View Full Version : Sacked by Ntl.
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:00
I have been sacked for gross misconduct regarding one of my previous posts on the other site using the username of Ntlrebel.
I stand by this post and offer no retraction of what I have said.
There is more to this than meets the eye, needless to say I have been a naughty boy and this, in my opinion doesn't warrant the fact that I have been sacked, but only an appeal and maybe tribunal will tell.
I have never been a ' yes ' man but have always been honest and open with my opinions whether please or offend.
I have enjoyed my time with Ntl, although I deeply feel that the level of service offered to Ntl customers, both with products and customer services / technical support issues are not up to the standard that they should be. I am sure most of you will agree with me.
It has been my privilidge to be part of Ntl but now that the hammer has fallen, it is time to move on.
NtlRebelReborn
a.k.a Ntlrebel
I deeply feel that the level of service offered to Ntl customers, both with products and customer services / technical support issues are not up to the standard that they should be. I am sure most of you will agree with me.
Oh we agree. Sorry to hear you got the sack.
Just exactly what and where did you post?
downquark1
16-10-2003, 19:06
Have those comments been deleted?
Sorry to hear about your departure. If you want to talk here then fine, but don't jepordise your appeal/Tribunal.
I hope you'll stick around here anyway.
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:15
Sorry to hear about your departure. If you want to talk here then fine, but don't jepordise your appeal/Tribunal.
I hope you'll stick around here anyway.
Thanks for the kind words.
The post can be found here. Sorry dont know how to hide it.
nthellworld User Forum > General ntl > Telco & Dial Up Internet Discussion > ntl:freedom Discussion > Merged-ntl:freedom dial-up number change.
6th Post down.
downquark1
16-10-2003, 19:22
Wow sacked for that :eek:
Ay, shouldn't have called them monkeys, it's Trained Monkies :)
Thanks, here's the link here (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showpost.php?p=523156&postcount=6)
If you ask me, seems to me lately that ntl seem intent on upsetting their staff more than improving their services. :rolleyes:
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:29
Thanks, here's the link here (http://www.nthellworld.com/forum/showpost.php?p=523156&postcount=6)
How do you do that ?
How do you do that ?
From the entry you made, I right clicked on the post number and copied the link.
In the entry I made I highlighted the word 'here' and inserted a link using the WSYSIG interface for posting.
I'm sure a MOD could explain it better !!
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:37
From the entry you made, I right clicked on the post number and copied the link.
In the entry I made I highlighted the word 'here' and inserted a link using the WSYSIG interface for posting.
I'm sure a MOD could explain it better !!
Thanks for the reply. I kind of see how it works. Will have to play around with it first.
sorry to hear that you got the sack
how did they find out it was you?
this is worrying coz its bound to put NTL staff off posting here & on .com, so we'll have less help from the people who do seem to care
sorry to hear that you got the sack
how did they find out it was you?
this is worrying coz its bound to put NTL staff off posting here & on .com, so we'll have less help from the people who do seem to care
I hope it doesn't, we need more of the CLT and others from NTL to see that we are a serious site that want to resolve problems for their client base.
Tracked him by his email address I assume. It must have been a moderator I take it that flagged it upto the bosses ?
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:49
sorry to hear that you got the sack
how did they find out it was you?
this is worrying coz its bound to put NTL staff off posting here & on .com, so we'll have less help from the people who do seem to care
I don't want to go into too many details but apparently it was from the ip address that posted on the site. This was then traced to my cable modem mac address. But like I said there is more to this than meets the eye. Can't say too much yet but will keep you posted.
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 19:54
Tracked him by his email address I assume. It must have been a moderator I take it that flagged it upto the bosses ?
The e mail address was not registered to me, hence 1 count of gross misconduct. Count 2 was bringing the company name into disrepute and count 3 was the releasing of privelidged information about the new freedom software.
Counts 2 & 3 no way but count 1 I fully hold my hand up to.
blackthorn
16-10-2003, 20:00
Sorry to hear you`ve lost your job.
I`ve read your posts for a while now and found them to be informative. So it appears you cant even say the truth nowadays, even if it is about the company you work for. Very sad
ian@huth
16-10-2003, 20:16
How do you do that ?
If you click on the reply button to post #9 you can see how it looks before it's posted.
Commiserations ntlrebel:(
The e mail address was not registered to me, hence 1 count of gross misconduct. Count 2 was bringing the company name into disrepute and count 3 was the releasing of privelidged information about the new freedom software.
Counts 2 & 3 no way but count 1 I fully hold my hand up to.
Number 3 seems a little strange to me given that here
http://www.theregister.com/content/6/33404.html
NTL have given a statment that the process of moving users to the new dialer was begun in APRIL of this year.
I find it hard to see how you were releasing 'priveledged' information when you posts was made 6 months ish after the change was implemented. Was it priveledged infor to those users changed in April as well or are NTL simply misleading the register? Either way somethig seems less that right there.
NTL Rebel, sorry to hear you got kicked out. Hope you find a job soon.
ian@huth
16-10-2003, 20:39
Count 2 was bringing the company name into disrepute
The company is doing enough of that itself. :D
I don't want to go into too many details but apparently it was from the ip address that posted on the site. This was then traced to my cable modem mac address. But like I said there is more to this than meets the eye. Can't say too much yet but will keep you posted.
This sounds to me as though NTL have overstepped the bounds of reason if they have been investigating you in this manner. I would be researching my rights under the DPA in this instance.
KingPhoenix
16-10-2003, 21:08
sorry to hear that you got the sack
how did they find out it was you?
this is worrying coz its bound to put NTL staff off posting here & on .com, so we'll have less help from the people who do seem to care
Shouldnt put NTL staff off from posting here, as ntl have absolutely no ability to get hold of the IP logs for this site ;)
Sorry to hear ya got the sack....... take em to tribuneral and rinse them!!!!
The comments you posted were of a personal opinion, which had no libelous content towards the company. Heck you even logged in using your personal account (non CLT account)
If you didnt work for NTL, what would they have done then? started a case against you??? i think not......
Again, i say take em to court, theyve been pedantic,,,
Personally i just feel this adds more fuel to the closure of .com..... its going to happen, its so obvious.... slowly knocking the teams away...... :(
But at least were here :D
homealone
16-10-2003, 21:26
<snip> Heck you even logged in using your personal account (non CLT account)
<snip>:D
Sorry to hear your bad news NtlRebelReborn - I am still puzzled why the email addie was such a big deal, as well?
