Let us have the truth about the closure and this site

[carlingman]

I like many others are beginning to get a bit a confused here.

Firstly I would like to offer my sincere condolences to Andres family and friends.

I am sorry to hear this even though I never knew him personally.

My first question although I know it will be never answered in public is, Is Frank the co owner of this site as a contingency plan for when NTL shafted him ???

My second query is about a particular post made by a so called Craig J on another forum found here (http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=3320&st=0)

Posted By Craig J



I am extremely sorry to hear this even though I had never met or had any contact with this person.

I also agree wholeheartedly with you about this being SICK and I also agree with what erolz has said about this now being taken to a whole new level of nastiness.

Andre was a real person and a close friend of Neil. Neil asked his friend if he could use his name as the registered owner of .co.uk - at NO time did the *real*Andre have anything whatsever to do with .co.uk in any hands on capacity ... neither was he even registered on the site.

Andre when posting (which was and is Neil), about an illness was telling the truth, but telling the truth related to the real Andre.

The named registered owner of the site was changed to Paul Goodson ( another friend of Neils ) when Ash G told us on a conference call that he had asked ntl's legal department to contact the registered owner of .co.uk. Because the *real* Andre was ill, I said to Neil that he (the real Andre) could do without the hassle of being contacted and Neil fully agreed, hence the reason why Paul Goodson now shows up as the registered owner.

I apologise to Russ for asking this, but in light of this tragic news, I have to ask him to speak up and not let this farce continue any longer.

I really don't want to discuss this anymore in public, and *am* genuinely sorry to hear the news.

Now what alarms me is the fact that a Mod from here is posting in that very thread and not confirming or denying it.

Now considering Andres death has just been announced here I really find this disgusting and way beyond a sick joke.

:(

[Russ]

Andre's death is no joke.

[Sociable]

Andre's death is no joke.

In all fairness Russ this is not what is being suggested but if what has been said is true then it goes way beyond that.

Given the very sad news of the death I posted a request in two threads that all speculation should be suspended for a decent time as any death is truly tragic.

If, however, a death is being used to mask the truth in the way suggested it makes a mockery of all the calls for trust that so many of us have relied on both at .com and now here. It would also be a shameful disrespect of Andre's memory and the grieving of his close family and friends.

A simple statement by Neil confirming absolutely nothing of what has been claimed has any grain of thruth whatsoever is now the best and maybe only way out of this. This needs to be a catagorical and clear denial of all the claims that have been made not simply a refusal to confirm them.

If any part of the claims has more than a grain of truth to it then now is the time to make a clean breast of things not hide behind what every single person accepts is a sad and tragic event.

Either way the best memorial to Andre will be the truth whatever that truth may be.

I make no claim at all to know anything at all about what is the real truth in this matter but it is clear Neil does. He owes it to his friend if no one else to be completely open and honest now. The same applies to anyone else that is able to confirm or deny specific aspects of the matter not by speculation but by personal knowledge.

EDIT: I took on trust assurances given by both Neil and Craig and so feel personally let down. One or other has breached the trust I placed in them and also breached the trust placed in them by all the members of both communities.

In this anonymous faceless world of the net that trust is all we have please don't take that trust away and make a clear and uniquivicable statement on this matter and please do so before Andre's name is tarnished any further by the squable between two individuals.

[ic14]

I think that if that really is craig j then he is just posting sick lies.....
Something like this should not be posted...

[Alanmelon]

I have to admit that I have no idea as to the history or details of some of the comments here, but something I find a little disturbing is the insistence by some that either this site or .com have/had a responsibility to their users. It's almost as if certain people think they are owed something. As I have said before, at the end of the day, these are just help/comment forums. "Trust" has nothing to do with it, it's not like you're leaving them to babysit your kids! What the mods/owners of these sites do or have done is of no business to the users of the forums, you are not owed an explanation, and if they wanted to, they could shut this site down. I wouldn't expect an explanation or a cheque in the post for my troubles!

I know that there are those who are going to say (re.com) that ntl does have a responsibility to it's customers. Fair point, but lets just see how the whole community thing pans out. ntl do not have a responsibility to provide a forum for people to simply moan and $lag them off.

I don't want to start any conflict here, but I think some need to step back, take a look at the bigger picture, and see this site for what it really is.

[etccarmageddon]

unlike you, I have no wish to blindly follow my self appointed leaders. had enough of that when I trusted and blindly followed Craig J!

[basa]

I have to admit that I have no idea as to the history or details of some of the comments here, but something I find a little disturbing is the insistence by some that either this site or .com have/had a responsibility to their users. It's almost as if certain people think they are owed something. As I have said before, at the end of the day, these are just help/comment forums. "Trust" has nothing to do with it, it's not like you're leaving them to babysit your kids! What the mods/owners of these sites do or have done is of no business to the users of the forums, you are not owed an explanation, and if they wanted to, they could shut this site down. I wouldn't expect an explanation or a cheque in the post for my troubles!

I know that there are those who are going to say (re.com) that ntl does have a responsibility to it's customers. Fair point, but lets just see how the whole community thing pans out. ntl do not have a responsibility to provide a forum for people to simply moan and $lag them off.

I don't want to start any conflict here, but I think some need to step back, take a look at the bigger picture, and see this site for what it really is.

I do see where you are coming from Alan, but, do you not think that when you have been an active member of a forum for a long time you tend to develop a sense of belonging to a community. If you then discover that the 'leaders' of that community have lied to you and deceived you, would you feel betrayed ??

Again and IMO more importantly, some members entrust personal info to these leaders in problem solving. A certain amount of trust is invoved then to feel that personal info is not going to be misused.

That is why this issue is tantamount.

[etccarmageddon]

search through micks posts and find this...

Quite frankly handyman, you have no idea and what or who your dealing with when it comes down to Craig. I noticed you backed him up in that thread I removed the other night and your still backing him up, funny that, have you been having private msn conversations ? Pitty he didn't tell you about the time when we were taking on moderators, that I recommended you for moderator position on nthw.com and he said 'no way'.

When I was 'Minder' back in Feb of this year I was approached by Craig, asked if I would be interested in moderating nthw.com, who wouldn't miss an opportunity to moderate one of the best forums out there? Of course I said I was interested, but Craig did say that there is more to moderating that site than meets the eye, he made it sound dead complicated.

So I became a moderator, anyone remember Mike B? He was still a mod when I became a moderator, but he was off due to personal problems, but Mike came back, when he did, he made an error, not his fault and Craig ripped him to bits right in front of me (I had only been there a few weeks) in our admin area, the next day Mike B left the team and not a word was mentioned about his departure. I never really got to know Mike B but nevermind - suppose it would of been interesting having two Michael's on the team. But it was not to be.

