View Full Version : Superhub Battle of the Hubs - The Prequel
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 03:45
Quick wireless test on the way home this eve... At 280m distance:
Netgear WNDR3700: 0.19 0.59
Standard Superhub: 0.22 0.15
Antenna modded Superhub: 2.90 0.64
BT Home Hub 3: 8.53 2.42
Slightly overpowered DIR-615 : 26.82 7.44
Anyone want to guess what these numbers mean?
Not got a clue but your slightly overpowered dir615 looks good!
Your neighbours won't be doing much surfing with all those wifi networks
kwikbreaks
11-03-2012, 09:25
Anyone want to guess what these numbers mean?
You have far too much time on your hands?
You've got Infinity now so cancel VM and decide which of your routers to use on it then do so.
IMO you are flogging a dead horse discusing the SuperHub as people now have pretty entrenched positions.
For example I consider it to be a POS and will not be surprised by any test results you come up with (I'm confident none will show it in a good light).
OTOH the last posts I read from Masque/Peter_ were still extolling its virtues and proclaiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Considering this was his reply to every post even touching on discussing the wretched thing to the point where I couldn't be bothered reading any more and put him on ignore I doubt that his mind has been changed or ever will be even if you proved the thing was highly radioactive and would explode in 2012 killing everybody in a 100ft radius and start a chain reaction that caused the sun to go supernova.
Actually, no he doesn't state it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
He says it is now standard equipment, and that he, and lots of others, don't have problems.
You are twisting his words and exaggerating what he says to support your view that all shubs are rubbish and VM are in denial about this alleged 'fact', which, IMHO, doesn't help your proposition.
OTOH the last posts I read from Masque/Peter_ were still extolling its virtues and proclaiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Considering this was his reply to every post even touching on discussing the wretched thing to the point where I couldn't be bothered reading any more and put him on ignore I doubt that his mind has been changed or ever will be even if you proved the thing was highly radioactive and would explode in 2012 killing everybody in a 100ft radius and start a chain reaction that caused the sun to go supernova.
Mine works as it should what of it! and so do the majority but you are just a bitter twisted individual who dislikes the thought that anyone has the audacity to actually disagree with you because whatever you post has to be right because you believe it to be right but in most cases you are quite, quite wrong hence you put people who disagree on ignore.
Strangely people are allowed to have a mind of their own and not kowtow to other people on a forum.
Now if yours was the device that you describe above that would be amusing, but then again it just goes to prove that you think you are always correct and for that I pity you https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/8.gifnot.
By the way I now work elsewhere but my Superhub still works the same as it did in February 2011.
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/03/43.png
Not that you will ever read this as you will not be in the wrong.
Less of the bickering and more of the topic please
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 11:39
Quick wireless test on the way home this eve... At 280m distance:
Netgear WNDR3700: 0.19 0.59
Standard Superhub: 0.22 0.15
Antenna modded Superhub: 2.90 0.64
BT Home Hub 3: 8.53 2.42
Slightly overpowered DIR-615 : 26.82 7.44
Anyone want to guess what these numbers mean?
download/upload speeds?
Nah Edinburgh is still stuck on 1.5 upload! Oh wait, he's on bt infinity now
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 11:47
Yeah, anyway...
A little update on the analysis. The above numbers are download/upload speeds through a quick speedtest (or three) and are a bit of an extreme example.
From locations in front of the Superhub, the antenna modded Superhub gave out a 3-6dB stronger signal and was much faster (2.9 vs 0.2mbps). From locations behind the Superhub, the unmodified SH gave out 3-6dB stronger signal and was much faster (16.5 vs 3.9mbps).
The antenna modded Hub also saw the biggest gains from changing antenna polarisation from horizontal to vertical in the client. The unmodded hub saw a small gain in one location and drops in the other two. I believe (yet to check) the SH by default has horizontally polarized antenna which are orientated ~30' off vertical for diversity. This is actually a good design aspect since most laptops don't have repositionable antenna like mine, and by default have horizontally polarized receivers - as do many smartphones and tablets.
Overall the signal strength and throughput come within spitting distance of the Netgear WNDR3700, which is still upper mid-range as far as standalone routers go. Unfortunately though, the BT Home Hub 3 beats both Superhubs on speed and signal strength in all but one location.
All preliminary tests were done on 2.4Ghz. 5Ghz results to follow...
---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 ----------
Nah Edinburgh is still stuck on 1.5 upload! Oh wait, he's on bt infinity now
Hrr hrr, that would also suggest I was lazy enough to conduct wireless tests over the internet instead of locally.
... Oh wait, I actually did :D It was cold, what can I say?
Tim Deegan
11-03-2012, 12:00
Not another shub bashing thread :rolleyes:
It's quite simple really. VM are a business, and they have come up with a good all round modem/wifi router that suits mast peoples needs, and is probably cheap for them to buy (remember the customer gets it free). It wouldn't make good business sense to go for one that is 4x the price, as it would be far more than most people need, and would lower profits.
However for anyone who finds that the wifi router isn't powerful enough, then they have the option to use their own.
If you want the best, then you have to pay for it!!!!!
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 12:05
Not another shub bashing thread :rolleyes:
It's quite simple really. VM are a business, and they have come up with a good all round modem/wifi router that suits mast peoples needs, and is probably cheap for them to buy (remember the customer gets it free). It wouldn't make good business sense to go for one that is 4x the price, as it would be far more than most people need, and would lower profits.
However for anyone who finds that the wifi router isn't powerful enough, then they have the option to use their own.
If you want the best, then you have to pay for it!!!!!
what are you on about, qas is performing quite in-depth tests on the superhub, no-ones bashing it
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 12:07
It's quite simple really. VM are a business, and they have come up with a good all round modem/wifi router that suits mast peoples needs, and is probably cheap for them to buy (remember the customer gets it free). It wouldn't make good business sense to go for one that is 4x the price, as it would be far more than most people need, and would lower profits.
However for anyone who finds that the wifi router isn't powerful enough, then they have the option to use their own.
So how do you explain the BT Home Hub 3 being the best performing of the lot (so far)?
The issue with the Superhub wireless isn't power. I've already said the power is not measurably different from a half dozen other common wireless chips.
Tim Deegan
11-03-2012, 12:11
what are you on about, qas is performing quite in-depth tests on the superhub, no-ones bashing it
I'm not talking about qas. I'm talking about all the shub bashing posts that usually come flying in whenever anyone mentions them.
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 12:13
You said:
Not another shub bashing thread :rolleyes:
And then made various contradictory statements about paying for something better than the Superhub.
Early results show the Superhub is already "as good" as a (RRP) £150 standalone router in many situations. But the BT Hub3 manages to beat both while being free.
Now when I have some more detailed numbers I'll draw up some pretty graphs for your narrow-minded highness, until then, you jumping into every thread about the Superhub bashing Superhub bashers is just baiting them. Poor show. Quit doing it, or quit complaining about a problem you're creating yourself.
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 12:27
I'm not talking about qas. I'm talking about all the shub bashing posts that usually come flying in whenever anyone mentions them.
if you could show me one in this thread that would be great thanks
Tim Deegan
11-03-2012, 12:31
You said:
And then made various contradictory statements about paying for something better than the Superhub.
Early results show the Superhub is already "as good" as a (RRP) £150 standalone router in many situations. But the BT Hub3 manages to beat both while being free.
Now when I have some more detailed numbers I'll draw up some pretty graphs for your narrow-minded highness, until then, you jumping into every thread about the Superhub bashing Superhub bashers is just baiting them. Poor show. Quit doing it, or quit complaining about a problem you're creating yourself.
Here we go again, throwing insults about because someone dares to question your constant moaning about VM.
It's quite obvious that you have carried out these tests just to show that the BT hub it better than the shub.
The fact is, if it serves it's purpose for 99% of people using it, then who cares about what you can do with all sorts of addons and antennas.
You really need to get a life away from radio signals before you fry your brain.
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 12:45
Here we go again, throwing insults about because someone dares to question your constant moaning about VM.
It's quite obvious that you have carried out these tests just to show that the BT hub it better than the shub.
The fact is, if it serves it's purpose for 99% of people using it, then who cares about what you can do with all sorts of addons and antennas.