I don't want to go into too many details but apparently it was from the ip address that posted on the site. This was then traced to my cable modem mac address. But like I said there is more to this than meets the eye. Can't say too much yet but will keep you posted.
Out of interest, when did ntl trace your IP address?
Richard M
16-10-2003, 22:35
Hmm...we were discussing NTL employees this morning in this thread:
http://forum.nthellworld.co.uk/showpost.php?p=67141&postcount=86
I'm sorry to hear that you were let go mate. :(
NTL employees are 100% secure by posting here (as long as they don't use their real names) because our webhost has already had to put up with the annoying experience of NTL sending the boys round this week (read Frank's blog).
If you insist on posting comments such as
it has been decided to give it away to the MONKEYS at Newport tech support
On a site owned by the company that paid your wages then I'm sorry but you must have expected something like this to happen.
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 22:53
If you insist on posting comments such as
On a site owned by the company that paid your wages then I'm sorry but you must have expected something like this to happen.
Whether the company pays my wages or not, is not the point, I still have the right to voice my opinion.
Whether the company pays my wages or not, is not the point, I still have the right to voice my opinion.
You certainly do, likewise, if you make attempts at bringing their company into disrepute on their OWN web site, they have the right to take disciplinary action against you.
Don't be so ridiculous.
Well said, now try backing it up with something of substance.
georgepomone
16-10-2003, 23:01
Hi ntlrebel,
these things will always happen. So sorry that your job has ended.
As for being what you said it don't really matter as hundreds have lost their jobs with ntl in the past who have provided service under the most trying conditions.
If ntl were undeserving of these comments that's differant.I make no comment on the service because we all know the reason for these sites.They are beginning to show the extremes of panic setting in.That's when these companies lash out in all directions.
I know if I was on dial up and came across this nonsense of this dialer software then I would be pulling out.Another long term customer gone.I can't see where they think they are going at the moment with all this dirty washing appearing in front of the customers eyes.They can't plead that it's nothing to do with them because senior management seems to be in the background of a lot of it.A company the size of ntl doing this gives the hint that they have lost the plot.What are the bosses doing allowing this to happen.It really is time they got a grip.All this crap going on means that the problem isn't at the bottom but at the top.No large company can afford this nonsense going on it's time some of this management in the middle tier were cracked down on.They are doing nobody any service at all.
NtlRebelReborn
16-10-2003, 23:05
You certainly do, likewise, if you make attempts at bringing their company into disrepute on their OWN web site, they have the right to take disciplinary action against you.
I don't want to be drawn into an arguement, but I can see your point.
Don't forget I posted on an open public forum, one which I have posted on long before I worked for Ntl.
I don't want to be drawn into an arguement, but I can see your point.
Don't forget I posted on an open public forum, one which I have posted on long before I worked for Ntl.
At first I thought it was a little over zealous, i.e. sacking you when a verbal or written warning would probably suffice but then I thought about wether I'd post anything negative about any companies I'd work for while I was still employed by them, I probably would, but I'd make sure there was no information tracing it back to me and I certainly wouldn't do it on their own site. Anyway, getting the sack for any reason is not a pleasant experience and I hope you find gainful employment again soon.
Whether the company pays my wages or not, is not the point, I still have the right to voice my opinion.That is correct, and on that basis I would go to tribunal for unfair dismissal. The information is not confidential because it is in a press release. Also, if you were posting in your own time, using a non-CLT account which is umarked as an ntl staff account, then ntl do not have a leg to stand on.
{FU}Fubar
16-10-2003, 23:49
Bifta is calling some one a monkey an insult then ? because we did evolve from then, getting sacked because of that is bloody dumb, just what i expect from ntl,
sorry to hear about your mis fortune ntlrebel, all i can say is feck em, let the buggers go under and get bought out by some people who care, if theres any left in this world
Bifty I have plenty to substantiate my viewpoint but I've had my fill of trolls on forums and I've given up trying to substantiate everything to the n'th degree.
.... on the substantiation note i really can't believe the fact that he used another ntl email address when he registered on the website is being used as a reason for his dismisal. I mean how on earth can someone registering on a forum and not using their own email address can be grounds for being sacked. We're talking about someones life here, their career, their livelyhood.
... reason 2. Bringing the company into disrepute. By calling a dept monkies ? How on earth is that bringing a company into disrepute.
... reason 3. By releasing privaleged information. Em the same information was released 6 months earlier in a press release by NTL according to people in the know.
Its just madness and I hope you have the strength to take this to a tribunal.
Scarlett
17-10-2003, 00:03
The e mail address was not registered to me, hence 1 count of gross misconduct. Count 2 was bringing the company name into disrepute and count 3 was the releasing of privelidged information about the new freedom software.
Counts 2 & 3 no way but count 1 I fully hold my hand up to.
Loks like the NTL boys don't like to see certain things, Looks like they just want to spin the whole thing to make it look good. I'm suprised! If that post (and I assume that they specifically pointed to that one at the point that they dragged you into the HR ofice/up against the wall) was did so much harm to the company that it warrented you instant dismissal for Gross misconduct, why is it still there and availible for the world to view ? Surely if it was that much of an issue, they should have removed it...
as for point 2 I think they're doing a perfectly good job of that themselves, maybe they're jealous
Scarlett
17-10-2003, 00:06
Bifty I have plenty to substantiate my viewpoint but I've had my fill of trolls on forums and I've given up trying to substantiate everything to the n'th degree.
.... on the substantiation note i really can't believe the fact that he used another ntl email address when he registered on the website is being used as a reason for his dismisal. I mean how on earth can someone registering on a forum and not using their own email address can be grounds for being sacked. We're talking about someones life here, their career, their livelyhood.
Read: We can find out who you are. You post to our 'ahem' user discussion site as NTL employees or not at all and you tow the company line. as for your Ass, its ours!
Scarlett
It sounds to me like it got blown out of all proportion. Someone on the site obviously flagged it up. Whether it was an employee from that dept, whether it was a mod, whoever. The moderators were then clearly involved in tracing this person and finding out where they lived.