In June this year, the bombshell was dropped that nthellworld.com would lose its ntl forums for community (a death sentence to nthw.com in anyones eyes) and it was not known if we were going to be a part of it. As the weeks went by, Frank was off due to personal problems, there was no actual 'management' figure visable to the team, Craig took huge advantage of this and took a month away from the site (Unofficial) though he would come back and heavily deny that.

We all took this stance that if one of us was to be took to community, we all go, this is something we all agreed on. A few weeks passed and Craig saw a job opportunity, if he was offered one?? Who knows but he changed his tune dramatically, he took the stance of 'I am looking after number one now' and he meant it. We saw him posting his posts with a sudden spate of all these smilies in his posts, how fake was that? He would choose to be on that board 24/7 and if you ask why you only saw him, modding with him you used to trip over one another, I would be moving a thread that he was also trying to move.

He also at times, liked to moderate not only the members but the team too, he would phone one of us up and we would get a ticking off that this and that thread had not been moved, oh dear Neil has left a redirect. He would often say 'I saw what you was doing, 'Yeah I noticed you moved that thread.' I also remember the times when Frank used to be watching on whose online and Craig would log out because he himself did not like being watched.

Frank came back from his absence, I remember Craig's reaction lets just say I do not think Craig was impressed. (Remember the job opportunity, put two and two together and you do get 4).

Then there were the issues with Ben, Ben was not up to Craig's standards, so he made Ben's life on the board a misery, he would ignore him, he would not work with him, he would whinge to either me or Neil that he's no good,we need to get rid of him. Notice that Ben remained a moderator, until recently he is now an Admin.

Then became the backstabbing incident, Craig was mouthing off to someone about how he is the site and that he is always there (His choice because he does not work for a living) I told him that it was his own choice but he ignored my views and went on saying that it was only him looking after the place. I had my reasons for taking time away from the site, yet I did not see what it had to do with Craig, he was not the site editor, but he often always played the part, I remember he re-closed a thread Frank had opened that is how he was and he was close to being booted out a few times.

So some of you might be feeling sorry for Craig because of the way he is being treated, but I am sorry to say that he should of known better to come out with crap about who is running here, he was suspended for four weeks with a view to coming back, now that he has mouthed off this nonsense, I cannot say that he is coming back but if he does, then I walk, I might have to leave after posting this but I have to say he cannot be trusted, he help run two other forums that he also got banned from eventually. I have come to to the conclusion that he cannot be trusted with the position he is put into when running a forum and that is coming from somebody on the inside who has worked with him.

in the above comments Mick refers to Craig as "mouthed off this nonsense" - that in my opinion is a complete denial that Mick is secretly Dr Pepper on this site or whatever the mod on here Craig is saying Mick is!

So either Mick has lied to us or Craig has. simple.


"he should of known better to come out with crap about who is running here"
- this is another strong denial in my opinion.

[Alanmelon]

A forum cannot operate without the mods and Admins (or at least most of them) having the respect of the members.
(Removes lid from worm can)
Sorry, but I disagree with you on that one. Mods and admins are not there to be respected (or "followed"?! as one put it) but to run the forum in a sensible and constructive manner. I fully believe that a forum can operate without the need for respect of it's admins.
(Scatters worms freely around)

[basa]

(Removes lid from worm can)
Sorry, but I disagree with you on that one. Mods and admins are not there to be respected (or "followed"?! as one put it) but to run the forum in a sensible and constructive manner. I fully believe that a forum can operate without the need for respect of it's admins.
(Scatters worms freely around)

Well that is up to you of course, but I for one would prefer to deal with people who, whilst may prefer to retain anonymity, have not deliberately lied to me or tried to deceive me (if it transpires that is what they have done).

[Florence]

I would say its Craig that is still trying to bring these forums down so he will be number one on community like he was trying to do with Ashg. Boasting he can run the forums entirely on his own, also trying for a pay rise. His words not mine!

[Undisputedtruth]

My feeling on this subject is both parties, Craig and Neil are telling the truth as they see it and where there are differences I will put it down to a misunderstanding.

In all fairness to Neil, I don't think Neil is using the death of Andre to mask the fact that he was using the name of Andre. The real 'Andre' would be far to ILL too post anything at all.

[erol]

It has been alledged that the posts here under the nickname 'Andre' were in fact written by Neil. If this is true then to allow people to think otherwise, given the tragic circumstances of the real Andre, is simply disgusting imo.

Are the posting here under the name 'Andre' consistent with having been written by Neil ? All I would say is have a look at this post.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6831&postcount=17

and make up your own mind.

If people here truely want to honour the memory of Andre, then they should come clean abour who was using that nickname in the past. To not do so is just dispicable.

[Maggy]

I also remember when CraigJ was known as compunightmare at .com.He was a completely different character as compunightmare to the persona I had dealings with as CraigJ.So I'm taking his comments with a great deal of salt.I'm also doing the same with everyone else who posts here or ANYWHERE on the net.We have to most of the time.Unless you meet someone for real you can't really know that they are who they are(and even then you can't be sure unless you meet them very regularly).

Now will all the disaffected .commers please shut up :nono: about your conspiracy theories and stop trying to ruin this site as well.
Not so long ago I gave you a good welcome and asked that you all think of this as a fresh start and a chance for fresh topics but here we are back to OLD topics.

Time to leave it or this site methinks if you can't even do that so if you like to bicker go over to nt:hell and do so there.PLEASE!

Incog.

[etccarmageddon]

who's bickering?

[Sociable]

in the above comments Mick refers to Craig as "mouthed off this nonsense" - that in my opinion is a complete denial that Mick is secretly Dr Pepper on this site or whatever the mod on here Craig is saying Mick is!

So either Mick has lied to us or Craig has. simple.

"he should of known better to come out with crap about who is running here"
- this is another strong denial in my opinion.

Actually it would appear nobody has actually made any denial.

Saying what he does about Craig doesnt ammount to a denial in fact the absence of any clear uniquivicable denial says more like "He may be telling the truth but he is a nasty piece of work so just ignore it." or words to that effect.

This has absoloutely nothing to do with who is a nice guy or not it is simply a matter of trust. Based on the "evidence" so far, neither of the "Players" in this drama comes out squaky clean and we all deserve far better from those that take on positions of trust.

The reason for the very specific wording in my first post in this thread is not necessarilly to even know the truth right now it is simply to get on record a clear statement of fact from the individuals concerned in order that should the "truth" ever become clear everyone will be able to refer back to those statements when making any future decison to place trust in the person making them.

Clever replies that can be read either way to cover backs will no longer suffice we have all had far to much of that from NTL and others in the past. Nor will personal attacks on the integrity of the parties. Just because you don't like the person delivering the post won't change the truth of the content of any letters they deliver.

Yes Craig has created a "Have you stopped beating your wife?" proposition but the response "I didn't stop because I never started" response is possible. Relying on every single dot and comma not being 100% accurate does not, however justify such a response.

