View Full Version : Oversubscription?
RyuKokoro
14-10-2009, 23:45
Hi,
I've been having really slow speeds on my Virgin Media 10mbps broadband since about the beginning of September. I have a suspicion of what the cause of this is but I'll go into that later.
I have a standard ethernet cable modem and a Belkin G router. Speed tests done after about 5pm on any given weekday and all day weekends return no more than 1.5mbps (usually around 1mbps or less); this is the case whether the circuit is -Cable Modem > Router > Computer- or just -Cable Modem >RJ45> Computer-. I've done dozens of tests with and without the router in the circuit and the difference between the results is negligible. Results are the same, whichever testing site I use.
The tests have been carried out on a dual boot WinXP/Linux Ubuntu PC and on an iMac running OS X 10.5 so I know the computers are not contributing to the issue.
I've checked all the modem stats against the info in the stickied topic and they are all well within tolerance. I should probably mention that there is a 15db attenuator in the back of the modem which the coaxial cable is screwed into.
What I really want to know, if there are any VM staff amongst you, is this: as these slow speeds are occurring during peak hours, is this an issue with oversubscription in the area? I live in Fallowfield in Manchester and we get a huge influx of students every september. If it is due to this, it's hard to believe (in some ways) that VM haven't already rectified this issue by increasing capacity in the area. Do VM have any plans for fixing this in the near future? One of my colleagues at work (I work in Tech Support for a BT Network ADSL supplier so I'm ok with that but when it comes to Cable Internet, I'm useless) lives not far from me and is on the same exchange as I would be on were I to have a BT line; he gets 18mbps from BE. I don't want to have to go through the rigmarole of getting a BT line and getting BE's service on the line but less than 20% of 10mbps is not acceptable. I know it's "up to" but I would be happy with 4-5mbps.
I know it's been a bit long winded but I'd appreciate any insight/info on this issue. I'd also like to hear from anyone in the M14 postcode area who is having the same problem.
Thanks in advance.
broadbandking
15-10-2009, 09:03
PM me your postcode
AbyssUnderground
15-10-2009, 09:33
Just to confirm its safe to send broadbandking your postcode, as he works for VM and can find out some information for you.
Sir John Luke
15-10-2009, 09:35
Not being funny, but I'd suggest new members wait for a CF team member to confirm someone works for VM.
AbyssUnderground
15-10-2009, 09:41
Perhaps, but when you consider how long I've been registered, it would be difficult to get away with lying about such things ;) :) Plus I'd never do such a thing.
webcrawler2050
15-10-2009, 09:42
BenMcr will be able to confirm
It's only a postcode. Thats what you get for being helpfull.
I can confirm that broadbandking is registered as a VM staff member
Just to say my experience is exactly the same - only I am in the G3 area of Glasgow.
Was fine till about a month ago - then down to sub 1mb every evening and weekend - actualy got it put up to 20mb(I was on 10mb) - just as bad.
Finally got an engineer yesterday - new modem and some tweaks at box in the street - was getting 10-15mb so thought it would be ok, by 11pm I was averaging 230k down - strangely up is always a solid 760.
I will try and get an engineer out again , but I have a strong suspicion something is well wrong further upstream.
RyuKokoro
15-10-2009, 18:28
Okay, I'll PM you the postcode. I forgot to mention that I have already had a Technician out. He went through a lot of checks and eventually decided that the 15db attenuator will do the job to stabilise the connection (was originally an intermittent sync issue) and since then, I've been able to sync up fine.
Guys, if you have confirmation of oversubscription by VM, could you post in the thread http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12/33656079-oversubscribed-ubrs.html so that others can be made aware. Thanks.
fuzzface
15-10-2009, 20:52
I'm just down the road from you in Chorlton and I'm having exactly the same issues. I've tried pretty much everything you have to make sure it's not a problem 'my end'. Several calls to support have been a waste of time. I noticed that the problems started about the same time as you did too. I haven't got anywhere near 10Mbps speeds since that time.
