View Full Version : Ticket F001105016 - an issue with the networks team and the OEM
KingDaveRa
31-12-2009, 21:20
I've had a few oddities of late with my connection bombing, and the logs showing me as being connected to the rescue CMTS (which apparently doesn't exist). It manifests itself as the connection being dead until I renew the IP on my router, the sync light flashing, and many MANY log entries about losing sync. I've had engineer visits and an ongoing discussion with tech support on the newsgroups. My signal (now at 3db) and my SNR (41-ish) are now within spec, so apparently it's down to a ticket reference F001105016, and an ongoing issue the networks team and 'the OEM' are investigating.
A bit of googling turns up naff all of use, but reading between the lines, I've deduced there's an issue with Motorola BSRs... and that's about it!
Anybody know any more on this? I'm just intrigued as to what the issue is. It's not overly affecting me, my download speeds are still good, it's otherwise fairly stable, so until it's falling over I'll just watch it cautiously and keep on VM if it drags on. As far as I'm concerned an error is an error, so I'm keen to find out what's going on.
Welshchris
31-12-2009, 21:42
KingDave this is an ongoing issue with the BSRs around the UK... In Swansea its been happening since before August. Also with the BSR in swansea its causing people to drop offline and the ready light to flash and what is also happening the BSR is not renewing IP addresses when they drop offline.
Last i heard from the chief execs office which was 3rd week on November was Motorolla was going to send out a new code over the network to try and fix the issues in Swansea by Dec 18th. According to Network guys it was done and was the second code but it STILL hasnt solved the issue and is ongoing as people are still reporting the problems in Swansea on the newsgroup.
Sephiroth
31-12-2009, 21:49
Surely VM have a lab full of DOCSIS CM simulators that behave like users,; a number of BSRs with various ratios of contention recreating like a black box flight recorder the conditions of failure on the BSRS. Their lab can provide a core then onto the normal backbone etc.
Then they test the Motorola patch under the same simulation that brought failure earlier. If that works, they soak test under other variations and when that works, they roll out under change control.
Or will the brainios find a reason why that can't work? It works in the part of the networing industry that I serve.
KingDaveRa
31-12-2009, 21:50
Oh deep joy.
Must be a bit of a creeping issue, because the tech I had visit, and the newsgroup guys seemed to think it was the usual snr/signal issues. Which to be fair, my signal strength was a bit high.
Ignitionnet
31-12-2009, 21:59
As a word of caution be wary of any assumption that it's the same issue as Swansea. These mass issues that the usual suspect talks about which are discussed on the newsgroups have been commented on by exactly one other poster on there, and apart from him the only other person commenting on them on this forum is his tag team partner who will leap to his defense whenever he's besmirched. We've found an explanation for instability of every other person I'm aware of on here.
Keep on at the newsgroup guys and see what else they can do diagnostics wise. If they were concerned about the signals there was a reason for it, and while issues with the BSRs, which most certainly do exist a small population of users appear to struggle, are a convenient catch all for issues they may not apply to you.
---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------
Surely VM have a lab full of DOCSIS CM simulators that behave like users,; a number of BSRs with various ratios of contention recreating like a black box flight recorder the conditions of failure on the BSRS. Their lab can provide a core then onto the normal backbone etc.
Then they test the Motorola patch under the same simulation that brought failure earlier. If that works, they soak test under other variations and when that works, they roll out under change control.
Or will the brainios find a reason why that can't work? It works in the part of the networing industry that I serve.
None of the customers in this area appear to have problems with the BSR they are on. It seems to be something confined to a relatively few areas and an even smaller subset of customers in those areas and even then the customers I've seen appear to have other problems on top such as congestion in one direction or the other, signal issues, etc. It's far from a national issue affecting all customers on the equipment.
KingDaveRa
31-12-2009, 22:10
Well so far the only replies I've had have been from VM techs. I'll keep nagging them though.
Welshchris
31-12-2009, 22:28
Surely VM have a lab full of DOCSIS CM simulators that behave like users,; a number of BSRs with various ratios of contention recreating like a black box flight recorder the conditions of failure on the BSRS. Their lab can provide a core then onto the normal backbone etc.
Then they test the Motorola patch under the same simulation that brought failure earlier. If that works, they soak test under other variations and when that works, they roll out under change control.
Or will the brainios find a reason why that can't work? It works in the part of the networing industry that I serve.
As far as im aware according to second line support 2 patches have been tested, rolled out and have both failed. So their testing procedures must not be upto scratch.