EDIT: Just to point out one undeniable "Fact". Craig has clearly nailed his own reputation to the mast on this issue should it later be established it was all nonsense his reputation will be forever tarnished.

Anyone else not willing to expose themseleves to the same risk should IMHO be very careful how they post on this issue as one way or another there is going to be a lot of egg on faces at the end of this saga.

[basa]

Are the posting here under the name 'Andre' consistent with having been written by Neil ? All I would say is have a look at this post.

<link>

and make up your own mind.

Hmmm....intriguing I'd say :erm:

[Undisputedtruth]

It has been alledged that the posts here under the nickname 'Andre' were in fact written by Neil. If this is true then to allow people to think otherwise, given the tragic circumstances of the real Andre, is simply disgusting imo.

Are the posting here under the name 'Andre' consistent with having been written by Neil ? All I would say is have a look at this post.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=6831&postcount=17

and make up your own mind.

If people here truely want to honour the memory of Andre, then they should come clean abour who was using that nickname in the past. To not do so is just dispicable.


I must admit, this closely resembles Neil's style.

Erol, I've sent a pm on this matter at ntlhell.co.uk as this site is not secure.

[basa]

Sorry, coggy but some of us came over from .com because of the statements made by these people. Most of those asking the questions have been HERE since the very first few minutes of this site (in one form or another). It is incorrect to acuse us as "disaffected .commers"

Correct !!

[Undisputedtruth]

From the recent revelations from Craig, I suggest the only place which is secure is www.ntlhell.co.uk

Unless, the mods has something to say on this matter.

[Steve H]

Any information you exchange between mods/admins or others via PM, or any other method is treated confidentially, and is completly secure.

[Maggy]

I wonder if in the absolute need to be proven right,those making these claims just can't see that the real issue of getting NTL to be more respectful towards customers gets forgotten in all this squabbling,with the result that those who need help get scared off and the pressure on NTL lessens as the arguements continue.They seem to have no sense of proportion.

All I can say again is if you have no respect for the moderators here then why stay here?I'd never stay IF I didn't think that they do their best and actually have no agenda but that of making sure that NTL give be tter customer care and services.
However I am left wondering what agenda some of you who are asking all these questions-after all I can't be absolutely SURE who YOU are.YOU could be planted NTL workers trying to discredit this site.
I come here as a customer for the occasional help and for some fun.What are you here for?
Oh and don't say the truth because on the net seeking the truth is as hard as out in the streets of our cities.:)


Incog. :kiss:

[Alanmelon]

From the recent revelations from Craig, I suggest the only place which is secure is www.ntlhell.co.uk

Unless, the mods has something to say on this matter.
Secure?! This isn't the bloody secret service we're talking about here! What's going to happen if you communicate over non "secure" channels? Are the ntl police going to come round and smash your PC in?

I'm sorry to judge others in this way, and I know full well that I could just not view these ramblings, but it seems a shame that people are turning a perfectly innocent help forum into a conspiracy plot.

Perhaps I haven't been posting here for as long as some others and am not part of the "community", but I think that offers me something valuable called perspective.

EDIT - Too right Incognitas, at last some sensible postings!

[Myron]

Sorry, I had my head buried in the sand, that's my excuse.

Can someone bring me up to date on what's happening with `nthellworld.com` and `nthell.co.uk`?

[Stuart]

From the recent revelations from Craig, I suggest the only place which is secure is www.ntlhell.co.uk (http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/)

Unless, the mods has something to say on this matter.
UDT, why does it matter if the site is secure? Have you some detail on your profile which will allow NTL to track you down? The only thing I can think of is your IP, but seeing as you don't have NTL broadband, you are either on ADSL or dial up. Either way, it would be pretty difficult for NTL to track you down via the IP.

Also, does it matter if the mods/owners on this forum have something to do with .com or NTL themselves. As Russ has shown (as Mr. E), it is possible for NTL employees to be anti NTL.

As long as the forum is moderated fairly, I don't see why there should be a problem.

One final thing. Craig J has been dismissed as a liar and a troublemaker by various people in this forum. Why is everyone suddenly ready to believe him?

[Undisputedtruth]

Secure?! This isn't the bloody secret service we're talking about here! What's going to happen if you communicate over non "secure" channels? Are the ntl police going to come round and smash your PC in?

I'm sorry to judge others in this way, and I know full well that I could just not view these ramblings, but it seems a shame that people are turning a perfectly innocent help forum into a conspiracy plot.

Perhaps I haven't been posting here for as long as some others and am not part of the "community", but I think that offers me something valuable called perspective.

EDIT - Too right Incognitas, at last some sensible postings!

Too right, you've not been posting here long enough and perhaps you have not observed the 'cloak and dagger' activities on nthw.com or here. Craig's revelation is an interesting read and I suggest to everyone to read it. It would be informative and helpful, alan, if you knew what was going on before shouting "perspective" which, as you know is based on little information.

[Sociable]

All I can say again is if you have no respect for the moderators here then why stay here?I'd never stay IF I didn't think that they do their best and actually have no agenda but that of making sure that NTL give be tter customer care and services.

Incog. :kiss:

It is BECAUSE I want to be able to have that trust that I raise the issue had what you been saying been true would I have posted twice as follows?



Please pass on my deepest sympathy to the family Russ.

Having had to undergo almost two years of "C" scares and still awaiting the results of the lastest batch of tests and scans this sad news has hit home rather hard for me.

I had already posted a request for the recent specualtion over who was who to be paused in a spirit of peace and conciliation I now call for an enforced monitorium on the issue with nobody complaining at all about any such future posts now being deleted without explanation. :ghugs:

This was my earlier plea for :Peaceman:


Can I make an appeal to all the ex .com assylum seekers?

We have all been welcomed warmly even getting a new smiley to mark the event it seems.

Can we all try our best not to bring the problems from .com here and concentrate on the positives. This is the best thank you we can give to .co.uk for their welcome.

Yes there are some issues for .com moderation should it re-open but clean or dirty that particular piece of laundry needs to be left in the .com linen basket till the future of .com is sorted. IMHO

We achieved so much at .com to resolve the long standing factional infighting in those last few days let's not throw it all away by pi$$ing in the soup here.

This is not to stiffle debate on the issue but simply a request everyone holds off, for the relatively short time hopefully, between now and .com's future being resolved one way or another.

I have no agenda other than wanting to be able to have some degree of trust in others be that here or at .com

EDIT: Having made the above posts based on trust and respect I personally feel I may have been abused by those that took advantage of my trust it is not unreasonable to want that trust confirmed or denied.

[Undisputedtruth]

UDT, why does it matter if the site is secure? Have you some detail on your profile which will allow NTL to track you down? The only thing I can think of is your IP, but seeing as you don't have NTL broadband, you are either on ADSL or dial up. Either way, it would be pretty difficult for NTL to track you down via the IP.

Also, does it matter if the mods/owners on this forum have something to do with .com or NTL themselves. As Russ has shown (as Mr. E), it is possible for NTL employees to be anti NTL.