It then snowballed into something that was way beyond what it warranted. Its just sheer madness and stupidity that it went so far as it did and someone has ended up losing their livelyhood because of an innocuous comment and other 'made up at the last minute' reasons have been used to try and lend weight to such an outrageous decision.
Read: We can find out who you are. You post to our 'ahem' user discussion site as NTL employees or not at all and you tow the company line. as for your Ass, its ours!
Scarlett
Exactly mate. It makes you wonder whats going on with our personal details when this happened to ntlrebel. If I post something that people don't like do my whereabouts and account details get traced and something happens to me ?
Scarlett
17-10-2003, 00:12
It sounds to me like it got blown out of all proportion. Someone on the site obviously flagged it up. Whether it was an employee from that dept, whether it was a mod, whoever. The moderators were then clearly involved in tracing this person and finding out where they lived.
It then snowballed into something that was way beyond what it warranted. Its just sheer madness and stupidity that it went so far as it did and someone has ended up losing their livelyhood because of an innocuous comment and other 'made up at the last minute' reasons have been used to try and lend weight to such an outrageous decision.
I suspect that you'll find that Neil and Ben are nothing to do with this one but that is for them to say, however given what has happened and the speed, I'd say that there we're other forces at work. mind you it is an NTL server so the IP wouldn't have been too difficult.
As for something beyond what is warentted, I suggest you look up the term 'Object lesson' and see where that will take us.
I only think the mods were involved because someone would have to tell ntl what the IP was in the first instance. Not that they had any major involvement in it really.
I only think the mods were involved because someone would have to tell ntl what the IP was in the first instance. Not that they had any major involvement in it really.
Since NTL own the boards, I presume they just checked themselves anyway...
They're adding news to the frontpages.. So I assume they have complete access.. Well I dont assume - They do.
This is not the first time that I have heard about ntl getting rid of someone because of their involvement with the site at www.nthellworld.com I think it is silly but then I have also heard about people from ntl accessing peoples accounts with ntl to spy on them and track them. This may be complete rubbish but I have been told this by a number of people who introduced me to these forums when this one was first starting up. I had a look around and wandered off again at the time but everyone has to start somewhere and I wasn't too comfortable with the site until things got cleared up as I thought that this one and the other one were the same but they are not and this is good.
I only think the mods were involved because someone would have to tell ntl what the IP was in the first instance. Not that they had any major involvement in it really.
That depends on when ntl got that IP address, before, after or during Ash G's takeover of the server, hence my previous question.
NtlRebelReborn - don't worry, Grace Welch just loves her gross misconduct disciplineries - just go for the appeal and get ready for that annoying Scottish accent to whinge :)
ian@huth
17-10-2003, 10:08
I would ask the data controller at NTL for a copy of all information that they have regarding yourself, both on computer and paper. They are obliged by the data protection act to supply you with this and it can be quite revealing and sometimes results in them thinking twice about the original decision. If you are considering an appeal or tribunal, make sure that you follow the grievance procedure and that NTL are also abiding by it. It may cost you a tenner but it may be very worthwhile.
I don't know whether Frank has made such a request but if he hasn't it would be a good thing for him to do.
Similarly people with problems with NTL can make a similar request and it will show them whether NTL have made any system notes, etc on the problems they are having.
This should be a flashing warning in big neon signs for NTL employees.....
last week a customer service chap got the sack for mentioning a new product ntl are brining out (tho to be fair, that was company confidential so not all that surprising), so BEWARE, big brother IS watching YOU......
The way to annoy NTL in times like this is to play them at their own game.
For those who don't know, the way NTL carry out things like this is as follows:
You get an initial 'fact finding' interview where a TL or above sits you down and tells you what you've been accused of and if you have anything to say for yourself. After this, depending on the seriousness of the charge you might be suspended with pay while it's investigated, or you might be allowed to carry on with work or whatever, until the date of the official hearing (or a letter which tells you no further action will be taken) where the facts of the matter are outlined again, allong with the decision by NTL.
Note that in the hearing meeting, you are permitted to have a witness of your own choice (a union rep, if you are a mamber) present during the proceedings which of course is fair enough. But what most people don't know is that during the 'fact-finding' meeting, you are not allowed to have anyone in with you, despite NTL being permitted to have whoever they want present. And bear in mind the things you say in this meeting can have an outcome on NTL's decision.
The best way to go about this is to say *nothing* during the fact-finding as they've usually already made their minds up about you at this point. You are quite within your rights to stay silent on the grounds of you not being granted an independant witness of your choice. Similarly NTL cannot take any action against you because of your silence in this meeting.
Unfortunately for NtlRebelReborn this advice may be a little too late, but it's there if anyone else finds themselves in this situation again.
last week a customer service chap got the sack for mentioning a new product ntl are brining out (tho to be fair, that was company confidential so not all that surprising), so BEWARE, big brother IS watching YOU......
However, such information is welcome on here and complete annonymity is assured at ALL times.
It sounds to me like it got blown out of all proportion. Someone on the site obviously flagged it up. Whether it was an employee from that dept, whether it was a mod, whoever. The moderators were then clearly involved in tracing this person and finding out where they lived.
I can catagorically state 100% that neither myself/Ben/Mick gave anyone any details regarding ntlrebel's post, not only that but we have not been asked about him/her either. The first I knew about this was when I read the posts this morning.
Please get your facts straight before you start spouting rubbish.
Ant H/ntlrebel-I am genuinely sorry to hear of your situation, & feel free to contact me if you feel I can be of assistance in any way.
I only think the mods were involved because someone would have to tell ntl what the IP was in the first instance. Not that they had any major involvement in it really.
See my reply above.
Nor-you are talking out of your ar$e-you clearly haven't thought about this at all, you have just presumed & thought you would post it to stir the $hit-grow up.
ian@huth
17-10-2003, 10:42
Thanks for that Russ. Any written details of that fact finding interview must be recorded in writing for it to be accurately recalled at any subsequent disciplinary hearing. If you request copies of your file they are obliged to provide this and they are not allowed to blank out any part of it. Can make very interesting reading. The trouble is is that most people do not know their rights and often do not find them out until it is too late. Russ has some excellent advice there. It is better to say nothing and seek advice before you burn your bridges.
