but you can't watch yourself.. Then we only have your word that we have exceeding the allowed AUP..
Question: do youkeep an individual log of every individual phone call thats made or do you rely on NTLs bill recording the numbers called ?
Ignition
30-11-2003, 11:17
me too also :)
and before anyone starts getting apopletic heart attacks I'll reiterate my sig file,
thats my personal opinion as a customer using an ntl cablemodem same as everyoner else.
Exactly the same sentiments from me, as I've posted on other forums elsewhere, it's the only way to next gen speeds at reasonable prices while maintaining a good quality of service.
Florence
30-11-2003, 11:18
so use a linux box and iptables in between your router (or instead of your router) and your internal network
Question: do youkeep an individual log of every individual phone call thats made or do you rely on NTLs bill recording the numbers called ?
Keep a record of every call and fax sent now have since the large bill. Time/number and how long talking. Fax keeps its log and can print out when asked.
I'm a little lost in all of this, but, being a member of IEEE's Communications Society (I like telecommunications), some of this stuff interests me. What is EuroDocsis? Is that some bastar*dization of DOCSIS 1.1 or 2.0?
Do you guys in England have Tx lines or Ex lines?
Personally all I want from an ISP is a net connection thats stable(which touch wood mine has been) . I dont need all the boltons such as email,newsgroups.webspace etc etc and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that want nothing more as well.
Hmm think how much money could be spent on improving the network if you didnt have to maintain email & webspace servers ?? Probably more than enough to offer everyone a 2Mb plus service without any usage guidelines :-)
I agree with you, I don't believe NTL need to (or should) offer webspace or newsgroups or games servers or e-mail or any other crap like that. Such things should be left to other companies to provide and you simply choose which ISP you want to use to connect to them all.
I agree with you, I don't believe NTL need to (or should) offer webspace or newsgroups or games servers or e-mail or any other crap like that. Such things should be left to other companies to provide and you simply choose which ISP you want to use to connect to them all.
But they do thats the point, and they provide a crap service with them.
If they didn't want to provide all that stuff then they should have sold the product as a basic connection to the net, nothing more.
For £24.99 a month its a bloody expensive "basic connection to the net" don't you think , especially if the DNS doesn't work.
th'engineer
30-11-2003, 15:35
But they do thats the point, and they provide a crap service with them.
If they didn't want to provide all that stuff then they should have sold the product as a basic connection to the net, nothing more.
For £24.99 a month its a bloody expensive "basic connection to the net" don't you think , especially if the DNS doesn't work.Quite agree with you on this with all the problems we should be payed to take the service :p can honestly say it never passes a week without sime problem or the other with NTL.
DNS e-mail newsgroups Ubrs all preventable with maintainance and back up systems
Quite agree with you on this with all the problems we should be payed to take the service :p can honestly say it never passes a week without sime problem or the other with NTL.
DNS e-nail newsgroups Ubrs all preventable with maintainance and back up systems
e-nail? Not heard of that, is it some kind of virtual DIY?
th'engineer
30-11-2003, 15:58
e-nail? Not heard of that, is it some kind of virtual DIY?
Virtual Diy keeping a NTL connection:)
Ignition
30-11-2003, 17:18
I'm a little lost in all of this, but, being a member of IEEE's Communications Society (I like telecommunications), some of this stuff interests me. What is EuroDocsis? Is that some bastar*dization of DOCSIS 1.1 or 2.0?
Do you guys in England have Tx lines or Ex lines?
Hi Jerrek.
EuroDOCSIS is another development of DOCSIS standard, it supplies a downstream of 38Mbit/s at QAM64 modulation rather than the standard DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 27Mbit/s, with no extra demands on carrier-noise ratio IIRC.
England, in common with pretty much everyone else except North America ;) has Ex lines and STMx lines not OCx lines :)
Indeed. Japan has Jx lines by the way. BBKing also messaged me with a few points how EuroDOCSIS differs from DOCSIS. Most important is the 8 vs 6 MHz bandwidth.
Ignition
30-11-2003, 21:57
Yip the only real issue is making sure there's an 8MHz rather than a 6MHz wide band clean enough for transmission.
I objected to paying £34pm for a 1 meg service that was barely faster than 600k, and i cant say i,m overwhelmed by the speed of 600k, but its cheaper. So why i would want to pay more, would take some thinking about.
No point in taxing the already overtaxed ntl network. ;)
DrAwesome
01-12-2003, 17:05
I objected to paying £34pm for a 1 meg service that was barely faster than 600k, and i cant say i,m overwhelmed by the speed of 600k, but its cheaper. So why i would want to pay more, would take some thinking about.
No point in taxing the already overtaxed ntl network. ;)
If your dissatisfied and you feel that your not getting vfm the simple solution is to go back to dialup, its cheaper than 600k and then you wont be contibuting to the overtaxed NTL BB network :)
I remember (way back) when customers were asking for a 1meg service and NTL's reply was basically it will never happen because there isnt enough customers that want it, (we now have a 1meg service) in order for ntl to be competitive they must invest in a faster service to give their domestic home customers further options to spend more of their hard earned cash otherwise they will be left behind by the compitition.
What instead of complaining??