As long as the forum is moderated fairly, I don't see why there should be a problem.

One final thing. Craig J has been dismissed as a liar and a troublemaker by various people in this forum. Why is everyone suddenly ready to believe him?

As Craig was employed by NTL, perhaps he was a liar and a troublemaker, but revealing my PM discussions with Escapee and myself, has certainly given Craig credibility in this matter.

Personally, there is nothing in my PMs that will identify me, but the main issue is the trust and respect of the moderators on these sites. If they can stoop this low to read PMs, it just makes you think to what depths they will go.

[erol]

I wonder if in the absolute need to be proven right,those making these claims just can't see that the real issue of getting NTL to be more respectful towards customers gets forgotten in all this squabbling,with the result that those who need help get scared off and the pressure on NTL lessens as the arguements continue.They seem to have no sense of proportion.


And IF this site is being run by liers and cheats, that were / are taking money from NTL for having run / destroyed .com, who will even use the sad death of a friend ot theirs to try and manipulate the users here, then I think it entirely relevant and in proportion that they be exposed. I also do not see how you can ever expect a site run by such people (if the allegations are true) to ever put any effective pressure on NTL.


All I can say again is if you have no respect for the moderators here then why stay here?I'd never stay IF I didn't think that they do their best and actually have no agenda but that of making sure that NTL give be tter customer care and services.


I am trying to establish if the moderators here are worthy of respect or contempt, so that I can decide whether to stay here or not.



However I am left wondering what agenda some of you who are asking all these questions-after all I can't be absolutely SURE who YOU are.YOU could be planted NTL workers trying to discredit this site.


Which is why trust is so important.


I come here as a customer for the occasional help and for some fun.What are you here for?
Oh and don't say the truth because on the net seeking the truth is as hard as out in the streets of our cities.:)
Incog. :kiss:

I am here for the truth I am afraid, because no matter how hard it may or may not be to get at the truth, here on the net, or anywhere else, the truth IS important.

[Alanmelon]

It would be informative and helpful, alan, if you knew what was going on before shouting "perspective" which, as you know is based on little information.
I'm sorry, that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Perspective is based on little information? I think you'll find that perspective is the ability to see the wider picture, and suggests viewing things with an impartial eye.

Why do you have to take this whole "thing" so seriously. What would honestly be different about your life if this website were to shut down tomorrow?

EDIT - In fact, upon reflection, by being drawn into the discussion, it may suggest that I have started to take this subject seriously, which is certainly not my intention, thus this will be my final comment on the matter.

[Paul K]

When a mod wanted information from a PM I received he had to ask me to forward it to him as he couldn't access the PM systems. Now an admin will be able to access the PMs I suspect but in all fairness I would like to think that they would request permission first. Until we know otherwise I will have to trust them on that.

[dieselking]

Hello mods!!! Are u there mods!! SPEAK TO US THE MAIN MODS

All we want is to be told the truth

[Undisputedtruth]

I'm sorry, that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Perspective is based on little information? I think you'll find that perspective is the ability to see the wider picture, and suggests viewing things with an impartial eye.

Why do you have to take this whole "thing" so seriously. What would honestly be different about your life if this website were to shut down tomorrow?

I tend to disagree with your definition of perspective. Perspective means to put things or object in relation to each other. You can't put things in perspective if you don't have the facts to hand otherwise

So are you suggesting we should not discussed this matter just because your own view is different?

You already admitted you have not posted here long enough and frankly, your input on this thread does not make any sense at all. Some of us have been posting here long before you, so I hope you understand that some people do take the importance of trust and privacy seriously. Perhaps, it is you that failed to see the wider perspective?

[Sociable]

Hello mods!!! Are u there mods!! SPEAK TO US THE MAIN MODS

All we want is to be told the truth

May I add that one point we all have made over the years about NTL's main fault, including those very mods, is that hiding behind a wall of silence or "political" responses only serves to fuel the fires of disbelief.

Please don't emulate the failings of NTL but show us you are better than that.

Note to the rest of you Please don't get tied up in the detail as that is just a distraction that also prevents the truth being able to breath.

All that is needed is a simple response to the very simple questions not the dot.s and commas.

[th'engineer]

Can we not just draw a line under all this, and get on with helping people with problems instead of all this bickering. Lets just get on with it no need for all this you are just developing daft ideas. I personally can not see the point of this.

[Undisputedtruth]

Can we not just draw a line under all this, and get on with helping people with problems instead of all this bickering. Lets just get on with it no need for all this you are just developing daft ideas. I personally can not see the point of this.

Fine, if you can't see the point of this then stay away. Taking part in this thread is completely voluntary.

I very much doubt, Engineer, whether you read Craig's recent revelations, otherwise you would not of said "developing daft ideas".

Perhaps, if you don't see the point of this, then perhaps you can understand there are matters which some people want to discuss on subjects you don't know anything about.

[Undisputedtruth]

Perhaps this is the case now but on .com there is a well documented case of a mod (who is present on this site) reading a PM of a member.

It was also stated that the later versions of the software stopped this but as in my much earlier life I was a (mainframe) Database Administrator I had access to everything that was on the disc, data, application program, operating system, firmware and all private messages. Who runs this database?

Russ D had already admitted he has read PMs but according to Craig, the reading of PMs by mods is far wider than has been previouly suggested.

[Defiant]

Hello mods!!! Are u there mods!! SPEAK TO US THE MAIN MODS

All we want is to be told the truth

I doubt they will say much more until they have spoken to each other to get the stories right. They'd look rather daft if they were contradicting each other

[Defiant]

Russ D had already admitted he has read PMs but according to Craig, the reading of PMs by mods is far wider than has been previouly suggested.


I dont think Craig J can be taken at his word. He was speaking on a board that has grown thanks to him. Just about everyone on there has had a run in with him at some time but it doe's make you wonder yes...

[dieselking]

Can we not just draw a line under all this, and get on with helping people with problems instead of all this bickering. Lets just get on with it no need for all this you are just developing daft ideas. I personally can not see the point of this.


The point of this is to get to the truth because at the moment the mods on here have just disappeared & arenâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t defending themselves and/or denying the allegations. They could stop all this dissention by giving their side of the story.

[Sociable]

Can we not just draw a line under all this, and get on with helping people with problems instead of all this bickering. Lets just get on with it no need for all this you are just developing daft ideas. I personally can not see the point of this.

The individuals concerned and particulary Neil are the ones that can do just that th'engineer.

Please read my post at the start of the previous page to see why I personally am persuing this. I went out on a limb posting what did only to find this trust I placed in everyone may have been being abused by the sadest of all lies.

I'm not saying I was just that it appears I may have been.

EDIT: To reiterate my earlier point:



Yes Craig has created a "Have you stopped beating your wife?" proposition but the response "I didn't stop because I never started" response is possible. Relying on every single dot and comma not being 100% accurate does not, however justify such a response.

