View Full Version : [Merged] Public breast feeding
To prevent the 'Old Wives' Tales' thread veering any further off topic, here's a new thread on breast feeding. We're in to this again at the moment with Jr Towny number 2 being just three months old.
Some of the issues I'm interested in hearing people's views on:
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
How old is too old?
dilli-theclaw
15-09-2005, 12:06
Breastfeeding in public IS acceptable to me.
I didn't know about that law, I'm not sure what to make of it yet - i'll get back to you on that.
I've never stopped to think about how old is too old for breastfeeding. Wouldn't a woman's body stop producing the milk when it's time to stop it?
Is 2 years not a little old to still be breast feeding, and that is not a criticism it is a genuine question :)
The interesting thing is that in many parts of the world, nobody would even think to ask the question. Breastfeeding has become culturally out of favour in Britain and even though it's making a bit of a comeback, toleration of it is only skin deep among some people. I think that's what's behind the old wives tales I posted. Start off breastfeeding by all means, but first chance you get, jump ship...
Two years isn't too old, to answer your genuine question, :) because if you manage it properly by that age they are only getting one breast feed per day, at bedtime. Mrs T fed Jr T number one until 18 months IIRC, and stopped because he was rather large for his age (still is), and he was just too big to get on her knee in the right postion. She was also a little concerned about stopping him feeding before he was fluent enough to ask for it in public, but I think that comes back to the cultural issue again.
Breast milk contains all the nutrients a growing child needs, in the right amounts, plus it contains antibodies which are very important for babies and young children, whose own immune systems are relatively weak.
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
Yes. After all, while we do consider the breast as a sexual object, it is basically there to feed the baby, so breastfeeding is as acceptable to me as anyone who eats or drinks in public.
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
A good thing IMO. Many places require that the baby be fed somewhere private. This is not a bad thing, but in many places the only "private" place available is a toilet. This is bad.
How old is too old?
Dunno, but if the child is still breastfeeding when they get into their teens, there's a problem.. :D
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
Yup, doesn't bother me
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
I think that's wrong, and too overbearing of the government. People have a right to be offended by it, and the owner should have the right to eject anyone who is publicly breastfeeding if they are causing offence to other customers. It should be the cafe owner's descision, not the government.
How old is too old?
Haven't the foggiest. Do you mean visually offensive-wise, or when you should start weening the baby? No idea on the latter; on the former, can't see how it makes a great deal of difference.
SMHarman
15-09-2005, 12:08
I've never stopped to think about how old is too old for breastfeeding. Wouldn't a woman's body stop producing the milk when it's time to stop it?No as long as it is still being used, then it is still produced.
Can I add an aside to this thread, as those posting in it are likely to be from the same demographic who would want to comment.
"Pacifiers / binkys / dummies" how old is too old. We made our son go cold turkey on them at just over 12 months when it got to the point that he would loose them in his cot at night and wake up screaming until one of us went and found one. After about 3 nights that were even worse, he started sleeping through the night without one. When I see 3+ year olds with them I just wonder why.
dilli-theclaw
15-09-2005, 12:09
No as long as it is still being used, then it is still produced. See you really do learn something every day - thanks for that :)
orangebird
15-09-2005, 12:13
<snip>
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
Absolutely
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
Don't agree with it. Should be up to the owner what activities (legal of course) they allow on their own premises.
How old is too old?
Not sure. I wouldn't have though much past 18 months - 2 years old really.
I saw a programme once about breastfeeding - the newsreader Pamela Armstrong was still breastfeeding her son when he was FIVE YEARS OLD. Odd and a little bit freaky IMO. :erm:
As a militant breastfeeder myself, anything which helps mothers to breastfeed should be encouraged.
The main reason I have found that new mums don't breastfeed is down to embarassment and they say convenience ( :shrug: I never understood that last reason).
Those that do manage for a while often give up because of the night feed but they will say they are not producing enough milk (sometimes because they are not patient enough over feeding).
My two were very different feeders. My daughter was a very efficient feeder whereas my son was lazy.
It is the best way in the world to lose weight as well.
I have a friend who can clearly remember still being breastfed at the age of 5 (ewww). Personally I would say for as long as the child and you are happy up to about 24 months to a maximum of 30 months.
I hope Salu will correct me on this one but as my grandmother had 11 children (including a couple of miscarriages) and breastfed all of them she never suffered with a prolapsed womb, a problem that seems more common these days with women who have large families, I wonder if the lack of breastfeeding contributes to this problem.
In addition to what I said last time this came up... http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/showpost.php?p=211907&postcount=51Breast feeding in public is no problem, there are many ways of making it discreet even if in a busy area. I think Mum's should have the freedom to be proud of their maternal instincts.The age thing is interesting, personally I think the parents should decide for themselves but with the childs development as the primary focus.
A child needs to have a strong bond with it's mother and the health benefits alone encourage a lengthy period of breastfeeding.
However, if it goes on too long, I think it turns from bonding to dependancy, which I think is actually harmful to the childs psychological growth and well being.
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 12:19
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
Entirely. It's actually a very natural and atractive sight.
