View Full Version : 30M Really rubbish connection. India says everything's ok
hi guys can anyone help
on 30 meg bb in middle of upgrade to 60 meg
today i couldnt watch football online as it kept stalling ran a few speed test and results ranged from 0.5meg to 45.0 meg download
and 0.1 meg to 3.1 meg upload
last few speed tests have been normal at 31.1 meg down and 2.odd upload
but earlier results today and inability to watch anything online made me phone support, india call center wanted me to allow her remote access to my computer i said no wat, so she had me go into super hub and turn off firewall and flood protection...............result is still the same my levels are
Downstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power SNR Docsis/EuroDocsis locked
Locked QAM256 59 55616000 Kbits/sec 307000000 Hz 6.8 dBmV 41.6 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 57 55616000 Kbits/sec 291000000 Hz 7.6 dBmV 42.5 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 58 55616000 Kbits/sec 299000000 Hz 7.7 dBmV 42.3 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 60 55616000 Kbits/sec 315000000 Hz 6.5 dBmV 41.8 dB Hybrid
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power
Locked ATDMA 34 20480 Kbits/sec 27400000 Hz 41.3 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
does this look ok? and any ideas why im dropping to 0.5 meg? and getting bursts of 45.0 meg?
General Maximus
22-04-2012, 17:49
your upstream power is borderline, i think +6 is th max for VM spec but I think the shub can stand up to +8 without a problem. It is one of those "if it aint broken dont fix it" scenarios and the fact that you have already confirmed that you can get max speed shows that it isnt causing youa problem.
The problem you have got dude is network congestion because the network (especially in your area) is massively over subscribed. Weekends as a whole can be diabolical in certain areas and it is compounded by the fact that everyone else wants to get onto youtube, bbc iplayer and whatever else which just makes it worse.
I can guarantee that if you run some speed tests and try to watch stuff online tomorrow morning you wont have a problem. Unfortunately there is no quick cure for it atm. VM are going round the country adding extra capacity for the speed upgrades but once everyone's speed has been doubled you'll just be back to square one again. Doubling your speed to 60mbit isnt going to help you when the speed isnt there to start off with.
If it is an ongoing issue and you watch stuff online regularly I suggest you move over to BT Infinity who are pretty much perfect atm.
india call center wanted me to allow her remote access to my computer i said no wat
They use the corporate version of Logmein, they ask you to go to either www.virginmedia.com/remote or google 123rescue which takes you to the same page and everything is videoed by the system in case of any complaint, you have control at all time and can stop their access instantly if you think they are trying to access anything untoward.
Chrysalis
22-04-2012, 19:44
I would be offended if they wanted remote access for a low speed complaint, they would basically be calling me a lier saying they want to check themselves what I am telling them.
I would be offended if they wanted remote access for a low speed complaint, they would basically be calling me a lier saying they want to check themselves what I am telling them.
Not everyone is experienced enough with computers and getting beyond a browser can be scary for them let alone anywhere else on a computer, they see places they never knew existed such as the control panel.
Remote support is in place for a reason and the above is the reason, it shortens many potentially long calls and is a great asset and tool for all agents.
General Maximus
22-04-2012, 20:25
Not everyone is experienced enough with computers and getting beyond a browser can be scary for them let alone anywhere else on a computer, they see places they never knew existed such as the control panel.
Remote support is in place for a reason and the above is the reason, it shortens many potentially long calls and is a great asset and tool for all agents.
yeah well the thing I am worried about is that they are going to be whacking some keys for the sake of it. India is bad enough as it is, letting them start doing remote support just baffles me. How long do you think it will be before they bring the internet down :LOL:
Seriously though, I cant believe they have had enough training or experience to understand pc hardware, windows configurations and settings and network stuff to accurately diagnose and resolve a fault. For that kind of job I would want an MCDST and there is no way you are telling me VM have got all the call centre staff microsoft certified.
peter it was the rescue 123
thanks for putting my mind at rest
heard too many stories of the india call centres(not vm just in general) selling on bank account details and even transfaring funds etc
craigj2k12
22-04-2012, 20:29
Not everyone is experienced enough with computers and getting beyond a browser can be scary for them let alone anywhere else on a computer, they see places they never knew existed such as the control panel.
your describing offshore tech support there :D
one of my first dealings with vm india call centre they asked me for my full adress to order me a new modem, the woman asked me where england was and that is a true story
craigj2k12
22-04-2012, 20:50
wow.
Ring back and demand to speak to manager in a UK call centre and tell them you refuse to deal with India. They will put you through to UK. Once there you should be through to the awesome ( Glasgow ) call centre. When there ask them to check the SNR on the NETWORK ( not your modem ). It should be over 20, if it is anything less ( in my case mine was 11.5, which denoted a serious issue ) then they HAVE to fix it. The lower the SNR, the quicker they will fix it.
Ring back and demand to speak to manager in a UK call centre and tell them you refuse to deal with India.
All that will happen is that you will get the next person in the queue be that a UK agent or an offshore agent, the best bet is always as soon after 8am as possible.
They removed the direct line when they closed the Albert Dock call centre.:rolleyes:
I would be offended if they wanted remote access for a low speed complaint, they would basically be calling me a lier saying they want to check themselves what I am telling them.
So many customers claim to be experts, its a way for the agents to be sure and not waste peoples time.
