View Full Version : Frustrating installation woes - BT have annexed my trunking!?
gingerbull
05-10-2011, 13:08
I'm after some advice - please bear with the long story :-)
I moved into a brand new house a couple of years back, a house inside VM's cable network - or so I thought. The house was built on what was formally some allotments adjacent to some established properties. The driveway, which is quite long, is block-paved, but the developer had the foresight to lay trunking from the very edge of the drive to the house itself, along with a draw-string to allow cable to be pulled through. When trying to get a VM installation I was told that it wasn't possible, since the tracking under the footpath terminated too far from my property, at the far edge of the neighbour's property - therefore the width of the neighbour's property away from the edge of mine. I was told that there was a limit of something like 3 meters that the VM installation teams would dig for an installation. That was that, until I was told that the rules had changed, and that digs of up to 10 metres were now possible. I tried again, the spotter told me that all should be well, and I signed up for an installation. The installation never happened, and when trying to find out why I was told that the distance between the end of the tracking and the start of my trunking wasn't an issue (it was about 8 meters), but that the installers had spotted that the BT cable was pulled through the same trunking. I was told in an email that "Once BT have used the duct it is their exclusive property and we cannot use it". Strictly, the trunking is my property, not BT's, but I'm sure that it too literal interpretation of what was meant. Nevertheless, given that VM's cable would fit easily alongside BT's cable, it does seem odd that VM are unable to proceed, though I accept that they feel their hands are tied.
I work a lot from home, and my work requires fast and reliable connectivity - my plan was to have both an ADSL and a fibre connection, so having the BT cable removed isn't really an option. As there is no physical reason why this can't happen I was wondering if the lateral thinking forum members could see a way around this situation that would allow me to get a VM installation.
weesteev
05-10-2011, 20:00
Cables cannot share ducts, if BT has run a drop cable through that duct then nothing else can use it. Only other option is to lay a new trunking if possible.
Basically, your screwed. BT are good at this, they even do it on New Build sites where we put new duct in as well.
jungleguy
05-10-2011, 20:28
VM can pull a cable through an empty duct, but not one that has a BT cable in. It's now 15 meters of pavement that can be dug to get you installed, does that help?
---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------
Is there a telegraph pole outside your property? If yes the BT cable could go over head, freeing up the duct!
weesteev
05-10-2011, 20:58
VM can pull a cable through an empty duct, but not one that has a BT cable in. It's now 15 meters of pavement that can be dug to get you installed, does that help?
---------- Post added at 20:28 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------
Is there a telegraph pole outside your property? If yes the BT cable could go over head, freeing up the duct!
Your still counting on BT moving that cable though, and they have no obligation to do so. You could pay to have it shifted by Openreach, or disconnected and removed if your no longer a BT customer.
Seems like a stupid ruling, fair enough if bt laid the ducting it is their property but if u laid the ducting for convenience purposes like laying a duct under a driveway so u can run cables through it without digging up your driveway then the duct belongs to u, so why should bt claim it as their own, they didn't pay for the materials or the labour costs in laying the duct.
---------- Post added at 09:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------
Does this ruling include interior trunking? As I have a load of network, telephone and coax cables running through some trunking including a vm coax for my superhub, and and a bt cable going to a master socket for my secondary infinity connection I'm ordering soon.
qasdfdsaq
05-10-2011, 23:27
Remove the BT cable, get VM to do the install, put the cable back in yourself. Job done.
weesteev
06-10-2011, 07:51
Remove the BT cable, get VM to do the install, put the cable back in yourself. Job done.
No do not do this, the cable is BT property, ownership of duct has nothing to do with this. Usage of duct is covered by the telecommunications act regardless of who fitted the duct.
If there is a cable in the duct, it cannot be used. Also, external cable is not shielded, hence the reason differing copper cables should not be placed in the same ducts.
qasdfdsaq
06-10-2011, 23:58
External coax isn't shielded? You kidding?