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
The law shouldn't be necessary, but if people are going to be ignorant then they obviously need something to guide them.
How old is too old?
Once a baby is weaned, they shouldn't need any further breast milk - that's why you wean a baby. So I guess that puts it anywhere between 6 and 9 months? (Assuming said baby has moved on from the breast for comfort feeding!)
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
How old is too old?
To answer those questions
1) Yes I have no problems at all with it and most ladies become so skilled at it that most of the time it just looks like they are cuddling there baby
2) Damn good law if you ask me if some one is offended let them go eat else were!
3) How long is a piece of string? I do not think there is a right and wrong answer to this. I think it is just the way that society is at the moment that a lot of people that find breast feeding a baby acceptable would feel uncomfortable seeing a women breast feed a toddler. My own opinion on it? I think that it is lovely that Mrs T could feed Junior T just before he went to bed as it made it a special time at the end of the day just before he settled down for the night.
I do not see the need for woman to breast feed there toddlers during the day as by that stage they do not need to be breast feed all the time as they should be on a varied and healthy diet and get all they need that way.
Can I just add that I do admire Mrs T for being a dedicated and long term breast feeder :tu:
I think that breastfeeding in public is perfectly acceptable, my wife wanted to breastfeed our son (now 31/2 months old), but he didn't take to it :( however we had discussed the whole "public feeding" issue.
A friend of ours was breastfeeding quite happily in public, and to be honest, I fail to see how someone would be offended, it is not a case of whipping out your breasts and flashing them to the world, most breastfeeding mothers (and I know a number of them, including one who wa at our table for a wedding, who was quite happily breastfeeding during the reception withour a single eyebrow being raised) will tell you that they are discreet - it is unlikely you would know without really looking that a mother was feeding her child.
as to how old is too old - it is a case of when the child does not want it any more.
In some countries (especially in the poorer countries where formula and food in general is not so easy to come by) children are routinely breastfed until they are 5 or 6 years old.
Unicef report that around 50% of 18-24 month old children are still being breastfed (as a world average).
My only issue with the current focus on breastfeeding is that there are some people who cannot breastfeed for various reasons - some children do not take to it, some mothers do nor produce suffecient milk, and so on- and these mothers can sometimes feel that they are failing as mothers, as some midwives imply (rather than say outright) that they are bad mothers because they are not giving their child the best food available.
SMHarman
15-09-2005, 12:29
How old is too old?Interesting point. We found with our son (who was bottle fed) that he lost interest in bottles at around 15 months (IIR) and started just playing with them the last one we gave him he pushed the teat out of (and into the bottle) covering himself with the contents, so we stopped after that and put it into sippy cups.
Further point, my morning born daugter still had a feed 1st thing at 20 months but my evening born son had his just before bed.
Daughter tripled her birthweight in 8 weeks (she was 5 weeks early).
I couldn't get on with a pump though (did manage for the one or two occasions we went out).
I couldn't get on with a pump though (did manage for the one or two occasions we went out).
We used one with the boy. Mrs suffered many blockages. Not using it this time (so far, but we've not wanted to go out to the cinema yet!), and no blockages. I suspect that pumps, when used in addition to a full breastfeeding routine, simply serve to mess up your milk flow.
"Pacifiers / binkys / dummies" how old is too old. We made our son go cold turkey on them at just over 12 months when it got to the point that he would loose them in his cot at night and wake up screaming until one of us went and found one. After about 3 nights that were even worse, he started sleeping through the night without one. When I see 3+ year olds with them I just wonder why.
From a purely dental health / development viewpoint - 4 years at the absolute latest. Any later and there is a distinct chance that the development and eruption of the adult incisors will be affected, leading to orthodontic treatment later.
However: a dummy is still far better than a thumb - it can after all be "lost" or "given to the dummy fairy for another little boy/girl" when the parent deems fit. A thumb is always there and produces a far worse malocclusion (mis-alignment of teeth) than a dummy ever will.
On breast feeding - it's natural, and the best nutrition for the child, so it should be first choice unless the mother has a problem with production. I certainly have no problem with it.
Most parents I know tend to stop breast feeding when the childs teeth erupt (6-15 months) as they tend to bite!
No probs with breast feeding in public!
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?Yes, completely.
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?Quite right too! Breastfeeding should be fine anywhere....
How old is too old?I personally think that breastfeeding past 2 y.o. is a bit wierd.......
To prevent the 'Old Wives' Tales' thread veering any further off topic, here's a new thread on breast feeding. We're in to this again at the moment with Jr Towny number 2 being just three months old.
Some of the issues I'm interested in hearing people's views on:
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
How old is too old?
In public yes, although some cover should be used by the female as there is far to many weirdo's and some people may not wish to view.
The cafe owner should appreciate this is how babies are fed personally I think the new law is a good one.
Chrysalis
15-09-2005, 13:52
I have no problem with it in theory but I dont know how I would react if a women very close to me was feeding with skin on show.
The closest I have witnessed it I think is at a bus stop where I was sitting in the shelter and the women was feeding her baby on the bench, I didnt even noticed until I was on the bus and looked out the window, I expect I am curious but I wouldn't be offended.