Just to point out one undeniable "Fact". Craig has clearly nailed his own reputation to the mast on this issue should it later be established it was all nonsense his reputation will be forever tarnished.

Anyone else not willing to expose themseleves to the same risk should IMHO be very careful how they post on this issue as one way or another there is going to be a lot of egg on faces at the end of this saga.

[Maggy]

And IF this site is being run by liers and cheats, that were / are taking money from NTL for having run / destroyed .com, who will even use the sad death of a friend ot theirs to try and manipulate the users here, then I think it entirely relevant and in proportion that they be exposed. I also do not see how you can ever expect a site run by such people (if the allegations are true) to ever put any effective pressure on NTL.



I am trying to establish if the moderators here are worthy of respect or contempt, so that I can decide whether to stay here or not.




Which is why trust is so important.



I am here for the truth I am afraid, because no matter how hard it may or may not be to get at the truth, here on the net, or anywhere else, the truth IS important.

Fine then don't be a member here.But I,after seeing how you behaved at .com am wondering who was responsible for getting .com closed?It was in the interest of the .com mods to keep it open if they were making such vast sums of money from NTL.

Incog.

[Undisputedtruth]

The point of this is to get to the truth because at the moment the mods on here have just disappeared & arenâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t defending themselves and/or denying the allegations. They could stop all this dissention by giving their side of the story.

Besides, this is better than Eastenders. :D

[Sociable]

Fine then don't be a member here.But I,after seeing how you behaved at .com am wondering who was responsible for getting .com closed?It was in the interest of the .com mods to keep it open if they were making such vast sums of money from NTL.

Incog.

But would explain the suspension of the forum if the current alegation is proved correct. Dont forget it wasn't Neil & Co that suspended the forum but NTL.

Thus far they have not confirmed why they did it but I seriously doubt it was over erol as he was already suspened as was Craig.

I also note with interest you didn't care to respond to my posts Incog care to do so now?

[number34]

Besides, this is better than Eastenders. :D
For once find myself agreeing with UDT :D
But can someone help me with the plot? Where/what thread should I read first to get the background, and is there anything on ntlhell.co.uk that can help?
(am I allowed to mention that?)

[Tricky]

The point of this is to get to the truth because at the moment the mods on here have just disappeared & arenâ₠¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t defending themselves and/or denying the allegations. They could stop all this dissention by giving their side of the story.

So what needs defending?
Can we read PM's? - Answer "I cannot" or at least not without hacking into the backend as per any other user of the internet...

[Paul]

Oh dear, the other site has only been down a day and already all the infighting and slanging matches that were a feature over there now seem to have transferred to this site :(

I hope this isn't a sign of the future for this site as well now :( :(

[Tricky]

But Tricky, when the Knapps Mods were appointed we were all told that your powers and access would be restricted. Your statement adds nothing to the debate.

That's true so why the debate regarding the mods? Or are these aimed at Admins? :confused:

[dieselking]

So what needs defending?
Can we read PM's? - Answer "I cannot" or at least not without hacking into the backend as per any other user of the internet...

I'm not on about the pms being read. I was asking about all the allegations being made about the 3 main mods (not u Tricky) That's what needs defending & i think u knew that's that I meant

[Sociable]

So what needs defending?
Can we read PM's? - Answer "I cannot" or at least not without hacking into the backend as per any other user of the internet...


Please read my original response to Russ on page 1 to find out the specific points I personally would like responded to by the key players only.

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=84761&postcount=3

It is only they that can answer the substance of the key alegation made by Craig the rest is just a distraction from that key issue.

[Undisputedtruth]

For once find myself agreeing with UDT :D
But can someone help me with the plot? Where/what thread should I read first to get the background, and is there anything on ntlhell.co.uk that can help?
(am I allowed to mention that?)

The fact you said "for once find myself agreeing with UDT" suggest you have not reach our level of understanding and I suggest this thread is not for you.

[Bex]

ok think it is time to add my two pennith worth:
Re: cj........when i was a member of .com, i never had any personal problems with him, but through admins/mods over there i have heard a lot about him, which would make me think that he is a less that favourable character (although i will not go into the topics of these conversations because they were personal)

RE: trust.....i think that trust is paramount to this forum...i think that in order for it to run effeciently, and to keep the sense of community, which we do have here. but that is not to say that i think the admin team should all come out of the closest...this is a personal decision for them, if they feel it will benefit us.....it maybe they can not announce themselves because of contractual reasons with ntl or whatever

thirdly: IF neil has been posting as andre (and that is a big if) then it leaves, not only neil but also all those who knew, in a sticky moral situation, re andre's recent death......if neil were to come out now and confess it was him, then i think there would be the possibility of a mass exodus from this site....who wants to be modded by someone who would use the name of a friend who was so poorly???? maybe it was a lapse of judgement in neil's case, who knows......

however i am not going to be quick to condeem neil, frank..and anyone else, i think they are great guys and they have my trust, i just wish that if it was the case they were under another alias that they would let us know as soon as the were able

[Undisputedtruth]

ok think it is time to add my two pennith worth:
Re: cj........when i was a member of .com, i never had any personal problems with him, but through admins/mods over there i have heard a lot about him, which would make me think that he is a less that favourable character (although i will not go into the topics of these conversations because they were personal)

RE: trust.....i think that trust is paramount to this forum...i think that in order for it to run effeciently, and to keep the sense of community, which we do have here. but that is not to say that i think the admin team should all come out of the closest...this is a personal decision for them, if they feel it will benefit us.....it maybe they can not announce themselves because of contractual reasons with ntl or whatever

thirdly: IF neil has been posting as andre (and that is a big if) then it leaves, not only neil but also all those who knew, in a sticky moral situation, re andre's recent death......if neil were to come out now and confess it was him, then i think there would be the possibility of a mass exodus from this site....who wants to be modded by someone who would use the name of a friend who was so poorly????

On your third point, I just happen to think there is a 'tangled web of deception' which has now been mixed up with moral dilemna.

[Chimaera]

The level response from the Mods / Admins is deafening! ;)

Which makes me think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye - and although I have just read through all the posts on this thread, it seems to be getting way too complicated.

[Nemesis]

I have one question ... IF Neil was Andre, and was posting as Andre .... Why would Russ post that Andre has passed away .... it would be pointless.

Russ posting about Andre's death surely reinforces the point that Andre was a real independent character. Neil could have continued posting as Andre and we would be none the wiser.

I understand that there may be somecrossover from .Com here, and I personally don't really care, it was more than likely done for a reason, if it is the case.

Regarding Andre .... Leave it now, please .... for his and his parents sake if nothing else .... and for those that knew him ... enough.