You really need to get a life away from radio signals before you fry your brain.
your pulling these facts from a crevice in your lower back region
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 13:03
It's quite obvious that you have carried out these tests just to show that the BT hub it better than the shub.
No, I carried out these tests - and will carry out more - because I like facts, and results. Some people make up insults in the face of facts, lie, and change their story like you've just done.
Thankfully I don't have to give a toss about what you think because it's all rubbish and even you don't believe in it yourself.
---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 ----------
your pulling these facts from a crevice in your lower back region
I think everything he says comes from said crevice:
Tim: "Not another superhub bashing thread"
You: "This isn't a superhub bashing thread"
Tim: "Oh I wasn't talking about this thread"
---
Tim: "If you want better you have to pay for it"
Me: "BT Home Hub is better and free"
Tim: *blah blah blah ignores facts throws insults*
---
Tim: "But superhub wireless is crap!"
Me: "Superhub wireless is already as good as a £150 standalone router"
Tim: *Blah blah insult blah* "constant moaning about VM" *blah blah more rubbish blah*
I think we should just ignore the troll from now on, since he's inevitably going to try derail every thread about the Superhub on this forum.
Enough!!
Grow up you lot.
Its simple really.
I found the shub did not do what i wanted it to do in router mode. Therefor as a grown up i made the decision to change to modem mode and use a different router.
And that is what i have done and have not spent every breath i take slagging of the shub to everyone. I have far better things in my life than ranting about a router on a forum :)
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 13:25
but he isnt, hes performing real life tests, as well as making modifications to the hub to see whats wrong with it. I must admit ive given the superhub a fair bit of abuse myself, but thats not what this thread is about, its someone who is giving their own time and money to perform tests and gain facts, you should all be appreciative of qas' efforts
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 13:34
Gaining and sharing information. Tis the prerogativeof a wannnabe academic who doesn't wanna be an academic :)
Not another shub bashing thread :rolleyes:
It's quite simple really. VM are a business, and they have come up with a good all round modem/wifi router that suits mast peoples needs, and is probably cheap for them to buy (remember the customer gets it free). It wouldn't make good business sense to go for one that is 4x the price, as it would be far more than most people need, and would lower profits.
However for anyone who finds that the wifi router isn't powerful enough, then they have the option to use their own.
If you want the best, then you have to pay for it!!!!!I don't see this thread in that way - I think qasi is being pragmatic and unbiased in the way he is reporting his findings.
---------- Post added at 13:36 ---------- Previous post was at 13:34 ----------
Gaining and sharing information. Tis the prerogativeof a wannnabe academic who doesn't wanna be an academic :)
:D
I share your pain/ambition...;)
---------- Post added at 13:39 ---------- Previous post was at 13:36 ----------
if you could show me one in this thread that would be great thanks
You have far too much time on your hands?
You've got Infinity now so cancel VM and decide which of your routers to use on it then do so.
IMO you are flogging a dead horse discusing the SuperHub as people now have pretty entrenched positions.
For example I consider it to be a POS and will not be surprised by any test results you come up with (I'm confident none will show it in a good light).
OTOH the last posts I read from Masque/Peter_ were still extolling its virtues and proclaiming it to be the best thing since sliced bread. Considering this was his reply to every post even touching on discussing the wretched thing to the point where I couldn't be bothered reading any more and put him on ignore I doubt that his mind has been changed or ever will be even if you proved the thing was highly radioactive and would explode in 2012 killing everybody in a 100ft radius and start a chain reaction that caused the sun to go supernova.;)
Gaining and sharing information. Tis the prerogativeof a wannnabe academic who doesn't wanna be an academic :)
My post was not aimed at you BTW, Its aimed at those who just answer every thread that has the super hub mentioned in it with a load of ranting. Its now getting o so boring and predictable
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 13:57
Yes, I'm thinking of posting the actual full data on my blog instead and just linking them here, that way the ranting in between posts won't detract from the actual results.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 14:00
i think it is adminarible qas is testing it because if he doing it right or very least giving the way he benchmarked it and it shows it crap or good then after that it comes down to peopel opinions just now it my opinion it is crap because all i hear is the bad stories but i knwo there is some good that why i start the superhub usage i am trying to be non bias and trying to gie ans many optiosn as possible for both reasons for using and not using but my poll isnt perfect i missed some optiosn that shiuld have been there to make ti even more fairer
i beleive in opinions but i also beleive in testing and polls that are not skewed to yoru own way to say the results are what oyu want goverments and big business do this a lot
kwikbreaks
11-03-2012, 14:52
You are twisting his words and exaggerating what he says to support your view that all shubs are rubbish and VM are in denial about this alleged 'fact', which, IMHO, doesn't help your proposition.I have no agenda concerning the Superhub other than to say what I said - nobody is likely to be swayed by the results of these "tests" which are hardly going to be scientific anyway. The only way to test network throughput is by file transfers on your own LAN not speedtests of an internet service.
If there wasn't a mod ruling about not bickering I'd have plenty more to say about your comment.
Chrysalis
11-03-2012, 14:53
Here we go again, throwing insults about because someone dares to question your constant moaning about VM.
It's quite obvious that you have carried out these tests just to show that the BT hub it better than the shub.
The fact is, if it serves it's purpose for 99% of people using it, then who cares about what you can do with all sorts of addons and antennas.
You really need to get a life away from radio signals before you fry your brain.
you cant prove the 99%.
given the firmware changes done for the superhub its probable that more than 1% reported problems. Its also probable many people have had problems but not reported it. Of course I use the word probable because I cant prove it, I dont claim it to be fact.
---------- Post added at 14:53 ---------- Previous post was at 14:52 ----------
I have no agenda concerning the Superhub other than to say what I said - nobody is likely to be swayed by the results of these "tests" which are hardly going to be scientific anyway. The only way to test network throughput is by file transfers on your own LAN not speedtests of an internet service.
If there wasn't a mod ruling about not bickering I'd have plenty more to say about your comment.
I agree, lan testing should be used in this case and whatever the results noone is going to change their viewpoint either.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 15:05
well when i get one because of the upgrad ei will be detemrine to keep thevmng300 for a while until i really need to go to the shub what i will do is run various tests to determine network speeds over lan, over wireless and to test the wireless relibailty i will post hwo i have conducted the test and i will try make them as fair as possible with hopefully comparsion to other similar devices, once i have posted if someone says oh that favour x or y i willr edo the tests until we can all agreed ok the tests have been fair and here is the result i wont be trying to change people opinions on it only to say here is fair test on it that we all agree on
If you are implying the WNDR3700 was the £150 RRP router... compare it to a E4200 or another brand..
Netgear products are overpriced and of poor quality which is sad considering they used to have some good hardware..
Homehubs are made by Techicolor (Thomson) and while the hardware is good, the software isn't :p
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 15:15
netgear home range is pretty crap now a days but there business level stuff is still top notch i use netgear for nas and other things liek gigabit port switchs and have used when helpign develkop a netwokr lab used one of there fibre and gigabit port switches all top of the range but home stuff and it appears teh shub as crap
Heres my empirical evidence:
Superhub placed in the same location (attic) as a WRT54G and an Asus RT-N16. Not at the same time.
Living room signal (Measure from under a plasma TV):
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak
Garden (patio close to house):
SH = weak
54G = strong
N16 = good
Garden (140ft away from house)
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak
Bottom of street, after using Tomato to boost transmit power (450~ft from house measure on google maps):
SH = none
54G = weak
N16 = depends on weather. Pretty intermittent when it does work so going with none.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 15:55
Heres my empirical evidence:
Superhub placed in the same location (attic) as a WRT54G and an Asus RT-N16. Not at the same time.
Living room signal (Measure from under a plasma TV):
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak
Garden (patio close to house):
SH = weak
54G = strong
N16 = good
Garden (140ft away from house)
SH = none
54G = good
N16 = weak
Bottom of street, after using Tomato to boost transmit power (450~ft from house measure on google maps):
SH = none
54G = weak
N16 = depends on weather. Pretty intermittent when it does work so going with none.
that is fair test for signal strenghs and good comparsions for distance
---------- Post added at 15:55 ---------- Previous post was at 15:53 ----------
i should have stated i would want to do those tests ona shub that is working int eh form it doesnt keep rebooting or no wireless working at all etc, i mean for me doign tests not oyu skie :)
Virgin Media is a business who see fit to supply a device that fits within their business model and works as it should for the vast majority of their customers, it must work otherwise it would have been withdrawn well before now.
