View Full Version : grrrrrrr ntl!
So i got like home from work today and I have a bill for my telephone of £35.06.
Bear in mind all my previous NTL bills for telephone have been no more than £3 this has come as quite a shock.
I used to have NTL phone, tv and BB but dropped tv in march 2004.
I have not been charged a phone line rental and only BB since 2004 and when i cancelled tv i wasn't told a line rental charge applied.
Turns out today I have been charged 07 Jan - 15 mar Telco line rental of £24.06 and 16 mar - 15 apr £10.50 suddenly jumping my bill to £34.56 as opposed to average £2.
I called NTL and spoke to Lucinda who was extremely helpfull. She said NTL had wrongly not charged me and so had decided it was about time they changed to charge me line rental back dated to the start of the year.
I tried to explain under the DD policy NTL had broken the agreement and had wrongly charged me without prior notification and Lucinda had agreed to raise a complaint for me (i am expecting a manager call back within 24 hours).
How can NTL suddenly change what they charge me? As far as I can tell, this money has now left my account and it's going to be a struggle to get it backm but hell I will fight with all I have to get it back.
I have given my 30 days notice on my phone line and NTL better stick to it.
Lucinda has said to me it was an NTL mistake that I havent been charged, but as far as I am concerned, NTL have broken their DD agreement and over charged my without my concent and if I dont receive suitable reimbursement I will report NTL to the DD strandards commision (when I find out who they are!) ;)
I have had many years with NTL and have not been one of those who have bitched and moaned about them but suddenly they take £34 more than I have given them permission to take and in my eyes have borken the DD agreement which does not prove good for customer relations.
What do people think? am I being harsh? Have NTL indeed broken the DD agreement in a sudden charge becasue they made a boo boo?
Lets see what is said if the manager indeed calls me back. Pain in the back side tbh!!! :td:
As far as I can see, if they should have been charging you and weren't, then they have the right to correct that error and charge you - however, I'm pretty sure they can't do that without notifying you first.
thats what i said to NTL.
if it was an error you are entitled to charge me but you need to notify me fist.
this was not done and I feel I am entitled to my money back!
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:12
Your not the first person this has happend to from threads I have read here on this site, NTL make offers but then the NTL audit team come along and say "oi this one is getting something he/she ain't paying for"!
They than start charging you for it and they normally back bill you the three months!
They can do this!
Was this an error or an offer?
However they have to give you prior notice before taking any DD for non standard charges!
(well I think, you had better confirm that with your bank)
Unless you have incurred any charges by your bank I don't think there is much you can do!
Think of it this way, you had free line rental for some time!
EDIT: Actually if this was a billing error then you have to notify them you are receiving a service you are not paying for! It is in their terms & conditions so they prob did the right thing. You must of known you were getting the telco for free other than paying for calls that is!
If you pay by standing order, it is up to your bank to send the payment. If you pay by direct debit, it is up to the payeeââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s bank to call for the payment, but you will rightly look to your own bank/building society to ensure the smooth running of any direct debits. Mistakes and errors are covered by the direct debit guarantee.
The direct debit guarantee applies to all banks and building societies taking part in the direct debit scheme. It says that:
# If there is a change in the amount to be paid or the payment date, the person receiving the payment (the originator) must notify the customer in advance.
* If the originator or the bank/building society makes an error, the customer is guaranteed a full and immediate refund of the amount paid.
* Customers can cancel a direct debit at any time by writing to their bank or building society.
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:21
But this is not a mistake or an error?
You owe the money!
You can't sit there and take something when you know you ain't paying for it when you should and then complain when they catch up with you and bill you for it!
Sorry but i'm with NTL on this one and that is rare!
NTL should have sent you a bill anyway showing the charges for this month, so you would have known prior to the DD been taken what they would be requesting and what it is for. or am I wrong?
