View Full Version : Type of cable (actual cable)
Hi,
Hoping for some help.
I've had ntl cable broadband for a couple of years, no real problems so far. I'm looking to move my cable modem to a different part of the house and have a problem. When the installer originally came, it looks like he has drilled through a dwark wall under my house, came back up, put the cable end on, then went back down and sealed the hole in the wall. I could say he was being very thorough, but it's given me a problem in that I can't pull the cable back through the wall and into where I now wish it to be.
So my question is....if I remove the end off the cable (chop it off), where can I buy the fittings to re-do it? I presume maplins carries them, but I've no idea of the actual cable type, or end-fitting is called. It's a screw-in fitting to my cable modem.
Any and all help appreicated.
Thanks,
youngqb
officaly your not supposed to even touch the ntl cable, i believe they will relocate it for "fee"
unoffically yes i believe you can order the cable from maplins and the likes of and someone here will probably give you the part numbers you need...
really depends on how much the materials cost and what it would cost to have NTL relocate the connection point.
becuase if its not much more to have NTL do it then you might as well take that route becuase at least if they Screw something up its their problem.
However if you screw something up they may well wish to know what you were doing screwing about with their termination point/cabling in the first place!
there is also the factor of increasing the cable lengh may have an effect on power levels to your modem and if its marginal at the moment the difference may be enough to knock it offline or something.
may i suggest you wait for someone who knows what they are talking about to post before you continue (becuase im only repeating what ive picked up on from previous posts so it may not be 100% accurate)
bmxbandit
05-02-2006, 00:14
as dragon says, you shouldn't really be touching the cable. i think the charge for relocating is £25 (i think there was a thread about new charges posted recently).
having said that, any decent electrical store will sell you some coax and an F type connector for a few pounds...but remember, modifying any of ntl's equipment is against the terms and conditions of service, so strictly at your own risk!
jrhnewark
05-02-2006, 01:18
I believe it is £25 - if nowhere locally can sell you some decent coax (you need CT100 or FT100 (or 125), not dodgy 'normal' coax), Maplin sell a wide range of everything you need online.
Anyway, it is an "f-type" fitting. Just be careful when you strip the end of the cable to re-fit a connector - make sure none of the outer braiding is touching the inner core, etc.
Once you've done it once, you can do it a thousand times.
I don't think this is a good idea as what NTL installed cable ect is their property and should you have to call them out, they would have a record of their installation and might get the sad on!!!
jrhnewark
05-02-2006, 02:11
I don't think this is a good idea as what NTL installed cable ect is their property and should you have to call them out, they would have a record of their installation and might get the sad on!!!Doubt it. Would they also have recorded that they couldn't be bothered to cut some cable down to size so left an extra 15ft in the corner of my sitting room?! ;)
hairy_mick
05-02-2006, 12:00
you need a tool that strips the cable back to the correct size also the ppc tool is used to compress the connector on to the cable if you atempt to do it your self then how are you going to check the levels do you have a te 1250 meter if not then get ntl to do it 25 quid and any problems its down to them. also if they do noise busting they can trace it back to the house then your in for it.
Can I ask why you want to move the modem, apart from it being in the way( could you not fix it to the wall.
Why not just get a cat5/long usb(not good) cable and run that into the room you want or am i missing someting!
zing_deleted
05-02-2006, 12:21
Or you could buy a wireless router and go wireless.Or you could try homeplug and network your whole house over the mains ;) http://www.homeplugs.co.uk/acatalog/?gclid=CISt96eygYMCFTdBEgodaGgUvQ
and may I add cuz no one else has:welcome: to the forum enjoy your stay :)
UncleBooBoo
05-02-2006, 12:53
I agree with some of the above posts, £25 is not much if you think about it!
By the time you go get the cable, connectors, clips etc return home spend the time doing the work.....
Isn't it easier to call a free phone number and have them do it?
At least when the engineer goes you know your signal levels etc are all ok and you got the proper kit installed which will help reduce any poss faults in the future! ;)
Thanks very much for the various replies.
