View Full Version : MERGED: Plz tell me this is a joke
Graham F
29-10-2003, 22:15
Fraz is now (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?p=534457#post534457) an Admin on dot com site :eeek:
Oh well it was nice to still have a site that worked when Frank left, the end is coming soon..... :mis:
I so wish it was a joke...
Whats wrong with Fraz? (A completely innocent question btw)
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 22:24
Hi everyone,
I have posted here a few times, but spent most of my time on .com
As Fraz has now been made a mod over there (and other reasons) I have decided not to bother with the site any more, or have anything to do with it.
I'll be keeping an eye on the 'welcome Fraz' thread and PMing people tonight, but after tonight I'm not going there for love nor money.
So, I thought I'd take this opportunity to say hi all and let you know I'm moving in :D
Whats wrong with Fraz? (A completely innocent question btw)
When I was on the team he caused so many problem for us that we had to report him to his superior at NTL. Apparently I'm not permitted to go in to the details of what he did but he was considered a thorn in the side of the team for a long time, this was even noted by some at Hook. Funny how he seems to have changed now...
Graham F
29-10-2003, 22:28
Hi Stuart :wavey:
Good to see you have made a wise move. To correct you Fraz is actually an Admin not a mod ;)
Hi everyone,
I have posted here a few times, but spent most of my time on .com
As Fraz has now been made a mod over there (and other reasons) I have decided not to bother with the site any more, or have anything to do with it.
I'll be keeping an eye on the 'welcome Fraz' thread and PMing people tonight, but after tonight I'm not going there for love nor money.
So, I thought I'd take this opportunity to say hi all and let you know I'm moving in :D
:welcome: :wavey: good to see ya here
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 22:31
Hi Stuart :wavey:
Good to see you have made a wise move. To correct you Fraz is actually an Admin not a mod ;)
Thanx for the correction ;)
Well, him holding *ANY* position in the nthw.com ranks is more than reason enough to NEVER post there again.
[Edit] :wavey: Hi Bexy, I feel welcome allready ;)
Hi Stuart :wavey:
Good to see you have made a wise move. To correct you Fraz is actually an Admin not a mod ;)
Am I the only one with alarm bells ringing???
Well, I'm going to stay open minded about it and continue posting on .com
If things start to take a turn for the worse, then I may well reconsider.
Graham F
29-10-2003, 22:33
Am I the only one with alarm bells ringing???
nope hence this thread :erm:
MadGamer
29-10-2003, 22:35
Hi everyone,
I have posted here a few times, but spent most of my time on .com
As Fraz has now been made a mod over there (and other reasons) I have decided not to bother with the site any more, or have anything to do with it.
I'll be keeping an eye on the 'welcome Fraz' thread and PMing people tonight, but after tonight I'm not going there for love nor money.
So, I thought I'd take this opportunity to say hi all and let you know I'm moving in :D So you'll be on this site from now on then? :)
(I moved over from .com on the day that this site was launched)
Well, I'm going to stay open minded about it and continue posting on .com
If things start to take a turn for the worse, then I may well reconsider.
tbh i gave up posting on there when frank went
glad you feel welcome stuart :kiss:
nope hence this thread :erm:
It was a rhetorical question ;) :cool:
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 22:38
So you'll be on this site from now on then? :)
Yep ;)
I wish I had come over earlyer to be honest.
There's nothing wrong with .com really, the admin team seem to be a good bunch (I know one of them personally and have spoke on the phone to another 2) but their latest recruit comes to the team with a past which has more than a few people feeling uncomfortable. My guess is AshG put him there.
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 22:43
I get on well with Neil from .com and will continue to do so (hopefully!) but that's about it.
I was gonna leave .com some time ago, but Neil talked me in to staying, but putting Fraz in the Admin team was a HUGE mistake in my book.
Am I the only one with alarm bells ringing???UDT's account appears to have been suspended on .com today...
UDT's account appears to have been suspended on .com today...
Probably unrelated I'd say.
There's nothing wrong with .com really, the admin team seem to be a good bunch (I know one of them personally and have spoke on the phone to another 2) but their latest recruit comes to the team with a past which has more than a few people feeling uncomfortable. My guess is AshG put him there.
yes they are....neil is a diamond.......
poolking
29-10-2003, 22:51
So I take it that this individual isn't very popular over at .com? I haven't come across him to really comment.