NTL advertised 1meg amongst other things for "high speed gaming", a reason why i got it, and it was for about 3 months. After that it became a 750k connection. I dont mind paying for goods that are as they are supposed to be, not what they are'nt. :)
Ive had adsl for 2yrs, and over 10 on the inet, so yeh i know exactly what "value" is as you put it, or are you simply not allowed to voice an opinion??
I heard this site was a little biased, but this takes the cake.
If i dont like it, just F.O. and dont complain?
If NTL HAD the money to invest in the current setup it would be miles better, but a lot dont think they have. Unless you know different, and if its not that bad why are there so many complaints about the same problems over and over again?
Indeed. Japan has Jx lines by the way. BBKing also messaged me with a few points how EuroDOCSIS differs from DOCSIS. Most important is the 8 vs 6 MHz bandwidth.
and JApan has J-Docsis. Docsis type down stream, EuroDocsis Up Stream.
There's really no point in this poll/thread Stuart (sorry), as ntl have no plans to launch a 2 meg service-Aizad Hussain (MD of ntl:home) has told me personally that he has no interest in a 2 meg service & the kind of 'bandwith hoggers' he thinks it would bring.
How unbelievably arrogant of Mr Hussain. 'We don't want to introduce a 2mb service in case we attract customers who actually want to use it.'
Somebody sack him and replace him with an MD who understands what broadband internet is for!
tizer2000uk
08-12-2003, 15:29
Its a sad state of affairs if NTL decide not to provide a 2mb+ service in the near future as BT and its affiliates will steal the march yet again on speed for good.
This coupled with the fact that NTL are not willing to provide the other half of 6 back to back terrace houses for whatever reason, thats right the house behind my girlfriends has broadband and she cant have it because the wont go the fifteen metres through a car park and along a footpath! My 5 years of business with NTL is shortly coming to an end.
Ah well!
Its a sad state of affairs if NTL decide not to provide a 2mb+ service in the near future as BT and its affiliates will steal the march yet again on speed for good.
This coupled with the fact that NTL are not willing to provide the other half of 6 back to back terrace houses for whatever reason, thats right the house behind my girlfriends has broadband and she cant have it because the wont go the fifteen metres through a car park and along a footpath! My 5 years of business with NTL is shortly coming to an end.
Ah well!
The short-sightedness of all this is NTL think they don't have any competition. The distance-from-exchange problems you get with ADSL are even worse at 1mb than they are at 512k, so I don't imagine we'll be seeing any significant offering of 2mb ADSL for some time to come. And of course, Telewest covers a different area to NTL, so their 2mb service isn't a threat.
What NTL really don't seem to have factored in is that other technologies offering super-high-speed broadband via powerlines or wirelessly are proving themselves in tests, and seem to be able to offer customers an entry-level service that makes NTL 'broadband' seem positively pedestrian. If they don't move to establish themselves in the market sooner rather than later, they are going to start losing custom hand over fist. And they think they've got cashflow problems now ...
etccarmageddon
08-12-2003, 16:00
How unbelievably arrogant of Mr Hussain. 'We don't want to introduce a 2mb service in case we attract customers who actually want to use it.'
Somebody sack him and replace him with an MD who understands what broadband internet is for!
too right baby!
but I suspect he is pitching NTL at the mass general market - the kind of broadband mcdonalds would dish out.
DrAwesome
08-12-2003, 16:06
BT has extended the distance limit from the exchange to 6km instead of 5.5km so even more people are able to get adsl and although BT only offer 512k atm they are trialing a 1meg service which customers are allowed to join, adsl ISP's such as Bulldog etc already offer a 2meg+ service at a very competitive/good price if adsl problems were major at 2/1meg there would be alot of customers complaining and leaving the adsl isp's (in droves) that offer the 1meg+ service..
The cheapest adsl 2meg (always, not just at peak times and weekends) service i have come across is around £42 a month (£7.01 more than what NTL charge for their 1meg service) and i have heard its going to get cheaper.
Chrysalis
11-12-2003, 22:57
if you want to compare to BT ipstream then sure
BT a while ago drastically dropped the 20:1 prices so plusnet have started selling them to home customers, also nildram are doing this as well I think, these 1mbit and 2mbit services are available to every ADSL enabled exchange not just central london.
I am balancing the argument here.
so the facts are blueyonder offer 2mbit and seem to have it working fine
isp's selling BT adsl offer 2mbit again are managing fine
ntl is now lagging behind on 1mbit AND has a cap on the service, seriously lagging behind.
Chrysalis
11-12-2003, 23:00
Mr Hussain needs to go, it wouldnt surprise me if he is single handedly to blame for all the problems of lack of progress (no 2mbit and some areas not been upgraded to digital)
DrAwesome
11-12-2003, 23:17
Mr Hussain needs to go, it wouldnt surprise me if he is single handedly to blame for all the problems of lack of progress (no 2mbit and some areas not been upgraded to digital)
NTL's Marketing Department they have alot to answer for as its NTL's Marketing Department that is supose to keep NTL's prices competitive/keep NTL a competitive player amongst the broadband isp's, NTL have 1,332,000 users/Subscribers where is all the money going each month?
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