I'm not sure if I've articulated my problem right. All I'm looking to do is take the connector off (f-type, thank you very much for letting me know what it's called), re-routing the cable then reapplying the connector. I would only do it if I thought I could do it prooperly, and without loss of signal. Your right in saying that £25 is not much, but I imagine the crimper and connector will cost less than £5 in maplins, and I think I've got a multimeter around somewhere. I'll have a look and see what I can pick up, and make a decision later, but in the mean time I'm very greatful for the speedy responses. Now that I've found you all I imagine I'll be lurking around for quite some time.
Thanks again.
zing_deleted
05-02-2006, 16:49
why do they need crimping? Ive used threaded ones that just thread down on the cable
I was assuming it was crimped down, looks like a fairly robust connection.
---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------
Found this link.
http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/fconn.htm
Might be useful if I decide to do the job myself. Any comments appreciated.
---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------
and another
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=10447&criteria=f%20connector&doy=5m2
Thanks very much for the various replies.
I'm not sure if I've articulated my problem right. All I'm looking to do is take the connector off (f-type, thank you very much for letting me know what it's called), re-routing the cable then reapplying the connector. I would only do it if I thought I could do it prooperly, and without loss of signal. Your right in saying that £25 is not much, but I imagine the crimper and connector will cost less than £5 in maplins, and I think I've got a multimeter around somewhere. I'll have a look and see what I can pick up, and make a decision later, but in the mean time I'm very greatful for the speedy responses. Now that I've found you all I imagine I'll be lurking around for quite some time.
Thanks again.
First it is against T&C's for you to mess around moving your equipment, ntl do log where the modem is in your house so they would be able to tell if you have moved it.
Second a multi meter will not do you need to measure the db's not volts etc.
Third the F is a mechanical joint not a threaded one, these are not up to the spec for what is required.
To sort your dilemma out the easiest way is run a cat5 cable from the modem where it is now to the new location, you can run up to 100 meter's and you are not breaking T&Cs, easy.
To buy your own tooling it would cost
£12 for the cable strippers
£48 for the compression tool
Ignition
05-02-2006, 18:43
Good coax, joining new and old cable with 75ohm impedance connector.
Still will cause micro-reflections on the cable but so long as the connector and cable you use is good quality and 75ohm impedance shouldn't be a major issue.
Use anything that isn't 75ohm and you may see .... issues.
The modem staying where it currently is is not an option, I'm redocoratng and the room is becoming a childs bedroom. I want it out, discretely on the wall in the hall, along side the router. I can then run ethernet cable to all the points that require them.
jrhnewark
05-02-2006, 21:25
To buy your own tooling it would cost
£12 for the cable strippers
£48 for the compression toolGimme a Stanley Knife and I'll strip it for you - for free. I've not come across any need for cable strippers yet, and I do a job that would need them if they were to be necessary!
I think you're taking the mick - sorry.
I tend to agree. I'm not into tackling jobs that I know might go pear shaped, but the worst I can do is make a crap connection, in which case I can strip it back again a couple of inches and start again.
Ignition
05-02-2006, 22:51
.... issues.
There's a post count bumper :p
Issues, generating an impedance mismatch by putting the wrong kit in will cause signal reflections. Just think about what happens when light hits a window and bounces back.
Sorry, it was meant to be a reflection not a question.
;)
Gimme a Stanley Knife and I'll strip it for you - for free. I've not come across any need for cable strippers yet, and I do a job that would need them if they were to be necessary!
I think you're taking the mick - sorry.
Where do you leave your horse then mate;) This method may be ok for putting on a aerial connector form a roof but not for a modem/DTV.
Where do you leave your horse then mate;) This method may be ok for putting on a aerial connector form a roof but not for a modem/DTV.
Eventually got round to doing the job I mentioned some months ago.....chopped the crimped f connector off the cable, re-routed it under the floor to where I now want the modem to reside, stanley knife to the cable, stripped it back carefully and simply put a 49p f connector back on. Not crimped, just screwed on. Was going to apply a bit of solder but didn't bother as it looks like a snug fit. The fact that I'm posting this suggests no problems whatsoever.