It is better to say nothing and seek advice before you burn your bridges.
Keeping quiet until the hearing should never be seen as an admission of guilt, no matter how much pressure NTL will put on someone as a result. It's just like being questioned by police and wanted to speak to a solicitor first.
However, such information is welcome on here and complete annonymity is assured at ALL times.
lol, with my name? :nono:
besides, this new product is not all that earth shattering, youll find out about it soon enough ;)
lol, with my name? :nono:
Actually if NTL wanted to get arsey about it, they'd still have to prove that the person who posts on here as Mark W is the same person who posts under that name on .com and to do so they'd need your .co.uk detail, such as IP address etc....which of course they'll never get :D
Actually, as an afterthought, people might be interested in this.....
Back in October of last year, a tech in Swansea took a call from someone who wanted pictures removed from her webspace and didn't know how to do it. The tech helpfully showed her how it was done but she wasn't all that clear on the way it was done so he offered to do it for her. She gave him her webspace address only to find the pictures were of her in extremely pornographic photos. The tech promised to remove them for her.....but only after he'd emailed the link to a load of people in Matrix Court including some team leaders and above, some of whom passed them on to others etc....until one person objected and reported it, as they weren't happy about having a link to such material in their work Inbox.
An internal investigation was launched and the original tech in question was expecting to be severely booted and/or sacked for using the company email system for sending out this sort of filth.
It became apparent that if he was to be disciplined for sending it, then so were the others who passed it on as well, but seeing as some of them were team leaders and/or above, the whole incident was whitewashed apart from an email which went around to everyone in matrix Court warning them then any improper use of the email system would be dealt with.
So you can get away with 'breaking the rules' at NTL and be guilty of sackable offences, as long as you are high enough up the corperate ladder :rolleyes:
Lord Nikon
17-10-2003, 11:34
Just a small point here.....
When the fact of NTLRebel being sacked came to light everyone jumped on the bandwagon of assuming Neil or Ben... you all forgot someone.....
Someone who has admin access, but it isn't reported in their sig
Someone who removed Frank from the site
I mean none other than Ash G....
time to look higher up the chain than Neil or Ben.... we have already seen what Ash is prepared to do....
So you can get away with 'breaking the rules' at NTL and be guilty of sackable offences, as long as you are high enough up the corperate ladder :rolleyes:
Yep, you can even run up £17 billion of debt and get away with it if you're high-up enough ... :rolleyes:
There's one rule for them and one rule for everyone else.
Don't take any nonsense, rebel. I can't see anything sackable in what you did. For goodness sake, There's far worse than the word 'monkeys' used about ntl on nthw.com, and Ashg is the ultimate boss of the site. So surely he's complicit in such anti-ntl material being published on the internet?
It shouldn't be too hard to tie ntl up in knots over this.
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 11:45
lol, with my name? :nono:
besides, this new product is not all that earth shattering, youll find out about it soon enough ;)
Its TLA wouldn't be PVR would it?!
And no I don't expect an answer as I would not want my name associated with another termination!
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 11:48
That depends on when ntl got that IP address, before, after or during Ash G's takeover of the server, hence my previous question.
But surely an IP can be spoofed, so the address is no proof of guilt.
Also if the IP comes from a range that is controlled by leasing rather than permanent addressing then it could have been leased to another terminal at the time.
Would these both not be mitigating of their charges.
The problem here is NTLrebel has already admitted posting in that thread on .com :(
handyman
17-10-2003, 12:02
But surely an IP can be spoofed, so the address is no proof of guilt.
Also if the IP comes from a range that is controlled by leasing rather than permanent addressing then it could have been leased to another terminal at the time.
Would these both not be mitigating of their charges.
Shame that the new blue tools give's a ip history for a cable modem. Although I am sure that it was possible to get this before just not as easy.
If he wanted to bring a new product to light or indeed any confidential info, he should have passed it through a mod like I have done in the past. Or posted through a mod/freind on here then there would be no trace.
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 12:04
Actually, as an afterthought, people might be interested in this.....
Back in October of last year, a tech in Swansea took a call from someone who wanted pictures removed from her webspace and didn't know how to do it. The tech helpfully showed her how it was done but she wasn't all that clear on the way it was done so he offered to do it for her. She gave him her webspace address only to find the pictures were of her in extremely pornographic photos. The tech promised to remove them for her.....but only after he'd emailed the link to a load of people in Matrix Court including some team leaders and above, some of whom passed them on to others etc....until one person objected and reported it, as they weren't happy about having a link to such material in their work Inbox.
An internal investigation was launched and the original tech in question was expecting to be severely booted and/or sacked for using the company email system for sending out this sort of filth.
It became apparent that if he was to be disciplined for sending it, then so were the others who passed it on as well, but seeing as some of them were team leaders and/or above, the whole incident was whitewashed apart from an email which went around to everyone in matrix Court warning them then any improper use of the email system would be dealt with.
So you can get away with 'breaking the rules' at NTL and be guilty of sackable offences, as long as you are high enough up the corperate ladder :rolleyes:
Not quite - its a consistency thing. You cannot discipline someone for lateness if the firm has a lateness culture.
You cannot discipline someone for breaking a rule if it is flouted by all.
But you can discipline someone if the company contract says that using the internal email system that way will lead to disciplinery procedures.
See my reply above.
Nor-you are talking out of your ar$e-you clearly haven't thought about this at all, you have just presumed & thought you would post it to stir the $hit-grow up.
Much as I recognize the hard work work and skill in the work of the team on this site I am saddened by the double standards being employed.
I complained about the above post the language and the the phrase "grow up" and no mods comment. Why am I censored for using the phrase "grow up" and people like Nemesis and Neil do.
I am still an NTL customer by the way still using the phone service & dial up.
:eeek:
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 12:12
But you can discipline someone if the company contract says that using the internal email system that way will lead to disciplinery procedures.
Yes but if that leads to termination then you are more than likely to win at an industrial tribunal if if can be proved that you were singled out and that it was the norm for people to use the company email in that way.
So store those offensive jokes your (someones) boss sent you in a nice paper folder at home for the day it comes back to bite you.
Much as I recognize the hard work work and skill in the work of the team on this site I am saddened by the double standards being employed.