The only conclusion I can come to myself is oversubscription. I fully appreciate that it's sold as 'up to 10mbps' but I'm barely getting 0.5mbps the vast majority of the time which is a bit much to swallow on that premise. Most of the things I wanted to use this connection for are pretty much useless at the moment (TV on demand / youtube etc.) and a 10 Meg account should at least be able to run these ok surely?
Mines 10 meg & all day I usually get around 9.80meg
In the evening it plummets down to less than 5, right now it's wavering between 3.2 & 5meg, can't view anything with video without pauses.
Never had this problem till recently, I am connected to the Bromsgrove /wolverhampton system, seems offering 50meg to subscribers is robbing the lower bandwidths :mad:
RyuKokoro
15-10-2009, 22:13
The thing with my issue is that the connection itself is very high quality; pings are always below 50ms and every test I do on pingtest.net comes back without packet loss. The problem is with the bandwidth/speed itself; I have a PS3 and Rock Band/Guitar Hero games and DLing additional content for them takes ages. On a 10mbps connection, a typical 30MB song should take let's say half a minute (30 megabytes x 8 = 240 megabits / 10 = 24 seconds) and should take less than a minute even at 5mbps. At present, I'm lucky if I get it in 10 minutes which if you work it out, is about 0.5mbps. That's completely unacceptable; "upto" or no "upto" you should still provide paying customers with a decent service. I would be happy with 3.5mbps + in the evenings as I accept that it's busier then. But hey, what ya gonna do?
broadbandking
15-10-2009, 22:21
Okay, I'll PM you the postcode. I forgot to mention that I have already had a Technician out. He went through a lot of checks and eventually decided that the 15db attenuator will do the job to stabilise the connection (was originally an intermittent sync issue) and since then, I've been able to sync up fine.
I will PM you with a update in the morning when I get to work.
---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------
Mines 10 meg & all day I usually get around 9.80meg
In the evening it plummets down to less than 5, right now it's wavering between 3.2 & 5meg, can't view anything with video without pauses.
Never had this problem till recently, I am connected to the Bromsgrove /wolverhampton system, seems offering 50meg to subscribers is robbing the lower bandwidths :mad:
As broadbandings has said I will say this 50Mb doesn't effect the lower tiers as it uses DOCSIS 3.0 NOT DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 which the other tiers use, it can be many issues, have you rung in yet to get them to check?
RyuKokoro
15-10-2009, 22:29
Broadbandking, are the different tiers separated from each other? For example, if, because this is a student heavy area, all the student had subscribed to 10mbps as it is the cheapest and the 20mbps tier had relatively less connections on it, would upgrading help at all?
broadbandking
15-10-2009, 22:35
Depends as you may still use the DOCSIS 1.0 network if you upgrade to 20Mb, I would say upgrading to 50Mb might be ok as you would be on the DOCSIS 3.0, but you could face the same issues as you are living in a high student area, I will check the usage in your area tbh I would say its going to be the wait game for you but let me check first.
.
---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:18 ----------
As broadbandings has said I will say this 50Mb doesn't effect the lower tiers as it uses DOCSIS 3.0 NOT DOCSIS 1.0/1.1 which the other tiers use, it can be many issues, have you rung in yet to get them to check?
I did ring but got a pointless reply such as have I rebooted my modem & all that stuff. If I get fairly consistent high speed all day it's obviously not my equipment I would have thought.
here's my speed test right now, come tonight it will be less than 4.
I should point out that I am a silver surfer & rarely download anything that might get me capped
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/10/48.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Hi, Broadbandking - can I ask - is there anyway for you to say if 50mb in the G3 area of Glasgow is likely to be ok ?
I'd be happy to move up if I thought it would solve my problems. Just as 10 and 20mb don't get me much above 1.5 mb most of the time you'll understand my reluctance to fork over the extra for 50.
I did ask the engineer when he was out on Wed how 50mb was going and he said it seemed ok - but, he may have been unwilling to say otherwise (offiical job hat on and all that) - as im right next to Glasgow Uni and this is student central I can well belive contention problems .... just not much help to me on my, what feels like dodgy dial up connection.
Have an engineer coming out again tomorrow (Sat) morning so will report back how things go.
