View Full Version : Check This Out - ntl 100Mbps
US.M@JORHAZZARD
03-02-2006, 17:52
Don't know if anyone else has seen this but i thought i would post
http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/news/2149728/ntl-trials-100mbit-links
Ignition
03-02-2006, 17:57
Hope they haven't just switched Dolphin Square back on ;)
Don't know if anyone else has seen this but i thought i would post
http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/news/2149728/ntl-trials-100mbit-links
A few thing to note.
You would have to pay £50 for new kit.
It would be a upto speed so you would end up with 6Mb
A few thing to note.
You would have to pay £50 for new kit.
It would be a upto speed so you would end up with 6Mb
LOL, optimism in its finest form :)
Hans Gruber
03-02-2006, 18:51
One off £50 for a 100mbit connection? Yeah I could live with that :p
Cerberus
03-02-2006, 18:54
The words p*ss up & brewery spring to mind.
If they can't get the infrastructure organised correctly for 10Mbps, what chance have they got for 100 Mbps? :confused:
Are NTL actually extracting the urine out of people? My opinion is yes!
Bluffdemon
03-02-2006, 19:06
The words p*ss up & brewery spring to mind.
If they can't get the infrastructure organised correctly for 10Mbps, what chance have they got for 100 Mbps? :confused:
Are NTL actually extracting the urine out of people? My opinion is yes!
Hahaha i couldn't have said it better myself :D:D
The words p*ss up & brewery spring to mind.
If they can't get the infrastructure organised correctly for 10Mbps, what chance have they got for 100 Mbps? :confused:
Are NTL actually extracting the urine out of people? My opinion is yes!I think i'll go along with that opinion too... other ISP's will be dishing out that speed way before NTL do. NTL are good at being first to announce things like this, but arn't nesseceraly the first to implement them. Just like with the 10mb, first to announce it but Blueyonder and some ADSL ISP's beat them to it. I do hope NTL will be able to reach these speeds, we are supposed to be seeing 25mb speeds from them half way thru the year, and 50mb by the end of it... but I think they had better get the 10mb sorted out before they even think about mentioning higher speeds.
sicknote
03-02-2006, 21:30
http://www.pcw.co.uk/vnunet/news/2148579/ntl-under-fire-again-poor?vnu_lt=pcw_art_related_articles
thats a way much better link:)
Chrysalis
03-02-2006, 22:44
ignition any idea how they are doing this, have they installed docsis3 in trial areas or something?
Ignition
03-02-2006, 23:11
ignition any idea how they are doing this, have they installed docsis3 in trial areas or something?
I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you :)
I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you :)
I could live with that ;)
Chrysalis
04-02-2006, 03:45
nah just tell them to trial my ubr put that on docsis3 and then 10meg runs as normal while they trial their new stuff :)
Ignition
04-02-2006, 18:39
nah just tell them to trial my ubr put that on docsis3 and then 10meg runs as normal while they trial their new stuff :)
Tis not DOCSIS 3.
we talking fibre to the home ??
I think this is coming down the copper phone line ADSL2+
Chrysalis
04-02-2006, 20:58
adsl2+ cant do 100meg.
If it isnt docsis3 the only way that seems feasible is fibre.
icanadvise
04-02-2006, 21:12
for pitys sake try to keep up people its been on their website at least 3 months http://www.business.ntl.com/ethernet/metro.php
Because our Metro Ethernet service runs exclusively on our own privately owned fibre network - ntl becomes fully accountable for the security of your traffic and the reliability of your connections. We can and do provide levels of service that few can match.
What's more, our Metro Ethernet service also offers considerably higher bandwidth than many alternative Wide Area Network solutions, at a highly competitive and affordable price. Regardless of the size of your business, we have a Metro Ethernet package to suit your needs, with options ranging from 10Mbps to 100Mbps and even 1,000Mbps.
no secret no one has to kill anyone :dozey:
Erm, because NTL businees uses a method to deliver 100 Meg + broadband, it does not follow it would be feasible (or even practical) for NTL home to offer it. Remember, businesses can (and do) pay £1,000 + a month for connections. I cannot imagine the average home consumer wanting to pay even £100.
Clearly no one followed that link to the ntl business site... That service is for connecting two diffrent sites within a business together on the same network. It does not include internet access...but the companies' own network traffic.
If mid/large companies want net access this is what they would go for:
http://www.business.ntl.com/internet_products/dedicated_internet_access/index.php
icanadvise
04-02-2006, 21:56
Erm, because NTL businees uses a method to deliver 100 Meg + broadband, it does not follow it would be feasible (or even practical) for NTL home to offer it. Remember, businesses can (and do) pay £1,000 + a month for connections. I cannot imagine the average home consumer wanting to pay even £100.
precisely Stu !! as you say its a 'businees' service with high-class video-conferencing not yer 'average home consumer' service
Erm, because NTL businees uses a method to deliver 100 Meg + broadband, it does not follow it would be feasible (or even practical) for NTL home to offer it. Remember, businesses can (and do) pay £1,000 + a month for connections. I cannot imagine the average home consumer wanting to pay even £100.
precisely Stu !! as you say its a 'businees' service with high-class video-conferencing not yer 'average home consumer' service
Yeah, but the original article in post 1 seems to be suggesting they are trialing a 100 Meg home service. They have been able to offer fast links to businesses for years. *If* they are trialling a 100 Meg home service, then they would have to bring prices down to the point where using the same hardware they use for business may not be feasible.
