View Full Version : Do you like the new STM
broadbandking
09-04-2012, 15:10
As the current new STM thread has may mixed views of people who like or dislike the new STM that VM have brought it, I throught it would be good to get an idea of who actually likes or dislikes, if you want aswell you can explain why you like or dislike the new STM rules.
As the current new STM thread has may mixed views of people who like or dislike the new STM that VM have brought it, I throught it would be good to get an idea of who actually likes or dislikes, if you want aswell you can explain why you like or dislike the new STM rules.
I had myself STM'd as a test last night to see if it affected my gaming. Yes it did so its a big fat NO from me. It affected my ping and latency. My download was cut to 50 meg which you would think was fine and is but it just ruined my connection and gaming was shocking after it.
broadbandking
09-04-2012, 15:19
I had myself STM'd as a test last night to see if it affected my gaming. Yes it did so its a big fat NO from me. It affected my ping and latency. My download was cut to 50 meg which you would think was fine and is but it just ruined my connection and gaming was shocking after it.
I should of guessed you would be the first to reply lol, your feedback is very welcomed though, what did it effect your ping by?
Old STM
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/tm-table-fu-large.jpg
New STM
http://www.virginmedia.com/images/table_30mb_800px2.jpg
Is not really that much difference between them and the good is about, the download (which most of us are using) is reduce by 50% and not 75%
about the XXL or the pure 100 mb users ... (i know some members may Not agree with me but... ) i believe needs some STM.
i dont mean to argue, personal with some one ... but are some kids now days using the internet with no limits and that affecting not only VM but any network provider
And before i hear sky etc for unlimited usage, bear in mind that if they did not had that policy they would have more stable network and more speed (adsl at present).
Fcct IF get congestion remember speeds will reduce to 15 mb from 40 (it never till now happened because is still new network but never know)
Don't like it, I got 50mb package because it didn't have any limits. I don't even use that much bandwidth but its the principle and if I need to be able to download something I would like to be able to use my speed to do it without getting restrictions on my connection.
morley04
09-04-2012, 16:07
Its rubbish streaming Netflix on xbox after about 5 episodes your capped because your over the limit :@
I downloaded 3 movies this afternoon and I am still running at 30Mb so no issues here.
I should of guessed you would be the first to reply lol, your feedback is very welcomed though, what did it effect your ping by?
My ping on our BF3 server went from a sold 22ms to 50ms reaching intermittently a max of 95ms. Pretty naff if you ask me.
If this is the way forward for my connection then i will be willing to pay for infinity.
... explain why you like or dislike the new STM rules.
Thought it would be obvious :confused:
Those on the previous STM levels will be happy (esp. with double speed as well).
Those previously on no STM will now be unhappy.
I don't like it on principle and that the way they've done it. And those still on 50mb and not upgraded this isn't fair.
But on the other hand, with 100mb you don't need to download much as it's quick enough to make things 'on demand'. Personally by treating it this way 20gb is more than enough for me before STM kicks in, and then going down to 50mb is what I'm paying for and still quick enough by far to really notice too much change, so I can't see any reason for me to complain.
Chrysalis
09-04-2012, 20:23
the poll is too early, as it hasnt been rolled out much yet so people cant make much of a judgement.
My early views are it is set too generous to be of use so will frustrate both those under congestion as well as heavy users. But my area doesnt have it activated yet so dont have the actual affect seen.
SirThomas
09-04-2012, 21:41
As a whole I think it's all well and fine (as far as the limits go), but certainly a little unfair for those that signed up to previously unmanaged services...
One thing I have noticed in the last couple of weeks is that torrents (and yes, I'm one of the few that actually uses it for business reasons) :D seem to go *vastly* slower.
Now, that could be because Virgin are being weird about P2P stuff, or possibly because of my wholly unsuccessful upgrade to 100mb not so long ago.