RyuKokoro
16-10-2009, 14:32
Thanks, broadbandking (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/members/54406.html), it's much appreciated. I've had to deal with a few slow speed issues at work today myself and I've just been like "yeah, know how you feel!"
broadbandking
16-10-2009, 19:23
Hi, Broadbandking - can I ask - is there anyway for you to say if 50mb in the G3 area of Glasgow is likely to be ok ?
I'd be happy to move up if I thought it would solve my problems. Just as 10 and 20mb don't get me much above 1.5 mb most of the time you'll understand my reluctance to fork over the extra for 50.
I did ask the engineer when he was out on Wed how 50mb was going and he said it seemed ok - but, he may have been unwilling to say otherwise (offiical job hat on and all that) - as im right next to Glasgow Uni and this is student central I can well belive contention problems .... just not much help to me on my, what feels like dodgy dial up connection.
Have an engineer coming out again tomorrow (Sat) morning so will report back how things go.
They best thing I can advise is try it and then if its crap then downgrade again as you will have a right to cancel.
Just had the engineers out - ubrs is oversubscribed 99% utilisation - nothing they can do.
Has been escalated, but they weren't holding out much hope of it being fixed anytime soon - person they phoned at the ubrs end of things jokingy advised them to tell me to get another provider.
Some folk would be jumping, but I'm actually glad to at least know the problem - on hold to retentions now , see if i can cut a deal for reduced price or 50mb or something :confused:
RyuKokoro
17-10-2009, 17:02
I wouldn't get your hopes up, Lobey. I've been told that VM won't budge on price. ;) There's been a VM van round here a few times recently and it's always parked at the nearest connection cabinet so they may be working on the issue. Either that or packing more subscribers on to the network. I'm leaning towards the former though as my service seems to have improved somewhat (3-4mbps last night and this afternoon) so fingers crossed!
I have exactly the same issue with speed here in Nuneaton (CV11 6FU) ever since I was upgraded to 10Meg, I am getting speeds less than 2 Meg. In fact when I was on 2 Meg, it was consistently 1.9+
Called a couple of weeks ago and went through all the standard diagnostics to no event; was told an engineer would be called but I'm still waiting!
I have been trying to call VM again today but all I have been getting all day is "Sorry, we are too busy" followed by NU tone!
Come back 2 Meg!
Post 17 shows my daytime speed but look at my evening speed on my 10 meg
says it all really :mad:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/10/43.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
This is just dire, going to try complaining again:mad:
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2009/10/41.png (http://www.speedtest.net)
Well I'm going to have 50Mb fitted - £39 a month- everyone swears blind it will be on diff UBRS, so we will see.
As I can't get time of work and will be away first week in Nov, it should go in on Sat 14th so will report back then how it turns out.
Oh and meanwhile I've had my current bill dropped to £34 a month so ... meh
Looks like I have 2 weeks of mainly 1mb and below service... :(
Just had the engineers out - ubrs is oversubscribed 99% utilisation - nothing they can do.
Lobey, it seems to be VM policy to no longer address oversubscription and has been for at least a year now. Their new way of addressing the problem is to wait until people get so sick and tired of dire speeds that they upgrade to 50mb. It's appalling but they are getting away with it and don't seem to give a damn.
Just change isps. My speed is crap at certain points of day and the evening and then it jumps back to full speed. I'd say that they were traffic shaping without a doubt. I have 10 megs and it drops to under at the fastest during the day. I have emailed, called etc and what do they say ? Blah Blah Blah its other users on the system. I gave up but i will not be conned into 50megs by them, because after a while 50 megs will suffer the same problem. And to be honest.. lol... How many servers in the UK have a 100 meg line and actually put that out..
Problem is that changing provider would mean getting a BT line in and I can't stand that particular company - doesn't matter who your ADSL is off it's through a BT line :(
And when it isn't being oversubscribed cable is so far above ADSL it isn't funny - if Virgin had some real competition then we might see more action, till then i'll see what I can coax out of them .. squeaky wheel gets the oil and all that.
nomadking
18-10-2009, 22:21
I have exactly the same issue with speed here in Nuneaton (CV11 6FU) ever since I was upgraded to 10Meg, I am getting speeds less than 2 Meg. In fact when I was on 2 Meg, it was consistently 1.9+
Called a couple of weeks ago and went through all the standard diagnostics to no event; was told an engineer would be called but I'm still waiting!