In addition to what I said last time this came up... <snip>
Well, seeing as that thread is 16 months old I think we can resist doing a merge ... :dozey: ;) :D
__________________
Don't agree with it. Should be up to the owner what activities (legal of course) they allow on their own premises.
Ordinarily I'd have some sympathy with that view, but this issue, like smoking, is a very important matter of public health. It's no co-incidence that this law has come in in Scotland, where the smoking ban is also set to come into force way ahead of the rest of the UK, and will be more complete (i.e. no smoking in any enclosed public space, including pubs that don't serve food).
Breastfeeding in Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK. I've been amazed and dismayed at the state of health education and habits since I moved back here. IMO it does come to a point where you have to use legislation to alter public behaviour and attitudes, for the greater long-term good of society as a whole.
I have heard all sorts of horror stories about mums being asked if they can't feed their baby in the toilet, and even in milder cases where a cafe owner asks someone to stop (usually, it has to be said, as a result of a complaint rather than their own preference for a nipple-free environment), I can't help wondering what's going through the mind of the person objecting. What is the child doing that is offensive? If they don't get their lunch in the cafe at the same time as mum, exactly where and when are they supposed to get fed? Bizarre.
I wasn't suggesting a merge... your thread is covering the subject a lot more broadly rather than specifically public feeding.
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
Yes, completely acceptable. It's completely natural & contains everything a growing baby needs.
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
Not sure, tbh. It's sad that there has to be a law, that breasts are so overly sexualised that it's unacceptable for a mother to feed her baby. I don't think it's going to stop people making comments to nursing mothers though.
How old is too old?
Again, I'm not sure. I had a friend whose sibling was still breastfeeding at 4/5. It was more than slightly unnerving to see them unclip the nursing bra & latch on wherever they happened to be.
Once a baby is weaned, they shouldn't need any further breast milk - that's why you wean a baby. So I guess that puts it anywhere between 6 and 9 months? (Assuming said baby has moved on from the breast for comfort feeding!)
Not quite. A source of liquid is still needed - for formula fed babies this is usually follow-on milk; for breastfed babies it's either water or breastmilk. Current guidelines say that cow's milk shouldn't be given until 12 months. From a book I have -
The suggested minimum is 600-720mls/ 20-24oz a day of infant formula or follow-on formula, up to one year of age. After this time a minimum of 350mls/ 12oz milk (breast, formula or cows' milk) is suggested.
The main reason I have found that new mums don't breastfeed is down to embarassment and they say convenience ( I never understood that last reason).
Convenience? Unclipping a nursing bra & helping your baby latch on, as opposed to sterilising bottles, boiling water, cooling it, making formula feeds, chilling them for later use, then re-heating when necessary?
Mindboggling!
My only issue with the current focus on breastfeeding is that there are some people who cannot breastfeed for various reasons - some children do not take to it, some mothers do nor produce suffecient milk, and so on- and these mothers can sometimes feel that they are failing as mothers, as some midwives imply (rather than say outright) that they are bad mothers because they are not giving their child the best food available.
Oh yes. I appreciate that breastfeeding is the best way to feed your child - but I couldn't, I was made to feel utterly useless by the midwives. My daughter (14 weeks) was breastfed for 2 days, ended up in hospital with jaundice, tube fed for another 2 days & I was left with Daisy the pump. After 2 weeks of successfully exclusively pumping, my milk dried up. My midwife made me feel like an utter failure because I'd had to bottle feed my daughter. I tried - which is why I'm probably so envious but supportive of nursing in public. I never got that chance.
In public yes, although some cover should be used by the female as there is far to many weirdo's and some people may not wish to view.
In my trips out, my experiences of relatives breastfeeding, my mother & baby groups etc - I have never seen a woman not use cover. It's not about whipping our breasts out so everyone can have a good look. The only time the nipple is exposed is during the latching-on, which doesn't take an excessive amount of time.
If some people don't wish to view, then they shouldn't bloody look. As someone said earlier, most of the time you'd notice nothing unusual - looks like a mother cuddling their baby. I just cannot get my head round the offensive part of it, at all.
homealone
15-09-2005, 14:08
I have no problem with women 'getting them out' in public - the only problem is when they keep covering them with a baby, and you can't see anything ;)
- seriously, what a strange world we live in, we are exposed to all sorts of images of female anatomy in day to day life - but as soon as that anatomy is used for the purpose intended, people get all sqeamish.
I'm not sure about the cafÃÃâ€*’© situation, as a compromise they could perhaps offer to provide a screen, in the event of a complaint, but it shouldn't really be necessary - and to clarify, the screen should be for the complainant, not the nursing mother ;)
orangebird
15-09-2005, 14:12
Well, seeing as that thread is 16 months old I think we can resist doing a merge ... :dozey: ;) :D
__________________
Ordinarily I'd have some sympathy with that view, but this issue, like smoking, is a very important matter of public health.
:erm: How does the personal choice of whether you breastfeed a baby in public or not affect public health?
It's no co-incidence that this law has come in in Scotland, where the smoking ban is also set to come into force way ahead of the rest of the UK, and will be more complete (i.e. no smoking in any enclosed public space, including pubs that don't serve food).