Some people find him to ok.....
What I think should be realised is he would be the first person put on the team by NTL, as opposed to being voted on or invited by the mods/admins. That in itself should be noted.
I'm surprised that they made him an admin straight away, thats not normal practise is it Russ?
I wonder who'll be next, Kerry Ann? :LOL:
Probably unrelated I'd say.Oh defintly. It just seemed a bit heavy handed....
I'm surprised that they made him an admin straight away, thats not normal practise is it Russ?
My opinion would be that NTL have been thinking about this for a while and have been waiting for the right time to 'spring it on us'.
homealone
29-10-2003, 23:08
Some people find him to ok.....
What I think should be realised is he would be the first person put on the team by NTL, as opposed to being voted on or invited by the mods/admins. That in itself should be noted.
correct - fraz, in himself, has never seemed to me like a bad guy, he does post, with respect given, on all 3 main "hell" forums.
However - he is (correct me if I am wrong?) - associated with the security/legal side of NTL - given the recent data protection thread - in which fraz had an opinion, is this benign?
- I have an open mind - it doesn't affect us here;)
Bill Payer
29-10-2003, 23:09
(snip)...As Fraz has now been made a mod over there (and other reasons) I have decided not to bother with the site any more, or have anything to do with it. (snip)
:cry:awww. Didn't they ask you?
However - he is (correct me if I am wrong?) - associated with the security/legal side of NTL - given the recent data protection thread - in which fraz had an opinion, is this be benign?
I don't think there's a connection there - from what I can see the decision to put him on the team was made before any of the current DPA issues came up.
downquark1
29-10-2003, 23:10
on all 3 main "hell" forums. :eek:You mean there's a third one!!!!!! :D
...and noticed how his sig has been slightly modified....might be nothing, might be something.....
Graham F
29-10-2003, 23:16
...and noticed how his sig has been slightly modified....might be nothing, might be something.....
yes I noticed that before.
it basically means he is now a mouth piece for ntl from what i can gather!!!
That should come as no surprise really, it's the direction the site has been heading for a long time, hence the birth on this site.
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 23:19
:cry:awww. Didn't they ask you?
Grow up. :rolleyes:
Just seems a little sick to me, putting an Ntl manager in an admin position, shame Ash G couldn't be bothered to do it himself.
He isn't a manager but an AUP investigator.
In his favour I'm sure he'll bring a wealth of experience and knowledge on security matters.
Bill Payer
29-10-2003, 23:28
Grow up. :rolleyes:
:smokin: So,I'm right.
Graham F
29-10-2003, 23:29
I have one thing to say about fraz's post here (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48393&page=3&pp=15)
WHO ARE YOU KIDDING :rolleyes:
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 23:29
:smokin: So,I'm right.
No, you are a troll.
Sorry, I don't feed trolls. ;)
OK can we keep the troll discussions for another time please....
He isn't a manager but an AUP investigator.
In his favour I'm sure he'll bring a wealth of experience and knowledge on security matters.
My bad :dunce:
Still freaky :erm:
Still freaky :erm:
Why, coz he's bald?? What's wrong with us slapheads then eh?? eh?? eh??
Bill Payer
29-10-2003, 23:43
Well,I've always found Fraz' posts to be entertaining.
No, you are a troll.
Sorry, I don't feed trolls. ;)
:devsmoke: Ah,"Troll". The cry of someone who doesn't like the way a discussion is going.
Didn't you state your interest in an admin position on .com,in the past?
I thought this particular site was not going to get into pathetic and petty gripes aimed at nthw.com? I'm a bit amazed that the moderators from here are actually not only condoning it but joining in.
do you think Frank knows?
incog.
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 23:48
Well,I've always found Fraz' posts to be entertaining.
:devsmoke: Ah,"Troll". The cry of someone who doesn't like the way a discussion is going.
Didn't you state your interest in an admin position on .com,in the past?
Yes, I had stated my interest.
I also stated my interest again after that via a private communication with Frank.
I have no problem with not being offered a post at all, my problem is with Fraz holding any such position at nthw.com
I have my own opinions of Fraz and I'm sorry to say it will be a long cold day in hell before anyone convinces me otherwise.
