View Full Version : help, need proof
My wife works on line for a company, who have somewhat tolerated the down times of my broadband, though of late, they not too happy with my wife, and are asking that she send proof that an engineer from virgin has visited...
when i asked the guy that came, he said sure, i'll just log in to here, and that'll prove i was here, and then left...
is there any way i can get some sort of proof, written preferably to show he was here?
thanks for you time
craigj2k12
09-05-2011, 12:47
you can phone virgin, with your wifes employees present and they can confirm the dates and times of engineer visits
---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------
...you will need to confirm your identity before your wifes employees speak with them i.e. give your permission for the information to be given
ok, thanks, maybe a feedback form in email might be sufficient for them :)
RobboEdin
09-05-2011, 15:19
Is this a business BB or the residential one?
The SLA's are completely different, I would have thought.
pip08456
09-05-2011, 15:50
Is this a business BB or the residential one?
The SLA's are completely different, I would have thought.
The SLA's are different for a good reason. There's a difference in Business BB and residential.
Those who complain about problems with a residential cnnection when they are actually using it for work should look at changing to a buisiness connection and having a back-up service for emergencies even if it is only a 3G wireless dongle.
Unfortunately I have no sympathy at all for those using residential services for business purposes.
it is a res yes, though are going to change over to a business one
pip08456
09-05-2011, 17:02
Don't forget the back up option either.
I apologise for being negative but it is common sense when relying on your connection to earn an income.
it is a res yes, though are going to change over to a business one
If you are using the connection mostly for working then you should be using a business broadband package.
craigj2k12
09-05-2011, 17:37
If you are using the connection mostly for working then you should be using a business broadband package.
i cant see that there are any rules that make this a compulsory option?
pip08456
09-05-2011, 17:49
i cant see that there are any rules that make this a compulsory option?
There aren't any, the SLA is different though. If someone is relying on their connection to earn an income although they don't have to be on a business connection they can't complain about the lack of alacrity in the problem being solved.
You get what you pay for!
Not having a back-up system in place is also stupid as is your post (sorry:D).
Am sure it's in the t&cs that you shouldn't be using a residential service for business or commercial use. Could be wrong though.
pip08456
09-05-2011, 18:19
Am sure it's in the t&cs that you shouldn't be using a residential service for business or commercial use. Could be wrong though.
You could well be right, I didn't bother to check. I just relied on common sense which seems to be in short supply nowadays.:D
i cant see that there are any rules that make this a compulsory option?
Am sure it's in the t&cs that you shouldn't be using a residential service for business or commercial use. Could be wrong though.
You are responsible for the way the services are used. You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:
a. Send a message or communication that is offensive, abusive, defamatory (damages someone's reputation), obscene, menacing or illegal;
b. Cause annoyance, nuisance, inconvenience or needless worry to, or break the rights of, any other person;
c. Perform any illegal activity;
d. Break, or try to break, the security of anyone else's equipment, hardware or software;
e. Deliberately receive, use, own, post, transmit or publish obscene material (including, but not limited to, child pornography);
f. Upload, download, post, publish or transmit any information, material or software that is protected by copyright or other ownership rights without the permission of its owner;
g. Copy, distribute, attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse-engineer, modify, sub-license, or use for any other purposes any software or equipment we and/or Virgin Media Entertainment provide except:
- as set out in Section S in respect of open source software; and
- that you may make a back-up copy of the software we provide for your personal use;
h. Use any services (including, but not limited to, phone services) for commercial or business purposes;
:D
craigj2k12
09-05-2011, 19:54
b. Cause annoyance, nuisance, inconvenience or needless worry to, or break the rights of, any other person;
telfordcable could have his 100mb connection taken away by VM!! :D :D :D
Chrysalis
10-05-2011, 05:01
to be fair hes not complaining about the actual downtime but just asking for way to get proof of it.
to be fair hes not complaining about the actual downtime but just asking for way to get proof of it.
My post wasn't aimed at the OP, apologies.