[Paul K]

On your third point, I just happen to think there is a 'tangled web of deception' which has now been mixed up with moral dilemna.
Damn, now I'm agreeing with you, unfortunately for what ever misguided reasons Andre's name was used it seems the situation has now snowballed and is coming close to being out of control.
I think it would be in the best interests of everyone if some sort of announcement was made today. Until then people will continue creating their own reasons and theories.

[dieselking]

ok think it is time to add my two pennith worth:
Re: cj........when i was a member of .com, i never had any personal problems with him, but through admins/mods over there i have heard a lot about him, which would make me think that he is a less that favourable character (although i will not go into the topics of these conversations because they were personal)

RE: trust.....i think that trust is paramount to this forum...i think that in order for it to run effeciently, and to keep the sense of community, which we do have here. but that is not to say that i think the admin team should all come out of the closest...this is a personal decision for them, if they feel it will benefit us.....it maybe they can not announce themselves because of contractual reasons with ntl or whatever

thirdly: IF neil has been posting as andre (and that is a big if) then it leaves, not only neil but also all those who knew, in a sticky moral situation, re andre's recent death......if neil were to come out now and confess it was him, then i think there would be the possibility of a mass exodus from this site....who wants to be modded by someone who would use the name of a friend who was so poorly???? maybe it was a lapse of judgement in neil's case, who knows......

however i am not going to be quick to condeem neil, frank..and anyone else, i think they are great guys and they have my trust, i just wish that if it was the case they were under another alias that they would let us know as soon as the were able


We aren't "condeeming" anyone, we are just asking for the truth

[Bex]

[QUOTE=Drudge]So do we read into this post that the admins and mods discuss other people's affair with any Tom, Dick and Bexy? This can only add to the distrust already building up here.[QUOTE]

yes u see they discussed everything with me about every person who posts there!!!!!! SARCASM!!!!! have u never discussed a mutual aquantience with a friend....

for example, (sorry to use you as an example mark) i discussed handyman with nemesis once (dont panic mark nothing bad) ok it was just in this realm....it wasnt personal info etc

and another point, i do have eyes you know, i have categorically seen craig stab people in the back and lord himself up

nemmy good post huni

[Sociable]

We aren't "condeeming" anyone, we are just asking for the truth

To bexy's credit so is she.

Please keep the debate reasonable and fully read what people say, my take on bexy's post was that it supports a call for honesty just as much as your's mine or anyone elses for that matter.

[Frank]

Hello mods!!! Are u there mods!! SPEAK TO US THE MAIN MODS

All we want is to be told the truthYou will be. Unfortunately not everyone lives on the Internet 24/7, nor is everyone is contactable to your timescales.

Some of the admins are not even aware of these threads yet, but the rest of us have started discussing a response to all the points put forward. Constantly inciting the situation goes will not help it, and that goes for everyone who is constantly clammering for admin responses.

We'll be with you shortly. Thank you.

Besides, this is better than Eastenders. :DSo you are trying to stir it up for your own entertainment. Nothing new there then.

[Russ]

Possibly Bexy, you should declare a "conflict of interest". It is well known that you have had a personal involvement with at least one of the Admins and are a declared personal friend. So those on here can only take anything you post on the subject as biased. Perhaps you should state this in a future posts on this thread.

Who people are friendly with on this site is none of your business. I have about 65 people from this site on msn, are they to declare a 'conflict of interest' too?

I've never heard such rubbish in all my life.

[Frank]

If my post can bring such an immediate response why none for the real matter under discussion her?Try reading my post above.

ps. who mentioned you????This is a public forum, you post in public, anyone can reply :rolleyes:

[etccarmageddon]

well, I've tried to extract some answers from Craig on .co.uk and to be honest not much response - it could be that he's not willing to answer my questions of he's out for the day! he claims Russ can back his story up and also claims that Neil has something on Russ.

my take on all this (so far) is that if Craig is indeed right and the mods on .com are the same people on here... then isnt all this situation of Craig's own making? ie. didnt he betray their trust by 'outing' them on .com (when he got suspended)? if he hadnt 'outed' them, then they could have kept this site going as a backup if .com closed down.

is the reason why he's tryng to get the cat out of the bag so that he can get them all sacked from .com? is Craig trying to get back on .com - is that the objective of all this?

or has Craig genuinely been shafted by the .com mods and that's why he wants the truth out?

[Russ]

Amazing, out of the woodwork etc.

If my post can bring such an immediate response why none for the real matter under discussion her?


Erm...because I don't spend all my spare time on this site? Some of us have lives you know.

Plus the fact I don't have to respond to every request from people.

Now - on to the issue at hand.

As Keyser says, we will tell you the facts. It's then up to you lot to decide if you believe them. There are some who are trying to bring us down and will NEVER believe anything we say, that's their right. But I assure you. we will just do as you all ask, and tell you the score. There is no way we could allow this subject to just run and run, and personally this has been bothering me for a long time now so the sooner we make an official announcement, perhaps this site can go back to the way it was.

When the truth comes out, some may like it, some may not, I have no idea but I can assure you that we are taking this VERY seriously. As soon as the whole team gets together to discuss it in the admin's forum, we will post it straight away.

This is a public forum, you post in public, anyone can reply

AMEN BRUVVA!

[Bex]

Possibly Bexy, you should declare a "conflict of interest". It is well known that you have had a personal involvement with at least one of the Admins and are a declared personal friend. So those on here can only take anything you post on the subject as biased. Perhaps you should state this in a future posts on this thread.

state what?

yes i am friends with some of the admins, but so are a lot of people here...that is no crime, i am also friends with many of the members....there is no conflict of interests as far as i see it...

and my personal life really is none of ur buisness drudge

[Stuart]

As Craig was employed by NTL, perhaps he was a liar and a troublemaker, but revealing my PM discussions with Escapee and myself, has certainly given Craig credibility in this matter.Who revealed your PM discussions? Craig? If he did, I certainly wouldn't give him credibility (apart from that which comes from proving it is possible for mods to access PMs).

I personally would want to know why he released my PMs. If it wasn't him, I would go after who did.


Personally, there is nothing in my PMs that will identify me, but the main issue is the trust and respect of the moderators on these sites. If they can stoop this low to read PMs, it just makes you think to what depths they will go.I suppose there are issues of trust, and with one notable ex-mod (not craig, but I won't say who it is), I did have a problem with them being a mod. In the case of all the other Mods (on this site anyway, haven't looked at .com much recently), I feel they have been fair. I even have had no problem with Craig (apart from him telling me off for being Off topic when I was off topic, so that was fair).

[Sociable]

I have one question ... IF Neil was Andre, and was posting as Andre .... Why would Russ post that Andre has passed away .... it would be pointless.



For the simple reason he is an honest and honurable man and did so out of respect for the "real" Andre.

If the sad news was later abused by people who allowed myself and others to call for and end to speculation taking on Trust Andre was not Neil (or anyone else for that matter) that was a cynical betrayal of Russ just as much as anyone else.