Breastfeeding in Scotland lags behind the rest of the UK. I've been amazed and dismayed at the state of health education and habits since I moved back here. IMO it does come to a point where you have to use legislation to alter public behaviour and attitudes, for the greater long-term good of society as a whole.
Sorry, but again whether you breast feed in public or not - how does that affect society as a whole??
Laws should not be put in place to change peoples attitudes. It's not illegal to be offended by public breatsfeeding, is it?
I have heard all sorts of horror stories about mums being asked if they can't feed their baby in the toilet, and even in milder cases where a cafe owner asks someone to stop (usually, it has to be said, as a result of a complaint rather than their own preference for a nipple-free environment), I can't help wondering what's going through the mind of the person objecting. What is the child doing that is offensive? If they don't get their lunch in the cafe at the same time as mum, exactly where and when are they supposed to get fed? Bizarre.
As I said before, I don't have an issue with mothers breastfeeding in public. I personally wouldn't do it if I was a mother....but good on those who do do it. My issue with the law is that the owners/those with a vested interest in the business don't have a choice of what happens on their own premises. :shrug: Which is fundamentally wrong.
Oh yes. I appreciate that breastfeeding is the best way to feed your child - but I couldn't, I was made to feel utterly useless by the midwives. My daughter (14 weeks) was breastfed for 2 days, ended up in hospital with jaundice, tube fed for another 2 days & I was left with Daisy the pump. After 2 weeks of successfully exclusively pumping, my milk dried up. My midwife made me feel like an utter failure because I'd had to bottle feed my daughter. I tried - which is why I'm probably so envious but supportive of nursing in public. I never got that chance.
It must have been absolutely gutting for you to want it so badly, and yet still not be able to. Sadly, while there are plenty of over-zealous breastfeeding proponents out there, there are still far too many health professionals (usually older midwives and HVs, and even some GPs sadly) who are not nearly zealous enough.
My sister had some problems very early on and the hospital took none of the steps you would expect, preferring to get my nephew straight onto a bottle instead.
When Jr T 2 was born in June, Mrs T was dismayed to watch three new mums in other beds nearby having 'trouble' breastfeeding (actually they appeared just to be very tired, and suffering some nipple pain, which are both understandable but in the vast majority of cases only short term and quite manageable). One of them 'cracked' and asked to try a bottle, which was produced, ready mixed and warmed, without argument. Of course, it looked so much easier that the other two women in the room had both caved in within 24 hours.
It was like watching an experienced pusher getting his customers hooked on heroin. None of the mums gave any thought to the cleaning, sterilising, mixing and heating they would have to do for themselves once they got home. All they could see was a way out of their tiredness and discomfort. The ward staff should of course have been helping them through it and to understand the long-term issues but no attempt was made.
I think its disgusting when somebody smokes in public near a lil baby thats trying to feed.
and i find it more offensive when the people moaning about the baby are talking with there mouth full.
(1) yes it is fine with me
(2) disagree with the law because a cafe has the right to stop you taking your own food in
(3) how long is a piece of string
:erm: How does the personal choice of whether you breastfeed a baby in public or not affect public health?
It's not that breastfeeding in a cafe is any healthier than breastfeeding at home, but babies, especially newborns, do have this habit of wanting fed every two or three hours. That makes it pretty much impossible to go out anywhere without giving at least one feed somewhere in town rather than back at home.
The fear of not being able to find somewhere to do it, or being challenged while feeding, is a disincentive to mums who want to breastfeed and therefore an incentive to switch to the bottle. The health benefits of real breast milk over formula are very well documented. It is desirable from both social and economic points of view that children are breastfed rather than formula fed, and therefore it's desirable that barriers to breastfeeding are removed.
It must have been absolutely gutting for you to want it so badly, and yet still not be able to. Sadly, while there are plenty of over-zealous breastfeeding proponents out there, there are still far too many health professionals (usually older midwives and HVs, and even some GPs sadly) who are not nearly zealous enough.
My sister had some problems very early on and the hospital took none of the steps you would expect, preferring to get my nephew straight onto a bottle instead.
When Jr T 2 was born in June, Mrs T was dismayed to watch three new mums in other beds nearby having 'trouble' breastfeeding (actually they appeared just to be very tired, and suffering some nipple pain, which are both understandable but in the vast majority of cases only short term and quite manageable). One of them 'cracked' and asked to try a bottle, which was produced, ready mixed and warmed, without argument. Of course, it looked so much easier that the other two women in the room had both caved in within 24 hours.
It was like watching an experienced pusher getting his customers hooked on heroin. None of the mums gave any thought to the cleaning, sterilising, mixing and heating they would have to do for themselves once they got home. All they could see was a way out of their tiredness and discomfort. The ward staff should of course have been helping them through it and to understand the long-term issues but no attempt was made.
Very sad state of affairs.
Even with a dedicated Breastfeeding Midwife (lovely lady helped me) this attitude is still prevelant today. Although IIRC at the local maternity hospital they have advised new mothers to be that formula will only be provided in emergencies, and that any bottles and formula required should be brought in with you.
