Average Usage Per Month By Tier [Archive]

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 10:36

horseman

28-10-2011, 10:55

Is there a similar chart for upstream? ……and any breakdowns over hourly/time of day averages?

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 11:29

No and no, there is however a chart which shows network usage overall by time.

Download Failed (1)

keepitretro

28-10-2011, 11:48

Ya I'm running at 1-2GB/day with the odd burst into the 5 - 10GB range. We use around about the average for a 50Mb household, last time I measured we downloaded 60GB/month or so, it'll have increased a bit due to increased use of certain online services.

Daughter uses about 500MB/day streaming, myself and Mrs use maybe 1 - 1.5GB browsing and streaming, the bursts being things like XBox Live demos or longer periods of streaming media.

EDIT: I would quite like to see the median usage as well, that'd be interesting as it'd remove the skew from people like Mr Blu Ray a Day (at least) above's outlying usage pulling the average up.

Did i mention that i download blu-rays.

No i did not. Think you need some proof before finger pointing matey, what if i am running a server or hosting one.

Get your facts right first. dummy!

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 11:57

Did i mention that i download blu-rays.

No i did not. Think you need some proof before finger pointing matey, what if i am running a server or hosting one.

Get your facts right first. dummy!

It was a throwaway, and I thought quite amusing comment. If you've such a guilty conscience you could try paying for the stuff rather than downloading it, as far as proof goes:

Hmm was keeping to downloading 9pm to 9am, when i first heard about the letter thingy but now there's no danger of a letter, im filling my boots while i can.....

Rather odd statements for someone running a server, and:

Never had a month where i do less than 1.7 tb!!!!.

But at the end of the day that's why i pay £42 per month!

You can't upload 1.7TB in a month on the 50Mb service you subscribe to - its 5Mb/s upload is good for ~1.5TB month run 24x7 and you won't be able to do that due to upstream STM, let alone the rest.

I do love when people pop up and brag about how much they use then get all defensive when the blatantly obvious, that they're doing it with dodgy content, the only thing there being enough of being Blu Rays, is mentioned. We're not stupid ya know. No-one really batted an eyelid or cared until you got defensive about it.

EDIT: On that note if you're finished weakly protesting your innocence let's get back on topic.

danielf

28-10-2011, 12:11

It's all linux distros and game demos. Honest Guv...

keepitretro

28-10-2011, 12:23

Maggy

28-10-2011, 13:27

Keep the discussion civil.Abuse of members is against the T&Cs.

Chrysalis

28-10-2011, 14:10

For the curious, from the most recent results.

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/2715/vmusage.jpg

Those figures blow average usage away reported by certian adsl isps ;)

also from those figures its clear 100mbit is underpriced and the removal of STM on it wasnt logical.

---------- Post added at 14:10 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

No and no, there is however a chart which shows network usage overall by time.

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1052/vmtraffic.jpg

is that graph saying they trying to keep utilisation at 100%?

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 14:41

Not defensive just don't like daft comments, at the end of the day u dont know me your, just a person at the end of a wire! and so was the other guy.

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

(Makes hand gesture as he leaves the room)

Very true so why you felt the need to get so upset by what I said is beyond me. I'll console myself with the thought that I can write English at primary school level.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

is that graph saying they trying to keep utilisation at 100%?

Yes, every ISP will want to keep network usage as close to 100% as is feasible, many do it through business usage balancing out the lighter residential usage periods.

keepitretro

28-10-2011, 15:56

Pathetic insult,

would have thought someone with nearly 9000 forum posts would have had something better to say lol.....

Suprised you didn't try and fit a Yo Mama joke in as well........lol

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 16:08

I can only work with what I'm given sadly.

It's not an insult it's a statement of fact, my 9 year old has better punctuation and grammar.

Make an English course part of next month's 1.7TB+, it may lead to a better job so you can buy the Blu-Rays you're downloading instead of taking them for free from the internet then getting all offended when someone mentions it.

Now if you're done trying to pretend that you aren't upset by the person at the end of the wire that you can't help but respond to and that your at least 1.7TB per month is all legitimate let's get back to the thread topic of the average usage per month on VM.

keepitretro

28-10-2011, 16:22

Hugh

28-10-2011, 16:23

Back on topic, please.

Chrysalis

28-10-2011, 16:42

Very true so why you felt the need to get so upset by what I said is beyond me. I'll console myself with the thought that I can write English at primary school level.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------

Yes, every ISP will want to keep network usage as close to 100% as is feasible, many do it through business usage balancing out the lighter residential usage periods.