If nothing else for now a simple confirmation by those that know the truth clearly confirming that the Andre that died is not the person that posted as Andre here would at least show some respect for him.

To leave things as they are and by that imply the earlier and current alegations are disproved by that death is a cruel deception on people like myself that had initially at least assumed this to be the case.

[Russ]

That is all we have been asking for. All this agravation on the site could have been avoided long ago by a simple statement.

In that case I apologise for not being online at your convenience, something I shall obviously try to rectify in the future.

[etccarmageddon]

Craig is now online at the other 'hell'

http://www.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=3320&st=130

and I have offered him the chance to respond to my questions.

[Maggy]

Oh dear, the other site has only been down a day and already all the infighting and slanging matches that were a feature over there now seem to have transferred to this site :(

I hope this isn't a sign of the future for this site as well now :( :(

me too!

Incog.

[Sociable]

In that case I apologise for not being online at your convenience, something I shall obviously try to rectify in the future.

No need for any apology at all Russ.

I for one would rather wait for a considered reply rather than any knee jerk reaction.

Take your time and we will be patient I for one guarantee to take your considered statement as and when as "gospel". (no pun intended)

I know you hold your beliefs strongly this is why what little remaining faith I have I entrust to you.

[etccarmageddon]

I cant see any fighting or slanging matches - looks pretty civil to me. if anyone is being rude/out of order - use the 'report post' feature.

[Maelstrom]

Perhaps it's time to close this thread temporarily until a statement is made - very little new is emerging, and people are simply getting more annoyed.

On a side issue, I'm hoping - probably in vain - that your latest blog entry Russ isn't about this situation. If it is, then I hope you can weather the storm, for all our sakes. Best wishes in this difficult time.

[Tricky]

Perhaps it's time to close this thread temporarily until a statement is made - very little new is emerging, and people are simply getting more annoyed.

On a side issue, I'm hoping - probably in vain - that your latest blog entry Russ isn't about this situation. If it is, then I hope you can weather the storm, for all our sakes. Best wishes in this difficult time.

Rather than a closure - let's just refrain from posting until the statement is made. We all await...

[Maggy]

But would explain the suspension of the forum if the current alegation is proved correct. Dont forget it wasn't Neil & Co that suspended the forum but NTL.

Thus far they have not confirmed why they did it but I seriously doubt it was over erol as he was already suspened as was Craig.

I also note with interest you didn't care to respond to my posts Incog care to do so now?

sorry!I thought I had.
Is this an AGM and I'm the chairman having to respond to every point of order? :D

anyway I had to go and feed the family and give my tennis elbow some rest.I do have a life elswhere you know.So do the mods.

Anyway what proof would you accept that they are telling the truth?These allegations are very hard to prove or disprove.

Incog.

[etccarmageddon]

Anyway what proof would you accept that they are telling the truth?These allegations are very hard to prove or disprove.

Incog.


I think the majority of us have faith in Russ's integrity - so we will look to Russ's answers/responses.

[Bifta]

I don't know about anyone else, but I have no idea who to believe, whatever judgement's anyone makes after they disclose the real course of event's is still going to be based on someone elses word. On one hand I really don't want to believe Craig J (as I'd rather die in a horrific chemical fire that have him around as a regular visitor on any site I participate on) but on the other hand Russ would appear to be slight put upon so I'm almost convinced that there is/has been something slightly underhand going on. If Neil has been posting as someone called Andre, for one reason or another, and there really was a feller called Andre, who has died of cancer then I can't really see too much harm done to be honest, if Craig J is lying, well ... I'm sure legally speaking he's going to get what's coming to him offline soon enough anyway and if there was nobody called Andre in the first place then you'll all be pleased to hear that I'll be leaving once the announcement has been made.

[Russ]

I think closing this thread will just put the conspiracy theorists in to overdrive...I think maybe a better idea would be to ask people to post responsibly from here on. You've had a response from more than one member of the team, so let's just be patient. I imagine (and this is just my opinion, please do not take this as a promise) there should be an announcement within 24 hours or so.

[Undisputedtruth]

I have one question ... IF Neil was Andre, and was posting as Andre .... Why would Russ post that Andre has passed away .... it would be pointless.

Not sure of what you are saying, indeed pointless is what I think of it.

Russ posting about Andre's death surely reinforces the point that Andre was a real independent character. Neil could have continued posting as Andre and we would be none the wiser.

We can't be sure if Andre was not a real person. We are seeking clarification from the mods if Neil was actually using the identity of Andre.

I understand that there may be somecrossover from .Com here, and I personally don't really care, it was more than likely done for a reason, if it is the case.

Do you also understand that people here do care?

Regarding Andre .... Leave it now, please .... for his and his parents sake if nothing else .... and for those that knew him ... enough.

It is not wise to tell us what to do and certainly I could never conform to your way of thinking (I could give reasons but you might find it a touch insulting). There is a nasty air to this saga and a lot of us want answers.

[Sociable]

sorry!I thought I had.
Is this an AGM and I'm the chairman having to respond to every point of order? :D

anyway I had to go and feed the family and give my tennis elbow some rest.I do have a life elswhere you know.So do the mods.

Anyway what proof would you accept that they are telling the truth?These allegations are very hard to prove or disprove.

Incog.

As you chose to issue demerits to me accusing me of starting this I simply wanted your response to what my initial posts on rejoining active posting here had been as they both were attempts to calm things down not just generally but specifically on this issue.

If you could please just simply respond to my post 31 (at the top of page three) and apologise should you feel an apology is waranted as and when you have the time. (others may want to do so also if they have not already read that post)

EDIT: As I and others have already posted the simple word of honour from Russ in a considered statement from him would be enough for me as I understand that he may be in a position to confirm or deny the key alegations if not specific details.

As has already been suggested we now need to leave Russ and the others some breathing room to consider that statement before making it.

[number34]

The fact you said "for once find myself agreeing with UDT" suggest you have not reach our level of understanding and I suggest this thread is not for you.
Too suggestive! Meant that I hardly ever agreed with your extreme negative position with regards to NTL as evidenced by your numerous postings on .com

It is also obvious that I had nor reached your level of understanding as I asked for advice on which threads to read first! Thanks for the help :rolleyes:

[etccarmageddon]

Craig has responded to my questions on the other 'hell' site.

I suggest no-one is dammed when there is an official announcement confirming whatever the real truth is.