AbyssUnderground
11-04-2006, 17:30
Eventually got round to doing the job I mentioned some months ago.....chopped the crimped f connector off the cable, re-routed it under the floor to where I now want the modem to reside, stanley knife to the cable, stripped it back carefully and simply put a 49p f connector back on. Not crimped, just screwed on. Was going to apply a bit of solder but didn't bother as it looks like a snug fit. The fact that I'm posting this suggests no problems whatsoever.
Check your signal levels and make sure they are all OK.
The fact that I'm posting this suggests no problems whatsoever.
Hopefully there are no problems, you may not see any but it may "back feed" onto the network and give all your neighbours trouble.
Stanley knife to the cable, stripped it back carefully
Good luck in the future with that one if the frequencies go higher, the reason for not using a Stanley knife is to avoid scoring the extremely thin copper jacket on the outer edge of the centre conductor that the signals travel down.
Not crimped, just screwed on. Was going to apply a bit of solder but didn't bother as it looks like a snug fit.
The point of having them crimped on is to make an electronically sound connection that continues the electrical seal around the centre conductor to stop signals getting in and out, not so that it looks like it fits. As you were told earlier, the screw on connectors are completely the wrong specifications for cable signals.
The fact that I'm posting this suggests no problems whatsoever.
Perhaps not for you today, in fact you may be lucky and it may never cause you a problem, but you can guarantee that it will cause some poor sod somewhere a problem sooner or later.
You'd be surprised how many poor speed/connection problems are tracked down to dodgy connectors that ntl install let alone a Maplins satellite coax special
Still as long as you've saved yourself a few quid eh? :td:
a good help
11-04-2006, 20:57
if you were to move the cable yourself, then ntl wouldnt know, but if you had a fault and the engineer found that your new extension was the fault then you will be liable for a £25.00 service visit as its your equiptment that caused the fault, spend the £25 and call NTL and ask for them to come and rellocate the catv for you, then any issues from then on would be down to NTL to correct if the need came..
costs:
£2.00 for connectors from maplis..ect
£5-10 for cable ( and it'll be either sat cable or normal coax )
you have a fault
£25.00 charge applied-cos of your new extension wire
then ur adv to get NTL to relocate by fault tech
another £25. for the cable to be moved.
so just call cust service and ask for them to arrange the cable to be moved and save on any further costs..
You'd be surprised how many poor speed/connection problems are tracked down to dodgy connectors that ntl install
I really must take a few photos of some of the installs around here, cables chopped off here, hanging out there. :erm:
You'd be surprised how many poor speed/connection problems are tracked down to dodgy connectors that ntl install let alone a Maplins satellite coax special
Still as long as you've saved yourself a few quid eh? :td:
If you read my earlier posts I think you'll see it had nothing to do with saving a few quid. I like the thought of doing these things myself, but in fact I'm happy to acccept that my ignorance of 'back feed' etc could perhaps cause problems.......link me to something I can swat up on so that I'm more informed....... I might even phone ntl and ask them to come out and remake the connection, just for your piece of mind.....you never know. ;)
Having only just read this thread, I wondered why the OP didn't carefully chisel around the cable in the dwarf wall to open up the original hole until he could draw the cable back through complete ? :erm:
The plug is only a few mm larger than the cable.
Nedkelly
05-05-2006, 18:03
At the end of the day if you move the cable and it works fine .If it does not work and you ring NTL we will charge you .I see this all the time :rolleyes:
Having only just read this thread, I wondered why the OP didn't carefully chisel around the cable in the dwarf wall to open up the original hole until he could draw the cable back through complete ? :erm:
The plug is only a few mm larger than the cable.
tried that. chiselled away some 3 inches into his sealer.....no idea how much he put in.......plus he went up and diagonally through the wall.....when if he had looked more carefully he'd have found a route that wouldn't have neccessitated drilling in the first place :rolleyes:
link me to something I can swat up on so that I'm more informed
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_mismatch) would be a good place to start mate or here (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/impedance.htm). These will give you enough info for you to be able to use google to get a better overall view.
have fun
Get them to come and do it then lock the guy in the cupboard for when it all goes wrong, save yourself the bother of chasing engineers everytime you see a van :)
jrhnewark
10-05-2006, 23:52
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_mismatch) would be a good place to start mate or here (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/impedance.htm). These will give you enough info for you to be able to use google to get a better overall view.
have funOkay smarty boy, you have a point. Good on ya. Now, tell me, if something works, would you go out of your way to make it work "better"? No. You wouldn't.