This was a billing error, the reason you were not charged line rental or was it an offer made by NTL that you get it for free?
when i cancelled tv in 2004 i was informed that nothing would chnage on my account and nothing did.
suddenly i received a bill today back dated to jan 07 for line rental.
i was never aware line rental was due or indeed chargeable.
as far as i was concerned line rental was included in my BB charges.
homealone
13-03-2006, 20:26
yes
A Direct Debit is an instruction from a customer to their bank or building society authorising an organisation to collect varying amounts from their account, as long as the customer has been given advance notice of the collection amounts and dates.
and you have the following rights (from the same site as the above quote)
http://www.bacs.co.uk/BPSL/directdebit/generalpublic/yourrights/
- however, you will still owe NTL the money, if you do go for a refund.
Personally, I would accept the charges, but make sure I complained to NTL about no prior notice of the amount to be taken - assuming this was the case? As the coolwelshbloke said, at the end of the day you have had free line rental for nearly 9 months :)
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:28
If you pay a fixed bill by DD then they don't have to send you a bill every month just a letter at the start telling you on what day of every month they will debit the money on.
NTL do not do fixed bills unless you have just BB, so you should receive a bill every month normally ten days prior to them requesting the money.
I pay via credit card over the phone every month so I get an invoice every month. I have never paid NTL via DD due to some of the horror stories I have read but am I correct in saying you have a monthly bill?
ok. from that, ntl havent taken money and I can cancell the DD? I shall do.
if NTL feel I owe the money theu must enter negotiations with me. I am prepared to do that.
i have recieved free line rental for 2 years. this was the service I was expecting and if it has changed I reserve the right to cancel before further charges are taken?
---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------
I pay via credit card over the phone every month so I get an invoice every month. I have never paid NTL via DD due to some of the horror stories I have read but am I correct in saying you have a monthly bill?
I am interested in this. I never knew it was possible!
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:31
Which ever way you look at it you have had a free phone service for two years!
NTL never said they were giving you free line rental, and you must have known what NTL charge for broadband!
Personally I think your just miffed they caught you!
Just pay what they ask as your the one who has come out better off in my opinion!
homealone
13-03-2006, 20:32
when i cancelled tv in 2004 i was informed that nothing would chnage on my account and nothing did.
suddenly i received a bill today back dated to jan 07 for line rental.
i was never aware line rental was due or indeed chargeable.
as far as i was concerned line rental was included in my BB charges.
that is where the misunderstanding has arisen - you cancelled TV, the line rental was included in that charge, you stopped paying for the TV part of the subs, but were still liable for the remaining line rental.
Unfortunately being unaware of a liability is no defence and I believe NTL only charging you for 3 months rather than a whole year is, actually, pretty generous - sorry ;)
I pay via credit card over the phone every month so I get an invoice every month. I have never paid NTL via DD due to some of the horror stories I have read but am I correct in saying you have a monthly bill?Do they charge you extra for that ? most companies do.
i think you misunderstand.
when i cancelled tv i was infomred that the line rental was included in my BB charge. i was not made aware it carried a seperate charge.
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:37
Do they charge you extra for that ? most companies do.
No they do not charge me for this, well I use a debit card if i'm honest, if that makes any difference. I pay all my bills this way apart from sky who I have a DD setup and the TV license.
Nobody has ever charged me for paying this way if i'm honest!
Actually, I am paying a £2 surcharge every month to NTL which shows up as a non direct debit charge so yes I am paying extra for it!
Telephone line rental has never been part of the BB package, they are two seperate services and charges, tbh I think you're lucky to have not paid for it all this time. As far as I can see from what you've said, the charge is correct and payable
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:40
I agree with Marge, and that has never happend before! :D
Telephone line rental has never been part of the BB package, they are two seperate services and charges, tbh I think you're lucky to have not paid for it all this time. As far as I can see from what you've said, the charge is correct and payable
ok but should the money be taken from me without prior notice??
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:40
Do you not get any bills from NTL in the post?
yes. i got a bill today saying i would be charged £35.06.
i usually get a bill saying £1.50/£2.00 (BB is billed seperate).
UncleBooBoo
13-03-2006, 20:49
Have they actually taken the money?
Remember it's 10 days from the date on your bill they are supposed to request the money!
---------- Post added at 20:49 ---------- Previous post was at 20:42 ----------
If they take the money early you can get the payment reversed but you will still owe the money. If you fail to make the payment they will take you to court and you will end up with court charges to pay on top of the original bill.