Sorry - I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but the line:
You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:
h. Use any services (including, but not limited to, phone services) for commercial or business purposes;
seems to be incredibly restrictive.
Obviously I can see what is intended by the restriction, but a condition as vague and as open as that would even render a call, or even an email, to the office as being in breach.
As I have recently been forced to work from home, albeit in a situation where I am not dependent on VM's service and therefore do not need a tighter SLA, I find that I am constantly in breach of that condition.
Checking VM's website the only broadband offerings to single location business users are "Super fast and reliable 21st century fibre optic cable broadband" with a choice of 10Mb and 20Mb !
I really can't see me downgrading the bundle I'm on, & paying extra for it for the sake of a better SLA being an option I would consider.
So I expect anytime soon to be thrown off the network for telephoning a work colleague!
The reason (imho) that the line you quoted is in there is to stop subscribers suing/claiming for loss of business or revenue due to outages, as residential services have no SLAs, unlike business.
Sorry - I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but the line:
seems to be incredibly restrictive.
Obviously I can see what is intended by the restriction, but a condition as vague and as open as that would even render a call, or even an email, to the office as being in breach.
As I have recently been forced to work from home, albeit in a situation where I am not dependent on VM's service and therefore do not need a tighter SLA, I find that I am constantly in breach of that condition.
Checking VM's website the only broadband offerings to single location business users are "Super fast and reliable 21st century fibre optic cable broadband" with a choice of 10Mb and 20Mb !
I really can't see me downgrading the bundle I'm on, & paying extra for it for the sake of a better SLA being an option I would consider.
So I expect anytime soon to be thrown off the network for telephoning a work colleague!
You can use it for accessing work just not specifically using the service for running a business from on a daily basis.
The reason (imho) that the line you quoted is in there is to stop subscribers suing/claiming for loss of business or revenue due to outages, as residential services have no SLAs, unlike business.
Completely agree, except that residential do, of course, have SLAs, just not as onerous as business, which is why I said, "I can see what is intended by the restriction", but nevertheless the restriction forbids you from using the services for any commercial or business purposes, which could even stop you from 'phoning in sick' if taken to the letter of the T&Cs.
Subscribers could not sue/claim for loss of business or revenue in any case because section N.2.c removes any liability for VM from "any business loss (including loss of profits, business, revenue etc, etc... even if such loss was reasonably foreseeable...
So if VM accept no liability for any business loss (quite understandably on a residential contract) why should they spell out specifically that the services can not be used for any business or commercial purposes.
Please bear in mind I'm not talking about running an on-line business here, just a simple working from home situation, being able to use email and telephone to keep in touch.
Our postings crossed: You can use it for accessing work just not specifically using the service for running a business from on a daily basis.
where does it say that?...
OK - I've found it:
AUP. 6.1.4. trade or business use of the Services of any kind unless used during the course of working away from the usual place of work (“home working”). The Services are for residential use only.
Chrysalis
10-05-2011, 17:42
its harsh in how it prohibits homeworking, you can upload 24/7 on a residental VM connection which traditionally is business like behaviour but you cant homework.
I am still baffled as to why VM dont have a clause on the residental service that prohibits running server's.
arcimedes
10-05-2011, 19:02
Its basically the same as BT's conditions which bans business use on residential services though I cant yet find their AUP. I suspect all the other telcos are the same.
Milambar
10-05-2011, 20:23
Well, same or not, it is badly worded imho. I do know why it exists, and I understand and accept why it exists. VM don't want people running businesses over residential services, especially while they offer a range of "competing" business services.
As worded, they would be within their contractual rights to terminate your services, as others have said, for simply calling into work for something.
Not being a legal expert, I wonder about the "commercial" aspect. I wonder if that could mean we're not allowed to buy goods online, or do online banking... I know what the intended meaning is "not allowed to sell stuff", but could the literal interpetation extend to online banking, etc?
Either way, this thread got offtopic, as they are wont to do.
its harsh in how it prohibits homeworking, you can upload 24/7 on a residental VM connection which traditionally is business like behaviour but you cant homework.