Chrysalis
05-02-2006, 04:42
Well if its fibre how much would have to be laid to fund a ntl home service? If they do this would we see ntl relaying cables in analogue tv areas to support digital tv?
I am very suspect about this, ntl appear to be repeating history by rolling out new technologies without ensuring their existing footprint has a universal service, I wonder if we will have some areas with 100mbit internet no speed fluctuations, digital tv + vod. Other areas same price with 10meg lines that cant hit 1meg and no digital tv. I would like to see ntl sort that out first.
squirrel1970
05-02-2006, 11:21
I wouldn't mind 100megs... the only thing is.. our poor delapidated modem (which needs a good kicking) can't see past 2.6megs....
but a hearty golfclap about the 'p*ss up' and 'brewery' :)
Ignition
05-02-2006, 18:38
for pitys sake try to keep up people its been on their website at least 3 months http://www.business.ntl.com/ethernet/metro.php
no secret no one has to kill anyone :dozey:
Miles off that's been available for ages, point to point connections. :dozey: back at you. For pity's sake RTFM.
---------- Post added at 18:37 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------
Well if its fibre how much would have to be laid to fund a ntl home service? If they do this would we see ntl relaying cables in analogue tv areas to support digital tv?
I am very suspect about this, ntl appear to be repeating history by rolling out new technologies without ensuring their existing footprint has a universal service, I wonder if we will have some areas with 100mbit internet no speed fluctuations, digital tv + vod. Other areas same price with 10meg lines that cant hit 1meg and no digital tv. I would like to see ntl sort that out first.
It's not fibre and chill out, it's a trial.
---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------
I think this is coming down the copper phone line ADSL2+
ADSL2+ according to the national frequency plan can't go above 24Mbps downstream 1.3Mbps upstream.
Ignition
05-02-2006, 21:50
VDSL.
*Family Fortunes sound*
Unlikely to be VDSL(2).
icanadvise
05-02-2006, 22:28
Tis not DOCSIS 3. :erm: plenty to choose from then you missed out the 'quite' b4 DOCSIS ? http://www.arrisi.com/press/pressdetail.asp?id=268
http://broadband.motorola.com/ips/pdf/Scaling_Bandwidth.pdf
http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA513765.html?industryid=43679
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/netsol/ns3/networking_solutions_solution_category.html
Ignition
05-02-2006, 22:47
:erm: plenty to choose from then you missed out the 'quite' b4 DOCSIS ? http://www.arrisi.com/press/pressdetail.asp?id=268
http://broadband.motorola.com/ips/pdf/Scaling_Bandwidth.pdf
http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA513765.html?industryid=43679
http://www.cisco.com/en/US/netsol/ns3/networking_solutions_solution_category.html
English please.
Anyway grats, a couple of links to DOCSIS 3 kit, a broken (at the moment) link to CED magazine, and a Cisco guide to backhauling existing cable networks with metro ethernet and using traffic aggregators, which will have about as much chance of accelerating people to 100Mbit on its' own as someone lighting their own flatulation will have of taking them to the moon.
I fail to see what this supports, you said it was the point to point metro ethernet product, now you're trying to say it's DOCSIS 3.
Being argumentative for the fun of it isn't big or clever dude. Though there's most of the potential options gone.
---------- Post added at 22:47 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------
Meh this is silly.
As I don't 'know' this for a fact and it wasn't discussed while I was there I guess no NDA applies as this is just what I think based on my knowledge of the systems.
http://www.naradnetworks.com/ For the win!
DaggaDagga
06-02-2006, 11:49
Thanks, Ignition.100Mb downstream, and 100Mb upstream. Looks promising.On a moaning note, why do people insist on using completely meaningless thread names, e.g. "Check This Out". Tells you nothing - wouldn't "100Mb broadband" be more interesting, and actually get read by people?
Ignition
06-02-2006, 13:07
"Fibre can carry up to one gigabit," said NTL bigwig Keith Monserrat. "It will be relatively straightforward for NTL to provide speeds of at least 100 megabytes per second across its entire network. By contrast, BT's planned 21st Century network will not be able to deliver speeds above 10 megabytes."
Hope it's more straightforward than your apparent difficulty in learning the difference between megabits and megabytes Keith, you've been getting them wrong in your releases for ages ;)
Last I checked fibre can carry a tad more than a gigabit too :)
RTFM Mr Monserrat, if you're going to talk techy talk propah like otherwise shush, you just opened yourself up to getting torn apart all over the place with the above ****e.
Is an entire channel 63mhz for 100mbit?
If so, surely bonding the 6/8mhz channels with DOCSIS 3.0 will produce a far greater available bandwith as a whole?
handyman
06-02-2006, 14:34
But would bonding those 2 channels require ntl to have to replace all equipment in one go?
From the look of it this will allow them to implement the 100mbit on top of the standard service then phase out the older service gradually reducing the immediate impact on resources.
DaggaDagga
06-02-2006, 14:40
Anyone know how many customers are typically connected to each coaxial cable trunk? Surely this won't equate to 100Mb per subscriber, so they'll have to throttle each user to (say) 10Mb.
