Cabinet identification

[jimac]

Hi all! :)

This may not necessarily be a VM question, but I am not sure who and where else to ask!

Please bear with me, I know there are some similar threads on here, which I have read through.

I have recently moved home and within my property (side) boundry there is a small grey cabinet which I would like to have removed. Just like everybody else, I want to remove my wall and erect a fence at the edge of my property to increase the useable area of my rear garden. There is already a precedence in the street for doing this and I will go through the proper process of planning application etc.

When in the process of purchasing the property, the owner and estate agent both stated it was a box for cable television/internet.

I have had VM Broadband installed, the engineers said at the time they didn't think it was a VM box, but probably was an old analogue cable box.

I have spent some time googling about and don't know who to speak to regarding removal or relocation of the box (via notice of rescinding the wayleave - if there even is one - or otherwise) before going through planning etc.

Can any of you shed any light on what it is, or point me in the right direction of who to speak to please?

Any help is much appreciated!

cheers!

Jim

[Russ]

In all likelihood the removal of that box will cost somebody money and if it isn't causing a problem, health hazard, an opportunity for 'compensation' then I'd say there's a good chance that whoever owns it is unlikely to want to remove it.

[jimac]

Thanks Russ,

Yes, I appreciate that whoever it belongs to, will probably not want to move/remove it.

More than anything, the two things I want to identify are:-
1. what it actualy is
2. who 'owns' it

If it is a defunct analogue box, I may be willing to foot some of the cost of removal myself, as I understand that moving/removing would be a cost to the 'owner' who have nothing to gain by doing so.

Can anyone shed any light on what it is likely to be please? :)

thanks!

J

[qasdfdsaq]

If it's on your property I'd open it and see.

[bossian]

I've seen them boxes used for street lighting connections and early cable system....spesh in new towns like mk and telford, best answer would be to open it and see....

Ususaly if its power it should be marked with voltage stickers....but thats not always the case

If you open it take a pic, we'll then let you know

[georgepomone]

I couldn't say for sure but the box looks like a control box for mains equipment.Could be street lighting or even a drainage pump in the vicinity of the box. The land it is on looks like street owned property reserved for the box. There is a lamp standard in front of the box on the pavement.If thats the case you won't be able to get it moved.I say this because it is outside of your boundary wall. Of course I can be totally wrong.

[jimac]

OK.... so, I am getting a little forther with this! I will put a new photo up soon.

It is definately on my land, that is not in question.

It appears originally to have been operated by Phillips Television (about 25 years ago - small section in my deed of covenants), who are denying any knowledge of it.

Oddly, the cover is actually open (I was going to open it myself, but there is no need!)and the stuff in there looks quite new. Nearly all markings have been crossed out and there is a "redundant cabinet" sticket in there, what looks like a small 12v power supply and a few bits of coax - it is largely empty. Photo coming up soon.

Thanks for your advice so far! :)

[dave6x]

We have very similar cabinets in this area, a legacy of Andover CableVision they were taken over by NTL and are currently still very much in use by VM. There is one opposite my house that provides the connection for my VM BB!

[jimac]

Hi Dave,

That is what I had originally thought.
In this case, VM have said it isn't thiers (both the engineers that came to site and thier area manager, plus a VM staff member who is on this forum who kindly checked and confirmed where the VM cabinets in my street are - and they are the green ones further along the street as I suspected).

Next step I guess it to check to see if there is any voltage/unplug it and knock on my neighbours doors to see if anything is affected.

[sollp]

Hi Dave,

That is what I had originally thought.
In this case, VM have said it isn't thiers (both the engineers that came to site and thier area manager, plus a VM staff member who is on this forum who kindly checked and confirmed where the VM cabinets in my street are - and they are the green ones further along the street as I suspected).

Next step I guess it to check to see if there is any voltage/unplug it and knock on my neighbours doors to see if anything is affected.

This may have provided an analogue service, instead of Ariels on roofs it was provided by a cable TV system, just the basic channel 1-5, this may not be in use now but whether have a right to remove the cabinet or disconnect the cables is another question. I know of similar disputes where VM cabinets have been sited on a persons boundary of there house but the homeowner was not aware until he recieved his deeds 12yrs later! and is now wanting the cabinet moved off his land, unfortunately after 12yrs it's not as simple as that

---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------

OK.... so, I am getting a little forther with this! I will put a new photo up soon.

It is definately on my land, that is not in question.

It appears originally to have been operated by Phillips Television (about 25 years ago - small section in my deed of covenants), who are denying any knowledge of it.