As a militant breastfeeder myself, anything which helps mothers to breastfeed should be encouraged.
The main reason I have found that new mums don't breastfeed is down to embarassment and they say convenience ( :shrug: I never understood that last reason).
Those that do manage for a while often give up because of the night feed but they will say they are not producing enough milk (sometimes because they are not patient enough over feeding).
My two were very different feeders. My daughter was a very efficient feeder whereas my son was lazy.
It is the best way in the world to lose weight as well.
I have a friend who can clearly remember still being breastfed at the age of 5 (ewww). Personally I would say for as long as the child and you are happy up to about 24 months to a maximum of 30 months.
I hope Salu will correct me on this one but as my grandmother had 11 children (including a couple of miscarriages) and breastfed all of them she never suffered with a prolapsed womb, a problem that seems more common these days with women who have large families, I wonder if the lack of breastfeeding contributes to this problem.
Well ...there is said to be a degree of uterine descensus in most multiparous women. The more children they have the greater the strain on the ligaments. I wouldn't have thought that breastfeeding has any impact on prevention though but gynaecology isn't my specialty....
I agree that public breastfeeding should be allowed and indeed encouraged.
Maximum age.....? I agree with the dental comments above and other sentiments expressed here. I think the final decision rests with the mother. However the mother can get drawn into a "special bond" with the baby in the act of breast feeding. While this is healthy for the majority of mothers it can lead to a reluctance to wean.
Thanks to everyone for not mentioning "Little Britain" in this thread..... :Yikes:
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 16:31
seriously, what a strange world we live in, we are exposed to all sorts of images of female anatomy in day to day life - but as soon as that anatomy is used for the purpose intended, people get all sqeamish.
Very good point, well made.
Someone should ask the cafe owner if he also throws people out who open up tabloids?
Very good point, well made.
Someone should ask the cafe owner if he also throws people out who open up tabloids?
Do people object to the sight of a bare breast, a glimpse of a nipple, or the act of a baby sucking on a nippple (which I'm guessing they can't actually see as the baby's head would be in the way)?
It does puzzle me as to why people would find any of the above objectionable
orangebird
15-09-2005, 16:54
Do people object to the sight of a bare breast, a glimpse of a nipple, or the act of a baby sucking on a nippple (which I'm guessing they can't actually see as the baby's head would be in the way)?
It does puzzle me as to why people would find any of the above objectionable
Yes, some people do. I know it's natural etc, and it doesn't offend me in the slightest, but to some people it seems very alien to them and they become uncomfortable. It's no-ones 'fault' though. An 80 year old man fir example that has had no children. It would probably seem very alien to him. It seems a bit mean to say that people who aren't comfortable with it find it offensive or objectionable. They're just not used to it. :shrug:
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 17:12
It seems a bit mean to say that people who aren't comfortable with it find it offensive or objectionable. They're just not used to it. :shrug:
They must have a terrible time living in the modern world, where bare breasts are regularly paraded in newspapers and on TV.
I mean, if these are not enlightened people, then likely as not their daily paper will have it in too!
I remember my granny doing her 'oh how rude' kind of reaction to something like that on TV many years ago. Now I know she'd seen a thing or two in life, so I had to conclude that he reaction was prudish, rather than anything more.
Mostly it is a reaction to their own embarrasment at knowing that other people know that they're watching such stuff. (Try sitting in a room with a teenager, and then see what happens when some nudity appears on TV - watch them squirm... :))
And it must not be allowed that people get away with claiming that something is 'offensive' or 'objectionable' merely because they're uncomfortable with it. These terms should be reserved for things that really are offensive and objectionable.
Well ...there is said to be a degree of uterine descensus in most multiparous women. The more children they have the greater the strain on the ligaments. I wouldn't have thought that breastfeeding has any impact on prevention though but gynaecology isn't my specialty....
I agree that public breastfeeding should be allowed and indeed encouraged.
Maximum age.....? I agree with the dental comments above and other sentiments expressed here. I think the final decision rests with the mother. However the mother can get drawn into a "special bond" with the baby in the act of breast feeding. While this is healthy for the majority of mothers it can lead to a reluctance to wean.
Thanks to everyone for not mentioning "Little Britain" in this thread..... :Yikes:
The reason I promulgated this theory was because of the affect breastfeeding has on womb contraction (speeds things up no end).
Breast feeding in public is perfectly acceptable, my sister did it but would sit in out of the way area, once somebody complained and she told the were to stick it.
Breastfeeding should be allowed anywhere a baby need feeding.
To what age? well stop before they get teeth! Owww
As regards to dummies it winds me up to see 4 year old with them.
My sister kids stop using dummies by the time they were 4 months old.
to answer chris' originial question.... I think breast feeding in public IS acceptable, i think it is good for the baby, and i think it helps the mother/baby bond....
with regards to the age, i have just read an article in a womens mag about this, and the article says that when mother and baby feel it is right to stop then that's the best time to do it..... it can be a comfort thing for a baby as much as anything and i think it is important
Entirely. It's actually a very natural and atractive sight.
To YOU maybe!
I think its disgusting when somebody smokes in public near a lil baby thats trying to feed.
