Can you use a driveway to access a grass verge?

[sianlauren]

Does anyone know if a person has the right to stop you using their driveway which leads from the road to park on a grass verge next to their driveway? My mother is 81 years old and some of my family have to park outside her house to pick her up because she cannot walk very far. Her neighbour has started shouting that no one is allowed access in a car on his driveway except him? He does not have a driveway on his property he drives over the pavement to the grass on his property.

[Stuart]

If he doesn't have a driveway, how can he stop people blocking it? Unless you live on a private road, or road with a permit system, he can't stop people parking outside your mum's house.

He certainly isn't supposed to be driving over the pavement.

[Peter_]

If he has not paid the council to lower the pavement and lay a driveway to his property then he has no claim on the area and the council can order him not to drive across the pavement to his property.

His rights end at the property boundary and as long as your vehicles are taxed and insured the is nothing he can actually do in law.

[Stuart]

Sorry, welcome to the forum..

[Chris]

Does anyone know if a person has the right to stop you using their driveway which leads from the road to park on a grass verge next to their driveway? My mother is 81 years old and some of my family have to park outside her house to pick her up because she cannot walk very far. Her neighbour has started shouting that no one is allowed access in a car on his driveway except him? He does not have a driveway on his property he drives over the pavement to the grass on his property.

I'm not entirely clear on what the situation is here. Are your family driving onto your neighbour's property, i.e. through his garden gate or past his wall?

I think you're using the word 'driveway' to mean two different things in the same sentence which is making it confusing. Depending on what you mean, and what your family is actually doing, then the neighbour might be within his rights to get cross at you. On the other hand he may not. More details please!

[superbiatch]

Some people are such AH's! Welcome aboard btw :welcome:

I do wonder sometimes if some people really haven't got a life when they let things like this bother them! Obviously your mother is the one with a problem as she needs access, her neighbour I'm afraid sounds like an infuriating pain and he has no right to do it. Contact the council or better still can you get a disabled space outside your mums to wind him up :D

[Kymmy]

Welcome to the forum, perhaps if you use google earth or similar to make us a little map (remove identifying features if you wish to keep your location hidden) this might help us visualize the problem more easier as to best give our opinions

[Chris]

Welcome to the forum, perhaps if you use google earth or similar to make us a little map (remove identifying features if you wish to keep your location hidden) this might help us visualize the problem more easier as to best give our opinions

Indeed - it's not fair to start pre-judging the neighbour here. If, say, there is no boundary wall between the two houses and the family are driving over part of the neighbour's property to get onto the 81-year-old mother's drive, then the neighbour does have grounds to be a bit miffed, especially if he hasn't been consulted.

We really need a fuller explanation of exactly what is meant by 'driveway' and where people are driving their cars. A screenshot of an aerial photo from Google maps or Google Earth would be useful.

[superbiatch]

Indeed - it's not fair to start pre-judging the neighbour here. If, say, there is no boundary wall between the two houses and the family are driving over part of the neighbour's property to get onto the 81-year-old mother's drive, then the neighbour does have grounds to be a bit miffed, especially if he hasn't been consulted.

We really need a fuller explanation of exactly what is meant by 'driveway' and where people are driving their cars. A screenshot of an aerial photo from Google maps or Google Earth would be useful.

OK yes, I bit far too early. Probably is best to get the full details.

[sianlauren]

Thank you for your prompt replies.
This is a main road which has a grass verge along it, then you have pavement in front of the row of houses. Some people have the kerb lowered with a concrete drive to come off the road which normally gives access to a driveway on their own property. His is only the access off the road onto a grass verge, he has no driveway on his property thats why he parks on the grass in front of his house driving over the pavement. My mother has the grass verge in front of her property and so did he until he paid the council to lower the kerb with a concrete drive on the grass verge in front of his house.

[Graham M]

Even with a dropped kerb doesn't the thoroughfare still remain council property?

[southwell]

AFAIK the only thing you can't do is block the drop kerb, i suggest you contact your council for clarification.