Sephiroth
22-04-2012, 22:34
They use the corporate version of Logmein, they ask you to go to either www.virginmedia.com/remote or google 123rescue which takes you to the same page and everything is videoed by the system in case of any complaint, you have control at all time and can stop their access instantly if you think they are trying to access anything untoward.
India is the last place I would allow anyone to take over my computer. They earn tuppence and others have been known to sell bank account information.
I would not want to run that risk even if you record stuff and I find out 24 hours later that I've been raided. Then what? VM come up with the missing dosh straight away? Likely or not it's a known risk.
I'd trust a UK agent though.
India is the last place I would allow anyone to take over my computer. They earn tuppence and others have been known to sell bank account information.
I would not want to run that risk even if you record stuff and I find out 24 hours later that I've been raided. Then what? VM come up with the missing dosh straight away? Likely or not it's a known risk.
I'd trust a UK agent though.
You have control and can see everything they do as they do it with no delay and when they are speaking to a person with no computer skills it brings the call time down dramatically.
Sephiroth
22-04-2012, 22:44
Even so, it's too much of a risk for all the other reasons mentioned. The off-shore call centre is deeply unpopular and VM's Head of Customer Experience needs to take note and do something about it
MovedGoalPosts
23-04-2012, 09:05
Thread has been cleaned up with a number of posts removed. If you wish to continue debating, do so, but without any further unpleasantness.
All that will happen is that you will get the next person in the queue be that a UK agent or an offshore agent, the best bet is always as soon after 8am as possible.
They removed the direct line when they closed the Albert Dock call centre.:rolleyes:
Not in my case, I was very insistent. I think what helped is I have pages of notes since about 2010 when my issues started to arise. I just tell them to look at those notes ( including ones from teh CEO ) and threaten them with OFCOM. Each time without fail I get put through to UK, sure they might be waiting and redialing til they get UK, but the end result is that I don't have to deal with the idiots in India. I also never raise my voice or swear.
So to clarify, it does work you just have to persevere. I have never been treated badly by UK call centres as tehy are trained properly.
Not in my case, I was very insistent.
When was that?
You would be hard pressed for that to happen now.
When was that?
You would be hard pressed for that to happen now.
Two weeks ago, and trust me it is not hard.
Two weeks ago, and trust me it is not hard.
Very lucky to say the least.
Very lucky to say the least.
Maybe a bit lucky, or maybe it is because I know my rights a bit more than the average joe. Also where some people will get rude and angered, I am always calm and sit on the phone for 15 minutes explaining my issue if necessary. I also had already let the gimps in India previously run through all the necessary tests, send me a new superhub and book three engineers. The second was supposed to be a senior, but they sent a normal one. Eventually I got the right one, he picked up the utilization issue and notes were added to my file. It turned out to be a gradually degrading SNR at my UBR in the end.
This took me about 6 weeks of complaining and about £60 worth of credit; just check my recent posts in here. The main issue for people not getting things fixed is they do no persevere; nor are able to understand the technical side which I do once it is explained and therefore are unable to intelligently argue their point and get fobbed off with crap excuses.
Maybe a bit lucky, or maybe it is because I know my rights a bit more than the average joe. Also where some people will get rude and angered, I am always calm and sit on the phone for 15 minutes explaining my issue if necessary. I also had already let the gimps in India previously run through all the necessary tests, send me a new superhub and book three engineers. The second was supposed to be a senior, but they sent a normal one. Eventually I got the right one, he picked up the utilization issue and notes were added to my file. It turned out to be a gradually degrading SNR at my UBR in the end.
This took me about 6 weeks of complaining and about £60 worth of credit; just check my recent posts in here. The main issue for people not getting things fixed is they do no persevere; nor are able to understand the technical side which I do once it is explained and therefore are unable to intelligently argue their point and get fobbed off with crap excuses.
I agree you should be able to speak to someone in the UK if you wish, but it's not your right to.
Maybe a bit lucky, or maybe it is because I know my rights a bit more than the average joe.
It has nothing to do with knowing your rights at all as all technical support agents are classed the same, all you did was moan more than the average caller and the manager then probably rang a few times to get a UK agent before transferring you through.
Not every manager will do that for you as many will just follow process and pass you back into the queue where you would get the next available agent from any call centre.
Nothing wrong with moaning as it got you what you asked for, but the is no legal precedent for it to happen again and it may well never happen again.
broadbandking
24-04-2012, 18:24
Maybe a bit lucky, or maybe it is because I know my rights a bit more than the average joe. Also where some people will get rude and angered, I am always calm and sit on the phone for 15 minutes explaining my issue if necessary. I also had already let the gimps in India previously run through all the necessary tests, send me a new superhub and book three engineers. The second was supposed to be a senior, but they sent a normal one. Eventually I got the right one, he picked up the utilization issue and notes were added to my file. It turned out to be a gradually degrading SNR at my UBR in the end.
This took me about 6 weeks of complaining and about £60 worth of credit; just check my recent posts in here. The main issue for people not getting things fixed is they do no persevere; nor are able to understand the technical side which I do once it is explained and therefore are unable to intelligently argue their point and get fobbed off with crap excuses.
No need to be rude about the agents in India they are not gimps, all agents recieve the smae training however the UK staff you'll find have prob been in the job longer and there isn't the issue with the language barrier.
