Thinking Of Upgrading

[dex77]

Hi, I'm on 50mb at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to 100mb. does anyone know if they have 100mb up and running in the Blackburn area. I know its £35 per month, is the price coming down in the next few weeks or months. I'd also like to hear anyone's experiences upgrading to 100mb with the new superhub. As i've heard a few horror stories when upgrading!

[Neo-Tech]

http://shop.virginmedia.com/broadband/up-to-100mb.html

See the first paragraph.

[pip08456]

Hi, I'm on 50mb at the moment and am thinking of upgrading to 100mb. does anyone know if they have 100mb up and running in the Blackburn area. I know its £35 per month, is the price coming down in the next few weeks or months. I'd also like to hear anyone's experiences upgrading to 100mb with the new superhub. As i've heard a few horror stories when upgrading!

To see if Blackburn is 100Mb ready click on my sig.

[dex77]

To see if Blackburn is 100Mb ready click on my sig.

COOL :D Have they fixed the problems with the superhub as my set up with 50mb with d link 615 and seperate modem is great at the moment, but I heard that you have to have a superhub when upgrading to 100MB.

[Neo-Tech]

Yep, you do.

[capt coax]

no you dont ...

i am running the vmng300 on 100 megabit..
when you order just tell them that you want 100megabit but not the superhub..
as the superhub is still not fit for purpose..
and stick with it..

goodluck :)

[Neo-Tech]

^It won't work, it's been said several times and you're just a lucky one. ;)

[Nopanic]

no you dont ...

i am running the vmng300 on 100 megabit..
when you order just tell them that you want 100megabit but not the superhub..
as the superhub is still not fit for purpose..
and stick with it..

goodluck :)

I think there is an order requirement to at least have a Superhub on the account before it will allow the 100Mb service code.

[Peter_]

no you dont ...

i am running the vmng300 on 100 megabit..
when you order just tell them that you want 100megabit but not the superhub..
as the superhub is still not fit for purpose..
and stick with it..

goodluck :)
I would not hold my breath with regards to getting a VMNG300.

[capt coax]

never say never . it does not hurt to try .. i did :)

[craigj2k12]

My vmng300 and superhub are both registered, so now my only problem is waiting for the network upgrade!

[roughbeast]

no you dont ...

i am running the vmng300 on 100 megabit..
when you order just tell them that you want 100megabit but not the superhub..
as the superhub is still not fit for purpose..
and stick with it..

goodluck :)

I have been told that too, by a VM staff member who enquired on my behalf. I will want to keep my WNDR370. He said that all I have to do is make my reasons clear and hold my ground.

[dex77]

I have been told that too, by a VM staff member who enquired on my behalf. I will want to keep my WNDR370. He said that all I have to do is make my reasons clear and hold my ground.

thats exactly what I will do when my year contract runs out in August. I'm not downgrading my modem and router to a superhub. NO WAY. :shocked:

[ferretuk]

I would not hold my breath with regards to getting a VMNG300.

Isn't the whole point that the OP already has a VMNG300 for his existing 50Mb service, not that he wants to be supplied with a modem rather than the (notso) superhub?

[Peter_]

Isn't the whole point that the OP already has a VMNG300 for his existing 50Mb service, not that he wants to be supplied with a modem rather than the (notso) superhub?
But he is advising that he insists on getting a VMNG300 to another poster which is all well and good considering that they are becoming as rare as hens teeth.

Do read the post I replied to fully.;):D

[pip08456]

But he is advising that he insists on getting a VMNG300 to another poster which is all well and good considering that they are becoming as rare as hens teeth.

Do read the post I replied to fully.;):D

I did and no he doesn't.

^It won't work, it's been said several times and you're just a lucky one. ;)
On what do you base this remark?

Anecdotal evidence says it does (as VM said when it was introduced).

[Neo-Tech]

Well it's not 'officially' supported now, is it?

[Peter_]

I did and no he doesn't.



?????

[pip08456]

Well it's not 'officially' supported now, is it?

I did not say it was. You said "It won't work" !

[Peter_]

Well it's not 'officially' supported now, is it?
As Pip found out.