I complained about the above post the language and the the phrase "grow up" and no mods comment. Why am I censored for using the phrase "grow up" and people like Nemesis and Neil do.
I am still an NTL customer by the way still using the phone service & dial up.
:eeek:
Gogogo,
I apologise for using that term with you, I too was suprised I wasn't knuckle rapped. But as I said I'm sorry, it won't happen agiain.
Yes but if that leads to termination then you are more than likely to win at an industrial tribunal if if can be proved that you were singled out and that it was the norm for people to use the company email in that way.
So on that basis I guess NTLrebel would be in a better position if more associates stepped forward and called their colleagues 'monkies' then :disturbd:
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 12:26
So on that basis I guess NTLrebel would be in a better position if more associates stepped forward and called their colleagues 'monkies' then :disturbd:
Perhaps he just needs to prove how closely they are related to their ape descendents and as such monkey is a genetic description not an insult.
He could get friends and family to represent that he uses the term all the time to talk about them.
Its TLA wouldn't be PVR would it?!
eh? you wha'?
eh? you wha'?
You originally from liverpool or what' :D
You originally from liverpool or what' :D
lol, i actually have a very plummy southern voice - talking with this silver spoon in me gob can be a real bind you know ;)
This should be a flashing warning in big neon signs for NTL employees.....
last week a customer service chap got the sack for mentioning a new product ntl are brining out (tho to be fair, that was company confidential so not all that surprising), so BEWARE, big brother IS watching YOU......
As I understand it the post refered to changes of an existing product and I do not see how these could be considered 'company confidental' when NTL claims these changes were put into effect starting in April of this year.
The move of support from one office to another may have been 'company confidental' I guess.
As I understand it the post refered to changes of an existing product and I do not see how these could be considered 'company confidental' when NTL claims these changes were put into effect starting in April of this year.
The move of support from one office to another may have been 'company confidental' I guess.
Nope, that was not ntlrebel - this is another chap, talking about a new product ntl is yet to publish......
Nope, that was not ntlrebel - this is another chap, talking about a new product ntl is yet to publish......
oops, my mistake then. appologies
That is absolutely $hite Nor. :afire:
I can catagorically state 100% that neither myself/Ben/Mick gave anyone any details regarding ntlrebel's post, not only that but we have not been asked about him/her either. The first I knew about this was when I read the posts this morning.
Please get your facts straight before you start spouting rubbish.
Ant H/ntlrebel-I am genuinely sorry to hear of your situation, & feel free to contact me if you feel I can be of assistance in any way.
See my reply above.
Nor-you are talking out of your ar$e-you clearly haven't thought about this at all, you have just presumed & thought you would post it to stir the $hit-grow up.
Pretty amazed at that outburst. If that was anyone else shouting that stuff they'd get it censored, seems like you are above the law though. I didn't really understand that so many people had moderator powers of the nthellworld.com website. You need moderator powers in vbullutin forums to see IP addresses, thats why I said moderators. Admittedly I don't know how many people have indescriminate power over the nthellworld.com website anymore without being accountable but its hardly an excuse to give me abuse.
NtlRebelReborn
17-10-2003, 13:40
I can honestly say that I loved working for Ntl. I was part of an excellent team of people who really did want help as best as we could.
I really did feel passionate about the job, passionate enough to post what I did.
I really thought I was making a difference.
{FU}Fubar
17-10-2003, 13:55
this goes to show infact that .com is no longer user controlled but yet NTL controlled, as ashg is going behind the mods/admins back so to say, if the mods hadnt reported the post then it must have been ashg, so its safe to say that .com has now indeed fallen to NTL totaly , sorry neil and co but NTL are putting this across like it is, maybe .com will now have to resort to user info rather than employees as they will be now too scared of posting , WTG NTL you lamers
this goes to show infact that .com is no longer user controlled but yet NTL controlled, as ashg is going behind the mods/admins back so to say, if the mods hadnt reported the post then it must have been ashg, so its safe to say that .com has now indeed fallen to NTL totaly , sorry neil and co but NTL are putting this across like it is, maybe .com will now have to resort to user info rather than employees as they will be now too scared of posting , WTG NTL you lamers
The post need not have been reported by Ash G, there are other eyes watching the sites.
{FU}Fubar
17-10-2003, 14:01
The post need not have been reported by Ash G, there are other eyes watching the sites.
but to get the details then it must have been ashg unless more people have status there, if they do then the mods are just a front in that case
orangebird
17-10-2003, 14:02
Pretty amazed at that outburst. If that was anyone else shouting that stuff they'd get it censored, seems like you are above the law though. I didn't really understand that so many people had moderator powers of the nthellworld.com website. You need moderator powers in vbullutin forums to see IP addresses, thats why I said moderators. Admittedly I don't know how many people have indescriminate power over the nthellworld.com website anymore without being accountable but its hardly an excuse to give me abuse.
Nor, you basically accused Neil and Ben of grassing ntlrebel up - you deserved Neils outburst entirely..... :afire:
but to get the details then it must have been ashg unless more people have status there, if they do then the mods are just a front in that case
Ash G may have been requested to provide the details, but that doesn't mean that he reported it ... remember this is an NTL site, they can request and would expect to receive details of users that are abusive, especially if they are employees.
NTLREBEL, this does not detract from the terrible way that you have been treated, and for the record I can't see why they sacked you, warning maybe.
Nor, you basically accused Neil and Ben of grassing ntlrebel up - you deserved Neils outburst entirely..... :afire:
I'm sure you are being quite objective.... I'll say it again though. All I understood was that vbulletin required a moderator to see the IP address or the email address. I'm not quite sure if the fella had said he'd been traced by IP address rather than email. I just put 2 and 2 together and got the 5 that it must have therefore been a mod who looked up the IP and either passed it on or tracert'd it to find the ubr. Now that I know others have moderator access other than the actual 'moderators' I wouldn't have said that but you can maybe understand why I said it ? in that to get the ip in vbulliten you need to be a moderator.
I'm glad to be wrong, and all it would take is someone being reasonable and explaining nthellworld.com now has other people with moderator access who are not accountable in the same way neil, ben etc are. Thats all it took, it didn't take accusing me of stirring, bypassing the swear filter and giving me abuse.
