ntl truly unlimited?

[dcclanuk]

Hey guys, just joined CF this minute!

I wanted to know if the new ntl unlimited packages are TRULY UNLIMITED?
This is because I am due to get ntl bband [1mb] on the 30th of this month.

I was with tiscali [2mb] so called unlimited which was always slow, and u were not allowed to use it much at the most convenient time of the day which was quite silly! [peak time of 6-11pm].

I am currently with f2s since only about 2 months, but since pipex took them over the speeds are rubbish, and now they have some traffic "prioritising" thing.

So I wanna know the real deal of ntl!

Thanks...

[Stuart]

:welcome: to CableForum.

There are no caps as such on the new "Unlimited" tarrifs.

[dcclanuk]

:welcome: to CableForum.

There are no caps as such on the new "Unlimited" tarrifs.

thx for the reply... that is nice to know...

its not that i dl much.... 10-12gb or thereabouts i guess...?

[sleepless]

Probably not a true unlimited as they can always call upon the 'User Policy' which currently states:

Broadband Internet Service

(download speed) Monthly Allowance Monthly Price
512K 1GB £14.99 1
512K Unlimited £17.99 2
1Mb 3GB £17.99
2Mb 3 30GB £24.99
10Mb 75GB £37.99 So we have a situation where ntl are in breach of advertising standards and are liable for prosecution for obtaining payment for false representation of service.

or whatever the legal stand point is. Whatever it can not be legal. :rolleyes:

[dcclanuk]

Probably not a true unlimited as they can always call upon the 'User Policy' which currently states:

So we have a situation where ntl are in breach of advertising standards and are liable for prosecution for obtaining payment for false representation of service.

or whatever the legal stand point is. Whatever it can not be legal. :rolleyes:

huh? on their website it says UNLIMITED?

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

[sleepless]

huh? on their website it says UNLIMITED?

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband
A pity they didn't update their user policy

http://www.home.ntl.com/page/userpolicy&source=ntlworld

section 20.2

[Stuart]

Probably not a true unlimited as they can always call upon the 'User Policy' which currently states:

Broadband Internet Service

(download speed) Monthly Allowance Monthly Price
512K 1GB £14.99 1
512K Unlimited £17.99 2
1Mb 3GB £17.99
2Mb 3 30GB £24.99
10Mb 75GB £37.99 So we have a situation where ntl are in breach of advertising standards and are liable for prosecution for obtaining payment for false representation of service.

or whatever the legal stand point is. Whatever it can not be legal. :rolleyes:



Err, I suspect NTL have run the AUP past their lawyers.

[sleepless]

Err, I suspect NTL have run the AUP past their lawyers.

That may be true but how come they have limits in their AUP? Surely and oversite atleast. ;)

[Chris W]

So we have a situation where ntl are in breach of advertising standards and are liable for prosecution for obtaining payment for false representation of service.

or whatever the legal stand point is. Whatever it can not be legal. :rolleyes:


:rofl: you don't have any legal experience or qualifications do you?

check the date on the user policy... oh you might want to do some research about advertising standards and i would be grateful if you could point me in the direction of the legislation which deals with "obtaining payment for false representation of service" ...

[SLM]

It may be for people who sign up for the 1meg link and then really take the micheal with down loading!

[sleepless]

:rofl: you don't have any legal experience or qualifications do you?

check the date on the user policy... oh you might want to do some research about advertising standards and i would be grateful if you could point me in the direction of the legislation which deals with "obtaining payment for false representation of service" ...

Get off your high horse FFS.

All I done was post the current ntlworld AUP and you have a pop.
It's not my fault it says something completely different form their sales pitch. Too me that is wrong and against advertising standards. I may be wring legally but it is not right.

Are you saying it is correct for sales to say it is unlimited but OK for the AUP to say there are limits? A straight yes or no please.

[Chris W]

I am sure if you contact ntl they will give you an upto date copy of their AUP- indeed when new customers sign up to the 1/2 meg service they will agree to TOS, and these will have been updated to reflect the package that people are signing up for.

[sleepless]

I am sure if you contact ntl they will give you an upto date copy of their AUP- indeed when new customers sign up to the 1/2 meg service they will agree to TOS, and these will have been updated to reflect the package that people are signing up for.
A yes or no please.

They are, after all advertising via the online AUP, their definitive clauses as described in their T&C's something completely different from what their sales are advising.

here:

Part C - Interactive Services and Internet Services

4. Your Use

4.1 Your access to the Interactive Services and Internet Services is subject to you complying with this Agreement and our User Policy at all times. Any use of the Interactive Services and/or Internet Services by you which disrupts the normal use of the service for other users is a misuse of the Interactive Services and/or Internet Services. Serious misuse could lead to criminal prosecution or civil liability.