General Maximus
24-04-2012, 18:32
I disagree, you can have a proper conversation with someone in the UK, discuss things and agree a course of action. When you speak to India you feel like you are talking to a brick wall. No matter what you say to them they give you the same response like they are a programed robot.
A person i knew who was in an ex-ntl area suffered from "walled garden" syndrome, after 4 calls to tech in india over a period of two weeks she phoned me up. After about 10 mins on each call reading through their little manuals they told her she needed a new computer and then hung up, i phoned and insisted to be put through to a uk tech (granted it was about 3 years ago) was refused, then told them what i knew and how badly the the woman had been treated, decided to go through to retentions and said come and take it all out, within 10 mins a uk tech phoned back, and by close of next day the issue had been resolved. That's all you need to know about India.
Sephiroth
24-04-2012, 20:15
No need to be rude about the agents in India they are not gimps, all agents recieve the smae training however the UK staff you'll find have prob been in the job longer and there isn't the issue with the language barrier.
I back the General's view on this. You are VM Staff - so you're not even likely to have to suffer at the hands of the offshore agents - I might be wrong but that's how it seems to me.
Also you make no mention of the prior skills and competencies that are required from the offshore agents before they are hired. It seems to me that the UK agents have more network knowledge than the offshore agents.
Unless VM people can come up with an explanation from their side as to why the offshore call centre is so unpopular with its customers, then they would be wiser to keep quiet (and answer my question about hiring criteria).
Chrysalis
24-04-2012, 20:18
Indeed seph, they do themselves no favours pretending issues dont exist.
General Maximus
24-04-2012, 20:52
if anything you would think it would be the other way around. If I worked on one half of the company (UK call centres) knowing that there was another part which was rubbish (India) I would be pee'd off because I know I would be having to work twice as hard having to deal with the frustrated cusutomers who should have been dealt with properly in the first place.
I back the General's view on this. You are VM Staff - so you're not even likely to have to suffer at the hands of the offshore agents - I might be wrong but that's how it seems to me.
Also you make no mention of the prior skills and competencies that are required from the offshore agents before they are hired. It seems to me that the UK agents have more network knowledge than the offshore agents.
Unless VM people can come up with an explanation from their side as to why the offshore call centre is so unpopular with its customers, then they would be wiser to keep quiet (and answer my question about hiring criteria).
A long time ago I used to be on 2nd line, I took calls from India, so take the experience you have and times that by thirty times a day for about 9 months.
There are poor agents in India as in the UK, but they are trained the same and the requirements for call centre staff in India are far higher than the UK.
I've spoken to agents who struggle to follow a process because they simply don't understand the process, but when questioned on a technical subject they run circles around me, (not hard I hear you cry).
They are unpopular because they are unpopular. The amount of people who don't like them is based on other people building this wall for them to break down before a customer will even listen to them.
Like it or not, the customers who complete feedback and we see the raw data from the feeds, rate the Indians very highly overall.
Personally, its UK agents all the way for me, for the sake of jobs at home.
I back the General's view on this. You are VM Staff - so you're not even likely to have to suffer at the hands of the offshore agents - I might be wrong but that's how it seems to me.
Also you make no mention of the prior skills and competencies that are required from the offshore agents before they are hired. It seems to me that the UK agents have more network knowledge than the offshore agents.
Unless VM people can come up with an explanation from their side as to why the offshore call centre is so unpopular with its customers, then they would be wiser to keep quiet (and answer my question about hiring criteria).
Sheila Burgess said in one of the meeting during the discussions over the closure of the Albert Dock that Virgin Media could not envisage a time that they would get rid of offshore call centres.
Now that was from someone quite high up the chain of command and they obviously have not learned from companies such as Santander who brought back their call centres from offshore because of the outcry from their customers.
Now this has secured 500 plus jobs within the UK and made many Santander customers myself included very happy.
I have spoken to Virgin Media offshore agents as a customer and have had both good and bad experiences from them.
When I worked as a 1st line agent my eyes were opened as to how bad many of the offshore agents were and the many times we had to resolve the issues they caused, sometimes they just outright lied in the notes about what they had done on the account and in many cases they never even entered an account which meant no traces of them could be found and they just blatantly lied to the customer which is why you see posts talking about reboots or the modem being switched off and still the offshore agent acted as if they could see the device with their online tools.
I know that the are a few agents who have been with the company a long time but they are few and far between but customers have no faith in them because of their colleagues.
Also those little questionnaires people receive known as NPS the company always posted the results and in every single category offshore beat the UK call centres hands down and always by a significant margin, which goes to show how stupid the upper management actually are because without a doubt these figures are massaged and I would go as far as to state they are fake but they still produce them and so not think to make them look more competitive.
Any member of Virgin Media staff that cares to refute this knows that they are just covering up for a management that is hiding the truth from its investors because offshore costs a lot less than any uk call centre.
You may have noticed that I have only called them offshore that is because they have Indian, South African and Philippines call centres all offering a similar level of performance, listen to the accent next time you get an offshore agent.
If you want rid of offshore complain loudly and often and possibly like Santander they may eventually listen.
I back the General's view on this. You are VM Staff - so you're not even likely to have to suffer at the hands of the offshore agents - I might be wrong but that's how it seems to me.
Also you make no mention of the prior skills and competencies that are required from the offshore agents before they are hired. It seems to me that the UK agents have more network knowledge than the offshore agents.