They want a device that looks pretty with a Virgin Media name on the front and that is simple for the average customer to configure.
They could and should have gone with a known mainstream supplier but they decided not to or a nudge helped with that decision, that is something we will never know.
The is supposed to be a third version of the Superhub in at least the planning stages after the failure of the second Superhub in testing, this one may have external antenna if they feel it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
At least we now have Modem Mode to allow the use of your own wireless router if you feel that the wireless is not adequate for your requirements.
The is little point in looking wistfully at your VMNG300 as that will never make a return and realistically should never have been bought as they should as above gone with a mainstream manufacturer.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 16:23
Virgin Media is a business who see fit to supply a device that fits within their business model and works as it should for the vast majority of their customers, it must work otherwise it would have been withdrawn well before now.
They want a device that looks pretty with a Virgin Media name on the front and that is simple for the average customer to configure.
They could and should have gone with a known mainstream supplier but they decided not to or a nudge helped with that decision, that is something we will never know.
The is supposed to be a third version of the Superhub in at least the planning stages after the failure of the second Superhub in testing, this one may have external antenna if they feel it is aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
At least we now have Modem Mode to allow the use of your own wireless router if you feel that the wireless is not adequate for your requirements.
The is little point in looking wistfully at your VMNG300 as that will never make a return and realistically should never have been bought as they should as above gone with a mainstream manufacturer.
peter i think i shoudl bang my head off a wall with you and nopanic ;)
i know why they have done it, and i agree it isa good idea
the wirelss as shown above does nto work without having atennas it shouldnt matter what loks nice but mroe what works they have wasted ther eown money on piece of crap to make ti look nice if they had given it atennas it would not have as much probem with wirelss as it does
but saying that as a company that wants there brand to be good and are suppose to be more interested in the cusotmer being happy they should lsiten to there cusotmer, some cusotmer want just sole modem one that has not got bridged router in it, ye vmng3000 is gone but you always use that arguement insted of understanding what people who want it arguement for having it is
they could easily as i have said in another thread provide a buying opiton of a sole modem for cusotmer who ant it and refund the cusotmer when they leave and mak it like the vmng they can nto modify it as it virign propety modify it will rbeach tc
but i really dnt know why i am bother agruung with you as you seem to be brainwashed into virign mindset instead of being nutral and see both sides of the argum,ent i can be yes i am pro against shub but i am willing to prove i mgith eb worng with it but it wont change my opinion on it
Just to check what you typed - did you say
"I am willing to prove I might be wrong with it but it won't change my opinion on it"?
So you state that Peter isn't neutral and won't see both sides of the argument, then you state even if you are proven wrong, it won't change your mind?
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 17:18
Just to check what you typed - did you say
"I am willing to prove I might be wrong with it but it won't change my opinion on it"?
So you state that Peter isn't neutral and won't see both sides of the argument, then you state even if you are proven wrong, it won't change your mind?
fair point there hugh but i dnt think i meant it the way it has came across
if the test prove it wireless and trasner speeds are better than i think it will change my mind and say i am wrong
but it wot change my mind on not liking it and to prefer a modemthat is only a modem
does that make sense? i am nutral in the test i wont bias it to my way if the test show it better than i always say ie it is crap i will stop refering to it as crap and only say you might havea fulty shub
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------
i would jsut liek to give a example of what i mean so hopefully it is clear i would be neutral but still have my own opinion
OK here is two examples
we have say two gigabit switches and prior to the test i claim the cheap one is **** and crap and the netgear one is one i prefer and is much better
say a cheap unknown brand costing say £10 and we have say a netgeat one hat costs say £100
both are 5 port switch
So i test teh throguhtput of say the cheap one and it has a throughput of say 105MB/s and then i test the netgear one and it has a throughput of say 95MB/s, the cheap one correctly auto negetioes teh speed at gigabit full duplex where as the netgear one only auto getnaties to 100mb full duplex but does gigabit full duplex when setting the pc card to that instead of auto
that would be some of the tes ti do i would do other but for this example it is really improtant the test but the fgures, so from the tests i would conclude that teh cheap gigabit switchs outperforms the branded netgear one, so form then on out i would not refer to it as crap and **** i would say perofrmance wise and for price the cheap one is the best option but personally i would chosoe the netgear as that is my opinion but it isnt the best
another example two tvs
so we have two tvs with similar specs
one tv is a lg something another and the other is samsung something another
from testing i find the lg outperforms in a lot the same specs than teh samsung one so from then on out i will recommend and say teh lg is better than sasmsung but my perosnal choice and opinion is to go with samsung since it is abetter brand in my iopnion but test conducted by myself show for similar tv and price the lg one is better
does that explain what i mean by neutral and but not chanign my mind????
but i really dnt know why i am bother agruung with you as you seem to be brainwashed into virign mindset instead of being nutral and see both sides of the argum,ent i can be yes i am pro against shub but i am willing to prove i mgith eb worng with it but it wont change my opinion on it
Did you perchance misread my post as I doubt that I could have been much clearer, try re-reading it and think about what I actually posted and do not skim any of it or you will not understand it.
I have stated that many times and not just in this thread that they made a mistake supplying both the VMNG300 and the Superhub when they could have bought off the shelf quality kit such as Cisco and Motorola devices but they went down a rather strange route and bought those devices instead.
I have stated that my device and the majority on the network actually work as most people expect them to but it could have been so much better with better kit.
Also be aware that I no longer work for Virgin Media and have not done so for 4 weeks.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 17:43
Did you perchance misread my post as I doubt that I could have been much clearer, try re-reading it and think about what I actually posted and do not skim any of it or you will not understand it.
I have stated that many times and not just in this thread that they made a mistake supplying both the VMNG300 and the Superhub when they could have bought off the shelf quality kit such as Cisco and Motorola devices but they went down a rather strange route and bought those devices instead.
I have stated that my device and the majority on the network actually work as most people expect them to but it could have been so much better with better kit.
Also be aware that I no longer work for Virgin Media and have not done so for 4 weeks.
i did read what you said and yes i udnerstand that you said they should go with cisco motorola branded stuff but you do seem to keep saying virgin choice should stand because it suits majority of customer
that bit about it suiting the majority of customer is what i am disagreeing with, they should have two options the sueprhub which will do for most peopple (as i say i plan to test it when i get and be non biased and prove whether it si bad or not, if i get bad results ill then geta replacement and do so until if i get 5 or 6 and the same results then i will nto say it a faulty device it jus thow it peforsm but if it performs better than i expect i will say it and finally admit it is better than i thought and not as crap as i say and will never refer to it as such again, btu that all depend on teh results) but they should offer a branded sole modem no router for cusotmer who dnt wan a superhub and are willign to pay for it but make it lik the vmng it there property so you cant modify it etc and refudn the cusotmer when they leave
if i am still not clear rather than keep this goign here i will pm you and try to explain in more details, as i think you misunderstood me to, (ill admit i might be wrong and i think you might not be as much pro virign as i thought) but i sitll think you sort of jsut take virign side more
i know oyu dnt work for them anymore but that wouldnt mean you couldnt be pro virgin i have defend virign a lot in the past esicpally with regards to the the tv side and the number of channels
---------- Post added at 17:43 ---------- Previous post was at 17:38 ----------
It might not seem it at time but i am always a very fair person always have been i will alawys take both sides of argument into account and see both sides but i am very opinated in what my own personal views are but that should never be seen as i will not be fair just wha ti believe i will never force what i believe onto other i will jsut give my opinion
i did read what you said and yes i udnerstand that you said they should go with cisco motorola branded stuff but you do seem to keep saying virgin choice should stand because it suits majority of customer
No not quite, I said that the majority have no issue with the Superhub which is true, but if we had better branded kit off the shelf as previously 99.9% would be happy, now is that clearer.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 18:13
No not quite, I said that the majority have no issue with the Superhub which is true, but if we had better branded kit off the shelf as previously 99.9% would be happy, now is that clearer.
yes so i apogolise for taking the wrong end of the stick as to wha ti seem to think your opinion was
yes so i apogolise for taking the wrong end of the stick as to wha ti seem to think your opinion was
I knew what kit had been previously tested and was frankly amazed when they chose the VMNG300 over the Cisco and Motorola devices, if they had gone down that route we would never have seen the Superhub let alone the Hub.