Having said that, I did mention it was not my only reason for leaving and I believe I also mentioned I was going to leave some time ago, but Neil talked me out of it.
FYI, I didn't offer to mod here when the possition was available because I had very little time on the net then, but if ever a mod position becomes available, I will be offering my services here. If someone else gets the position, I won't have a problem with it, as I didn;t have a problem with Richard M getting the position on .com nor did I have a problem with Mike being re-instated.
Hope that clears it up for you ;)
I thought this particular site was not going to get into pathetic and petty gripes aimed at nthw.com? I'm a bit amazed that the moderators from here are actually not only condoning it but joining in.
The gripe isn't with .com - I've always said it's the site to go to for help for NTL customers. The issue is with who NTL have chosen as an administrator.
The gripe isn't with .com - I've always said it's the site to go to for help for NTL customers. The issue is with who NTL have chosen as an administrator.
So not completely unlike the historical slating of moderators on nthw.com by members of another .co.uk "protest" site then?
So not completely unlike the historical slating of moderators on nthw.com by members of another .co.uk "protest" site then?
Those moderators had a tendancy to be 'slated' for their actions as mods. I'm referring to the way he has acted in the past and the steps that the site had to go to to prevent him from repeating such behaviour. I can't understand how someone with such a history could be chosen to join the team he once so enjoyed causing problems for.
Stuart W
29-10-2003, 23:56
So not completely unlike the historical slating of moderators on nthw.com by members of another .co.uk "protest" site then?
On the contrary, I'd say it is TOTALY different.
Scenario A:
A forum posts a whole barage of insults against another forums mod, devotes entire sections to the putting down of the same mod, even went as far as changing the way that mod's name appears in posts.
Scenario B:
A forum posts an opinion of the position held by a mod from another forum and discusses it like adults (most of the time).
Look pretty different to me.
On the contrary, I'd say it is TOTALY different.
Scenario B:
A forum posts an opinion of the position held by a mod from another forum and discusses it like adults (most of the time).
No, members of a forum are posting negative comments about a member of another forum. It's quite plain, quite simple, and actually quite sad.
No, members of a forum are posting negative comments about a member of another forum. It's quite plain, quite simple, and actually quite sad.
What I am doing is posting my concerns about him being on the team, given his previous history. Some people have had dealings with him in the past and are giving their opinions. The moment this thread gets offensive and insulting (or if posts get reported) I'll act.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:09
No, members of a forum are posting negative comments about a member of another forum. It's quite plain, quite simple, and actually quite sad.
How would we ever hold any discussion without negative comments?
As a former member of nthw.com I have an opinion on the enlisting of Fraz as a mod. I have posted over there to express my opinion and have posted over here too.
As Russ says, it is a questionable move to give Fraz this position.
Now, honestly, if they had given Peterska2 the Admin position and people complained about it here, would you have made the same comments?
How would we ever hold any discussion without negative comments?
I'm sorry, in your world do all discussions involve negativity?
As a former member of nthw.com I have an opinion on the enlisting of Fraz as a mod. I have posted over there to express my opinion and have posted over here too.
Have you got a link to your post on NTHW.com expressing your opinion?
As Russ says, it is a questionable move to give Fraz this position.
Yes, amply proved by him dragging up personal history, enough to try and prove he's the bad guy but enough to not let everyone know the full facts.
Now, honestly, if they had given Peterska2 the Admin position and people complained about it here, would you have made the same comments?
Of course I would, if you've nothing better to do than concern yourself and moan about who got made a moderator on NTHW over and above you then I feel a bit sorry for you.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:20
I'm sorry, in your world do all discussions involve negativity?
Well, in a way, yes. Someone will allways have a differing opinion and as such could be described as 'negative'.
However, I do not feel it necesary to be negative in all discussions.
Have you got a link to your post on NTHW.com expressing your opinion?
Take a look at the "Welcome Fraz" thread, it's about the 3rd post down I think. I explain that I am no longer posting there.
Of course I would, if you've nothing better to do than concern yourself and moan about who got made a moderator on NTHW over and above you then I feel a bit sorry for you.
Thanx for your sympathy, but arn't you in the same boat?
With nothing better to do than concern yourself with others posts?
... and as a christian, one might assume Russ would have "forgiven his sins" and not base what Fraz might add to nthw on any previous activities.