Unless VM people can come up with an explanation from their side as to why the offshore call centre is so unpopular with its customers, then they would be wiser to keep quiet (and answer my question about hiring criteria).
I refuse to speak to India, last time I had a speed issue and I said I can't stream I player, they said they don't support I player, I said yes you do then they transferred me to tv faults
No need to be rude about the agents in India they are not gimps, all agents recieve the smae training however the UK staff you'll find have prob been in the job longer and there isn't the issue with the language barrier.
Look, if you had the issues I have had and even been LIED to on numerous occasions by India, then I will slag them off. They do not deserve an ounce of respect from me as they are incapable of doing the job properly. You only need to look at the subseqent replies backing my opinion to see that I am not the only one thinking this way.
Maybe if you were able to see the pages and pages of notes in my file dating back nearly 3 years then you would be able to understand my lack of humility towards them. Indian call centres CAN be good, if given proper training. DELL are a shining example of how to do offshore the right way, as their customer service is second to none.
Look, if you had the issues I have had and even been LIED to on numerous occasions by India, then I will slag them off. They do not deserve an ounce of respect from me as they are incapable of doing the job properly. You only need to look at the subseqent replies backing my opinion to see that I am not the only one thinking this way.
Maybe if you were able to see the pages and pages of notes in my file dating back nearly 3 years then you would be able to understand my lack of humility towards them. Indian call centres CAN be good, if given proper training. DELL are a shining example of how to do offshore the right way, as their customer service is second to none.
No one is questioning your poor experience, if I were here to represent VM I would be apologising and offering to review your account with the motivate of offering you something as an apology.
It just seems unfair for you to group a whole group of people together and insult them, based on a few and yes, even though you've called up 50 times, that's only a small percent of the agents total.
No excuses, the service you have received sounds terrible and if you feel you have been mistreated, I would complain.
---------- Post added at 07:42 ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 ----------
I refuse to speak to India, last time I had a speed issue and I said I can't stream I player, they said they don't support I player, I said yes you do then they transferred me to tv faults
Technically they don't, they support VM Player and your connection, but I player isn't a supported application.
---------- Post added at 07:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
Also those little questionnaires people receive known as NPS the company always posted the results and in every single category offshore beat the UK call centres hands down and always by a significant margin, which goes to show how stupid the upper management actually are because without a doubt these figures are massaged and I would go as far as to state they are fake but they still produce them and so not think to make them look more competitive.
Any member of Virgin Media staff that cares to refute this knows that they are just covering up for a management that is hiding the truth from its investors because offshore costs a lot less than any uk call centre.
.
That's just not true. I'm not basing my opinion on what I'm being told, I'm looking at the customers "opinions", if you want to suggest the customers are lying then fine, I can't question that, but I'm not.
Sephiroth
25-04-2012, 08:55
I think part of the truth of my assertion lies in the degree of freedom that Peter now has as compared with his days as a VM agent.
kwikbreaks
25-04-2012, 09:10
It just seems unfair for you to group a whole group of people together and insult them, based on a few and yes, even though you've called up 50 times, that's only a small percent of the agents total.
I'll admit I've never called India (I prefer the forum for faults and retentions for complaints) so can't comment on their abilities but if someone has called 50 times and hasn't got a good word to say about them I'd suggest that that's not a bad number of samples to base a judgement on.
---------- Post added at 09:10 ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 ----------
I think part of the truth of my assertion lies in the degree of freedom that Peter now has as compared with his days as a VM agent.Please don't tell me he's finally admitted that the Superhub may have some issues.
MovedGoalPosts
25-04-2012, 09:27
On the occasions that I've had to call Virgin Media with problems, and I've had an offshore call centre, the issues have been resolved satisfactorily, both with faults or changes to my services :shrug:
One can encounter difficulties with accents, but then as a southerner, sometime a Scottish or other northern accent it it's strong can throw you.
I suspect the greatest difficulty and frustration is that offshore will adhere quite rigidly to any procedure scripts shown on their screen, whereas a UK agent might be willing to deviate especially if the customer can offer some fault diagnosis of their own. But you can't really criticise someone who follows procedure.
Of course there are too many times when things don't go to plan. We've seen plenty of examples of that over the years on Cable Forum. But for all the posts over which call centre customers speak to, it isn't that clear, at least on here, whether UK or offshore centres actually do have a higher failed resolution rate, or if it is just a perception.
Sephiroth
25-04-2012, 12:29
We are truly criticising VM because their concept of customer service/experience, in the face of objections, is to make the off-shore agents stick rigidly to the script. It shows that these agents do not have sufficient depth of knowledge and that refelects badly on VM.
Milambar
25-04-2012, 14:50
I suspect that its not VM who are making them stick ridigly to their script, but the company that directly employs them. IE. the call center. Unless ofc the call centers are directly owned by VM.
My main objection to the offshore call centers, is quite simply that I can hardly understand a word they say due their accents. Their accents coupled with my hearing difficulties does not make for an overly pleasant experience.
General Maximus
25-04-2012, 14:57
I think part of the truth of my assertion lies in the degree of freedom that Peter now has as compared with his days as a VM agent.
funny you should say that because I was going to say exactly the same thing this morning. We all took the pee out of Peter and Ben before because they were always praising VM, the shub and singing the same tune and it is funny now that Peter has left he has changed his tune.