Oddly, the cover is actually open (I was going to open it myself, but there is no need!)and the stuff in there looks quite new. Nearly all markings have been crossed out and there is a "redundant cabinet" sticket in there, what looks like a small 12v power supply and a few bits of coax - it is largely empty. Photo coming up soon.

Thanks for your advice so far! :)

If there is a 12v PSU in the cab then there will be 240vac feeding it as well, so this will prove to be a costly move as the local DNO will charge anything between £300-600 to removed power

---------- Post added at 20:15 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------

Hi all! :)

This may not necessarily be a VM question, but I am not sure who and where else to ask!

Please bear with me, I know there are some similar threads on here, which I have read through.

I have recently moved home and within my property (side) boundry there is a small grey cabinet which I would like to have removed. Just like everybody else, I want to remove my wall and erect a fence at the edge of my property to increase the useable area of my rear garden. There is already a precedence in the street for doing this and I will go through the proper process of planning application etc.

When in the process of purchasing the property, the owner and estate agent both stated it was a box for cable television/internet.

I have had VM Broadband installed, the engineers said at the time they didn't think it was a VM box, but probably was an old analogue cable box.

I have spent some time googling about and don't know who to speak to regarding removal or relocation of the box (via notice of rescinding the wayleave - if there even is one - or otherwise) before going through planning etc.

Can any of you shed any light on what it is, or point me in the right direction of who to speak to please?

Any help is much appreciated!

cheers!

Jim

That looks like an old BT system with the metal plate on the wall of the house????

Where abouts in the country are you?

[sugarflux]

Hi

I realise this is a very old post but i have exactly the same issue as the op.. A grey box which is on my property and I'm wanting to pull up the paving slabs around it and make a driveway but the box is in my way. I'd be really interested in the outcome of this if you are still around, Jim? or anyone else have any more information?

There is actually a faded sticker on the front of this one saying in case of emergency contact uk power networks so i may have to start there..

~S~

[H0ND0]

Whoever owns it don't let them fob you off.

I bought an house that previously used to be a Post Office on the front ofr which stood a Bt telephone box, OMG was this a real pita at night.

I contacted the the gent who was the prior owner who informed me that BT previously had paid him £5 pa rent on for the phone box.

Armed with this info I contacted BT & told them I wanted removed pronto they said no we've already paid the land owner the contracted premium on this land, I informed them I was now the owner & was going to stop access to the box & I was more than willing to give them their £5 quid back, it was gone within the week. :D

[nodrogd]

Hi

I realise this is a very old post but i have exactly the same issue as the op.. A grey box which is on my property and I'm wanting to pull up the paving slabs around it and make a driveway but the box is in my way. I'd be really interested in the outcome of this if you are still around, Jim? or anyone else have any more information?

There is actually a faded sticker on the front of this one saying in case of emergency contact uk power networks so i may have to start there..

~S~

Virgin boxes don't normally have any external markings, so I think from what you have said the box may be to do with street lighting, or it may be a link box between electrical sections in the area (these are usually underground, but can also be installed surface).

[sugarflux]

Hi all

I haven't actually got any further with this yet - I've emailed UK Power Networks and Virgin Media (as there is one of the new fibre optics green VM cabinets right next to this one and I wondered if this may be providing power to the VM cab) but no response yet. I have, however, taken a photo now so if anyone can shed any further light or make any suggestions please do!

Cheers

~S~

[MrIca]

When you say green VM fibre cabinet.... they don't usually use green cabinets. Are you sure the new green cabinet isn't an Openreach one?

If so, the grey box won't be anything to do with it as the power supply is internal on those.

[Sirius]

When you say green VM fibre cabinet.... they don't usually use green cabinets. Are you sure the new green cabinet isn't an Openreach one?

If so, the grey box won't be anything to do with it as the power supply is internal on those.
The fibre cabinets in ex nynex areas are green, only the newly built MSAN cabinets in ex nynex areas are gray and they have a separate power cabinet at the side

[qasdfdsaq]

All VM cabs in my area are green (ex-TW area). Same for Glasgow.

[spiderplant]

Hi all

I haven't actually got any further with this yet - I've emailed UK Power Networks
Have you tried ringing the number on the cabinet?

I doubt it is anything to do with VM though. The VM cabinets are usually self-powered.

they don't usually use green cabinets.
They do. You must live somewhere unusual.

[Sirius]

Have you tried ringing the number on the cabinet?

I doubt it is anything to do with VM though. The VM cabinets are usually self-powered.