---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------
Well so far the only replies I've had have been from VM techs. I'll keep nagging them though.
Contact the CEO office they will be able to tell u what Motorolla are upto thats who im in contact with.
KingDaveRa
31-12-2009, 23:38
Contact the CEO office they will be able to tell u what Motorolla are upto thats who im in contact with.
I don't have any details for them.
I don't have any details for them.
Chris will be able to supply you with all you need including the birthday card list.
As far as im aware according to second line support 2 patches have been tested, rolled out and have both failed. So their testing procedures must not be upto scratch.[COLOR="Silver"]
Could be one of those horrible little issues thats difficult to reproduce in the lab.
Seen some really funny thing's were 2 bits of kit don't interact quite how one would expect, and of course you can't always control what a customer plugs into the network.
Welshchris
01-01-2010, 01:31
Chris will be able to supply you with all you need including the birthday card list.
Someone sounds Jelous.
---------- Post added at 01:31 ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 ----------
I don't have any details for them.
Best way to do it is by going here....
http://www.ispa.org.uk/cgi-bin/complaints.cgi
Fill in the complaint form and the right person for ur area will contact u within 3-5 working days.
As u can see by the childish reaction on here and comments by Virgin media staff they dont like people who do continuously complain when they didnt have a reliable connection for almost 5 months like me. They hate people who keep on and on and expect their customers to just grin and bare it.
My advice is to keep on and on and on and it will pay off trust me, financially it did for me :-).
darren.b
01-01-2010, 05:31
I have been up 17 days now. Was fixed in EH on 18th dec.
Logs still full of keech though.
:D
Welshchris
01-01-2010, 05:38
Not fixed on the one here in Swansea lol
The reason i know is there are still a few reports on newsgroup after that date of people with the same problem and when i asked if the code rollout fixed the issue i was told this..
"The code has been installed but the issue is still under review"
and i asked then...
"So does that mean that they are reviewing wheather the fault has been solved
or did it fail to solve the fault?"
And to this date no one has answered and this was on Dec 20th.
KingDaveRa
01-01-2010, 09:34
Thanks for the info. I'll keep on top of it :)
Ignitionnet
01-01-2010, 10:22
Someone sounds Jelous.
My advice is to keep on and on and on and it will pay off trust me, financially it did for me :-).
*Jealous and I doubt it.
You've had a real nightmare with Virgin though, seems as though every time your discounts get close to running out you have problems.
Sephiroth
01-01-2010, 10:44
....
None of the customers in this area appear to have problems with the BSR they are on. It seems to be something confined to a relatively few areas and an even smaller subset of customers in those areas and even then the customers I've seen appear to have other problems on top such as congestion in one direction or the other, signal issues, etc. It's far from a national issue affecting all customers on the equipment.
Happy New Year, BBings (and all).
You've chosen to miss my point, I think. The BSRs were recently introduced for expansion of the 50 Meg service. The forums and newsgroup are full of OEM involvement in sorting out software/firmware bugs - and its taking a damn long time.
Whilst I accept someone's view that there might be situations that are difficult to reproduce, its the reproduction of these conditions in the lab (not in the field) that leads to a solution. This is then added to the regression testing programme so that later software releases can be fully tested before release.
At least that's how I've been brought up in the global networks with which I've ben involved. It's about professional standards and good practice.
Now you, BBings, have a VM background; I don't so I don't know whether or not VM try to meet the professional standards I've described. If they do, then there's something vital missing from the pot; if they don't, shame on them.
Ignitionnet
01-01-2010, 12:26
Emergency patches may be rolled out more quickly. Code would usually be running in a lab first however it's not possible to fully test it regrettably. If it were possible to test code 100% Motorola would never release buggy software.
As it is the BSR operating system is utter garbage with a few flaws in it that I won't go into in depth for security reasons.
That these flaws, even if they are so intermittent, still persist and are so fundamental is disgusting. The new update as well as fixing some issues exacerbated others. If my employer coded our software so sloppily we'd be in real trouble.
Emergency patches may be rolled out more quickly. Code would usually be running in a lab first however it's not possible to fully test it regrettably. If it were possible to test code 100% Motorola would never release buggy software.
Indeed. You can have a system running with simulated loads for ages without a fault, then as soon as you let joe soap loose on it, faults appear...
pip08456
01-01-2010, 14:12
I don't know whether or not VM try to meet the professional standards
Why oh why didn't you post this yesterday???? I'm sure you'd've won the joke of the year award!:angel::angel::angel::D
Welshchris
01-01-2010, 23:08
*Jealous and I doubt it.