Strange things be happenin' that's for sure! :)
Tom
sniper007
10-04-2012, 09:32
Don't like it, I got 50mb package because it didn't have any limits. I don't even use that much bandwidth but its the principle and if I need to be able to download something I would like to be able to use my speed to do it without getting restrictions on my connection.
+1
Sums it up for me.
Ken Jude
10-04-2012, 09:59
I wish they'd get their bloody finger out and implement it everywhere as I'm starting to get narked at being STM'd by 75% for using my XL30 (to become 60) in a reasonable way watching a paid streaming service. 50% would be pleasurable in comparison.
AbyssUnderground
10-04-2012, 12:08
As I've always said, if I pay for a speed I expect to get it. If I pay for unlimited, I expect to get it. So as always, a no from me. Even if I don't have VM myself anymore, plenty of friends who I visit do and it affects both them and me.
smallclone
10-04-2012, 12:58
I was traffic shaped yesterday. I have absolutely no diea how.
I am on 10MB. I downloaded a 1GB file at 8.40pm
It didn't finish until about 9.45pm. I must have downlaoded something else through my media player or something, but I have no idea what.
Should there have been a fourth option?
Perhaps "Does not matter to me" .....
I've just checked the STM evening limits for 100MB, and if correct it is 6GB.
I then checked my router logs and the maximum I've downloaded in the past lot of months is 28GB in a single month.
So, going on those figures, I don't think STM will bother me too much. ;)
Mariusmssj
10-04-2012, 15:29
well for 10MB users it's quite bad 3Gb limit and 75% caps =[
craigj2k12
10-04-2012, 15:31
Should there have been a fourth option?
Perhaps "Does not matter to me" .....
I've just checked the STM evening limits for 100MB, and if correct it is 6GB.
I then checked my router logs and the maximum I've downloaded in the past lot of months is 28GB in a single month.
So, going on those figures, I don't think STM will bother me too much. ;)
why have you got 100mb then??
why have you got 100mb then??
Mainly because I don't like to wait for my downloads when I need them.
When I need to download an ISO or two from MS, e.g. latest version 2008 Server R2, it just means the ~5GB download gets to me faster, thats all.
Personally, I would much prefer a monthly cap, rather than a daily STM, but hey ho, that's just me. :)
craigj2k12
10-04-2012, 23:18
fair enough
i dont really mind as i never really download that much within the hours for it to be a problem for me.
If you'renot happy then you can always switch to other providers such as BT (Infinity) or Sky
I'm not too happy basically for two reasons:
1. I subscribed to the 50Mbps package with the understanding that it would be unmanaged. It is now managed, and I am given to option to cancel due to 18 month contract.
2. It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the fact that STM has a tendency to make my pings become very high and unstable - jitter goes through the roof, so it's very frustrating for gaming. I'm not a huge gamer but I'd like to think that I could play online games without an issue.
Truth be told I wouldn't mind so much once the speed doubling as complete as that way regardless I would still be attaining 50Mbps as a minimum, but the pings would still be an issue. If Virgin can find a way to do STM without affecting my pings that would be much better, although I doubt they'll bother doing anything like that any time soon.
I'm currently thinking I'll just go and sign up for BT Infinity once my contract is up. That said, depending on how bad it is (and seeing as how BT Infinity will be offering 80Mbps down and 20Mbps up soon enough) I may consider just getting a second line and paying for it myself. Only downside really would be the installation costs I'd imagine. The upload speed alone is enough to justify it haha. That said, as far as I know the BT line is still intact so it wouldn't be too high surely?
General Maximus
11-04-2012, 11:06
I am downloading 50gb as a test and it was flying along quite happily at ~11300k and then around 26gb ish (not 20) it dropped and is now holding around 6375k/sec
I signed up for 50MB unlimited. A few weeks ago they emailed to say they're going to 'upgrade' me to 100MB plus I've been tickled (trust me I ain't) another 20MB so when they get around to doing my area (between April and July) I will be on 120MB and have the new STM policy. At the moment I'm getting stupid speeds in the evenings which I'm only hoping is due to traffic management as I can actually do something about that. I already have BT ADSL (for gaming) but I'm really considering getting Infinity and giving up on VM altogether. The only thing holding me back is I'm unsure if Infinity is truly unlimited.