[paulyoung666]

i really hope it happens sooner rather than later as i feel this is putting a great big nasty cloud over this place , doesnt this sort of thing happen over the road at the other hell site ????????????? , wasnt this the reason for not wanting anything to do with that site , whatever the outcome please make it quick so we can get back to some sort of normality ;)

[Bex]

i really hope it happens sooner rather than later as i feel this is putting a great big nasty cloud over this place , doesnt this sort of thing happen over the road at the other hell site ????????????? , wasnt this the reason for not wanting anything to do with that site , whatever the outcome please make it quick so we can get back to some sort of normality ;)

i, unfortunately, agree with you...i think it is pivitol for some people to know who runs the site, im curious but i dont really care tbh

[paulyoung666]

i, unfortunately, agree with you...i think it is pivitol for some people to know who runs the site, im curious but i dont really care tbh



what really has annoyed me is that this had spilled over into the other thread about .com closing down which in turn caused that thread to be closed , i really hope this response is quick so we can get back to normal

[Bex]

what really has annoyed me is that this had spilled over into the other thread about .com closing down which in turn caused that thread to be closed , i really hope this response is quick so we can get back to normal

i was disappointed to see keyser close that thread...i think originally we were doing well in discussing .com closing and also suggesting that they do not bring their problems over here...everything has come to a head and things will get worse until people get their answers imo

[Seb]

what really has annoyed me is that this had spilled over into the other thread about .com closing down which in turn caused that thread to be closed , i really hope this response is quick so we can get back to normal

Yer what has happened there... i last read this thread about 9.30 this morning, and at that point it had 3/4 posts. So to my amazement there were 80 odd when i returned, however i read throughj the entire thread, and has to check i had opened the right one?!

I think this thread needs to be branded with a slightly large :notopic:

Seb

[Escapee]

As Craig was employed by NTL, perhaps he was a liar and a troublemaker, but revealing my PM discussions with Escapee and myself, has certainly given Craig credibility in this matter.

Personally, there is nothing in my PMs that will identify me, but the main issue is the trust and respect of the moderators on these sites. If they can stoop this low to read PMs, it just makes you think to what depths they will go.

I was personally not too bothered about having my mails read, I was more worried about ntl employees sending me PM's and getting into trouble over it.
I did upset ntl managers and they were going around Dunleavy in Cardiff asking who I was, they apparently approached my old boss and others who knew me to try and find out who was posting embarrassing info that would probably get their backsides kicked if their bosses found out.

I do know of one employee who was spoken to about supplying me with information via the .com site, and the info was supplied via PM. I am very carefull not to post info that I get from my ntl mates down the pub because I dont want to get them into hassle over it, I have one very good friend who I drink with regulary and he has allready upset the managers because I helped him with a problem where ntl were basically shafting him and making threats to sign a new contract that would cost him.

I made it clear via a certain route that made it back to HR and the managers in question that I was responsible for writing the letter and advising the employee to take legal action against the company, the company quickly dropped the threat of sacking the person in question and gave him the reward that he had been overdue for a long time. This is one of the reasons certain people in ntl like to discredit me. :rolleyes:

[Sociable]

i was disappointed to see keyser close that thread...i think originally we were doing well in discussing .com closing and also suggesting that they do not bring their problems over here...everything has come to a head and things will get worse until people get their answers imo

In fairness I think for sheer size alone it made sense to close that and move to this, as this was about the only key issue being discussed by that stage.

[paulyoung666]

In fairness I think for sheer size alone if made sense to close that and move to this as this was about the only key issue being discussed by that stage.



but if it had not been allowed to go that way then it would not have been closed would it

[Sociable]

but if it had not been allowed to go that way then it would not have been closed would it

As they say "Hindsight is 20:20 vision"

I just think any thread contentious or otherwise benefits from closing with a link to a new thread about every 250-300 posts for sheer readability.

The original sections are always available for reference it just makes life a little easier for new readers I think, and also keeps a single topic down to just one "Live" main thread as well so avoiding swamping the board.

[paulyoung666]

As they say "Hindsight is 20:20 vision"

I just think any thread contentious or otherwise benefits from closing with a link to a new thread about every 250-300 posts for sheer readability.

The original sections are always available for reference it just makes life a little easier for new readers I think, and also keeps a single topic down to just one "Live" main thread as well so avoiding swamping the board.


fair comment i suppose

[snuffs99]

I to am still confused. I wasn't a long time member of .com and i have only just joined this site which is pretty much identical to .coms .

I suppose what i am confused about is why it is so important to people as to who runs this site and who is to blame for the closure of .com

Why should the Admin/Mods explain themselves?

At the end of the day i can't see what difference knowing those things is going to make, apart from the odd few who can say i told you so nothing is going to change, the .com site is still going to be closed and this site is still going to have the same admins and mods and for those who don't like those FACTS then **** off and find another site, you are not forced to stay here.

I find it amazing that people who DON'T know each other in person can make a big deal of something so petty and trivial, and if you do know each other in person why post your problems on a forum, thats just cowardly, do it face to face and get over whatever your problem is.

Now i have read ALL relivant threads on this site and ntlhell and as i said i still can't see the problems raised by only a few who seem to be taking things way to personal. Get a life, Stop being so sad and Bitchy and get on with what ever else you can do besides bitch.

You say you want the truth yet you never will know it because in your minds you think you already do.

And before people start telling me that i havn't been a member long enough to start commenting on this subject. I am sorry but as soon as my account was activated by the site mods i became just as much of a member as anyone.

.com is closed .co.uk is still here what is the problem with that?

Any question in this post is a retorical one.

[Bex]

I to am still confused. I wasn't a long time member of .com and i have only just joined this site which is pretty much identical to .coms .

I suppose what i am confused about is why it is so important to people as to who runs this site and who is to blame for the closure of .com

Why should the Admin/Mods explain themselves?

At the end of the day i can't see what difference knowing those things is going to make, apart from the odd few who can say i told you so nothing is going to change, the .com site is still going to be closed and this site is still going to have the same admins and mods and for those who don't like those FACTS then **** off and find another site, you are not forced to stay here.

I find it amazing that people who DON'T know each other in person can make a big deal of something so petty and trivial, and if you do know each other in person why post your problems on a forum, thats just cowardly, do it face to face and get over whatever your problem is.

Now i have read ALL relivant threads on this site and ntlhell and as i said i still can't see the problems raised by only a few who seem to be taking things way to personal. Get a life, Stop being so sad and Bitchy and get on with what ever else you can do besides bitch.

You say you want the truth yet you never will know it because in your minds you think you already do.

And before people start telling me that i havn't been a member long enough to start commenting on this subject. I am sorry but as soon as my account was activated by the site mods i became just as much of a member as anyone.

.com is closed .co.uk is still here what is the problem with that?

Any question in this post is a retorical one.

well said....and :welcome:

[Russ]

Please report back to the site homepage for an official announcement on the stories and rumours which have been circulating recently regarding this site.

[Sociable]

well said....and :welcome:

DITTO :)

Sadly there is no way of identifying (other than by the content in a thread) that the topic may only be of direct interest to a partictular group, in this case mostly the "Oldies" at least in terms of involvement with both forums, as it is our "investment" in time energy and trust over an extended period of time that is an issue.

So apologies to all those new to either forum who have no interest and please feel free to ignore the thread or join in at your discretion.

[Frank]

http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4437