I can understand 70-80% maybe even 90% but not 100%. Unless QOS doesnt matter to them. As inevitibly there will be natural spikes and unexpected periods of utilisation so 100% will mean congestion and explains the peak time tbb issues etc.

I know isps who consider anything above 60% as over utilised. So to say every isp is a bit of a stretch.

I remember entanet trying this experiment and it didnt exactly work out well for them (the other way round using residental to fill business off peak), even aaisp have hit trouble trying to share business and consumers together using this method. It seems isps just want peak to be 24/7. Greed to squeeze every bit of revenue possible from capacity.

Ignitionnet

28-10-2011, 16:46

Hence 'as is feasible'.

joglynne

28-10-2011, 16:49

I'm on 10Mb and the amount I download in an average month is extremely low but I must admit to finding the increased upload of 1Mb useful. I can understand how some people can rack up the downloads, especially with all the legitimate streaming available now but I can't get my head around what it would take to use 1.7TBs and what effect that could have on the other users in that area?

Please forgive the possibley naive question.

Sirius

28-10-2011, 17:12

Ya I'm running at 1-2GB/day with the odd burst into the 5 - 10GB range. We use around about the average for a 50Mb household, last time I measured we downloaded 60GB/month or so, it'll have increased a bit due to increased use of certain online services.

Daughter uses about 500MB/day streaming, myself and Mrs use maybe 1 - 1.5GB browsing and streaming, the bursts being things like XBox Live demos or longer periods of streaming media.

EDIT: I would quite like to see the median usage as well, that'd be interesting as it'd remove the skew from people like Mr Blu Ray a Day (at least) above's outlying usage pulling the average up.

Well i seem to have slowed down, only 500 gig this month so far

---------- Post added at 17:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

It's all linux distros and game demos. Honest Guv...

Not for me i download useful stuff that's entertaining :LOL:

---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------
(Makes hand gesture as he leaves the room)

:wavey::wavey:

kwikbreaks

28-10-2011, 17:23

I can't get my head around what it would take to use 1.7TBs and what effect that could have on the other users in that area?
It would take some dedication to maintain that for sure. Unless collecting for collecting sake and assuming it's video then fitting in eating alongside all the downloading, burning (assuming it's not filling a hard drive a month) and viewing might be difficult too. If it's Linux distros then there wouldn't be enough hours in the month to install them all let alone customise and test.

What impact on others? Possibly none - you can just about do that on 8Mbps ADSL. Where problems would occur would be if it were torrents because the associated upstream would royally screw up the neighbours.

Chrysalis

28-10-2011, 17:25

I average I think 50-100 gig a month.

Usually I got for numerous days doing nothing bur browsing, ssh and streaming. Granted streaming can chew up moderate bandwidth. Then I will go on a downloading spree, could be xbox content or games/tv etc. (yes i occasionally download american tv shows in low xvid format tho not silly 1080p stuff). That spree might last 4-5 hours or so but then I be idle for numerous days again.

Skie

28-10-2011, 18:19

also from those figures its clear 100mbit is underpriced and the removal of STM on it wasnt logical.

I dunno. If there were huge numbers of linux users I would have expected them to jump on the cheaper and also not STM'd 50meg rather than pony up more for limited benefit. After all you are still limited by the P2P throttle and whatever upload speed other people can supply.

I'm averaging 110GB a month on 50 meg. :angel:

Chrysalis

28-10-2011, 18:27

I could download many TBs of content without using p2p easily, and I am sure others do the same. Plus it seems the p2p throttle can even be invaded on p2p if what I have read is true.

horseman

28-10-2011, 18:55

Hence 'as is feasible'.

….but is "business" also "best effort" ? ;)

buckleb

28-10-2011, 18:57

28GB a month on average (50mb product).

I'm obviously not trying hard enough!

philwhite100

28-10-2011, 19:02

I am on 50meg and download very little on average which include game updates etc which are the biggest files apart from that it's just gameplay or browsing.

danielf

28-10-2011, 19:03

Not for me i download useful stuff that's entertaining :LOL:

Nature Documentaries :naughty:

Hugh

28-10-2011, 19:48

….but is "business" also "best effort" ? ;)Reasonable efforts, surely?

