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AdamD
13-09-2005, 02:09
Strange subject I know, but I personally haven't experienced this, but a friend I trust with my life is having....issues, with what he, his fiance and 2 other tenants in the flats upstairs and down, claim is a ghost.

Numerous things have happened, first off it'd be once a month or more, now it's happening several times a week

Strange things like furniture moving around by itself, mostly at night
People feeling like they're being watched
One of the tenants claimed he was touched by something and was paralysed in fear
Two of them experiences loud scratching on one of the walls, as if someone were running their fingernails down the wall
All of them have experienced loud banging on the basement door, which is normally locked and there's no way in, or out of it.

My question, what would you do?

Graham
13-09-2005, 03:45
My question, what would you do?

Try and get some money from the people who do "Britain's Most Haunted" :D

AndrewJ
13-09-2005, 07:28
The house I rent has a history of burning itself down apparantly since a family of 3 died here in a serious fire about 18 years ago.

Weird house so far about 3 of my pc parts just "gone" weird noises, the constant sound of a boiler in the rear bedroom ( the original fire was caused by a fire in the boiler in back room ) yet the boiler is in my bedroom.

Also while redecorating after the last fire when the last tenant left ( nov 2004 ) they found symbols on the walls of some cult thing.

Freaky but I am Wiccan myself and I tend to be able to more handle these things.

*plays x-files music *

atlantis
13-09-2005, 09:40
Strange subject I know, but I personally haven't experienced this, but a friend I trust with my life is having....issues, with what he, his fiance and 2 other tenants in the flats upstairs and down, claim is a ghost.

Numerous things have happened, first off it'd be once a month or more, now it's happening several times a week

Strange things like furniture moving around by itself, mostly at night
People feeling like they're being watched
One of the tenants claimed he was touched by something and was paralysed in fear
Two of them experiences loud scratching on one of the walls, as if someone were running their fingernails down the wall
All of them have experienced loud banging on the basement door, which is normally locked and there's no way in, or out of it.

I can relate to that. In the 1980's, I lived in the middle flats of a three storey block. Every night our cat would hiss at something in the corner of the living room, we couldn't see anything, but the daft thing would puff up, and run into the hallway, and it was very impossible to make it stay in that room.
Even in the heat of summer, you would feel very cold all of a sudden, and on more than once, you could see your own breath.
We had a cupboard behind the main front door (electric & gas meters, hoover etc in there), one day, I went to get the vacuum cleaner, saw what looked like an orange light fly up from downstairs, up through my cupboard, and through the cieling into the flat upstairs. They had a big alsation, big soppy thing, lick you to death, but after that light thing went upstairs, it howled and moaned like an old horror film, and the couple started to argue all the time, which they never did before.
Three months later, we all moved out when landlords offered us alternative places to live, we were all so glad to get out.

timewarrior2001
13-09-2005, 09:48
Strange subject I know, but I personally haven't experienced this, but a friend I trust with my life is having....issues, with what he, his fiance and 2 other tenants in the flats upstairs and down, claim is a ghost.

Numerous things have happened, first off it'd be once a month or more, now it's happening several times a week

Strange things like furniture moving around by itself, mostly at night
People feeling like they're being watched
One of the tenants claimed he was touched by something and was paralysed in fear
Two of them experiences loud scratching on one of the walls, as if someone were running their fingernails down the wall
All of them have experienced loud banging on the basement door, which is normally locked and there's no way in, or out of it.

My question, what would you do?


Remember first of all It could be absolutely nothing.

Try and dig into the history of the building, see if there is anything that is likely to have caused a haunting.
If things are indeed getting worse then consider contacting the local Spiritualist church, they may be able to help or put you in touch with someone that can.

One other thing you could do is see if there a local ghost hunting group that would come and have a look, they almost certainly could put you in touch with someone that can help.

I am a member on the forums at Otherworld North East.
If you tell me roughly where the place is I'll see if they have any contacts in the area if you like.

pop80_uk
13-09-2005, 10:20
Call the Ghost Busters? :)

On a serious note im sure you can get priests and holy men in to help the problems. Although I have no experience or understanding of how they do it.

Angua
13-09-2005, 10:35
Have a look here http://www.haunted-isles.co.uk/faqs.html they should help you discover how much of a problem your friend has.

cnewton2k
13-09-2005, 11:14
I can completely understand where your friends are coming from, when I was about 15 I live in a massive corner house, big old building, and my dad used to work away and stay out over night, so a lot of the time I was there by myself. First it of all it was the cupboards in the kitchen, the doors would open and shut, by themselves when I knew for a fact that I was the only person in the house. After a while things started to get worse, I woke up one night and I could her a women and a child cry, coming from the attic, I told my dad and he said that I was just imagining things. Not long after that we moved out and a friend of mine moved in. One day popped round and asked if they had heard anything, and the look on her face was a picture, she told me that she though she was going mad, she would be woken up in the middle of the night by a child crying, get up and go and check on her daughter but her daughter was fast asleep.



One of the things I will never forget is the painting was found in the attic, it was of a young boy about 7, very strange, he had piercing blue eye and he look so sad, it kinda drew your attention to him.

punky
13-09-2005, 11:27
My question, what would you do?

Try and get some money from the people who do "Britain's Most Haunted" :D

What, you mean the bloke with the Jag from Bread and that presenter who gets scared even if she doesn't hear anything, who shine spotlights at pieces of dust and call them "orbs"? :D

Pierre
13-09-2005, 11:40
In the words of Fox Mulder - I want to believe.

Unfortunately, there is little to no evidence to prove ghosts/spirits exist.

Therefore, I cannot accept their existence.

If it was me, I'd try talking to it at first.

cnewton2k
13-09-2005, 11:49
In the words of Fox Mulder - I want to believe.

Unfortunately, there is little to no evidence to prove ghosts/spirits exist.

Therefore, I cannot accept their existence.

If it was me, I'd try talking to it at first.

I understand where you are coming from, however i have to disagree, Colin fry on living TV comes out with some amazing info, about people that have passed over.

