Painfully slow connection; can't get VM to help

[minichaz]

Hello everyone. I'm new here and really hope someone can help.

I've been suffering from a painfully slow internet connection for several days. I can't put precise figures on the slowness because it's so extreme most of the (unreliable I know) speed testers crap out before they finish because of lost packets I think. I clicked on the link on here to the ntlword speedtester a few minutes ago and the page hasn't even loaded yet.

I do use wireless but I have removed all of this from the equation and connected directly into the cable modem ethernet port. The speed is the same. I watch images download line by line as if I was on a dial up link.

I've just been running winmtr and packet loss is zero on my internal network and then 40% between my primary router and Virgin Media. Could this be the source of the problem?

I've tried calling Virgin Media but can't get past an Indian call centre who insist there are no faults in my area. Despite my explaining that I have connected directly to the modem they keep going on about my router. I'm afraid I hung up in the end and feel rude for doing so. It was just so pointless.

The start of my postcode is EX4 if there are any VM engineers out there.

Many thanks.

[Peter_]

If using an Ambit modem please click here
http://root:root@192.168.100.1/CmOpConfig.asp

If using any other modem click here
http://192.168.100.1/

What I want you to post is the Downstream power levels including the SNR and the Upstream power levels for me thanks.

DO NOT POST YOUR MAC ADDRESS OR SERIAL NUMBER



Also remove your router and connect direct.

Can you also try running a traceroute to www.google.co.uk (http://www.ggogle.co.uk) and also a ping test as well.

[Steve007]

I have the same issues, here is my info:

Downstream Lock : Locked Downstream Frequency : 402750000 Hz Downstream Modulation : QAM256 Downstream Interleave Depth : 32 Downstream Receive Power Level : 6.2 dBmV Downstream SNR : 25.2 dB

Upstream Channel ID : 5 Upstream Transmit Power Level : 49.75 dBmV Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec Upstream Frequency : 18384000 Hz Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2

[Peter_]

I have the same issues, here is my info:

Downstream SNR : 25.2 dB


Your SNR is to low and needs an engineer, and I presume from the colour of the font that you have a rather old Ambit modem that will require replacing.

So you need to call Tech Support which is open 24/7 on 151 from your Virgin Media Phone.

It's absolutely free.

Or call 0845 454 1111 from any other phone line.

[Steve007]

Your SNR is to low and needs an engineer, and I presume from the colour of the font that you have a rather old Ambit modem that will require replacing.

So you need to call Tech Support which is open 24/7 on 151 from your Virgin Media Phone.

It's absolutely free.

Or call 0845 454 1111 from any other phone line.

Thanks very much for your help, will I get routed through to the Indian call centre?

[Peter_]

Thanks very much for your help, will I get routed through to the Indian call centre?
We do have UK staff available here until midnight and also offshore, or leave it until after 0800 tomorrow morning.

[Steve007]

Isn't it a bit of a coincidence that many, many people are complaining of crap browsing speeds over the last few days though?

[Peter_]

Isn't it a bit of a coincidence that many, many people are complaining of crap browsing speeds over the last few days though?
Considering the amount of customers that Virgin actually have a very low percentage actually use forums.

The are also 3 platforms and many uBR's around the country so the vast majority of faults on here are totally unrelated.

[Ignitionnet]

Isn't it a bit of a coincidence that many, many people are complaining of crap browsing speeds over the last few days though?

Your fault involves you and at very most 3 - 400 other customers. It could be you, could be 20-30 customers, could be all 3 - 400.

[minichaz]

Hi Moldova. Thanks very much for your time. Might be worth noting that my first hop where all the packets seem to get lost is to 10.188.240.1. A few others with trouble seem to have mentioned that IP.

Here's everything... Almost. ;)

From the system page

Name WebSTAR EPC2100R2
Modem Serial Number *********
Cable Modem MAC Address **:**:**:**:**:**
Hardware Version 2.1
Software Version v2.0.2r1256-070601
Receive Power Level 0.5 dBmV
Transmit Power Level 43.0 dBmV
Cable Modem Status Operational

From the signal page (downstream channel)

Downstream Status Operational
Channel ID 151
Downstream Frequency 323000000 Hz
Modulation 64QAM
Bit Rate 20480000 bits/sec
Power Level 0.4 dBmV
Signal to Noise Ratio 35.9 dB

From the signal page (upstream channel)

Upstream Status Operational
Channel ID 1
Upstream Frequency 45808000 Hz
Modulation 16QAM
Symbol Rate 768000 bits/sec
Power Level 43.0 dBmV

I really do appreciate your help so thanks ever so much.