AbyssUnderground
11-04-2012, 13:42
I signed up for 50MB unlimited. A few weeks ago they emailed to say they're going to 'upgrade' me to 100MB plus I've been tickled (trust me I ain't) another 20MB so when they get around to doing my area (between April and July) I will be on 120MB and have the new STM policy. At the moment I'm getting stupid speeds in the evenings which I'm only hoping is due to traffic management as I can actually do something about that. I already have BT ADSL (for gaming) but I'm really considering getting Infinity and giving up on VM altogether. The only thing holding me back is I'm unsure if Infinity is truly unlimited.
Apparently it is from reports I've seen. As soon as it comes to my area I'll likely get it instead of my BE connection now they've announced fibre isn't coming to them for at least 18 months.
I don't really mind as I don't download much and even if I get throttled I will still have 15Mb speed. Its just finding out it the STM effects online gaming as my connection it borderline useless for gaming as it is.
Chrysalis
11-04-2012, 14:37
I have to say I have never observed the weird pings issue whilst under STM. Unless of course I am downloading at the same time at the STM rate limit which is to be expected.
broadbandking
11-04-2012, 14:55
My ping is getting worse and my jitter is always been in double figures.
I was tempted to come back to Virgin with the price drop, but seeing these comments and hearing a friends own personal account on AIM, it looks like I'm gonna wait for Infinity to come to my town, instead.
I have to say I have never observed the weird pings issue whilst under STM. Unless of course I am downloading at the same time at the STM rate limit which is to be expected.
I hope it doesn't get any worse as I had NTL about 9 years ago and it was pretty much pathetic so I moved to Sky and BT which worked flawlessly for 9 years although at only 6Mb and then 17Mb after the ADSL 2 upgrade. I moved back to NTL or Virginmedia as it is now known about 14 months ago and had a Tivo fitted about 10 months ago.
So far the TiVo has been so bad its now moved up stairs and we use the VHD in the living room and the internet is awful for online gaming and constantly buffers on youtube.
I'm just waiting to see what speed I will get on the new infinity package
My ping is getting worse and my jitter is always been in double figures.
Second night running that i have been traffic shaped and i have only been surfing. Complaint will be sent in tomorrow first thing.
General Maximus
11-04-2012, 22:12
that's not traffic shaping, it is traffic management. Shaping is throttling p2p traffic and flagging it as low priority so speed is dependable on volume of network traffic. In my area it is excellent so I still get great speeds on torrents and stuff. Traffic management is stm which is what it looks like you hit because that is when they chop your speed in half once you hit a certain limit. I downloaded 50gb on torrents this morning and my speed was reduced to a consistant 6375k/sec. Next time it happens I'll run a speed test and see what it comes out at.
Are you sure you havent been downloading anything? I think the evening thing is 1600-2100 and the limit for us is 10gb. Buuuuuuuuuuuuut, thinking about it now, you might have been screwed. If you are newly upgraded from 50mbit they have admitted that you will still be on the old limits which means you are on the 50mbit threshold of 5gb till you area is upgraded.
95ms its still a stable gaming connection I have had mine 200ms and its still been a stable game before
So far the TiVo has been so bad
Eh, so whats wrong with it?
Rob King
11-04-2012, 23:56
will the 120mb package be unlimited ?