They do. You must live somewhere unusual.

Grey is the new colour for our cabinets but only on new install or when replacing a damaged cabinet. The cabinet in the photo is not one of the new cabinets that i have used on new build projects.

Edit

Looking at that cabinet in the photo and the lock used, i don't seem to recognise that as a type of lock used by us.

[sugarflux]

When you say green VM fibre cabinet.... they don't usually use green cabinets. Are you sure the new green cabinet isn't an Openreach one?

If so, the grey box won't be anything to do with it as the power supply is internal on those.

Honestly - I'm not sure of anything! I was guessing it was as I thought that all the VM cabinets around here (BN) were green but could well be wrong - maybe it is BT? I'm back at the house on Friday so will take some photos of the green cab to post. Funnily enough the green one isn't on streetview so I think it can't have been there longer than a year or so.

~S~

---------- Post added at 09:43 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Grey is the new colour for our cabinets but only on new install or when replacing a damaged cabinet. The cabinet in the photo is not one of the new cabinets that i have used on new build projects.

Edit

Looking at that cabinet in the photo and the lock used, i don't seem to recognise that as a type of lock used by us.

Thanks for replying Sirius but I think you may have mis-understood - I wasn't under the impression that the cab in the picture is a VM cab (it has a UKPN sticker on so I assumed it would be UKPN) but the big 5-foot tall green cabinet next to it (not shown in the picture). I thought that one was VM. I will post a photo on Friday hopefully.

~S~

---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------

UK Power Networks have got back to me this morning with regards an email I sent in regards the grey cabinet. They have passed the message on to the OP&C department (?) for them to investigate the agreement of the box. They will contact me.

Fingers crossed then....

One reply but still got to sort out the green cab too!

~S~

[dave6x]

Grey is the new colour for our cabinets but only on new install or when replacing a damaged cabinet. The cabinet in the photo is not one of the new cabinets that i have used on new build projects.


In this area the new cabinets are green usually replacing the old grey Andover CableVision cabinets

[offmore]

All VM cabs in my area are green (ex-TW area). Same for Glasgow.

and in my area the midland there is a grey one like that near me but it's to do with the power company

[robson689]

OP&C means Operational Property & Consents department.

[sugarflux]

Robson - thanks for the clarification there.

Still heard nothing back from UKPN however here is a piccy of the green cabinet that I need moved. I've searched all round for any id numbers or any clues as to who owns it but have found nothing. I've also heard nothing back from VM - I wonder whether to contact BT as well and find out if this is their cabinet?

~S~

[raging bull]

I wonder if by opening the cabinet and taking an interior photo before reclosing would identify the contents?

[DJSADERS]

to me it looks more like a bt/openreach one, is there a pit in front of it, with a lid saying CATV or BT? Or something similar?

[sugarflux]

to me it looks more like a bt/openreach one, is there a pit in front of it, with a lid saying CATV or BT? Or something similar?

Unfortunately not - no pit / lid or markings of any kind. However - just spoken to BT OpenReach and they said they are currently installing FTTC in the area and it's likely that it's one of theirs. They don't, however, deal with any of these types of enquiries over the phone so I need to make a complaint through the contact form on their website to have it investigated.

I'll do that now and keep you all updated as to any progress.

Once again, thanks everyone for all your help, advice, feedback. This really is an valuable resource :)

~S~

[qasdfdsaq]

Definitely an Openreach FTTC cabinet. Look here:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/03/41.jpg

And here:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/03/42.jpg

And here:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/03/43.jpg

And here:

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2013/03/44.jpg

Box look familiar?

[MrIca]

There's no doubt about it.
It is as I suspected an Openreach fibre cabinet.

The grey cabinet you are talking about has nothing to do with the Openreach cabinet which has an internal power supply connected directly underground to the power network.

[sugarflux]

Cool. So it looks like I need to have two seperate cabinets moved! One from UKPN and one from BTOR.

I've contacted both anyway so I'll let you guys know what happens!

~S~

[MrIca]

Cool. So it looks like I need to have two seperate cabinets moved! One from UKPN and one from BTOR.

I've contacted both anyway so I'll let you guys know what happens!

~S~

Yes but you have no chance of getting the one from Openreach moved. I'm very confident of that shall we say.

It has probably been live for a while so will have many customers connected to it (the cabinet supports up to 168 customers). It has an underground fibre link to it and an underground 240v power link to it plus copper cables going to a nearby standard BT copper cabinet.