Cheers,
Charlie

[Peter_]

Hi Moldova. Thanks very much for your time. Might be worth noting that my first hop where all the packets seem to get lost is to 10.188.240.1. A few others with trouble seem to have mentioned that IP.

Here's everything... Almost. ;)

From the system page

Name WebSTAR EPC2100R2
Modem Serial Number *********
Cable Modem MAC Address **:**:**:**:**:**
Hardware Version 2.1
Software Version v2.0.2r1256-070601
Receive Power Level 0.5 dBmV
Transmit Power Level 43.0 dBmV
Cable Modem Status Operational

From the signal page (downstream channel)

Downstream Status Operational
Channel ID 151
Downstream Frequency 323000000 Hz
Modulation 64QAM
Bit Rate 20480000 bits/sec
Power Level 0.4 dBmV
Signal to Noise Ratio 35.9 dB

From the signal page (upstream channel)

Upstream Status Operational
Channel ID 1
Upstream Frequency 45808000 Hz
Modulation 16QAM
Symbol Rate 768000 bits/sec
Power Level 43.0 dBmV

I really do appreciate your help so thanks ever so much.

Cheers,
Charlie
Your power levels are fine so a call to Tech Support is in order or you can post on the Newsgroups.

How to use Newsgroups click http://www.virginmedia.com/help/cable/newsgroups/using-outlook-express.php#posting

the one you need is virginmedia.support.broadband.cable

http://www.virginmedia.com/myvirginmedia/newsgroups/

[Boody]

Your SNR is to low and needs an engineer, and I presume from the colour of the font that you have a rather old Ambit modem that will require replacing.

Sorry to hijack this but could someone clarify the Ambit modem situation?

I'm having similar problems to the original poster but my values seem to be within acceptable ranges and I don't seem to experience problems until the local core (BT postcode). I'll contact tech support tomorrow but should I be asking to get my Ambit 200 modem replaced for some reason? It's about 4 years old, NTL branded, XL 20mb and works okay perhaps needing a reboot once a week after heavy usage or failure overnight.

I've tried searching but all I could find was some notes about replacement of the 100/120 models back in 2007.

[Peter_]

Sorry to hijack this but could someone clarify the Ambit modem situation?

I'm having similar problems to the original poster but my values seem to be within acceptable ranges and I don't seem to experience problems until the local core (BT postcode). I'll contact tech support tomorrow but should I be asking to get my Ambit 200 modem replaced for some reason? It's about 4 years old, NTL branded, XL 20mb and works okay perhaps needing a reboot once a week after heavy usage or failure overnight.

I've tried searching but all I could find was some notes about replacement of the 100/120 models back in 2007.
I would ring up and ask for a new modem if on 20Mb with that model as we were swapping them last year.

[Boody]

I would ring up and ask for a new modem if on 20Mb with that model as we were swapping them last year.

Thanks, will do that tomorrow. Access problem seems to have improved, around 8 o'clock I couldn't even get a page here (and other sites to load) but things been better last 20-30 minutes.

[minichaz]

Okay, thanks. Is there any way through to tech support other than 151? As I said if I go this route I don't seem to be able to get out of India. I'll try the newsgroups.

Things are actually _much_ better this morning. Speed is usable and packet loss on that hop is only about 2%. Perhaps this is a congestion related issue? I'll monitor it during the day.

Thanks again,
Charlie

[Sephiroth]

Okay, thanks. Is there any way through to tech support other than 151? As I said if I go this route I don't seem to be able to get out of India. I'll try the newsgroups.

Things are actually _much_ better this morning. Speed is usable and packet loss on that hop is only about 2%. Perhaps this is a congestion related issue? I'll monitor it during the day.

Thanks again,
Charlie

Just to pick up on the 10.xx hop. The packet loss there is not reckonable into any problem you have. That address is the privately assigned IP address of the CMTS - the "you" side if you like. Your router or firewall could/would reject return pings. So that hop can be ignored.

[minichaz]

Just to pick up on the 10.xx hop. The packet loss there is not reckonable into any problem you have. That address is the privately assigned IP address of the CMTS - the "you" side if you like. Your router or firewall could/would reject return pings. So that hop can be ignored.

Hi Sephiroth. Can you explain what you mean? I'm curious because that packet loss was 40% yesterday when things were bad and less than 2% this morning when things were working properly. Surely if my firewall was blocking the relevant ICMP packets I'd see 100% loss all the time? I'll keep an eye on it but it does appear directly related to the issue.