[pip08456]

As Pip found out.

Not quite correct Masque.

As I'd already decided to leave VM I allowed the 7 day trial of 100Mb with the superhub to go ahead purely and simply because I'd been calling it a POS without ever experiencing it.

Having now done so I can now with confidence continue referring to it as such.

My BB needs are different from the "normal" user.

I don't game online, I may download the "odd" torrent. Having 2 servers myself and serving several others for other people upload speed is king. I could be quite happy with 10Mb download speed.

Had the plooperhub been able to deliver the 10Mb upload on the 100Mb service I would've considered staying with VM, it didn't. The highest I ever got was 5.6Mb most likely due to the incompatability problem with Motorola BSR's which is very rarely mentioned but install techs know about.

Funilly enough I had a call from retentions today to ask why I was leaving and could he do anything about it. As soon as I mentioned, politely, that it was due to the substandard equipment now being issued he agreed with me and didn't even try to offer anything else.

Masque, you keep saying from your experience, there is no increase in calls for support since the introduction of the plooperhub.

I believe this is the case but is not indicative of everyone being happy with it nor customers leaving because of it.

[Peter_]

Not quite correct Masque.

As I'd already decided to leave VM I allowed the 7 day trial of 100Mb with the superhub to go ahead purely and simply because I'd been calling it a POS without ever experiencing it.

Having now done so I can now with confidence continue referring to it as such.

My BB needs are different from the "normal" user.

I don't game online, I may download the "odd" torrent. Having 2 servers myself and serving several others for other people upload speed is king. I could be quite happy with 10Mb download speed.

Had the plooperhub been able to deliver the 10Mb upload on the 100Mb service I would've considered staying with VM, it didn't. The highest I ever got was 5.6Mb most likely due to the incompatability problem with Motorola BSR's which is very rarely mentioned but install techs know about.

Funilly enough I had a call from retentions today to ask why I was leaving and could he do anything about it. As soon as I mentioned, politely, that it was due to the substandard equipment now being issued he agreed with me and didn't even try to offer anything else.

Masque, you keep saying from your experience, there is no increase in calls for support since the introduction of the plooperhub.

I believe this is the case but is not indicative of everyone being happy with it nor customers leaving because of it.
I was talking about them disallowing the VMNG300 onto the next tier as promised by Customer Relations nothing more.

As I keep saying everyone with a fault on here needs to ring up as often as they can if they feel the is an issue as otherwise we will just keep going around in circles until modem only mode comes in.

[riccojames]

Ive just spent almost two hours talking to various depts and ended up with tech support that kept dodging my questions, anyway to cut it short I lost my rag and hung up after telling them to note on my account "PICK IT ALL UP!" because I dont want this rubbish or anymore lies being told to me!

Total waste of space :td:

[Neo-Tech]

Eh? I thought it was the Cisco UBR's that had an incompatibility issue? Or have I been misinformed?

[Peter_]

Eh? I thought it was the Cisco UBR's that had an incompatibility issue? Or have I been misinformed?
Superhubs work on both BSR's and uBR's.

[pip08456]

Superhubs work on both BSR's and uBR's.

According to install techs (only from my experience) there is still an incompatability issue with the superhub and Motorola BSR's.

[Peter_]

According to install techs (only from my experience) there is still an incompatability issue with the superhub and Motorola BSR's.
We have plenty working on them otherwise they would not be able to give them to customers who potentially will retune to a BSR.

[pip08456]

We have plenty working on them otherwise they would not be able to give them to customers who potentially will retune to a BSR.

I didn't say they didn't work. There is an issue though which I experienced and have had confirmed by a couple of install techs (surprising who you meet in a pub)!

[Peter_]

I didn't say they didn't work. There is an issue though which I experienced and have had confirmed by a couple of install techs (surprising who you meet in a pub)!
All the ones that I have had transferred to me after activation that end up on a BSR all appear to go online in the usual timescale of between 5 and 10 minutes as they retune to correct kit after a few reboots.