For the sake of £30 it ain't worth the hassle and after all you do owe them the money!
Just be happy you have had a free phone service for two years!
ok but should the money be taken from me without prior notice??
The billing system that you are on automatically sends out a bill every month and on this bill should be the amount to be claimed and the date so in that respect then you have been notified of the charges and given notice.
Banks and Building Societies do refund to customers under the DD indemnity so you could claim back via that however ntl would look to claim the money by other means from you so you'd be back to square one as technically the only error is that the line rental wasn't applied back in 2004 when the tv was cancelled.
I do sympathise with you as this may have come as quite a surprise but as I said earlier it all does look correct to me. Maybe if you aren't using the telephone line a lot then look to cancelling that and get yourself a cheap PAYG mobile deal instead.
homealone
13-03-2006, 21:03
Sorry Acathla, I can understand you being aggrieved at it seemingly coming 'out of the blue' like that, but NTL are compliant with the DD agreement, having sent you advance notice of the amount to be taken.
Whatever the 'pros & cons' you owe them for the line rental, if you cancel the DD they will just call in a debt collection agency, honestly, it isn't worth the hassle.
- not saying it is ideal, but in my opinion it could be a lot worse. :)
<edit> good advice from Marge :tu:
i have taken the decision to cancel my DD and argue the case with NTL. you may think I should just accept it but I was never taught to accept less than what I expected.
I have given 30 days notice to cancel my phone line and will not be continuing that service with NTL.
homealone
13-03-2006, 21:43
i have taken the decision to cancel my DD and argue the case with NTL. you may think I should just accept it but I was never taught to accept less than what I expected.
I have given 30 days notice to cancel my phone line and will not be continuing that service with NTL.
good about the phone, probably for the best :tu:
- look Acathla, I have no axe to grind, here, but please can I ask you to look at your stance on the phone rental in context of the real world?
NTL have provided, and you have accepted, a phone service which has documented charges & tariffs.
Due to an oversight you were not charged for the 'line rental' part of those charges.
When NTL discovered this, they waived most of the debt, and billed you for what they will call a 'reasonable' charge, which they will potentially seek to recover.
Bear in mind this may involve court actions, possibly even bailiffs..
- is it worth it?
my concern is if NTL had come to me 3 months ago (even this month) and said 'oops we err'd and we forgot to charge you can we charge you from start of '06 and call it quits?' i would have probably been more than happy to agree. point being, if I was going to be charged line rental I would have cancelled the same time as my TV.
they cant take my money without consent. I have given permission to NTL to take the DD amount assuming it is around the same amount every month. they have increased my bill without notice and i feel i deserve an apology and await a manager callback to sort this out.
they cant take my money without consent. I have given permission to NTL to take the DD amount assuming it is around the same amount every month. they have increased my bill without notice and i feel i deserve an apology and await a manager callback to sort this out.
But you have given them consent to take the money, that's the whole point of the DD scheme, all a company has to do is give you notice of when and how much they will be taking. A DD is not a fixed amount each month, the amounts are variable and as a side note this is why it's important to check your bank statement and bills every month.
so when a strange amount appears I am entitled to query it and prevent it going through untill the amount is agreed? i havent given NTL to charge what they like when they like!
homealone
13-03-2006, 22:18
my concern is if NTL had come to me 3 months ago (even this month) and said 'oops we err'd and we forgot to charge you can we charge you from start of '06 and call it quits?' i would have probably been more than happy to agree. point being, if I was going to be charged line rental I would have cancelled the same time as my TV.
they cant take my money without consent. I have given permission to NTL to take the DD amount assuming it is around the same amount every month. they have increased my bill without notice and i feel i deserve an apology and await a manager callback to sort this out.
well let us know how you get on, but the whole point of a direct debit, over a standing order, is that the amount can vary, provided they inform you of the amount they are taking. You say 'without notice' - your bill 'is' the notice. :erm:
I can't get my head round how you have had 9 months free phoneline & still think NTL are at fault :shrug:
- as Incog would say, time for me to 'unsubscribe' :dozey:
No they do not charge me for this........ Nobody has ever charged me for paying this way if i'm honest!