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 18:41
Netgear products are overpriced and of poor quality which is sad considering they used to have some good hardware..
Homehubs are made by Techicolor (Thomson) and while the hardware is good, the software isn't :p
The hardware is OK on the 3700, just using it as an example as it's extremely popular.
The Home Hub 3 is made by Huawei, not Thomson.
Further tests will be done on the LAN, once I figure out and fix why the Superhubs keep randomly dropping LAN devices.
If you feel like donating a E4200 I'd be happy to compare it, otherwise you'll have to just deal with what I have to hand (DIR-615, DIR-825, TL-WR2543ND, WNDR3700, and a HH3). I suppose I'll throw the WPN824 in there at some point too.
---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------
I have no agenda concerning the Superhub other than to say what I said - nobody is likely to be swayed by the results of these "tests" which are hardly going to be scientific anyway. The only way to test network throughput is by file transfers on your own LAN not speedtests of an internet service.
Sorry, but wrong. Where the internet service is considerably faster than the connection being tested and consistently maxes out the wireless link, the result would be exactly the same as over the LAN. The internet is afterall architecturally no different from a LAN, only larger.
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 19:00
I knew what kit had been previously tested and was frankly amazed when they chose the VMNG300 over the Cisco and Motorola devices, if they had gone down that route we would never have seen the Superhub let alone the Hub.
in terms of quailty the vmng is better than teh superhub but i agree the cisco or motorola one are bettr still and then add compabilty to the equation, ther few other cotenders out there i wasnt aware before that probally be as good if not better then vmng there adlink one
below are the oen i think virign shoudl have gone with
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=225&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=500
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=316&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=400
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=308&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=67&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=292&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
the reaosn i mainly choose them is for ipv6 support so they would have future proofed themself as it is jsut now i thik they need ot issue update or use cmts ipv4-ipv6 bridge which might be far more expsnive, ive not read the data sheet on them to see details about them more so couldnt say what oen i go for as top and if any the other docis 3 modem in data sheet format are better just stand out because of ipv6 which i wish virign would deploy
talking off which i assume you might know about the trail of it they done do you knwo anytihng about what there plans on ipv6 are
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/ plenty more docsis 3 modem tha toculd be consider and probalyl even mroe not listed there
thanks to craig for that link
---------- Post added at 18:50 ---------- Previous post was at 18:46 ----------
just chek the data sheets of the ones available which there is 3 and none of them offer above 4 channel bonding but probally could have firmware update to improve that
---------- Post added at 19:00 ---------- Previous post was at 18:50 ----------
cisco one does 8 channel bonded so be perfect for modem only and is brandaed and more compabile with majority of ubr cmts but i doubt virgin will ofer it to people who jsut wanta modem
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 19:05
below are the oen i think virign shoudl have gone with
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=225&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=500
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=316&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=400
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=308&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=67&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
http://mydeviceinfo.comcast.net/device.php?tier=-1&devid=292&e=0&d3=1&s=&so=&sc=600
the reaosn i mainly choose them is for ipv6 support so they would have future proofed themself as it is jsut now i thik they need ot issue update or use cmts ipv4-ipv6 bridge which might be far more expsnive, ive not read the data sheet on them to see details about them more so couldnt say what oen i go for as top and if any the other docis 3 modem in data sheet format are better just stand out because of ipv6 which i wish virign would deploy
Arris Touchstone WBM760A only bonds 4 downstreams
as does the Motorola SURFboard SB6120 and the Motorola SURFboard SB6121
the Cisco DPC3008 looks like a decent device though
---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:04 ----------
beat me to it lol
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 19:09
here is th perfect superhub http://biznis.upc.sk/pdf/wireless-router-en.pdf
---------- Post added at 19:09 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------
even though is combined wirels and modem my opinin is i wouldnt want it even though it is cisco brand i want one tha tjsut a modem but as superhub it probally be the best for virign
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 19:11
that looks like it does phone over coax which isnt great for VM, but something along those lines would be great
The hardware is OK on the 3700, just using it as an example as it's extremely popular.
The Home Hub 3 is made by Huawei, not Thomson.
Further tests will be done on the LAN, once I figure out and fix why the Superhubs keep randomly dropping LAN devices.
If you feel like donating a E4200 I'd be happy to compare it, otherwise you'll have to just deal with what I have to hand (DIR-615, DIR-825, TL-WR2543ND, WNDR3700, and a HH3). I suppose I'll throw the WPN824 in there at some point too.
---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:27 ----------
Sorry, but wrong. Where the internet service is considerably faster than the connection being tested and consistently maxes out the wireless link, the result would be exactly the same as over the LAN. The internet is afterall architecturally no different from a LAN, only larger.
OH they changed suppliers for the 3rd home hub? Wow wasn't aware of that, Huawei gear isnt bad though tbh
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 19:19
Yeah, Huawei supply both the VDSL2 DSLAM in the cabs, the VDSL2 modem and the Home Hub 3 (though the first two vary by location, if you're on a non Huawei cab you get non Huawei modem)
Interestingly BT are keeping to the same manufacturer of modems as their VDSL2 DSLAMs
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 19:19
that looks like it does phone over coax which isnt great for VM, but something along those lines would be great
oh i am sure they woukd disable it lol look at ther esuper superhub lol but wouldnt that be a voip solution if so i thought that be great marketing tool also get a voip conection yeah i know it hit there lien rental but people rarely use it or think it mroe expensive so it be liek pr stunt yeah we could get a line rental rom use and call package but oyu can also use the voip for ree to degree not sure how it works with regards to chagres how nice are we that hwo they could market it
The Home Hub 3 is made by Huawei, not Thomson.
That was the one that failed and was never heard from again.
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 19:23
yeah its for plugging in SIP phones, so theres more bandwidth VM would have to sacrifice, and they aint got much of that going spare
---------- Post added at 19:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:22 ----------
That was the one that failed and was never heard from again.
thats the one thats currently being used, marketed, sold, what planet are you on?
qasdfdsaq
11-03-2012, 19:23
That was the one that failed and was never heard from again.
Eh? I have one right here...
thats the one thats currently being used, marketed, sold, what planet are you on?
They never had them 4 weeks ago so this planet obviously.
---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------
Eh? I have one right here...
What differences are the and what does the MAC address start with as the Netgear version started with A0.
Peter think you got confused here. The BT Hub 3 is by Huawei
Peter think you got confused here. The BT Hub 3 is by Huawei
Thank you Stephen, I noticed above.;)
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 20:10
stragnely i cant find a motorola stand alone modem that bond 8 channels or wirelss embedded one either
stragnely i cant find a motorola stand alone modem that bond 8 channels or wirelss embedded one either
Motorola SURFboard Gateway SBG6580 DOCSIS 3.0 Wireless Cable Modem (http://www.amazon.com/Motorola-SURFboard-Gateway-SBG6580-Wireless/dp/B0040IUI46)
Andrewcrawford23
11-03-2012, 20:22
thansk peter you got one for a modem only iue no stnadaloen no wirless inbuilt or wired rotuer
yeah its for plugging in SIP phones, so theres more bandwidth VM would have to sacrifice, and they aint got much of that going spare.
I assume you're being ironic as VOIP (even using wideband audio codecs such as G722) requires 64 Kb/s per call channel.
Best regards
David
thansk peter you got one for a modem only iue no stnadaloen no wirless inbuilt or wired rotuer
The are quite a few different models they could have went with.
So BT use the chinese company whose name sounds like someone is on the porcelain telephone. The very same company who VM trialled for the alternate supply of the Superhub. I wonder if it exceeded the expectations (thereby making the Netgear SH look even worse) so was canned.
I've always suspected VM actually have a reversed standard of quality :p
craigj2k12
11-03-2012, 22:35
I assume you're being ironic as VOIP (even using wideband audio codecs such as G722) requires 64 Kb/s per call channel.