What's going on?why have we got a big argument going on here.Have you got an agenda Bifta?Have you got an agenda Stuart?
If so let us all know. otherwise please take the argument somewhere else in the meantime.I'm sick of my inbox being filled by squabbling crap. :nono:
Then can we get back to trying to make this site as good as .com used to be.
Incog. :)
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:27
No agenda from me incog, just trying to clear up my point of view, which I feel is quite clear now ;)
Well, in a way, yes. Someone will allways have a differing opinion and as such could be described as 'negative'.
However, I do not feel it necesary to be negative in all discussions.
Take a look at the "Welcome Fraz" thread, it's about the 3rd post down I think. I explain that I am no longer posting there.
Thanx for your sympathy, but arn't you in the same boat?
With nothing better to do than concern yourself with others posts?
Sorry, but I've had "discussions" that don't involve any party being negative, perhaps you're confusing it with "debate".
And that wasn't exactly an opinion, just a post saying "I'm leaving" (you could have left without making a public show of it btw).
And as for concerning myself with other people's posts, isn't that how a forum works? I think the difference is that I see no reason to slate Fraz, and pretty much all I've seen so far on this topic is a lot of rhetoric and nay saying and absolutely nothing backing it up.
Could you just not accept that he might actually do some good? I'm sure an adult would at least be willing to entertain the idea instead of throwing their toy's out of the pram and resigning their membership .. and it was you that inferred you were an adult ... remember?
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:34
Well, I remember when a mod was part of the community and as such was 'voted in' to some extent by the members of that community.
I also remember seeing the position of Moderator being available to all to apply for.
I don't however remember seeing any of this for Fraz's position. I find this odd, esp. given Fraz's nature of posting over the past year or so.
I don't intend to start listing quotes from posts made by Fraz to back up anything I have said, but please feel free to trawl nthellworld.com and ntlhell.co.uk and look for posts made by Fraz which are more than 6mths old.
Having said that, I do accept that he may do some good. In fact, I feel it is inevitable that he does 'some' good. I'm just concerned about the way he got the position given his history, thass all.
Well, I remember when a mod was part of the community and as such was 'voted in' to some extent by the members of that community.
I also remember seeing the position of Moderator being available to all to apply for.
I don't however remember seeing any of this for Fraz's position. I find this odd, esp. given Fraz's nature of posting over the past year or so.
I don't intend to start listing quotes from posts made by Fraz to back up anything I have said, but please feel free to trawl nthellworld.com and ntlhell.co.uk and look for posts made by Fraz which are more than 6mths old.
Having said that, I do accept that he may do some good. In fact, I feel it is inevitable that he does 'some' good. I'm just concerned about the way he got the position given his history, thass all.
So correct me if I'm wrong, your beef is with NTL appointing someone as a moderator and not with the actual choice of person? So if for example it had been say .. Russ or ... you, or someone you really got on well with, you'd have still given up posting on NTHW.com?
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:41
So correct me if I'm wrong, your beef is with NTL appointing someone as a moderator and not with the actual choice of person? So if for example it had been say .. Russ or ... you, or someone you really got on well with, you'd have still given up posting on NTHW.com?
My beef is with Fraz being apointed in that way.
If there had been a thread making the position available and Fraz posted an interest, I would have taken that oppertunitie to post my feelings.
If someone I 'like' had got the position in the same way Fraz did, no I would not stop posting there, but I would question the method with which they were appointed.
I have left because BOTH reasons combined, Fraz being appointed AND the way it was done.
[Edit] Sorry, missed this...
If I had been goffered the possition, I would have asked Neil to make the post publicly available first, as I'm sure lots of people would be starting similar threads to this one about me!
My beef is with Fraz being apointed in that way.
If there had been a thread making the position available and Fraz posted an interest, I would have taken that oppertunitie to post my feelings.
If someone I 'like' had got the position in the same way Fraz did, no I would not stop posting there, but I would question the method with which they were appointed.
I have left because BOTH reasons combined, Fraz being appointed AND the way it was done.
[Edit] Sorry, missed this...
If I had been goffered the possition, I would have asked Neil to make the post publicly available first, as I'm sure lots of people would be starting similar threads to this one about me!