You've had a real nightmare with Virgin though, seems as though every time your discounts get close to running out you have problems.
if u say so u always seem to know best ;)
Do you have the reference remedy number for this 'fault! Please Chris. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to track this fault. Like you, I'm also in contact with 2nd line NG and John from the CEO.
Now I'm not saying your a liar, before your compadre jumps to your defense in dramatic display of wording and emotional content. Though you may have been a little liberal with the truth.
Reference please?
Digital Fanatic
02-01-2010, 00:20
Do you have the reference remedy number for this 'fault! Please Chris. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to track this fault. Like you, I'm also in contact with 2nd line NG and John from the CEO.
Now I'm not saying your a liar, before your compadre jumps to your defense in dramatic display of wording and emotional content. Though you may have been a little liberal with the truth.
Reference please?
Yes... I think we'd all be interested in the remedy reference for this.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 01:07
Do you have the reference remedy number for this 'fault! Please Chris. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to track this fault. Like you, I'm also in contact with 2nd line NG and John from the CEO.
Now I'm not saying your a liar, before your compadre jumps to your defense in dramatic display of wording and emotional content. Though you may have been a little liberal with the truth.
Reference please?
The Fault reference for mine is .....F001089743. My ticket has been open since August and STILL not solved it. Although my connection is now stable as im back on a UBR and not a BSR it doesnt solve the problem where i cannot upgrade to 50mb because i will get the same problem again.
There is also another guy in swansea with a reference number .... F001138176 for same fault. I know these reference numbers are for the fault in Swansea but having spoken to Second line support and CEO office they have stated the same problem is happening on BSRs elsewhere around the country.
Thanks for the reply Chris. I'd have thought the reference for yours and the other guys would have been the same. Same fault, same reference; makes sense, no?
While tracking the progress of the fault I would think it better to avoid confusion and cause mass hysteria by stating there is a *whatever* fault and it symptoms are *common/generic* to many other faults.
As much as you think your helping the good people of this forum, do you not think you could be setting them off in the wrong direction and thus hindering VM from identifying the true fault for this person.
Analogy: because someone displays late stage AIDS/HIV symptoms. They may in fact have influenza.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 02:06
They dont hand out same numbers to different people because they r linked to the persons account. When looking at the ticket number then they can see what account its linked to.
The other person in swansea has been down the same road as i and is suffering from the same fault to do with the same problem as i was and was told by second line support.
Im not stating people on here ARE suffering from the same issues, what im suggesting its a possibility when they are having identical problems, on a BSR, signal levels r all ok and cant get any further as the problems are not just in Swansea.
No sir!
I beg to differ, you do state at any given opportunity that the posters symptoms match or come close to yours so you then regurgitate the tale of the 'national BSR' fault.
Having worked with the application "remedy" I know tickets are generated per fault and not for an account. Those faults you see on the service status page come from remedy and are fault logs. It would be impossible for VM to generate and manage fault tickets for a area fault and assign a different fault reference number against the account.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 02:38
i have never stated that its a NATIONAL ! BSR fault, i have stated that Virgin are having faults with some of their BSRs over the country. If it was a NATIONAL fault then everyone connected to the BSRs would be having the same issues and they are not and this is part of the problem whats making it difficult for Virgin to track down.
If the problem was JUST in swansea why would Virgin and Motorolla be testing a code to issue Nationwide. If this is the case then they must be aware of the problem elsewhere on other BSRs.
As for the ticket numbers do the pleasure of logging onto the newsgroups and u will see they r both valid for the swansea area.
Post made that fit or come close to fitting the symptoms you have, have had are followed by your posting of the 'BSR' fault. You may now be saying that its confined to a small area, but you do this only when challenged.
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34901648-post4.html and I can find more examples without to much effort!
P.S There is no need to use CAPS LOCK to get your point across, I am not deaf or have a visual impairment. If you feel the need to shout then perhaps you should take more time out to think about what you wish convey and post after reading it back to yourself.
I am not a CSR that you can shout at to get your own way!
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 03:30
P.S There is no need to use CAPS LOCK to get your point across, I am not deaf or have a visual impairment. If you feel the need to shout then perhaps you should take more time out to think about what you wish convey and post after reading it back to yourself.
I am not a CSR that you can shout at to get your own way!
really? could have fooled me!