[pip08456]

All the ones that I have had transferred to me after activation that end up on a BSR all appear to go online in the usual timescale of between 5 and 10 minutes as they retune to correct kit after a few reboots.

Who said that was the problem?

Yes it will connect but that is not the problem. Mine was it could never get more than 5.6 upload the download was about 76Mb but as I've said download speed means nothing to me for my needs.

If you want more details from the techs I'll be seing them next Monday.

[Ignitionnet]

We have plenty working on them otherwise they would not be able to give them to customers who potentially will retune to a BSR.

It's an intermittent performance issue not a total outage and is a known issue which is being addressed via firmware.

[pip08456]

It's an intermittent performance issue not a total outage and is a known issue which is being addressed via firmware.

Thanks for the confirmation Igni.

[Ignitionnet]

You're very welcome - were you seeing this on your upstream service flow information?

Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling

[pip08456]

You're very welcome - were you seeing this on your upstream service flow information?

Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling

Yes. It's still there now as I downgraded to 50Mb until my contract ends on 6th May.

Primary Upstream Service Flow
Upstream(0)
SFID 26752
Max Traffic Rate 5140000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 8160 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst 8160 bytes
Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling

[Ignitionnet]

Thought as much, thanks.

[pip08456]

You're welcome as always.

Care to expand on why?

[Peter_]

Thanks for the confirmation Igni.
If it is not listed on our Outage Page we would be unaware plus nothing on our internal Comms so probably to do with networks hence we have no knowledge of the issue.

[pip08456]

Doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist.

Looks like there's a lot of problems with the plooperhub you don't know about as it is not on the "outage" page.

[ferretuk]

But he is advising that he insists on getting a VMNG300 to another poster which is all well and good considering that they are becoming as rare as hens teeth.

Do read the post I replied to fully.;):D

I suggest you re-read the thread again!

OP posted to check the *his* separate modem could work, next reply stated that he needed the super hub , next reply that the OP did not ("When *you* order..." etc ). *You* then mentioned obtaining the modem - The OP and subsequent comments were about retaining an *existing* modem.

To avoid any ambiguity:

If an existing 50Mb customer, who already has a DOCSIS 3 SACM, wishes to upgrade to 100Mb, is it an option to retain the SACM rather than use a superhub? Yes or No?

[Chrysalis]

You're very welcome - were you seeing this on your upstream service flow information?

Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling

That appeared on R25.

I initially thought it was to do with the beta test but seems live users have the same also.

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 ----------

Doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist.

Looks like there's a lot of problems with the plooperhub you don't know about as it is not on the "outage" page.

I do wonder what his source of information is, I dont even work for VM nor have experienced the issue in question yet I know about it for months simply from reading VM forums.

[pip08456]

I read them as well Chrys.

[Peter_]

If an existing 50Mb customer, who already has a DOCSIS 3 SACM, wishes to upgrade to 100Mb, is it an option to retain the SACM rather than use a superhub? Yes or No?
No you must have a Superhub as no one will activate a VMNG300 on 100Mb as sooner or later it will stop providing the customer with internet access.

[pip08456]

No you must have a Superhub as no one will activate a VMNG300 on 100Mb as sooner or later it will stop providing the customer with internet access.

Ah but, by that time VM may have either decent firmware for the plooperhub or could've replaced it with some more half decent kit.

[Peter_]

Ah but, by that time VM may have either decent firmware for the plooperhub or could've replaced it with some more half decent kit.
Well modem only mode can only be months away so that will help a lot of people who want to use their own routers.

[pip08456]

Months on top of months!

[ferretuk]

No you must have a Superhub as no one will activate a VMNG300 on 100Mb as sooner or later it will stop providing the customer with internet access.

Are you able to expand on this? Why will the modem stop working on 100Mb? Compatibility or something else?

[Skie]

If they ever change 100meg to use more than 4 downstreams.

But as weve seen, the VMNG300 is a solid little thing now and I highly suspect that even if VM do jump up to using 8 downstreams then the modem will just lock onto as many as it can. Sure, your speeds will be halved but the connection should still work.