95ms its still a stable gaming connection I have had mine 200ms and its still been a stable game before
HAHA are you kidding me?! I wouldn't class 95ms as stable gaming to be honest. Yeah if you want to play some online strategy or MMO which doesn't rely on latency so much. I don't fancy playing an FPS with rubber banding, and the server/client trying to overcome the latency. Some servers even kick for higher latencies than 150ms as it offers an unfair advantage. Believe it or not 100ms is quite noticeable. 100ms would be like gaming on your iPad with its touch delay.
craigj2k12
12-04-2012, 03:17
will the 120mb package be unlimited ?
dont think so, the STM remains to be published though
that's not traffic shaping, it is traffic management. Shaping is throttling p2p traffic and flagging it as low priority so speed is dependable on volume of network traffic. In my area it is excellent so I still get great speeds on torrents and stuff. Traffic management is stm which is what it looks like you hit because that is when they chop your speed in half once you hit a certain limit. I downloaded 50gb on torrents this morning and my speed was reduced to a consistant 6375k/sec. Next time it happens I'll run a speed test and see what it comes out at.
Are you sure you havent been downloading anything? I think the evening thing is 1600-2100 and the limit for us is 10gb. Buuuuuuuuuuuuut, thinking about it now, you might have been screwed. If you are newly upgraded from 50mbit they have admitted that you will still be on the old limits which means you are on the 50mbit threshold of 5gb till you area is upgraded.
Been on 100 meg from when it went live here.
General Maximus
12-04-2012, 08:36
HAHA are you kidding me?! I wouldn't class 95ms as stable gaming to be honest. Yeah if you want to play some online strategy or MMO which doesn't rely on latency so much. I don't fancy playing an FPS with rubber banding, and the server/client trying to overcome the latency. Some servers even kick for higher latencies than 150ms as it offers an unfair advantage. Believe it or not 100ms is quite noticeable. 100ms would be like gaming on your iPad with its touch delay.
I completely agree. I have been playing the BF series since it first came out and I can defo tell when I am on a server in Russia or a European server with a horrendous ping. For, 60 or below gives me a solid connection and I kick ass, anything over 100 and you can definitely feel it.
I completely agree. I have been playing the BF series since it first came out and I can defo tell when I am on a server in Russia or a European server with a horrendous ping. For, 60 or below gives me a solid connection and I kick ass, anything over 100 and you can definitely feel it.
Maybe you could try our servers, You can get the details at www.nthwgaming.co.uk
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 09:33
As the current new STM thread has may mixed views of people who like or dislike the new STM that VM have brought it, I throught it would be good to get an idea of who actually likes or dislikes, if you want aswell you can explain why you like or dislike the new STM rules.
I cannot vote as it's not a fair one. For example, one can not like the STM but know and agree with the reason for it being there.
Some things are not black and white :)
That said, I chose the third option anyway.
---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 ----------
I downloaded 3 movies this afternoon and I am still running at 30Mb so no issues here.
I can only assume you work for VM :rolleyes: :D
---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------
As I've always said, if I pay for a speed I expect to get it. If I pay for unlimited, I expect to get it.
And you are doing. "Unlimited" has always referred to the amount you can download, not the speed.
---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------
Should there have been a fourth option?
Perhaps "Does not matter to me" .....
I've just checked the STM evening limits for 100MB, and if correct it is 6GB.
I then checked my router logs and the maximum I've downloaded in the past lot of months is 28GB in a single month.
So, going on those figures, I don't think STM will bother me too much. ;)
Oh look. Another VM employee ;)
I cannot vote as it's not a fair one. For example, one can not like the STM but know and agree with the reason for it being there.
Some things are not black and white :)
That said, I chose the third option anyway.
---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 ----------
I can only assume you work for VM :rolleyes: :D
---------- Post added at 09:32 ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 ----------
And you are doing. "Unlimited" has always referred to the amount you can download, not the speed.
---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 ----------
Oh look. Another VM employee ;)
Whats your problem with VM employees, BTW i am an employee and you missed me out :rolleyes:
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 10:29
Whats your problem with VM employees, BTW i am an employee and you missed me out :rolleyes:
I don't have one. You seemed to miss the :rolleyes: <- sarcasm indicator
Whenever anyone says they "don't have a problem" with something to do with VM, the usual comment from those that do is that "must work for VM" because they can't accept that most people don't have the same problem as them :)
Ah well, that's another discussion gone down the pan.