This one amuses me somewhat, you've said that it's inevitable that he does some good (obviously in his new position as admin) yet, because of your personal feelings towards him you decided to give up posting on nthw. I doubt "sorely missed" is a phrase I could apply in this instance.
Anyhow, work tomorrow, must sleep .. enjoy.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 00:50
IMPO, I don't think many people will miss me and indeed some will be glad to see the back of me.
Sleep well :wavey:
Yes, amply proved by him dragging up personal history, enough to try and prove he's the bad guy but enough to not let everyone know the full facts.
A lot of things simply cannot be linked to: the team emails I sent and recieved regarding Fraz (in fact ALL the emails that came in to my team inbox) are saved somewhere on my HD, because of the assurances I gave the team when I left that I wouldn't reveal any confidential emails, I'm not going to put them on here. But for the sceptics, I suggest you ask the .com admin team to confirm without going in to detail whether or not Fraz has caused them problem in the past that saw them going to the head of the AUP to complain.
... and as a christian, one might assume Russ would have "forgiven his sins" and not base what Fraz might add to nthw on any previous activities.
Don't try and tell me how to be a Christian.
I've already said that Fraz will be able to bring his knowledge of security matters to the admin position. As one of many people who have experienced how 'mischeivous' (sorry to use that word again) he can be, it would be like, on a lesser scale, asking CJ to return as Admin. You can't reaaly compare the two situations but if you think of it in terms of the preblems they have caused, it makes you wonder how such a person managed to be taken on by.com, unless the 'powers that be' decided a company man needs to be on the team.
I wish someone would write a book about everything CJ, Fraz, KA, et al did, I'm sure it would make a riveting read!
(ok, I'd settle for someone just giving me a breif overview)
perhaps anything of a personal nature that can't be proved either because there is no proof or there are promises not to use said proof that does exist should be avoided all together.it's very confusing to those of us who are out of the 'loop' so to speak.however if fraz is likely to be a problem in my ever needing to seek help on TOS i would like to know.
incog. :)
timewarrior2001
30-10-2003, 08:54
Fraz is an NTL employee, he seems reasonably fair and not afraid to critiscise where he feels it necessary.
I've crossed swords with him on a few points, never once saw any attitude form him.
Maybe he has caused problems, but were these problems because he wouldnt back down from his point of view or was he doing detrimental things to the site that affected other users, or maybe the mods at the time couldnt control him (which isnt fraz being the problem).
I think with his area of expertise then he is an invaluable memeber of the team. However it is my oppinion that .com has gone right down the ****ter and fraz wont be an admin there for long because the site is doomed.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 08:58
after a good nights sleep on thigs.....
I am glad I have left .com, I have no regrets.
Fraz was appointed as Admin of .com without any discussion with members or the existing moderating team.
At lease one existing admin has e-mailed AshG to reflect his disstaste at such a move which AFAIK has not been answered yet.
I get the feeling that AshG has just gone to prove to us that ntl are well into not listening to it's customers and just going ahead with whatever it likes.
I don;t think making Fraz an admin will close nthw.com overnight, but I'm giving the site no more than 6 months. If it does stay longer, it will be run by AshG and his puppets, rather than anyone who actually gives a toss about customers.
Been a while since I used this login but I thought I'ld just pop up and say hello :smokin:
A most illuminating thread I must say :)
/me awaits reactions to fraz's presence with morbid interest
Richard M
30-10-2003, 09:33
I wish someone would write a book about everything CJ, Fraz, KA, et al did, I'm sure it would make a riveting read!
(ok, I'd settle for someone just giving me a breif overview)
I don't think a brief overview would be possible...there's so much history on .com and .co.uk :D
We actually just banned KA again, last week.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 09:39
Been a while since I used this login but I thought I'ld just pop up and say hello :smokin:
A most illuminating thread I must say :)
See?
You can't realy get much more ntl than that!
A discussion abotu Fraz, questioning the method by which he was appointed, he comes along to post and says NOTHING.
Oh how VERY ntl.....
timewarrior2001
30-10-2003, 09:43
See?
You can't realy get much more ntl than that!
A discussion abotu Fraz, questioning the method by which he was appointed, he comes along to post and says NOTHING.
Oh how VERY ntl.....But on the other hand, he isnt rising to any of the critiscism he has received here. He simply let it be known he is aware of peoples thoughts.
He hasnt stirred up any trouble, just a friendly hi.