Why hasn't my connection been upgraded to 100Mb yet? It's not fair. NTL are really useless and slow, I'm gonna contact Watchdog/Ofcom/Court of Human Rights etc, etc. :)
Why hasn't my connection been upgraded to 100Mb yet? It's not fair. NTL are really useless and slow, I'm gonna contact Watchdog/Ofcom/Court of Human Rights etc, etc. :)
Please don't give them any ideas. :rolleyes:
Even with 100MB to each user I'll bet some people would still have something to complain about.
Please don't give them any ideas. :rolleyes:
Even with 100MB to each user I'll bet some people would still have something to complain about.Ye, I'd complain if there was something to complain about.
Any idea what cap they're gonna slap on this service level? :disturbd:
AbyssUnderground
06-02-2006, 16:54
Maybe 1GB a day? A month?!
UncleBooBoo
06-02-2006, 17:12
100Mb........Ha give us a break!
They can't even supply 10Mb! :D
Ignition
06-02-2006, 17:15
100Mb........Ha give us a break!
They can't even supply 10Mb! :D
Pay attention and actually read the posts ;) The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other ;)
UncleBooBoo
06-02-2006, 17:21
My response is to the overall header "Check This Out - ntl 100Mbps"
Allthough 100Mb's wouldn't mind that!
joggerspark
06-02-2006, 19:19
if they can actually get it working satisfactorily even if its up to 100 & one can achieve anywhere near 95 its something to look forward to..
If this 100MB service is to be released to us customers at some point in the near future, surely ntl would need to free up bandwith first. Turning off the analogue tv signals would seem to be the indicator to watch out for that such a fast broadband service is about to be launched. So possibly by the end of the year, early next, we might just, just, have a 100MB service with multiple HDTV streams with oodles of space left for internet downloading to look forward to....waking up from dream:) But, as said, what about those caps? No point having a 100MB connection if you can only download a "meesly" 75 Gigs. A day's worth of HDTV shows would use the current allowance, so I've been told....;)
homealone
06-02-2006, 20:08
If this 100MB service is to be released to us customers at some point in the near future, surely ntl would need to free up bandwith first. Turning off the analogue tv signals would seem to be the indicator to watch out for that such a fast broadband service is about to be launched. So possibly by the end of the year, early next, we might just, just, have a 100MB service with multiple HDTV streams with oodles of space left for internet downloading to look forward to....waking up from dream:) But, as said, what about those caps? No point having a 100MB connection if you can only download a "meesly" 75 Gigs. A day's worth of HDTV shows would use the current allowance, so I've been told....;)
I agree that switching off analogue will free up bandwidth, but I'm not sure if you are being optimistic on the timescale. There are still areas of NTL that can only get analogue, for example - I guess that will have to be addressed, first?
So while I am excited at the potential for our future services, I am not expecting much to happen, any time soon. :)
Gosh, there are some bright people about. Some of you are barking up the right tree here.
Just like with the 10mb, first to announce it but Blueyonder and some ADSL ISP's beat them to it
Which ADSL ISPs? I'll give you blueyonder with a few months headstart.
Ig - I hope you aren't sticking your neck out, old son. Feel free to drop me a note letting me know the bits I don't.
General note - ntl try all sorts of things, generally they don't go ahead but sometimes they do. Best not to read anything into this other than the usual market incentive to go faster/cheaper/quicker than anyone else*. It'll happen, but I don't know when.
* Insert 'they can't even get 10Mb right' gripe here.
im definetly looking forward for 100Mbps connection like in sweden and other places in asia :D
Another point on whether we get this 100mb is money. Both ntl and Telewest are in hugely in debt and according to the Telwest merger document I received yestesday, the merger is going to cost a hell of a lot more money. The more in debt a company is the less it can borrow and has to pay higher rates. Will ntl have enough dosh to roll this 100MB out, or this just a pipe dream? Wouldn't it be more sensible to offer the customer fibre to the home, charge the customer a few 100 quid installation, then offer as much speed, hdtv, vod, catv services etc as can be pumped down the pipe? All for a cost of course.
---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------
I agree that switching off analogue will free up bandwidth, but I'm not sure if you are being optimistic on the timescale. There are still areas of NTL that can only get analogue, for example - I guess that will have to be addressed, first?
Yes, and as I posted above this is because of money. Plus, there's nothing stopping BT offering fibre to the home and they don't even have to dig up streets, just connect another wire to their poles. They would really cause ntl problems. In America the former bells are now offering fibre to the home, posing a real threat to the cable cos there.
Another point on whether we get this 100mb is money. Both ntl and Telewest are in hugely in debt and according to the Telwest merger document I received yestesday, the merger is going to cost a hell of a lot more money. The more in debt a company is the less it can borrow and has to pay higher rates. Will ntl have enough dosh to roll this 100MB out, or this just a pipe dream? Wouldn't it be more sensible to offer the customer fibre to the home, charge the customer a few 100 quid installation, then offer as much speed, hdtv, vod, catv services etc as can be pumped down the pipe? All for a cost of course.
---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------
Yes, and as I posted above this is because of money. Plus, there's nothing stopping BT offering fibre to the home and they don't even have to dig up streets, just connect another wire to their poles. They would really cause ntl problems. In America the former bells are now offering fibre to the home, posing a real threat to the cable cos there.