Chrysalis
12-04-2012, 10:50
come on guys 95ms is great for a game of uno on the xbox ;)
Unlimited (http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495/c/346/?s_cid=con_FURL_broadbandusagepolicy) really looks like it is unlimited with Infinity. What's the bet they change that 6 months down the line!
At this point at least, it seems BT infinity is a better product, in terms of "Unlimited"'ness.
£35 a month for "upto" 100mb download and "upto" 19mb upload. (Seems to have changed from 15 to 19mb)
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 13:09
Unlimited (http://bt.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/10495/c/346/?s_cid=con_FURL_broadbandusagepolicy) really looks like it is unlimited with Infinity. What's the bet they change that 6 months down the line!
Just like VM's BB is also unlimited; as in amount not speed, as per the industry standard definition. And, looking at that link, only two out of the five available are, actually, unlimited. The others are more limited than VM :rolleyes:
Just like VM's BB is also unlimited; as in amount not speed, as per the industry standard definition. And, looking at that link, only two out of the five available are, actually, unlimited. The others are more limited than VM :rolleyes:
I guess that's because only two out of the five are actually offered as unlimited the other three have a monthly allowance.
I also guess if you fail to notice such obvious points in an informational page then you're not really worth taking that much notice of.
Daveoc64
12-04-2012, 14:32
Just like VM's BB is also unlimited; as in amount not speed, as per the industry standard definition.
I question how far that concept can be pushed.
e.g:
Unlimited data*
*speed restricted to 5kbps after you download 10GB in any month.
That would be virtually useless, but it seems to fit in with both the law and commonly used advertising.
I guess that's because only two out of the five are actually offered as unlimited the other three have a monthly allowance.
I also guess if you fail to notice such obvious points in an informational page then you're not really worth taking that much notice of.
:)
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 16:50
I guess that's because only two out of the five are actually offered as unlimited the other three have a monthly allowance.
Well yes. And? :confused: Is my point any less valid? No.
I also guess if you fail to notice such obvious points in an informational page then you're not really worth taking that much notice of.
I didn't "fail to notice" anything :rolleyes:
I could have picked you up on your other comment...
What's the bet they change that 6 months down the line!
.. but I didn't bother because there was no point. You may well be right but,. at which time, VM's will still be unlimited.
Oh, and qasdfdsaq, if you have something to say just say it and stop hiding behind the rep system :rolleyes:
LMAO
I'd forgotten about you and how you always have to be right.
Anyways, unlimited Infinity ordered.
Chrysalis
12-04-2012, 17:14
hmm I got weird behaviour as well and i see where sirius and others have come from.
I did a speedtest and after I seem to be throttled or at least on lower priority as my latency/jitter increased right after as if doing a speedtest was been naughty.
hmm I got weird behaviour as well and i see where sirius and others have come from.
I did a speedtest and after I seem to be throttled or at least on lower priority as my latency/jitter increased right after as if doing a speedtest was been naughty.
Glad i was not the only one to notice this. At the moment i am watching my connection like a hawk because i want to see if i get STM'd again for no reason. Present usage for the day totals 2 gig.
This is when i was STM'd last night
Download Failed (1)[/url][/IMG]
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 17:48
I'd forgotten about you and how you always have to be right.
I don't "always have to be right" at all. I just am in this instance.
General Maximus
12-04-2012, 17:57
I don't "always have to be right" at all. I just am in this instance.
:bsmack:
carlwaring
12-04-2012, 18:52
Yeah. I get annoyed when people can't accept that someone else other than them can be right too :p:
Chrysalis
12-04-2012, 19:25
Glad i was not the only one to notice this. At the moment i am watching my connection like a hawk because i want to see if i get STM'd again for no reason. Present usage for the day totals 2 gig.