I am still baffled as to why VM dont have a clause on the residental service that prohibits running server's.
It is in the Terms and Conditions that every customer agrees to and if you want to use it for business then go with the Virgin Business arm.
http://shop.virginmedia.com/the-legal-stuff/terms-and-conditions-for-cable-services.html
D Using the services
1 : You are responsible for the way the services are used. You must not use the services to do any of the following acts or allow anyone else to use the services to do the following acts:
h. Use any services (including, but not limited to, phone services) for commercial or business purposes;But the Acceptable Use policy does have the following regards homeworking.
6. Prohibited uses of Virgin Media's systems, services and equipment
6.1.4. trade or business use of the Services of any kind unless used during the course of working away from the usual place of work (“home working”). The Services are for residential use only.Of course this does not mean that you can permanently work away from your place of work.
To be honest I am not happy the way VM staff try and put the home workers into the same category as business.
In this case the guy's wife is working at home and is being paid by the business she is working for, she isn't a business herself.
VM need to change that policy and not lumber people under the same banner in the hopes of getting a Business line out of them.
The is always the option of Virgin Media Business (http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/) which can be more beneficial to the homeworker because if you have an issue with your connection causing you loss of revenue then you can complain to them about your loss, whereas I would just remind you that you are using a residential service and any losses are nothing to do with Virginmedia.
I am not disputing the fact that VM can't be responsible for data loss etc if it involves employment action.
But I am disputing the fact that people who work from home and who are not running a business is somehow thrust towards the business package, I don't think most people who work from home can earn enough to afford several hundred pounds a month :P
£39 (10Mb) or £49 (20Mb) per month - VM Business (http://www.virginmediabusiness.co.uk/products__solutions/broadband__internet_services/business_broadband__phone.aspx)
Yeah but I have seen on occassion and on the official forums were they have been pushed for the dedicated 50 and 100mb lines. Which is wrong.
That is what I was meaning :)
pip08456
10-05-2011, 23:11
Yeah but I have seen on occassion and on the official forums were they have been pushed for the dedicated 50 and 100mb lines. Which is wrong.
That is what I was meaning :)
They can't be as they don't exist as business services as yet.
Most homeworkers are in effect self-employed therefore conducting a business. Good business practice would dictate that if you were relying on an internet connection to conduct it you would have a back up even if it were only a 3G dongle.
Had the OP had that then there would not be an issue.
craigj2k12
10-05-2011, 23:32
the dedicated lines the big red internet can be any speed up to 200mb or something like that cant they
its a big red price as well!
the dedicated lines the big red internet can be any speed up to 200mb or something like that cant they
its a big red price as well!
They can pay the lesser charges and have more comeback it is worth it in the long run.
pip08456
10-05-2011, 23:34
I was not referring to a leased line which is what you are talking about, you know that craig!:D
craigj2k12
10-05-2011, 23:36
I was not referring to a leased line which is what you are talking about, you know that craig!:D
DABHand said
Yeah but I have seen on occassion and on the official forums were they have been pushed for the dedicated 50 and 100mb lines. Which is wrong.
may i highlight the word
dedicated
yep, thats what he said
pip08456
10-05-2011, 23:43
That's DABhand for you, comes out with a loty of uncorroberated "info", doesn't provided a link to his scource and expects you to believe him.
Your choice craig.
Ahh pip, im sorry I didn't record every thread I visited on the official forums ready for archival and retrieval use.
But I have seen it as well as others.
If I remembered the thread title etc of course I could search for it, but since these threads were a bit common 5months+ ago, and I think a few recently. They are there.
Chrysalis
11-05-2011, 02:53
They can't be as they don't exist as business services as yet.
Most homeworkers are in effect self-employed therefore conducting a business. Good business practice would dictate that if you were relying on an internet connection to conduct it you would have a back up even if it were only a 3G dongle.
Had the OP had that then there would not be an issue.