I find it impossible to believe that all he is doing is guessing

marky
13-09-2005, 11:50
my house is haunted
my clothes disappear of the bedroom floor, and then re-materialise in the drawer clean and ironed :disturbd:

punky
13-09-2005, 11:54
I understand where you are coming from, however i have to disagree, Colin fry on living TV comes out with some amazing info, about people that have passed over.

I find it impossible to believe that all he is doing is guessing

Shame you can't watch the Penn & Teller's "Bull****" show, where they debunk things like this. They did psychics once, and demonstrate very elegantly how its all parlour tricks. They even have a con-artist make out he is a psychic and then tell you he is a con-artist at the end, you never knew til they told you.. He was more accurate than the 'genuine' ones :erm: ;)

cnewton2k
13-09-2005, 12:02
Shame you can't watch the Penn & Teller's "Bull****" show, where they debunk things like this. They did psychics once, and demonstrate very elegantly how its all parlour tricks. They even have a con-artist make out he is a psychic and then tell you he is a con-artist at the end, you never knew til they told you.. He was more accurate than the 'genuine' ones :erm: ;)

i know where you are coming from, however i do believe that he is telling the truth.

From personnel experiences with a psychic i do know there is somethign else, they told me things about my little nannie that i didnt have a clue about and then my mum told me that evrything they had said was true.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 12:04
My view on everything occult, including hauntings, psychics, horoscopes, witchcraft etc likens it all to what comes out of a bovines backside, I can't believe that people are gullible enough to actually fall for or believe any of it either.

timewarrior2001
13-09-2005, 12:19
My view on everything occult, including hauntings, psychics, horoscopes, witchcraft etc likens it all to what comes out of a bovines backside, I can't believe that people are gullible enough to actually fall for or believe any of it either.

If you ever experienced anything odd like that you would sharp change your mind.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 12:56
If you ever experienced anything odd like that you would sharp change your mind.

No, if I ever experienced anything like that, I'd have the wit to realise it's probably just my mind playing tricks on me :D

In nearly 35 years I've never experienced anything even remotely unexplainable, I don't hold out much hope for the rest of my life.

Millay
13-09-2005, 13:05
Surly this thread is for discussion of mateys problem, not wherver wer beleive or not :D

If it was me, I would be done the local records office, asking local people, etc looking for some clue as to the buildings history.

If its really freaking them out, just advise them to move out, if your renting its one of the boinuses...

AndrewJ
13-09-2005, 13:10
I seen enough to know there are things of which we cannot contemplate in our plane.

As to Bifta my advice is you have not seen things you cannot explain as you have not looked, I once did a haunted weekend in a old hotel, that was scary and it was so not fake, i checked for everything if they had holo emitters throughout i may believe it but we all know what we saw lol.

Pierre
13-09-2005, 13:27
A lot of it is mans total refusal to accept that we are nothing more that a succesful organism on a ball of rock in space. We prefer to believe that we are special and that death is not the end.

Well if we have an after life I take it all other living creatures have an after life as well???? down to microscopic creatures??

Halcyon
13-09-2005, 13:39
Back to the main problem, Have you ever seen the furniture actualy moving ?
Maybe you could try setting up some CCTV camera's or sensors to see if you can catch anything in the act.

Finding out about your properties history is probably a good idea.
Some people like to call in priests or religious people to help protect the house, however I do not know enough about this or if it works.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 14:21
I seen enough to know there are things of which we cannot contemplate in our plane.

As to Bifta my advice is you have not seen things you cannot explain as you have not looked, I once did a haunted weekend in a old hotel, that was scary and it was so not fake, i checked for everything if they had holo emitters throughout i may believe it but we all know what we saw lol.

"holo emitters"? I think you've been watching far too much Star Trek, time to come back down to Earth.

ikthius
13-09-2005, 14:45
I am not sure whether I believe or not.

but I remember watching the Derren Brown Seance, and I watched it with my wee brother, cause he was a bit scarred, and we watched it without the lights.

when the programme was at the lets find the picture, and it was probably the only bloody colour picture in the middle row, so it made you go to it anyway, my wee brother got scarred.

we watched and I laughed, and he wasn't, at the girl, who was in the dark room, and she screemed when she heard the rest of the gang go "oh no", she heard that and thought that she is somewhere where the girl killed herself.

in the ned the girl did not kill herself it was just all an illusion /trick of the mind, but my wee brother to this day still believes she is dead, although he seen her walk out of the trailer.

I am tneding on the don't believe side because of this and the most haunted crew, as you never really see anything, and the guy Derrek is always getting possessed, and he, and it never seems real. the information can be found, so nothing in that progrmme scares me.

I do like watching it though for a laugh, cause they are all suckers. I just wish that some member of the public randomly choses some site, and not even the historians should know about, then we will see what they come up with.

although, I had to go to one of my mums friends to drop something in, and I hated the house straight away, I was physically scared, of the staricase and the hallway and of a room I pass to get to the living room. I could not get into thte living room fast enough, and out the house fast enough.

It turns out, that when I was a baby, I lived there with my parents (they house swapped), and I was always scared of the room (mine, especially one corner, I remember that corner), and I had to have someone walk me out side because of the staircase,
now that is freaky.

I am not saying something is there, I am just saying I was scared of there, but I have no explanation.

ik

EDIT: I think your friend should input some cctv to watch what is happening with the furniture, to find out what is really happening

EDIT 2:
I found this on the haunted isles site, can anyone explain?????? :D
http://www.haunted-isles.co.uk/pic-walk.html

AdamD
13-09-2005, 16:10
No, if I ever experienced anything like that, I'd have the wit to realise it's probably just my mind playing tricks on me :D

In nearly 35 years I've never experienced anything even remotely unexplainable, I don't hold out much hope for the rest of my life.

Then i'd have to say I think you're close minded and ignorant to what's out there

I to have never experienced anything out of the ordinary, but I know friends who have.
You shouldn't close your mind and just outright say it doesn't exist, just because YOU haven't experienced it.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 16:45
Then i'd have to say I think you're close minded and ignorant to what's out there

I to have never experienced anything out of the ordinary, but I know friends who have.
You shouldn't close your mind and just outright say it doesn't exist, just because YOU haven't experienced it.