Best regards
David
No I wasnt being ironic (well a bit) but why would VM just stop using the phone network they have recently invested hundereds of thousands of pounds in?
the topic was about best Range, the dir-615 is quite an nice router i used a lot of them
---------------------
i lucky as i still have V2 50mb modem (not sh) but now they support modem mode as may Have to get one when 100mb comes (even thought my modem is currently set-up for 200 mode {4x51 links} but rate limited to 51)
i am an computer call out man work for my self so i deal with all sorts of issues
with the SH hub or any router is is disable the firewall settings and set the router to Fixed channel (1,6 or 11 as they are none over lapping channels) and set the router to 150 mode, 300 does not always work and some printers do not like 150 as well but i only set 54 mode if the printer is not happy
BT hubs they are just junk the N tech in the hubs is just about incompatible with most laptops and phones, printers, it is the main thing i fix for calls outs on BT hubs with laptops not connecting or stop working after some hrs
bt hubs setup all black ones set chan to 1,6,11 and set them to b and g mode, i never use N on them as they have to reboot the hub every day or hrs, or devices do not connect (if an BT man remotely logs in to the router they do the same thing so they are aware of it but do not fix it issue with the router as you Need N tech to get above 25-30mb speeds for infinity as most of the 5 customers i have seen get full rate FTTC speeds of 40mb, 1 got 15mb but that house was far from the FTTC cab still its better then 1mb on ADSL)
dir-615 is an nice router Very fast boot up time and quite stable (but prone to die'ing an little i got 2 of them right now that fail to boot i think one of the lights stay orange going to see if i can recover them)
Tim Deegan
12-03-2012, 11:14
A question doe qasi (and others who have done tests).
When I am at work I can pick up a Netgear wifi signal, with up to 2 bars on my iphone (which aren't good for wifi). The nearest domestic property is at least 150ft away. The signal is unsecured.
Is this likely to be a VM router, or an expensive alternative to have a range as good as that?
The netgear could be anyone of half a dozen different models. It also could be high up within a property which would increase it's range and you're more likely to receive a signal than transmit back to it.
Your question though is like asking "How long is a piece of string"
Tim Deegan
12-03-2012, 12:22
The netgear could be anyone of half a dozen different models. It also could be high up within a property which would increase it's range and you're more likely to receive a signal than transmit back to it.
Your question though is like asking "How long is a piece of string"
Thanks Kymmy. The reason I asked is because some people were slating Netgear, and it seemed like good reception. There are some three story flats nearby, so it could be from a top floor of one of them. My phone does transmit through the wifi signal also.
craigj2k12
12-03-2012, 12:31
It will be a bought netgear device, any VM device uses "VirginMedia12345" - and I doubt someone would change a VM router to "NETGEAR"
Thanks Kymmy. The reason I asked is because some people were slating Netgear, and it seemed like good reception. There are some three story flats nearby, so it could be from a top floor of one of them. My phone does transmit through the wifi signal also.
There's so many variables dictating RF transmission and reception with someof them being the type of transmission, the frequency, the antenna, the antenna feed, the power, the position and orientation of the antenna, the surrounding enviroment..etc..etc..etc.. Also the recievers orientation and distance to the transmission is a major factor
Tim Deegan
12-03-2012, 12:40
It will be a bought netgear device, any VM device uses "VirginMedia12345" - and I doubt someone would change a VM router to "NETGEAR"
My old VM Netgear router did come up as NETGEAR on the wifi list.
craigj2k12
12-03-2012, 12:44
yeah thats not a VM device thats a netgear one - i presume it was supplied alongside a modem
Tim Deegan
12-03-2012, 12:58
yeah thats not a VM device thats a netgear one - i presume it was supplied alongside a modem
It was from VM, and it was a modem and router in one. I don't know the model, because I gave it to my brother. But it was a black rectangular box that stood upright on one edge. It was supplied with a dongle that when used in my laptop, worked far better than the built in wifi. I also remember that you to pair an item you had to press a button, and then you had 2 minutes to pair the device.
No I wasnt being ironic (well a bit) but why would VM just stop using the phone network they have recently invested hundereds of thousands of pounds in?
Ah, that's a different consideration.
The BT Retail home hub uses a VOIP connection over the xDSL connection allowing multiple simultaneous calls (http://www2.bt.com/static/i/btretail/consumer/broadbandlife/broadband_activate.html). There is no reason that VM couldn't offer a similar service with suitable kit.
Best regards
David
Sephiroth
12-03-2012, 13:20
The netgear could be anyone of half a dozen different models. It also could be high up within a property which would increase it's range and you're more likely to receive a signal than transmit back to it.
Your question though is like asking "How long is a piece of string"
Tim Deegan's question to Qasi was quite astute. Remember the modified Superhub*MOD EDIT* with two high gain antennae punting out the WiFi?
It's not Netgear kit per se that's got knackered wireless; it's the wretched SH which in router mode has just about knackered everything due to VM's spec.
There needs to be a new model as others have alluded to that has proven top line features and for which customers could pay if they wanted something more than get-you-going.
Andrewcrawford23
12-03-2012, 13:22
what is neil berkett email again, i want to email him mayeb he will reply doubt it but the questions and so i have will be pasted onto someone high up at the company
Please remember that the CPE in Question is called the Superhub whether you like it or not. There is no need for childish nicknames at all, and also its breaking the CF T&Cs to do so.
Remember calling by its correct name also allows it to show up in google search if people are looking for help or advice.
qasdfdsaq
12-03-2012, 14:02
A question doe qasi (and others who have done tests).
When I am at work I can pick up a Netgear wifi signal, with up to 2 bars on my iphone (which aren't good for wifi). The nearest domestic property is at least 150ft away. The signal is unsecured.
Is this likely to be a VM router, or an expensive alternative to have a range as good as that?
Cost won't make much of a difference. Remember the legal limit in the UK on 2.4Ghz is 100mw, or 20dB. The wireless card in the Superhub, without antennas, claims to output 21dB which is already above the legal maximum, and other Netgear devices such as the WNDR3700 go as high as 29dB with the built-in antennae, or eight times over the legal limit.
As such most devices are "turned down" to avoid breaking the law. Most devices can output more but aren't allowed to. Any more expensive routers aren't going to give you better signal because even cheap ones already hit the legal limit pretty easily.
As for whether it's Virgin Media, I can't say just based on the fact the SSID is "NETGEAR". Far as I know the current-gen (Superhub) and previous gen (DIR-615) VM routers come password protected with an SSID of "virginmedia123456" as did the standard Hub (Netgear modem + router in one, and the only other combi device VM have ever provided). All the devices I've seen that just yell out "NETGEAR" with no encryption have been standalone devices - but even that said some have been supplied by VM in the past.
For one, my WPN824 was supplied by VM, and it's got the best wireless range of any router I've ever tested as yet (in stock configuration) - and it does this by using Ruckus' exceedingly effective beamforming technology. That, by default did broadcast NETGEAR with no password.
Andrewcrawford23
12-03-2012, 14:19
Please remember that the CPE in Question is called the Superhub whether you like it or not. There is no need for childish nicknames at all, and also its breaking the CF T&Cs to do so.
Remember calling by its correct name also allows it to show up in google search if people are looking for help or advice.
i assume you object to me calling it a shub??? not being childish just cant be bothr to tpye it, but i do take oyur point on it showing up on google search, i hope i havent called it any childish nae if so i apogolise, but if you mean callign it crap i do nto apogolise as tha tis my opinion
Are we not allowed to call it a shub?
qasdfdsaq
12-03-2012, 14:45
It's not Netgear kit per se that's got knackered wireless; it's the wretched SH which in router mode has just about knackered everything due to VM's spec.
Did you know the original firmware for the CG3101D is publicly available in source code format?
If I can get it to compile it'd be interesting to see how the Superhub works with Netgear's stock firmware vs. VM's modified version. Won't be anytime soon though.
Andrewcrawford23
12-03-2012, 15:13
does anyone have neil berkett email i am plannign emailing the ceo about a lot of verious things and comments
Sephiroth
12-03-2012, 15:31
Wn't the Thought Police jump onto it if CEO email address given in the forum?
qasdfdsaq
12-03-2012, 15:38
Not really, it's publicly available in many places, including many times already on this forum:
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=Neil.Berkett%40virginmedia.co.uk
i assume you object to me calling it a shub??? not being childish just cant be bothr to tpye it, but i do take oyur point on it showing up on google search, i hope i havent called it any childish nae if so i apogolise, but if you mean callign it crap i do nto apogolise as tha tis my opinion
Not saying I object but if people are to search for Superhub none of these pages would show as people keep calling it the shub.