I agree on having a backup, but I dont see why it needs to be specifically forbidden. Working from home will often coincide with home use so eg. one might want a 50mbit connection with the 5mbit upload for their kids which incidently isnt on the business package line up but also use it for homeworking, as long as the customer understands there is no SLA then it should be fine to both parties. To be fair to VM tho I have heard no stories of them hunting people down so it does seem the clause is there to counter claims for downtime.
I agree on having a backup, but I dont see why it needs to be specifically forbidden. Working from home will often coincide with home use so eg. one might want a 50mbit connection with the 5mbit upload for their kids which incidently isnt on the business package line up but also use it for homeworking, as long as the customer understands there is no SLA then it should be fine to both parties. To be fair to VM tho I have heard no stories of them hunting people down so it does seem the clause is there to counter claims for downtime.
You did read my post on the preceding page I take it, homeworking is not specifically banned and is allowed as long as it is not for running a business and not your primary workplace.
Any losses incurred by virtue of a fault are your responsibility though as it is a residential line and most sensible people would ensure that they had a fallback plan such as a PAYG USB mobile broadband dongle to ensure they can carry on working.
Chrysalis
11-05-2011, 09:13
then its not allowed as for many homeworkers it is their primary workplace. What happens if someone owns a business but accepts emails etc. on their home VM connection? not allowed?
and please stop posting disclaimers ;)
then its not allowed as for many homeworkers it is their primary workplace. What happens if someone owns a business but accepts emails etc. on their home VM connection? not allowed?
and please stop posting disclaimers ;)
If they lose connection for whatever period and are working from home then Virginmedia cannot be held responsible for any losses incurred, nothing stopping you from working from home but the are those restrictions with regards a residential account.
I have seen vans with a Virginmedia email address on them which is amusing because if they went to another ISP it would no longer work.
then its not allowed as for many homeworkers it is their primary workplace. What happens if someone owns a business but accepts emails etc. on their home VM connection? not allowed?
and please stop posting disclaimers ;)
By homeworking it means maybe a couple of times a week not everyday.
Having your own business and running it using a VM connection rather than a business connection is what the T&Cs refer too.
Chrysalis
11-05-2011, 10:13
If they lose connection for whatever period and are working from home then Virginmedia cannot be held responsible for any losses incurred, nothing stopping you from working from home but the are those restrictions with regards a residential account.
I have seen vans with a Virginmedia email address on them which is amusing because if they went to another ISP it would no longer work.
Why did you post a disclaimer when I politely asked you not to, its as if you posting here in an official manner. Or you know you been watched over.
Why did you post a disclaimer when I politely asked you not to, its as if you posting here in an official manner. Or you know you been watched over.
Which disclaimer is that.
VM aren't going to do anything to people home working, unless they expect more from VM because of it ..
I work from home a lot, but I don't run a business through my VM connection.
I think common-sense comes into it here, VM use the T&C's to cover themselves, but in reality unless you are sending masses of emails, or running high usage servers, then no one will know or care..
Nedkelly
11-05-2011, 19:05
I think Nopanic is right there are lots of people who work from home and use there bb at home to do so .I know i do :D .Its when people come out and say i am loosing buissness because the network is down and i say not aware of any buissness modems on this node :D
VM aren't going to do anything to people home working, unless they expect more from VM because of it ..
I work from home a lot, but I don't run a business through my VM connection.
I think common-sense comes into it here, VM use the T&C's to cover themselves, but in reality unless you are sending masses of emails, or running high usage servers, then no one will know or care..
Most sensible comment so far :tu:
pip08456
12-05-2011, 17:50
Most sensible comment so far :tu:
And the following isn't? What planet are you on?
Most homeworkers are in effect self-employed therefore conducting a business. Good business practice would dictate that if you were relying on an internet connection to conduct it you would have a back up even if it were only a 3G dongle.
Had the OP had that then there would not be an issue.
That is not saying they should have a business connection but a back up plan in case of problems faults etc.
craigj2k12
12-05-2011, 18:55
the OP only needed proof of downtime, they dont want a business line, so the thread is finished
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