[Angua]

IIRC there should be a highway boundary and with newer properties this will often have a clear marker. In most cases where there is a fenced off frontage to the property the responsibility belongs to the householder up to and including the fence (or edge next to the pavement where there is no fence but where a fence could legally be put). Thereafter the pavement and any verge is the responsibility of the highways authority even if there is a dropped kerb as part of the access to their house will cross the pavement.

If anyone is parking on the grass verge, the highways could ask them to cease immediately. In reality this is unlikely provided the kerbs are not being damaged. The highways authority may not have been aware that the miserable neighbour was seeking a dropped kerb merely to park on the verge and not within his own curtilage.

[southwell]

Sorry to barge in a bit. I am looking to do this to my house too, utilising the side of the house as parking, what kind of costs would i be looking at? Around 20 houses have dropped kerbs in parking zones on my street, which gives me some leverage to request it.

Thanks

[rogerdraig]

bit lost on this one but here goes lol

if your just using the lowered kerb to access the verge with out driving on his property and are not blocking ( even for a short time ) his access on and off his property then as long as you can show it was to enable the disabled person ( helps if they have a blue badge ) ten there is little he can do

however if you are driving on his property or blocking him from leaving or entering then he does have a right ( though its being rather mean spirited imho ) to call the police and have you ticketed for obstruction hopefully though you would get a sensible officer who would just ask you to move

or ask you to move the car if you are on his property

[haydnwalker]

Southwell: AFAIK it depends on your local council... Our local council charge upwards of £700 to put a dropped kerb on the pavement.

sianlauren: It is technically illegal to park on a pavement or grass verge, though its one of those not usually enforced laws. If the neighbour has a dropped kerb but no driveway, he has no claim to stake.

I think requesting from the council as much information (and giving them information on your mothers disability (they may let you have a disabled space put there but probably at your own cost)

[Angua]

Thank you for your prompt replies.
This is a main road which has a grass verge along it, then you have pavement in front of the row of houses. Some people have the kerb lowered with a concrete drive to come off the road which normally gives access to a driveway on their own property. His is only the access off the road onto a grass verge, he has no driveway on his property thats why he parks on the grass in front of his house driving over the pavement. My mother has the grass verge in front of her property and so did he until he paid the council to lower the kerb with a concrete drive on the grass verge in front of his house.

Reading this again looks like he has a grassed area directly in front of his house which he parks on which if it is within his own curtilage is fine. However if you have what could be a double verge with Road, verge, path, verge then curtilage he could technically be parking illegally and would have even less grounds for complaint.

Whichever way he looks at it though, the dropped kerb he caused to be put in does not give him rights over the highways responsibility.

[Saaf_laandon_mo]

We paidthe council to drop our kerb because we were putting in a drive way. The kerb was dropped a month or so before the driveway was put in. We were told by the council that until the driveway was put in the dropped kerb would not in itself prevent others parking it. The only time people can't park is if they were blocking access to the driveway. In other wrods a dropped kerb does not guarantee a parking space.

I think the OP is saying his neighbour dropped the kerb, then there is a grass strip, then pavement, then a front garden and then the house. If he has not converted his front garden into a driveway then I don't think he has an argument against people parking across the dropped kerb. In this case the OP is not even parking the car, he is simply driving onto the pavement/grass verge using the dropped kerb. In this case I dont think his neighbour can enforce anything legally. I personally think that the OP could park his car on the grass verge infront of the dropped kerb. I doubt that sections of the verge are allocated to particular houses (for example, I assume they are mowed by the council).

I'd personally tell the neighbour to speak to the council and until he can prove to me he has a legal case he can go to hell.