I just thought they might have passed the IP information along since they were the only people (that I knew of) who could do that. As for thinking that it may have been a moderator who flagged it upto the bosses, was just thinking about the way that vbulliten works and who deals with 'reported posts'.
As for thinking that it may have been a moderator who flagged it upto the bosses, was just thinking about the way that vbulliten works and who deals with 'reported posts'.
It's my understanding that I could ring NTL and report a post on the .com site, without needing to report the post via the vbulletin software.
They are obliged to investigate. Alternatively, it could have been reported by another NTL member of staff, with the same outcome.
NTLRebel was unlucky in the sense that it was reoported, and whoever passed on the IP info was just doing their job.
The outcome is not a good one agreed, but only the reporter and the manager who sacked NTLRebel need to have the conscience.
{FU}Fubar
17-10-2003, 14:19
Ash G may have been requested to provide the details, but that doesn't mean that he reported it ... remember this is an NTL site, they can request and would expect to receive details of users that are abusive, especially if they are employees.
NTLREBEL, this does not detract from the terrible way that you have been treated, and for the record I can't see why they sacked you, warning maybe.
Given his reputation i think he was the one who reported it, seems like typicle behavour from an NTL manager TBH
The outcome is not a good one agreed, but only the reporter and the manager who sacked NTLRebel need to have the conscience.
Aye, quite agree mate.
Given his reputation i think he was the one who reported it, seems like typicle behavour from an NTL manager TBH
I can understand the reaction and comments, and yes I agree with many of them inregard to the .com site. But it's a little harsh to paint ALL NTL managers with that brush Fubar.
We have had unfortunate dealings with a few, and because of that bad taste, we seem to have tainted everyone in NTL. That's a little unfair.
{FU}Fubar
17-10-2003, 14:30
I can understand the reaction and comments, and yes I agree with many of them inregard to the .com site. But it's a little harsh to paint ALL NTL managers with that brush Fubar.
We have had unfortunate dealings with a few, and because of that bad taste, we seem to have tainted everyone in NTL. That's a little unfair.
Bad Managers out number the good ones , but your right it was a little harsh , i retract the last statement but , most are total arse's
:D
edit: heh any chance of getting my post count moved from .com to hear :D cheeky i know but i thought id ask :)
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 14:50
eh? you wha'?
Its Three Letter Abbreviation wouldn't be Personal Video Recorder would it?!
Its Three Letter Abbreviation wouldn't be Personal Video Recorder would it?!
nope..... :)
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 14:58
<snip>
NTLREBEL, this does not detract from the terrible way that you have been treated, and for the record I can't see why they sacked you, warning maybe.
Indeed. Tribunal material this stuff. Did NTL handle this perfectly by the book. Pay a visit to your local CAB, or if you can afford it find an employment lawyer for an hours advice.
We did the latter when my wife was being treated unfairly, it scares the crap out of the employeer, find the most senior peroson in the firm who supports you and use them as your representative in meetings and fight them for details etc.
Did you get appropriate time to prepare for your hearing. Did you get appropriate time to consider and prepare your responses. Did they supply the questions they wanted answered prior to the hearing. I can go on.
NtlRebelReborn
17-10-2003, 15:02
Indeed. Tribunal material this stuff. Did NTL handle this perfectly by the book. Pay a visit to your local CAB, or if you can afford it find an employment lawyer for an hours advice.
We did the latter when my wife was being treated unfairly, it scares the crap out of the employeer, find the most senior peroson in the firm who supports you and use them as your representative in meetings and fight them for details etc.
Did you get appropriate time to prepare for your hearing. Did you get appropriate time to consider and prepare your responses. Did they supply the questions they wanted answered prior to the hearing. I can go on.
Thanks SMHarman. I have an appointment on Monday with an employment lawyer to discuss all these points. Unfortunately to find a senior person to support me, kind of puts their job on the line, but I see your point.
Will keep you all posted. Thanks once again.
A tip for you NTLrebelreborn - it's been put to me that GW will do everything in her power (which is absolutely nothing actually) to try and prevent you having a union rep or other legal representation in these kinds of matters.
A tip for you NTLrebelreborn - it's been put to me that GW will do everything in her power (which is absolutely nothing actually) to try and prevent you having a union rep or other legal representation in these kinds of matters.
and it will be vitally important that you do have someone else there with you.
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 15:27
Thanks SMHarman. I have an appointment on Monday with an employment lawyer to discuss all these points. Unfortunately to find a senior person to support me, kind of puts their job on the line, but I see your point.
Will keep you all posted. Thanks once again.
For NTL to do that would be as bad as the steamroller fasttrack disciplinary process they have already done.
Does NTLs internal procedure not require a very senior person to attend a summary dismissal hearing? Most firms do to protect themselves from subsequent litigation and the resultant publicity. For this reason a final written warning is often the most appropriate course of action.
One question you need to ask yourself is what restitution you want if you succeeed. Would you want you job back? You don't have to answer that to me or this forum, but need to know in your head the answer to that question.
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 15:29
A tip for you NTLrebelreborn - it's been put to me that GW will do everything in her power (which is absolutely nothing actually) to try and prevent you having a union rep or other legal representation in these kinds of matters.
External legal rep is often very difficult to take.
One tip we were given is to take an employment specialist - they are not a lawyer, but know the law back to front. Do you have any friends / partner who know anyone in HR that could take such a role.
Gogogo,
I apologise for using that term with you, I too was suprised I wasn't knuckle rapped. But as I said I'm sorry, it won't happen agiain.
Nice of you, actually, you used it on someone else, not me, I used it against you and I was pounced on by a mod, so I'll apologize for that. I never use abusive language on here nor in everyday life, I think it shows a weakness of character. Though I wouldn't have thought the phrase "grow up" was at all offensive.
My concern is there should be some balance, I for one cannot accept the use of vulgar and abusive language, even though Neil might feel justified in abusing someone, as a mod he should set an example, so his knuckles should be rapped.
Even a teacher of English can have a bad day.
:spin:
:cool:
so his knuckles should be wrapped.
*has a mental image of Knuckles carefully wrapped in festive paper, topped with a litle bow......
(looks at his coffee cup :erm: )
*has a mental image of Knuckles carefully wrapped in festive paper, topped with a litle bow......