Massive job to move it which would also mean downtime for all of those customers. They'd probably flat out refuse to move it even if you paid the thousands of pounds it would cost. The reason I think they'd refuse even if you paid would be because of disruption to the customers.

[sugarflux]

It has only been there a matter of months (around 4-5 i think). It's a pain that they've installed it there in the first place without any permission, planning or even just a polite knock at the door to let anyone know! As far as I'm concerned it's their fault for not checking first that it's an appropriate place to site it, as if they had put it just 8 foot or so up the same wall it wouldn't be a problem, rather than right outside the front door!

I will just have to see how it goes. If not there may have to be an unfortunate accident involving a car with a re-inforced bumper. I'm sure if that happened a few times they might eventually get the message that it's not the ideal location.

~S~

[MrIca]

It has only been there a matter of months (around 4-5 i think). It's a pain that they've installed it there in the first place without any permission, planning or even just a polite knock at the door to let anyone know! As far as I'm concerned it's their fault for not checking first that it's an appropriate place to site it, as if they had put it just 8 foot or so up the same wall it wouldn't be a problem, rather than right outside the front door!

I will just have to see how it goes. If not there may have to be an unfortunate accident involving a car with a re-inforced bumper. I'm sure if that happened a few times they might eventually get the message that it's not the ideal location.

~S~

They only need planning permission on conservation areas.

So therefore they don't really have to let anyone know. It is where it is due to the existing BT ducts in the ground. It has to be near to the duct that the fibre core runs down and within 50 metres of the copper cabinet.

There's probably nowhere more suitable it could have gone.

If it is hit by a car an emergency temporary fibre cabinet on a trailer will be brought in and a new cabinet will be back there within days.

[qasdfdsaq]

Yes but you have no chance of getting the one from Openreach moved. I'm very confident of that shall we say.

It has probably been live for a while so will have many customers connected to it (the cabinet supports up to 168 customers). It has an underground fibre link to it and an underground 240v power link to it plus copper cables going to a nearby standard BT copper cabinet.

Massive job to move it which would also mean downtime for all of those customers. They'd probably flat out refuse to move it even if you paid the thousands of pounds it would cost. The reason I think they'd refuse even if you paid would be because of disruption to the customers.
Nah, it'll "only" cost something like £10,000 to move.

---------- Post added at 22:35 ---------- Previous post was at 22:34 ----------


If it is hit by a car an emergency temporary fibre cabinet on a trailer will be brought in and a new cabinet will be back there within days.
They may have to rethink that one if it gets repeatedly hit by a car until they run out of cabinets... :p:

[papa smurf]

i sometimes arrange for cabinets to be re sited [vm cabs]

the cost to the person wanting the move is any where from £6,ooo-£120,ooo depending on the type of cabinet and amount of re-ducting/cabling reqd ,i have to say that the estimate usually puts people off as they think its all done free of charge .

[Sirius]

i sometimes arrange for cabinets to be re sited [vm cabs]

the cost to the person wanting the move is any where from £6,ooo-£120,ooo depending on the type of cabinet and amount of re-ducting/cabling reqd ,i have to say that the estimate usually puts people off as they think its all done free of charge .

Have planned some of those type of moves and the cost of civils,cabling and out of hours work very quickly ramps up to extreme levels. Last one i did costs for was circa £78000. It never moved in the end and the builder changed the design of his drive way which was cheaper. :shocked:

[qasdfdsaq]

Only costs Openreach on average £30k to install the cabinet in the first place (including all fibre and roadworks and the cabinet cost itself)

[RB2004]

Cool. So it looks like I need to have two seperate cabinets moved! One from UKPN and one from BTOR.

I've contacted both anyway so I'll let you guys know what happens!

~S~

You won't get that moved but you could of opposed the planning application BT put in before they ever installed it there.

Because if I can remember they need planning consent to do that.

[MrIca]

You won't get that moved but you could of opposed the planning application BT put in before they ever installed it there.

Because if I can remember they need planning consent to do that.

Planning permission is only needed in conservation areas.

[Pierre]

Only costs Openreach on average £30k to install the cabinet in the first place (including all fibre and roadworks and the cabinet cost itself)

Which is a bit more than the £10,000 you first suggested.

So to install a new cab ( and if it's VM you'd be building a new chamber too) is circa £30,000

Depending on where you're moving it to you need to re- cable it all.

Discoonect and reconnect

Then remove and make good the existing cab.

I could quite easily see that £30,000 double.

[nodrogd]

Which is a bit more than the £10,000 you first suggested.