Actually, I am paying a £2 surcharge every month to NTL which shows up as a non direct debit charge so yes I am paying extra for it!
You just love to contradict yourself don't you!:rolleyes:
my concern is if NTL had come to me 3 months ago (even this month) and said 'oops we err'd and we forgot to charge you can we charge you from start of '06 and call it quits?' i would have probably been more than happy to agree. point being, if I was going to be charged line rental I would have cancelled the same time as my TV.
they cant take my money without consent. I have given permission to NTL to take the DD amount assuming it is around the same amount every month. they have increased my bill without notice and i feel i deserve an apology and await a manager callback to sort this out.
well let us know how you get on, but the whole point of a direct debit, over a standing order, is that the amount can vary, provided they inform you of the amount they are taking. You say 'without notice' - your bill 'is' the notice. :erm:
I can't get my head round how you have had 9 months free phoneline & still think NTL are at fault :shrug:
- as Incog would say, time for me to 'unsubscribe' :dozey:
Too true. I've just read this entire thread and although I sympathise with Acathla about the bill suddenly increasing I cannot see how NTL are at fault for asking for payment of the service given.
Acathla you have recieved your telephone service at a much reduced rate for a long time now and have saved a lot more than £30. Is it worth a credit blacklisting just for the sake of paying the £30 that you have been given advanced notice of via your bill?
NTL made a mistake that they are rectifying but your stance on this is totally unreasonable in my view. Cancelling your DD agreement on purpose to try and avoid paying a fee that you have acrued over 2 years is silly in my opinion and the repercussions from this action could cost you a lot more in the future if legal action is invoked because of it.
Acathla please take note of the good advice and information you have been given in this thread, I for one would thank Marge for her posts as she knows A LOT about NTL billing etc. Do yourself a favour and pay the bill, getting a black mark on your credit history can and will cause headaches in the future.
roseandjim
14-03-2006, 08:49
Just a thought - if ntl do start debt recovery from Acathla would they then be entitled to collect the full amount owed - also in the two years that Acathla was not paying line rental did he not get a charges leaflet in with his bill as I seem to get them quite often?
UncleBooBoo
14-03-2006, 09:14
You just love to contradict yourself
It's because I thought of it at the end of my sentence, no NTL do not charge me a dedicated amount for using my debit card!
But on the other hand I get billed a £2 non payment by DD charge so I guess in a way I am paying a charge!
Depends on which way you look at it!
Why what is your problem????
It is important for me to point that out just in case somebody who is currently paying by DD may decide to cancel it and pay monthly by card like I do. If they decide to do this then they need to be aware that they will be charged a monthly fee of £2 to do this!
Sorry to burst your bubble Shaun! :rolleyes:
White Tiger
14-03-2006, 10:32
To be honest, I think the OP is getting worked up about something relatively trivial. Actually paying ntl what I owe them has never been a problem for me!
Paying them for services I don't have, waiting in for engineers who don't turn up, being repeatedly ignored by customer services etc etc etc - that's what really gets me hacks me off.
UncleBooBoo
14-03-2006, 11:20
To be honest, I think the OP is getting worked up about something relatively trivial. Actually paying ntl what I owe them has never been a problem for me!
Paying them for services I don't have, waiting in for engineers who don't turn up, being repeatedly ignored by customer services etc etc etc - that's what really gets me hacks me off.
I couldn't agree more, it sounds to me that the op is looking for reasons not to pay the £30 but I think he/she will find if they don't pay up then it will come back to bite him/her in the behind!
Hardly worth the hassle over £30!
Hey I am sure everyone would agree with me when I say £30 for two years phone service is a bloody good buy! ;)
Had the same problem myself... so i do understand.
I dumped my phone service but have TV/BB, CS stated that i would only be billed for TV/BB.. fine for two months... but then found a charge for line rental on my bill. Nothing i could do, no matter how much i questioned. Unless i wanted to go down the legal road, Really not worth doing! even if you have a good case to argue.
Your lucky im still within my 12 months... im stuck in limbo for the time being.
As others have said...Just pay.. learn and move on seems to be the best advice.
Unless you know a bored corprate lawyer that will work for free... If you do PM me :)
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