[rogerdraig]

dropped kerb does mean no parking even with out a drive see

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/ukpga_20040018_en_9#pt6-pb3-l1g86 part 6 no. 86

and blocking access is always an offence see

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1980/cukpga_19800066_en_25 section 137

however parking on the pavement or verge ( except london ) that does not obstruct free passage is not illegal :) but be sure that pedestrians ( think of someone with double buggy ;) ) can pass on the pavement and cars can pass you or else section 137 applies :)

[Nidge]

Reading this again looks like he has a grassed area directly in front of his house which he parks on which if it is within his own curtilage is fine. However if you have what could be a double verge with Road, verge, path, verge then curtilage he could technically be parking illegally and would have even less grounds for complaint.

Whichever way he looks at it though, the dropped kerb he caused to be put in does not give him rights over the highways responsibility.



Your wrong I'm afraid, I had the same trouble some years ago with a neighbour who thought the grass verge outside his house was his, he planted flowers, he mowed it he even had a quote to have it concreted over, he even went to the extreme of putting bollards outside so no one could park there, that was until the Council got involved, they came and ripped his plants up and started cutting it themselves. The neighbour threatened to take them to court until the council said that it was owned by the County Council and he should not be parking on the grass because he was making a mess of it and if anyone slipped on it they would be making a claim against the householder.

I hope that clears it all up.

[SMG]

All you need to do is give the local council planning dpt a ring & ask for an appointment to view the plans of both houses, & any relevant access points from the road.

Go & speak to them, & explain what the problem is.

[Angua]

Your wrong I'm afraid, I had the same trouble some years ago with a neighbour who thought the grass verge outside his house was his, he planted flowers, he mowed it he even had a quote to have it concreted over, he even went to the extreme of putting bollards outside so no one could park there, that was until the Council got involved, they came and ripped his plants up and started cutting it themselves. The neighbour threatened to take them to court until the council said that it was owned by the County Council and he should not be parking on the grass because he was making a mess of it and if anyone slipped on it they would be making a claim against the householder.

I hope that clears it all up.

You have reinforced what I said :dozey: so I was not wrong!
Originally Posted by Angua http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/33651785-can-you-use-driveway-access-grass-post-34820365.html#post34820365)
Reading this again looks like he has a grassed area directly in front of his house which he parks on which if it is within his own curtilage is fine. However if you have what could be a double verge with Road, verge, path, verge then curtilage he could technically be parking illegallyand would have even less grounds for complaint.

Whichever way he looks at it though, the dropped kerb he caused to be put in does not give him rights over the highways responsibility.

Curtilage is the area your property stands on and the owner is responsible for. We have an area at the front of our house which is now grassed that has always been within our curtilage. Our previous house was on a road with a double verge which the highways was responsible for.

[sianlauren]

Thank you for your reply. it does not go anywhere near his property, what he is saying is that he owns the dropdown in front of his house on the grass verge leading from a main road. I have since found out that he does not, even though he paid for it to be put there. The Highways own all the land on that main road, you only pay for the access to your property. I truly believe he is a very sad person with nothing better to do.

[Chris]

You're absolutely right, just because he paid for the kerb to be lowered does not mean he owns it.

The question now is, why is he complaining at your family and what are you going to do about it? You could ignore him of course but that doesn't solve the problem. Is there some underlying issue that could be addressed? Did your mum have a run-in with him in years gone by? Are local kids making his life generally miserable, but he feels unable to tackle them so is going for a perceived softer target (i.e. you).

There may well be nothing you can do about this. Some people are simply awful to live next to. But it might be worth at least thinking about it.

[sianlauren]

Hello Chris
Yes you are right there was something that happened about 18 years ago involving my daughter 5 and his daughter 4, involving nail polish which is far too ridiculous to mentioned. After telling him that he and his wife were sad individuals we decided to ignore them. Every so often he just does something out of the blue as if to start an argument? I really think life is so short why spend your time making it unhappy, it is best to just ignore him. He seems to have calmed down (maybe I am speaking too soon)and has stopped shouting obscenities. I think he went to the council and no doubt they told him he has no right to stop anyone using it. His daughter actually ran in front of my brother's car screaming with her hands out trying to stop him using the dropdown kerb - unbelievable?