Sirius

28-10-2011, 19:53

Nature Documentaries :naughty:

How did you know :)

ileikcaek

29-10-2011, 10:18

I'm sitting at 195GB downloaded this month so far, with upload it's at 282.5GB This doesn't include parents PC and sisters laptop as they are on the superhub (which doesn't log as well as the DIR-615 with DD-WRT) which my PC and laptop is connected through.

I don't generally download much and do not download 'illegal' stuff, it's mostly browsing (with some youtube and iPlayer) but I stream a webcam via ustream for up to 12 hours a day and that is where much of the upload comes from.

horseman

29-10-2011, 10:49

Just out of curiosity I've extrapolated some stats from:

A: "L"/10/1 Tier which appears to indicate 60GB down and 30GB up monthly on Brig15 and
B: "XL"/20/2 tier at 90GB down & 10GB up monthly via Brig16.

As the "main man" said - standard deviation and demographic breakdown would be interesting to see?

Ignitionnet

29-10-2011, 12:19

Demographic breakdown?

I think we can guess which demographics are generally the heaviest users in both directions.

The heaviest usage per modem probably goes to students where there's a number of adults caning the thing. That group that VM whores itself to and oversubscribes various segments of its network with each and every year.

I'm curious as to what your arithmetic is based on however?

horseman

29-10-2011, 19:36

Demographic breakdown?

….The heaviest usage per modem probably goes to students…. That group that VM whores itself to and oversubscribes various segments of its network with each and every year…..

Quite probably although somewhat incongruous when you think those almost predictable yearly "load cycles" should have normally been trivially anticipated using any number of "off-the-shelf" DOCSIS modelling software apps that various US research uni's have been utilising/publishing for last decade! ;)

Demographic breakdown?
….
I'm curious as to what your arithmetic is based on however?
Perhaps I should have tried to be cute and said Modulo 2 ? - naw base radix 10 I'm afraid! ;)

Sorry to dissappoint - totally uninspired,non-innovative,unscientific and statistically crude:

A: Lan backup/Timecapsule disabled for last week and (nic)throughput from one Macbook sampled eg today:
Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.00.41.png (http://cl.ly/150m2y0j0r2S183Z0z2p/Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.00.41.png)
Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.01.48.png (http://cl.ly/2Y2d2U0W1V05051i2o36/Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.01.48.png)

2 Apple Laptops(inc 1 Win7 VM) +1 Win7 native Desktop - No serious streaming,no P2P, no multimedia,occassional OS distro's and just VM's castrated version of f-secures brain dead (unlimited) Backup&Storage constantly uploading to f-secures's vm data server and due to my frequent re-imaging of Mac OSX sandbox it is literally constant! Runs vintage (2009) SamKnows Performance trialist monitor 24x7.

B:1 user self built PC + Win7 - No backup - Medium/Heavy p2p + intermittent media streaming alternating with heavy gaming, and sporadic DVD downloads, no SK monitor but frequent remote desking from my systems and data extrapolated from VM SH eg today:
Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.02.56.png (http://cl.ly/0x1J083J1D170B2l3m03/Screen_shot_2011-10-29_at_19.02.56.png)

Ignitionnet

29-10-2011, 19:38

Quite probably although somewhat incongruous when you think those almost predictable yearly "load cycles" should have normally been trivially anticipated using any number of "off-the-shelf" DOCSIS modelling software apps that various US research uni's have been utilising/publishing for last decade! ;)

The increase in upstream usage with the uplift surprised VM somewhat.

horseman

29-10-2011, 20:11

The increase in upstream usage with the uplift surprised VM somewhat.

I would normally say fire the system Architect except I suspect they've still retained IBM/Cisco consultancy…. ;)

Chrysalis

29-10-2011, 21:04

The increase in upstream usage with the uplift surprised VM somewhat.

I am surprised that they were surprised.

Historical data has shown multiple times when speeds go up on broadband usage usually goes up with it.

m47een

29-10-2011, 23:26

Is it possible to give an indication of the rough number of subscribers per tier so you can put things in perspective?

Ignitionnet

29-10-2011, 23:54

Certainly.

There's about 4,072,900 cable broadband customers, broken down thus (base):

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9881/vmtiermix.jpg

Chrysalis

30-10-2011, 00:25

yeah an ever increasing load on the docsis3 network based on that info. Large shift from 10mbit to 30mbit.

Ignitionnet

30-10-2011, 08:48

Which is good.

kwikbreaks

30-10-2011, 09:33

So when I downgrade from 50 should I go to 30 or the whole way to 10 considering my portion of the DOCSIS 3 network currently sucks big time?