This is when i was STM'd last night
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share-thumb/06a1252caeb0749c47fa9398d5c0821f.png (http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/06a1252caeb0749c47fa9398d5c0821f.html)
it could be coincidence at time of day but on my graph you will see a large yellow spike (speedtest) but then after the blue and yellow is higher than before the speedtest. I am getting 24-27mbit tho not half speed.
also whats odd is my graph today is looking much better than yesterday and the last few months, clearly some work was done last night when I had that outage but since then I have been unable to max out my download speeds at all, 27mbit the highest and 20mbit this morning.
Overall with everything put together I would say the connection is better tho, less delays starting streams, less jitter and 24mbit is adequate,
craigj2k12
12-04-2012, 19:30
Overall with everything put together I would say the connection is better tho, less delays starting streams, less jitter and [I]24mbit is adequate
for you on 30mbit it is, I imagine 100mbit users wont feel it is :)
Chrysalis
12-04-2012, 19:48
yes I will be asking my neighbour if he is down to this sort of speed or if he has a equal % drop so for him would be about 80mbit.
Can't say I particularly like them. I don't download very often at all, when I do need to occasionally download something the limits are so low the limits are hit in no time. I'm on un-upgraded XL (30Mb). I've probably downloaded a Gb or 2 in the last couple of months, today I want to download a new beta of game ~10Gb and of course it hits the STM almost straight away.
I need someone to correct me here if I'm wrong with my maths, but 30Mb = 3.75Mb/sec download right? and limit is 3500 ? So after barely using my download for x months, I use my connection at its rated value for ~16 mins and I'm a heavy user ? Pretty much 16 mins worth in 3 months = heavy use ? Seriously ?
For me the 50 meg STM kicks in later than 10 GB.
Started a 14.7 GB Steam download at 12:23 PM and STM just kicked in at 1:02 PM after 6MB/S and 13,603 MB downloaded.
General Maximus
29-04-2012, 13:12
Yeah, i noticed it is more like 26gb for 100mbit (during the day)
Hi,
I was on the phone to virgin and apparently they have re written the STM rules for 30mb this is supposed to be it, apparently went live 21st June Dont know what the rules will be for the rest of the packages though
9am to 3pm 4GB speed reduced to 15mb for 1 hour if you carry on downloading and exceed another 5.5GB you are reduced to 9mb for 2 hours
3pm til 00:00 2.8GB reduced to 15mb for an 1 hour if you carry on downloading and exceed 3.6GB your speed is reduced to 6mb for 2 hours
00:00 to 9am Unlimited
Only found out because I kept getting traffic managed between 3 and 4
Paul
broadbandking
26-06-2012, 22:24
I think you have been fed a load of bull mate.
Hi,
That would not surprise where virgin is concerned all they do is lie but I was on the phone try to sort my STM problem out and that what the guy told me.
On testing I get different results to what he told me lol
But thats Virgin for you, I'll probably never get to the bottom of the problem I have with the STM between 3 and 4
kwikbreaks
28-06-2012, 09:17
My observation on 10Mbps in my neck of the woods is that there is no STM at all up until 3:00pm - or at least I've never hit it despite occasional high usage - and that is when the evening STM period starts.
I should get the SH for my self install 60Mbps upgrade today. Given the daytime STM on that is 10GB I wouldn't normally hit it but I will have a try at it sometime soon. I suspect I will see closer to the published STM on that but then again maybe not.
From various posts on here which may or may not be correct the STM is a function of the CTMS, there are a limited set of rules that can be applied, some CMTS models don't have the capacity to hold the full rule set so what you get is not quite what it should be. Probably no STM on 10Mbps until 3:00 when the evening limit kicks in is a good compromise for VM as downloading all day at 10Mbps shouldn't cause a problem unless quite a few do it - that same can't be said for the higher tiers.
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