Sephiroth
25-04-2012, 14:59
funny you should say that because I was going to say exactly the same thing this morning. We all took the pee out of Peter and Ben before because they were always praising VM, the shub and singing the same tune and it is funny now that Peter has left he has changed his tune.
Mon General
I dodn't get the sense that Peter is particularly critical of the SH. But then I don't read everything on here.
That's just not true. I'm not basing my opinion on what I'm being told, I'm looking at the customers "opinions", if you want to suggest the customers are lying then fine, I can't question that, but I'm not.
I do not believe for one nano second that India or any of the offshore locations could ever have beaten any UK based agent without the figures being massaged and everyone I spoke to at the Albert Dock said exactly the same.
The only way they could have got such great scores would be if they were faked by the company, I saw accounts where the Indian agent had stated that he had checked the online tools and got the customer to reboot the modem saw a valid ip and therefore they were now online, all in a call lasting 20 seconds or so which you could see in the footsteps screen, and I am not talking about a single instance here but multiple accounts and multiple users.
You can continue to believe those NPS are real and to be honest as you are working for Virgin Media the is nothing else you could say due to the confidentiality agreement you have signed with regards to posting business sensitive material online.
If offshore are so good why did the likes of Santander bring its call centres back to the UK, that is easy because the customers wanted it to happen as per this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8625343/Bringing-call-centre-jobs-back-from-India-wont-fix-Santanders-customer-satisfaction-woes.html
Santander UK’s chief executive, Ana Patricia Botin, has acknowledged that customers want to speak to someone who understands their problem. “This is what our customers have told us is the most important factor in terms of the satisfaction with the bank, and we have listened to them and decided to bring all of our retail call centres back from India,” she said.
---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------
funny you should say that because I was going to say exactly the same thing this morning. We all took the pee out of Peter and Ben before because they were always praising VM, the shub and singing the same tune and it is funny now that Peter has left he has changed his tune.
I am happy with the performance of my own Superhub and consistently get around 32Mb wired, my gripe is with the company buying committee built equipment where looks outweigh performance and this includes both the VMNG300 and the Superhub.
The Superhub wireless does cover my property but I do not get the speeds that I do from my Edimax router which provides the same coverage but with faster wireless speeds and this can only be due to those rather small antenna that are fitted internally at the back of the device.
General Maximus
25-04-2012, 18:43
Peter you are my new best friend :handshake
Chrysalis
25-04-2012, 19:04
nopanic you missed my feedback then ;)
I filled in one of those forms and whilst I didnt complain about the way offshore dealt with my query I did complain that I couldnt understand them and had to keep asking them to repeat what they saying.
The 2nd bad call I didnt do a form I just went to the CEO office instead since I didnt get any feedback to the original VM form, after the muppet in india deactivated my vmng300 without my permission.
I do not believe for one nano second that India or any of the offshore locations could ever have beaten any UK based agent without the figures being massaged and everyone I spoke to at the Albert Dock said exactly the same.
The only way they could have got such great scores would be if they were faked by the company, I saw accounts where the Indian agent had stated that he had checked the online tools and got the customer to reboot the modem saw a valid ip and therefore they were now online, all in a call lasting 20 seconds or so which you could see in the footsteps screen, and I am not talking about a single instance here but multiple accounts and multiple users.
You can continue to believe those NPS are real and to be honest as you are working for Virgin Media the is nothing else you could say due to the confidentiality agreement you have signed with regards to posting business sensitive material online.
If offshore are so good why did the likes of Santander bring its call centres back to the UK, that is easy because the customers wanted it to happen as per this link.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8625343/Bringing-call-centre-jobs-back-from-India-wont-fix-Santanders-customer-satisfaction-woes.html
---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------
I am happy with the performance of my own Superhub and consistently get around 32Mb wired, my gripe is with the company buying committee built equipment where looks outweigh performance and this includes both the VMNG300 and the Superhub.
The Superhub wireless does cover my property but I do not get the speeds that I do from my Edimax router which provides the same coverage but with faster wireless speeds and this can only be due to those rather small antenna that are fitted internally at the back of the device.
nopanic you missed my feedback then ;)
I filled in one of those forms and whilst I didnt complain about the way offshore dealt with my query I did complain that I couldnt understand them and had to keep asking them to repeat what they saying.
The 2nd bad call I didnt do a form I just went to the CEO office instead since I didnt get any feedback to the original VM form, after the muppet in india deactivated my vmng300 without my permission.
I've signed nothing to say I can't talk about fed back. You're all making this sound like I'm here defending the agents because I have a loyalty or love for them.
You customers rate them, Im just telling you what most customers say.
Pete like it or not unless someone from upper management has created thousands of accounts, with thousands of addresses, etc customers are rating them well.
Maybe they trick them?? I don't know, my view of VM doesn't come from a limited call centre and it certainly doesn't come from details I am fed by anyone in this upper management circle of death you keep talking about.
I know you're still sore and it'll never be right how you lot got treated but I'm not part of any lie, you get honesty or silence from me.
I've signed nothing to say I can't talk about fed back. You're all making this sound like I'm here defending the agents because I have a loyalty or love for them.
You customers rate them, Im just telling you what most customers say.
Pete like it or not unless someone from upper management has created thousands of accounts, with thousands of addresses, etc customers are rating them well.
Maybe they trick them?? I don't know, my view of VM doesn't come from a limited call centre and it certainly doesn't come from details I am fed by anyone in this upper management circle of death you keep talking about.