Like you have already said, NTL and Telewest will be in more debt after this merger so less money is going to be available, unless of course the company is then bought up by some other bigfirm and money is made available that way,(which could happen). So providing fibre to the home would involve a huge investment which just isn't going to happen at the moment, the cable networks of NTL and Telewest are only just starting to be utilised, the equipment that is already in the ground has not yet begun to pay back what it has cost to put in, they don't need fibre to the home yet, the next investment will be VOIP. Yes this will cost but not as much as FTTH will, NTL is trying to get as much out of the network without having to spend too much at the moment, apart from upgrades to the broadband network that is it and i can't see much money being invested on FTTH for years.
DaggaDagga
06-02-2006, 22:22
BT would have to dig up the streets where cables are underground (any modern estate). Even re-stringing the poles would be a major job.
Ignition's link gives details about what *might* be under trial by NTL. It uses out-of-band frequencies within the existing coax cable (just as ADSL does on a voice line). So, it doesn't require any digging or replacement of cable. Just a new modem and a few bells and whistles within the network. They claim it can all be installed without disrupting any existing equipment.
Note that, as it's outside the existing spectrum, this is not dependant on NTL switching off the analogue TV. It uses frequencies that are currently used for precisely nothing.
This has got to be good news. I just wonder what will be fast enough? I can't see much use for anything above 20Mb myself, but then again I did once think the internet was like teletext with pictures.
Chrysalis
07-02-2006, 04:40
If I read that doc right on the site the backbone for this would be 400mbit 4 x copper (in the local area) so like how the 10meg is the customer's max is 25% of the capacity for his area making it easy to saturate or have I got it completely wrong. Their is a downside to this and something makes me think it wont perform well in a mass market, if it was such a miracle technology other countries wouldnt be spending cash on fibre rollouts.
As for what homealone said judging ntl by their past history it wouldnt surprise me the slightest if the analogue only areas and areas unable to get above 1megabit in the evenings were left in their current states whilst this is pushed so they can have more marketing bragging rights.
Ignition
07-02-2006, 09:30
I am actually astonished that people expect a connection like this to be anything but saturated at peak times.
Ask someone on Bredbandsbolaget Sweden or NTTK fibre in Japan how often they see 100Mbit or anywhere near ;)
The PON networks they run on split 622Mbit downstream and only 155Mbit between 32 homes. Server 100Mbit down each of those, well, you can see the issues.
As the max speeds go up, so the % of that max speed you can expect to reliably get goes down.
Ask someone on Bredbandsbolaget Sweden or NTTK fibre in Japan how often they see 100Mbit or anywhere near ;)
aldrig or konrinzai?
I am actually astonished that people expect a connection like this to be anything but saturated at peak times.
Ask someone on Bredbandsbolaget Sweden or NTTK fibre in Japan how often they see 100Mbit or anywhere near ;)
The PON networks they run on split 622Mbit downstream and only 155Mbit between 32 homes. Server 100Mbit down each of those, well, you can see the issues.
As the max speeds go up, so the % of that max speed you can expect to reliably get goes down.
the question id ask from this UPTO speed will they set a minimum Quality of service (which i think they should do with the 10mbit but maybe they cant atm) so you are gurranteed a certian minimum speed?
instead of selling it as 100mbit if they sold it as 4mbit (100mbit burstable) or something like that people wouldnt be able to complain when they didn't hit 100mbit.
like instead of doing Upto 10mbit why dont they make it 3mbit burstable to 10 or something so then everyone gets a steady 3mbit but if theres more available bandwith it goes faster...?
Ignition
07-02-2006, 22:32
the question id ask from this UPTO speed will they set a minimum Quality of service (which i think they should do with the 10mbit but maybe they cant atm) so you are gurranteed a certian minimum speed?
instead of selling it as 100mbit if they sold it as 4mbit (100mbit burstable) or something like that people wouldnt be able to complain when they didn't hit 100mbit.
like instead of doing Upto 10mbit why dont they make it 3mbit burstable to 10 or something so then everyone gets a steady 3mbit but if theres more available bandwith it goes faster...?
Yeah right like people are going to buy a 4Mbit burstable service when the competition are selling 24Mbit...
You think Joe Bloggs cares about 'burstable' ?
Yeah right like people are going to buy a 4Mbit burstable service when the competition are selling 24Mbit...
You think Joe Bloggs cares about 'burstable' ?
would that be the 24mbit adsl2 with a range of a whopping 300Meters :erm: (least thats what i read on the internet about it)
and im not sure if thats 300meteres from the exchange or 300 meteres of cable, if its the latter then 300meteres might not even get you outside the exchange :shocked:
mandrake
07-02-2006, 23:09
I see they haven't included their standard get-out regarding this new speed, "up to 100MB or 1MB to 100 if your lucky"
Chrysalis
08-02-2006, 01:33
ignition I am starting to see signs that people prefer to have a minimal sustainable level of service rather then a hyped up max speeds that plummets to below what they had previously, now I know in the business of residental broadband speeds will go down during peak time that is to be expected. But I think if the customers max is 25% of the total max that is shared between a couple of hundred people then their is going to be the same problems that we have now with 10meg. 100megabit on fibre eg. isnt linked to a 400mbit backhual it would probably be at least 1 gigabit so 10% of max making it take longer to hit saturation. In japan I believe its sort of like sweden they get good speeds within their own isp so little local saturation but the international peering is crappy so actual internet traffic is poor. Japan cant really do much about that tho it is their location in the world they will suffer distance related problems.