Chrysalis

30-10-2011, 19:26

Which is good.

as long as capacity is increased with growth. Or if you on the 10mbit network :)

Daveoc64

31-10-2011, 12:41

The increase in upstream usage with the uplift surprised VM somewhat.

Why!?

Until the uplift, VM had comparatively low upstream, so it made sense that people only used it when they absolutely had to.

Ignitionnet

31-10-2011, 15:56

Why!?

Until the uplift, VM had comparatively low upstream, so it made sense that people only used it when they absolutely had to.

They probably anticipated it would have the same proportionate increase as similar upgrades to downstream speeds.

Wrong, obviously, as most upstream usage is still P2P, so will fill whatever pipes they provide. With some exceptions most people don't make attempts to saturate their downstreams 24x7 because they can as they only grab stuff they can use, while serving a popular torrent will happily unattended fill the upstream 24x7.

kwikbreaks

01-11-2011, 16:08

That's very much a no **** Sherlock situation. How did VM miss it and isn't the upstream caught by the shaping?

horseman

02-11-2011, 10:29

They probably anticipated it would have the same proportionate increase as similar upgrades to downstream speeds.
...

While "hindsight" allows a far more accurate "load forecasting model" ;) it does imply that VM naively ignored a wealth of "trend analysis" in the public domain over recent years and/or lacked the necessary sophisticated DOCSIS modelling software to derive more accurate predictive load forecasts by area?

Clearly we'll never know the details as to what "wet finger" the VM's Systems Architect employed or financial constraints that presumably prevented engaging the usual typical University based Research Projects or Independent Consultancy available.

Interesting to see what contingency and forward planning has now been effected for the predictable increased demand during the 2012 Olympics.
Again we'll never know whether VM have "learnt from their mistakes" until the "event" occurrs! :(

kwikbreaks

02-11-2011, 10:48

I suspect the upgrade was marketing led based on what Infinity offers as upstream. The amount of science would be limited to whether or not the waved finger should be licked.

greyhairbadger

02-11-2011, 11:25

I suspect the upgrade was marketing led based on what Infinity offers as upstream. The amount of science would be limited to whether or not the waved finger should be licked.

I can't help but agree. I also strongly feel that the Systems Architect(s) were very much financially constrained. The alternative proposition is that they are fools, and I find that hard to believe.

Forgive my ignorance, but based on my limited understanding of DOCSIS, I believe that asymmetry is by far its greatest weakness, and the magnitude of asymmetry is only likely to trend upwards with time?

Also, my understanding is that the overall ratio of traffic is trending towards an increase in upstream, as more and more users discover the joys of legitimate file sharing through p2p? (Or perhaps this is counterbalanced by a proportional increase in legitimate downloads from Usenet, along with video streaming)?

In any case, is there not an argument for an increase of the magnitude of traffic shaping for p2p? (Ignoring for the moment all the problems associated with the misidentification of packets.)

Frankly, if it were up to me, I would drop every single Bittorrent packet (that I could recognise).

Phil.

kwikbreaks

02-11-2011, 12:04

I have to declare a personal interest here.

My own connection was performing just fine for ages then suddenly there was a marked degradation - sometimes to quite abysmal performance levels.

From looking at my TBB monitor and some speedtests I'm pretty much convinced that a lot of the congestion is down to a single user - the onset and end of periods of abysmal performance are quite sharp so I don't see what would cause co-ordinated usage of many users plus speedtests taken at such times show a very low upstream. I'm pretty much sure that a single user has taken 100Mbps and is hammering torrents.

I've got an outstanding question on the VM community board on the eta of a fix for the fault reference they gave me when I complained about the congestion. If they don't come up with something reasonable (ie this month) I'll be calling in to downgrade as I don't see paying for 50Mbps when a lot of the time they can't deliver 10Mbps. This has completely destroyed any faith I had in VM and I'll almost certainly be moving to Infinity when it becomes available to me. Of course being a BT product that will probably be poor too but I've seen few horror stories yet.

Chrysalis

02-11-2011, 12:50

What is bizzare as well that although docsis is asymmetrical in a big way the allowed usage on the upload vs download before STM kicks in is almost symmetrical 5gig vs 4 gig. On my 30mbit connection I can hit the download limit very quickly, but the upload limit would take many hours of full speed.

Whats more common then realised is streaming videos from home, uploading videos to youtube, hosting gaming servers, hosting web hosting from home (sad but true), then there is generic upload stuff like uploading photos etc. Also the increasing trend of online data storage servers,for things like backups.