Are we not allowed to call it a shub?
Again I know some people don't think its Super so don't want to call it that but in respect of customers googling for Superhub and wanting help none of the cable forum threads would be found as posters keep calling it the shub. That is all.
The CPE is called the Superhub so thats what it should be referred as.
craigj2k12
12-03-2012, 17:05
if you dont like superhub you could always call it the VMDG480 as that is also its name
Andrewcrawford23
12-03-2012, 17:46
i will refer to it by superhub form now on then although i really dnt but take oyru point on it
if you dont like superhub you could always call it the VMDG480 as that is also its nameAbsolutely.
Or just the VM hub.
Andrewcrawford23
12-03-2012, 17:59
Absolutely.
Or just the VM hub.
i like the idea of using them but i take stephen point most peopel il search for superhub so if i refer to it i will the first tiem in my post refer to it as superhub and all other instances will be shub, vmdg480, vmhub
Sephiroth
12-03-2012, 22:02
...
The CPE is called the Superhub so thats what it should be referred as.
That is quite ridiculous. Free speech according to Stephen. By the time people come here to discuss that wretched device they're not going to be Googling the word SHub or anything nickname we give to that thing.
Can I suggest we get back on topic!!!
Just to clarify.. Derogatory names for Virgin media equipement is not allowed, their official terms (VMDG480 or superhub) are preferable though S'hub, shub and other non derogatory terms are acceptable.
As for free speech this is a private forum, you agree to our terms and conditions and/or moderator instructions otherwise you are free to leave the forum.
Now back on topic please
just to clarify two things. firstly can SH be used?
and
Absolutely.
Or just the VM hub.
no because there'll be confusion. the standard hub and superhub.
Wishes she hadn't peeked inside this thread as her eyes glaze over...
If people don't want to use the Superhub they can use something else right? So why all the ranting and complaining. If you don't like VM's product why not just move on and be happy with what you have?Why flog a dead horse?
Life really is too short you know..Lots of other really interesting stuff to do..:walk:
What if virgin made a really crap hub, and it was so crap it was unusable, then they decided to call it a super hub, I.e it's really good, extra special, would you then force everyone to call it a superhub?
Oh wait......
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 10:05
Wishes she hadn't peeked inside this thread as her eyes glaze over...
If people don't want to use the Superhub they can use something else right? So why all the ranting and complaining. If you don't like VM's product why not just move on and be happy with what you have?Why flog a dead horse?
Life really is too short you know..Lots of other really interesting stuff to do..:walk:
:clap::clap::clap:
---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------
What if virgin made a really crap hub, and it was so crap it was unusable, then they decided to call it a super hub, I.e it's really good, extra special, would you then force everyone to call it a superhub?
Oh wait......
But they don't. They supply (not sell) one that is a good all rounder for the majority of people.
Just because it doesn't reach your high standards, that doesn't mean it isn't any good for most people. If you want better, then put your hand in your pocket, and buy one.
:clap::clap::clap:
---------- Post added at 10:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 ----------
But they don't. They supply (not sell) one that is a good all rounder for the majority of people.
Just because it doesn't reach your high standards, that doesn't mean it isn't any good for most people. If you want better, then put your hand in your pocket, and buy one.
I dont have high standards, I just want an all in one device that doesn't reboot, I can be using my phone and it will reboot. Currenty im using a dlink615 but I dont see why we should be forced to call the thing super, when it isnt.
Thats like calling virgin media "no utilisation issues virgin media" and you have to call it that even if your area is oversubscribed and your getting poor speeds because virgin called themselves that!
If something is super then fine, but in my experience its the worst router ive came across
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 11:04
Why flog a dead horse?
Life really is too short you know..Lots of other really interesting stuff to do..:walk:
For the record, I work in the Informatics department at my local university. I do it because learning about computers, information technology, and particularly wireless technology ARE interesting things to do for me. I hope you're not suggesting my line of work and my interests are "flogging a dead horse". I don't tell you or anyone else what you should or should not be interested in.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 11:05
I dont have high standards, I just want an all in one device that doesn't reboot, I can be using my phone and it will reboot. Currenty im using a dlink615 but I dont see why we should be forced to call the thing super, when it isnt.
Thats like calling virgin media "no utilisation issues virgin media" and you have to call it that even if your area is oversubscribed and your getting poor speeds because virgin called themselves that!
If something is super then fine, but in my experience its the worst router ive came across
So you have a faulty one...get it replaced. If that doesn't work, then it could be down to your BB signal, which may need looking at. Just don't take the word of someone in an overseas call centre, when they try to tell you that there isn't a fault in your area. In fact I've had both overseas and UK call centres say that there isn't a fault, and then an engineer turns up and tells me that there is a fault in my area, that the call centres wouldn't know about.
I've had two superhubs. The first one when I was on 50mb, and then they changed it when I upgraded to 100mb. I asked the engineer why they were replacing it, as I was told that the first one could handle 100mb. And he said that there were some problems with early ones, so they were replacing them as people upgraded.
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 11:08
Dude. jb66 is a VM engineer (or at least, used to be when they started dishing out Superhubs).
He's had more Superhubs in his van than you'll ever lay eyes on. I'm sure he's already tried "getting it replaced" since replacing them is his job. He doesn't need an offshore call centre to check his levels for him.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 11:13
Dude. jb66 is a VM engineer (or at least, used to be when they started dishing out Superhubs).
He's had more Superhubs in his van than you'll ever lay eyes on. I'm sure he's already tried "getting it replaced" since replacing them is his job. He doesn't need an offshore call centre to check his levels for him.
Fair enough.
He should have no problem getting it replaced then.
Chrysalis
13-03-2012, 12:16
Wishes she hadn't peeked inside this thread as her eyes glaze over...
If people don't want to use the Superhub they can use something else right? So why all the ranting and complaining. If you don't like VM's product why not just move on and be happy with what you have?Why flog a dead horse?
Life really is too short you know..Lots of other really interesting stuff to do..:walk:
yes and no
yes they can use another router, no they cant use another modem (unless CEO office).
Sephiroth
13-03-2012, 12:25
Wishes she hadn't peeked inside this thread as her eyes glaze over...
If people don't want to use the Superhub they can use something else right? So why all the ranting and complaining. If you don't like VM's product why not just move on and be happy with what you have?Why flog a dead horse?
Life really is too short you know..Lots of other really interesting stuff to do..:walk:
To add to Chrys' remarks, it's VM that needs the flogging over that wretched device. Why should people be "happy with what you have" when it's so obviously a pile of junk?
VM play their cards very close to their chest so nobody knows what they are minded to do about the SH's deficient router features. VM ignore people's wishes that they market an alternative device (CM only) albeit at a price. They might have a valid reason for not doing so, but they certainly don't share it with their customers.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 12:31
yes and no
yes they can use another router, no they cant use another modem (unless CEO office).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main problem with the wifi router part, and not the modem?
---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------
To add to Chrys' remarks, it's VM that needs the flogging over that wretched device. Why should people be "happy with what you have" when it's so obviously a pile of junk?
VM play their cards very close to their chest so nobody knows what they are minded to do about the SH's deficient router features. VM ignore people's wishes that they market an alternative device (CM only) albeit at a price. They might have a valid reason for not doing so, but they certainly don't share it with their customers.
That is just a matter of opinion. I've had no problems with mine at all.
VM are a business, and they have to make a profit. It wouldn't make good business sense to pay more for a modem that is far higher than most peoples requirements. So as with most businesses, if you want better than the default, then you pay extra. This is no different to a mobile company supplying a basic mobile with a cheap package, and you having to pay more if you want to upgrade the phone.
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 12:34
Once again, wrong, as it already is far higher than most peoples requirements.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 12:39
Once again, wrong, as it already is far higher than most peoples requirements.
So what is it about the superhub that some people complain about. I was under the impression that it was wifi range?
Once again, wrong
You really need to stop being so agressive and patronising in your posts. As I have said before I am posting as a consumer, and not a geek
Sephiroth
13-03-2012, 12:52
So what is it about the superhub that some people complain about. I was under the impression that it was wifi range?
.....
Admittedly it takes a lot of reading, but sonce the SH was introduced late in 2010, it has been unreliable. Modem mode came out 1 year later in response to user demands because of the SH's unreliability.