Why? Most places where breast feeding is done in public are either cafes / restaurants / starbucks / whatever else - which allmost allways have smoking sections. Why should someone have to stop smoking just because someone wants to feed their baby?
I am still undecided about the issue of feeding in public. OK - its natural etc, but do I really want to see a baby sucking on a breast while eating in a cafe?
Why? Most places where breast feeding is done in public are either cafes / restaurants / starbucks / whatever else - which allmost allways have smoking sections. Why should someone have to stop smoking just because someone wants to feed their baby?
I am still undecided about the issue of feeding in public. OK - its natural etc, but do I really want to see a baby sucking on a breast while eating in a cafe?
Dont eat in cafes then, the baby has as much right to food as you do
1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Depends on the mother and the circumstances..in Africa it is used as a form of contraception by some.
I loved breastfeeding my children.However it doesn't suit everyone.No one should be made to feel uncomfortable about whichever method they have chosen.Bottle or breast it's your choice and NO ONE has a right to interfere UNLESS the child is failing to thrive.
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 20:49
Bottle or breast it's your choice and NO ONE has a right to interfere UNLESS the child is failing to thrive.And even then, they'd better be sensitive about it - it is probably NOT the mother's fault.
Dont eat in cafes then, the baby has as much right to food as you do
Ever tried taking your own food into a cafe???
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 20:55
Ever tried taking your own food into a cafe???Until the cafe offers breast milk (from the breast), then it's hardly unreasonable.
Of course, if they did, I doubt the babies would get to try any of it. lol.
Ever tried taking your own food into a cafe???
Please read post #28
If I had some special dietary requirement, which left out most fast food/cafes, could I bring my own food in then?
Why should someone have to stop smoking just because someone wants to feed their baby?
I am a smoker and I would not dream of smoking in a cafe if there were babies or children in there be they eating,breast feeding or any thing else I would always go out side....but that is off topic I just wanted to mention it
ScaredWebWarrior
15-09-2005, 21:20
To YOU maybe!
Yeah - why isn't it? Look at mother and baby. Peace, happiness, contentment. Looks pretty good to me.
And it's beautiful to see how nature has cleverly arranged for these things to work out like that. There is no human achievement that comes even close to that level of perfection.
__________________
Why should someone have to stop smoking just because someone wants to feed their baby?
Fair question. I think mothers should avoid public places where smoking is rife.
But then we're in danger of getting into the public smoking debate...
I am still undecided about the issue of feeding in public. OK - its natural etc, but do I really want to see a baby sucking on a breast while eating in a cafe?
If you didn't see it, then there is no issue.
So, what would trouble you about catching a glance of a baby being fed? Because if you were looking at it, then presumably you were choosing to look.
Hi, just thought i'd add to this thread.
Breastfeeding in public is completely acceptable to me, why shouldn't babies be fed?? Seems silly that it is even an issue to me. There seems to be such a snobbish attitude towards breasts these days. I mean, they open the paper and see them but they turn their nose up at a baby getting fed?
And for those reasons i agree with the Scottish Law 100%.
I breastfed my son and it was soo hard to go anywhere to breastfeed in private without having to sit on a toilet seat. I would have done it in public but my son was fidgety and would've exposed me!!
Being a young mum i was highly commended for my determination to breastfeed and everyone should at least try it. I don't agree with people who automatically put their babies on formula without even trying to breastfeed.
I know a few people who breastfed kids til the age of 3 or 4, now to me that is just wrong, becasue the babies don't need those nutrients at that age, they should be eating proper food to get the right balance. But then i wouldn't judge anyone, after all its up to them what they do.
Someone can walk down the street with pink hair and metal bars through their faces and no-one bats and eyelid.
But a mother who is nuturing her child in the most possibly natural and healthy way is frowned upon.
People have such rubbish attitudes to think like that. I was in the supermarket tonight with my 2 year old, and he was having a tantrum, so i just ignored him and carried on with what i was doing, and the filthy looks i got from some ladies were unreal, looking at me as if i must be a bad parent cos he wanted to get his own way and i wasn't giving in.
People should just mind their own business- it's not hurting them.
Thats my 2p worth anyway :)
greencreeper
15-09-2005, 23:57
I'd be a bit embarrassed if, say, the woman at the table next to me in Starbucks suddenly flopped one of them out and started feeding her ankle biter. But I don't see why she shouldn't - I guess it's a natural thing :shrug: I recall stumbling on a woman breast feeding in a car in a back street in Wakefield. Not very safe at all. At least in public it's a bit more safe - people around.
As to the question about when to stop feeding... When I was young my mum left me to go into hospital with measles, if I recall correctly. For want of something to suck, I turned to the fingers on my right hand - middle finger and the one to the right of it. I still find myself even now, especially when tired, sucking on my fingers :blush: It's comforting.
I'd be a bit embarrassed if, say, the woman at the table next to me in Starbucks suddenly flopped one of them out and started feeding her ankle biter. But I don't see why she shouldn't - I guess it's a natural thing :shrug:
I think this highlights the issue prefectly (not having a dig gc ;) ) - there is a perception that to breastfeed means a mum "flopping one out", whereas in reality most if not all mums lift the bottom of their top up and "junior" latches on without anyone really seeing anything.