I just spent a while reading through the .com threa don this subject and Fraz gets a fair amount of stick and he has been nothing but polite.
I am alarmed that people here are dragging up the past especially when it does not relate to this site.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 09:47
Agreed.
But then I have allways found the peeps at tech support to be very polite, but they still DON'T LISTEN to what I say and tell me to reboot my modem and PC inthe hope I will hang up.
I also find the people who knock on my door and try to convince me to change my phone / electric / gas provider are polite too.
However, surely it would be beneficial to get involved in the discussion and maybee defend himself as to how he got the position instead of treading the saftey of "polite".
timewarrior2001
30-10-2003, 09:58
Agreed.
But then I have allways found the peeps at tech support to be very polite, but they still DON'T LISTEN to what I say and tell me to reboot my modem and PC inthe hope I will hang up.
I also find the people who knock on my door and try to convince me to change my phone / electric / gas provider are polite too.
However, surely it would be beneficial to get involved in the discussion and maybee defend himself as to how he got the position instead of treading the saftey of "polite".
Fair comment, perhaps though Fraz is as bemused as the rest of us about this appointment :)
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 10:01
Bemused, yes.
But I'd wager he knows who gave him the position, but he refuses to let on, just resorting to the usual waffle skate-around-everything type answers.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 10:10
after a good nights sleep on thigs.....
<SNIP!>
At lease one existing admin has e-mailed AshG to reflect his disstaste at such a move which AFAIK has not been answered yet.
<SNIP!>
My friend has just phoned me, and told me off :nono: He is not an admin at .com, he just works for ntl, my mistake. He still hasn't recieved any answer from AshG though.... neither have I for that matter, but I guess no-one will get any kind of answer, after all, this is ntl we are dealing with.
Now, not too long ago AshG 'deleted' a thread and got more than a little repercussion... This should have tought him th think a little before acting, but no. Not AshG.
So now he has appointed Fraz, who is an ntl employee and has (in the past) caused grief for the mods WITHOUT any kind of information exchange with existing Admins, let alone the members
I think I know what to get AshG for Christmass...
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2003/10/1.jpg
Lord Nikon
30-10-2003, 10:24
And for the next twists in events...
Miss marple arrives and reveals AshG to be CJ in disguise, and CJ turns out to be Osama Bed Linen in disguise....
Andre turns out to be Bryan Stevens and is appointed in charge of .com in a surprise move.
and before anyone rules it out as impossible... just look at the actions of the past few weeks.....
ian@huth
30-10-2003, 10:57
To me it seems that this whole affair has been blown out of all proportion. The only questions that need answering are:
1. Can Fraz moderate impartially?
2. Errrrrr, is there a 2?
paulyoung666
30-10-2003, 11:01
i know this has been said before but isnt the normal route to be a mod then admin , has fraz any experience of admin / modding a site like .com , just curious that is all , well , i for one wont stop posting over there , it could get interesting , i wonder if it might end up in another craig j scenario :rolleyes:
dieselking
30-10-2003, 11:19
Well, this forum has just lost a member, ME!!!
I have been thinking about going all week but after reading all the **** written in this thread, it has given me the final push into going.
I will miss some of u & will still chat to my mates on MSN but I just want to be away from the crap which seems to keep happening here
So bye bye u lot, have a nice life
Lord Nikon
30-10-2003, 11:45
Well dieselking, that makes sense.... but there is a more important issue here
Why do we give a rat's @$$ about what happens on .com?
How does Fraz's appointment on .com affect THIS site?
read the posts on the thread on .com by Cereal Killer, I feel they sum the situation up perfectly...
it would appear that fraz is actually a mod not an admin according to the latest postings.he is on trial for a month.
however will what has happened in the past really affect his ability to help ntl customers?
incog :)
Ok, read right through to now .....
1. This is an open forum ... we can discuss anything ..... this site was born out of .Com .... why can't we discuss what is going on ????
2. There are 3 NTLHell type site, all discuss each other, I don't see any animosity between the sites any more .... so what's the problem.
3. Who is appointed as an Admin has NO direct affect on this site ... bar increasing the numbers. :D
4. Fraz obviosly has a history, don't know what it is ... and really I don't care. He's welcome here as far as I know ...?