In addition to wireless issues (not just range), the forums constantly report instability, particularly the wretched device regularly resetting to factory default.
18 months on and the thing is still problematic except in modem mode.
Chrysalis
13-03-2012, 13:00
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the main problem with the wifi router part, and not the modem?
---------- Post added at 12:31 ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 ----------
That is just a matter of opinion. I've had no problems with mine at all.
VM are a business, and they have to make a profit. It wouldn't make good business sense to pay more for a modem that is far higher than most peoples requirements. So as with most businesses, if you want better than the default, then you pay extra. This is no different to a mobile company supplying a basic mobile with a cheap package, and you having to pay more if you want to upgrade the phone.
People only need a modem to get online, the superhub is actually excessive.
I suspect the superhub costs more than a SACM but less than a SACM + gigabit router combo. Then we add the costs involved for the work done on the superhub firmware and bad publicity.
I personally do have problems using the superhub even just as a modem, it seems to emulate the behaviour of using a localhost proxy. (as my testing has now shown I can replicate the jitter effect by using a proxy). I also dont like I cannot place the superhub where I want to put my modem/routers due to its size and orientation.
I dont think anyone here who wants a SACM has said they wouldnt pay extra for the priviledge either
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 13:02
You really need to stop being so agressive and patronising in your posts. As I have said before I am posting as a consumer, and not a geek
You really need to stop making completely incorrect sweeping statements about things you don't know. Either back up your statements or don't make them.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 14:30
Admittedly it takes a lot of reading, but sonce the SH was introduced late in 2010, it has been unreliable. Modem mode came out 1 year later in response to user demands because of the SH's unreliability.
In addition to wireless issues (not just range), the forums constantly report instability, particularly the wretched device regularly resetting to factory default.
18 months on and the thing is still problematic except in modem mode.
As I have said previously, mine was replaced when I upgraded to 100mb, and I have had no problems at all with the replacement. Apparently it was replaced because there were issues with the earlier models. So maybe it is the old ones that are complained about.
---------- Post added at 14:30 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------
You really need to stop making completely incorrect sweeping statements about things you don't know. Either back up your statements or don't make them.
My statements are correct in my experience as a consumer. Just because you don't agree doesn't make them wrong. So calm down and stop patronising people.
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 15:35
Once again, rubbish. You were making sweeping statements about the whole of VM and their business plan. Nothing to do with your experience as a consumer.
Once again, stop changing your story and weaselling out of being wrong.
To add to Chrys' remarks, it's VM that needs the flogging over that wretched device. Why should people be "happy with what you have" when it's so obviously a pile of junk?
VM play their cards very close to their chest so nobody knows what they are minded to do about the SH's deficient router features. VM ignore people's wishes that they market an alternative device (CM only) albeit at a price. They might have a valid reason for not doing so, but they certainly don't share it with their customers.
If you are not happy with a provider and their product then move on..You all have a choice. Just spare us all the angst.
---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------
I dont have high standards, I just want an all in one device that doesn't reboot, I can be using my phone and it will reboot. Currenty im using a dlink615 but I dont see why we should be forced to call the thing super, when it isnt.
Thats like calling virgin media "no utilisation issues virgin media" and you have to call it that even if your area is oversubscribed and your getting poor speeds because virgin called themselves that!
If something is super then fine, but in my experience its the worst router ive came across
But what is forcing you to stay with VM if you dislike their product?
---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:42 ----------
For the record, I work in the Informatics department at my local university. I do it because learning about computers, information technology, and particularly wireless technology ARE interesting things to do for me. I hope you're not suggesting my line of work and my interests are "flogging a dead horse". I don't tell you or anyone else what you should or should not be interested in.
Nope just wondered why you feel the need to bore others with it incessantly?:p:
craigj2k12
13-03-2012, 15:45
If you are not happy with a provider and their product then move on..You all have a choice. Just spare us all the angst.
hes with bt infinity on their uncongested network where they supply a separate modem and router
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 15:45
Once again, rubbish. You were making sweeping statements about the whole of VM and their business plan. Nothing to do with your experience as a consumer.
Once again, stop changing your story and weaselling out of being wrong.
I'm a businessman (not a student), and know how businesses work. So some of my comments are from my experience as a businessman. Other comments are from my experience as a consumer who actually used a superhub with no problems at all.
I haven't changed my story. But I have asked you to stop being agressive in your posts. There is no need for it, and it is extremely childish.
craigj2k12
13-03-2012, 15:45
Nope just wondered why you feel the need to bore others with it incessantly?:p:
It doesnt bore me
yes and no
yes they can use another router, no they cant use another modem (unless CEO office).
Or, and this maybe a novel idea, go to another provider entirely.It's not like there isn't plenty of choice these days..
---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------
hes with bt infinity on their uncongested network where they supply a separate modem and router
So why is he obsessing about VM then?
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 15:48
Nope just wondered why you feel the need to bore others with it incessantly?:p:
:clap:
craigj2k12
13-03-2012, 15:49
For Chrys its either 2mb adsl or cable, no infinity. Its a no brainer to me, id rather have an unreliable cable connection than a 2mb adsl line. Hardly a massive choice
---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------
So why is he obsessing about VM then?
becuase virgin media are a cable provider and this forum is called cable forum
For Chrys its either 2mb adsl or cable, no infinity. Its a no brainer to me, id rather have an unreliable cable connection than a 2mb adsl line. Hardly a massive choice
---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:48 ----------
becuase virgin media are a cable provider and this forum is called cable forum
Why are you replying for others?
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 15:55
becuase virgin media are a cable provider and this forum is called cable forum
It's not a VM forum
craigj2k12
13-03-2012, 15:59
Why are you replying for others?
because i know the answers to your silly questions
---------- Post added at 15:59 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------
It's not a VM forum
i know, who said it was?
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 16:01
i know, who said it was?
becuase virgin media are a cable provider and this forum is called cable forum
qasdfdsaq
13-03-2012, 16:21
I'm a businessman (not a student), and know how businesses work. So some of my comments are from my experience as a businessman. Other comments are from my experience as a consumer who actually used a superhub with no problems at all.
I haven't changed my story. But I have asked you to stop being agressive in your posts. There is no need for it, and it is extremely childish.
You just changed your story again.
"I'm a consumer not a geek so I don't know"
"I'm a businessman so I know"
Lol.
---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------
So why is he obsessing about VM then?
I'm doing a comparison of the this country's two biggest providers' "fibre optic" CPEs. A fair and impartial comparison is not "obsessing" over either.
One of the mods here asked me not to leave this site even after leaving VM, and as other mods keep saying, if you don't like a topic then leave the thread or use the ignore feature. I'm not forcing anyone to read anything.
If you're interested, great. If you're not, I'm not asking you to be.
Mick Fisher
13-03-2012, 16:31
You just changed your story again.
"I'm a consumer not a geek so I don't know"
"I'm a businessman so I know"
Lol.
---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------
I'm doing a comparison of the this country's two biggest providers' "fibre optic" CPEs. A fair and impartial comparison is not "obsessing" over either.
One of the mods here asked me not to leave this site even after leaving VM, and as other mods keep saying, if you don't like a topic then leave the thread or use the ignore feature. I'm not forcing anyone to read anything.
If you're interested, great. If you're not, I'm not asking you to be.
You can't say fairer that that. :clap:
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 16:31
You just changed your story again.
"I'm a consumer not a geek so I don't know"
"I'm a businessman so I know"
Lol.
I haven't changed anything. My comments on the way businesses run are from my business experience. My experiences with the superhub are as a consumer using a superhub.
Even you must be able to understand this? :rolleyes:
It would be nice if we could keep all the bitching and bickering out of this thread, and let qasi provide the impartial information he was obtaining by his geekery, erm, investigations, which is now lost in the whole farrago of he said/no he didn't bolleaux.....
Just sayin'....
Chrysalis
13-03-2012, 19:08
Or, and this maybe a novel idea, go to another provider entirely.It's not like there isn't plenty of choice these days..
---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------
So why is he obsessing about VM then?
Actually there is no choice for me just about.
As the competition to VM in my area is very poor, there is no FTTC in my area yet.
Please dont make things seem simpler than they are.