That's ok, so long as you don't mind me telling you that you're seriously deluded if you think any of this old tripe is actually real. :D

AndrewJ
13-09-2005, 16:52
I seen enough to know there are things of which we cannot contemplate in our plane.

As to Bifta my advice is you have not seen things you cannot explain as you have not looked, I once did a haunted weekend in a old hotel, that was scary and it was so not fake, i checked for everything if they had holo emitters throughout i may believe it but we all know what we saw lol.

"holo emitters"? I think you've been watching far too much Star Trek, time to come back down to Earth.

I was taking the micky, there was no other way to explain it unless they had them, of which I very much doubt they had. Please try to read into my posts and not just skim them thanks.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 16:54
I was taking the micky, there was no other way to explain it unless they had them, of which I very much doubt they had. Please try to read into my posts and not just skim them thanks.

:rofl: Post of the year!

timewarrior2001
13-09-2005, 16:55
EDIT 2:
I found this on the haunted isles site, can anyone explain?????? :D
http://www.haunted-isles.co.uk/pic-walk.html


Orbs, Not a huge believer in orbs, many things could cause them.
They also tend to be always involved in digital photography. Makes me think that its a fault rather than a supernatural thing.

There are some orbs that I htink warrant further investigation, but on that particular picture they could be anything, not insects because it looks cold, but could be snow or other ice crystals in the air.

AdamD
13-09-2005, 17:01
That's ok, so long as you don't mind me telling you that you're seriously deluded if you think any of this old tripe is actually real. :D

So because you haven't seen it, means you don't believe in it?

ikthius
13-09-2005, 17:01
EDIT 2:
I found this on the haunted isles site, can anyone explain?????? :D
http://www.haunted-isles.co.uk/pic-walk.html


Orbs, Not a huge believer in orbs, many things could cause them.
They also tend to be always involved in digital photography. Makes me think that its a fault rather than a supernatural thing.

There are some orbs that I htink warrant further investigation, but on that particular picture they could be anything, not insects because it looks cold, but could be snow or other ice crystals in the air.

ok, look at the photo again, and see that is is wet, the camera may have had dropplets of water on the lens. I did not see anything in those pics to make me believe, the site is not worth anything in my opinion. thats why I have a smiley next to my question :D

ik

ik

Bifta
13-09-2005, 17:10
So because you haven't seen it, means you don't believe in it?

No, and I've not seen flying pigs either, should I believe in them, you know, just in the spirt of not being (in your words) "ignorant"?

AdamD
13-09-2005, 17:17
Guess i'm just confused how people can just discard stuff about ghosts, hauntings etc, when they really have no information on the matter and haven't bothered to look into it

It is ignorant, no matter which way you look at it

It's abit like the people who claim planes never flew into the world trade centre, even though there's video evidence, photo evidence, witness testimonials and even the fact 4 planes are missing and hundreds from those planes dead/missing to, they stick to their stupid theories about the government shooting missiles at them instead.

You think ghosts, hauntings and whatnot, are a load of rubbish
You base that on the fact you're never experienced such things......so? Neither have i, doesn't mean to say it isn't a real and genuine phenomena.

Bifta
13-09-2005, 17:21
Guess i'm just confused how people can just discard stuff about ghosts, hauntings etc, when they really have no information on the matter and haven't bothered to look into it

It is ignorant, no matter which way you look at it

It's abit like the people who claim planes never flew into the world trade centre, even though there's video evidence, photo evidence, witness testimonials and even the fact 4 planes are missing and hundreds from those planes dead/missing to, they stick to their stupid theories about the government shooting missiles at them instead.

You think ghosts, hauntings and whatnot, are a load of rubbish
You base that on the fact you're never experienced such things......so? Neither have i, doesn't mean to say it isn't a real and genuine phenomena.

It's down to common sense, people with conspiracy theories like the one you're illustrating are showing just a big a lack of it as those that think there's a headless horseman riding up and down their driveway every night.

(in my opinion)

AdamD
13-09-2005, 17:26
It's down to common sense, people with conspiracy theories like the one you're illustrating are showing just a big a lack of it as those that think there's a headless horseman riding up and down their driveway every night.

(in my opinion)
LOL, that was great.

Only problem with that is, there may well be headless horseman riding up and down someone's driveway, you just don't know until you see it

I put my belief down to the fact there's so many reports, unusual photos and videos of "ghosts" on the net
Yes, no doubt half or even more so, are fake, but what about the other 1/4?

There's just to many unknowns in the universe to rule out the possiblity that such things do exist.

marky
13-09-2005, 17:31
proof is proof and i have yet to see any real proof

but i do keep an open mind hence the sig (not the i'm 36);)

AndrewJ
13-09-2005, 17:34
I agree with Marky, instead of being a ignor-anus saying I am 36 and I have seen and know everything ( or seeming so ) just because you have not seen anything.

Big world this is and in most peoples lives they won't see anything, I mean some people see hot babes having steamy fun every day but just because you don't see it don't mean you don't believe it happens right or that it may not happen?

marky
13-09-2005, 17:35
[QUOTE=Saxodriver]I agree with Marky, instead of being a ignor-anus saying I am 36 and I have seen and know everything ( or seeming so ) just because you have not seen anything.

QUOTE]
i meant my sig
once you have eliminated the impossible whatever left however improbable must be the truth "waahh i'm 36":Yikes:

AndrewJ
13-09-2005, 17:37
[QUOTE=Saxodriver]I agree with Marky, instead of being a ignor-anus saying I am 36 and I have seen and know everything ( or seeming so ) just because you have not seen anything.

QUOTE]
i meant my sig
once you have eliminated the impossible whatever left however improbable must be the truth "waahh i'm 36":Yikes:

;)

Russ
13-09-2005, 17:41
Spirits are very very real and I don't think you need to have any spiritual (pardon the pun) leanings to see that.