Surely the "me" side is my cable modem which has a different 10.*.*.* IP address. Isn't the CMTS the start of the VM side?

As I understand it the CMTS won't just be me but will be shared with many others. With students returning for their new term could this be congestion?

Many thanks,
Charlie

[Sephiroth]

Hi Sephiroth. Can you explain what you mean? I'm curious because that packet loss was 40% yesterday when things were bad and less than 2% this morning when things were working properly. Surely if my firewall was blocking the relevant ICMP packets I'd see 100% loss all the time? I'll keep an eye on it but it does appear directly related to the issue.
[SEPH]: The 10.xx address is the "you" side of the UBR/CMTS (a private IP address supplied to the cable modem by the CMTS) and every path ping will likely show some/all packets as discarded. The fact that you get through to the next node is proof that nothing is wrong due to node 2.

The more technical explanation is that your router or modem simply doesn't respond to some or all ICMP requests (i.e. it doesn't create ICMP TTL expired packets). It depends on what the cable modem or router is doing at the time. Or it's the router firewall rejecting pings (but then it'll be 100% all the time).

Surely the "me" side is my cable modem which has a different 10.*.*.* IP address. Isn't the CMTS the start of the VM side?
[SEPH]: Not really. The CMTS will have a 68.xx or 203.xx public (registered) IP address.

The CM must talk to the CMTS. The 10.xx private address is issued to the CM by the CMTS allowing the CM to communicate with the CMTS.

As I understand it the CMTS won't just be me but will be shared with many others. With students returning for their new term could this be congestion?
[SEPH]: That's a different matter. If there is no network issue (a very complex subject) then poor performance is usually down to congestion.

That can be cause by oversubscription, unbalanced CMTS connections, too many homes connected to the street box and/or those students who do their excessive thing.

Many thanks,
Charlie
Fair enough. It's a complex subject.

[minichaz]

Thanks for that. I'll do some more research... At least I will when my connection is usable. Same old story tonight. Incredibly slow and WinMTR showing 40% loss between me and 10.188.240.1 (and of course to all sites on any route beyond). This has to be congestion, right?

Thanks as always.

[Sephiroth]

Thanks for that. I'll do some more research... At least I will when my connection is usable. Same old story tonight. Incredibly slow and WinMTR showing 40% loss between me and 10.188.240.1 (and of course to all sites on any route beyond). This has to be congestion, right?

Thanks as always.

If I could see that in pathping type format I could give you a more informed opinion. In principle, yes.

[Ignitionnet]

Just to pick up on the 10.xx hop. The packet loss there is not reckonable into any problem you have. That address is the privately assigned IP address of the CMTS - the "you" side if you like. Your router or firewall could/would reject return pings. So that hop can be ignored.

Packet loss to the 10.x hop is most certainly worth considering - on all CMTS apart from the BSR whose first hop is a public address that is the CMTS.

Seph - a traceroute is simply a ping repeated with incrementing TTL until destination reached. The Cisco kit answers from the 10.x address which the cable modems talk to so that is what is seen. Either way it's the first hop after the HFC network and should be considered within diagnostics.

The cable modem does not show on any traceroute, it bridges all packets apart from those directed to its' management address so doesn't decrement TTL and doesn't appear in traceroutes. One can ping the cable modem's 10.x address if you happen to know it, it will happily respond, but it's a pointless exercise.

[Sephiroth]

[QUOTE=Broadbandings;34945874]Packet loss to the 10.x hop is most certainly worth considering - on all CMTS apart from the BSR whose first hop is a public address that is the CMTS.

Seph - a traceroute is simply a ping repeated with incrementing TTL until destination reached. The Cisco kit answers from the 10.x address which the cable modems talk to so that is what is seen. Either way it's the first hop after the HFC network and should be considered within diagnostics.
[SEPH]: I see the point your making - packet loss TO the 10.xx hop. What most people notice is the packet loss passed FORWARD from the 10.xx hop - and this can be ignored for the reasons I've given.

......QUOTE]

[SuzieQ123]

Hi,

I was wondering if someone could help me, please? For the past week or so my connection has been awful - it cuts off constantly and I simply cannot do anything other than look at sites. Downloading is impossible.

Looking at these numbers, I get the impression something is wrong (at least with the downstream SNR)

Could someone confirm if this is the case please and whether I need an engineer?

Many thanks!