(looks at his coffee cup :erm: )Wish I had the nerve to post stuff like that ... but when I pick up other folks' spelling mine usually goes to pot all at the same thyme :D
etccarmageddon
17-10-2003, 15:54
Pretty amazed at that outburst. If that was anyone else shouting that stuff they'd get it censored, seems like you are above the law though. I didn't really understand that so many people had moderator powers of the nthellworld.com website. You need moderator powers in vbullutin forums to see IP addresses, thats why I said moderators. Admittedly I don't know how many people have indescriminate power over the nthellworld.com website anymore without being accountable but its hardly an excuse to give me abuse.
as much as I like Neil, I did think his response was a bit over the top. In your suggestion you did say "I think" which is as much as saying "in my opinion" and in fairness it'd be a fair assumption/opinion that this information could have been obtained via the moderators.
anyway, we now know that there is someone who has access rights called ASHG and this man has already proved this week that he can not be trusted.
zoombini
17-10-2003, 16:12
Hmm, if I was accused of possibly being responsible for someone being sacked then I think I'd be a bit pi$$ed off and swear a bit too.
Why dont y'all give over changing the topic of the thread & discussing Neils annoyance at being one of the accused of the deed & keep it about the sacking problem. Being a mod does not mean that you have to give up all rights to being an ordinary person.
I dont believe the moderators on .com had anything to do with releasing details, it was of course ashg wasnt it. He has access to every single record on their forum now, including those from before Frank sold the site to ntl, which if I recall correctly was not part of the deal and Mr Ryan stated this when he posted on .com once.
Hmm, if I was accused of possibly being responsible for someone being sacked then I think I'd be a bit pi$$ed off and swear a bit too.
Why dont y'all give over changing the topic of the thread & discussing Neils annoyance at being one of the accused of the deed & keep it about the sacking problem. Being a mod does not mean that you have to give up all rights to being an ordinary person.
How many times can I say it. I apologise for making the mistake when I thought the moderators would be needed to obtain the IP of the person posting on the nthellworld.com forum. All it required though was for me to be corrected, not abused and sworn at.
Hmm, if I was accused of possibly being responsible for someone being sacked then I think I'd be a bit pi$$ed off and swear a bit too.
Why dont y'all give over changing the topic of the thread & discussing Neils annoyance at being one of the accused of the deed & keep it about the sacking problem. Being a mod does not mean that you have to give up all rights to being an ordinary person.
That's correct Zoombini, thank you.
However, to anyone who was offended by my remarks (Including Nor), I am sorry.
Please understand that in a situation like this, mud can stick, & making bold sweeping posts like that could easily ruin the trust I have built with NTHW.com over the last 3 years.
I can understand someone jumping to conclusions, & saying "Well Neil/Ben/Mick have the ability to check info-has anyone asked them if they know anything about it?", but no one asked me/us anything, all that happened was that Nor (may have been someone else also-so I'm not blaming Nor solely) said "I think it must have been the mods" & that is neither true nor fair.
Sorry for dragging this off topic, all yours.
Sorry for dragging this off topic, all yours.
Why thank you Neil! You didn't want me moderating you there now did you?? ;)
The misunderstanding has been cleared up, people have apologised, so please can we have this back on topic, fankyoo :)
Why thank you Neil! You didn't want me moderating you there now did you?? ;)I have already moderated his swearing :D
orangebird
17-10-2003, 17:21
as much as I like Neil, I did think his response was a bit over the top. In your suggestion you did say "I think" which is as much as saying "in my opinion" and in fairness it'd be a fair assumption/opinion that this information could have been obtained via the moderators.
.
There was no 'think' involved in the accusation etc - to quote nor - 'The moderators were then clearly involved in tracing this person and finding out where they lived.'....post #43 I think...
:rolleyes:
edit sorry for dragging off topic again - only just read the posts asking to get back on topic...
Nice to drag it back up once it was sorted OB. I corrected what I said there in a further post if you check back. I can only keep apologising for making the mistake for so long, how many more times do you want me to apologise ?
Nice to drag it back up once it was sorted OB. I corrected what I said there in a further post if you check back. I can only keep apologising for making the mistake for so long, how many more times do you want me to apologise ?
You dont, its sorted now. Now, Can we get back on topic? :)
There was no 'think' involved in the accusation etc - to quote nor - 'The moderators were then clearly involved in tracing this person and finding out where they lived.'....post #43 I think...
:rolleyes:
edit sorry for dragging off topic again - only just read the posts asking to get back on topic...
If what Neil says is true, then it's likely Ash G's take over of the server was prompted by ntlrebel's post, not Frank posting his grivence letter.
Graham F
17-10-2003, 19:06
If what Neil says is true, then it's likely Ash G's take over of the server was prompted by ntlrebel's post, not Frank posting his grivence letter.
What utter bollox, if ntl wanted to get information off a site which is hosted on one of their servers they could quite easily do so and have done so as it seems without having ot go to a mod on the site!!
If ntlrebels post is so bad why the **** is it still there to read? Think back to when gooner4life posted on .com abt Broadband Plus that thread the next morning got pulled, why? becasue it was info he/she shouldn't of posted. This has not happened in this case has it?
What happened to ntlrebel and Frank are 2 seperate things and you shouldn't confuse them.
What utter bollox, if ntl wanted to get information off a site which is hosted on one of their servers they could quite easily do so and have done so as it seems without having ot go to a mod on the site!!
If ntlrebels post is so bad why the **** is it still there to read? Think back to when gooner4life posted on .com abt Broadband Plus that thread the next morning got pulled, why? becasue it was info he/she shouldn't of posted. This has not happened in this case has it?
What happened to ntlrebel and Frank are 2 seperate things and you shouldn't confuse them.
You should ask ntl why they are still there to read.
And exactly how do you think ntl would get access to the information?
You think they are dumb enough to let anyone who works there have access to the server?
In the first instance they'd ask the mod team, failing that, they'd have to get clearance from senior management to get control of the machine.
What happened this week? Co-incidence I think not :rolleyes:
SMHarman
17-10-2003, 23:33
[QUOTE=Scooby]<snip>
If ntlrebels post is so bad why the **** is it still there to read? Think back to when gooner4life posted on .com abt Broadband Plus that thread the next morning got pulled, why? becasue it was info he/she shouldn't of posted. This has not happened in this case has it?