When I worked on The Wave's Late Night Lock-In we did an OB from Craig-y-Nos castle and while we were preparing for a link I looked out of a window (we were on the ground floor) and saw a woman all dressed in white looking at me with a very sad look on her face from about 10 feet away. I turned to the rest of the crew (we had a psychic with us) to call them over but she'd instantly gone. From where she was standing I would have seen her if she'd run away in the split second it took for me to look away.

I called the psychic over and told him what happened and he described exactly what she looked like without me telling him about her appearance.

Later on we were in a room under the stage and someone had a camcorder. It was very dark with only the light from the camera. It had a large screen and on the display I could see white objects floating about 12 inches from the lens. They were solid and well defined and floated about like moths - but in front of the camera there was NOTHING there at all. Had they been specks of dust then they would not have been as large and defined as what I was seeing.

These were called 'orbs' apparently. I'm not saying I agree with them being 'supernatural' orbs but something very very strange was going on.

I don't doubt the existence of spirits but I don't trust them one iota and if someone saw anything like that and if they had any belief in God, my advice would be to pray for His protection.

Shabba
13-09-2005, 17:51
I have seen something when i was younger that to this day (20 years on) i can't explain or reason for.

Because of people that don't believe or who have a scientific explanation (supposed), i won't hold myself up for ridicule in this thread but i know what i saw and i still feel fear when i think about the experience.

AdamD
13-09-2005, 18:07
A friend of mine who's interested in the paranormal, lives near a supposedly haunted graveyard/tribal burial ground or something

She doesn't smoke, yet caught this on camera

Download Failed (1)

Interesting eh?#
And no, she hasn't got photoshop, she barely knows how to turn the computer on and send images via email :P

Stuart
13-09-2005, 18:23
I have had a fair bit of experience of haunting..

When I had just left school, we went to stay with my Aunt in Barbados (she lived out there for years). I was sleeping in the same room as my cousin. He woke up to find an old man apparently standing at the foot of my bed watching me (this, we later discovered, was the previous owner of the plantation). Another night, I had to sleep on the Sofa (my aunt had let guests use my bed), and I heard footsteps going up the stairs (which were just the other side of the wall to the sofa).

Finally, at home, I've had one wierd experience, and a friend had another.

My experience was that I was woken up by somebody speaking my name. This was unnerving as I was the only person in the room and no one else was awake in the house. I figured it was somebody outside my window, but looked and no one was there. This was about the same time my computer started to turn itself on randomly (my computer at the time had a rather large and difficult to move rocker switch, so it wasn't Wake on Lan or anything like that that was turning it on).



My friend's experience was he was making a cup of tea, and saw an old lady watching him from the kitchen door.

atlantis
13-09-2005, 18:23
This world is full of possibilities Bifta, not all of it in the imagination.
Can I ask if you, or maybe your girlfriend/wife ever had a feeling that something was going to happen, no logical explanation behind the feeling, but it did happen?
People get these feeling in many ways, like you know you're going to get a 'phone call before it rings, and you even know who it is.
Happens to me a lot, or you get a feeling you're going to meet someone that day, even though they've not rang up first.
Point is, keep an open mind at all times, things may not have happened to you yet, but they will!

ikthius
13-09-2005, 18:23
A friend of mine who's interested in the paranormal, lives near a supposedly haunted graveyard/tribal burial ground or something

She doesn't smoke, yet caught this on camera

Download Failed (1)

Interesting eh?#
And no, she hasn't got photoshop, she barely knows how to turn the computer on and send images via email :P

well considering the dog is not interested or going nuts at the camera, I would dismay this photo, as animals are supposed to have a better sense for the spirits.

ik

Martin
13-09-2005, 18:30
Well it seems there are people who believe and people who don't, fair enough! But i wonder if the very closed minded people would accept that ghosts exist even if one walked up and said " I'm a ghost"

Funny old world init!

AdamD
13-09-2005, 18:39
well considering the dog is not interested or going nuts at the camera, I would dismay this photo, as animals are supposed to have a better sense for the spirits.

ik

That doesn't mean it's going to go nuts everytime a spirit passes by, come on, be realistic.
If you're dismaying the photo, what do you think it is? dodgy camera?

Martin
13-09-2005, 18:44
I have some photo's from a New Year party that had loads of orbs on them! Some people i have shown are convinced they are spirits others say its the light!!

ikthius
13-09-2005, 18:45
well considering the dog is not interested or going nuts at the camera, I would dismay this photo, as animals are supposed to have a better sense for the spirits.

ik

That doesn't mean it's going to go nuts everytime a spirit passes by, come on, be realistic.
If you're dismaying the photo, what do you think it is? dodgy camera?

the image of the spirit thing also looks slightly super imposed, but then again I am no expert, in photos, or skepticism of debunking the paranormal, but I don't believe that picture is evidence of a spirit.

I would like proper proof, like someone I know is dead and is in a photo I took.

ik

Martin
13-09-2005, 18:47
I would like proper proof, like someone I know is dead and is in a photo I took.

ik

There was a chap on Crossing Over who took a photo in showing him and in the reflection of his PC's monitor his dead brother!!!

AdamD
13-09-2005, 18:50
There was a chap on Crossing Over who took a photo in showing him and in the reflection of his PC's monitor his dead brother!!!

Gah, that'd freak me out

Oddly enough, that's the best way to "Capture the dead", so to speak
I've seen quite a few photos of supposed dead people on tv screens and computer monitors
Odd.
__________________

the image of the spirit thing also looks slightly super imposed, but then again I am no expert, in photos, or skepticism of debunking the paranormal, but I don't believe that picture is evidence of a spirit.

I would like proper proof, like someone I know is dead and is in a photo I took.

ik

Well, 'im not saying it's a spirit either, I just found it interesting
The first thought that came into people's minds, was cigarette smoke, but see, that's the original picture from her camera, she has no editing abilities on her PC.
She isn't capable of making a fake photo.

Graham
13-09-2005, 19:42
My question, what would you do?