I know you're still sore and it'll never be right how you lot got treated but I'm not part of any lie, you get honesty or silence from me.
Actually I am not overly bothered by being made redundant as I have been there before and have the t shirt, I know you are not defending the company as such but you all have to abide by the social network posting rules on the intranet which forms part of your contract.
The is no way that Indian call centres could ever beat UK call centres on NPS without some massive input from management as the are to many issues and dislike from the majority of customers and they are not going to change their mind for a survey.
As above the are many accounts were the Indian agent simply lied and wrapped up the call in less than 30 seconds with a reboot and check of a valid ip which is pure lies, I have actually seen these accounts so it is not something that I have made up and senior management at the dock knew about them as they instigated the investigation of those accounts.
Do you honestly believe that NPS from India could beat all UK call centres handsdown as the results they published were always a whitewash as no UK centre even came close.
We even have Sheila Burgess telling people at the Albert Dock that Virgin Media cannot ever see a time without offshore, now a statement like that stinks from such a large company and leads to suspicions about possible back room dealings and we think Murdoch's empire stinks.
Actually I am not overly bothered by being made redundant as I have been there before and have the t shirt, I know you are not defending the company as such but you all have to abide by the social network posting rules on the intranet which forms part of your contract.
The is no way that Indian call centres could ever beat UK call centres on NPS without some massive input from management as the are to many issues and dislike from the majority of customers and they are not going to change their mind for a survey.
As above the are many accounts were the Indian agent simply lied and wrapped up the call in less than 30 seconds with a reboot and check of a valid ip which is pure lies, I have actually seen these accounts so it is not something that I have made up and senior management at the dock knew about them as they instigated the investigation of those accounts.
Do you honestly believe that NPS from India could beat all UK call centres handsdown as the results they published were always a whitewash as no UK centre even came close.
We even have Sheila Burgess telling people at the Albert Dock that Virgin Media cannot ever see a time without offshore, now a statement like that stinks from such a large company and leads to suspicions about possible back room dealings and we think Murdoch's empire stinks.
It's not about what I believe, or my opinion on any centre.
Maybe its the number of customers that just give everything a 10, maybe its customers being tricked into thinking the job was done first time, if you must have a negative.
Customer completes form, form processed, data is fed out. I'm open to the suggestion that we have upper managers who are awesome hackers and have used their skills to get between the fabric of our infrastructure to change data at the source, in fact that would be quite cool ..
but unless this is the case, the data is as simple as how many times has this been ticked, which centre logged the fault.
No much more for me to add really, or we'll be going round in circles.
Chrysalis
26-04-2012, 15:27
another thing I noticed, if I speak to the CEO office or a uk rep I dont get the form.
I 'always' get the form when speaking to an indian rep.
Sephiroth
26-04-2012, 15:46
Chrys
Doesn't that rather prove Pete's point?
Chrys
Doesn't that rather prove Pete's point?
I know that the words posted above with regards Sheila Burgess were not taken out of context and that she was adamant about keeping offshore.
As I above myself and many colleagues do not believe for one second that the wonderful NPS given to India can be real due to the way people regard them and even spoke about them on the phone.
I think all that has happened is the UK based NPS are either ignored or deleted to give India such a high score because the discrepancy between the both has to be seen to be believed and you know it cannot be real.
I've never been asked to rate a UK agent, or retentions person before...? During one complaint call to retentions the woman did state (off the cuff) in response to a comment that i made that a lot of people that get through to her usually have a complaint about India, i swear she said it, then i couldn't draw her on it again after that.
P.S. I cancelled my Amex 15 years ago because they where all Indian call centres and My Home Insurance is with Privalege because they only have UK call centres even though it is more expensive than More Than which only seem to have Indian call centres. Plus we recently moved our current account to The Santander 1 2 3 account and the Personal Banker made a point of saying to us they now only had UK call centers so not to worry we were in good hands.... P.S. I'm not racist, in our beauty salon we employ a girl from India, who is very good at her Job, i've been to her house for tea and she is a lovely girl, but even though she has lived here for 2 years married to an English Indian and speaks good english, she still can't always make herself understood to people, nor them to her.
Ring back and demand to speak to manager in a UK call centre and tell them you refuse to deal with India. They will put you through to UK. Once there you should be through to the awesome ( Glasgow ) call centre. When there ask them to check the SNR on the NETWORK ( not your modem ). It should be over 20, if it is anything less ( in my case mine was 11.5, which denoted a serious issue ) then they HAVE to fix it. The lower the SNR, the quicker they will fix it.
I agree, they are very good up there, very helpful staff. :):)
If i get a rating it goes like this
"engineer was fantastic, but I couldnt understand the agent at the call center. 5/10
If i get a rating it goes like this
"engineer was fantastic, but I couldnt understand the agent at the call center. 5/10
Maybe that's the problem,
The Indians might be getting,
"Call centre was terrible, but technician was fantastic 10/10"
qasdfdsaq
27-04-2012, 01:27
Lol.
Maybe that's the problem,
The Indians might be getting,
"Call centre was terrible, but technician was fantastic 10/10"
Which does not help in the slightest as that can happen as well, they should have separate NPS for technicians and call centres but they go out as one and the customer could give the engineer 10/10but would only give the offshore centre very low scores.
I do not believe that is the only reason for India getting almost perfect scores as above they must be massaged to keep the momentum up for keeping the offshore call centres.