I am not saying that you are of this opinion gc, it is just that I speak to a number of my colleagues, and they say something similar, yet we were sat in a cafe last week over lunch and the lady on the table next to us was breastfeeding, yet they didn't even notice. (I only did because I happened to look up as cried, and saw the mum positioning him). and if someone had "flopped one out" they would have spotted it, some of these boys can spot a bit of exposed cleavage at 200 yards :Yikes:
ok ... do a google search for breastfeeding, click on the images tab, turn off the safe search option.
How many of those images are offensive, pornographic, etc
Breastfeeding is THE most natural way of feeding your child, I don't see many people complaining of suckling animals .....
Women don't just "get them out" for the hell of it, it's not a sexual thing, it's a necessary thing.
Some of you really need to get a grip.
Some of you really need to get a grip.
Not the best expression Simon! Or should I say "Not the breast expression"?
;)
orangebird
16-09-2005, 09:54
You can't judge someone just because they feel uncomfortable with something you don't. I think people are being a little unfair here.
To what age? well stop before they get teeth! Owww
A few people have mentioned this - the problem is that many babies will have some teeth well before they are six months old, and the WHO recommends exclusive breastfeeding until that age.
In fact, teeth should not be a problem. The baby may give mum an experimental bite, but it's fairly easy to educate them that this is a bad thing - when Jr T gave his mum a nip, she simply took him straight off the breast immediately, then after a few seconds put him back on. He soon learned that if he wanted the good stuff, he had to behave.
To prevent the 'Old Wives' Tales' thread veering any further off topic, here's a new thread on breast feeding. We're in to this again at the moment with Jr Towny number 2 being just three months old.
Some of the issues I'm interested in hearing people's views on:
Breastfeeding in public. Is it acceptable to you?
What do you make of the new law that has just come in in Scotland, that makes it illegal for a cafe owner (or anyone else) to prevent a baby being breastfed?
How old is too old?
There is nothing better than breast feeding IMHO, it's 100% natural and should not be looked upon as something terrible, people don't moan when they go on holiday and women are walking round without any tops on do they??
Hello, hello hello.....
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13467222,00.html
A mother has spoken of her disgust at being stopped by a police officer for breastfeeding in public.
Margaret Boyle-White said she was "made to feel like a criminal".
She had finished breastfeeding her 28-day-old daughter Niamh in Watton, Norfolk, when an officer told her he had received a complaint from a member of the public.
What's the fuss about? I cannot imagine why any women should not be allowed to feed her baby in public. Everyone else can eat in front of others so why not a baby? I understand that a breast can have sexual connotations but for heaven's sake this is the baby's food and nourisment source!! Further more the police should know that this is in no way "exposing oneself" or public nudity...
I despair sometimes......:mad:
In the interests of avoiding repetition, I'm going to merge this with the breastfeeding thread we had a few weeks ago.
I think a mountain has been made out of a molehill here - and the woman has completely overreacted.
The officer did NOT tell her to stop breasfeeding and had no powers to stop her anyway.
All he did was inform her that a complaint had been made and it might have been better off if she's done it inside, as is his job to do so in situations like this.
Saaf_laandon_mo
22-11-2005, 14:45
What if you were the cafe owner in Dundee, for example, and a group of young mums came in, occupied a couple of your tables and sat there breast feeding their nippers for an hour or so, during your busiest period.
Wouldnt you want to see the back of the law then, not because you think breaqst feeding is offensive, but because you have bills/rates to pay, your own kids to feed.
philip.j.fry
22-11-2005, 14:52
All he did was inform her that a complaint had been made and it might have been better off if she's done it inside, as is his job to do so in situations like this.
I disagree, this was not a law enforcement issue as the woman had the right to breastfeed in public. The officers job should have been to tell the complainant that their complaint was not a matter for the police and to take the matter up with the mother directly or campaign through an elected official for a change in the law. Relaying the complaint whilst acting in an official capacity gave the impression that the complaint was justified under law.
philip.j.fry
22-11-2005, 14:56
What if you were the cafe owner in Dundee, for example, and a group of young mums came in, occupied a couple of your tables and sat there breast feeding their nippers for an hour or so, during your busiest period.
Wouldnt you want to see the back of the law then, not because you think breaqst feeding is offensive, but because you have bills/rates to pay, your own kids to feed.
Presumably these mothers would be paying customers (if not, the cafe owner would be perfectly entitled to ask them to leave), so a group of people occupying a couple of tables is surely good for business?
Breastfeeding in public is completely acceptable to me. I never have and never will have a issue with it. :)
What if you were the cafe owner in Dundee, for example, and a group of young mums came in, occupied a couple of your tables and sat there breast feeding their nippers for an hour or so, during your busiest period.
Wouldnt you want to see the back of the law then, not because you think breaqst feeding is offensive, but because you have bills/rates to pay, your own kids to feed.
Breast feeding for an hour? Most babies don't need anywhere near that long. And as Philip J has just said, the mums in question would presumably be buying things off the menu at the same time.