Try and get some money from the people who do "Britain's Most Haunted" :D

What, you mean the bloke with the Jag from Bread and that presenter who gets scared even if she doesn't hear anything, who shine spotlights at pieces of dust and call them "orbs"? :D

Rearrange these words to get a well known phrase or saying:

Born
Sucker
Minute
Every
There's
A

:D
__________________

Guess i'm just confused how people can just discard stuff about ghosts, hauntings etc, when they really have no information on the matter and haven't bothered to look into it

It is ignorant, no matter which way you look at it

Because people I trust and respect (eg James Randi) *have* looked into subjects like this (and Uri Gellar and other claimed "psychics" etc) and have found *NO* proof of any "spiritual" or other happenings.

This is not "ignorance", in fact it's entirely the converse. The "ignorance" is on the part of those who will believe in such things because they want to, without subjecting the evidence to proper scrutiny.

It's abit like the people who claim planes never flew into the world trade centre, even though there's video evidence, photo evidence, witness testimonials and even the fact 4 planes are missing and hundreds from those planes dead/missing to, they stick to their stupid theories about the government shooting missiles at them instead.

Nonsense! It is *NOTHING* like that!

It is like people claiming that UFOs, ghosts, spirits, "rods", "orbs" or whatever exist because they've seen a photo of said phenomenon, but *without* considering (or being willing to accept) that there may be a perfectly normal physical explanation for what they have seen.

The "believers" will stick to their theories that it's some sort of paranormal phenomenon without subjecting it to any sort of critical examination (or they claim that they have, but said examination turns out to be flawed or incomplete).

You think ghosts, hauntings and whatnot, are a load of rubbish
You base that on the fact you're never experienced such things......so? Neither have i, doesn't mean to say it isn't a real and genuine phenomena.

If you can provide any real *PROOF* which is independantly verifiable and scientifically demonstrable (ie subject to repetition) *then* I will be willing to consider that such things actually exist, but until then whilst I accept that, for instance, whilst the Loch Ness Monster *could* theoretically exist, I'm not going to believe in it simply because someone else says "I saw it!"
__________________

A friend of mine who's interested in the paranormal, lives near a supposedly haunted graveyard/tribal burial ground or something

She doesn't smoke, yet caught this on camera

Interesting eh?#

Now let's have a think about this picture from a rational and scientific point of view:

1) I'd give very good odds that I'd be right in saying it's a digital camera.

2) The main subjects are very dark, hence the automatic flash would have turned on.

3) Because it's dark, the camera would have selected a slow shutter speed

4) Digital cameras are well known for producing visual artifacts due to the proximity of the flash to the lens meaning that motes of dust etc reflect the light back causing fuzzy blobs to appear in the image.

5) The central "highlight" (just down to the right of the centre of the picture with its blue white tinge looks strikingly like the colour of a camera flash (which is biased towards the blue end of the spectrum)

6) There is also a smaller highlight (further down to the right) which suggests that the camera has a "red eye reduction" feature whereby it fires the flash a few times in quick succession before the main flash to cause the subject's iris to contract.

7) Note also the way the first two diagonals (running from the right hand side up and towards the left) are parallel, and then the subsequent moves (down and to the left) are also parallel.

So what I'd say you've got here is a perfect example of digital artifacts being caused by the light from the flash reflecting off dust close to the camera lens and not anything that's paranormal in the slightest.

Still, why let the facts get in the way of "true belief"!!

AdamD
13-09-2005, 20:48
I appreciate the well thought out response, but there's allways a chance that is ISN'T an artifact of a digital camera

It could be either, that's the great part about the paranormal, the not knowing, the mystery and the "What if" scenarios.

I'm not ignorant, I am sceptical, but also keep an open mind about things

I don't believe in ghosts because I saw one picture, I believe in ghosts because i've seen hundreds of them, plus witness testimonials.

Now let's have a think about this picture from a rational and scientific point of view:

Not everything can be explained by science.

Russ
13-09-2005, 21:21
It is like people claiming that UFOs, ghosts, spirits, "rods", "orbs" or whatever exist because they've seen a photo of said phenomenon, but *without* considering (or being willing to accept) that there may be a perfectly normal physical explanation for what they have seen.

If you can offer a valid explanation of how a woman can disappear from standing in front of me then I'd like to hear it. The only possibility I can think of was the fact it was about 1am and I was quite tired - but that pales in to insignificance when you bear in mind that the psychic who was with us proceeded to describe the woman I'd just seen. He described what she was wearing, what her hair was like, her approximate age etc. No-one would have known that.

timewarrior2001
13-09-2005, 23:39
People on here seem to confuse Most haunted with a scientfic paranormal investigation.

Most haunted is an entertaining tv show, its is 100% useless at looking for proof of paranormal activity because they do not use any kind of scientific control methods.

I welcome someone to prove once and for all there is no such hting as spirits, it occurs to me that its about as likely as someone proving 100% there is.

My experience with a pyschic was excellent, I went in with a fairly but not 100% sceptical mind and was blown away with the stuff and traits of my family members no longer with us, he gave names, dates, descriptions and recollections of past times I spent with said members. Would be difficult to fake dont you think?
__________________

A friend of mine who's interested in the paranormal, lives near a supposedly haunted graveyard/tribal burial ground or something

She doesn't smoke, yet caught this on camera

http://www.uoforums.com/mist.jpg

Interesting eh?#
And no, she hasn't got photoshop, she barely knows how to turn the computer on and send images via email :P

The sceptic in me says that it isnt really a good choice of a photo. I mean what is the subject?

The scientific side of me says if its not a digital camera, have the negatives been checked for faults?

The believer side of me says its ectoplasm

Stuart
14-09-2005, 00:04
<snip>

Because people I trust and respect (eg James Randi) *have* looked into subjects like this (and Uri Gellar and other claimed "psychics" etc) and have found *NO* proof of any "spiritual" or other happenings.

This is not "ignorance", in fact it's entirely the converse. The "ignorance" is on the part of those who will believe in such things because they want to, without subjecting the evidence to proper scrutiny.
<snip>

I have to admit, I lost what little respect I had for James Randi when he announced on TV he was going to disprove a supernatural story. This has nothing to do with whether I believe in the supernatural or not (I have seen and heard things that could be considered supernatural, but am willing to accept there are natural explanations for them).