External coax isn't shielded? You kidding?
it is shielded, telephone cables arent shielded though.
VM external cable is shielded,
Interior white and black cable I think is quad sheilded if i can remember.. although on the drum i noticed the other day they only say Tri Sheild.. but when i cut a cable offcut open it looks like quad
so,
foam,
foil shield,
braid,
further foil sheild
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2011/10/61.jpg
whereas the exterior cable is only Tri Shielded, could be wrong, so i will check in the morning as I have some off cuts floading around from past installs.
so,
foam,
foil shield,
braid,
will show a cross section later
but telephone cables arent normally shielded.
weesteev
07-10-2011, 08:23
External 540 and 860 coax is not shielded, Fibre is not shielded, Telco Copper is not shielded. Drop cable is shielded with a single foil, internal coax is triple shielded.
qasdfdsaq
07-10-2011, 19:21
All coax is by definition shielded. If it's not shielded it's not coax. If there were any problems with putting coax and pots in the same duct then VM's siamese cable would not exist.
jungleguy
07-10-2011, 19:42
Shield is another word for a condom. Let's play safe here guys!
qasdfdsaq
07-10-2011, 19:43
Only if you're RP'ing
Nedkelly
07-10-2011, 19:57
860 and 540 is shielded fibre does not have to as its light telco is not :)
raging bull
07-10-2011, 20:37
Silly question for technical person?
Could the duct if a given size allows, put 2 pipes inside larger duct.
Then 1 cable through each.
Could do most duct I'd imagine will fit 2x 22mm mdpe pipes inside the duct then run cable through each, technically separate ducts then lol
jungleguy
08-10-2011, 06:15
aka CID
weesteev
09-10-2011, 10:42
What your referring to is "sub duct", this is used for core network transmission
yep, but doesnt it satisfy the requirements for individual ducts?
gingerbull
11-10-2011, 10:21
Many thanks for the advice guys, you are all most helpful. The consensus seems to be that I'm screwed, which wasn't the answer I hoped for - nevertheless at least I know where I stand now.
How are you screwed? Shove 2 sub ducts inside the duct one for each cable problem solved and each cable has it's own duct
And if you can't get the BT cable into a duct then just cut 2 short lengths of duct, slice down lengthways, wrap round the cable and then secure to the other empty duct so that it looks like it's in its own duct ;)
gingerbull
11-10-2011, 11:51
The duct is certainly wide enough for two narrower pipes - it looks like 40mm plastic plumbing to me. Under the ground it must have 90 degree joins though, it goes straight down at one end, straight up at the other, and the run must be >15 meters. I don't see how I would get two smaller ducts in there. OK, I'm not the most practical of people, there may be methods I haven't considered.
It depends on the severity of the bend, it might go straight down, but the bend could have a fair arch on it. There's not much chance of it being a straight 90 degree bend as the cable has to follow the arch and pulling a cable past a 90 degree bend is asking for trouble.
The only way to tell would be to get a length of pipe and give it a push down to see if it can get past the bend. You'll probably find if you get some that's flexible enough it'll have no issues with it.
Is garden hose an option?
So correct me if I'm wrong, a BT 40 pair cable isnt individually shielded?
If the builder supplied the conduit then it isnt BT property, who gave them permission to use it? They should remove their cable and supply their own?
What is your ADSL like? We were begging for VM to install here as we had sub 2M ADSL ith 2K phone line length! Took 3 years but eventually we have nice fast broadband!
Can you not route through the neighbours property (maybe put in a new duct for you both if they are interested?)
---------- Post added at 15:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:55 ----------
Another option is to dig the existing trunking back a few inches/feet then replace with 2 seperate smaller ducts at both ends. Make sure you leave a rope to pull the new cable, then to the casual observer it looks like 2 seperate ducts!
Not really allowed, but depends on how much you want the VM install!!
vBulletin® v3.8.11, Copyright ©2000-2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.