But what of the other people who sit hogging tables? I don't think I have ever seen anyone moved on by a cafe owner for nursing a coffee for an hour whilst reading an entire newspaper. Is that somehow more acceptable?
Saaf_laandon_mo
22-11-2005, 15:04
Presumably these mothers would be paying customers (if not, the cafe owner would be perfectly entitled to ask them to leave), so a group of people occupying a couple of tables is surely good for business?
Thats what i was trying to get at? Does the law apply to paying customers wishing to breastfeed their child, or can someone simply walk into a cafe in order to breastfeed their child without spending any money.
Also assuming a customer has had their coffee and then spends an hour or so breastfeeding, can the cafe kick them out for 'loitering'.
I am all for breast feeding in public also believing that breast is best, and agree with previous comments about lack of decent facilities, but I do think business owners need/requirements/feelings should be considered too before passing such laws
orangebird
22-11-2005, 15:05
I think this story is ridiculous and the mother has every right to be angry. Whoever complained could've simply buggered off somewhere else.
orangebird
22-11-2005, 15:06
<snip>
I am all for breast feeding in public also believing that breast is best, and agree with previous comments about lack of decent facilities, but I do think business owners need/requirements/feelings should be considered too before passing such laws
Same here. :tu:
I disagree, this was not a law enforcement issue as the woman had the right to breastfeed in public.
I'm not disputing that she had the right to do it - but the policeman was doing his job, which was to inform someone that their behaviour had caused someone to make a complaint against them just in case it goes any further.
Whether or not the complainant had good grounds to speak to the officer is another matter.
Saaf_laandon_mo
22-11-2005, 15:09
Breast feeding for an hour? Most babies don't need anywhere near that long. And as Philip J has just said, the mums in question would presumably be buying things off the menu at the same time.
But what of the other people who sit hogging tables? I don't think I have ever seen anyone moved on by a cafe owner for nursing a coffee for an hour whilst reading an entire newspaper. Is that somehow more acceptable?
my little un gave my missus enormous problems when she first started breast feeding. she'd scream, bite, not suck for ages etc etc. Believe me it wasnt a 20 minute job.
You're right about the guy hogging a coffee for an hour, but if I was a cafe owner told him to either buy another coffee or leave as I needed the table for other paying customers, no one would have an issue with that. If I used the very same argument to move a mother feeding her baby, i'd have my picture on the front page of the Sun , with a damning headline
What if you were the cafe owner in Dundee, for example, and a group of young mums came in, occupied a couple of your tables and sat there breast feeding their nippers for an hour or so, during your busiest period. Surely you would have to bar old people whom, as we all know, buy a brew, nurse it for three hours whilst moaning about the young 'uns today, before going off to find a bus queue they can jump ;) :)
Saaf_laandon_mo
22-11-2005, 17:13
I think I'm gonna have the quietest cafe in Dundee :-(
Now if this lady had done the same in Saudi Arabia no one would have taken any notice.
Here is a perfect example of why the British are considered prudes. One lady on the Jeremy Vine show went on about how one can express milk and then bottle feed. Obviously she had no idea how hard that is in the early weeks nor is it reccommended.
Did anyone see Blessed a couple of weeks ago. There was breasfeeding on park benches, on busses and in resturants. One example of the Beeb being ahead of the game for a change. :)
Eh?
The policeman suggested that if she wanted to breastfeed in public in the future she should use a pub or a restaurant, she said.
Isn't that still in public?
Eh?
The policeman suggested that if she wanted to breastfeed in public in the future she should use a pub or a restaurant, she said.
Isn't that still in public?
Yeah but they would be licensed to serve food ;) Sorry had to say it lol.
In my view breastfeeding should be allowed as long as the woman is confortable feeding where she chooses to do it. Obviously care should be taken to not cause any accidents if feeding near a busy road etc.
Chrysalis
22-11-2005, 20:00
Is stupid, their is no law against it so the police officer had no rights to do what he did. This country seems scared of seeing breasts in public, the same people that moan about it will go on holiday to spain amongst topless women without lifting an eyebrow. As seen in the picture on the article whilst the baby is feeding you are not seeing much more then someone wearing a lot cut top, the risk is when it attaching and detaching which is only for a few seconds.
Like I said before the first time I witnessed breast feeding which was on the back of a bus I was initially shocked as it was a first time experience of it but I didnt complain or give the women a nasty comment I just looked away like anyone else can if they are uncomfortable, since then I have witnessed it a few more times and thought little of it.
I think this story is ridiculous and the mother has every right to be angry. Whoever complained could've simply buggered off somewhere else.
Put a little more bluntly than I would, but I agree.
At the very least, if the person had a real problem with it and couldn't look away for some reason, they could have asked her nicely to move. Having said that, based on the article, she sounds like she would have objected.
As to breast feeding in public, well, I think I have already expressed my feelings in this thread. Basically, used this way, the breast isn't sexual. It's a meal dispenser for a baby, and as such, I don't see that a mother breastfeeding her baby is no different to me eating a sandwich in public.
SMHarman
23-11-2005, 12:40
More Breast Feeding is good news
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4456990.stm
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