....

4.3 We reserve the right to monitor and control data volume and/or types of traffic transmitted via the Interactive Services and/or Internet Services. In the event that you exceed the usage allowances applicable to your Internet Services as detailed in the User Policy, we reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to reduce, suspend or terminate your Internet Services. During any time of reduction or suspension, you will remain liable for the payment of your original level of Internet Services charge. We also reserve the right (at our sole discretion) to re-grade your Internet Services to a different speed and/or usage allowance at the appropriate charge.


I'm sure this has been passed by the ntl legal dept. too.

I am sure this is an oversight by ntl and will be addressed at some point in the future. but as it stands the AUP and via association, the T&C's are in direct contradiction to the sales pitch employed.

I do not claim to be any legal expert here but I can see a major fault that needs to be addressed. I am sure that ntl would not resort to the T&C's/AUP for instances that fall within services that are advertised for sale as unlimited.

NOTE: I have no axe to grind agaisnt ntl or anyone defending them, I just find the terms currently advertised as misleading.

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------

[ADMIN EDIT - Russ - uneccessary and inflammatory comment removed]

[Ignition]

Your last post shows nothing interesting, those phrases need to be there for the 10Mbit service.

The fact that the user policy isn't up to date just goes to show how various departments in ntl don't talk to each other. It'll probably be updated once the always highly worked legal department (their workload was at least when I was there due to empire building, IE a please keep us as no-one else can do the most basic of tasks that we might remotely be involved in) take the time to update it, and the web designer edits it.

Considering the usual standard of internal comms within ntl it'll probably be updated within the next 6 months.

Nothing illegal about any of this I'm afraid though. If they all have the 'correct as of' stuff in them there's the get out phrase.

[sleepless]

Your last post shows nothing interesting, those phrases need to be there for the 10Mbit service.

The fact that the user policy isn't up to date just goes to show how various departments in ntl don't talk to each other. It'll probably be updated once the always highly worked legal department (their workload was at least when I was there due to empire building, IE a please keep us as no-one else can do the most basic of tasks that we might remotely be involved in) take the time to update it, and the web designer edits it.

Considering the usual standard of internal comms within ntl it'll probably be updated within the next 6 months.

Nothing illegal about any of this I'm afraid though. If they all have the 'correct as of' stuff in them there's the get out phrase.

Cheers Ignition, still mighty confusing to the average Jo though.;)

[jtwn]

Hey guys, just joined CF this minute!

I wanted to know if the new ntl unlimited packages are TRULY UNLIMITED?
This is because I am due to get ntl bband [1mb] on the 30th of this month.

I was with tiscali [2mb] so called unlimited which was always slow, and u were not allowed to use it much at the most convenient time of the day which was quite silly! [peak time of 6-11pm].

I am currently with f2s since only about 2 months, but since pipex took them over the speeds are rubbish, and now they have some traffic "prioritising" thing.

So I wanna know the real deal of ntl!

Thanks...

I think you have just been witha few bad apples, tiscali just have odd ideas about what unlimited should mean and as you say f2s appear to have shaping or their network is having problems from what I've read.

Time will tell how ntl are playing the game, but ntl had been lax with their previous 1gb/day cap to 150gb so whats to say that they just are not bothered as long as degradation of service to others isn't an effect.

[Ignition]

If you are expecting a service that isn't traffic shaped ever I would expect you to be disappointed though.

---------- Post added at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was at 00:04 ----------

Cheers Ignition, still mighty confusing to the average Jo though.;)

OK :) Comes down to 3 things.

Illegal: no
Incompetent: yes
Confusing: yes

There we go :)

[sleepless]

OK :) Comes down to 3 things.

Illegal: no
Incompetent: yes
Confusing: yes

There we go :)

Sounds good to me :)

Edit: sort out formatting, I've had a few sherries you know :)

[grubbymitts]

I think it'll all come down to Fair Use. Is it fair to have your connection running 24/7 at full speed downloading from FTP/P2P/Newsgroups/iTunes/BBC/Sky Broadband et al? This may cause problems in your area, which will lead to service degradation for others.

At 2mb, you can download something like 600gb of data in a month. Far too much for anyone to ever watch/play/use and is probably only being done by those naughty buggers who sell pirate DVDs/games at car boot sales.

So, fair use will come into it. Turn off the PC every so often and they'll probably leave you alone.

And those that are concerned about NTL's AUP - it hasnt been updated yet, that's all. They're a massive company - communication breaks down all the time (a bit like their services ;) ) - it'll get updated.


And for all those using P2P - set your freakin upload to 10k/s - you'll still get full whack downloads if you have the seeds and you won't codge up the upstream and bugger everyone else on your UBR up, thus keeping the powers that be off your back a little longer!
Rant over ;)