We're all familiar with electrons flying around all over the place and the need, often, for perfection. But these are dodgy STBs, not high quality broadcast apparatus.
Okay smarty boy, you have a point. Good on ya. Now, tell me, if something works, would you go out of your way to make it work "better"? No. You wouldn't.
Actually yes I would, I pride myself on the fact that every bit of work I do is completed to the best of my abilities and that the end result dosn't just work but that it works as well as I can make it. Perhaps these days having pride in the work you do and striving to excel are out dated concepts but not for this engineer.
We're all familiar with electrons flying around all over the place and the need, often, for perfection. But these are dodgy STBs, not high quality broadcast apparatus.
Yes perhaps the the STB's and SACMs that ntl deploy arn't the best that money but would you be willing to pay more for a STB that costs £500 instead of £300 I think youd probably be in a minority. This thread isn't about the customer equipment though its about trying to maintain the integrity of the network that is used to deliver the data to those devices.
What many forget is that a cable network is a two way system, signals go down to the customer but also come back all through the same bit of cable. The way a system is designed is roughly funnel shaped every thing going out to the customer starts at a single point and spreads out, but everything includeing the interference has got to come back to that single point.
Admitedly if one person does somthing like this it possibly wouldnt impact either themselves or anyone else. But where does it end? if 4 or 5 connected to each street cabinet do it you end up with 40 or 50 at each fibre node multiply that again by the 700-800 plus fibre nodes feeding back in to the Headend and the result is a network that firstly breaches the DTI regulations for egress and secondly that won't be able to carry any decent traffic because of ingress. The network around London used to be the best example of it. Theres still to this day areas of that city that don't have DTV or broadband becuase it takes years to repair that sort of problems.
Anyone wanting anymore info on this sort of thing is invited to use this new fangled internet thingy which I believe has somthing called search engines to search for return path ingress problems, funneling effects within CATV systems etc.
Also worth a guick google is common path distortion just highlight the fact that theres enough problems inherent within a CATV system without adding to them.
James Henry
12-05-2006, 14:39
Ah this will be good, an assistant engineer for a local radio station questioning the CATV knowledge of a guy with a decade and a half's experience in the industry.
Seconds out...
jrhnewark
12-05-2006, 15:01
Actually yes I would, I pride myself on the fact that every bit of work I do is completed to the best of my abilities and that the end result dosn't just work but that it works as well as I can make it. Perhaps these days having pride in the work you do and striving to excel are out dated concepts but not for this engineer.They're not outdated concepts, but I'm sure you'll know that when you're working in a commercial environment with time constraints and the need to do things with as little cash as possible, it's not always possible to use the best for everything. It's about making every piece of equipment and every piece of cabling do the best it can do.
It's quite obviously highlighted with small things at the consumer end this this is going on within the CATV industry - especially after companies getting as close to folding as they dare - RF passthroughs, etc. Fair play, I now have an external one supplied, but Samsung obviously don't fit them as standard to nudge those costs just a little lower.
I'm not saying anyone should start truly fudging everything for all it's worth, but there has to be a degree of focus on the financial side of things. We'd all love a Orban Optimod, for example, to process all our audio, but it'd cost many times more than we have to spent. Gotta make the best out of what you've got.
(And there was no way I'm going to joke around and claim I know everything about NTL, or anyone else's, CATV system. I'd love to, but I don't. :))
Ah this will be good, an assistant engineer for a local radio station questioning the CATV knowledge of a guy with a decade and a half's experience in the industry.
Seconds out...I don't know who some guy called Stu is. He doesn't really know who I am. After all, we're dealing in facts not years in whatever industry, aren't we? It doesn't matter.
I have to say that your post wasn't the most valuable input I've ever seen into this forum. What do you do, anyway?