It has more to do with the fact that to conduct a proper scientific investigation of something, the scientist investigating HAS to have an open mind. If he or she does not, that can skew the findings of the investigation.

Based on what he says and what I have read, James Randi does not.

chris_mc_1266
14-09-2005, 00:04
1 Word........... Run

timewarrior2001
14-09-2005, 00:15
1 Word........... Run

Why? the dead cant hurt you.

chris_mc_1266
14-09-2005, 00:16
that creeps the s**t out of me :(:(:( no....big no no

marky
14-09-2005, 00:17
Why? the dead cant hurt you.
depends how high you drop them from :disturbd:

timewarrior2001
14-09-2005, 00:22
I've experienced stuff and although very frightening at times theres absolutely nothing to worry about in the vast majority of cases.

I've seen shadows moving on a landing when no one was upstairs, I've heard floorboards creaking when no one is around.
On monday night I saw a bright flash of whitelight in our pitch black hall way (as if a camera flash went off but a thick curtain was covering the only window/door)
When gloss painting I got the over powering smell of roses (I was using contractors gloss too and it was powerfull smelling stuff, I was laid down painting the skirting boards with my head about 10"'s from the paint)
I've been woken by the feeling of a presence in my bedroom, made me feel extremely unwelcome and was pretty scary.
Continuously catch the dog staring down the stairs and out of the bedroom door, yet i know i will go ot bed tonight and sleep well.

:shrug:

AdamD
14-09-2005, 01:12
The sceptic in me says that it isnt really a good choice of a photo. I mean what is the subject?

The scientific side of me says if its not a digital camera, have the negatives been checked for faults?

The believer side of me says its ectoplasm

I'll give you the story behind the picture(S) (there's more than one, the other 3 have what you would call "Orbs" in them)
Although i'll admit, they look like oddities on the camera to me.

Thought I would add this pic. My mom, my daughter, and I went out to an area around here called The Devil's Backbone. It is supposed to be extremely haunted. When I took this pic, I did not see any mist, it did not show up in any of the other pics I took within minutes of this pic, and I am not too sure what it is. I sent a copy to someone and they told me it was a wonderful example of ectoplasm. I'll let you draw your own conclusions. http://www.uoforums.com/images/smilies/grin.gif

Martin
14-09-2005, 01:13
Why? the dead cant hurt you.

True but they could give you a nasty fright! :Yikes:

Bifta
14-09-2005, 01:17
I can hear Ray Parker Jr for some reason.

san antonio man
14-09-2005, 02:17
I very much believe in the paronormal.

It was 1999 i think or it could of been 2000 my self and two friends stayed in this hotel in blackpool and we were put up at the top of the hotel where there were only 2 rooms which were allocated to us i think they thought because we were teenagers we were going to be making lots of noise.
Anyway were all three in one of the bedrooms and my friend was in the shower! while my self and my friend were sat on the bed chatting, suddenly we heard knocking on the wall so knocked back and there was knocking again but forgetting there couldnt of been anyone in that room because it was my friends and he was sitting next to me :shocked:.
So as we went in to the hall way to the other room to investigate there wasnt any noise at this time we opened the door and went in but nothing was there so we locked the door and scurryed back in to the other room where my friend was in the shower, by this time she had got out and we explained what had happened she did'nt believe us anyway my friend was too scared to sleep in the other room by him self so he stayed in ours.
Well as i can remember correctly we were all chatting about 10pm on the bed with the lights on with the keys in the door of the hotel bedroom and way they started rocking very softly back and forth so we ignored it thinking it would stop which it did anyway we thought it could of been out imagination.
As a few hours past we crawled in to our seperate beds the lights were off at this point i looked at the door to the hotel bedroom and i could see the light coming in from the hall way under the door as i closed my eyes for a split second and when i opened them i saw a figure crouched down at the door it had no human form but it was athough it was a three dimensional figure as i shouted look look it dissapeared i ran and put the lights on as i switched them on i heard a bang! as i put the lights on the ash tray was next to my foot like a kicked it which i hadnt and the cigs which were in the ash tray were in the shape of a triangle by the beds.
After this we were scared so we kept the lights on for a few hours but we could'nt sleep so my friend turned them off we were all in the same bed by this point because we were still scared shortly after turning the lights off my friend looked towards the window and began to screem i looked and there coming towards us was the figure i had previously seen i ran and put the lights on and it wasn't there.
About 10 minutes later a telephone began to ring constantly and it sounded to be coming from the room next to ours but remember there was,nt anybody in there and there was no phone anyway!!!!!........:Yikes: .
After it constanly ringing for at least 20 mins i said if you want us to leave we will just stop ringing and as i said that it stopped straight away!.:erm:
We ran out of the hotel around 4.30am and didnt return back to the hotel to pack our bags until around 12 noon.
We checked in to another hotel then.

Graham
14-09-2005, 03:15
I appreciate the well thought out response, but there's allways a chance that is ISN'T an artifact of a digital camera

Yes, there's also a chance it could be a flying pig, however of the two explanations, I know which one *I* consider to be the most likely.

Oh, and I find sarcasm to be very necessary when I know that there's little other hope of getting a point across...! ;)

It could be either, that's the great part about the paranormal, the not knowing, the mystery and the "What if" scenarios.

Sorry? What's so great about that??

Personally I prefer science which is more interested in knowing, in discovering the truth behind mysteries and analyzing "what if" scenarios to see which may actually be true.

I'm not ignorant, I am sceptical, but also keep an open mind about things

I can tell you believe that...!!!

I don't believe in ghosts because I saw one picture, I believe in ghosts because i've seen hundreds of them, plus witness testimonials.

"Hundreds"?! Personally, or perhaps photographs like the one above?

And witness testemonials, whilst entertaining, are, I put it to you, possibly not as reliable as you might hope to believe.

Now let's have a think about this picture from a rational and scientific point of view:

Not everything can be explained by science.

True.