Downloads
08-02-2006, 07:20
would that be the 24mbit adsl2 with a range of a whopping 300Meters :erm: (least thats what i read on the internet about it)
and im not sure if thats 300meteres from the exchange or 300 meteres of cable, if its the latter then 300meteres might not even get you outside the exchange :shocked:
All you are doing is proving Ignotions point though. NTL offer the same type of service as their competitors. A max speed but say it is up to. 'Joe Bloggs' won't care if you are being more honest and thats a fact. They look at the biggest number and then order. People on this forum might have the intelligence and common sense to know the difference and make an educated choice, but the public don't research and just get what they perceive tro be the most bang for their buck.
ignition I am starting to see signs that people prefer to have a minimal sustainable level of service rather then a hyped up max speeds that plummets to below what they had previously, now I know in the business of residental broadband speeds will go down during peak time that is to be expected. But I think if the customers max is 25% of the total max that is shared between a couple of hundred people then their is going to be the same problems that we have now with 10meg. 100megabit on fibre eg. isnt linked to a 400mbit backhual it would probably be at least 1 gigabit so 10% of max making it take longer to hit saturation. In japan I believe its sort of like sweden they get good speeds within their own isp so little local saturation but the international peering is crappy so actual internet traffic is poor. Japan cant really do much about that tho it is their location in the world they will suffer distance related problems.
exactly i have no problems with them saying its UPTO a certian speed all im suggesting is they have a minimum Speed that you should be able to reach regardless of how congested the network is, Its all very well saying you have 100mbit but it would suck if someone down the road was able to hog all the bandwith and everyone else get stuck on sub dialup speeds...
As speeds get higher and congestion on the network gets worse things are only going to get worse unless they set a minimum threshold where anything below that speed is deemed unacceptable.
I know sometimes a slow transfer isn't down to ntl but the speed of whatever it is you are connecting to so i don't expect miricles what I do expect is a standard of service to be kept.
Actually I'm one of the more lucky ones at the moment the 2mbit around here its quite steady but i can see things changing if we have another round of speed increases on the lower teirs.
Ignition
08-02-2006, 09:22
Guys this is a technical trial not a commercial product launch, enough about the semantics of how much you should and shouldn't expect, etc, eh?
dragon regarding your issue, this is certainly doable except people bitch moan and scream as soon as traffic shaping is mentioned. Some resi services already have a minimum guaranteed bandwidth. But again the point is that most people don't actually care...
P.S. Congestion is good if managed properly, means an ISP is making the most of its' assets and can supply services at best possible cost, however contrary to the beliefs of some that a 'dumb' network is the best way of doing this networks are increasing in intelligence in an attempt to balance the needs of P2P monsters with gamers with occasional browsers with news leechers.
P.P.S. Any service delivering 100Mbit that isn't being done over BPON or GPON will only, if you're lucky, give you near 100Mbit to your next door neighbour at 5:01am on a Sunday with the wind blowing in the right direction and a swiftly risen sun shining on your back.
Fair enough Ignition I hope with all the congestion caused by 10mbit they will consider taking measures to ensure stablity of the current offerings before even thinking about faster speeds.
Ignition
08-02-2006, 21:15
Fair enough Ignition I hope with all the congestion caused by 10mbit they will consider taking measures to ensure stablity of the current offerings before even thinking about faster speeds.
Doesn't matter different technologies.
Wonder how long before NTL start rolling this out (or something faster than 10MB) as I think the cable companies pride themselves on being one step ahead of ADSL. It has just come out that by the end of March most exchanges will MAXDSL enabled so many users will be able to get upto 8MB speeds. Though it remains to be seen how reliable this will be :)
Chrysalis
09-02-2006, 02:10
Hmm would it be feasible for them to rollout this new tech as a backbone for 10mbit so keeping the same service but at a higher quality level?
But haven't NTL said that quote is 1 year old ? I find it hard to believe they are currently doing trials of 100mbit broadband
handyman
09-02-2006, 16:30
P.P.S. Any service delivering 100Mbit that isn't being done over BPON or GPON will only, if you're lucky, give you near 100Mbit to your next door neighbour at 5:01am on a Sunday with the wind blowing in the right direction and a swiftly risen sun shining on your back.
I have 2 computers linked through about 1.5m of patch cable and a 100mbs router. I don't even get 100mbs between them.
Consumers won't ever be able to comprehend that and will start complaining whn it goes below 80mbs (if they could even get that high)
To be able to provide consistent 100mbs speed the network would have to be at least 200mbs. (guess)
I have 2 computers linked through about 1.5m of patch cable and a 100mbs router. I don't even get 100mbs between them.
Consumers won't ever be able to comprehend that and will start complaining whn it goes below 80mbs (if they could even get that high)
To be able to provide consistent 100mbs speed the network would have to be at least 200mbs. (guess)
Er, I got 11mb/s on my old 100mbit ADSL router :) Now I get 23mb/s on my 1000mbit router. As for BBB, the swedish ISP, speeds seem very stable. I can usually get about 900kb/s from a BB 100/10 user :)
This 100mb/s speed sounds very good, lets hope they dont stick a stupid cap on it (75gb would be used in as little as 2.5 hours approx)
AbyssUnderground
09-02-2006, 23:48
This 100mb/s speed sounds very good, lets hope they dont stick a stupid cap on it (75gb would be used in as little as 2.5 hours approx)
A cap of 1TB would be more respectable :p:
Ignition
10-02-2006, 10:04
I have 2 computers linked through about 1.5m of patch cable and a 100mbs router. I don't even get 100mbs between them.