And the latest post on the beta forums indicates modem mode for "late April". No year mentioned though :p:

[Chrysalis]

your speed wouldnt necessarily be halved, it would just be more likely to suffer from congestion. VM as far as I know do not cap throughput per channel it just automatically load balances across them.

[craigj2k12]

your speed wouldnt necessarily be halved, it would just be more likely to suffer from congestion. VM as far as I know do not cap throughput per channel it just automatically load balances across them.

yeah I think ingi said it does just that

masque will be online soon to disagree, he insists that it will stop working when they change to 8 channels (if they do).

Mst be something to do with confusing the modem when the config file is asking the modem to connect to 8 channels

[Chrysalis]

A lot will depend how it gets configured I guess. I would imagine its optional how it works.

My guess is it may be possible to not let a modem connect if it cannot use all 8 channels, whilst it may also be possible to let it go online as long as at least 1 channel works, I suspect the latter will be the case as I have seen on current services people under fault conditions be online with just 1 channel. Of course it may even be possible for VM to detect what kit is connecting and deliberatly block vmng300's. Although I think I read somewhere (possibly ignition) that is not possible to block on type of kit.

[roughbeast]

A lot will depend how it gets configured I guess. I would imagine its optional how it works.

My guess is it may be possible to not let a modem connect if it cannot use all 8 channels, whilst it may also be possible to let it go online as long as at least 1 channel works, I suspect the latter will be the case as I have seen on current services people under fault conditions be online with just 1 channel. Of course it may even be possible for VM to detect what kit is connecting and deliberatly block vmng300's. Although I think I read somewhere (possibly ignition) that is not possible to block on type of kit.

Yes, in my experience, that is probably right. My trial 350Mb+ modem was configured for 8 channels down and 4 up. When there was a fault, eg at the head end, my modem couldn't find the right frequency because it wasn't available, so it locked onto a different frequency with less channels in use and gave me an inferior connection. However, sometimes, VM wasn't able to register the modem under these circumstances, so I got nothing.

[Neo-Tech]

350MB trials you say? :D

[roughbeast]

350MB trials you say? :D

Yup. All finished now. These were the trials that enabled VM to say that 400Mb is their future. They have cracked the technical issues to do with delivering 400Mb/40Mb on ordinary public networks. Now all you have to do is sit back and think, "Why the f*** do I need 400M?"

Perhaps, by the time 400Mb comes out the reasons will be blindingly obvious. eg streaming 3D, smellovision and the feelies. Can't wait for the 'brave new world'.

[Skie]

I can't wait for the Überhub!

[pip08456]

Are you able to expand on this? Why will the modem stop working on 100Mb? Compatibility or something else?

Ok to expand on this and Masques post which you quoted.

"No you must have a Superhub as no one will activate a VMNG300 on 100Mb as sooner or later it will stop providing the customer with internet access."

For it to stop providing the customer with internet access sooner or later it must have been configured or activated to do so in the beginning.

Am I missing something here?

[Chrysalis]

Yup. All finished now. These were the trials that enabled VM to say that 400Mb is their future. They have cracked the technical issues to do with delivering 400Mb/40Mb on ordinary public networks. Now all you have to do is sit back and think, "Why the f*** do I need 400M?"

Perhaps, by the time 400Mb comes out the reasons will be blindingly obvious. eg streaming 3D, smellovision and the feelies. Can't wait for the 'brave new world'.

It obviously wouldnt work well on a live rollout.

8x50mb channels = 400mbit capacity, so basically each user has access to 100% of shared capacity.

we already seeing complaints for a 100mbit service over 4 channels and thats 50% of capacity per user.

How many upstream channels for the 40mbit? if it was 2x20mbit that would be a disaster as that detoriates at 70% utilisation.

[roughbeast]

It obviously wouldnt work well on a live rollout.

8x50mb channels = 400mbit capacity, so basically each user has access to 100% of shared capacity.

we already seeing complaints for a 100mbit service over 4 channels and thats 50% of capacity per user.

How many upstream channels for the 40mbit? if it was 2x20mbit that would be a disaster as that detoriates at 70% utilisation.