It would be nice if we could keep all the bitching and bickering out of this thread, and let qasi provide the impartial information he was obtaining by his geekery, erm, investigations, which is now lost in the whole farrago of he said/no he didn't bolleaux.....
Just sayin'....
Actually I would welcome that.However it seems to me that others climb on the bash VM and it's products bandwagon every time there is a thread about the superhub so the thread will end up being anything but impartial..
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 19:36
Actually I would welcome that.However it seems to me that others climb on the bash VM and it's products bandwagon every time there is a thread about the superhub so the thread will end up being anything but impartial..
I got jumped on from a great height when I dared to say that ;)
That's because Chris told us to call it a superhub, if it starts playing up again I'm not going to call it super. On a side note I've been traffic managed on my vmng so put the superhub in 5ghz mode and no reboot... yet
Sephiroth
13-03-2012, 20:54
Actually I would welcome that.However it seems to me that others climb on the bash VM and it's products bandwagon every time there is a thread about the superhub so the thread will end up being anything but impartial..
Who says a thread has to be impartial when that partiality is (in many cases) well founded?
For the record, I'm a satisfied VM customer having recently increased my spend with the company.
I bash that wretched Super Hub still because 18 months in and it is still seriously flawed as a router.
I only bash VM for the way it handles its customers, VM telling them little if anything of importance and allowing serious oversubscription to occur in many places.
And now we're seeing certain dispruptive and provocative members adding to the mix.
Well I've had my Superhub since very early on and it works perfectly for me. No issues at all.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 21:10
It would be interesting to know how many of the people who slate the superhub have actually reported the problems (and I meand to a UK call centre). Or if people have just moaned about it on forums thinking that their possibly faulty superhub is woking as it is designed to.
Just a thought!
Well thats one of the issues. It works perfectly "for me".
But for a piece of equipment that is the sole bit of kit now, it has to work for everyone. Its like having a car with cheap Chinese tyres. If you are trundling around all day they will be fine for you, but floor it and you will end up in a wall. Thank god we can use our own tyres and rely on other people to test and rate them.
---------- Post added at 21:19 ---------- Previous post was at 21:16 ----------
It would be interesting to know how many of the people who slate the superhub have actually reported the problems (and I meand to a UK call centre). Or if people have just moaned about it on forums thinking that their possibly faulty superhub is woking as it is designed to.
Just a thought!
I got my VMNG30000000 re-activated because the hub was so poor.
It would be nice if we could keep all the bitching and bickering out of this thread, and let qasi provide the impartial information he was obtaining by his geekery, erm, investigations, which is now lost in the whole farrago of he said/no he didn't bolleaux.....
Just sayin'....
Having a think about this perhaps the title is not helpful.Maybe it should be labelled as an investigation? Then maybe the postings could actually about the investigation and not the usual bickering spats about the superhub?.
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 21:25
Well thats one of the issues. It works perfectly "for me".
But for a piece of equipment that is the sole bit of kit now, it has to work for everyone. Its like having a car with cheap Chinese tyres. If you are trundling around all day they will be fine for you, but floor it and you will end up in a wall. Thank god we can use our own tyres and rely on other people to test and rate them.
But most people don't drive like a test driver, which is probably why the superhub is fine for most people.
I got my VMNG30000000 re-activated because the hub was so poor.
Maybe Stephen, or someone else who works for VM can explain why there is so much inconsistency?
It would be interesting to know how many of the people who slate the superhub have actually reported the problems (and I meand to a UK call centre). Or if people have just moaned about it on forums thinking that their possibly faulty superhub is woking as it is designed to.
Just a thought!
They offered to send a tech..... Doh, anyway I swapped the hub 3 times and gave up, it seems it's wifi related. On 5ghz mode it's been stable,2.4 it reboots. I'm at a stage I can now run 5ghz but I find the range of 5ghz not as good as the 2.4
5GHz rocks https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/03/22.gif
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 21:57
They offered to send a tech..... Doh, anyway I swapped the hub 3 times and gave up, it seems it's wifi related. On 5ghz mode it's been stable,2.4 it reboots. I'm at a stage I can now run 5ghz but I find the range of 5ghz not as good as the 2.4
This is what I can't understand, because my wifi works absolutely fine.
Do you live in a very big house?
This is what I can't understand, because my wifi works absolutely fine.
Do you live in a very big house?
nah, it must just be certain things that cause the hub to reboot, other routers, baby monitors. that would explain the shock of reliability so far tonight.
---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------
he lives next to qas
lol, his modified Dlink is giving folk on aeroplanes wifi
Tim Deegan
13-03-2012, 22:56
he lives next to qas
I should think anyone living next to qas would have problems with signals, due to interference coming from qas's house. I bet you can spot his house a mile off due to the glow, and then you will hear a hum as you get closer. ;)
Actually it reminds me of the Only Fools and Horses that was on last night, where they had a satelite dish nicked from Gatwick.
Mick Fisher
13-03-2012, 23:38
nah, it must just be certain things that cause the hub to reboot, other routers, baby monitors. that would explain the shock of reliability so far tonight.
---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------
lol, his modified Dlink is giving folk on aeroplanes wifi
If it is of any interest I noticed that during the height of the holiday season (last 2 in July, First 2 in August) my superhub, running then in the 2.4ghz band at 145mbps, was relatively stable. I think it was during this period when I achieved 13 days up with it, my personal record. Lots of the usual routers that a scan picks up were missing during that period so I definately think the rebooting is an interference issue. Later when the holiday period was over the superhub was back to it's usual spontaneous randomly rebooting behaviour.
In 5ghz at 300mbps, in spite of being the only one using it locally, the superhub was still rebooting. Less frequently though, maybe 2 to 5 times a day.
I'm now running in modem mode with an asus rt-n16 router and the set up is rock solid.
qasdfdsaq
14-03-2012, 00:19
I should think anyone living next to qas would have problems with signals, due to interference coming from qas's house. I bet you can spot his house a mile off due to the glow, and then you will hear a hum as you get closer. ;)
Actually it reminds me of the Only Fools and Horses that was on last night, where they had a satelite dish nicked from Gatwick.
My wireless networks see very little use so apart from beacons will be causing virtually no interference. >99.99% of my network traffic is wired.
As for the glow, that's because I have one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degZYv11rNc&feature=related) attached to my window to make it easier to spot where to aim my antenna when doing long-distance tests at night. It's literally visible miles away, but then that's the point.
Anyway. This thread has served its purpose, or not. To avoid "boring" this forum with any more information you may or may not be interested in, I'm moving the rest here:
http://battleofthehubs.blogspot.com/2012/03/battle-of-hubs-prequel.html
Tim Deegan
14-03-2012, 00:22
My wireless networks see very little use so apart from beacons will be causing virtually no interference. >99.99% of my network traffic is wired.
As for the glow, that's because I have one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=degZYv11rNc&feature=related) attached to my window to make it easier to spot where to aim my antenna when doing long-distance tests at night. It's literally visible miles away, but then that's the point.
Hey qasi, I wasn't being serious. I was joking based on the pictures you posted :D
He knew that.....
(I think)
qasdfdsaq
14-03-2012, 00:37
Yes, I did.
But all joking aside, I do have a half dozen wireless networks running usually, mostly at low power as one of the things I'm trying to figure out is the giant clusterf...udge that is wireless roaming.
That and I was completely serious about the glow. This (http://qasdfdsaq.com/images/misc/IMG_8985s.jpg) is my window right now.
Tim Deegan
14-03-2012, 00:43
Yes, I did.
But all joking aside, I do have a half dozen wireless networks running usually, mostly at low power as one of the things I'm trying to figure out is the giant clusterf...udge that is wireless roaming.
That and I was completely serious about the glow. This (http://qasdfdsaq.com/images/misc/IMG_8985s.jpg) is my window right now.
Isn't it harmful to have all those radio signals in your house?
qasdfdsaq
14-03-2012, 00:47
No.
Remember US power limits for wireless networks are at least ten times higher than in the UK.
And how the US is the land of freedom, where you can sue anyone for anything.
We'd have heard about it by now.
qas you really are our version of Sheldon Cooper only factual and better :D
Your 'disco' lights and turn table are priceless :LOL:
qasdfdsaq
14-03-2012, 09:06
Oh crap, nearly forgot - need to take that turntable to work today. You literally reminded me on my way out this morning!
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.