James Henry
12-05-2006, 15:37
I don't know who some guy called Stu is. He doesn't really know who I am. After all, we're dealing in facts not years in whatever industry, aren't we? It doesn't matter.
I have to say that your post wasn't the most valuable input I've ever seen into this forum. What do you do, anyway?
Doesn't matter, we're dealing with facts not years in any industry, aren't we?
EDIT: There was me thinking I was having a bit of a giggle ;)
Can we keep this civil and on-topic please. :)
it's not always possible to use the best for everything. It's about making every piece of equipment and every piece of cabling do the best it can do.
Thats one of the reasons why I qualified my statement with the comment and that the end result dosn't just work but that it works as well as I can make it
It's quite obviously highlighted <snip> costs just a little lower.
As I said before this thread wasnt about the quality of the equipment ntl supply but about what I percieved to be the cavalier attitude and advice of some of the other posters in this thread that lead to the OP breaching his Ts&Cs by modfying the cabling going into his house and the effects that such actions have on the services provided to their fellow subscribers.
I'm not saying anyone should start truly fudging everything for all it's worth
Glad to hear it.
but there has to be a degree of focus on the financial side of things. We'd all love a Orban Optimod, for example, to process all our audio, but it'd cost many times more than we have to spent. Gotta make the best out of what you've got.
Not relevant to the discussion mate, the only focus on finance here is for the OP, by not paying ntl the money to do the job properly he puts not only his own services at risk with the possible additional costs incurred by him if ntl have to come out and sort it out for him, but he also potentially screws up other subscribers. One of the most common crys on this and similar sites is why am I paying for a service I'm not getting? One of those reasons is illegal modifications such as were made here.
(And there was no way I'm going to joke around and claim I know everything about NTL, or anyone else's, CATV system. I'd love to, but I don't. :))
Google is your friend :) Its certainly not some form of black art, all of the general info on CATV systems design, build and maintenance is out there for anyone willing to look and learn, its available in any version you want from the complex maths to the basic block diagrams.
I don't know who some guy called Stu is. He doesn't really know who I am. After all, we're dealing in facts not years in whatever industry, aren't we? It doesn't matter.
I have to say that your post wasn't the most valuable input I've ever seen into this forum. What do you do, anyway?
I'll keep out of this bit ;)
<edited Bit>
good job I put the last paragrph in before I saw Chris's post ;)
Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_mismatch) would be a good place to start mate or here (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/impedance.htm). These will give you enough info for you to be able to use google to get a better overall view.
have fun
I tried, honestly I did, but a couple of pages on impedence mismatch and I was ready to get that stanley knife out again ;)
---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:01 ----------
the only focus on finance here is for the OP, by not paying ntl the money to do the job properly he puts not only his own services at risk with the possible additional costs incurred by him if ntl have to come out and sort it out for him, but he also potentially screws up other subscribers.
Can we clear up (again) why I didn't get them out to do it? I first started this thread asking about the fittings because I fancied doing it myself, and was a little frustrated about the lack of flexibility in the installation. I've made it clear it's not about cost, more about my curiosity. You've all but confirmed in an earlier post that self made connections are unlikely to cause the user, or anyone else for that matter a problem. I'm happy to bow to you on the technicalities of it all, that's why I'm on here asking questions :)
If ntl were more flexible in their approach to siting of the cable I wouldn't have had this problem.
If ntl were more flexible in their approach to siting of the cable I wouldn't have had this problem.
Firstly mate, see your PMs :)
My own personal view is that if the customer wants to move their STB or modem then we should do it foc for them once a year, any more often becomes chargeable, primarily to protect the integrity of the network.
I am though realist enough to know that its not going to happen as its a pretty poor business model. :(
I'm not quite sure though what your asking for here with more flexibility? are you saying that you want the installers to leave longer cables, shorter cables or that ntl should come out and move the cable for you foc every time you want it moving ? Or are you saying that in your case the original installers dictated to you where they were going to put the cabling rather than both parties coming to an agreement?
Or are you saying that in your case the original installers dictated to you where they were going to put the cabling rather than both parties coming to an agreement?
I wasn't actually in whe the guy came to do the install a couple of years back, but it's worth relay-ing (the story).