Consumers won't ever be able to comprehend that and will start complaining whn it goes below 80mbs (if they could even get that high)
To be able to provide consistent 100mbs speed the network would have to be at least 200mbs. (guess)
To be able to provide consistent 100Mbps will require way more than 200Mbps to be shared out unless you have like 5 houses on there.
If it's 100Mbps of ethernet level bandwidth and you get 11MB/s on it be happy. Just to point out no-one on 10Mbps gets 10Mbps people see 8.8 - 9.2.
Patch cable != crossover cable by the way which will almost certainly be what is linking your PCs to the router. Though its' ports might auto-cross I guess.
handyman
10-02-2006, 10:22
Patch cable != crossover cable by the way which will almost certainly be what is linking your PCs to the router. Though its' ports might auto-cross I guess.
Sorry by patch cable I meant short ethernet cable.
A bit more info from here (http://www.chetnet.co.uk/portal/forum/showthread.php?t=6211)
“We are delighted to have the support of our technology partner ARRIS in order to demonstrate the significant potential of our cable network,” said Kevin Baughan ntl’s Director of Network Strategy. “Following a highly successful trial in our labs, we are looking forward to commencing field trials of the ARRIS FlexPath technology in March.”
Ignition
10-02-2006, 14:11
Yay something official finally.
*Awaits the announcement regarding ethernet over coax as well.
BTW if there's still analogue in your area I wouldn't be expecting to be in the trial of this.
cnewton2k
10-02-2006, 18:18
If it's 100Mbps of ethernet level bandwidth and you get 11MB/s on it be happy. Just to point out no-one on 10Mbps gets 10Mbps people see 8.8 - 9.2
First of all i do get full speed, downloads of about 1.20MB/s all of the time, TBH cant fault their service @ the mo @ all.
Also i found this which might be of intrested, it actually quotes some bod @ NTL
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/83464/ntl-and-bittorrent-debut-uks-first-100mbits-broadband.html
Tis not DOCSIS 3.
ARRIS FlexPath products use the same Packet Bonding technique widely reported as the CableLabs® chosen approach for DOCSIS® 3.0.
Ig, I pwn yr a55. Don't forget it.
I always have a tinge of disquiet over ARRIS, not because of their technology (which I have no experience of, except to know that with Cisco and Motorola and someone else who escapes me they're the big boys of cable modems) but because their name is cockney rhyming slang for 'bottom'. So it's official, ntl are installing a load of bottoms.
icanadvise
10-02-2006, 19:06
Tis not DOCSIS 3.
Ig, I pwn yr a55. Don't forget it.
ROFLMAO
been gone too long :angel:
Ignition
10-02-2006, 20:13
Ig, I pwn yr a55. Don't forget it.
I always have a tinge of disquiet over ARRIS, not because of their technology (which I have no experience of, except to know that with Cisco and Motorola and someone else who escapes me they're the big boys of cable modems) but because their name is cockney rhyming slang for 'bottom'. So it's official, ntl are installing a load of bottoms.
We'll see... I know you've some EoCATV kit in the labs ;)
---------- Post added at 20:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------
ROFLMAO
been gone too long :angel:
Do I need to dignify that with a response? Nah. I may be wrong this one time, you'll always be a moron, time after time :angel:
seen as the chetnet link is no longer working, whats this ARRIS channel bonding about ?
is it upstream and downstream channel bonding for greater speeds for DOCSIS 3.0 deployment ??
edit:
yep it is.
http://www.convergedigest.com/dsl/lastmilearticle.asp?ID=14941
so 100mbit both ways how many users would that take at if thats at node level could a 100mbit service exist with this type of change on the network ?
EDIT 2:
more info here
http://www.cabledatacomnews.com/may05/may05-1.html
Looks like we've been upgraded already...
either that or my firefox can't count ;)
icanadvise
10-02-2006, 22:36
seen as the chetnet link is no longer working,
Looks reet enough here (http://www.chetnet.co.uk/portal/forum/showthread.php?t=6213) to me
Looks reet enough here (http://www.chetnet.co.uk/portal/forum/showthread.php?t=6211) to me
I get
No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
even when logged in to Chetnet....
AbyssUnderground
11-02-2006, 00:27
Works fine here.
sleepless
11-02-2006, 01:53
I have 2 computers linked through about 1.5m of patch cable and a 100mbs router. I don't even get 100mbs between them.
Consumers won't ever be able to comprehend that and will start complaining whn it goes below 80mbs (if they could even get that high)
To be able to provide consistent 100mbs speed the network would have to be at least 200mbs. (guess)
Sort of. I don't see network cards being sold at 200mbs level though ;)
is it upstream and downstream channel bonding for greater speeds for DOCSIS 3.0 deployment ??
Broadly speaking that seems to be the idea - the kit tunes to multiple upstream and downstream channels (and that's going to be fun to monitor) and bonds them together into two huge virtual channels. Apart from anything else it mitigates the effect of interference on particular upstream frequencies and it should see an end to 'move my upstream pleeeeeeeeease' type posts, as you'll already be on four upstreams...
This is all rather hypothetical at this stage, I literally heard about it internally a few days before it went public, so don't expect me to know much more than you ;0
200mbps network cards? Easy peasy, most modern PCs will have gigabit ethernet cards, which is the only way to get true 100mbps performance at the moment - my box which I built in 2003 has two of them.