If we sent customers a survey then the majority would say bring call centres back to the UK but that will never happen as the company already knows what kind of result they would get.
Which does not help in the slightest as that can happen as well, they should have separate NPS for technicians and call centres but they go out as one and the customer could give the engineer 10/10but would only give the offshore centre very low scores.
I do not believe that is the only reason for India getting almost perfect scores as above they must be massaged to keep the momentum up for keeping the offshore call centres.
If we sent customers a survey then the majority would say bring call centres back to the UK but that will never happen as the company already knows what kind of result they would get.
You think upper management need to prove India are doing well to anyone ?
If they save money, jobs done. Look how they shut the dock, customer opinion on that made no difference, even protests and the MP of Liverpool asking them not to, still happened.
---------- Post added at 07:19 ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 ----------
another thing I noticed, if I speak to the CEO office or a uk rep I dont get the form.
I 'always' get the form when speaking to an indian rep.
I believe it triggered by a fault call being logged, which CEO probably don't do.
You think upper management need to prove India are doing well to anyone ?
If they save money, jobs done. Look how they shut the dock, customer opinion on that made no difference, even protests and the MP of Liverpool asking them not to, still happened.
---------- Post added at 07:19 ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 ----------
I believe it triggered by a fault call being logged, which CEO probably don't do.
The closure of the Albert Dock call centre was known about since last May and it wasa poorly kept secret and down to cost, India are relatively cheap but in most cases are useless but because of cost the compan blindly carries on, even Santander still struggle over their reputation even though they got rid of India. You get what you pay for and if ou someone who will lie to customers then keep the Indian call centres and they do lie as I have seen the notes and account footsteps.
The closure of the Albert Dock call centre was known about since last May and it wasa poorly kept secret and down to cost, India are relatively cheap but in most cases are useless but because of cost the compan blindly carries on, even Santander still struggle over their reputation even though they got rid of India. You get what you pay for and if ou someone who will lie to customers then keep the Indian call centres and they do lie as I have seen the notes and account footsteps.
You've missed my point.
Chrysalis
27-04-2012, 14:13
VM are in a trap of a false economy and have whats known as failure demand.
In summary the offshore staff have lower per hour costs etc.
However due to customers needing to ring back after a failure to have the problem resolved adds demand to the system so VM's call centre demand is higher as a result of failure, which in turn actually increases costs.
Meanwhile the people who will have decided on the outsourcing likely have to do what masque said with massaging figures etc. to make their original decision seem right.
A economics expert did a lecture on this a few years back.
However looking at VMs recent history VM probably know this but have chosen this path. As they dont have failure demand just for the india reps its also for things like not fixing congestion meaning people will ring back again and again and VM have decided to chew up the costs of manning phones and dishing out compensation instead of cuting back on reasons for people to call.
You've missed my point.
I did not as the Albert Dock was always going to close even if they shut down India as the costs did not help even though we were better than offshore.
A team of people in the higher echelons of Virgin Media have done a deal for offshore and now realise they are stuck with a turkey so they are using other means to polish the dog dirt, but no matter how much you polish dog dirt it will always be dog dirt.
http://www.cavemansman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/golden_turd2.jpeg
I did not as the Albert Dock was always going to close even if they shut down India as the costs did not help even though we were better than offshore.
[/IMG]
No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.
You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.
The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.
Chrysalis
28-04-2012, 13:07
No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.
You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.
The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.
no it would be for the CEO so he things the guy who came up with the offshore brainwave has done a good job. possibly also helps justify it to shareholders.
Sephiroth
28-04-2012, 16:18
No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.
You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.
The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.
I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.
Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.
VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).
But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.
Mick Fisher
28-04-2012, 17:22
I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.
Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.
VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).
But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.
Quite right and obvious for anyone who remained a subscriber for a reasonable period of time.
no it would be for the CEO so he things the guy who came up with the offshore brainwave has done a good job. possibly also helps justify it to shareholders.
But that would suggest a whole department are being told to change things? Surely that would get out ?
I'm tempted to think you're hinting that VM don't care about public opinion - that's how the sentence reads semantically.
Of course the bad press you're referring to is the emotional press about job losses in Liverpool. That's different from the argument that's developed here.
VM internally know what public opinion is about offshore call centres in general; their Head of Customer Experience, Alex Brown, is a VM Forum member and sometimes comes in on something relatively unimportant but NEVER tackles this sort of question (I can see why he'd want to avoid getting embroiled).
But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.
I'm giving my opinion here remember and it's not emotional it's customer experience, economical, etc. The jobs where UK based and removing them but keeping off shore happened regardless of public opinion. Suggesting to me budget before experience .. Although I don't have any figures or insider knowledge.
I don't believe any stats are being changed and I know VM are very much interested in customer opinion. I remember the hoops I had to jump through when I worked with customers. Although a long time ago.
General Maximus
28-04-2012, 17:47
But that just reinforces my opinion that VM don't give a hoot as to customer service and what we think about it.
All to true. Sadly though, very few people are going to leave VM out of principle and maybe pay more on another provider. At the end of the day though we always say money talks and because of the bundles VM offer they know/think nobody is going to leave them £££ is more important to them so they think it gives them a license to get away with crap.
I am hoping that now BT is catching up, and hopefully soon overtake them, they'll be forced to focus on customer service and not just price if they want to set themselves apart.