When I moved in there was a ntl box outside (previous owners had phoneline). I never used it, got BT re-enabled, and sky digi installed for telly. When we needed bb, ntl were competitive, so they got the nod. Like I said I wasn't in, but the guy came in, and my wife informed him where we were looking to have the cable modem sighted. He went under the floor, and apparently couldn't drill upwards at the point he was looking to do so. he then came back up, and blindly drilled from above to below the floor, which ended up in him going at a 45 degree angle through a dwarf wall. He then passed the cable through, and for some reason sealed the hole, so thorougly that I can't open up the hole, thereby giving me my previous problem. He ran about 20 metres of cable from the front of the house to this termination point, and my frustration simply is that I didn't have the flexibility of moving the cable myself to another room, as the hole being sealed prevented this. I can't believe for a minute that ntl care (why would they) about where my modem is, aslong as the equipment isn't tampered with. His actions unfortunately prevented this.
To top it all, my wife (heavily pregnant at the time) was enlisted to hold the drill in position once he had drilled through so he could find it when he went back underneath.
Anyway, Stu038's been rather helpful, and thanks for the rest of the contributions. This cable malarkey eh !
I can't believe for a minute that ntl care (why would they) about where my modem is,
No but some of the lazier installers do mate :(
Not quite sure why he sealed an internal hole so well though. Still, no accounting for folks :shrug:
No but some of the lazier installers do mate :( Not quite sure why he sealed an internal hole so well though. Still, no accounting for folks :shrug: Then again, if it wasn't sealed at all there would be complaints too...
handyman
14-05-2006, 01:29
I don't know who some guy called Stu is. He doesn't really know who I am. After all, we're dealing in facts not years in whatever industry, aren't we? It doesn't matter.
I have to say that your post wasn't the most valuable input I've ever seen into this forum. What do you do, anyway?
I'll think you'll find that Stu is a superb ntl bloke that I had the pleasure of dealing with when I worked there. With out a doubt with over 2 years taking faults calls and the training courses I have attended I would never touch the ntl system with a screw on f connector. Thats for amatuers. Might work in a handfull of situations but will cause grief in the long run.
markosoft
14-05-2006, 04:13
because I fancied doing it myself, and was a little frustrated about the lack of flexibility in the installation. I've made it clear it's not about cost, more about my curiosity.
I've had this all the time during my line of work, where someone has been 'curious' and wanted to 'do it themselves'.
As far as I can see, you were told it was not recommended that you do it, not just because it might not work for you, but more importantly, it might screw things up further up the line for other people.
Yet you did it.
If it wasn't about money, then why not get NTL in so they could have done it properly? I understand you were curious, but then you were told by people who actually knew something about to get NTL to do it. It seems like a selfish act given what could happen, and whilst i admit that it is only a possibility of it happening, how would you feel if you rang NTL to ask why your broad band wasn't working, just ot be told it's because did a bit of DIY on theirs a few houses up?
zing_deleted
14-05-2006, 08:21
would have been a lot easier to buy a router and save all this hassle . Who knows maybe the op will but a laptop or something and wanna go wireless one day anyway lol.Or a cheap wired router and patch cable would have done the job ;)
would have been a lot easier to buy a router and save all this hassle . Who knows maybe the op will but a laptop or something and wanna go wireless one day anyway lol.Or a cheap wired router and patch cable would have done the job ;)
ffs. read my earlier post mate about why I wanted to do this. in addition to the cable modem and pc, I also have a wireless router and laptop, none of which solves the problem of having a cable modem sighted in a room where I want it out of.
---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:19 ----------
you were told it was not recommended that you do it, not just because it might not work for you, but more importantly, it might screw things up further up the line for other people.
Yet you did it.
I see you conveniently forgot to mention that there were posters suggesting that a home made connection would be fine, along with those who suggested that it'd be the end of the world if I did it.
Ok folks, youngqb has admitted that in hindsight it may not have been the best thing he could have done. We've all had the chance to discuss the merits of such work, can we let this one die now please.
I don't suppose there's any chance that a passing mod could close the thread now is there?
Unless of course the OP wants to keep it open.
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.