Why people believe that something unusual must be a ghost/ UFO/ fairies at the bottom of the garden/ whatever because they can't see a rational explanation for it is something that science will *never* be able to explain...! :rofl:
__________________

It is like people claiming that UFOs, ghosts, spirits, "rods", "orbs" or whatever exist because they've seen a photo of said phenomenon, but *without* considering (or being willing to accept) that there may be a perfectly normal physical explanation for what they have seen.

If you can offer a valid explanation of how a woman can disappear from standing in front of me then I'd like to hear it. The only possibility I can think of was the fact it was about 1am and I was quite tired

Which is a good starting point.

Perhaps you were more tired than you thought and you were hallucinating.

Perhaps you saw a series of shapes and shades of light and dark that looked like a figure and your mind filled in the details (the brain is good at doing this, cf the "face" on Mars) but that, when you looked again, turned out to be nothing more than shadows and shapes, giving the impression that she had "disappeared".

It would be nice if you *could* believe your eyes, but the fact is that the eyes (or, rather, the mind) plays tricks.

but that pales in to insignificance when you bear in mind that the psychic who was with us proceeded to describe the woman I'd just seen. He described what she was wearing, what her hair was like, her approximate age etc. No-one would have known that.

There are many ways that supposed "psychics" can (either deliberately or unconsciously) do tricks like that. See Derren Brown, James Randi et al for more information.
__________________

I welcome someone to prove once and for all there is no such hting as spirits, it occurs to me that its about as likely as someone proving 100% there is.

<#include std:you_can't_prove_a_negative discussion>

My experience with a pyschic was excellent, I went in with a fairly but not 100% sceptical mind and was blown away with the stuff and traits of my family members no longer with us, he gave names, dates, descriptions and recollections of past times I spent with said members. Would be difficult to fake dont you think?

Just because you consider it would be "difficult to fake" does *not* mean that it was *not* a fake.
__________________

I have to admit, I lost what little respect I had for James Randi when he announced on TV he was going to disprove a supernatural story. This has nothing to do with whether I believe in the supernatural or not (I have seen and heard things that could be considered supernatural, but am willing to accept there are natural explanations for them).

It has more to do with the fact that to conduct a proper scientific investigation of something, the scientist investigating HAS to have an open mind. If he or she does not, that can skew the findings of the investigation.

Based on what he says and what I have read, James Randi does not.

I'm sorry, I don't follow your argument here.

As I'm sure you've seen me mention before, there's a thing called the "Burden of Proof", ie that if you claim that something is true, it's up to you to prove that it is so.

If I can then come along and kick holes in the methods or reasoning that you have used, it is not because I don't have an open mind, it is because there are faults and flaws in your proof.

The "skew" in the "investigation" comes from the *initial* research done into it, ie by those who claim that the "supernatural story" is true, not those who then go on to debunk it.

AdamD
14-09-2005, 03:18
Well it's my belief, that science won't ever be able to explain most if not all the paranormal
Much like science can't prove god exists or doesn't.

Just my opinion.

Graham
14-09-2005, 03:25
I've seen shadows moving on a landing when no one was upstairs, I've heard floorboards creaking when no one is around.

Houses, amazingly, are not entirely solid objects, they can move. This can make floorboards creak and lightbulbs swing, as can a breeze on a lamp shade.

On monday night I saw a bright flash of whitelight in our pitch black hall way (as if a camera flash went off but a thick curtain was covering the only window/door)

And there was no way for light to get through? Not the slightest chink? I don't know the layout of the hall, but maybe a car turned around with lights on high beam and, just for a second, they shone through a small gap.

Or maybe your visual cortex had a "flash" and your brain perceived something that didn't actually happen.

When gloss painting I got the over powering smell of roses (I was using contractors gloss too and it was powerfull smelling stuff, I was laid down painting the skirting boards with my head about 10"'s from the paint)

Ever had a CAT scan?

I've been woken by the feeling of a presence in my bedroom, made me feel extremely unwelcome and was pretty scary.

Been there, had that, see the Alien Abduction threads. Except that I knew it was a mental phenomenon, not paranormal.

Continuously catch the dog staring down the stairs and out of the bedroom door

Maybe it heard a cat.

:shrug:

Exactly.
__________________

Well it's my belief, that science won't ever be able to explain most if not all the paranormal

Given that paranormal is often defined as something that science can't define I think this is what's known as circular logic...!!

Much like science can't prove god exists or doesn't.

Trust me, let's not go there, ok...?! :disturbd:

timewarrior2001
14-09-2005, 11:48
Houses, amazingly, are not entirely solid objects, they can move. This can make floorboards creak and lightbulbs swing, as can a breeze on a lamp shade.



And there was no way for light to get through? Not the slightest chink? I don't know the layout of the hall, but maybe a car turned around with lights on high beam and, just for a second, they shone through a small gap.

Or maybe your visual cortex had a "flash" and your brain perceived something that didn't actually happen.



Ever had a CAT scan?



Been there, had that, see the Alien Abduction threads. Except that I knew it was a mental phenomenon, not paranormal.



Maybe it heard a cat.



Exactly.
__________________



Given that paranormal is often defined as something that science can't define I think this is what's known as circular logic...!!



Trust me, let's not go there, ok...?! :disturbd:



Graham I do believe, but I try and keep an open mind. I do look for obvious explanations.

The feeling of unease was probably just a reaction to waking up, I may have been having a bad dream or something like that.
The flash of light:
Our house is in the middle of a street (heh heh just like the madness song) Cars dont turn round in the vicinity of our house, its set back approx 15 feet from the path and downhill. The door curtain cover the door entirely when drawn by about 6" once side I'd guess 10 to 12 " the other side. But yes there may be other explanations I do concede that.

Dog may have heard a cat its a possibility i guess there is a cat hangs aorund our house but I have yet to hear it mieow, doesnt mean it doesnt though.

The smell of roses, I cant explain that one, I really dont know what happened there but it struck me that roses couldnt over power the smell of gloss paint. Not sure what you were getting at by mentioning a CAT scan though.