Type : Ambit ETH/USB Combo Cable Modem
Cable modem : Ambit Cable Modem
IP address :
Downstream Receive Power Level : -1.15 dBmv
Downstream SNR : 29.86 dB
Upstream Transmit Power Level : 45.00 dBmv

Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 10242000 bps
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 514000 bps

I'm in the Nottingham area and an NTL customer (used to be Diamond Cable years ago)

[Sephiroth]

Can we see all the stats please (the modulation data is missing), plus the event log? On the face of it your SNR is too low. First port of call is to check that your coax is firmly screwed in at both ends.

Second, search this forum on the term NOTTINGHAM to see how others are afflicted.

[SuzieQ123]

My apologies. I didn't realise I had missed things out.

Network Access : Enabled
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 10242000 bps
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 514000 bps
Maximum Number of CPEs : 1
Software Upgrade File Name : ntlhm100_ntl0003.cpr
Software Upgrade AdminStatus : allowProvisioningUpgrade
Software Upgrade OperStatus : completeFromProvisioning

Downstream Status
Downstream Lock : Locked
Downstream Frequency : 402750000 Hz
Downstream Modulation : 256 QAM
Downstream Receive Power Level : -1.02 dBmv
Downstream SNR : 30.08 dB

Upstream Status
Upstream Frequency : 25800000 Hz
Upstream Transmit Power Level : 45.00 dBmv

I don't appear to have an "event log" though when I log into http://192.168.100.1/ :confused:

I have checked the coax at both ends and they appear to be firmly attached.

Many thanks for your help :)

[Peter_]

My apologies. I didn't realise I had missed things out.

Network Access : Enabled
Maximum Downstream Data Rate : 10242000 bps
Maximum Upstream Data Rate : 514000 bps
Maximum Number of CPEs : 1
Software Upgrade File Name : ntlhm100_ntl0003.cpr

I would recommend that you call in and get that old modem swapped as a NTL home 100 will struggle with 10Mb as it is rather an old piece of kit.

Call 151 from a Virgin phone or 0845 454 1111 from any other phone.

[SuzieQ123]

I would recommend that you call in and get that old modem swapped as a NTL home 100 will struggle with 10Mb as it is rather an old piece of kit.

Call 151 from a Virgin phone or 0845 454 1111 from any other phone.

Many thanks, Moldova :)

[Sephiroth]

If you do call it in get them to look at your SNR. For the 256QAM modulation, you're right on the lower limit without any headroom for marginal conditions.

It may not be your modem that's causing the poor experience.

You can post your stats on the support newsgroup; they'll notice it's an old modem and offer the replacement, but will also test your line if you make the point.

151 might get you onto the offsahore call centre and although they'll happily arrange a new modem, they're not likely to want to understand anything about the low SNR.

[mjderrin]

Hi I just wanted to add that I have been suffering very poor upload and download speeds for some time - seriously bad making working from home a waste of time - quicker to do the 100 mile round trip to the nearest offce.
I contacted tech support and they said I didn't need a new modem - clearly from the discussion here they are wrong - I have the same modem I was given when I joined ntl back in 2003 - I am on an L package and I pay £25 a month for it - everyone else seems to pay less and get more - your discussion has helped me resolve to call CS tomorrow morning - thanks
BTW - the downstream power level is 4.2dBmV, snr 23.8dB; upstream pwr: 46.0dBmV, symbolic rate 2560 k sym/sec

[Sephiroth]

Hi I just wanted to add that I have been suffering very poor upload and download speeds for some time - seriously bad making working from home a waste of time - quicker to do the 100 mile round trip to the nearest offce.
I contacted tech support and they said I didn't need a new modem - clearly from the discussion here they are wrong - I have the same modem I was given when I joined ntl back in 2003 - I am on an L package and I pay £25 a month for it - everyone else seems to pay less and get more - your discussion has helped me resolve to call CS tomorrow morning - thanks
BTW - the downstream power level is 4.2dBmV, snr 23.8dB; upstream pwr: 46.0dBmV, symbolic rate 2560 k sym/sec
If your downstream modulation is 64QAM then your SNR is at the lower threshold for your modulation and not sustainable. This needs calling in. I suggest you use the support newsgroup for a swift reply and resolution.

If you're on Vista or Windows 7, you would use Windows Live Mail (a standard part of your system). To get on the VM Newsgroup you need to be operating through the VM broadband system.

You'd click the "Newsgroups" link at the bottom of the screen and then Tools/Accounts then Add/Newsgroup Account.

Give your Display Name (like mjderrin), your e-mail address then your server address for the newsgroup which is "news.virginmedia.com".