Who cares about the speeds, the cadant c4 just looks so much shinier than the cisco cmts.
<homer> hmmm.. purdy lights</homer>
:D
AbyssUnderground
11-02-2006, 10:44
Is this going to be 100Mbps in both directions? Or will the upload be lower, like 10Mbps?
etccarmageddon
11-02-2006, 11:32
both directions but it will be 'upto' so expect the true speed to be very variable.
Ignition
11-02-2006, 11:52
Yikes that'll be pushing it just to get 100Mbps upstream on a node. You need a fair whack of spectrum to get that done, and more to the point clean spectrum.
Worth mentioning this trial deployment is just that. You won't be seeing it in your area any time soon if you're not in this initial trial. You won't be seeing it if you still have analogue in your area.
It might not ever become a product. It took a higher order modulation upgrade years to be used on the live network after sitting on a trial network for ages and this is a fair bit more complicated to do than that upgrade.
BTW The Juniper G10 was pretty too, as are the Terayon CMTSes. :)
Wonder what they'll be charging for the new modems that'll be required, they won't be able to get them for the price of a couple of pints ;)
EDIT: I'd guesstimate this will be trialled alongside the Cachelogic boxes in Ashford, that has been analogue free for a while.
EDIT2: Confirmed: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/83464/ntl-and-bittorrent-debut-uks-first-100mbits-broadband.html
markknell
11-02-2006, 14:13
I live in Ashford, Kent and currently use the 10Mbit product. How can I get on this trial or am I asking too much ?? :D
Civilian
11-02-2006, 14:25
am also in ashford in kent (on 10meg) and sooo want to get on this trial !
Chrysalis
11-02-2006, 15:33
Yay something official finally.
*Awaits the announcement regarding ethernet over coax as well.
BTW if there's still analogue in your area I wouldn't be expecting to be in the trial of this.
Doesnt breed confidence, what does this mean, ntl will refuse to get the lower reaches of their footprint caught up in favour of getting a few areas ahead for PR reasons?
Someone posted on another forum it would make sense to put the trial in ntl's worst areas. In other words why not spend the money where its needed anyway and upgrade these areas a few generations in one go so it doesnt need doing again for a while.
the chetnet link gives me this.
No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator
someone got cold feet publishing the info?
I read also on a pcpro link that bittorent are involved and ntl will use some kind of p2p technology to optimise the network.
---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:31 ----------
First of all i do get full speed, downloads of about 1.20MB/s all of the time, TBH cant fault their service @ the mo @ all.
Also i found this which might be of intrested, it actually quotes some bod @ NTL
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/83464/ntl-and-bittorrent-debut-uks-first-100mbits-broadband.html
He is reffering to 100mbit lan, a 10mbit xfer isnt really stressing your lan hardware.
I can fault their service. Peak time congestion on my ubr is approximately 18 hours a day.
darkknight
11-02-2006, 15:52
Cable giant NTL (http://www.ntl.com/) is to field test a 100Mbits/sec broadband service for homes from March at Ashford in Kent, the company revealed today.
The trial, which we flagged last week, (http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/news/2149728/ntl-trials-100mbit-links) is basically of a bandwidth-on-demand system †“ you get 100Mbits/sec when you need it, for instance to download movies.
NTL staged a demonstration at a show flat in Pimlico, London, in which the system delivered three high-definition TV streams simultaneously, leaving bandwidth to spare for other internet uses.
Kevin Baughan, NTL's director of network strategy, pointed out that cable has far more capacity than ADSL+, the latest version and fastest broadband technology to use existing phone lines. That can deliver at most 20Mbit/sec to users close to the exchange, but speeds fall off rapidly with distance because there is no way to boost the signal.
NTL takes fibre with virtually unlimited bandwidth to neighbourhood boxes, where the signals are transferred to a twin cable known as Siamese because it is 'joined at the hip'. One half is coax cable, carrying about 3Gbits/sec, and the other carries three copper twisted pairs for telephony. The latter gives NTL an extra option of delivering ADSL2+ to the home.
But the 100Mbit trial uses the coax half, the new DOCSIS 3.0 cable-data standard, and a wideband modem from Arrisi with technology that segments the available bandwidth into broadcast TV, Video-on-demand, downloads, and ordinary internet traffic
That's Dolphin Square, which is in Pimlico. It wasn't DOCSIS 3.0 last time I looked but you never know - they've got to test it somewhere.
P.S. That PCPro article has an unintended advertising link on it!
Find NTL Boxes on eBay.co.uk
Ignition
11-02-2006, 19:25
Dolphin Square Pimlico was fibre to the home as I remember.
Chrysalis, sadly that same 'everyone must be the same' attitude is what, without LLU, would have badly held back the UK. We can't all have the same. You'll probably find that ntl aren't paying much if anything for this trial, it'll be gratis based on the large amounts of cash Arris might make from ntl if it goes well and ntl start migrating from Cisco to Arris.
Again this is a TRIAL it's not a live deployment. The trial area will probably be a single node for God's sake. Can hardly extrapolate a rollout over 12 million passed homes based on a single node.
Analogue switchoff is coming. It's not as easy as flicking a switch.
Regarding that article, the telco and CATV are not fed by the same fibre. It's also not using DOCSIS 3, it's using a proprietary Arris technology.The writer of the article extrapolated to things he knows nothing about.