5. People leaving here purely on the basis of discussion about Fraz is a bit ... erm ridiculous, how can you get your point across ?
6. I haven't seen anything here that actually slanders etc Fraz, just some members questioning the way in which he became Admin, and more to the point about the possible future of .com.
7. Why is it that we can't discuss an issue without people deciding to take drastic action. Everyone has an opinion, it would seem that others just don't want to hear it ... shame really.
hmm.. just an observation.. i'm not passing judgement
I/we have been fully aware of Mike's potential/eventual involvement with the site
yet:
Who appointed Fraz ??
I honestly don't know
paulyoung666
30-10-2003, 12:11
Well, this forum has just lost a member, ME!!!
I have been thinking about going all week but after reading all the **** written in this thread, it has given me the final push into going.
I will miss some of u & will still chat to my mates on MSN but I just want to be away from the crap which seems to keep happening here
So bye bye u lot, have a nice life
in your opinion , but i dont see why you feel the need to stop posting here just because of this thread :rolleyes:
Neil has agreed on .com that Fraz has a chequered past with regards to his behaviour on .com.
Personally I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him and he knows exactly why (others do too) and if I could be sure I'm not going to get in to any legal trouble I'll post more information.
The question is not whether he can be a good mod (actually I doubt he'd have the chance to get up to any of his old tricks, Neil, Mick and Ben are reliable enough to ensure he doesn't play about again) but whether or not he can be trusted with such a position of authority.
Bill Payer
30-10-2003, 17:36
So,Fraz has been appointed as a Mod/Admin by a person whose name has not been revealed.The site is and has been for some time owned by NTL.Who gave Fraz the post is of nobody's concern but Fraz.
Presumably,they knew of Fraz' history on .com.So he caused a little bit of "trouble" for the .com team.In that case,he is ideal for the job as he'll know what he's let himself in for.
Fraz has also stated that he's been a customer for longer than he's worked for NTL.He also used to stir things up on the newsgroups but that didn't prevent him from being employed by NTL.
He also likes to play the Devil's Advocate. I should think that being able to see both sides of an argument is a useful quality for a moderator.
To be honest,I thought Neil & Co would have walked when Frank was pushed.I admire them for deciding to stick it out & continue what Frank started.Given the chance,I'm sure Fraz will prove to be a valuable member of the team.
Who gave Fraz the post is of nobody's concern but Fraz.
I would dispute that. It's OUR concern as WE are the ones who made the site what it is. I don't expect to know EVERYTHING the whole arrangement but you can understand some people who want to know the basics.
So he caused a little bit of "trouble" for the .com team.In that case,he is ideal for the job as he'll know what he's let himself in for
More than a "little bit"
He also likes to play the Devil's Advocate
Hmmm
To be honest,I thought Neil & Co would have walked when Frank was pushed.I admire them for deciding to stick it out & continue what Frank started
Well said that man.
Given the chance,I'm sure Fraz will prove to be a valuable member of the team
That may well happen.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 17:53
So,Fraz has been appointed as a Mod/Admin by a person whose name has not been revealed.The site is and has been for some time owned by NTL.Who gave Fraz the post is of nobody's concern but Fraz.
Presumably,they knew of Fraz' history on .com.So he caused a little bit of "trouble" for the .com team.In that case,he is ideal for the job as he'll know what he's let himself in for.
Fraz has also stated that he's been a customer for longer than he's worked for NTL.He also used to stir things up on the newsgroups but that didn't prevent him from being employed by NTL.
He also likes to play the Devil's Advocate. I should think that being able to see both sides of an argument is a useful quality for a moderator.
To be honest,I thought Neil & Co would have walked when Frank was pushed.I admire them for deciding to stick it out & continue what Frank started.Given the chance,I'm sure Fraz will prove to be a valuable member of the team.
BillPayer, may I congratulate you on a sensible well phrased post.
Though I have strong views about Fraz (strong enough to stop me posting there) I must agree with what you have said.
I do honestly hope that Fraz does not abuse his position and that .com tries to get the pre-buyout 'feeling' back. If ever that 'feeling' does return, I will be back there like a shot.
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 18:29
Been a while since I used this login but I thought I'ld just pop up and say hello :smokin:
A most illuminating thread I must say :)
Hi Fraz,
I've been watching the thread on .com and you have avoided answering a simple question, I'll give it to you straight with YES / NO options, should you wish to reply.