So to install a new cab ( and if it's VM you'd be building a new chamber too) is circa £30,000

Depending on where you're moving it to you need to re- cable it all.

Discoonect and reconnect

Then remove and make good the existing cab.

I could quite easily see that £30,000 double.

Not to mention that by relocating a VM cabinet, some of the swept tee's will possibly face the wrong direction. These will all need excavating & correcting prior to any cables being repulled.

[qasdfdsaq]

Which is a bit more than the £10,000 you first suggested.
Yes because to move a cab 10 metres does not cost the same as buying a new cab, and cabling up 5 miles of fibre from the exchange.

To start off you'd save 20K on the equipment inside the cab, because you've already bought it.

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

Not to mention that by relocating a VM cabinet, some of the swept tee's will possibly face the wrong direction. These will all need excavating & correcting prior to any cables being repulled.
I think we've already determined it's not a VM cabinet.

[Mr.Lemming]

With Fibers however you cant just extend as such, it might mean running a new fibe right back from BT's exchange which could be miles off (on the presumption it works somewhat like VM). For the sake of 5 meters I can't see it being worth it.Plus if you crash a car into it i'm sure BT will be on the look out for paint marks etc, With your car sat bashed up on the drive next to it i feel you could end up with a hefty bill.

[qasdfdsaq]

You can extend fibres and in many cases cabinets have several bundles of fibre running past them and one branches off via a joint to the cabinet in question. This shunt can easily be replaced as well.

[MrIca]

With Fibers however you cant just extend as such, it might mean running a new fibe right back from BT's exchange which could be miles off (on the presumption it works somewhat like VM). For the sake of 5 meters I can't see it being worth it.Plus if you crash a car into it i'm sure BT will be on the look out for paint marks etc, With your car sat bashed up on the drive next to it i feel you could end up with a hefty bill.

You can extend it.

And you're right it works like VM more than people realise. BT often don't connect the cabinets to the nearest exchange.

The largest exchanges they refer to as headends and that's where the cabinets are connected to, could be 5 or 10 miles away from the cabinets.

[jimac]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oZXw5REDWXXc5MY16

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oZXw5REDWXXc5MY16


I know this is super old, but after many years, I've been "cajoled" by the wife and one of the neighbors into looking into this again.....

Here's a picture of the cabinet - it has been open like this and an eyesore for everyone for over a decade (well, since before I moved in anyway!).

I now have kids, so am more worried about the safety (or lack thereof!) of it.

Anyone have any ideas of who I should approach/contact about it?

VM say it's not thiers. OpenReach (who are continually in my street doing something, they are right now, about 20m from this box) say it's nothing to do with them.

Any help/thought/input would be very much appreciated!

kind regards

Jim

[Carth]

Go out there at 3am . . disconnect 2 cables . . see who turns up

If nobody appears after a week, tell the local scrap man it's his :D

[pip08456]

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/09/7.jpg

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oZXw5REDWXXc5MY16


I know this is super old, but after many years, I've been "cajoled" by the wife and one of the neighbors into looking into this again.....

Here's a picture of the cabinet - it has been open like this and an eyesore for everyone for over a decade (well, since before I moved in anyway!).

I now have kids, so am more worried about the safety (or lack thereof!) of it.

Anyone have any ideas of who I should approach/contact about it?

VM say it's not thiers. OpenReach (who are continually in my street doing something, they are right now, about 20m from this box) say it's nothing to do with them.

Any help/thought/input would be very much appreciated!

kind regards

Jim

You could try reporting it to your local council as dangerous street furniture.

[jimac]

thanks all. :)

Prior to posting today, I actually did just that! (I didn't expect a response from the Council today, let alone how things have progressed!)

Finally, some action is being taken. :D

I logged a report with West Northants Council...

they told me to call Balfour Beatty...

after a call and some emails back and forth to them (who I must say, were VERY helpful!), Highways were contacted and so were Virgin Media (who previously denied all knowledge of this cabinet) by Balfour Beatty on my behalf.

Within an hour, Highways "made safe" the cabinet by surrounding it with those red "roadworks" gates, VM Engineer turned up about half an hour after and has apparently logged a job to get it dug out entirely.

Fingers crossed the last part actually goes ahead sometime soon. :)
Either way, I'm quite happy.

Thanks for your replies!

[vm_tech]

Probably an old MATV system Virgin may have inherited, clearly not in use anymore, and not sure how great the record keeping was for this type of system as they were probably put in before cable tv as we know it was around