<snip>QUOTE]
Can you do me a favour and post a link to it?
Its Three Letter Abbreviation wouldn't be Personal Video Recorder would it?!
Nope
This secret product, soon to be launched isn't a working Interactive service is it :p
I know, I know
:notopic:
This secret product, soon to be launched isn't a working Interactive service is it :p
I know, I know
:notopic:
That's not a secret. It's just "coming soon" :drool:
External legal rep is often very difficult to take.
One tip we were given is to take an employment specialist - they are not a lawyer, but know the law back to front. Do you have any friends / partner who know anyone in HR that could take such a role.
I know that is true about problems taking an external legal adviser into the meeting, I know of a case where a manager in ntl was suspended with full pay whilst they were investigationg his case following a complaint from a junior manager about him. the company kept messing the suspended manager about by cancelling his appointment at the last moment, this happened a few times and I was told that he and his solicitor were on their way to one arranged meeting and it got cancelled. The end result was that ntl made such a big balls up that they paid the guy a claimed 6 figure sum.
The person was boasting about it because he couldn't beleive how stupid the company were by playing right into his hands.
wether the guy deserved his suspension/sacking is not for me to comment. :eeek:
That's not a secret. It's just "coming soon" :drool:
yea, its that broadband plus thingy.....cats already out of the bag on that one....
scrotnig
18-10-2003, 21:22
Personal view? I think what was posted was extremely foolhardy. It was clearly written from the perspective of an employee, appeared to be giving advice in a semi-official capacity, and then went on to insult colleagues.
Did it deserve the sack? I hate to see anyone get the sack, and I particularly hate to see someone who has clearly been highly customer focused (by way of offering help on nthw in their own time) lose their job. This was probably a mistake made in the heat of the moment...though the poster says they stand by the remarks. I feel desperately sorry for the person concerned, but having been in precisely this situation in the past with a past employer, I can honestly say that the outcome was never going to be any different from the moment the send button was pressed. Big companies take a stance on this sort of thing.
The other two 'charges' are possibly irrelevant, it's the 'bringing the company into disrepute' that's the killer...you just don't do it!
I'm not taking sides here...I'm being realistic.
But I don't get it - I often posted on .com about the nuggets in CS who knew nothing about the internet and whenever a customer called up and mentioned the word (even if it was something like "How much does BB cost") they'd just pass them straight through to us, and the worst that happened to me was a TL asked me to take it down.
scrotnig
18-10-2003, 21:27
I think there's a line to be drawn between posting privately and posting as a recognised ntl employee.
Either that or you were lucky/had an understanding tl/etc:D
If it was so bad though why is it still there ? They've said its so serious it warrants someone losing their career for and yet they don't seem to deem it serious enough to remove it from the message board ?
scrotnig
18-10-2003, 21:32
If it was so bad though why is it still there ?
I have no idea...I am not a mod over there. It was just my personal comment on the situation, for what it's worth.
I think there's a line to be drawn between posting privately and posting as a recognised ntl employee.
Either that or you were lucky/had an understanding tl/etc:D
Actually it was one of the Callcentre managers who told me to take it down and then put a note up on the intranet about what kind of image inter-department bickering causes. I was posting as a tech and a mod, they knew who I was.
scrotnig
18-10-2003, 21:35
Actually it was one of the Callcentre managers who told me to take it down and then put a note up on the intranet about what kind of image inter-department bickering causes. I was posting as a tech and a mod, they knew who I was.
I guess it will all depend how far up the chain of command it goes. perhaps a senior director manager saw the recent events...who knows? :rolleyes:
That is correct, and on that basis I would go to tribunal for unfair dismissal. The information is not confidential because it is in a press release. Also, if you were posting in your own time, using a non-CLT account which is umarked as an ntl staff account, then ntl do not have a leg to stand on.
Im sorry to say I agree with Bifta AND this above.
If the information was "Public Knowledge" prior and you can prove that in a tribunal then you have a chance of throwing out the claim EXCEPT for the gross misconduct and disrepute charge.
1. Misconduct for infering that the intelligence of NTL staff is that of a monkey (irrespective that some people may agree) and
2. Disrepute because by doing 1 above you called the name of the company into question.
scrotnig
20-10-2003, 21:24
I guess it will all depend how far up the chain of command it goes. perhaps a senior director manager saw the recent events...who knows? :rolleyes:
Dime Bar! I mean, of course, 'senior director or manager!
I have read this post with intreast, I personally think from a customer point of view it looks worse on the company for letting it get this far in the first place. I dont work for ntl and will be the first to admit i know nothing about them but I get the general feeling from both boards and all forums they treat the staff as simply numbers (these are my personal notes and not meant to offend anyone).
Lord Nikon
27-10-2003, 12:41
The other two 'charges' are possibly irrelevant, it's the 'bringing the company into disrepute' that's the killer...you just don't do it!
How do you bring a company which has 3 protest sites, has been into chapter 11 bankruptcy and is notorious for poor treatment of customers into disrepute though?
Hard to do what they are eminently capable of doing for themselves. and go to great pains to advertise the fact....
How do you bring a company which has 3 protest sites, has been into chapter 11 bankruptcy and is notorious for poor treatment of customers into disrepute though?
Hard to do what they are eminently capable of doing for themselves. and go to great pains to advertise the fact....
And the countless employees and ex-employees that have received very bad treatment, not to mention cases where ntl have paid instead of going to court over "sacking/unfair dismissal cases"
ntl bring themselves into disrepute through their own actions entirely. :Peace:
And the countless employees and ex-employees that have received very bad treatment, not to mention cases where ntl have paid instead of going to court over "sacking/unfair dismissal cases"
ntl bring themselves into disrepute through their own actions entirely. :Peace:
It's one thing in knowing it and another is saying or writing it.
poolking
27-10-2003, 23:24
It is fine speaking your mind on issues, but there is a time when you have to bite your lip and go with what has been said or done.
I have always spoke my mind, but lately I have learned that in certain situations it is better to follow office politics and keep stum, especially if it could cost you your job.
sometimes we have to put our families first and just try to do our best whilst following the company line.teachers quite frequently have to go with the flow even if we do heavily disagree with the direction in which we are being pushed.
such is life.it's always one compromise after another with the occasional small triumph.
incog. :)
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