Ethernet over coax is one of the technologies alongside the CATV/DOCSIS approach and VDSL thats under evaluation.
ARRIS recently announced a "FlexPath Wideband" product based on the latter technique. Its initial implementation embeds four cable modem chips in a new Wideband cable modem. Each chip can be tuned to a different upstream and downstream DOCSIS channel. The CMTS multiplexes data across up to four downstream channels, and the modem combines packets sent through the four channels to obtain a single higher-speed data stream. The same technique is used for upstream data. Using DOCSIS 2.0, the modem is capable of bi-directional operation at close to 160 Mbps. Interesting, the new modem requires a 1000Base-T ("gigabit Ethernet") computer interface since the conventional 100Base-T interface would limit the maximum speed to 100 Mbps.
ARRIS says the new modem will work with existing ARRIS CMTS equipment after a software download to support channel bonding, and that several MSOs are already running field trials of the new equipment. The new software supports existing single-channel modems on the same DOCSIS channels, using bonding only for the new wideband modems.
Although the announced product is limited to bonding four channels, ARRIS expects later models to bond up to 32 channels, permitting peak speeds of 1 Gbps.
About half way down this page:
http://www.broadbandhomecentral.com/report/backissues/Report0505_4.html
icanadvise
11-02-2006, 20:27
you can probably register for the TRIAL on the site that NTL normally run there trials on . There used to be a general link but you may need to be registered Pointman is the NTL trials guy there
Chrysalis
12-02-2006, 03:56
ok thanks for the extra explanation ignition.
If they can't get the infrastructure organised correctly for 10Mbps, what chance have they got for 100 Mbps? :confused:!
Oh so true... ;)
Has anybody read the news on ADSLGuide? Its like they have read this thread but got their wires crossed :D
icanadvise
12-02-2006, 21:44
Has anybody read the news on ADSLGuide? Its like they have read this thread but got their wires crossed :D
this may sound like a flame but it aint ment that way ! what makes you think that this site hasn't "got their wires crossed"?
I dont see official press releases here (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/236/ntl-in-secret-100mbps-trials) and the resident networking expert wasn't spot on and the only other NTL person I see commenting said don't expect me to know much more than you
Rufus Fook
13-02-2006, 10:59
Has anyone seen this, hope i'm not reposting old stuff.
http://www.arrisi.com/press/pressdetail.asp?id=294
ford fairlane
14-02-2006, 03:47
Thids may have been asked/answered already but at speeds of 100meg per sec would current hard drives be able to cope with the speed of the data being fed to it
cheers
Sherlock614
14-02-2006, 04:36
I'm no tech :p:
But to quote a piece from Western Digital's site:
"Fast 7200 RPM spindle speed and SATA 150 MB/s interface".
One of their slower drives.
Theoretically USB 2.0 should be able to cope. I hope to [insert deity of your choice] that they don't go down that route though! It's only* 12.5Mbytes/second after all. Servers and modern workstations with gigabit ethernet connections can throw far more than that across the wires with no obvious detriment.
* cripes...how far we've come since 28800 baud analogue modems.
See post #95 above. Apparently it uses a gigabit ethernet connection.
ford fairlane
14-02-2006, 19:50
thanks for the info :)
I remember the time on DCC hubs looking at all those with 8 and 10mbit two or so years back, thinking how we would never see that. I didn't even bother about thinking about 100mbit, its the same feeling as I have now about getting 1gbit HK style.
So if technology keeps on moving like it is...who knows where we could be....1gbit? =) /shields self from those beating me down for that comment
enjoymarcus
16-02-2006, 16:26
I remember the time on DCC hubs looking at all those with 8 and 10mbit two or so years back, thinking how we would never see that. I didn't even bother about thinking about 100mbit, its the same feeling as I have now about getting 1gbit HK style.
So if technology keeps on moving like it is...who knows where we could be....1gbit? =) /shields self from those beating me down for that comment
1Gbit? That would still mean i would have to wait 4.5 seconds to download a DVD, thats just not good enough :mad: .. anyone got the email address to send complaints too?
etccarmageddon
16-02-2006, 16:58
wouldn't it be 4.5 seconds if it's 1Gbyte but at 1Gbit we're talking more like 36 seconds?
enjoymarcus
16-02-2006, 20:56
wouldn't it be 4.5 seconds if it's 1Gbyte but at 1Gbit we're talking more like 36 seconds?
It gets worse!! Details Details, anyway, shouldn't you be asking why i would be downloading a DVD? :p:
yeh,why are you downloading dvd's??,Lol im on to you!
yeh,why are you downloading dvd's??,Lol im on to you!
DVD Iso's of Linux distros obviously. 3/4 CD's are so 2005. And we all know fine well that linus distribtions is all that bandwidth hogs download. ;)
DVD Iso's of Linux distros obviously. 3/4 CD's are so 2005. And we all know fine well that linus distribtions is all that bandwidth hogs download. ;)
Linux distro's are so 2005. Me i just download DVD's and TV eps. Sometimes i will try to download the internet as well ;) :D
etccarmageddon
17-02-2006, 14:03
I assume a person downloading a DVD is doing it for research purposes - e.g. to test the speed of their connection!
I assume a person downloading a DVD is doing it for research purposes - e.g. to test the speed of their connection!
Thats as might be. Me i do it to watch the dam thing on a try before you buy system ;):angel:
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