You'll then be able (via the Newsgroups menu item) to select the Virgin media icon on the left of a search panel, click on "All" and wait a few minutes till it's finished listing thousands of newsgroups.

Scroll down to "Virginmedia.support.broadband.cable" and double click it.

And you're there. You can post your stuff including the evidence you've collected.

[SuzieQ123]

If you do call it in get them to look at your SNR. For the 256QAM modulation, you're right on the lower limit without any headroom for marginal conditions.

It may not be your modem that's causing the poor experience.

You can post your stats on the support newsgroup; they'll notice it's an old modem and offer the replacement, but will also test your line if you make the point.

151 might get you onto the offsahore call centre and although they'll happily arrange a new modem, they're not likely to want to understand anything about the low SNR.

Thanks, Sephiroth. I'd already called Virgin Media by the time I saw your post, but if the replacement modem doesn't help matters I'll enquire about the problem on the support newsgroup like you suggest :)

[mjderrin]

I am sorry to sound thick but I don't really understand the bit about 'need to be on the VM system' - the OS is XP not vista or W7

Please would you explain what you mean by needing to be on the vm system - is that the email system?

Many thanks

Here is the stuff that mentions QAM (I am afraid it all just makes a nice parting in my hair as it flies over my head!)

Downstream Lock : Locked
Downstream Frequency : 402750000 Hz
Downstream Modulation : QAM256
Downstream Interleave Depth : 32
Downstream Receive Power Level : 5.3 dBmV
Downstream SNR : 23.9 dB
Cable Modem Status

Upstream Channel ID : 2
Upstream Transmit Power Level : 46.0 dBmV
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec
Upstream Frequency : 29200000 Hz
Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2

[Sephiroth]

I am sorry to sound thick but I don't really understand the bit about 'need to be on the VM system' - the OS is XP not vista or W7
[SEPH]: For XP with Outlook Express (not Outlook) the instructions are in the support section of the VM web site.

Please would you explain what you mean by needing to be on the vm system - is that the email system?
[SEPH]: You can't access the VM support newsgroup unless you're connected to the VM network.

Many thanks

Here is the stuff that mentions QAM (I am afraid it all just makes a nice parting in my hair as it flies over my head!)

Downstream Lock : Locked
Downstream Frequency : 402750000 Hz
Downstream Modulation : QAM256
Downstream Interleave Depth : 32
Downstream Receive Power Level : 5.3 dBmV
Downstream SNR : 23.9 dB
Cable Modem Status

Upstream Channel ID : 2
Upstream Transmit Power Level : 46.0 dBmV
Upstream Symbol Rate : 2560 Ksym/sec
Upstream Frequency : 29200000 Hz
Upstream Mini-Slot Size : 2

For 256QAM, the SNR lower threshold is 29 dB and then 3dB should be added for safety margin. Your SNR is 23.9 dB - so basically your circuit is shot, no good, gone to Ludwig. You can check that your coax cable is properly screwed in at both ends and if so, go to the support newsgroup as recommended.

[mjderrin]

I would just like to thank you all for your help over this problem - I spoke to the customer services and armed with the guidance you provided I was able to get them to send me a new modem.

I connected it up and amazingly all my problems with connecting - the (lack of) speed, the inability to connect to my office vpn, the inability to connect my wee netbook and my husband's laptop to the wifi were all resolved.

What I don't understand is why Virgin - who must be aware of the technical issues being caused by their customers' ancient legacy modems - does not just send out new ones. It would cut calls to the helpdesk, remove customer disenchantment and generally send out a positive 'aren't we good at customer service' message that would be far stronger than a million of those irritating red flyers that keep coming through the door.

Anyway, thanks for all your help.

[Peter_]

I would just like to thank you all for your help over this problem - I spoke to the customer services and armed with the guidance you provided I was able to get them to send me a new modem.

I connected it up and amazingly all my problems with connecting - the (lack of) speed, the inability to connect to my office vpn, the inability to connect my wee netbook and my husband's laptop to the wifi were all resolved.

What I don't understand is why Virgin - who must be aware of the technical issues being caused by their customers' ancient legacy modems - does not just send out new ones. It would cut calls to the helpdesk, remove customer disenchantment and generally send out a positive 'aren't we good at customer service' message that would be far stronger than a million of those irritating red flyers that keep coming through the door.

Anyway, thanks for all your help.
Most agents are aware of the issues the old modems will cause and will and do replace them when required, a few sadly do not do this for reasons we shall never know.