Xaccers
14-09-2005, 12:27
What if its not just most people who can't see spirits?
What if they can't see each other either? :erm:

Stuart
14-09-2005, 13:34
I have to admit, I lost what little respect I had for James Randi when he announced on TV he was going to disprove a supernatural story. This has nothing to do with whether I believe in the supernatural or not (I have seen and heard things that could be considered supernatural, but am willing to accept there are natural explanations for them).

It has more to do with the fact that to conduct a proper scientific investigation of something, the scientist investigating HAS to have an open mind. If he or she does not, that can skew the findings of the investigation.

Based on what he says and what I have read, James Randi does not.

I'm sorry, I don't follow your argument here.

As I'm sure you've seen me mention before, there's a thing called the "Burden of Proof", ie that if you claim that something is true, it's up to you to prove that it is so.

If I can then come along and kick holes in the methods or reasoning that you have used, it is not because I don't have an open mind, it is because there are faults and flaws in your proof.

The "skew" in the "investigation" comes from the *initial* research done into it, ie by those who claim that the "supernatural story" is true, not those who then go on to debunk it.

It's simply that I have heard him *state* that he is going to disprove various theories/stories. This, to me, suggests a closed mind which will skew any investigation he then performs (for the record, if somebody starts by stating they will *prove* something, it will also skew the results).

Burden of proof is a fundamental part of science, and, you are right, most supernaturaal stories do fall foul of it.

Russ
14-09-2005, 16:26
There are many ways that supposed "psychics" can (either deliberately or unconsciously) do tricks like that. See Derren Brown, James Randi et al for more information.

Simply impossible. I turned to the guy and said "You'll never guess what I just saw, there was a woman by that door and she just vanished". He paused for a moment then went on to describe her appearance exactly as it was, including her facial expression. I didn't give him anything to go on at all. He had no way of knowing at all.

I used to watch Randi James in the 80s and his tricks always rested on gleaning some kind of information from the victim. I didn't give our psychic anything at all.

Graham
14-09-2005, 20:53
Graham I do believe, but I try and keep an open mind. I do look for obvious explanations.

And Occam's Razor suggests that it's most usually the right one.

Not sure what you were getting at by mentioning a CAT scan though.

Things like you describe, eg flashes of light and smells could be down to neurological problems.
__________________

I have heard him *state* that he is going to disprove various theories/stories. This, to me, suggests a closed mind which will skew any investigation he then performs (for the record, if somebody starts by stating they will *prove* something, it will also skew the results).

True, but from what I gather, this was on TV, so presumably he has *already* disproved whatever he is referring to.

If he was deliberately (or unconsciously) skewing his results, the skew should be demonstrable by others. I'm not aware of this happening.
__________________

There are many ways that supposed "psychics" can (either deliberately or unconsciously) do tricks like that. See Derren Brown, James Randi et al for more information.

Simply impossible. I turned to the guy and said "You'll never guess what I just saw, there was a woman by that door and she just vanished". He paused for a moment then went on to describe her appearance exactly as it was, including her facial expression. I didn't give him anything to go on at all. He had no way of knowing at all.

I don't doubt that you believe this and would probably swear to it, but there are still many ways that this could have happened, eg someone (perhaps the "psychic" themselves!) had already mentioned that "there was this sad looking woman in white" which could have primed your expectations.

Russ
14-09-2005, 20:57
I don't doubt that you believe this and would probably swear to it, but there are still many ways that this could have happened, eg someone (perhaps the "psychic" themselves!) had already mentioned that "there was this sad looking woman in white" which could have primed your expectations.

The ghost which is usually seen there is of Madame Patti, a world-famous opera singer from the 19th century. She is always seen as a buxom, middle aged woman with a kindly face.

Nobody had ever reported seeing what I saw. Had the psychic not said what he came out with then I'd have put it down to my imagination.

marky
14-09-2005, 20:59
marky now breaks out the holy water and garlic :Yikes:

Bifta
14-09-2005, 22:05
You've gotta wonder if Psychics aren't complete fraudsters why the American military hasn't employed one to find Bin Laden.

http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/

marky
14-09-2005, 22:08
You've gotta wonder if Psychics aren't complete fraudsters why the American military hasn't employed one to find Bin Laden.

they did it was called american intelligence :rolleyes:

Bifta
14-09-2005, 22:11
they did it was called american intelligence :rolleyes:

Eh? Didn't really answer the question.

marky
14-09-2005, 22:20
Eh? Didn't really answer the question.

only one i could find http://www.ufon.org/truthseekers/truth/tr7remv.html:dunce:

timewarrior2001
14-09-2005, 23:28
You've gotta wonder if Psychics aren't complete fraudsters why the American military hasn't employed one to find Bin Laden.

http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/

American military have in the past used psychics to detect nuclear weapons in russia. I see no reason why they wouldnt use them now.

Halcyon
15-09-2005, 01:21
That hotel story you mentioned was freaky. Not the kind of thing I want to read before going to bed. I can see why you lot got out ASAP.

Martin
15-09-2005, 01:33
You've gotta wonder if Psychics aren't complete fraudsters why the American military hasn't employed one to find Bin Laden.

http://www.badpsychics.co.uk/

Interesting site but some of the Psychic fakes stuff is quite amusing!

Bifta
15-09-2005, 10:19
American military have in the past used psychics to detect nuclear weapons in russia. I see no reason why they wouldnt use them now.

And if they are, why haven't they found Bin Laden yet? I'll tell you why, because Psychics are fake, that's why!

timewarrior2001
15-09-2005, 10:40
And if they are, why haven't they found Bin Laden yet? I'll tell you why, because Psychics are fake, that's why!

In your oppinion and you yourself admitted you have never had any experiences.

So its fairly obvious to me that you dont believe and if you dont believe you couldnt never see it as possible.

I dont believe in god, but millions do does that make me right?

Xaccers
15-09-2005, 10:55
In your oppinion and you yourself admitted you have never had any experiences.

So its fairly obvious to me that you dont believe and if you dont believe you couldnt never see it as possible.

I dont believe in god, but millions do does that make me right?

According to god faq, yes :)