1, Did Neil, Mick or Ben aproach you RE: the position before you took the position? YES/NO
2, Did AshG aproach you RE: the position before you took the position? YES/NO
Simple enough mate.
Hi Fraz,
I've been watching the thread on .com and you have avoided answering a simple question, I'll give it to you straight with YES / NO options, should you wish to reply.
1, Did Neil, Mick or Ben aproach you RE: the position before you took the position? YES/NO
2, Did AshG aproach you RE: the position before you took the position? YES/NO
Simple enough mate.
As you've addressed the post directly to me I'll pop back out from the shadows :)
As I've recently stated at .com , I've not been asked/told not too say anything, It's a decision that I've made to respect, what I consider, certain confidences.
Now if people have problems with me being able to respect confidences then .................................................. ...........
Stuart W
30-10-2003, 18:52
As you've addressed the post directly to me I'll pop back out from the shadows :)
As I've recently stated at .com , I've not been asked/told not too say anything, It's a decision that I've made to respect, what I consider, certain confidences.
Now if people have problems with me being able to respect confidences then .................................................. ...........
Thanx for the responce Fraz.
I truly hope that you are not playing the confidence card, I realy truly do.
Oh dear, not all this in this forum as well :zzz:
Oh dear, not all this in this forum as well :zzz:
Yer, let's leve them to it :( :zzz:
Florence
30-10-2003, 20:19
When I was on the team he caused so many problem for us that we had to report him to his superior at NTL. Apparently I'm not permitted to go in to the details of what he did but he was considered a thorn in the side of the team for a long time, this was even noted by some at Hook. Funny how he seems to have changed now...
Has he changed who can tell .. When the truth is known it could be to late teh damage could be done. I have my worries and hope I am wrong :shrug:
ian@huth
30-10-2003, 21:07
Has he changed who can tell .. When the truth is known it could be to late teh damage could be done. I have my worries and hope I am wrong :shrug:
What damage? I think everyone is getting too paranoid over this issue.
What damage? I think everyone is getting too paranoid over this issue.
In my opinion. (as allways) I spent alot of time on .com. My post total was 1,337 but have not posted properly for ages. TBH, once it "changed" I lost intrest. The quaility of posts went down like the Titanic. I think others will agree. From what I can remember of .com Fraz helped out as and when he could. Obviously, if others have a more indepth opinion then fair enough. I dont work for NTL so cant comment further than my opinion.
One thing I will say in defence of .com. .co.uk doesn't seem to "go" as quickly as .com used to. On the other hand I haven't spent as much time on .co.uk as I did on .com. Due to my current job.
The other point I'll make is that I thought that at NO time what so ever should people make personal diggs, direct points towards one another.
I not saying for one min that I have never been guilty of the above but in this case...........
get real peeps...... Who HONESTLY gives a toss who is a mod/admin/editor on .com? I dont care who shops in the shop next door to where I shop. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
hate to say it guys but if i was someone who was looking round the forum with a view to join to get help with my ntl, after reading this thread i don't think i would bother :erm:
we've already has some members saying they can't be bothered with it all.......
hate to say it guys but if i was someone who was looking round the forum with a view to join to get help with my ntl, after reading this thread i don't think i would bother :erm:
we've already has some members saying they can't be bothered with it all.......
Well said.............. maybe a thread closed Situation?
Well said.............. maybe a thread closed Situation?
ta
If the original poster requests a closure then I'll lock it down.
If the original poster requests a closure then I'll lock it down.
which one? :dunce: weren't there two? since it was merged?
The name at the start :)
ok sorry was a dumb question :dunce:
p.s. he's going away though
Graham F
30-10-2003, 22:23
The name at the start :)
I take it that will be me then :angel:
If one of the mods/admins could close the thread please as i feel it has run it course and is now going round in circles!!
Thanks
Scooby :smokin:
I take it that will be me then :angel:
If one of the mods/admins could close the thread please as i feel it has run it course and is now going round in circles!!
Thanks
Scooby :smokin:
"Darn those pesky kids!!!"
:D
I take it that will be me then :angel:
If one of the mods/admins could close the thread please as i feel it has run it course and is now going round in circles!!
Thanks
Scooby :smokin:
As requested.
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