See now your reverting to petty insults again because you can't get your point across and/or shouting hasn't gotten you where you'd hoped.
Because someone doesn't agree with you or finds your posts to be refutable, does not make them an idiot, blind or deaf.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 04:01
its not that u dont agree with my posts u cant agree with facts given to u from Virgin themselves on the newsgroup. If u were slapped in the face with the truth u wouldnt know it.
I do agree with facts from the groups, what I don't agree with is your replies in threads that its the 'BSR issue' when no diagnostics have been done.
Like my analogy: "Oh you have flu like symptoms, you must have HIV/AIDS"
No examination, symptoms fit so it must be!
You make no attempt to diagnose the fault, you simply spew the same old lines. If you lack the skill set to troubleshoot local and network faults based on data that will be given to you on request by the OP, then I don't see why you bother at all, your cries of "its the BSR issue" are nothing short of scaremongering.
Pantsu-san
02-01-2010, 10:47
Well, for the record, I'm not in Swansea, thankfully :), but I've just, this morning, been informed by the 2nd line bods in vm.s.b.cable the exact same fault number :
"This issue is under investigation on reference: F001105016"
So I'd hazard a guess that this isn't local to WelshChris' location and is likely affecting people all over the place, but I'd also agree that anyone having regular 50Mb disconnections isn't automatically suffering from the exact same issue unless they have had it investigated and been told specifically so by a VM support engineer. Until that happens, it's just speculation.
are nothing short of scaremongering.
The BS issue, perhaps? ;)
really? could have fooled me!
Chris, III is without doubt not a CSR and really does know what he talking about with regards to this type of issue so it is better to work together and then he can try and pinpoint any fault you may have.
You also do not get personal fault numbers otherwise the system would collapse as the same fault on the same equipment need to be cross referenced for guys like III to be able to spot common issues.
If you have a genuine fault he can actually help you.
I do agree with facts from the groups, what I don't agree with is your replies in threads that its the 'BSR issue' when no diagnostics have been done.
Like my analogy: "Oh you have flu like symptoms, you must have HIV/AIDS"
No examination, symptoms fit so it must be!
You make no attempt to diagnose the fault, you simply spew the same old lines. If you lack the skill set to troubleshoot local and network faults based on data that will be given to you on request by the OP, then I don't see why you bother at all, your cries of "its the BSR issue" are nothing short of scaremongering.
You have the patience of a saint :tu:
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 13:15
Chris, III is without doubt not a CSR and really does know what he talking about with regards to this type of issue so it is better to work together and then he can try and pinpoint any fault you may have.
You also do not get personal fault numbers otherwise the system would collapse as the same fault on the same equipment need to be cross referenced for guys like III to be able to spot common issues.
If you have a genuine fault he can actually help you.
i never said he was a CSR rep! + if u read a lot of the stuff i always ask for modem power levels and so on, so before u talk utter nonsence please review my posts before hand and stop twisting words in the fashion of virgin media as ive noticed they are getting good at trying to do this.
pip08456
02-01-2010, 13:27
Any chance of declaring a truce somewhere along the line? Arguments like this don't help anybody do they?
i never said he was a CSR rep! + if u read a lot of the stuff i always ask for modem power levels and so on, so before u talk utter nonsence please review my posts before hand and stop twisting words in the fashion of virgin media as ive noticed they are getting good at trying to do this.
Not twisting he said that he was not a CSR rep that you could shout at, to which you replied You could have fooled me (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34937117-post29.html)
But as I said he can help a lot more than everyone else.
I never twist anything and will endeavour to tell my customers the truth rather than another version and will also correct any previous things they may have been told.
If I was not that kind of person then I would not be posting on here.;)
Raistlin
02-01-2010, 13:36
Any chance of declaring a truce somewhere along the line? Arguments like this don't help anybody do they?
Quite right, enough please.
This thread is about the issues posted in the OP, and is not to be used as the personal soap box of individuals.
chris26engwales
02-01-2010, 13:37
moldova and thats the problem, you correct people even when they are right.
I remember you trying to tell me that my dads problem isnt the same as welshchris's because he is proberbly on a different piece of kit and lives in a different part of swansea even though my dad had already been informed by second line support on 2 occasions that the fault was the same one and welshchris's and to do with the BSR.
at the end of the day your a CSR and dont know everything whats going on with virgin.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 13:41
Any chance of declaring a truce somewhere along the line? Arguments like this don't help anybody do they?
i dont like the petty arguments myself BUT! i do have the right to defend myself at any given time especially when i am only trying to help someone with facts given by Virgin themselves and then get it thrown back me and called a liar.