I have been trying to call VM again today but all I have been getting all day is "Sorry, we are too busy" followed by NU tone!
Come back 2 Meg!
Had a similar problem, everything looks ok but isn't. Was told UBR was under-subscribed (699 out of a capacity of 1200). CS suggested that as my modem was old(6yrs) it would be replaced. It arrived two days later(last Thursday). Since then for 98+% of the time I get the full 10Mb. My SNR went from 26dB to 41dB, just with a change of modem.
bomber_g
19-10-2009, 09:30
Lobey, it seems to be VM policy to no longer address oversubscription and has been for at least a year now. Their new way of addressing the problem is to wait until people get so sick and tired of dire speeds that they upgrade to 50mb. It's appalling but they are getting away with it and don't seem to give a damn.
This is wrong =) VM are constantly monitoring the amount of traffic of their UBR's and are able to easily spot the ones that need to be re-segged.
the problem is they need to plan IP scopes that are going to go on each new router that is put in place, buy the kit, install it, configure it (which means working out what frequency ranges are going to go on each upstream so that there are no conflicts) and test it before putting live customers over on it. This is not a simple process and takes a lot of planning.
As far as I know there is a re-seg happening pretty much all the time...
broadbandking
19-10-2009, 17:57
True there is alot of planning but when the 50Mb was released it should have lifted the strain off the UBR's but with the 2-10Mb upgrade that put the strain back on, the main thing people have to remember UBR's will always need to be upgraded just means Virgin will have to keep doing this and will never be able to keep on top of this due to time.
Having eventually got through to VM faults, I was told that everyone on my connection was having the same problems and there was no fix date. She said the cable was "overtransmitted" I think which I took to mean overloaded!
I did get £10 off after complaining last month though.
Just had a phone call from VM re my complaint of dire speed in the evenings & it's more or less take it or leave it, the bloke said it's down to the huge number of new subscribers & I should expect it to be slow in the evenings & there was nothing they could do to fix it at this time. There's no point in ranting at the VM bloke who is only saying what he's been told to say, he did point out that the 2 -10 upgrade was on a different pipe or port to my 4-10 meg upgrade was, strangely enough he didn't try & get me to upgrade either :dozey:
RyuKokoro
23-10-2009, 20:38
I don't know if it's because it's Reading Week and a lot of the student have gone home to mummy and daddy or what but my speed is up tonight:
http://www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk/results.php?t=1256331450&v=8227418
Fingers crossed that it stays that way!
Just as an update - after contacting Virgins CEO and appraising him of my problems, I am pleased to say the UBRS for my area was re-balanced and since midweek everything has been flying. Still going to the 50mb in November as I'm sure it will be ok now.
I should note that I found all the technical staff I contacted to be pleasant and trying to be helpful, but, it's very hard to get past the first line phone support folk, who on the whole don't have the expertise or clout to get the more technical things sorted out if it's a problem at Virgins end.
Still this noisy wheel got oiled, and to anyone else with similar problems I would advise letting those higher up (politely) know of your difficulties.
:cool:
This is wrong =) VM are constantly monitoring the amount of traffic of their UBR's and are able to easily spot the ones that need to be re-segged.
the problem is they need to plan IP scopes that are going to go on each new router that is put in place, buy the kit, install it, configure it (which means working out what frequency ranges are going to go on each upstream so that there are no conflicts) and test it before putting live customers over on it. This is not a simple process and takes a lot of planning.
As far as I know there is a re-seg happening pretty much all the time...
VM have been aware that BASF3 is oversubscribed to the point of being unusable for over a year. This level of oversubscription and refusal to split a node is not uncommon. I have been personally told by the CEOs office that they are refusing to split BASF3. So yes, they can easily spot oversubscribed nodes, but no, they do not always resegment them.
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