I think I said somewhere else that the trial only used one 1Gb pipe for all the triallists combined. The 10Gb pipe held in reserve wasn't required. Wouldn't slicing to a high tolerance, plus the use of 10Gb pipes where necessary, solve the problems you are talking about? Obviously this would be expensive to run, but naturally a 400Mb service would have to be expensive for the user.

Also aren't the issues some folk are having with 100Mb more to do with the plooperhub and customer's own systems than the actual connection capacity? Surely the take-up of 100Mb hasn't been great enough yet to max out the local network.

[Chrysalis]

not sure what this 1 gbit pipe you are reffering to is, I guess backhaul from the UBR to VM's core network. I am talking about the chokepoint of the UBR port, with 8 channels it was less than half of a gbit there.

I think slicing the users down would reduce the risk of problems yes but doesnt remove the problem that a single user can saturate the port.

[Ignitionnet]

Downstream saturation isn't such an issue anyway and with few enough users happens rarely especially at 400Mbit.

These trials were 8 x 50Mbit/s downstream and (I think) 4 x 15Mbit/s upstreams bonded.

It's not that much of a problem as it's really quite difficult to saturate 400Mbit/s for any length of time. Trials of 200Mbit/s in Ashford showed similar results, people achieving close to maximum more often than not.

[Chrysalis]

unfortenatly not that hard to max out 40mbit upstream tho. which would be close to the magic 70% number on the upstream.

[craigj2k12]

did you know that if you turn your modem up side down, the downstream becomes upstream, and vice versa. I do this when im uploading videos, just turn the modem up side down and it gives me 5Mb down/50Mb up. just a useful tip

[Jimmy-J]

did you know that if you turn your modem up side down, the downstream becomes upstream, and vice versa. I do this when im uploading videos, just turn the modem up side down and it gives me 5Mb down/50Mb up. just a useful tip

Yeah, the same thing happens when standing on your head.

[craigj2k12]

Yeah, the same thing happens when standing on your head.

if you do both at the same time it freezes your superhub, so be careful

[Jimmy-J]

Well, I've never had as much trouble with my connection since upgrading to the 100Mb. It all started well with excellent speeds, up and down. But I've had to reboot the SH more than 3 or 4 times a day since having it.

And now my speeds are atrocious! And have been for the past 3 days. I've been in-touch with VM CS and they tell me that the broadband status for my area (M27) is all A-OK. But he's sending a technician out on Monday because my upstream levels are too high, it was at 58.2 earlier, and that it may be due to a fault in the green box?

Could one of you techie types confirm this? TY.

Downstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power SNR Docsis/EuroDocsis locked
Locked QAM256 83 55616000 Kbits/sec 314750000 Hz -0.4 dBmV 35.9 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 81 55616000 Kbits/sec 298750000 Hz 0.0 dBmV 35.9 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 82 55616000 Kbits/sec 306750000 Hz -0.3 dBmV 36.1 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 84 55616000 Kbits/sec 322750000 Hz -0.9 dBmV 36.0 dB Hybrid
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown

Upstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power
Locked ATDMA 1 20480 Kbits/sec 45800000 Hz 57.7 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV

Primary Downstream Service Flow
Downstream(0)
SFID 10923
Max Traffic Rate 102400000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 10000 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps

Primary Upstream Service Flow
Upstream(0)
SFID 10997
Max Traffic Rate 10250000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 16320 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst 16320 bytes
Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling

Current System Time:Sat Apr 16 16:07:26 2011

[craigj2k12]

yeah, i think 55 and above is bad. also, your snr is quite low, i think around 25/30 is too low, but the higher, the better. You will defninitley need an engineer to adjust your upstream power level. he will probably change your tap at the cabinet, which may help with your SNR

[pip08456]

The SNR is within spec (33dB min) and should not be causing an issue. The upstream power level definately needs sorting out though.

[Jimmy-J]

Thanks. I have Scheduling Type Real-Time Polling there too. What's that all about?

[Chrysalis]

ignition mentioned its to do with them debugging issues with certian BSR equipment. So yes VM are debugging on live firmware ;p