No, my point wasn't about India vs the Dock.
You are saying VM are changing the figures to make India look better, but why? if VM cared about public opinion surely they wouldn't have closed a site with as much bad press as the Dock caused.
The results of NPS aren't known by the "general" public, so something like this vs the closing of a site costing jobs .. I think you put too much into the NPS results.
They know how much customers hater Indian call centres and considering the amount of money invested over there they have to show reasons for keeping them to the shareholders so excellent NPS is one way of doing that even if the figures are unreal and only exist in someones imagination.
Now you can continue to believe that the sun shines down on the Indian call centres and that every NPS received for them is a perfect 10 hence the high scores.
I remember a year or so back an Indian agent allegedly scored 70 perfect NPS so the company as a prize brought him to the UK to tour the call centres, part of his visit was to sit with agents and take calls to show off his skills, guess what he did not have a clue and that quickly spread around the centre.
One agent even fed back on him to his manager but you must know that none of the feedback generated against offshore agents ever leaves our shores so the agent blissfully carries on giving the same rubbish service to the customers.
When you really think about you come to realise that all Virgin Media are interested in is its image and not its customers, so you will all continue to receive the same level of support and customer service from an offshore agent that you all expect which is to say the least dismal and that the company will continue to turn a blind eye to any complaints just like the three wise monkeys.
I will stay a customer due to the fact I will get less than 1.5Mb with an ADSL line and I hate BT so the is no alternative even if Ifinity arrived here.
They know how much customers hater Indian call centres and considering the amount of money invested over there they have to show reasons for keeping them to the shareholders so excellent NPS is one way of doing that even if the figures are unreal and only exist in someones imagination.
Now you can continue to believe that the sun shines down on the Indian call centres and that every NPS received for them is a perfect 10 hence the high scores.
I remember a year or so back an Indian agent allegedly scored 70 perfect NPS so the company as a prize brought him to the UK to tour the call centres, part of his visit was to sit with agents and take calls to show off his skills, guess what he did not have a clue and that quickly spread around the centre.
One agent even fed back on him to his manager but you must know that none of the feedback generated against offshore agents ever leaves our shores so the agent blissfully carries on giving the same rubbish service to the customers.
When you really think about you come to realise that all Virgin Media are interested in is its image and not its customers, so you will all continue to receive the same level of support and customer service from an offshore agent that you all expect which is to say the least dismal and that the company will continue to turn a blind eye to any complaints just like the three wise monkeys.
I will stay a customer due to the fact I will get less than 1.5Mb with an ADSL line and I hate BT so the is no alternative even if Ifinity arrived here.
Indian are awesome, I personally think they should replace all UK centres with Indian centres.
Maybe you'll use your awesome ability to ignore a post and reply with comments that have no relevance to the point being made and I'll finally get through, saying the opposite to what I have been.
Indian are awesome, I personally think they should replace all UK centres with Indian centres.
Maybe you'll use your awesome ability to ignore a post and reply with comments that have no relevance to the point being made and I'll finally get through, saying the opposite to what I have been.
The point being made is that India are shocking and beyond contempt but Virgin Media just do the 3 wise monkeys impression and continue to argue the point that that are brilliant, if they are so good they should put their money where their mouth is and move every call centre offshore, then the dog dirt would really hit the fan.
You may think otherwise and you are one of the few even amongst Virgin media employees who believe that figures cannot be massaged to make dog droppings appear to be the best chocolate to come out of Switzerland, but a single taste tells you it is dog droppings.
Until the company holds up it hands and admits to India being a failure customers will have a very hard job trusting an Indian agent, many people just hang up when they hear an Indian voice which adds to the offshore call times being low and could well account for many NPS going to them in error.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/7.png
qasdfdsaq
29-04-2012, 15:14
Gigidy.
General Maximus
29-04-2012, 17:45
this is turning into one of those carlwaring threads. Can we just agree that India are pants, everyone hates them and leave it at that.
jempalmer
29-04-2012, 17:47
Sounds like a master plan to me :)
qasdfdsaq
29-04-2012, 17:47
Problem is, VM management don't hate them.
this is turning into one of those carlwaring threads. Can we just agree that India are pants, everyone hates them and leave it at that.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/6.jpg
jempalmer
29-04-2012, 17:50
That may well be so, however, will continuing this thread have any impact on them? Is there not a better line of action we can take?
Not all of the Indian call center staff are bad just the majority of them..
One time I had one call me back NEXT DAY... to make sure the fix to my problem was working as intended and I wasn't having any more issues...
I nearly spat my coffee, now that was great customer service.
Recently my internet went down 5 times in a row between 1 - 4am so being slightly disgruntled at having finished work and having no internet I call up:
Day 1: I'm sorry we cannot deal with 100Mbit customers as we only support 30Mbit customers, I don't want to mess anything up on your account, please call back in the morning.
Internet comes back on about an hour later
Day 2/3: No calls
Day 4: Call up again politely asking WTF is going on, also let him know that my neighbors internet is not working as they are on VM as well..
Follow ALL the stupid troubleshooting steps of rebooting my modem 3 times, making sure my network adapter is set to DHCP (It isn't for the sake of port forwarding and static ips but meh I knew it wasn't that)
Guy says I don't know what the issue is and passes me to the 100Mbit team.. sorry the 30Mbit team that can't deal with 100Mbit customers...
Day 5: Didn't bother...
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