Raistlin
02-01-2010, 13:43
Thread closed for 10 minutes to allow EVERYBODY to read my previous post.
There won't be any more warnings/leeway given on this one, I'm sick of seeing threads subverted like this.
moldova and thats the problem, you correct people even when they are right.
I remember you trying to tell me that my dads problem isnt the same as welshchris's because he is proberbly on a different piece of kit and lives in a different part of swansea even though my dad had already been informed by second line support on 2 occasions that the fault was the same one and welshchris's and to do with the BSR.
at the end of the day your a CSR and dont know everything whats going on with virgin.
I said that you will more than likely be on a different BSR as you live in a different area and Swansea is quite large.;)
---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------
i dont like the petty arguments myself BUT! i do have the right to defend myself at any given time especially when i am only trying to help someone with facts given by Virgin themselves and then get it thrown back me and called a liar.
I would never call you or anyone else on here a liar and only advised you to give III the information required to help you.:)
TBH, Im sick of seeing both Welshchris and chris26engwales continually moaning on this forum, both about their service and VM in general. The staff here have bent over backwards to help you on numerous occasions, and yet all you do is attack them some more. This will not continue in 2010, because Im sick of reading it and will personally terminate your CF accounts if you continue - this ceased being a hell and moan site a long time ago, its a help site and clearly neither of you seems to want to be helped.
If all you want to do is moan all the while, then find another forum to do it on - and if your VM service is really that bad, terminate it and mover to another provider.
TBH, Im sick of seeing both Welshchris and chris26engwales continually moaning on this forum, both about their service and VM in general. The staff here have bent over backwards to help you on numerous occasions, and yet all you do is attack them some more. This will not continue in 2010, because Im sick of reading it and will personally terminate your CF accounts if you continue - this ceased being a hell and moan site a long time ago, its a help site and clearly neither of you seems to want to be helped.
If all you want to do is moan all the while, then find another forum to do it on - and if your VM service is really that bad, terminate it and mover to another provider.
:clap: :clap:
KingDaveRa
02-01-2010, 18:03
So what's the history of this Motorola stuff? I notice it mentioned as BSRs instead of UBRs. I thought they were the same? There's more than a couple of people on the newsgroups with the same issue.
It looks like one of those creeping issues that'll slowly get worse over time.
TBH, Im sick of seeing both Welshchris and chris26engwales continually moaning on this forum, both about their service and VM in general. The staff here have bent over backwards to help you on numerous occasions, and yet all you do is attack them some more. This will not continue in 2010, because Im sick of reading it and will personally terminate your CF accounts if you continue - this ceased being a hell and moan site a long time ago, its a help site and clearly neither of you seems to want to be helped.
If all you want to do is moan all the while, then find another forum to do it on - and if your VM service is really that bad, terminate it and mover to another provider.
Well said.
Welshchris
02-01-2010, 21:01
So what's the history of this Motorola stuff? I notice it mentioned as BSRs instead of UBRs. I thought they were the same? There's more than a couple of people on the newsgroups with the same issue.
It looks like one of those creeping issues that'll slowly get worse over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Broadband_Router
http://www.motorola.com/Business/US-EN/Business+Product+and+Services/Cable+Broadband/CMTS+EDGE+Routers/BSR+64000_US-EN
Some info that could help explain there.
The UBRs that Virgin use are mainly supplied by Cisco.
KingDaveRa
02-01-2010, 22:03
So it is the same thing then.
But what's this actual issue? The logs on my modem suggest it's a timing issue. Maybe the Motorola UBRs can't tell time...
Don't get sucked in, Dave. ;)
KingDaveRa
02-01-2010, 22:15
I'm not! I'm not!
Just curious, is all :p
I'm not! I'm not!
Just curious, is all :p
You live in Aylesbury and he lives in Swansea so very , very , very unlikely that you have the same fault.;)
KingDaveRa
02-01-2010, 23:14
Well I was originally told it by VM themselves:
news://news.virginmedia.com:119/kF2%m.20596$Ym4.12739@text.news.virginmedia.com
Odd how this issue has just suddenly occurred though. It was all working fine until a few weeks back, and it just fell over. Ever since it can't keep sync for more than an hour.
darren.b
02-01-2010, 23:16
Well after 19 days of uptime,it went AOT.
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